Atmospheric pressure and magnetosphere protection are big factors. Titan getting both right might ultimately be more workable. We can learn to get there faster. It may also be the most plausible to colonize with intelligent robots. We would possibly have robots build infrastructure before human habitation, since they need no oxygen. We need to increase our production of radioisotope thermoelectric generators!
Methane Rain Lyrics [Verse 1] Methane Rain We left Earth to find a new domain Methane Rain But Titan is not an easy terrain Methane Rain The atmosphere is thick and full of haze Methane Rain We have to wear suits to survive the days Methane Rain The gravity is low but still a drag Methane Rain We can’t fly or jump without a jetpack Methane Rain The surface is cold and covered with ice Methane Rain We have to drill and melt to reach the brine [Refrain] Methane Rain A moon of Saturn with a hidden sea Methane Rain Could it hold the secrets of life’s key? Methane Rain A moon of Saturn with a hidden sea Methane Rain Could it hold the secrets of life’s key? [Verse 2] Methane Rain We built a base near a giant lake Methane Rain But the weather is hard to forecast and track Methane Rain Sometimes it pours and floods our habitat Methane Rain Sometimes it’s dry and cracks our solar mat Methane Rain We try to study the chemistry and geology Methane Rain But the data is scarce and full of anomaly Methane Rain We wonder if there’s something alive down there Methane Rain But we don’t have the tools or the time to spare [Refrain] Methane Rain A moon of Saturn with a hidden sea Methane Rain Could it hold the secrets of life’s key? Methane Rain A moon of Saturn with a hidden sea Methane Rain Could it hold the secrets of life’s key? [Verse 3] Methane Rain We miss our home and our families Methane Rain But we can’t go back, we have to stay Methane Rain We are the pioneers of a new frontier Methane Rain We have to face the challenges and the fear Methane Rain We hope that one day we’ll make a breakthrough Methane Rain And find out what this moon can offer and do Methane Rain We dream of a future where we can thrive Methane Rain On this strange and distant world, we are alive [Refrain] Methane Rain A moon of Saturn with a hidden sea Methane Rain Could it hold the secrets of life’s key? Methane Rain A moon of Saturn with a hidden sea Methane Rain Could it hold the secrets of life’s key?
It takes small spacecraft 8 to 12 years to get to Titan. A spacecraft with many astronauts and all the supplies they need would go slower because it is larger. The astronauts would be 40 year old atrophied blind cripples by the time they arrived. The video keeps talking about the abundance of fuel on Titan. There is zero fuel without oxygen. It is minus 300 degrees. How would you keep warm? How would you grow plants? How would you feed the colony and replenish oxygen when there isn't enough light to grow plants of heat the greenhouse? Are you going to rely on huge supply ships arriving every year when they will take 20 years to travel that distance? All of this may be possible someday, but it certainly will not be easier than Mars.
The biggest problem with Titan isn't the atmosphere but the Distance. It takes way too long to get there in order to get into orbit (2,000 days or 5 1/2 years) and that is an huge hurdle to get over. By comparison it takes about 7 months to reach Mars, which is a much more viable option and easier. In addition, if you want to turn around and come back you only have to wait 3 months to do so. Going to Jupiter and coming back would take 11 years (way too long). Sure we could get to Jupiter in a little over year but we can't land there because we would be going so fast, all we could do is just fly by and defeats the whole point of going there. Mars is the most viable option right now and radiation isn't a problem if we use the inflatable modules Sierra Space is building. Although, Mars does have pockets of Magnetic fields (due to the rock structures) and perhaps it would be suitable to build setup the inflatable modules in those areas. Also complaining about going to Mars and having to live underground but then claiming to go to Titan where you will never ever see the sun is rather funny. At least on Mars you'll be able to go outside for short periods of time with a space suit and see the sun.
You forgot to mention Titan's hydrocarbon abundance, which would make bringing any sizeable amount of oxygen to the world a megadisaster waiting to happen.
Tidal forces from Saturn would need to be addressed. There may be massive moonquakes almost constantly because of it which would make building things hard.
Dude you need to wake up from your imagination pretend science fiction dream you talk like you been to Saturn wake up Nobody has and never will it’s fabricated science fiction movie. Wake up
I think the prospect of seeing Saturn in the sky, looking so huge, is what attracts people to Titan, but the atmosphere is supposed to be so thick and hazy that Saturn would seldom be very visible.
Anyone who built on siberian permafrost knows that building on ice brings on a whole new engineering challenge. Underground structure and soil cultivation immediately goes out the window, as heating up the ground would melt or sublimate it. You need to build everything, including your farm, on top of an air gapped structure, and that does not sound easy at all.
@@nimblehuman yup, it's so insanely cold I very much doubt an insulated human-built structure would even make a dent in the iron-hard icy crust. Just mining that ice would be challenge enough, not like you could just go out with an ice-pick and get yerself a cup to melt for your coffee 😅. Also I don't think there is anything that counts as 'soil' for growing anyway. All crop cultivation would likely be soilless and hydroponic. Even farming on Mars would be more complex than just making soil from regolith since the martian 'soil' is full of perchlorates toxic to plant life. It would need heavy processing to make it viable.
They already need to build completely sealed habitats. They aren't going to melt the ice without having catastrophic levels of heat loss for the habitat. I think the basic concept is already more difficult than building on Siberian permafrost. This is also why such a colony would need intensive support and shipping income in order to thrive at first, and it could be decades if not centuries before that colony produced enough goods to be even financially self-reliant.
Como veo son inexpertos como conocedor de la Antártida acá al lado con campo magnético agua aire ...se vuelven locos para soportar ... no sean tontos aprendan a .vivir en paz acá científicos inexpertos
@@frbrable and the ability to generate a powerful magnetic field around any spacecraft to act like a portable Van Allen belt to protect the crews from most of the radiation.
@@no2party you don't HAVE to do a magnetic field. "Time, distance, shielding". Make the vehicle go as fast possible, and put as much shielding as you can. It can be just a thick layer of water. Though I would add that a magnetic sail, if pointed toward the sun, will accelerate you away without having to expend fuel, so there is that. 🙂
Moon first. _Then_ Titan! True that distances to Titan are at this point technologically challenging. However colonizing the moon first would help us overcome certain technological hurdles and give us experience in the processes needed to develop infrastructure for colonial endeavors.
For sure! We could do it if there was the political and social climate that was conducive to the Great Effort made for the Gemini/Mercury/Apollo initiatives and technology drivers generated in getting to the Moon. But for now, we are stuck in a post industrial cesspool of internecine nationalistic warfare and oligarchical preeminence. @@johnnypottseed
The moon is probably no-go for us, because humans don't do too well in microgravity. There are all sorts of theoretical solutions to a lot of the other problems like radiation, but none at all for low or no gravity. That's why Mars may be our only shot, and if it turns out humans don't do well in Martian gravity either (38% of Earth's), we may never be able to expand off the planet.
@@CaptainOverkill It depends on mission duration. A crew can do a lot in a month or two where physical conditioning In-situ creates conditions for success, and is not a deal-breaker at all. Mars might be a good option after colonizing, industrializing, and exploring the moon wherein processes for such endeavours will be refined. Most people also discount the advent of technological advances that make current challenges less problematic especially when in concordance with national scientific objectives and technology drivers. The Moon is the only doable and reasonable next step into exploring the solar system.
Theres a reason nobody lives in Antarctica. Titans is well over 100 degrees colder and only gets 1 percent of the sunlight earth gets. It would be a crazy challenge to keep any machine from freezing. Its not a realistic choice with our current technology but its fun to imagine. Either way you need to live need to live in some dome meaning you might as well live on mars. Its still a better choice.
Uh, people do live in Antarctica, year round, no less. Although I would propose anyone thinking of living on Mars spend a full year minimum in Antarctica, because if you can’t cut it there you have no business being on Mars.
@@Ravege98 almost all the people that live here are researchers and scientists. You could easily populate Antarctica, but we don't do it because of the less than ideal conditions. Same reason as why barely anyone will colonise other planets/satellites.
One point the video is making is that "living in some dome" isn't enough on Mars. You'd have to live underground. The dome only works on Titan. Mars is a poor choice of world in general. It's just easier to get to.
@@insertname9736 we also dont do it because of several treaties and geopolitical conflicts over the land. I think that if it were an option, lots of people would go there to see what they could exploit.
@peterkirby7546 maybe more people hired by companies will go there, but I doubt many civilians will want to live permanently in Antarctica. Especially with the very long day-night cycle.
