Let Me Explain Why It Would Be Preferable To Colonize Titan Instead Of Mars!
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- Опубліковано 28 тра 2024
- Until now, most researchers have considered the Moon or Mars as the ideal targets for the first step in colonizing our solar system. These destinations have the dual advantage of being close enough to Earth and presenting surface environments that are not entirely hostile to current technological capabilities. Among other possible destinations, Mercury is too close to the Sun, with extreme temperatures and other physical conditions that seem difficult to overcome. Venus is much closer, but its atmosphere is poisonous, extremely heavy, and scorching due to uncontrolled greenhouse effects.
However, even though the Moon and Mars may seem like relatively reasonable destinations, they also have fundamental problems. Neither of these planets is protected by a magnetic field or a significant atmosphere, which would force any future colonizers to live in underground shelters to protect themselves from deadly cosmic radiation. And just so you know, is there anyone among you who would want to go to a brand new world only to spend their life in an underground tunnel?
In fact, this is a problem for which no solution has been found, so much so that more than a few expert planetologists have recently begun to suggest that the ideal goal to attempt to build the first human colony is neither the Moon nor the Red Planet... but Titan, Saturn's large moon!
The atmosphere of Titan shields the surface from cosmic radiation.
Without an atmosphere dense enough to protect their surface from solar radiation, especially galactic cosmic radiation, any colony would ideally have to be located underground.
You wouldn't need a pressurized suit on Titan's surface.
Most rocky planets and all other moons in the solar system have little more than traces of an atmosphere.
Even Mars' atmosphere is little denser than a typical laboratory vacuum here on Earth.
Titan hosts the richest nitrogen atmosphere in the solar system.
Titan hosts the richest known nitrogen atmosphere, so colonists would only need to add oxygen, using the existing nitrogen as a buffer, to create breathable air.
Titan has rivers, lakes, and seas.
Titan is the only object in the solar system, apart from Earth, known to host significant amounts of surface liquids. In fact, it showcases seas, rivers, lakes, and even rain and glaciers, just like our world.
However, even though it's not visible, there is an abundance of water!
At temperatures twice as cold as the coldest ever recorded on Earth, water on Titan's surface will be permanently frozen and as hard as granite. However, even though there isn't an internal salty ocean, there is still a lot of frozen water on the moon's surface and locked in the rocks below.
The seas of Titan could provide polymers for construction.
With its practically infinite supply of liquid and solid hydrocarbons, Titan also has everything colonists would need to build a permanent shelter.
There is so much nitrogen in Titan's atmosphere that we could use it as fertilizer just like we do here on Earth.
Although Titan is inhospitable in itself, it seems to contain everything needed to build a completely self-sufficient colony, which would be vital given its great distance from Earth (1.2 billion km).
Resources Nearby: The Saturnian system hosts 62 moons and multiple rings composed of billions of icy particles.
Although Titan represents almost all the mass orbiting Saturn and is by far the largest moon of the planet, the abundance of other bodies in the Saturnian system also presents significant economic and exploratory potential.
We Could Even Fly There.
By far the simplest and most economical way to explore Titan would be to simply put on a pair of wings and... fly! Due to its small size and low density, Titan has a surface gravity of only about 14% of that of Earth, which is slightly less than that of our Moon.
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Credits: Ron Miller, Mark A. Garlick / MarkGarlick.com ,Elon Musk/SpaceX/ Flickr
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00:00 Intro
2:28 Titan Briefing
3:20 The atmosphere of Titan
4:50 You wouldn't need a pressurized suit on Titan's surface.
5:43 Titan hosts the richest nitrogen atmosphere
6:40 Titan has rivers, lakes and seas
10:15 resources nearby
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#insanecuriosity #colonizemars #colonizetitan - Наука та технологія
Seeing Saturn looming in the sky each day would make the -180C worth it.
I think the prospect of seeing Saturn in the sky, looking so huge, is what attracts people to Titan, but the atmosphere is supposed to be so thick and hazy that Saturn would seldom be very visible.
Yeah, that's super dense atmosphere
Don't want mars, I want cooler place.
@@ilovemybharat12 Pluto
@@ilovemybharat12 cold is death. We don't know cold in earth, the real cold is outside
Tidal forces from Saturn would need to be addressed. There may be massive moonquakes almost constantly because of it which would make building things hard.
just send the Japanese in first, they'll solve it
All buildings would have to be on skids.
Dude you need to wake up from your imagination pretend science fiction dream you talk like you been to Saturn wake up Nobody has and never will it’s fabricated science fiction movie. Wake up
Tidal forces. Hahahahaha too funny which Hollywood movie did you steal that from
Hahaha
You do know that 'tidal forces' means the effect of gravity on celestial bodies, right?@@angus7282
I feel like the biggest hurdle with any of this is purely moving the material to build anything like this in the first place.
We need a space elevator.
@@frbrable and the ability to generate a powerful magnetic field around any spacecraft to act like a portable Van Allen belt to protect the crews from most of the radiation.
@@no2party
you don't HAVE to do a magnetic field. "Time, distance, shielding". Make the vehicle go as fast possible, and put as much shielding as you can. It can be just a thick layer of water.
Though I would add that a magnetic sail, if pointed toward the sun, will accelerate you away without having to expend fuel, so there is that. 🙂
taylor, you want to do as much as possible using the materials found on the planet.
@@neutrino78x correct, a magnetic field isn't necessary but having multiple redundancies is practically a must
O'Neill Cylinders are the sound colonization options. The small moons and asteroids are for resources. The system's planets and moons are for scientific research facilities.
Titan could eventually act as the outer solar system's industrial powerhouse due to its plentiful nitrogen and hydrocarbons.
By the time humans start getting serious about widely colonizing the outer moons and planets of the solar system, Helium-3 refineries orbiting Jupiter and Saturn will probably be supplying nearly all of the fuel for spacecraft and colonies.
@@BrianWelch-vc7xy
Achieving workable, portable, affordable fusion is the real game changer. I think it would have such a profound impact across the board that we can barely imagine how it would change our civilization.
But where are you going to find an oxygen to utilize all that hydrocarbons? IMO, only nuclear fusion is practical for utilization in space.
Planets for scientific research? What a terrible idea. Just dismantle them to making rotating habs or virtual habs.
@@vladimirsilver2633 I agree with some of the planets... Mercury and Venus, for instance. Those that are remotely livable, however... should be lived on at least until we find better options.
The biggest problem with Titan isn't the atmosphere but the Distance. It takes way too long to get there in order to get into orbit (2,000 days or 5 1/2 years) and that is an huge hurdle to get over.
By comparison it takes about 7 months to reach Mars, which is a much more viable option and easier. In addition, if you want to turn around and come back you only have to wait 3 months to do so. Going to Jupiter and coming back would take 11 years (way too long). Sure we could get to Jupiter in a little over year but we can't land there because we would be going so fast, all we could do is just fly by and defeats the whole point of going there.
Mars is the most viable option right now and radiation isn't a problem if we use the inflatable modules Sierra Space is building.
Although, Mars does have pockets of Magnetic fields (due to the rock structures) and perhaps it would be suitable to build setup the inflatable modules in those areas.
Also complaining about going to Mars and having to live underground but then claiming to go to Titan where you will never ever see the sun is rather funny. At least on Mars you'll be able to go outside for short periods of time with a space suit and see the sun.
what we could do is not to colonize Mars but to build base there to manufacture our way to Titan
You forgot to mention Titan's hydrocarbon abundance, which would make bringing any sizeable amount of oxygen to the world a megadisaster waiting to happen.
As a respected Martian i'm truly insulted by this video..
Titan as a colonization prospect is hella overrated.
By contrast it takes less than a day to get anywhere on Earth and guess what, anywhere on Earth is better than anywhere in space.
Can we send Musk and Bezos there now?
"Is there anyone among you that want to go to a brand new world only to spend the rest of your life in an underground tunel?"
I AM A DWARF AND I'M DIGGING A HOLE
I just want Saturn in the sky, but seems like it'd be too cloudy to see it
Anyone who built on siberian permafrost knows that building on ice brings on a whole new engineering challenge.
Underground structure and soil cultivation immediately goes out the window, as heating up the ground would melt or sublimate it.
You need to build everything, including your farm, on top of an air gapped structure, and that does not sound easy at all.
We're engineers. We do hard shit.
@@darko714 Are you nerd sniping me? Because now that you mentioned it's hard, all of a sudden it looks interesting 😂
Still easier than doing it on a world with no atmosphere at all. Titan is also a lot colder than the Siberian permafrost.
@@nimblehuman yup, it's so insanely cold I very much doubt an insulated human-built structure would even make a dent in the iron-hard icy crust. Just mining that ice would be challenge enough, not like you could just go out with an ice-pick and get yerself a cup to melt for your coffee 😅. Also I don't think there is anything that counts as 'soil' for growing anyway. All crop cultivation would likely be soilless and hydroponic.
