Pilot error: Bad landing - The Flying Reporter still gets it wrong - full ATC
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- Опубліковано 10 січ 2019
- One thing I'm known for, is sharing my errors. I still make them, nearly 400 hours in. Today, it's a bad landing. I got distracted by a bird on the runway, and didn't fix my gaze to the end of the runway, meaning I landed hard and flat.
In this flight, I take my son to Le Touquet during the summer of 2018. The flight also includes pilot distraction and smoke in the cockpit, was this a warning that Oscar Romeo's engine was about to give up?
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I love that Berties response to the heavy handing in France was: "Ooh La La" He's a comedian
Jon, I think if foresight made us sweat as much as hindsight we'd never do anything! Loved Master Bertie's assessment of you lumpy landing, "that's ok, just don't do it again!" :)
@Jayden Archer instablaster :)
@Jayden Archer happy to help xD
Grass roots... I enjoy your videos and your honesty. You help me and hopefully other similar PPL/CPL pilots to share experiences!
Hi Jon, another great video. Your videos are getting better and better. I've been binge watching all of your past videos. Really appreciate your videos especially the full RT. I'm doing my PPL training at EGML, about to embark on my first solo cross country at the next weather permitting window. My biggest worry is my RT skills as I haven't had to do much of it a Damyns. I'm hoping what I've learnt from your videos will help me. Look forward to more videos in 2019
"Have you taken up stunt flying?!" Loved this quote from Bertie! Great video Jon as usual, and good to hear the repair work is progressing.
Thank you.
Fascinating video Jon. You gave the engine a thorough run up check so did everything you could to identify any further problems. Then checked again in the air before going ahead and coasting out, so to my mind your final decision to cross the water was completely justified. It made for great viewing too with excellent visual and audio content. Overall, you made another great video, very enjoyable and entertaining. Thank you for posting
Thanks Kevin.
Hi Jon. New to your channel, and I absolutely love it! Brilliant watching your adventures with your friends and family. If Bertie doesn’t break into the aviation industry when he’s older, we’ll, I’ll be amazed. Totally addicted to your videos. Really looking forward to the next one. Cheers.
Thanks Matt. Glad you're enjoying the films.
Hello and thank you another good video. Your honesty, airmanship and decision making is always a pleasure to watch.
A consideration worth keeping in mind operating from a grass airfield is, during the hot summer months, grass clippings can collect in the wheel spats. During long taxi as brake temperatures increase (quite quickly) the grass can begin to smoulder and occasionally catch light. The smell in noticeable from the cockpit. I thought it worth a mention for future fault diagnosis. Keep up the good work and fly safe.
Good tip, thanks.
Excellent, only just got round to watching this.
Bertie: ‘just don’t do it again’... reminds me of my circuit PPL days 😂 well documented, can’t wait to start a channel soon
Glad no issues getting home. From what I remember of the diagnosis on that engine, things were sort of 'coming to a head'. Be good to get things all back together (apart from the bill!) - look fwd to new flights later on. :)
Thanks for sharing,a good pilot is always learning so it's great to hear stories like yours. I see your son likes Beano, an old fav of mine when I was kid and my youngest likes Beano too, cheers from Aussie.
Thanks Paul.
Jon, as real and honest as always. Great flight to watch thru especially as just having 4 on the trot lost to weather! Foresight and hindsight I guess if you knew then what you know now this flight would not have happened. Maybe OR was trying to tell you something .........but then none of us have a crystal ball, it is good to know all is going well with the engine. When you get her back will you have a spell of restricted flying?
Bertie well he is just a star!!!
he's my world Mike.
Another great video, Jon. I think most of us would have continued in that situation too, the immediate issue having cleared, having redundancy on the mags and everything else in the green. You are understandably doubting your decision to continue, but only with the benefit of hindsight. Great news that you should be airborne again in February. Lets hope the weather co-operates!
Thanks Paul.
Bertie... "Ooo la la" . Nicely said! Good to see Bertie's graduated to the front seat, Jon'.
Thanks Jon.