Titan is my favourite body in the solar system but I have seen NASA talk about how it is much easier to survive no magnetic field at all than it is to survive Saturn's (and especially Jupiter's) magnetic field interacting with their satellites so I still think Mars is first on the list.
Titan is pretty far out in the Saturnian system. It's not close in like the Galilean moons of Jupiter. So radiation levels will be much less, and mitigated by the thick atmosphere.
I'm not an advocate for Titan, but I'll point out that while on Earth, in terms of mass, there are 10 tons of atmosphere over each square metre, on Titan there's a hundred tons of atmosphere over each square metre of the surface.
Your two biggest issues are the lack of gravity which degrades the human body and then it comes to growing food in radiated regolith, which would have to be processed and filtered with enormous refineries for a very long time and injected with bacteria before it could be called soil (the movie The Martian is full of shit ;) which along with ability to control gravity are technologies we do not yet posses nor are likely to for many decades (if we last that long).
@@1ManNamedDan Would be easier just to bring tonnes of high quality soil than to bring the machinery and equipment to build refineries to process the regolith into low quality soil. Unless we could make the refineries with automated robots, but Titan is not exactly metal rich.
@@astralclub5964 This isn't true. Mars actually is warm in the summer near the equator, with highs of about 70F, but it can get hotter. The problem is, the atmosphere is thin, so heat escapes easily. It gets down to -100F at night. However, the winters can be a whopping -200C. The coldest temperature ever recorded in Antartica was -136F in 2010, which is colder than the best days on mars at night.
O'Neill Cylinders are the sound colonization options. The small moons and asteroids are for resources. The system's planets and moons are for scientific research facilities. Titan could eventually act as the outer solar system's industrial powerhouse due to its plentiful nitrogen and hydrocarbons.
By the time humans start getting serious about widely colonizing the outer moons and planets of the solar system, Helium-3 refineries orbiting Jupiter and Saturn will probably be supplying nearly all of the fuel for spacecraft and colonies.
@@BrianWelch-vc7xy Achieving workable, portable, affordable fusion is the real game changer. I think it would have such a profound impact across the board that we can barely imagine how it would change our civilization.
@@vladimirsilver2633 I agree with some of the planets... Mercury and Venus, for instance. Those that are remotely livable, however... should be lived on at least until we find better options.
Great video. The only other downside is that daylight on the surface would be 1% that on Earth; dark twilight at its brightest! -180 deg C is a major problem tho, again to get warmer one would have to go deep underground to get some geothermal energy. At 15% the gravity, muscle wasting would be another issue. - Best option in my view is still to build a few descent sized mobile rotating space stations, and place them in orbits around places like the Moon, Venus Mars, Ganymede, Titan, Titania, Triton (thats 7 sounds like a good number).. my wish list for 2200, LOL
Major problem? you mean LIFE ENDING PROBLEM. humans can not build anything useful on titans surface. humans could probably build something useful UNDER titans surface, where there is probably already life anyway. and being under the surface means the radiation is blocked by the surface anyway so titans atmosphere is not that useful. it may in fact be better for humans to aim for a smaller underice ocean like Enceladus because there is no atmosphere to content with when coming down from orbit, and the ocean is a lot more shallow so you can reach reasonable temperature depths without as much water pressure on top of you.
Rotating space stations would need to solve the cosmic radiation problem. Even without shelter, being at the surface of a planetary body cuts the cosmic radiation exposure in half. The upper atmosphere of Venus could be another interesting place to go. Plenty of solar energy, plenty of carbon, tolerable temperature and pressure, and air is a buoyant gas there.
It seems to me that you would need to keep an even higher air pressure in a habitat to prevent the intrusion of methane where it would mix with oxygen with disastrous results. Also any failure in heating of a space suit or habitat would result in instant freezing.
Failure of a heating source does not usually result in instant freezing. Your initial heat ( at the point of failure) will take some time to reduce to water freezing temps, depending on the insulating properties of your suit.
@@jackieking1522 , The temperature on Titan is nearly -300 degrees F. If a spacesuit heating failure occurred the poor guy would be a block of ice in mere seconds.
"Is there anyone among you that want to go to a brand new world only to spend the rest of your life in an underground tunel?" I AM A DWARF AND I'M DIGGING A HOLE
Gentle reminder that dwarves aren't real, unless we are speaking of Achondroplasia and the like, which as a set do not also induce a predilection for dwelling underground, despite popular fiction. What you are thinking of is Welshmen.
Mars is closer, the moon even closer than that, and you can use non nuclear detonations to clear out large chasms- far from living in a tunnel. Besides, minus teraforming atmosphere wise, we've pretty much changed the face of our planet covering kilometers. Manmade lakes, hollowing out limestone mountains, salt mines, all such methods could be used for purposes of excavation on mars.Engineers would be able to come up many ways to solve the problems planetary engineering. Both on mars, and titan. Personally, I'd like titan to be colonized too- it would be spectacular to see saturn, the ringed glory rising in its skies.
@@Flipnotic64 , look at buckeye lake in Ohio, St. Mary's lake in the same state- the lake in Russia which in this case was formed by a nuke. Using these methods on another world is what's fiction, now.
We should start with a moon. Focus on mining robots, and 3d printing. Then Create bigger and bigger constructions, finally habitating our own Moon. With that experience we will be reaady to go further - any direction.
One advantage: the buildings dont need to be pressurized. They just need to separate the internal and external atmospheres, that can be kept on the same pressure. Structures could be build as large tents (support frames and some layers of heat-isolating foil).
If there was an easy method of generating a lot of atmosphere, and energy wasn't a huge problem, they could just be kept at a slightly higher pressure than the surrounding atmosphere so any leaks leak out and not in. Would mean building standard could be relatively crude and not overly complex and stringent. Building standard would be more comparable to standards for a hospital/lab on earth than for other space colonies.
1:08 You'd have to live that way regardless because to date we've yet to find a world similar to our own in terms of size, mass, temperature and atmospheric composition and thickness, around a star similar to our own that is neither too active nor advanced in terms of stellar ageing. Also, you'd need a crap ton of oxygen, which would be catastrophic on a hydrocarbon-rich world like Titan (you may as well be planning to blow the entire Saturnian moon up).
Sure we have. Venus is sufficiently similar to Earth. The problem is people perceive planets as being entirely homogenous, static, & relatively non-complex celestial objects; where, to settle one, you're going to need a fairly large amount of relatively high quality land, with a good layer of topsoil if you can find it & preferably some indigenous folk that can be easily captured & given something useful to do because space colonizing is difficult work & occasionally you'll want to kick back & bask in the warm alien sun -- although no lemonade & you'll have to p*** yourself because that alien atmosphere isn't going to be oxygenated & even if it were, with our weak & frail & pathetic bodies only partly compatible with the planet Earth, you'll be wearing some form of spacesuit that provides an optimum internal human environment...everything needed except for a means to expel one's own s*** & p***; for that, there will be an integrated a diaper into the suit. BUT! That seems entirely apt! IF we're going to think & act like young toddlers when it comes to colonizing other worlds, THEN it's only fitting that we should have to p*** & s*** ourselves like young toddlers too. Venus' atmosphere contains the most Earth-like conditions than anywhere else in our solar system, except for the Earth itself. Venus is closer than Mars meaning astronauts can travel there & back & not exceed their maximum tolerable excess dosage of radiation simply by being in transit. Venus has more frequent launch windows for supplies or for emergency assistance to realistically be deliverable. Venus' gravity is very close to our own on Earth which is important because your body won't start consuming itself, acclimating down to a low G Mars environment that will never allow you to return to Earth if you go there. Venus' atmosphere is doubly protective against radiation -- for one, Venus actually has an atmosphere; that in itself is a big plus for reducing exposure to radiation. & Two, the density & energy driving atmospheric conditions on Venus is enough to generate a modest magnetic field protecting the planet at least from having its atmosphere ripped off by constant high-energy solar bombardment. Venus is a hot planet & Venus is a corrosive environment & Venus is a very dense planet. Its average surface level is extreme. It does have continents with better conditions, but still quite extreme. If you travel up into the atmosphere, at approx. 50Km, 1 Earth atmosphere is buoyant. Temperatures will have fallen to a human tolerable range. & The clouds of sulfuric acid are reduced substantially. These conditions, we already have the tech necessary to cope. Indeed, we have the technological foundations to potentially cope with surface conditions of Venus. That's why a colony in Venus' atmosphere is so superior to the surface of Mars -- Venus actually has stuff; a lot of that stuff isn't yet accessible; & a lot of people would really like to check that stuff out. Venus offers the drive for research & technological development that sets the bar so high, once we have fully developed technology to cope with the surface conditions of Venus, at the same time, we will have developed the technology that opens the exploration of nearly all other celestial bodies that also contain stuff (not the irradiated hell hole that is Mars, nor the gas giants...). & As a species, we really can't get enough stuff! & Since Mars is not only just radically impractical for colonization, but it is also severely lacking any stuff, I don't see any reason to kill astronauts in an attempt to land them there. Instead, I'd rather them live in the atmosphere of Venus & then return home to Earth whenever the next transit window comes around. The return home would be simple, they wouldn't step out of their return vehicle turned into freaks of nature barely able to survive once again on Earth; they would be safe & normal & they could go on to live their lives & they could rest easy, knowing they have contributed greatly to the advancement of our species.