Even farming on Mars would be more complex than just making soil from regolith since the martian 'soil' is full of perchlorates toxic to plant life. It would need heavy processing to make it viable.
They already need to build completely sealed habitats. They aren't going to melt the ice without having catastrophic levels of heat loss for the habitat. I think the basic concept is already more difficult than building on Siberian permafrost. This is also why such a colony would need intensive support and shipping income in order to thrive at first, and it could be decades if not centuries before that colony produced enough goods to be even financially self-reliant.
Titan is my favourite body in the solar system but I have seen NASA talk about how it is much easier to survive no magnetic field at all than it is to survive Saturn's (and especially Jupiter's) magnetic field interacting with their satellites so I still think Mars is first on the list.
Titan is pretty far out in the Saturnian system. It's not close in like the Galilean moons of Jupiter. So radiation levels will be much less, and mitigated by the thick atmosphere.
Mars has Solar Radiation
Saturn is too far out plus it has a magnetic field
I'm not an advocate for Titan, but I'll point out that while on Earth, in terms of mass, there are 10 tons of atmosphere over each square metre, on Titan there's a hundred tons of atmosphere over each square metre of the surface.
@@andrewworth7574More than enough radiation protection
Your two biggest issues are the lack of gravity which degrades the human body and then it comes to growing food in radiated regolith, which would have to be processed and filtered with enormous refineries for a very long time and injected with bacteria before it could be called soil (the movie The Martian is full of shit ;) which along with ability to control gravity are technologies we do not yet posses nor are likely to for many decades (if we last that long).
Titan has ALWAYS been a big favourite from me, just the fact that you wouldn’t die from burning, drowning, crushing or ripping. You die mostly from lack of oxygen. We only need to fix temperature and oxygen and it would be an instant home.
Yeah that sounds fast and easy. And on holidays we could go to Venus to get a tan.
@@puliturchannel7225 don't have to be so literal, you know what he meant
I wasn't being literal, on the contrary that was irony. @@neutrino78x
@@puliturchannel7225😂
@puliturchannel7225 I mean, we can nuke the planet to see if we can build a breathable atmosphere may take years, but may work
One advantage: the buildings dont need to be pressurized. They just need to separate the internal and external atmospheres, that can be kept on the same pressure. Structures could be build as large tents (support frames and some layers of heat-isolating foil).
Some layers of insulation 😂
You’d need a lot of insulation to keep it cool (it’s colder than cold there…) and even more to make it actually warm
With only 14% gravity, humans simply could not live there long term.
If there was an easy method of generating a lot of atmosphere, and energy wasn't a huge problem, they could just be kept at a slightly higher pressure than the surrounding atmosphere so any leaks leak out and not in. Would mean building standard could be relatively crude and not overly complex and stringent. Building standard would be more comparable to standards for a hospital/lab on earth than for other space colonies.
the first one to get there will be military, them they will create wars. imaging.
Moon first. _Then_ Titan! True that distances to Titan are at this point technologically challenging. However colonizing the moon first would help us overcome certain technological hurdles and give us experience in the processes needed to develop infrastructure for colonial endeavors.
I think we are dreaming thinking that we will be ready for anything more than the moon right now anways.
For sure! We could do it if there was the political and social climate that was conducive to the Great Effort made for the Gemini/Mercury/Apollo initiatives and technology drivers generated in getting to the Moon. But for now, we are stuck in a post industrial cesspool of internecine nationalistic warfare and oligarchical preeminence. @@johnnypottseed
The moon is probably no-go for us, because humans don't do too well in microgravity. There are all sorts of theoretical solutions to a lot of the other problems like radiation, but none at all for low or no gravity. That's why Mars may be our only shot, and if it turns out humans don't do well in Martian gravity either (38% of Earth's), we may never be able to expand off the planet.
@@CaptainOverkill It depends on mission duration. A crew can do a lot in a month or two where physical conditioning In-situ creates conditions for success, and is not a deal-breaker at all. Mars might be a good option after colonizing, industrializing, and exploring the moon wherein processes for such endeavours will be refined. Most people also discount the advent of technological advances that make current challenges less problematic especially when in concordance with national scientific objectives and technology drivers. The Moon is the only doable and reasonable next step into exploring the solar system.
@@CaptainOverkill how about wearing some nice heavy ankle and wrist weights?
Atmospheric pressure and magnetosphere protection are big factors. Titan getting both right might ultimately be more workable. We can learn to get there faster.
It may also be the most plausible to colonize with intelligent robots. We would possibly have robots build infrastructure before human habitation, since they need no oxygen. We need to increase our production of radioisotope thermoelectric generators!
You have to watch out for the methane and chocolate rain on Titan though.
Methane Rain Lyrics
[Verse 1] Methane Rain We left Earth to find a new domain Methane Rain But Titan is not an easy terrain Methane Rain The atmosphere is thick and full of haze Methane Rain We have to wear suits to survive the days Methane Rain The gravity is low but still a drag Methane Rain We can’t fly or jump without a jetpack Methane Rain The surface is cold and covered with ice Methane Rain We have to drill and melt to reach the brine
[Refrain] Methane Rain A moon of Saturn with a hidden sea Methane Rain Could it hold the secrets of life’s key? Methane Rain A moon of Saturn with a hidden sea Methane Rain Could it hold the secrets of life’s key?
[Verse 2] Methane Rain We built a base near a giant lake Methane Rain But the weather is hard to forecast and track Methane Rain Sometimes it pours and floods our habitat Methane Rain Sometimes it’s dry and cracks our solar mat Methane Rain We try to study the chemistry and geology Methane Rain But the data is scarce and full of anomaly Methane Rain We wonder if there’s something alive down there Methane Rain But we don’t have the tools or the time to spare
[Refrain] Methane Rain A moon of Saturn with a hidden sea Methane Rain Could it hold the secrets of life’s key? Methane Rain A moon of Saturn with a hidden sea Methane Rain Could it hold the secrets of life’s key?
[Verse 3] Methane Rain We miss our home and our families Methane Rain But we can’t go back, we have to stay Methane Rain We are the pioneers of a new frontier Methane Rain We have to face the challenges and the fear Methane Rain We hope that one day we’ll make a breakthrough Methane Rain And find out what this moon can offer and do Methane Rain We dream of a future where we can thrive Methane Rain On this strange and distant world, we are alive
[Refrain] Methane Rain A moon of Saturn with a hidden sea Methane Rain Could it hold the secrets of life’s key? Methane Rain A moon of Saturn with a hidden sea Methane Rain Could it hold the secrets of life’s key?
@@John-tc9gp Hahahaha I like this! ✊🤘❤️
It takes small spacecraft 8 to 12 years to get to Titan. A spacecraft with many astronauts and all the supplies they need would go slower because it is larger. The astronauts would be 40 year old atrophied blind cripples by the time they arrived. The video keeps talking about the abundance of fuel on Titan. There is zero fuel without oxygen. It is minus 300 degrees. How would you keep warm? How would you grow plants? How would you feed the colony and replenish oxygen when there isn't enough light to grow plants of heat the greenhouse? Are you going to rely on huge supply ships arriving every year when they will take 20 years to travel that distance? All of this may be possible someday, but it certainly will not be easier than Mars.
@@John-tc9gp Glad some have a good track record out there.
The microgravity could be mitigated by specialized clothing that is magnetic. Then, the flooring could be magnetized somehow so as to apply a gravity-like effect on the special suit or clothing. Obviously, such a system would have to be tuned properly so that the maximum "pull" area affects the shoulder and torso area, so the arms might feel a little "light-weight" perhaps. Obviously, I don't have all the intricate details for how such a system might work, but it would be an interesting concept to explore in my opinion.
Ive always wanted to know exactly how Titan is better than Mars to colonize. Thank you for clearing things up!
But it didn't clear anything, is not better, is worse.
Titan's gravity is far too low for humans to survive long term, and it's much too far away. It's not feasible.
the first one to get there will be military, them they will create wars.
I agree with you, but he did end by saying "probably in a matter of centuries". I think Rotating space stations with water protecting the occupants is the answer. We can send robots to get resources from such distant places. The Moon, Mars and the asteroid belt should be able to provide most of what we want in space though. No one will want to live permanently on any of these bodies. However, we could return the Earth to a more habitable place for life in general if we can put most industry and food production off world. @@Christobanistan
@@Christobanistan I feel the gravity is not really an issue, only downside is returning to earth would be a pain on the body.
Great video. The only other downside is that daylight on the surface would be 1% that on Earth; dark twilight at its brightest!
-180 deg C is a major problem tho, again to get warmer one would have to go deep underground to get some geothermal energy.