Some really great POVs, thanks for sharing !!!
Thanks for watching.
Concentrate on the end of the runway. Well I never! I learn something new with every one of your videos. ✔👍
Jon, I love your videos.
I think the reason that you landed flat was precisely because you're looking at the far end of the runway. Generally the two errors are looking straight down, which scares the pilot resulting in flaring high and fixating on the end of the runway which means you've got minimal angular reference which can result in you landing flat or being unable to judge your height. Another factor maybe the length of runway which again means that looking at the end will now be different for every runway. The FAA has an excellent description in FAA-H-8083-3B on page 8-5. I generally find that looking around 300-600ft in front of the aeroplane gives me good depth perception but even with 1000+ hrs I still wonder sometimes how my landing gear survives. I also have two different techniques depending on the aeroplane. In my Piper Arrow IV I'll generally get the aeroplane briefly stabilized in ground effect and then relax a tiny bit of pressure for a gentle sink where I fly it onto the runway. For a Cessna 206 I'll establish the aeroplane in ground effect and then keep the cowl on the far end of the runway. As the speed bleeds off the mains will settle on as the aeroplane stalls (this visualization came from the Cessna factory instructors in Witchita where I friend of mine collected the aeroplane originally)
If you're ever in Seattle, drop me a line. Lots of amazing scenery to be seen around here in a light aeroplane.
You are a good and capable pilot. I have over 2000 hours and it can happen to anyone.
I remember going there from Southend many years ago. It was then I found out about the fuel duty claw back and the fact you buy the duty free direct from the bonded store before you leave thus cutting out the middle man never had such cheap whisky. I listened vary carefully to the engine while crossing the channel! Also remember a narrow gauge railway ran across the apron.
I see Bertie has borrowed your latest comic again Jon ! Great video, look forward to them as always!
Thanks Steve.
Priceless comments from Bertie! Another very instructive video, demonstrating - if my observation is accurate - tension in the downwind and base phases of the circuit at LFAT where, presumably you were looking for the other traffic, with a hint of 'agitato' body movement. And I know exactly what you mean about hyper-sensitivity to unusual engine noise, especially over, or when about to, cross water. I like to think I'd have thrown the return flight, but it's easy to offer that from the security of a desk on a January evening. Also very interesting to hear your diagnosis of the flat landing: that's given me something to think about too. As ever, thanks for sharing your flying experiences & I'm glad Oscar Romeo's engine is now in the capable hands of the engineers.
Hi Jon another great video.Regards your trouble there i think you did everything right by doing another run up and also well communicated with ATC.Yes definitely sobering to think about what could have happened and with the discovery of the problems with the engine hindsight is a wonderful thing.
However you made it back safely across so that vindicated your decision making and actions.
Good to hear all going good with the overhaul.
A little update from me after returning from the US studying the FAA dispatcher course means i am firmly on the job hunt.I recently tested out for ATC myself at Staverton and all seems to have gone ok.
Next will hopefully be the cirrus type rating with Phillippe Polan.
Thanks Sean. Sounds like you have a lot going on! Philippe is a great instructor.
Definitely Jon,so glad i left the stiff corporate world of BA last June and not looked back since. So much more i wanted to do with my licence & career but no support from them & the pay was not enough for me to fly regularly.It became just a job with no fun.
P.S. m
I read your FB post about the loss of your mate in the accident in Spain so my condolences & there we all go but for lady luck.
Excellent video, amazed how your little one is so chilled in the plane! Hope will one day bump into you at Redhill, will be a pleasure to shake your hand, I've watched a lot of your videos, very very useful for PPL students :)
Do come and say hi if you see me there.
Thank you for another wonderful video.
P.S This is the only channel I've set notifications for
Thanks! Appreciate the follow.
Excellent video as usual Jon. Didn't realise you had 'taken up stunt flying' So funny.
He's my world.
The Flying Reporter .... my daughter is mine. We are very lucky being dads ( and flyers 😀).