@@j.macjordan9779 I appreciate the effort you put into writing all this, but there is so much wrong here and I don't have the energy to unpack it all. ChatGPT does though: Venus' atmosphere is not the most Earth-like in the solar system; its surface conditions are extremely hostile, with high temperatures and pressures. Venus' atmosphere does not offer significant protection against radiation; it lacks a global magnetic field like Earth's. The concept of Venus having "continents with better conditions" is misleading; Venus' surface is uniformly extreme and inhospitable. The idea of Venus having a modest magnetic field is incorrect; Venus does not have an intrinsic magnetic field like Earth. The technology to cope with Venus' surface conditions is not currently as advanced as suggested; we are far from establishing a colony there. The claim that Mars lacks "stuff" (resources) is inaccurate; Mars has various resources that could support colonization efforts. The assertion that colonizing Venus would be simpler and safer than Mars is speculative and overlooks the significant challenges of Venusian colonization. The notion that astronauts returning from Venus would be "safe and normal" oversimplifies the health challenges associated with long-duration space travel. The statement that Mars is "radically impractical for colonization" ignores ongoing research and development efforts aimed at making Mars colonization feasible. The idea that we already have the technology to cope with conditions 50km up in Venus' atmosphere is optimistic; current technology is not yet at this level. Ultimately, Mars has water, Venus doesn't. That's why we're not going to Venus for the next century, it's expensive to send supplies over.
@SPCv4 - I generally don't converse with machines; they are wrong on arrival because they are not intelligent. ChatGPT, especially, is quite inferior to any Human of any intelligence - I've never been able to break a Human within 5min of merely speaking words...or typing words in ChatGPTs case. ChatGPT is built as static code designed to sort biased data & regurgitate it out in a manner the majority find acceptable, & whether it be true or not because ChatGPT, once prompted, can't help but not shut the f*** up! It is not AI; it is not intelligent; & its relevancy to the discussion at hand is non-existent. Is it any surprise that it told you exactly what you wanted to hear? I don't think so. Remember, ChatGPT is built by a company founded by a Man who has made it his life's ambition to put Human Beings (excluding himself) on Mars. So, once again, ChatGPT is wrong on arrival...& in more ways than just one. Now, as for Venus not having water - this is incorrect. Venus has water vapor in its atmosphere. We've known this longer than we've known of any water on Mars. We've detected & extracted Water from the atmosphere of Venus before on more than one occasion. & I would still argue that going to Venus is far less expensive than going to Mars - Venus has even been suggested as a preferable target destination in transiting to Mars! & I would argue that the ROI in going to Venus instead of Mars makes Mars seem rather irrelevent in the grand scheme of things...(?) So, I appreciate the non-effort in responding to my effort, but I suppose we'll just have to disagree here...I guess I just don't know what else to say... In my opinion, reason & rationality & logic are the better tools for approaching where our Species might venture an evolutionary leap & succeed in doing so within our solar system; &, in your opinion, ChatGPT is the better tool for doing the same...(?)
If you think about it the number of factors that make Earth quite habitable is quite surprising. Assuming they’re all independent - they’re not exactly - statistics will tell you it’s unlikely as “and” items are multipliers. Take fractions less than one and multiply them all and it will go to zero quickly. But finding another ready-made planet for us humans is no easy feat. I’ll bet the nearest one that meets most our needs is light years away.
I agree, it would be better to perfect our own planet before trying to colonise another. At the moment we are destroying it. The fact that we cannot sustain this planet with all that is given to us, says to me we would not be able to sustain any other. We really have to get our own house in order first.
There are no other places in our solar system that are innately suitable for human life. The nearest solar system is 4 light years away. So yeah, light years away. That said, space is big on a scale we cannot possibly fathom. So while it may be statistically unlikely for an individual solar system to have an earth-like planet, its likely there are many millions of them in our universe.
It's fairly easy to make a livable space in space though … you know, within the context of living in space. You just have to use rotation as replacement for gravity. If you make the shell out of steel enforced pykrete, for instance, then you have the radiation shield along with a very strong structure. So if only we could find a way to get large amounts of water into space, a lot would be done. But this also means that we could have such a habitat in orbit around Mars or Titan, so that we could have quick and easy access to the surface, while living comfortably in orbit.
We currently have two astronauts stranded on the space station. Imagine trying to rescue people from Titan. It takes years to get there and years to get back.
I honestly think it has to do with the fact that there is no solid ground the entire surface is just glaciers that sit on top a sea, not only that but the glaciers are being constantly shifted by the gravitational pull of Jupiter meaning you can really build anything perminate on it
Ganymede is radioactive due to Jupiter, being ~4 times the safe dosage from radiation sickness (ignore cancer). On the other hand, Callisto has a dose of a mere 0.1mSv, which is safe enough for humans to live on.
What is the difference between having to stay indoors/underground because of cold and unbreathable atmosphere and having to stay indoors/underground because of cold, unbreathable atmosphere and radiation?
Unless you're building something in existing underground caverns, then you would have to excavate first. That means heavy machinery would be required, increasing the difficulty in creating habitats. For Mars, you'd need to find very large caverns or lava tubes to make underground bases practical in the near term. Transporting a boring machine and getting it to function on alien geology is a challenge unto itself - even here on Earth it isn't that simple
Because Titan has the resources capable of changing that condition. On Mars, it will never (not on any meaningfully short time line) change. Titan supplies enough energy that humans would figure it out and alter it.
@@cylontoaster7660 "For Mars, you'd need to find very large caverns or lava tubes to make underground bases practical in the near term. " Those lava tubes are known to exist already, so this isn't really a barrier on Mars. 🙂 On titan, you don't necessarily have to be underground, but it's much further away than Mars, which is a barrier, and it's more likely to currently have life, which would be an ethical issue to some extent. 🙂
Titan 🪐will be a promising place for human beings to live in the future. I find the temperature problematic, since with new space rockets that travel faster, the distance problem will be solved.❤
This is the debate what the smaller step is.. there are arguments why Mars may be easier than Moon, since you have way more resources in your vicinity. The biggest problem with Mars is tough, you need again rocket to come back up, and for it you'd need to be able to make fuel there.. taking the fuel for the return trip with you is not feasible... a one way trip would be doable now.. only no one (as in a space program financing this, not some lunatic) wants to.
@@georgelionon9050 yeah, and taking off from Titan takes only slightly more than leaving the Moon, but there are the materials to make fuel for the return trip. And the flight (without gravity assists from Jupiter) would take only 50% more than one to Mars. And the flight to Mars is getting to LEO, and then the rest.
The first colony being on our moon just seems like such a no brainer. Creating literally a jumping off point to the rest of our solar system. Its only two weeks away, you build it on the dark side of the moon to limit solar radiation. Power it with a solar tower, which given the gravity of the moon, is an easy fabrication and maintenance object. While one does have to accept that there is little in the way of resources on the moon, and certainly minimal amounts of terrestrial study to be undertaken, there will still be a mountain of space data to consume. And in the end of the day, it will be a way station Lets start with a doable, feasible and safer colony before we let our britches get to big.
@@thecocktailian2091 there is no "dark" side of the moon, there is one said that never faces earth.. but that does mean little to solar radiation. And it certainly not a no brainer, the advantage of a moon is that is relatively close, but thats all about that. The question still is open if this means any meaningful, why need that stop? It is debatble, but certainly not a "no brainer"..
@@georgelionon9050 well im certainly no cosmologist, so I shall leave it to you and your decades of scientific research and education. But from my arm chair commanders seat and my 100's of hours playing No Mans Sky, no brainer for me.
I am not even sure it would be possible to stand upright on Titan currently. How cold is it? Even if you had a suit that could stand the cold..the surface contact point with the suit would have a heat difference and the reaction would be worse than standing on the most slippery of ices.