At 15% the gravity, muscle wasting would be another issue. - Best option in my view is still to build a few descent sized mobile rotating space stations, and place them in orbits around places like the Moon, Venus Mars, Ganymede, Titan, Titania, Triton (thats 7 sounds like a good number).. my wish list for 2200, LOL
In Navy boot camp the Chief had a simple solution for getting warmer, He just said, "Jumping jacks! Ready, begin!" worked everytime!
Major problem? you mean LIFE ENDING PROBLEM. humans can not build anything useful on titans surface. humans could probably build something useful UNDER titans surface, where there is probably already life anyway. and being under the surface means the radiation is blocked by the surface anyway so titans atmosphere is not that useful. it may in fact be better for humans to aim for a smaller underice ocean like Enceladus because there is no atmosphere to content with when coming down from orbit, and the ocean is a lot more shallow so you can reach reasonable temperature depths without as much water pressure on top of you.
O'Neill colonies are the sensible option.
@@andrewworth7574 Yes, like that. Like those in the film Elysium.
Rotating space stations would need to solve the cosmic radiation problem. Even without shelter, being at the surface of a planetary body cuts the cosmic radiation exposure in half.
The upper atmosphere of Venus could be another interesting place to go. Plenty of solar energy, plenty of carbon, tolerable temperature and pressure, and air is a buoyant gas there.
It seems to me that you would need to keep an even higher air pressure in a habitat to prevent the intrusion of methane where it would mix with oxygen with disastrous results. Also any failure in heating of a space suit or habitat would result in instant freezing.
Failure of a heating source does not usually result in instant freezing. Your initial heat ( at the point of failure) will take some time to reduce to water freezing temps, depending on the insulating properties of your suit.
@@jackieking1522 , The temperature on Titan is nearly -300 degrees F. If a spacesuit heating failure occurred the poor guy would be a block of ice in mere seconds.
It's not realistically feasible maybe robots
@@davidgardner863I strongly doubt. It's not liquid, it's gas and the cooling speed would most likely be relatively low, definitely not instant
@@jimmcneal5292 , Okay, minutes then.
We can use nuclear generators to melt ice and separate Hydrogen and Oxygen. Then we can combine the hydrogen with the abundant Nitrogen to make Ammonia (which can be used for fertilizer etc.). Next, we can either use the leftover oxygen to burn the ethane rivers for energy or release it into the atmosphere.
Loved the video, hated the ending. Wish we could go there now. You successfully sold me on the benefits of Titan over Mars
We can't go even to the moon. Just like he says in the video at 4:05
I still think floating habitats on Venus would be a fun and workable trial for extra-planetary exploration. You can have floating habitats at around 30ish miles up, and still maintain protection from radiation with the thick atmosphere above you. The habitat could ride the winds and circle the planet every 48 hours giving a reasonable day/night cycle. You have close to Earth gravity and ample access to solar and wind generated power.
The big problem of course is access to materials, and that we need improved marerials that can withstand sulfuric acid clouds. But damn it would be fun!
And durability of the floating craft. If it ever loses buoyancy, you are doomed to a very painful death.
@@paulmichaelfreedman8334 IDK, kind of a reverse of "It's not the fall that kills you, it's the landing." one level up. We've had buoyancy mastered for over a thousand years. It's more steering and structural integrity that are the problems. Yes, the Hindenberg, the Titanic, and the Challenger all sank back to their local density equilibria but everyone involved in every place was having a very bad day well before any lack of altitude became an issue.
@@adamlucas4753 Well, I'd agree with you normally but the fact of the matter is that if you were to fall into the atmosphere of Venus you'd be melted and cooked and reduced to carbon residue before you hit the ground. Seems quite painful to me. Oh and due to the atmosphere being 90 times denser, in the lower atmosphere where the sulphuric acid concentration is highest, your terminal velocity would be like floating to the ground, very slowly, at most tens of kilometers per hour. Your cooked and compressed sludge would hit the ground at a speed you normally would not die from. Like how snow falls to the ground.
@@paulmichaelfreedman8334 You'd normally agree with me but, like an idiot who didn't understand a word I wrote, you'd prefer to restate in concrete detail *precisely* what I said? I know you always want to be right, but you've contradicted yourself and you can't have it both ways. So, which is it, is buoyancy an issue or would "Your cooked and compressed sludge hit the ground at a speed you normally would not die from." because, just like with the Titanic or the Hindenburg being more buoyant doesn't prevent you from being cooked or frozen to death (or dissolved) even if you maintain buoyancy/altitude. We have ships today that have been floating for over a century, when they sink, they predominantly don't sink from a leak or spontaneous rupture nearly as often as they strike something or are struck or experience turbulence/shear forces that their structure wasn't meant to withstand. None of which is solved or even addressed by buoyancy issues and which is addressed by steering and or better structural design.
@@adamlucas4753 My goodness, don't you feel attacked. Relax man, it's only the YT comment section.
Mars is closer, the moon even closer than that, and you can use non nuclear detonations to clear out large chasms- far from living in a tunnel. Besides, minus teraforming atmosphere wise, we've pretty much changed the face of our planet covering kilometers. Manmade lakes, hollowing out limestone mountains, salt mines, all such methods could be used for purposes of excavation on mars.Engineers would be able to come up many ways to solve the problems planetary engineering. Both on mars, and titan. Personally, I'd like titan to be colonized too- it would be spectacular to see saturn, the ringed glory rising in its skies.
@@Flipnotic64 , look at buckeye lake in Ohio, St. Mary's lake in the same state- the lake in Russia which in this case was formed by a nuke. Using these methods on another world is what's fiction, now.
Or we could build habitats in the lava tubes that exist on the moon and Mars.🤔
We should start with a moon. Focus on mining robots, and 3d printing. Then Create bigger and bigger constructions, finally habitating our own Moon. With that experience we will be reaady to go further - any direction.
@@HCforLife1, AGREED!
@@ARWest-bp4yb , that's right. And as you know, neither the moon or Mars has a molten core therefore there's no danger of reoccurring lava flows.
Theres a reason nobody lives in Antarctica. Titans is well over 100 degrees colder and only gets 1 percent of the sunlight earth gets. It would be a crazy challenge to keep any machine from freezing. Its not a realistic choice with our current technology but its fun to imagine. Either way you need to live need to live in some dome meaning you might as well live on mars. Its still a better choice.
Would be soo cool to live in an era of colonies on Titan.. to see all the stuff going on there
I think that much easier would be to do smaller steps. Start with the base on the Moon, build some factories there, then do the same on the Mars.
This is the debate what the smaller step is.. there are arguments why Mars may be easier than Moon, since you have way more resources in your vicinity. The biggest problem with Mars is tough, you need again rocket to come back up, and for it you'd need to be able to make fuel there.. taking the fuel for the return trip with you is not feasible... a one way trip would be doable now.. only no one (as in a space program financing this, not some lunatic) wants to.
@@georgelionon9050 yeah, and taking off from Titan takes only slightly more than leaving the Moon, but there are the materials to make fuel for the return trip.
And the flight (without gravity assists from Jupiter) would take only 50% more than one to Mars. And the flight to Mars is getting to LEO, and then the rest.
The first colony being on our moon just seems like such a no brainer. Creating literally a jumping off point to the rest of our solar system. Its only two weeks away, you build it on the dark side of the moon to limit solar radiation. Power it with a solar tower, which given the gravity of the moon, is an easy fabrication and maintenance object. While one does have to accept that there is little in the way of resources on the moon, and certainly minimal amounts of terrestrial study to be undertaken, there will still be a mountain of space data to consume. And in the end of the day, it will be a way station Lets start with a doable, feasible and safer colony before we let our britches get to big.
@@thecocktailian2091 there is no "dark" side of the moon, there is one said that never faces earth.. but that does mean little to solar radiation. And it certainly not a no brainer, the advantage of a moon is that is relatively close, but thats all about that. The question still is open if this means any meaningful, why need that stop? It is debatble, but certainly not a "no brainer"..
@@georgelionon9050 well im certainly no cosmologist, so I shall leave it to you and your decades of scientific research and education. But from my arm chair commanders seat and my 100's of hours playing No Mans Sky, no brainer for me.
Why not Ganymede? It's closer than Titan, it actually leaks oxygen and has a salty ocean underneath its icy surface
I honestly think it has to do with the fact that there is no solid ground the entire surface is just glaciers that sit on top a sea, not only that but the glaciers are being constantly shifted by the gravitational pull of Jupiter meaning you can really build anything perminate on it
Neither is going to happen for a long, long, time.
Around 2034 to be exact 🪐
In ten years?
@@HeidiMoran-vg3wz roughly around that time. That’s what NASA said on their website.
“Begining is half done” aristotle
@@adrielbearden4060 what? NASA is going to Titan in 2034?