Great video! I had something similar once and like you carried on after additional run ups. Think I would have taken up the offer of the fire inspection.....but that would be me looking for reassurance in my decision making 🤦🏻♂️
Thanks Thomas.
Hi John , another nice trip and well recorded and glad OR on the repair, as I’ve only ever done trial flights I am not familiar with the radio talk , I don’t know if you ever done an information video for the radio talk like the “ QnH, Squark etc, as I find that interesting as well and you have it so fluid and natural as your flight . jamie
Thanks for the suggestion Jay.
great video again Jon.
Thank you Paul.
I went on Tuesday Jon. You mention the extortionate cost of the taxi ride. For the first time we hired a bike. Just €12 for the whole afternoon! It was fun to go into town that way.
Great video as always thank you. JUST DONT DO IT AGAIN JON!............ Bless him. Don't beat yourself up over your landing. Any pilot who says they always lands perfectly is telling fibbies! I'm sure we have all done worse! Stu
The Beano - Essential reading for kids !! Thanks another great video...
Thanks John.
I really enjoyed the video such a great father son day out, personally I think I would have had the engine inspected before departure after the initial smell but that is just because I would be over cautious having my son as a passenger.
I think your son is great , I bet he likes going out with you God bless him.👍✈️🤓
I think I would have stayed the night in Le Touquet, or nearby, and had the plane looked at the next morning--you mentioned it was hot (both the engine and the locale). After all, you have precious cargo aboard, never take chances. After all, better to be safe than to be there.
Great Video Jon, loads of information as always, La Touquet looks great and good to know you can walk in. Good to watch how you handled a possible engine problem, I think I would have flown too based on instruments info. I bet you're looking forward to flying in O-R. Do you fly any other planes?
I have use of another PA28 at the moment, but don't fly an awful lot of other types at the moment.
Jon, sometimes especially in hot weather the plugs can sometimes foul. A slight misfire on run up is a common symptom. The normal procedure is to run up to 2000 rpm and lean the mixture off progressively until the misfire disappears. Many pilots in hotter clims lean the engine back as a matter of course at startup until run up and take off. I don’t although I always run the engine lean of peak once airborne.
Good video. I think the smell was probably a result of fumes from the backfire and I don't think you'd have discovered much had you scrubbed the flight. I'm glad you were able to get home on that flight.
Thanks Robert.
Thank you for showing all your experience from these videos. I have been learning a lot from your mistakes. One question: so technically you don’t need to go through customs when landing in a different EU country?
That was not a terrible landing, I’ve seen many that are worse. Yeah it was a little rough but Piper gear can take white a beating. Being in the US I’m amazed at the differences in the ATC from US to across the pond.
Also I can completely relate to your description of a mechanical discrepancy. I recently had a magneto fail on takeoff in my PA-28-180. There was almost no advance notice. There was a “clue” that day on run-up but it passed all run-up checks.
Fly safe and I hope the rebuild goes smoothly.
Thanks Brian. A Mag did eventually fail, a few flights later.
Just a question, why did you do a normal take off versus a soft field landing?
Really enjoyed this one! I guess it's a hard decision when you only plan a day trip, have a child with you and are in a foreign country. Cancelling your flight and having inspections etc could be a costly situation but flight safety always comes first so I understand it can be a tough decision.
Thanks Tom.
Great video, thanks!. I sometimes fly with my grandson, who I think is about a year younger than Bertie, I find it helps him to have something to do, Like help with the look out.
Probably would have taken them up on an inspection whilst on taxi; quite the confluence of red flags. But glad you and your son made a safe journey.
I wonder why you did not try to lean a moment during engine run up; that might have helped.
Landing could have been waaaaaay worse. Loved that Bertie came along. I do hope u have him on an aviation reading diet of Biggles, Algy, Ginger and of course his namesake to complement his practical experience accrued with u ha ha
Thanks Douglass.
Did you fly at a higher altitude on the return leg to maximise glide distance?
As high as I could, beneath controlled airspace i think.
@@TheFlyingReporter what does that allow you to get to? I'm not sure if it's hindsight or I genuinely would have decided to fly with those warnings, just with going over the vast water and with a child on board. Tough one - scary too! You made it is what matters.