Even if we had a solution to those problems, there's one major glaring issue that a lot of people seem not to recognize with Titan in particular. Titan is a world dominated by hydrocarbons, both in terms of atmospheric content as well as surface fluid and precipitation. And the problem with that is humans need oxygen to breathe and food to eat, both of which would normally come from plants via farming. But that in and of itself risks the possibility of a planet-wide catastrophe, because the moment oxygen mixes with hydrocarbons or vice versa, it's only a matter of time before a chain reaction is set off resulting in a deadly explosion.
I wonder if a lander experiment is in order… containing a fungus or tube worm colony, not requiring photosynthesis, with an RTG to keep it warm, exposed to small amounts of warmed Titan atmosphere, and a robot gardener in attendance- could it survive?
You may not need to be underground, but it might not be a bad idea to be at least partially submerged. I mean weather could still damage things, and you could have failed pressure seals from fatigue of use. You would still want multiple redundant seals and enclosures between the people and the outside. Seasons and weather in general also means materials will expand and contract as the temperatures change, and that could be a problem over a long period of time.
I agree with you, but he did end by saying "probably in a matter of centuries". I think Rotating space stations with water protecting the occupants is the answer. We can send robots to get resources from such distant places. The Moon, Mars and the asteroid belt should be able to provide most of what we want in space though. No one will want to live permanently on any of these bodies. However, we could return the Earth to a more habitable place for life in general if we can put most industry and food production off world. @@Christobanistan
I still think floating habitats on Venus would be a fun and workable trial for extra-planetary exploration. You can have floating habitats at around 30ish miles up, and still maintain protection from radiation with the thick atmosphere above you. The habitat could ride the winds and circle the planet every 48 hours giving a reasonable day/night cycle. You have close to Earth gravity and ample access to solar and wind generated power. The big problem of course is access to materials, and that we need improved marerials that can withstand sulfuric acid clouds. But damn it would be fun!
@@paulmichaelfreedman8334 IDK, kind of a reverse of "It's not the fall that kills you, it's the landing." one level up. We've had buoyancy mastered for over a thousand years. It's more steering and structural integrity that are the problems. Yes, the Hindenberg, the Titanic, and the Challenger all sank back to their local density equilibria but everyone involved in every place was having a very bad day well before any lack of altitude became an issue.
@@adamlucas4753 Well, I'd agree with you normally but the fact of the matter is that if you were to fall into the atmosphere of Venus you'd be melted and cooked and reduced to carbon residue before you hit the ground. Seems quite painful to me. Oh and due to the atmosphere being 90 times denser, in the lower atmosphere where the sulphuric acid concentration is highest, your terminal velocity would be like floating to the ground, very slowly, at most tens of kilometers per hour. Your cooked and compressed sludge would hit the ground at a speed you normally would not die from. Like how snow falls to the ground.
@@paulmichaelfreedman8334 You'd normally agree with me but, like an idiot who didn't understand a word I wrote, you'd prefer to restate in concrete detail *precisely* what I said? I know you always want to be right, but you've contradicted yourself and you can't have it both ways. So, which is it, is buoyancy an issue or would "Your cooked and compressed sludge hit the ground at a speed you normally would not die from." because, just like with the Titanic or the Hindenburg being more buoyant doesn't prevent you from being cooked or frozen to death (or dissolved) even if you maintain buoyancy/altitude. We have ships today that have been floating for over a century, when they sink, they predominantly don't sink from a leak or spontaneous rupture nearly as often as they strike something or are struck or experience turbulence/shear forces that their structure wasn't meant to withstand. None of which is solved or even addressed by buoyancy issues and which is addressed by steering and or better structural design.
Titan has ALWAYS been a big favourite from me, just the fact that you wouldn’t die from burning, drowning, crushing or ripping. You die mostly from lack of oxygen. We only need to fix temperature and oxygen and it would be an instant home.
poor old Terra is just too hospitable, she all but demands to be abused and ravaged Titan, Mars and Luna will promptly kill you if you do not watch your ecology closely
Nothing lasts forever. The countless extinctions and the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs should be a testament to that. Having all humanity in one basket assures our end.
How do you burn methane and ethane though when there's no oxygen? And how do you fix the nitrogen in the air to organic compounds in large scale when there's no liquid water available on the surface?
Generate oxygen through electrolysis of water with fusion energy. You fix nitrogen from methane though the use of methanotrophic bacteria with also generate CO2. CO2 can be used to grow plants for food and more oxygen which you can breath with or use to burn more fuel.
Minor quibble - you referred to Titan's methane and ethane as an abundant fuel supply. They are only fuel here due to Earth's oxygen-rich atmosphere. On Titan they are pretty much inert unless you want a supply of hydrogen for nuclear propulsion.
Or just bring oxygen with you, although you'd need to replenish the supply and that means water mining and splitting, which is a very energy intensive process. Since Solar is in short supply out there, geothermal is a slim possibility (Titan has "Cryo-volcanism") and unless you can make enough energy burning hydrocarbons USING Oxygen made from splitting ICE to make enough power to PRODUCE Oxygen from splitting ICE (Hint: You can't :( ), you'd probably need something like a small nuclear reactor/thorium reactor. You could even design jet aircraft that carry Oxygen onboard in place of fuel and intake Methane from the environment instead of Oxygen. Neat huh?
They would harvest oxygen from Titan's large reserve of frozen water underground . Then use electrolysis by putting a electric current through water to separate the H2 and O from each other to get oxygen . You'll need to have nuclear reactors to supply electricity for the colony etc to be more efficient and use methane as spaceship fuel to travel between moons for other resources , for aircraft and land vehicles too. The hydrogen can be used to fill up airships to move people and cargo across the planet which will be easier since it has lower gravity and no oxygen in atmosphere to catch on fire making it easier to work. Saturn's moon Enceladus has phosphorus to use , also deuterium and helium 3 for nuclear fuel for electricity and long range spaceships .
I think in time we should colonize or at least set up a colony or at least a space station in just about every planet and or moon. The moon, Mars, and Venus are the best places to start because they need to be starting points to help us get to other planets / moons.
@@goldfing5898 The key to Venus right now is living in the atmosphere in cloud cities until our technology advances enough to be able to go there comfortably. maybe in a couple 100 years we'll be able to terraform the planet or we'll the shield technology or ways to adapt and be able to oi there.
Titan lacks enough gravity and phosphorus. Yikes! To be fair, you could build spinning habitats and may be lucky to find reserves of phosphorus on Titan or nearby moons, asteroids etc.
There is a much bigger problem than there being low gravity. Considering it'd take around a decade to reach titan. Not only would it be impossible to respond to an emergency. No astronaut has ever spent close to 10years in space, and even when people return from long stays in space they can't walk immediately after returning to earth. And its safe to say that when anyone makes it to titan in a nearby hypothetical mission they would have nobody around to teach them how to walk again.
@@clarko-ow5oq I'm just saying Terraforming mars is a waste of time when we can Colonize the outer planets for a longer time frame Mars has too many problems to Terraform
Considering Titan gets 1% of the sunlight the Earth gets I doubt it would be much of a sunrise. At that point it might as well be just another star in the sky.
I like the idea that you could send a colony there and it would be self sufficient, you wouldn't have to be resupplied by earth like you would on mars or the moon.
@@Christobanistanwe genuinely have no idea. We might be able to work it out. The issue I have is that I don't see why you would expect access to building materials. There will be mountains, but probably made of ice. I don't think a colony would have access to enough mineral material to be self sufficient and grow, and I don't see any economic advantages to going there. At best it would be a penal colony, but even those were expected to be self sufficient.
I like the idea of floating cities in the upper atmosphere of venus. At the right altitude you've got 80 degrees Fahrenheit and about the same gravity as well as being a planet away.
@@davidsnow2653 We're talking "floating", not "orbiting". A venus-atmospheric floating city wouldn't be going anywhere near as fast as orbit, and the gravity felt by those aboard it wouldn't be much different than Venus' 8.97m/s^2.
@@tehScribbles Mars has just a tad over 1/3 the gravity of earth. A 200lb. man would weigh around 70 lbs. Not even close to livable long term. All kinds of bad health outcomes. I don't see any human colonies anywhere....perhaps a research station on the moon, 'cause it's a few days away...anything else is a suicide mission I'd say. With the advances now made with A.I., we could send up terminator style robots to do the dirty work for us. Best case scenario. Next century we might have better tech for human colonies... but clearly not quite yet.