What an incredible video Guys !! Thank you all !! much appreciated
I would take a floating city on Venus (above the sulfuric acid clouds) over Mars or Titan any day.
me too
a literal hell below you
@@ZygonesBzygones
Just don't fall 😬
And how, pray, does it stay afloat? Sky hooks?
Good luck if you cant send a message to Earth or being with your Floating Habitat if something goes wrong.
If you think about it the number of factors that make Earth quite habitable is quite surprising. Assuming they’re all independent - they’re not exactly - statistics will tell you it’s unlikely as “and” items are multipliers. Take fractions less than one and multiply them all and it will go to zero quickly. But finding another ready-made planet for us humans is no easy feat. I’ll bet the nearest one that meets most our needs is light years away.
I agree, it would be better to perfect our own planet before trying to colonise another. At the moment we are destroying it. The fact that we cannot sustain this planet with all that is given to us, says to me we would not be able to sustain any other. We really have to get our own house in order first.
What it takes to keep humans alive and comfortable might be meaningless to another species.
The rare earth hypothesis is more and more likely the more we learn about space.
There are no other places in our solar system that are innately suitable for human life. The nearest solar system is 4 light years away. So yeah, light years away.
That said, space is big on a scale we cannot possibly fathom. So while it may be statistically unlikely for an individual solar system to have an earth-like planet, its likely there are many millions of them in our universe.
It's fairly easy to make a livable space in space though … you know, within the context of living in space. You just have to use rotation as replacement for gravity. If you make the shell out of steel enforced pykrete, for instance, then you have the radiation shield along with a very strong structure. So if only we could find a way to get large amounts of water into space, a lot would be done. But this also means that we could have such a habitat in orbit around Mars or Titan, so that we could have quick and easy access to the surface, while living comfortably in orbit.
After seeing 7:13, I'm up for a trip to Titan!
Interesting thanks for sharing your thoughts
1:08 You'd have to live that way regardless because to date we've yet to find a world similar to our own in terms of size, mass, temperature and atmospheric composition and thickness, around a star similar to our own that is neither too active nor advanced in terms of stellar ageing.
Also, you'd need a crap ton of oxygen, which would be catastrophic on a hydrocarbon-rich world like Titan (you may as well be planning to blow the entire Saturnian moon up).
Sure we have. Venus is sufficiently similar to Earth. The problem is people perceive planets as being entirely homogenous, static, & relatively non-complex celestial objects; where, to settle one, you're going to need a fairly large amount of relatively high quality land, with a good layer of topsoil if you can find it & preferably some indigenous folk that can be easily captured & given something useful to do because space colonizing is difficult work & occasionally you'll want to kick back & bask in the warm alien sun -- although no lemonade & you'll have to p*** yourself because that alien atmosphere isn't going to be oxygenated & even if it were, with our weak & frail & pathetic bodies only partly compatible with the planet Earth, you'll be wearing some form of spacesuit that provides an optimum internal human environment...everything needed except for a means to expel one's own s*** & p***; for that, there will be an integrated a diaper into the suit. BUT! That seems entirely apt!
IF we're going to think & act like young toddlers when it comes to colonizing other worlds, THEN it's only fitting that we should have to p*** & s*** ourselves like young toddlers too.
Venus' atmosphere contains the most Earth-like conditions than anywhere else in our solar system, except for the Earth itself. Venus is closer than Mars meaning astronauts can travel there & back & not exceed their maximum tolerable excess dosage of radiation simply by being in transit. Venus has more frequent launch windows for supplies or for emergency assistance to realistically be deliverable. Venus' gravity is very close to our own on Earth which is important because your body won't start consuming itself, acclimating down to a low G Mars environment that will never allow you to return to Earth if you go there. Venus' atmosphere is doubly protective against radiation -- for one, Venus actually has an atmosphere; that in itself is a big plus for reducing exposure to radiation. & Two, the density & energy driving atmospheric conditions on Venus is enough to generate a modest magnetic field protecting the planet at least from having its atmosphere ripped off by constant high-energy solar bombardment.
Venus is a hot planet & Venus is a corrosive environment & Venus is a very dense planet. Its average surface level is extreme. It does have continents with better conditions, but still quite extreme. If you travel up into the atmosphere, at approx. 50Km, 1 Earth atmosphere is buoyant. Temperatures will have fallen to a human tolerable range. & The clouds of sulfuric acid are reduced substantially. These conditions, we already have the tech necessary to cope. Indeed, we have the technological foundations to potentially cope with surface conditions of Venus. That's why a colony in Venus' atmosphere is so superior to the surface of Mars -- Venus actually has stuff; a lot of that stuff isn't yet accessible; & a lot of people would really like to check that stuff out. Venus offers the drive for research & technological development that sets the bar so high, once we have fully developed technology to cope with the surface conditions of Venus, at the same time, we will have developed the technology that opens the exploration of nearly all other celestial bodies that also contain stuff (not the irradiated hell hole that is Mars, nor the gas giants...). & As a species, we really can't get enough stuff! & Since Mars is not only just radically impractical for colonization, but it is also severely lacking any stuff, I don't see any reason to kill astronauts in an attempt to land them there. Instead, I'd rather them live in the atmosphere of Venus & then return home to Earth whenever the next transit window comes around. The return home would be simple, they wouldn't step out of their return vehicle turned into freaks of nature barely able to survive once again on Earth; they would be safe & normal & they could go on to live their lives & they could rest easy, knowing they have contributed greatly to the advancement of our species.
@@j.macjordan9779 I appreciate the effort you put into writing all this, but there is so much wrong here and I don't have the energy to unpack it all. ChatGPT does though:
Venus' atmosphere is not the most Earth-like in the solar system; its surface conditions are extremely hostile, with high temperatures and pressures.
Venus' atmosphere does not offer significant protection against radiation; it lacks a global magnetic field like Earth's.
The concept of Venus having "continents with better conditions" is misleading; Venus' surface is uniformly extreme and inhospitable.
The idea of Venus having a modest magnetic field is incorrect; Venus does not have an intrinsic magnetic field like Earth.
The technology to cope with Venus' surface conditions is not currently as advanced as suggested; we are far from establishing a colony there.
The claim that Mars lacks "stuff" (resources) is inaccurate; Mars has various resources that could support colonization efforts.
The assertion that colonizing Venus would be simpler and safer than Mars is speculative and overlooks the significant challenges of Venusian colonization.
The notion that astronauts returning from Venus would be "safe and normal" oversimplifies the health challenges associated with long-duration space travel.
The statement that Mars is "radically impractical for colonization" ignores ongoing research and development efforts aimed at making Mars colonization feasible.
The idea that we already have the technology to cope with conditions 50km up in Venus' atmosphere is optimistic; current technology is not yet at this level.
Ultimately, Mars has water, Venus doesn't. That's why we're not going to Venus for the next century, it's expensive to send supplies over.
@SPCv4 - I generally don't converse with machines; they are wrong on arrival because they are not intelligent. ChatGPT, especially, is quite inferior to any Human of any intelligence - I've never been able to break a Human within 5min of merely speaking words...or typing words in ChatGPTs case. ChatGPT is built as static code designed to sort biased data & regurgitate it out in a manner the majority find acceptable, & whether it be true or not because ChatGPT, once prompted, can't help but not shut the f*** up! It is not AI; it is not intelligent; & its relevancy to the discussion at hand is non-existent. Is it any surprise that it told you exactly what you wanted to hear? I don't think so. Remember, ChatGPT is built by a company founded by a Man who has made it his life's ambition to put Human Beings (excluding himself) on Mars. So, once again, ChatGPT is wrong on arrival...& in more ways than just one.
Now, as for Venus not having water - this is incorrect. Venus has water vapor in its atmosphere. We've known this longer than we've known of any water on Mars. We've detected & extracted Water from the atmosphere of Venus before on more than one occasion. & I would still argue that going to Venus is far less expensive than going to Mars - Venus has even been suggested as a preferable target destination in transiting to Mars! & I would argue that the ROI in going to Venus instead of Mars makes Mars seem rather irrelevent in the grand scheme of things...(?)
So, I appreciate the non-effort in responding to my effort, but I suppose we'll just have to disagree here...I guess I just don't know what else to say... In my opinion, reason & rationality & logic are the better tools for approaching where our Species might venture an evolutionary leap & succeed in doing so within our solar system; &, in your opinion, ChatGPT is the better tool for doing the same...(?)
What is the difference between having to stay indoors/underground because of cold and unbreathable atmosphere and having to stay indoors/underground because of cold, unbreathable atmosphere and radiation?
One is much further away. Titan despight the cold seems the better option though. Lifting off from it is also easier.
Unless you're building something in existing underground caverns, then you would have to excavate first. That means heavy machinery would be required, increasing the difficulty in creating habitats.