FL 65 so apart from around 4 miles (2 minutes) mid channel, you should be able to glide to land, in theory.
I absolutely love seeing your decision-making process in some of these situations. I'm currently a glider pilot, hopefully starting PPL at some point soon so not in the best of positions to comment, but would an option to have been to fly locally at your cruise altitude for 20 minutes or so and closely monitor the engine indications before making a decision whether to continue the flight or not?
Another good suggestion Joshua. That would have been a good cautious approach.
The stunt flying part of the video - why perform such a steep turn? what was the background to it? love the videos
Hi. Simply traffic avoidance.
You should occupy the young man with tasks like looking for trafic or setting your idle frequencies :) may make his ride interesting! Or chrono the nav legs. Cheers!
Quick question that may have been answered already: why do you request basic services and not traffic information? I’ve never flown in the UK but in mainland Europe I always request traffic info. Thanks!
This is often asked, should put it on my Faqs. Some services (London Information) do not have radar. Others (Farnborough) are over stretched, and often can't offer a full radar service due to workload, on Cavok days, I choose to fly a basic service unless my workload demands traffic.
Hi Jon! i am a subscriber on your website and like to try and recreate your flights on my flight simulator. I look at your flight tracks but its hard to see exactly what way points/vrps you are flying to. Does sky demon create a written flight plan with all the way points, vrps and vors on? if you could share them along with the flight track it would help me a lot to recreate your flights for my own enjoyment!
thanks Jon and great video!
I'll consider this. Thanks Jack.
Great video as always, and as others are suggesting, hindsight is a wonderful thing! From my point of view, a non-pilot but enthusiast, would it have been wiser to fly upto Calais, cross over to Dover (only a 26 mile water crossing rather than a 35 mile ish crossing) and reduce the chances of having engine failure over water? I understand that it would mean more time flying, and more stress on the engine, but atleast there would be a greater chance of landing on land
Good thought Matthew, thanks.
That's highly debatable
Great video :)
Thanks Rasa.
If the engine passes the run-up, you are good to go. But a suspicious behavior warrants additional risk mitigation during flight, like closer monitoring or selecting a route with survival options. I have done the same a few times. It's actually better to manage a reasonable level of risk (this gives you skills that can really come handy at an unexpected emergency), than avoid risks altogether (you learn nothing, except to quit at the first sign of uncertainty). The time to connect the dots is on the ground, at home, with the regular maintenance people.
By the way, certified aircraft engines rarely quick completely. Rough running is bad (I have got a viciously shaking instrument panel once!), but it still develops some power, giving you options on how to survive or even land without damaging anything.
Thank you. I think there was more risk management I could have done.
Nice video :D
Does anyone know what the controller said to Alpha Victor at 16:33? It sounded like "je m'appelle" but the context didn't make sense. I hear controllers say this a lot in France and have always wondered.
i think controller is saying “I’ll call you” (as in ‘stand by’) after alpha victor had checked in with him as controller was expecting to have to clear OR to land. Could be wrong though.
@@p1pem thanks, even if you're wrong you're more right than me!
He said "Je vous rappelle" which means "I call you back"
@@MathieuSouphy thanks for the answer. I've been wondering about this for ages.
Looking forward to your first flight in feb!
Will you be reviewing your flights over water and your safety mitigation equipment given the recent Piper Malibu disappearance near Guernsey?
I would personally never fly single engine piston over that amount of water at this time of year at night. I probably wouldn't do it at night at all.
Seems like an regrettably sobering warning to GA pilots.
For Le Touquet I recommend renting bikes at the airport! It’s not expensive and really quick to get to the town. For these busy summer days you will have to call to reserve in advance though.
And by the way, how do you like not having to pass your whole message when flying in France under flight plan? I find ATC in the UK confusing ^^
It's refreshing when they know who you are and where you're going. One day we will have a coordinated system for VFR flight and IFR OCAS in the UK.....I hope!