I loved the depiction of the various options for colonisation I. "The expanse". I suspect though that anything more than an outpost will require major AI robotic geoengineering. In that context Mars is easier because of the solar power. Though if there was a way to reduce venus' atmosphere by fixing the carbon, the woukd be best
@@taketwo_duo The same kinds of reasons people on Earth traveled to and colonized other lands in human history. The desire to escape from persecution, to find new room to expand and grow their tribe, to obtain more resources, etc.
Venus' problem isn't the carbon dioxide, it's the sheer volume of the total atmosphere. As an example, I point to Mars, which has more CO2 in its atmosphere than we do (about double the volume)... and yet it doesn't really do anything for the temperature. (Mars and Venus both have 95% CO2 atmospheres, though Mars' has WAY less total volume of everything.) If you want to cool Venus, you have physically remove a large chunk of its atmosphere entirely, which would be difficult because the gravity obviously wants to keep it there. Actually, plant life could manage the job, too... if you could keep them alive long enough. But that would be quite the trick in that heat/pressure.
Venus is actually an interesting place as far as a possible colony goes. Not the surface. But some parts of the atmosphere could actually be used by air ships. In Theory.
@@Christobanistan That might actually be even the most important aspect. People often glance over it like as it doesn't mean anything. But when you lookt at it in detail the low gravity on Mars would actually be a very serious problem. And one that's not easy to overcome. Almost everything could be, in theory, solved. Radiation, dust, lack of water and very low temperatures. But low gravity? That's a tough nut to crack because our biology can not adjust to it.
@@Christobanistan I am not so sure about that. "Abstract It is well known that long-term exposure to microgravity causes a number of physiological and biochemical changes in humans; among the most significant are: 1) negative calcium balance resulting in the loss of bone; 2) atrophy of antigravity muscles; 3) fluid shifts and decreased plasma volume; and 4) cardiovascular deconditioning that leads to orthostatic intolerance. It is estimated that a mission to Mars may require up to 300 days in a microgravity environment; in the case of an aborted mission, the astronauts may have to remain in reduced gravity for up to three years. Although the Soviet Union has shown that exercise countermeasures appear to be adequate for exposures of up to one year in space, it is questionable whether astronauts could or should have to maintain such regimes for extremely prolonged missions. Therefore, the NASA Life Sciences Division has initiated a program designed to evaluate a number of methods for providing an artificial gravity environment." pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11536970/#:~:text=It%20is%20well%20known%20that,plasma%20volume%3B%20and%204)%20cardiovascular We're talking about long term exposure here. Like having eventually a colony. Spending eventually years on the surface with low gravity. And the longer the exposure is, the more difficult is it to counter it. And the effects can be very severe over time. It definetly will be a serious problem for any long term mission. Leave alone "living" in such conditions.
We could have solar powered airships growing food and producing oxygen right now 38 miles above the surface of Venus. NASA already has an unfunded program: HAVOC.
Exactly. Especially when you consider the ability to live in underground tunnels on Mars which helps with radiation and could potentially provide water from ice. Plus, we can always magnify the sunlight coming down into the tunnels through creative ways.
Seems kinda odd to be honest. Why wouldn’t we just build a space colony in orbit of our current planet that is custom fitted for our survival and comfort rather then trying to live in rat tunnels underground on a hostile to all life environment that is billions of miles away?
@@Rykojames cost, area potential, breathing room, resource allocation, natural resources needed for long term survivability, and another few hundred examples we can list to you if needed. Really think about your question and why it’s a terrible idea compared to opening a colony on Mars, moons around Jupiter and Saturn, etc instead. Planets and moons provide tons of resources, protection from radiation, etc whereas building an orbital station requires taking and finding all the resources needed to that station to build. Just take water and radiation protection as two examples. Do you get what we’re saying on why opening and growing a base on Mars is smarter in terms of a human colony?
@@ttrestle I have thought about it.. Which is why I can't think of a single reason why it makes any sense to colonize a planet ever.. Even if it was an exact clone of Earth. I think you might be having a misunderstanding of the difference between what a "colony" and an "outpost" is... Of course it makes sense to create mining outpost to gather resources off them. I'm not sure how you can suggest cost is in the favor of colonizing planets over orbital space colonies.. Every single cost that is required to build a space colony would be required to building habitat on an uninhabitable planet.. Except you have to 100x all of it for the cost of fuel to transport it all billions of miles instead of just having it in orbit. You need all of the same stuff to colonize an uninhabitable planet as you do to make a space station... Except on top of it you also need to have protection against earth quakes, bad weather, and other natural disasters that come along with being on a planet. Area potential? Are you serious? There is enough room in our orbit around the sun alone for like 18,000 planet sized space colonies.. And several billion within the entirety of the 3D habitable zone of our solar system. And they would all be in our back yard instead of 40,000 years of travel away. Long term survivability? I don't understand how not being subjected to a planets natural disasters is a detriment to survivability. Maybe you should give me some of those "hundreds of examples" that you can list for me. "water and radiation"... If a planet doesn't have an atmosphere or magnetic field then you are going to have to take every single measure to build a habitable colony on the surface of that planet/moon that you would have to take to build one in orbit. Except youll have to additionally build protections against earth quakes, giant sand storms, uncomfortable levels of gravity, and every other natural disasters.. Combined with being totally immobile and unable to just move out of the way of potential impacts. Anyways, I'm having a slow weekend.. Feel free to give me your hundreds of example so I can dismantle them. Itll be fun and maybe youll be the first person ever to bring up something I haven't already thought of.
Not commenting to hate, but the opposite. This is the first video you've posted (that I'm aware of) that actually caught my attention due to the uniqueness of the topic, in awhile. Please keep posting around newish debatable talks 🙏🍿 Always sticking around though.
@AF5IU Just because it did not fit your interpretation of what it was supposed to be, doesn't mean it's clickbait. He talked about the differences based off his opinion just like the title literally states.
@@timothyvanhoeck233 To say one is ignorant towards things without providing context is ignorant in itself, a safer approach to calling someone out. Please elaborate.
@@_GuzJ To start, he flat out mislabeled the moon as a "planet" within the first minute of the video. That automatically places red flags on the guy's credibility. More importantly, he claims Titan isn't flammable due to a lack of oxygen, which may be true if Titan is left in its natural state, but in a video discussing the possibility of colonizing Titan, the fact he leaves out the glaring issue that in order to do so you would need to import vast amounts of oxygen onto the world, thereby risking a global catastrophe, is a pretty damn significant omission of inconvenient facts. Add that to the additional oxygen produced via farming, and you may as well be planning to blow up and/or incinerate the entire freaking moon at that point.
@@_GuzJ It's the textbook definition of click-bait. Just because you're wowed by the above video doesn't make it not click-bait. If you truly knew anything about the topic to which the video creator discusses, you would instantly recognize that there are a number of glaring omissions made that are inconvenient to that which he's shilling.
Human beings will never colonise another planet. We exist on this one due to many factors being just right for us that cannot be replicated anywhere else.
Very nice and interesting video. The analysis is relevant, Titan will be an attractive place to colonize despite its distance after Mars. However, there is Ganymede which is less distant (in comparison with Titan) and where there is water.
There is water yes but the surface is under water meaning what your landing and building on are glaciers that are constantly being shifted by Jupiter's pull so yeah it has thing titan doesnt but its also just a whole lot more compictated when actually trying to set somthing perminent
Could we build artificial magnetic protection around the space craft and habitat area? Superconducting wire in coils ran around the habitat? That would seem like the best option for mars or the moon
BSCCO has a critical temperature of 108K, so that would be possible, but to get any kind of practical current, we'd still need liquid nitrogen. There is also LaH10 that works at 250 K, but only at 1.7 million atmospheres of pressure.
if we're going to put the capsules on the surface, as opposed to finding a naturally occurring large lava tube, what you can do is just bury them (using robots). 🙂
I personally am in favor of building O'Neill cylinders in Earth Orbit as the next step. You got no hassle with terraforming or insulating against a hostile atmosphere and you got the shortest supply routes. If you use a small comet as a water source and an asteroid for building materials, you can save a lot of the construction costs. I have seen estimates that a cylinder could be built for 5-10k USD per sqm, around the same as a building in New York or Tokyo.
sorry, O'Neill cylinders were NEVER intended to be in Earth Orbit. (tidal forces would tear them apart). They were intended for the L4 position, which is far enough away to be relatively stable (which means they still need to have station keeping capability or they drift elsewhere... including falling into the Earth or into the Sun.