For Mars, you'd need to find very large caverns or lava tubes to make underground bases practical in the near term. Transporting a boring machine and getting it to function on alien geology is a challenge unto itself - even here on Earth it isn't that simple
Because Titan has the resources capable of changing that condition. On Mars, it will never (not on any meaningfully short time line) change. Titan supplies enough energy that humans would figure it out and alter it.
@@Redmenace96 Melting the moon that you want to build on seems like it would just get you a different set of problems.
@@cylontoaster7660
"For Mars, you'd need to find very large caverns or lava tubes to make underground bases practical in the near term. "
Those lava tubes are known to exist already, so this isn't really a barrier on Mars. 🙂
On titan, you don't necessarily have to be underground, but it's much further away than Mars, which is a barrier, and it's more likely to currently have life, which would be an ethical issue to some extent. 🙂
Venus is actually an interesting place as far as a possible colony goes. Not the surface. But some parts of the atmosphere could actually be used by air ships. In Theory.
It's gravity is also 91% of Earth's which is far better than Mars, and especially Titan.
@@Christobanistan That might actually be even the most important aspect.
People often glance over it like as it doesn't mean anything. But when you lookt at it in detail the low gravity on Mars would actually be a very serious problem. And one that's not easy to overcome. Almost everything could be, in theory, solved. Radiation, dust, lack of water and very low temperatures. But low gravity? That's a tough nut to crack because our biology can not adjust to it.
@@CrniWukMars' 37% gravity is very probably enough for us to survive without health issues, while making things significantly easier to lift.
@@Christobanistan I am not so sure about that.
"Abstract
It is well known that long-term exposure to microgravity causes a number of physiological and biochemical changes in humans; among the most significant are: 1) negative calcium balance resulting in the loss of bone; 2) atrophy of antigravity muscles; 3) fluid shifts and decreased plasma volume; and 4) cardiovascular deconditioning that leads to orthostatic intolerance. It is estimated that a mission to Mars may require up to 300 days in a microgravity environment; in the case of an aborted mission, the astronauts may have to remain in reduced gravity for up to three years. Although the Soviet Union has shown that exercise countermeasures appear to be adequate for exposures of up to one year in space, it is questionable whether astronauts could or should have to maintain such regimes for extremely prolonged missions. Therefore, the NASA Life Sciences Division has initiated a program designed to evaluate a number of methods for providing an artificial gravity environment."
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11536970/#:~:text=It%20is%20well%20known%20that,plasma%20volume%3B%20and%204)%20cardiovascular
We're talking about long term exposure here. Like having eventually a colony. Spending eventually years on the surface with low gravity. And the longer the exposure is, the more difficult is it to counter it. And the effects can be very severe over time.
It definetly will be a serious problem for any long term mission. Leave alone "living" in such conditions.
We could have solar powered airships growing food and producing oxygen right now 38 miles above the surface of Venus. NASA already has an unfunded program: HAVOC.
Thanks @Kyle Hill i can spot out these science content mills allot faster now
I like the idea of floating cities in the upper atmosphere of venus. At the right altitude you've got 80 degrees Fahrenheit and about the same gravity as well as being a planet away.
I think the same gravity on a floating city is a bit of a stretch, temperature is totally doable
@@davidsnow2653 We're talking "floating", not "orbiting". A venus-atmospheric floating city wouldn't be going anywhere near as fast as orbit, and the gravity felt by those aboard it wouldn't be much different than Venus' 8.97m/s^2.
High gravity is overrated honestly, Mars has a good gravity level, livable indefinitely but very easy to launch from if you want to go anywhere.
@@tehScribbles Mars has just a tad over 1/3 the gravity of earth. A 200lb. man would weigh around 70 lbs. Not even close to livable long term. All kinds of bad health outcomes.
I don't see any human colonies anywhere....perhaps a research station on the moon, 'cause it's a few days away...anything else is a suicide mission I'd say.
With the advances now made with A.I., we could send up terminator style robots to do the dirty work for us. Best case scenario. Next century we might have better tech for human colonies... but clearly not quite yet.
There's basically no benefit to colonizing the atmosphere of venus because you can't take advantage of the resources on the surface.
I am not even sure it would be possible to stand upright on Titan currently. How cold is it? Even if you had a suit that could stand the cold..the surface contact point with the suit would have a heat difference and the reaction would be worse than standing on the most slippery of ices.
Ice skates, my friend, ice skates!
Even if we had a solution to those problems, there's one major glaring issue that a lot of people seem not to recognize with Titan in particular. Titan is a world dominated by hydrocarbons, both in terms of atmospheric content as well as surface fluid and precipitation. And the problem with that is humans need oxygen to breathe and food to eat, both of which would normally come from plants via farming. But that in and of itself risks the possibility of a planet-wide catastrophe, because the moment oxygen mixes with hydrocarbons or vice versa, it's only a matter of time before a chain reaction is set off resulting in a deadly explosion.
@@jeffreyerwin3665 Wouldn't work. Titan is so cold water ice would be frozen harder than steel.
Could we develope heated blades for our ice skates?@@timothyvanhoeck233
Ice only gets slippery when partially melted, under Titan conditions it is basically rock and would not be the least slippery.
Very nice and interesting video. The analysis is relevant, Titan will be an attractive place to colonize despite its distance after Mars. However, there is Ganymede which is less distant (in comparison with Titan) and where there is water.
There is water yes but the surface is under water meaning what your landing and building on are glaciers that are constantly being shifted by Jupiter's pull so yeah it has thing titan doesnt but its also just a whole lot more compictated when actually trying to set somthing perminent
@@Cameron39829 You are thinking of Europa
in the UK we call this a banger, a banger of a video mate.
You may not need to be underground, but it might not be a bad idea to be at least partially submerged. I mean weather could still damage things, and you could have failed pressure seals from fatigue of use. You would still want multiple redundant seals and enclosures between the people and the outside. Seasons and weather in general also means materials will expand and contract as the temperatures change, and that could be a problem over a long period of time.
Remember, Mars does has a moon spiraling in, 50 million years they sat but its still coming.
@@seansimms8503 I think that's far enough out to not be an immediate concern lol
If we had the tech and resources to "teraform" Mars or Titan, then it would be way easier and more logical to maintain the planet we already have. You'd need bases on the moon and on Mars for the infrastructure necessary to set up anything on Titan, and the timing window for launches would be very small. I just find it funny that we don't even know our own oceans, and yet we think about occupying other celestial bodies.
being stuck on 1 floating rock = inevitable extinction
@eclipse369. I get the whole concept of spread out and mitigate one event from wiping everything out, but where we are at, any attempt to establish ourselves on another planet wouldn't be sustainable and would rely on our "mother" planet for a long time, if not indefinitely. Well at least long enough for the home planet to be rendered incapable of future support... = extinction
I like the idea that you could send a colony there and it would be self sufficient, you wouldn't have to be resupplied by earth like you would on mars or the moon.
14% Earth gravity is likely not enough for huamns to survive long term.
@@Christobanistanwe genuinely have no idea. We might be able to work it out. The issue I have is that I don't see why you would expect access to building materials. There will be mountains, but probably made of ice. I don't think a colony would have access to enough mineral material to be self sufficient and grow, and I don't see any economic advantages to going there. At best it would be a penal colony, but even those were expected to be self sufficient.
I wonder if a lander experiment is in order… containing a fungus or tube worm colony, not requiring photosynthesis, with an RTG to keep it warm, exposed to small amounts of warmed Titan atmosphere, and a robot gardener in attendance- could it survive?
The upper atmosphere of Venus at one atmosphere is far more habitable. You get nearly the same gravity and temperature as Earth, protection from radiation, at one atmosphere.
Yes, main problem is the engineering required to create the perfect floating city that can never fail ever almost 5 years distant from earth is thousands of years in the future. In the long, long term I would agree that's the best place for humans in the solar system
Um...you're forgetting one teensy tiny little detail: those lethal clouds of highly corrosive sulfuric acid.
@@timothyvanhoeck233 No , I'm not forgetting that. The occupants would obviously be inside a floating habitation, not flying around in the open like birds.
@@caezar55 5 years ???
It takes 3 - 6 months to Venus with current technology for space probes, and the technology for a floating habitat already exists. Of course an elaborate "city" with all the comforts of home is a distant dream.
Not to mention living in a city floating in the sky is more appealing than in a city underground. If you cannot go outside, at least you need a nice view.
If only we started with a planet that was perfect for life
@@J.C.1966 It isn't perfect - which is why we invented houses to live in.
poor old Terra is just too hospitable, she all but demands to be abused and ravaged
Titan, Mars and Luna will promptly kill you if you do not watch your ecology closely
@@jessepollard7132 you realize not everyone lives in houses right? Not everyone needs the same luxuries
Nothing lasts forever. The countless extinctions and the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs should be a testament to that. Having all humanity in one basket assures our end.