We're human, can't ace it every time. LFAT can get extremely busy. I flew there last summer and there were about 4 or 5 other planes trying to join at the same time. I was told join right hand downwind for 31 then about 1 minute before reaching downwind I was changed to left hand downwind.. The controller was getting us to use right hand and left hand downwind then telling each plane when to turn base. The controllers there are pretty good. I dealt with it fine, but it definitely woke me up haha. It was always good to fly there, they make you feel quite welcome.
I avoid it on busy days. Good to hear that they can handle it though.
Iv learnt to trust my instinct, I know exactly what you mean, whenever I have discounted those instincts they have allways proved to be right, but as you say you talk yourself out of it. I have to say (and this is no criticism ) I dont think I would have taken off after the misfire confirmed, my instincts, as i say though i get it and thats easy for me to say from my arm chair. I think I am probably over cautious, however after seeing the new Diamond aircraft with there modern engines and realising these Lycoming and Continental engines are 1950’s technology, I kind of new that but it really hit home when I looked at a DA aircraft with their modern car like managed engines. Brought it home, why you have to monitor head temperatures , manage mixture etc etc.
Any landing you can walk away from ...is a good one. lol!
If you say so Simon.
Very interesting video. Landing wasn't too bad :-) I did a lot worse when learning, in fact I got the nickname Zebedee due to the bouncy landings. I took my PPL in 1988 at Blackpool in Cherokee's and then a Warrior. What would I have done. To be honest, I don't know. I did return from a run up at the holding point when I had a few miss-fires which turned out a false alarm. At least you are safe along with Bertie.
I might do the same trip over the weekend in my Warrior ii and see how I get on. However I wont be as worried over water as now all the flying I do is in the X-Plane simulator and engine failure wont happen as I have failures turned off ;-)
Thanks. 300 hours in, I shouldn't be landing like that!
I agree with young Bertie Nuggets and chips with plain salt only. No added flavourings.
This must be how the tailwheelers land: on all three at once.
I feel you on that
Should you have made that flight back to Redhill or not? - difficult to say, if you had not taken off and had the aircraft looked at by an engineer over in Le Touquet they would not have spotted the fault that eventually failed the engine, in fact at that stage just cursory inspection would not have shown anything so I hope you do not knock yourself up over it Jon, all you can do is learn from it I guess. Love the sites of Le Touquet by the way and a great video as always mate.
Thank you David.
Le touquet is on my list for a weekend away
It's a nice day out in the summer.
Excellent video (as usual.) I'm not a pilot, just an engineer. I'd say you think too much about stuff. (I'm guilty of that too). Hopefully, you did enjoy the flight though?
Thanks. Yes, it was an enjoyable day out.
Well, errors do happen, as long as you learn from them it is all good, just do not do them again;)
I laughed when you radioed tower to check for smoke as if they could see more than you sitting just behind the engine 😂😂👍
The prop wash could simply blow the smoke out of view.
I think you had a touch of get you there itus? Not good , any doubt don’t fly especially as you were flying over water and you had your son on board. I don’t blame you for your decision to fly after all we are all human and make decisions at the time. And it’s easy for me to say the above as I wasn’t there.
I was going to ask if that was the day when SkyDemon went down as we got caught out by it when John and I flew in there on the way back from St Omer to inspect Ben's Stemme for him. I said in that video that you were parked on the apron. ua-cam.com/video/is_HhBwTcm4/v-deo.html (It was really hot and we got dumped on landing) and by the way, 'Have you taken up stunt flying?' Good on you Bertie! :-)
Yes, that must have been the same day! Luckily, I spotted the email from SkyDemon telling me about the failure, so was able to re-file in time.
Out of the mouths of babies and sucklings.... Bertie: "Just don't do it again"
LOL.
I know that your channel isn´t very political. However, with the upcoming (hard?) Brexit, do you think your day trips across the channel will change or be less often?
Remains to be seen what the impact is going to be.
17:48 Was she nice?
Oolllaaaalaaaaa
Also the undercarriage says: I’m ok just don’t do that again to me! 😝