@@jessepollard7132 Yes, ofc I was thinking about the L-points. Especially L4 and L5.... which are in the exact same solar orbit as Earth. And anything inside is stable, just look at the Trojans and Greek asteroids caught in Jupiters L4 and L5. respectively. But any cylinder needs a station keeping drive and control systems to keep its rotation stable, that also goes without saying, Nevertheless, it will be easier to put a cylinder in such a relatively close point to Earth rather than terraform a planet or a moon an order of magnitude further away.
@@Redmenace96 I got this from a decades old scifi story. Spacers were dependent on Earth and Earth charged a lot for water, so they took one of their spaceships, more or less docked it to a big chunk of ice in the rings of Saturn and offered water back to Earth for bargain prices 😛 This is utterly possible when you use a nuclear reactor (fission or fusion) as energy source and an ion drive. The water is not just for drinking but also coolant and rocket propellant. It is possible to get to Saturn in a few weeks with current tech, if only you want to. Or you take a lot longer, get a satellite with solar panels and some telescopic arms, again fly it out to Saturns rings, have it anchor itself to a frozen swimming pool worth of ice and do a minimal burn for a Homan transfer orbit. And if you got like a hundred of those satellites, you easily got sufficient ice coming in for any need. And asteroids are similar and even easier to catch once you found them. Just don't choose the fastest ones. The biggest problem in working on stuff in zero-g is recoil. But capturing things with telescope arms or some kind of net is possible and there was a mission a while back capturing an old satellite, so it got tried in space in the real world. And if you secure both sides, you can even drill or mill or smelt something, just capture any spalling. Funny story about that is the "Live free or Die" / "Troy Rising" series by John Ringo. He slaps an Orion drive on a big asteroid and got some tunnels inside and presto, you got a battlewagon that moves very slowly but got miles and miles of armor. You can read the first few chapters on "baen" for free.
Wait a second. I know you said titan isn’t flameable since there is no oxygen in its atmosphere… but what if you need to put oxygen in your titan base? Wouldn’t it ignite the moon in a firey inferno
No. For the same reason you can light a match on Earth without the room catching fire. Nitrogen is an inert gas and even throwing a lit match into one of Titans methane lakes wouldn't light it on fire. It's way too cold for that to happen and you'd need a substantial amount of oxygen. Inside the base, the risk of fires would be comparable (likely much lower) to the risk of your house spontaneously catching fire.
@@Jameswebbtelescope7484Methane doesn't burn without oxygen - it's CH4 and requires oxygen to burn into CO2 and water. Flammable only means that something can burn in the presence of an oxidiser (or oxygen in general) and most substances need a certain ignition energy as well. Take away the oxygen and things can't burn, even if they are otherwise flammable.
The small amount of oxygen would quickly be exhausted, just like a methane (natural gas) leak that ignites on earth won't set the whole planet on fire. The potential for gas leaks is another problem though. If methane from the atmosphere leaks into the base then you have an explosive mixture inside, just like a gas leak inside a house on earth. Terraforming Titan by increasing the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere without removing the methane will result in having that flammable/explosive mixture everywhere.
In the near term, cloud cities in the upper atmosphere of Venus might be a better bet. Do a little asteroid mining for raw materials and water and just chuck it into the atmosphere of Venus. Parachutes and balloons could work for delivery systems in atmosphere. Robotic mining on the nightside of Mercury might also supply building materials. You could get water from the sulfuric acid clouds in the Venusian atmosphere, but it would be a chore.
@-whackd I know next to nothing about Chemistry, but doesn't the H2S04 need to be dissolved in water before the electrolysis takes place? So you would need water to make water? Is the H2S04 preferentially consumed before most of the water? While reading up on some chemical reactions that might be useful, I saw this one: "Carbon reacts with sulfuric acid to produce carbon dioxide and sulfur dioxide gas along with water. Sulfuric acid should be a concentrated, heated solution." Plenty of carbon(C02) and Sulfuric acid on Venus.
@@matthewhuszarik4173 right now nobody is able to safely send people to the Moon. Not NASA, not SpaceX, not China, not India, NO ONE. Imagining that we could send people to Titan with the technology we have now and in the next decades is totally unrealistic. For Mars we need at least another 100 years. For Titan significantly more.
If we had the tech and resources to "teraform" Mars or Titan, then it would be way easier and more logical to maintain the planet we already have. You'd need bases on the moon and on Mars for the infrastructure necessary to set up anything on Titan, and the timing window for launches would be very small. I just find it funny that we don't even know our own oceans, and yet we think about occupying other celestial bodies.
@eclipse369. I get the whole concept of spread out and mitigate one event from wiping everything out, but where we are at, any attempt to establish ourselves on another planet wouldn't be sustainable and would rely on our "mother" planet for a long time, if not indefinitely. Well at least long enough for the home planet to be rendered incapable of future support... = extinction
I believe that it may be possible to use different planets and moons to harvest their resources, that can supply large space stations throughout our solar system. We need faster and bigger ships that can also haul resources to and froe. I am a firm believer in the need to have very similar gravity as earth and that may be best created on rotating space habitats at least 1 km in diameter so they say. Imagine trying to build an underground spinning habitat underground on Mars? That might be like trying to build the Hoover Dam on earth. How to power that habitat? Mars has a gravity well, and is very hard to land ships of any kind on such as supply ships containing resources. This moon called Titan might be an excellent place to have a large Space Habitat that could house hundreds of thousands or more people. This habitat could be in space in orbit around the moon and be spinning to create gravity. There could also be a mining colony there to harvest that abundant Methane for fuel. It should be easy to get it off that planet with the low gravity well there. Water may also be harvested, but large amounts of water may be better harvested somewhere else and imported to that area to create drinking water and oxygen to burn the methane. This Methane may be able to be exported to a number of locations in the Solar system to be used for fuel to burn in space for energy. You wouldn't be sending it to Earth for a number of reasons, but there may be Space Habitats orbiting Earth that could use it.
It's the coldness. I heard a someone talk about living on Titan on the radio, about all the benefits. However, having gone to work and sometimes even working outside in -30 Celsius weather (for brief periods) , for a human existing in a -180 environment is only possible in one form and that form is a solid frozen object. Even if one had a suit on, any glass to see through would fog up and ice over instantly rendering one blind, rubber used to seal the suit would become hard, brittle and ineffective. The glass that is now covered with ice will crack and shatter due to temperature difference between inside and outside. Yes outer space is cold but it's also a vacuum and a vacuum insulates. On Titan one is surrounded by a bitterly cold medium that'll just suck all the heat out of everything. There will be a host of other problems for sure that we will learn once there. So yeah, it'll never happen. IMHO.
The upper atmosphere of Venus at one atmosphere is far more habitable. You get nearly the same gravity and temperature as Earth, protection from radiation, at one atmosphere.
Yes, main problem is the engineering required to create the perfect floating city that can never fail ever almost 5 years distant from earth is thousands of years in the future. In the long, long term I would agree that's the best place for humans in the solar system
@@timothyvanhoeck233 No , I'm not forgetting that. The occupants would obviously be inside a floating habitation, not flying around in the open like birds.
@@caezar55 5 years ??? It takes 3 - 6 months to Venus with current technology for space probes, and the technology for a floating habitat already exists. Of course an elaborate "city" with all the comforts of home is a distant dream.
Not to mention living in a city floating in the sky is more appealing than in a city underground. If you cannot go outside, at least you need a nice view.
If given the choice, many millions. Pioneering is a powerful drive for our species. One that many would be willing to risk their lives for, let alone do without a couple of earthly comforts. Living on Mars is so much better than living in a space station in Earth orbit and there's plenty who'd love that too. Instead you have gravity, only a third so you finally use that weight. Plus there's a whole planet to explore! Even if much of that would be underground (certainly not all of it) people squeeze between rocks for pleasure on Earth. As the new frontier, the challenges that need to be overcome would also make it a pressure cooker for science and technology. It would be immensely exciting for many to experience and be part of that.
@@apb38 Where would be the fun in that? We do these things not because they are easy but because they are hard. We absolutely can and would fully colonise Antarctica. Except nobody is allowed to, because the whole continent is subject to the Antarctic Treaty and has been for 1961. There were already 55 research stations on the continent at that time. Antarctica's value to research (and holding off global nuclear war) is far greater than its value as a residential area. However, as stated before. People do live there year round. We could absolutely turn in into the next dubai and people would go shopping there and see the sights. Hotels on Antarctica would be pretty popular. Though nothing like what a space hotel or a mars hotel could draw if there were no other boundaries than a willingness to go there. Territorial claims with tense political outcomes are actually one of the challenges people colonising other planets and moons will have to overcome. Scientific treaties like the Antarctica treaty will no doubt be very relevant in the initial years at least. Eventually though, as more and more people start to live there, they will need their own rules. Long term independence is pretty much inevitable. It would also be pretty stupid for the people so proudly claiming their own independence to deny it others. Lots of human stuff will happen, it always does. But it will be the next frontier. Until eventually spreading out to other worlds might mean we actually survive one of the many inevitable disasters that would wipe out humans on Earth. We'd get to live on as a species, keep on carrying the torch of being the only life and sentient species that we know of in the universe currently. Though I hope we behave a bit more worthy by then.