@takotako808 Shelter is a necessity no matter what it looks like. Be it sticks or stone, humans need shelter from the elements.
11:45: Rules of thumb: 4X gravitational acceleration -> 2X terminal velocity; 4X atmospheric density -> 1/2 the terminal velocity.
If you add oxygen to the atmosphere of Titan, the lakes become flammable. Not a good idea.
Plus the fact that it would take MANY years to get there on a ship
why bother with the ship? Teleportation!
Minor quibble - you referred to Titan's methane and ethane as an abundant fuel supply. They are only fuel here due to Earth's oxygen-rich atmosphere. On Titan they are pretty much inert unless you want a supply of hydrogen for nuclear propulsion.
Or just bring oxygen with you, although you'd need to replenish the supply and that means water mining and splitting, which is a very energy intensive process.
Since Solar is in short supply out there, geothermal is a slim possibility (Titan has "Cryo-volcanism") and unless you can make enough energy burning hydrocarbons USING Oxygen made from splitting ICE to make enough power to PRODUCE Oxygen from splitting ICE (Hint: You can't :( ), you'd probably need something like a small nuclear reactor/thorium reactor.
You could even design jet aircraft that carry Oxygen onboard in place of fuel and intake Methane from the environment instead of Oxygen.
Neat huh?
the video talked about extracting oxygen from the frozen water.... Of course, that would take (plenty of) energy!
good point
How do you burn methane and ethane though when there's no oxygen? And how do you fix the nitrogen in the air to organic compounds in large scale when there's no liquid water available on the surface?
Already learned something: I thought the moons of Jupiter were leading candidates. I thought Titan was a moon of Jupiter.
Thank you!
the first one to get there will be military, them they will create wars.
Also I think having both Sunrise-Sunset and Planetrise-Planetset is cooler than having only one
Imagine being a child and growing up with that.
Titan lacks enough gravity and phosphorus.
Yikes!
To be fair, you could build spinning habitats and may be lucky to find reserves of phosphorus on Titan or nearby moons, asteroids etc.
But Mars will be uninhabitable again once the sun starts expanding Jovian moons will be better because they will last.
@@okidokidraws I hope you realise we can do much more than colonise the solar system with 5billion years handy
There is a much bigger problem than there being low gravity. Considering it'd take around a decade to reach titan. Not only would it be impossible to respond to an emergency. No astronaut has ever spent close to 10years in space, and even when people return from long stays in space they can't walk immediately after returning to earth. And its safe to say that when anyone makes it to titan in a nearby hypothetical mission they would have nobody around to teach them how to walk again.
@@clarko-ow5oq I'm just saying Terraforming mars is a waste of time when we can Colonize the outer planets for a longer time frame Mars has too many problems to Terraform
Titan gravity is about the same as lunar gravity, a bit inconvenient but easy to adapt to given time.
Fascinating vid ! all sounds do-able .
That was an interesting little video and compelling arguments for settling on Titan - sorting out faster travel to get there would be the biggest hurdle. I know settling on other planets is super cool, but we've still got so much area here on earth we haven't utilized. I live in Australia and we've got literally millions of square kilometers of Mars-like terrain - not much but rocks and red dirt. We should at least start 'colonizing' desolate areas here on Earth before we pack our bags for other planets. Having said that, I'd be the first to put up my hand to go on an adventure to another planet but I don't think I'd wanna stay on those other cold, dim, hazy worlds.
I think in time we should colonize or at least set up a colony or at least a space station in just about every planet and or moon. The moon, Mars, and Venus are the best places to start because they need to be starting points to help us get to other planets / moons.
who will resupply other planet stations, only colonies should have space stations
Agreed, but I'm skeptical regarding Venus due to her extremely harsh conditions (heat, pressure, acid rain).
@@goldfing5898 The key to Venus right now is living in the atmosphere in cloud cities until our technology advances enough to be able to go there comfortably. maybe in a couple 100 years we'll be able to terraform the planet or we'll the shield technology or ways to adapt and be able to oi there.
@@Aaramliaswe just need to get holzmans antigravity generator theorem right 😂
@@patrickday4206 Has someone already got a start on anti-grav? If so that would be awesome!!
Great channel for those who never graduated high school.
And those who haven’t mastered critical thinking.
May I please be allowed to join your hyper intelligent people's club? Mwah mwah mwah 💋
@@gpwnedable who says it requires hyper intelligence? Just a fair amount is ample.
LOL. Sad, but true.
Looks like Titan will be waiting for a cult to colonize it
The moon still needs to be the first choice. It's close enough that we can get there easier and comparatively affordably compared to Mars or Titan. The moon's available water ice and the ability to dig into the side of a crater makes it very attractive. Yes, they will be living underground, but it won't require much vertical excavation since you can just go in horizontally. The problem with Titan is its distance and time in transit. It's common enough for probes to fail on their way to Mars. If we're sending people all the way to Titan, there can be no critical failures. We need to improve our spacecraft reliability before we even consider sending humans out that far. Fortunately, a lunar colony will make things easier. Because of the lower gravity, larger ships can be constructed that have more redundancies and better radiation shielding. Even if we have to ferry most of the components from Earth, launching it from the moon will still have many benefits. Like it or not, we NEED the moon.
The close proximity of our moon makes it the prime candidate for a permanent station.
I loved the depiction of the various options for colonisation I. "The expanse". I suspect though that anything more than an outpost will require major AI robotic geoengineering. In that context Mars is easier because of the solar power. Though if there was a way to reduce venus' atmosphere by fixing the carbon, the woukd be best
What is the benefit of trying to colonise Mars?
@@limitededition1053 The same kinds of reasons people on Earth traveled to and colonized other lands in human history. The desire to escape from persecution, to find new room to expand and grow their tribe, to obtain more resources, etc.
@@CaptainOverkill Yes exactly my point, greed.
Venus' problem isn't the carbon dioxide, it's the sheer volume of the total atmosphere.
As an example, I point to Mars, which has more CO2 in its atmosphere than we do (about double the volume)... and yet it doesn't really do anything for the temperature. (Mars and Venus both have 95% CO2 atmospheres, though Mars' has WAY less total volume of everything.)
If you want to cool Venus, you have physically remove a large chunk of its atmosphere entirely, which would be difficult because the gravity obviously wants to keep it there. Actually, plant life could manage the job, too... if you could keep them alive long enough. But that would be quite the trick in that heat/pressure.
@@Swiftbow And the rest of Venus's atmosphere is sulphuric acid.
Truly an amazing video
Good video. I still think that the most likely place we will "live" is in large rotating space stations. They will be located in orbits adjacent to resources. Starting with the Moon then probably large objects in the asteroid belt like Ceres. The metals for construction will have been sourced from space using greatly robotic missions. Water will be stored around the habitation parts of the stations about 2 meters thick to prevent radiation being to great a problem.
Exactly. Especially when you consider the ability to live in underground tunnels on Mars which helps with radiation and could potentially provide water from ice. Plus, we can always magnify the sunlight coming down into the tunnels through creative ways.
Seems kinda odd to be honest. Why wouldn’t we just build a space colony in orbit of our current planet that is custom fitted for our survival and comfort rather then trying to live in rat tunnels underground on a hostile to all life environment that is billions of miles away?
@@Rykojames cost, area potential, breathing room, resource allocation, natural resources needed for long term survivability, and another few hundred examples we can list to you if needed. Really think about your question and why it’s a terrible idea compared to opening a colony on Mars, moons around Jupiter and Saturn, etc instead. Planets and moons provide tons of resources, protection from radiation, etc whereas building an orbital station requires taking and finding all the resources needed to that station to build. Just take water and radiation protection as two examples. Do you get what we’re saying on why opening and growing a base on Mars is smarter in terms of a human colony?
@@ttrestle I have thought about it.. Which is why I can't think of a single reason why it makes any sense to colonize a planet ever.. Even if it was an exact clone of Earth.
I think you might be having a misunderstanding of the difference between what a "colony" and an "outpost" is... Of course it makes sense to create mining outpost to gather resources off them.
I'm not sure how you can suggest cost is in the favor of colonizing planets over orbital space colonies.. Every single cost that is required to build a space colony would be required to building habitat on an uninhabitable planet.. Except you have to 100x all of it for the cost of fuel to transport it all billions of miles instead of just having it in orbit. You need all of the same stuff to colonize an uninhabitable planet as you do to make a space station... Except on top of it you also need to have protection against earth quakes, bad weather, and other natural disasters that come along with being on a planet.
Area potential? Are you serious? There is enough room in our orbit around the sun alone for like 18,000 planet sized space colonies.. And several billion within the entirety of the 3D habitable zone of our solar system. And they would all be in our back yard instead of 40,000 years of travel away.