@@CitizenMio i have dreamed of leaving earth since i was a boy i would go there and help build what you say so true have you read the three body problem books amazing story people who have doubts about mars and interplanetary life should give that book a read or listen to even listen to the youtuber quinn’s ideas he does all sorts of science fiction audiobooks and breakdowns
@anthonycassidy1124 I've watched the show, but haven't read the books yet. I hear it's a lot clearer with some of the logic than the show, so I do want to give them a go soon. Have you read the Red, Green, Blue Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson? It's basically the Mars colony bible xD Including all the politics that will undoubtedly mess with things.
This video just keeps getting stupider. "This is a problem for which no solution has been found" There are several proposed solutions. Nothing cheap or easy, but what is? Colonizing Titan would not be easy or cheap either. You're just going to ignore the problems with Titan like the distance from Earth. The radiation of the 20 year trip to Titan. The astronauts muscles would be atrophied when they got there. They would be half blind if not completely blind from the trip. Supplying the colony would be very difficult so they would need to be 100% self sufficient. How would they stay warm at negative 300 degrees? How would they grow food and replenish oxygen with almost no light? You keep talking about Titan has fuel. No. The methane is useless without oxygen. So you can't heat and light the colony with methane. So in reality it is not possible with current technology. Hydrogen, Methane, Ethane, is all useless without oxygen. "Nitrogen can grow crops" Not in minus 300 degrees with no light.
Thank you! Jeez! Without even viewing this video that was my thought. Titan is just way too far away from earth. Earth needs a jump off point to make traveling to other planets feasible. Once earth has a stable colony on Mars, humans can then look into colonizing other moons on different planets. Also colonizing Mars will be Earths test run.
If you ask me we’ll inevitably colonize the Moon and Mars first since they’re closer, but it won’t be long before we colonize Titan and other moons of Jupiter and Saturn as well.
I think a giant ship orbiting in a goldilocks zone above venus makes the most sense. Put it just low enough to provide gravity and protect from radiation, run on solar and nuclear, grow plants inside for food and oxygen, close enough to earth for resupply, emergencies, and the ability to go back home if needed
(putting it low enough for gravity) would not work if the ship was orbiting. If the ship was not orbiting it would crash into Venus unless it had antigravity. If we have antigravity just use artificial gravity. Even without gravity control, just use big spinning drums.
I suspect there's only one planet or moon in the solar system we'll ever be able to colonise and that's Earth. While technically we "might" be able to succeed with the technology we have now or develop in the future, the cost and obstacles are just too large. It's hard enough to live in Antarctica without being resupplied constantly and the obstacles on Mars and Titan are magnitudes higher. For a start Titan is -180 deg C. That's because it doesn't get enough energy from the Sun. And that's the major issue because super insulation would not work. You would always be losing heat to the atmosphere and you would need a large, constant energy supply to replenish that lost heat.
Building over ice thats lime permafrost what about insulating with a thick layer of pycrete first then a wood or polymer like how they do with landfills and thst will hold your soil and channels for irrigation?
The microgravity could be mitigated by specialized clothing that is magnetic. Then, the flooring could be magnetized somehow so as to apply a gravity-like effect on the special suit or clothing. Obviously, such a system would have to be tuned properly so that the maximum "pull" area affects the shoulder and torso area, so the arms might feel a little "light-weight" perhaps. Obviously, I don't have all the intricate details for how such a system might work, but it would be an interesting concept to explore in my opinion.
As a trucker, I've counted at least a dozen geoplanetary factors in high Wyoming and remote Nevada having it all over Mars. Water not factor 1. But no one's there! We're overlooking the gorilla.
Earth has this habit of killing off everything at the top of the food chain. Some people are perfectly happy to pass that extinction threat on to future generations.
The beginning points of Mars having deadly cosmic radiation is greatly exaggerated as recent studies show that aside from high altitudes like at the top of Olympus Mons, the radiation levels on the surface of Mars are not as bad as initially thought. They're within managable levels that won't be lethal to humans long term.
1)The two biggest problems with Titan are lack of solar rays and low gravity. 2)It's unlikely that either Moon, Mars, Venus, Mercury or Titan(or any other of gas giants' moons) would actually be colonized. What can happen is them becoming some sort of industry hubs for processing resourses mined on those planets. They are just too inhospitable to live there. I think we will have colonies in other star systems earlier
@@DrSpooglemon human technology develops exponentially.y estimate that in 600 years we'll have first working FTL prototype. As for the time before that, we may be able to launch few slower than light unmanned interstellar "terraforming" ships. The don't need to be super huge thanks to the upcoming newer engines with huge specific impulse
@@DrSpooglemon FTL doesn't necessarily break causality, people who think so don't understand physics and relativity theory. FTL is theoretically possible, the only question is how to make it actually work
@@jimmcneal5292 OK. Assuming that FTL doesn't break causality, it requires technology that doesn't yet exist in any form and may, for all we know, be impossible, it requires "exotic matter" and at current estimates the energy of an entire star to fuel it and once you get beyond the orbit of Pluto and the Oort cloud you would be faced with the particle hurricane being pushed around the Sun's magnetosphere; while terraforming Titan is a matter of scaling up processes we already understand and using technologies built upon existing technologies using regular old matter and more pedestrian amounts of energy(filling the atmosphere with the right mixture of gases and removing all the hydrocarbons). One requires things that only exist in the minds of theoretical physicists and the other is an engineering problem.
There's far too many objects floating around Titan to even consider sending humans there. That planet probably gets bombarded far more than we even know.
One massive problem that was overlooked in this. That could potentially make costs skyrocket... There is no Titan Regolith. No access to stone or any material we can use for soil. To get at this you need to drill into granite hard water ice... hundreds of feet. So while you can make a stilt habitat to avoid human activity actively melting out bedrock... you will likely need to dig deep pylons to rock or bury it anyways. Building in outcroppings is possible but now you have massively narrowed building site choices. The need to import regolith for use in both building and cultivation is a huge disadvantage. You still need domes, water production, heating, etc... mars and the moon have the same restriction but at least they have regolith. Titan would better be a production colony with orbitals that house people and surface outposts for worker comfort and access. Hell... you could have a surface of telepresence workers or full automation instead.
If we colonize any other body in the solar system, I have a feeling that no matter how well we terraform we will be the ones doing a lot of the adapting. Wouldn't it be strange for there to be human subspecies after there being only one extant for thousands of years?
We can use nuclear generators to melt ice and separate Hydrogen and Oxygen. Then we can combine the hydrogen with the abundant Nitrogen to make Ammonia (which can be used for fertilizer etc.). Next, we can either use the leftover oxygen to burn the ethane rivers for energy or release it into the atmosphere.
We know a million times more about Mars than Titan. Not only that but it's a lot closer to us. That means we don't have to spend half a decade on a space rocket, which would take a tremendous physical toll on the astronauts before even getting there to start work. We also have no idea how to survive on Titan. Although we have indicators and calculated guesses, we don't know for certain if there's even water present. We also don't have any habitats or equipment developed for Titan but we do for Mars. Since Mars' atmosphere is only 1% of that of Earth's it's a lot closer to empty space which we have developed habitats for. Assuming we can find drinkable water on Mars and find a way to protect ourselves from radiation, Mars is currently the better candidate. It's also easier to land supply ships on Mars since the atmosphere isn't 45% thicker than on Earth (like it is on Titan). After Mars we can concentrate on Titan and perhaps expand there as well some time in the future. We do need a lot more probes on Titan's surface before we can do anything else. Sending autonomous robots would probably be the best next step after that. Bonus rant: and let's not even mention Venus. Anyone suggesting a colony there is just being silly. If we thought Mars was bad, wait until we have to land a spacecraft through a thick atmosphere filled with acid clouds and then try to survive on the surface.
The Moon and Mars are excellent choices, as stepping stones. Our technological prowess and advancements will be enhanced before we attempt to colonize Titan. Titan would then be destination #1, and an exciting place to expand our technological knowledge. Very exciting!
We are almost at the point to where we can build orbital magnetosphere devices to place at Mars or lunar L1 points. Titan could make for excellent outpost colonies, but not really much more.