Long term survivability? I don't understand how not being subjected to a planets natural disasters is a detriment to survivability. Maybe you should give me some of those "hundreds of examples" that you can list for me.
"water and radiation"... If a planet doesn't have an atmosphere or magnetic field then you are going to have to take every single measure to build a habitable colony on the surface of that planet/moon that you would have to take to build one in orbit. Except youll have to additionally build protections against earth quakes, giant sand storms, uncomfortable levels of gravity, and every other natural disasters.. Combined with being totally immobile and unable to just move out of the way of potential impacts.
Anyways, I'm having a slow weekend.. Feel free to give me your hundreds of example so I can dismantle them. Itll be fun and maybe youll be the first person ever to bring up something I haven't already thought of.
@@ttrestle Come on man your fuckin up my weekend.. Give me those 100s of example you talked about.
@@Rykojames I have faith you can figure on your own
Edit: I mistook Titan for Triton. So the following comment is nullified.
I'll tell you why we shouldn't: Titan [actually Triton] is the only counter-orbiting body in the solar system because all the others have been eliminated. Eventually its rotation will slow and become unstable. When that happens, it will either drift into deep space, drift into its host or break apart. There is no good end coming for Titan [Triton].
Venus rotates opposite of many planets and Uranus is sideways comparatively. Rotation direction changes day length by a lot, but the bigger problems are distance and the it's a moon.
@@briandegitz8978 Apologies. I meant counter-orbiting.
Also, Venus' size and orbital radius means it will take a lot longer for its counter rotation to be negated and it will then undergo reversal if it doesn't tip over to become tidally locked. Its spin is already very slow.
I think you’re confusing Titan with Triton, Neptunes largest moon.
@@toucheturtle3840 Ah, touche, uh, turtle. I guess I don't need to point out why I mistook it. 🙂
While the atmosheric protection, available natural resources, and Saturn's magnetosphere are all pluses as a candidate for human colonization, the gravity on Titan is less than that of our own Moon. Titan has 14% of Earth's gravity (150lb person would weigh 21lb) - long term viability for humans is extremely questionable.
One massive problem that was overlooked in this. That could potentially make costs skyrocket...
There is no Titan Regolith. No access to stone or any material we can use for soil. To get at this you need to drill into granite hard water ice... hundreds of feet. So while you can make a stilt habitat to avoid human activity actively melting out bedrock... you will likely need to dig deep pylons to rock or bury it anyways. Building in outcroppings is possible but now you have massively narrowed building site choices.
The need to import regolith for use in both building and cultivation is a huge disadvantage.
You still need domes, water production, heating, etc... mars and the moon have the same restriction but at least they have regolith.
Titan would better be a production colony with orbitals that house people and surface outposts for worker comfort and access. Hell... you could have a surface of telepresence workers or full automation instead.
Could we build artificial magnetic protection around the space craft and habitat area? Superconducting wire in coils ran around the habitat? That would seem like the best option for mars or the moon
BSCCO has a critical temperature of 108K, so that would be possible, but to get any kind of practical current, we'd still need liquid nitrogen.
There is also LaH10 that works at 250 K, but only at 1.7 million atmospheres of pressure.
if we're going to put the capsules on the surface, as opposed to finding a naturally occurring large lava tube, what you can do is just bury them (using robots). 🙂
Let's talk about this in 200-300 years from now on. Right now we are not even able to send people to the Moon.
What do you mean we aren’t able to send people to the moon? Choosing not to is a lot different than not being able to.
@@matthewhuszarik4173 right now nobody is able to safely send people to the Moon. Not NASA, not SpaceX, not China, not India, NO ONE. Imagining that we could send people to Titan with the technology we have now and in the next decades is totally unrealistic. For Mars we need at least another 100 years. For Titan significantly more.
@@3dfxvoodoocards6 Just let them think people went to the moon - it makes life easier to cope with for them
you mean, for permanent habitation?
So true
If you ask me we’ll inevitably colonize the Moon and Mars first since they’re closer, but it won’t be long before we colonize Titan and other moons of Jupiter and Saturn as well.
New Homestead in Starfield is exactly what you’re describing.
It would be like living in liquid carbon dioxide, unserviceable cold , just a miserable death trap.
In the near term, cloud cities in the upper atmosphere of Venus might be a better bet. Do a little asteroid mining for raw materials and water and just chuck it into the atmosphere of Venus. Parachutes and balloons could work for delivery systems in atmosphere. Robotic mining on the nightside of Mercury might also supply building materials. You could get water from the sulfuric acid clouds in the Venusian atmosphere, but it would be a chore.
Venus' soil bed is technically the clouds themselves. On Earth, the soil bed is at rest.
Venus atmosphere is mainly CO2 and H2SO4 which allows you to make water (H20) from electrolysis.
Getting nitrogen for air might be more of a chore.
@-whackd I know next to nothing about Chemistry, but doesn't the H2S04 need to be dissolved in water before the electrolysis takes place? So you would need water to make water? Is the H2S04 preferentially consumed before most of the water? While reading up on some chemical reactions that might be useful, I saw this one: "Carbon reacts with sulfuric acid to produce carbon dioxide and sulfur dioxide gas along with water. Sulfuric acid should be a concentrated, heated solution." Plenty of carbon(C02) and Sulfuric acid on Venus.
Cloud cities would be quite prone to accidents (or intentional sabotage), they're a cool idea but they'll always remain that.
@@THEBEEEANSS Well, at least we can agree it's a cool idea!
I think a giant ship orbiting in a goldilocks zone above venus makes the most sense. Put it just low enough to provide gravity and protect from radiation, run on solar and nuclear, grow plants inside for food and oxygen, close enough to earth for resupply, emergencies, and the ability to go back home if needed
You watch to many science fiction shows I suggest you turn off that brainwashing box in your front room for a couple years maybe you will wake up
(putting it low enough for gravity) would not work if the ship was orbiting. If the ship was not orbiting it would crash into Venus unless it had antigravity. If we have antigravity just use artificial gravity. Even without gravity control, just use big spinning drums.
@@vladimirsilver2633 orbiting could work
7:18 wid dat walk doe!
Whats the Celsius to Fahrenheit conversion formula again?
-292F
ouch!!!!!!@@Ellada0427
@@Ellada0427 thank you
I would think Saturn's radiation would make it almost impossible to colonize Titan.
eh?
@@ZygonesBzygones Magnetic fields traps high energy particles like in Earth's Van Allen belts.
Maybe in the future it'll just be easier to make our own planets. I wouldn't be surprised if AGI and fully-functional humanoid robots made this possible.
Going into space never ends well.
I believe that it may be possible to use different planets and moons to harvest their resources, that can supply large space stations throughout our solar system. We need faster and bigger ships that can also haul resources to and froe. I am a firm believer in the need to have very similar gravity as earth and that may be best created on rotating space habitats at least 1 km in diameter so they say. Imagine trying to build an underground spinning habitat underground on Mars? That might be like trying to build the Hoover Dam on earth. How to power that habitat? Mars has a gravity well, and is very hard to land ships of any kind on such as supply ships containing resources. This moon called Titan might be an excellent place to have a large Space Habitat that could house hundreds of thousands or more people. This habitat could be in space in orbit around the moon and be spinning to create gravity. There could also be a mining colony there to harvest that abundant Methane for fuel. It should be easy to get it off that planet with the low gravity well there. Water may also be harvested, but large amounts of water may be better harvested somewhere else and imported to that area to create drinking water and oxygen to burn the methane. This Methane may be able to be exported to a number of locations in the Solar system to be used for fuel to burn in space for energy. You wouldn't be sending it to Earth for a number of reasons, but there may be Space Habitats orbiting Earth that could use it.
Yes but some colonies could be robots 🤖
We don't need stations to be that large. And also those stations should be inside asteroids to protect from radiation
Not commenting to hate, but the opposite. This is the first video you've posted (that I'm aware of) that actually caught my attention due to the uniqueness of the topic, in awhile. Please keep posting around newish debatable talks 🙏🍿 Always sticking around though.
The video creator is still woefully ignorant on the science to which he discusses however.
@AF5IU Just because it did not fit your interpretation of what it was supposed to be, doesn't mean it's clickbait. He talked about the differences based off his opinion just like the title literally states.
@@timothyvanhoeck233 To say one is ignorant towards things without providing context is ignorant in itself, a safer approach to calling someone out. Please elaborate.
@@_GuzJ To start, he flat out mislabeled the moon as a "planet" within the first minute of the video. That automatically places red flags on the guy's credibility.
More importantly, he claims Titan isn't flammable due to a lack of oxygen, which may be true if Titan is left in its natural state, but in a video discussing the possibility of colonizing Titan, the fact he leaves out the glaring issue that in order to do so you would need to import vast amounts of oxygen onto the world, thereby risking a global catastrophe, is a pretty damn significant omission of inconvenient facts.
Add that to the additional oxygen produced via farming, and you may as well be planning to blow up and/or incinerate the entire freaking moon at that point.
@@_GuzJ It's the textbook definition of click-bait. Just because you're wowed by the above video doesn't make it not click-bait. If you truly knew anything about the topic to which the video creator discusses, you would instantly recognize that there are a number of glaring omissions made that are inconvenient to that which he's shilling.
with all that Ethane in the atmosphere, Titan hosts the ultimate Oktoberfest 🍻
at -180 C, power generation isn't just something to talk about for 30 secs, the instant anyone is on that moon, they are going to be going through an astronomical amount of power just to stay warm, mining, refining, smelting is going to take an insane amount of power even in standby to keep parts from shattering...
If traveling to other planets do become possible someday; I wonder how will people solve the problem, with the different types of levels of gravity on each one?
I also wonder how someone might figure out, how to deal with the different types of atmospheres, that are on each different type of planet?
Travel to other planets is possible. It’s just very expensive and very dangerous.
@@jk844100 I know it’s impossible to travel to other planets now, but I theorize four hundred years from now it might be possible to do.
I also theorize that majorly advanced spaceships might be made, and they might be designed with highly advanced self-defense machines installed in them.
I imagine the slight possibility of force-fields, laser-cannons, plasma-energy pulse guns, rocket bombs, and four different levels of flight speeds.
In addition I imagine the possibility of (cryogenic slumber pods) for the people on the spaceship to sleep in when on very long voyages.
Plus to add I imagine that (highly advanced terraforming machines) might be carried on those spaceships, in order to better adjust any planets’s atmosphere for the people to live on the planets their about to go on.
Space station crew adapt ok to lo g environment. It is coming back to Earth's harder gravity which f's them up. What if you never came back? Human biology, vis a vis evolution doesn't change fast enough. But, then again, humans are like cockroaches. We could find a way to adapt and change. Fun fact: sex would become synonymous with "bondage". You would have to use straps and restraints to get the job done!
I personally am in favor of building O'Neill cylinders in Earth Orbit as the next step. You got no hassle with terraforming or insulating against a hostile atmosphere and you got the shortest supply routes. If you use a small comet as a water source and an asteroid for building materials, you can save a lot of the construction costs. I have seen estimates that a cylinder could be built for 5-10k USD per sqm, around the same as a building in New York or Tokyo.
sorry, O'Neill cylinders were NEVER intended to be in Earth Orbit. (tidal forces would tear them apart). They were intended for the L4 position, which is far enough away to be relatively stable (which means they still need to have station keeping capability or they drift elsewhere... including falling into the Earth or into the Sun.
@@jessepollard7132 Yes, ofc I was thinking about the L-points. Especially L4 and L5.... which are in the exact same solar orbit as Earth. And anything inside is stable, just look at the Trojans and Greek asteroids caught in Jupiters L4 and L5. respectively.
But any cylinder needs a station keeping drive and control systems to keep its rotation stable, that also goes without saying,
Nevertheless, it will be easier to put a cylinder in such a relatively close point to Earth rather than terraform a planet or a moon an order of magnitude further away.
Thumbs up, but can you reference a description of, "comet water source" and "asteroid building material" ? How do you capture/control those?
@@Redmenace96 I got this from a decades old scifi story. Spacers were dependent on Earth and Earth charged a lot for water, so they took one of their spaceships, more or less docked it to a big chunk of ice in the rings of Saturn and offered water back to Earth for bargain prices 😛
This is utterly possible when you use a nuclear reactor (fission or fusion) as energy source and an ion drive. The water is not just for drinking but also coolant and rocket propellant.
It is possible to get to Saturn in a few weeks with current tech, if only you want to.
Or you take a lot longer, get a satellite with solar panels and some telescopic arms, again fly it out to Saturns rings, have it anchor itself to a frozen swimming pool worth of ice and do a minimal burn for a Homan transfer orbit. And if you got like a hundred of those satellites, you easily got sufficient ice coming in for any need.
And asteroids are similar and even easier to catch once you found them. Just don't choose the fastest ones.
The biggest problem in working on stuff in zero-g is recoil. But capturing things with telescope arms or some kind of net is possible and there was a mission a while back capturing an old satellite, so it got tried in space in the real world. And if you secure both sides, you can even drill or mill or smelt something, just capture any spalling.
Funny story about that is the "Live free or Die" / "Troy Rising" series by John Ringo.
He slaps an Orion drive on a big asteroid and got some tunnels inside and presto, you got a battlewagon that moves very slowly but got miles and miles of armor.
You can read the first few chapters on "baen" for free.
Titan 🪐will be a promising place for human beings to live in the future. I find the temperature problematic, since with new space rockets that travel faster, the distance problem will be solved.❤
What aboutEuropa? Can you make a video about colonising Europa, please? Thanx!
I feel like the moon being a "base of operations" for professionals, akin to a space station now, makes sense. Maybe a colony of hardcore pioneers to help make it more livable for long term stays, but beyond that, Titan is a much place for actual colonization and exploitation by "civilians".
We should name the moon base for Bill Kaysing.
I would tend to agree and think the moon should indeed be used as a live proving ground for planetary colonisation (setting up mock bases in deserts here on Earth isn't quite the same). At least get some of the basics sorted out: determine what works well, what will need improving, and things that don't work--I suspect there will be some oversights that people won't have foreseen. It'll be a smaller investment--and, certainly for any investors, a smaller loss in case it turns out that colonisation isn't a task that humans can realistically pull off... (The only way to find out, though, is to actually try...)
Radiation from the Sun and Space is understandable, but how are you going to deal with the Saturns radiation?
Well assuming for a second you literally don't know anything about Titan (which is fair most of the population doesn't) it was explained within the first 3 minutes of the video. Titan has an atmosphere. That combined with proper structures is going to alleviate the issue a lot.
and the -300F temperatures. Nitrogen would be the least of your problems trying to grow any plants. You would need to heat the greenhouse and have artificial light. This would use an enormous amount of fuel which you have none, the methane is useless without oxygen.
@@BrettonFerguson Bingo! Or you use nuclear power, lots of it, which suddenly gets to be an issue on a planet with no available fissile materials and a long, long supply chain back to Earth.
By far the biggest problem would be the low gravity and the effect it will have on human body on long term such as loss of muscle, bone density and so on.
Sounds great!
Let’s do both. Mars will teach us to live on Titan in some ways.
But the six to ten year one way voyage to Titan may be a dubious concept.
I suspect there's only one planet or moon in the solar system we'll ever be able to colonise and that's Earth. While technically we "might" be able to succeed with the technology we have now or develop in the future, the cost and obstacles are just too large. It's hard enough to live in Antarctica without being resupplied constantly and the obstacles on Mars and Titan are magnitudes higher. For a start Titan is -180 deg C. That's because it doesn't get enough energy from the Sun. And that's the major issue because super insulation would not work. You would always be losing heat to the atmosphere and you would need a large, constant energy supply to replenish that lost heat.
Not to mention that basic question of whether any human being would benefit in some way, personally, from being a "colonist".
We can and will but I feel sorry for the people who do.
The destination is not the only thing that matters. It's also the distance and way to get there. First you have to get through the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, then you need to avoid Jupiter itself and then manage to land on a planet that is surrounded by chunks of what not. And when you get there, you can forget about using solar panels since the Sun is now too far.
and the atmosphere too cloudy. The temperature so cold that metals are brittle and break.
Imagining a future where we expand beyond Earth is fascinating. AWAYS!
Moon, Mars, Titan, and so on-each does not necessarily invalidate the others. They present distinct challenges that we must address in our pursuit of becoming a multi-planetary species capable of thriving in space, on moons, planets, and beyond our solar system. Eventually, we will need to adeptly utilize resources and establish economic motives for planetary and asteroid exploration.
Great video ! A few corrections. Venus facts are outdated. The ESA discovered that Venus has cold zones. One near the pole its so cold its the coldest place in our solar system. And the pressure on Venus depends on elevation. Some mountain tops of Venus are comparable pressure to regions on Earth.
As a trucker, I've counted at least a dozen geoplanetary factors in high Wyoming and remote Nevada having it all over Mars. Water not factor 1.
But no one's there! We're overlooking the gorilla.
Earth has this habit of killing off everything at the top of the food chain. Some people are perfectly happy to pass that extinction threat on to future generations.
I would recommend viewing Isaac Arthur's video on colonizing Titan, and his outward bound series on just. How. Much. Work. Would be involved in this.
And some promising alternatives
Building over ice thats lime permafrost what about insulating with a thick layer of pycrete first then a wood or polymer like how they do with landfills and thst will hold your soil and channels for irrigation?