@@Flipnotic64 bro methane is energy you get oxygen and you have basically unlimited energy to build all sorts of infrastructure and will be the jumpstart to begin the dyson sphere
It seems that the more technologically advanced we become, the dumber we get. Columbus didn't use a giant ship to cross the Atlantic. He used a fleet of regular ships. If we wait until we have Star Trek style star ships we're never going to get there, but a dozen or so Space X Star Ships on an initial run, followed by launching a ship every month or so, until you can get a standard periodic rotation of ships coming and going could get it done in our lifetimes.
Free falling from a skyscraper at 12 miles an hour. You could literally jump off of mountains and soar safely down to the bottom. A winged suit could keep you airborne for miles. How's that for a good time.
@@jessepollard7132 In the higher layers of the atmosphere the winds are not that strong and protecting yourself from acidic clounds is really the smallest problem.
The view from titan would be one of my favorite features. Creating an oxygen rich atmosphere would take a long time but would be well worth the effort. Also the lower gravity would create taller plants, animals, and people.
Atmospheric pressure and magnetosphere protection are big factors. Titan getting both right might ultimately be more workable. We can learn to get there faster.
It may also be the most plausible to colonize with intelligent robots. We would possibly have robots build infrastructure before human habitation, since they need no oxygen. We need to increase our production of radioisotope thermoelectric generators!
You have to watch out for the methane and chocolate rain on Titan though.
Methane Rain Lyrics
[Verse 1] Methane Rain We left Earth to find a new domain Methane Rain But Titan is not an easy terrain Methane Rain The atmosphere is thick and full of haze Methane Rain We have to wear suits to survive the days Methane Rain The gravity is low but still a drag Methane Rain We can’t fly or jump without a jetpack Methane Rain The surface is cold and covered with ice Methane Rain We have to drill and melt to reach the brine
[Refrain] Methane Rain A moon of Saturn with a hidden sea Methane Rain Could it hold the secrets of life’s key? Methane Rain A moon of Saturn with a hidden sea Methane Rain Could it hold the secrets of life’s key?
[Verse 2] Methane Rain We built a base near a giant lake Methane Rain But the weather is hard to forecast and track Methane Rain Sometimes it pours and floods our habitat Methane Rain Sometimes it’s dry and cracks our solar mat Methane Rain We try to study the chemistry and geology Methane Rain But the data is scarce and full of anomaly Methane Rain We wonder if there’s something alive down there Methane Rain But we don’t have the tools or the time to spare
[Refrain] Methane Rain A moon of Saturn with a hidden sea Methane Rain Could it hold the secrets of life’s key? Methane Rain A moon of Saturn with a hidden sea Methane Rain Could it hold the secrets of life’s key?
[Verse 3] Methane Rain We miss our home and our families Methane Rain But we can’t go back, we have to stay Methane Rain We are the pioneers of a new frontier Methane Rain We have to face the challenges and the fear Methane Rain We hope that one day we’ll make a breakthrough Methane Rain And find out what this moon can offer and do Methane Rain We dream of a future where we can thrive Methane Rain On this strange and distant world, we are alive
[Refrain] Methane Rain A moon of Saturn with a hidden sea Methane Rain Could it hold the secrets of life’s key? Methane Rain A moon of Saturn with a hidden sea Methane Rain Could it hold the secrets of life’s key?
@@John-tc9gp Hahahaha I like this! ✊🤘❤️
It takes small spacecraft 8 to 12 years to get to Titan. A spacecraft with many astronauts and all the supplies they need would go slower because it is larger. The astronauts would be 40 year old atrophied blind cripples by the time they arrived. The video keeps talking about the abundance of fuel on Titan. There is zero fuel without oxygen. It is minus 300 degrees. How would you keep warm? How would you grow plants? How would you feed the colony and replenish oxygen when there isn't enough light to grow plants of heat the greenhouse? Are you going to rely on huge supply ships arriving every year when they will take 20 years to travel that distance? All of this may be possible someday, but it certainly will not be easier than Mars.
@@John-tc9gp Glad some have a good track record out there.
The biggest problem with Titan isn't the atmosphere but the Distance. It takes way too long to get there in order to get into orbit (2,000 days or 5 1/2 years) and that is an huge hurdle to get over.
By comparison it takes about 7 months to reach Mars, which is a much more viable option and easier. In addition, if you want to turn around and come back you only have to wait 3 months to do so. Going to Jupiter and coming back would take 11 years (way too long). Sure we could get to Jupiter in a little over year but we can't land there because we would be going so fast, all we could do is just fly by and defeats the whole point of going there.
Mars is the most viable option right now and radiation isn't a problem if we use the inflatable modules Sierra Space is building.
Although, Mars does have pockets of Magnetic fields (due to the rock structures) and perhaps it would be suitable to build setup the inflatable modules in those areas.
Also complaining about going to Mars and having to live underground but then claiming to go to Titan where you will never ever see the sun is rather funny. At least on Mars you'll be able to go outside for short periods of time with a space suit and see the sun.
what we could do is not to colonize Mars but to build base there to manufacture our way to Titan
You forgot to mention Titan's hydrocarbon abundance, which would make bringing any sizeable amount of oxygen to the world a megadisaster waiting to happen.
As a respected Martian i'm truly insulted by this video..
Titan as a colonization prospect is hella overrated.
By contrast it takes less than a day to get anywhere on Earth and guess what, anywhere on Earth is better than anywhere in space.
Tidal forces from Saturn would need to be addressed. There may be massive moonquakes almost constantly because of it which would make building things hard.
just send the Japanese in first, they'll solve it
All buildings would have to be on skids.
Dude you need to wake up from your imagination pretend science fiction dream you talk like you been to Saturn wake up Nobody has and never will it’s fabricated science fiction movie. Wake up
Tidal forces. Hahahahaha too funny which Hollywood movie did you steal that from
Hahaha
You do know that 'tidal forces' means the effect of gravity on celestial bodies, right?@@angus7282
Seeing Saturn looming in the sky each day would make the -180C worth it.
I think the prospect of seeing Saturn in the sky, looking so huge, is what attracts people to Titan, but the atmosphere is supposed to be so thick and hazy that Saturn would seldom be very visible.
Yeah, that's super dense atmosphere
Don't want mars, I want cooler place.
@@ilovemybharat12 Pluto
@@ilovemybharat12 cold is death. We don't know cold in earth, the real cold is outside
Anyone who built on siberian permafrost knows that building on ice brings on a whole new engineering challenge.
Underground structure and soil cultivation immediately goes out the window, as heating up the ground would melt or sublimate it.
You need to build everything, including your farm, on top of an air gapped structure, and that does not sound easy at all.
We're engineers. We do hard shit.
@@darko714 Are you nerd sniping me? Because now that you mentioned it's hard, all of a sudden it looks interesting 😂
Still easier than doing it on a world with no atmosphere at all. Titan is also a lot colder than the Siberian permafrost.
@@nimblehuman yup, it's so insanely cold I very much doubt an insulated human-built structure would even make a dent in the iron-hard icy crust. Just mining that ice would be challenge enough, not like you could just go out with an ice-pick and get yerself a cup to melt for your coffee 😅. Also I don't think there is anything that counts as 'soil' for growing anyway. All crop cultivation would likely be soilless and hydroponic.
Even farming on Mars would be more complex than just making soil from regolith since the martian 'soil' is full of perchlorates toxic to plant life. It would need heavy processing to make it viable.
They already need to build completely sealed habitats. They aren't going to melt the ice without having catastrophic levels of heat loss for the habitat. I think the basic concept is already more difficult than building on Siberian permafrost. This is also why such a colony would need intensive support and shipping income in order to thrive at first, and it could be decades if not centuries before that colony produced enough goods to be even financially self-reliant.
I just took a deep breath lying on grass looking out at the stars, Man Earth is just GREAT ❤
Como veo son inexpertos como conocedor de la Antártida acá al lado con campo magnético agua aire ...se vuelven locos para soportar ... no sean tontos aprendan a .vivir en paz acá científicos inexpertos
I feel like the biggest hurdle with any of this is purely moving the material to build anything like this in the first place.
We need a space elevator.
@@frbrable and the ability to generate a powerful magnetic field around any spacecraft to act like a portable Van Allen belt to protect the crews from most of the radiation.
@@no2party
you don't HAVE to do a magnetic field. "Time, distance, shielding". Make the vehicle go as fast possible, and put as much shielding as you can. It can be just a thick layer of water.
Though I would add that a magnetic sail, if pointed toward the sun, will accelerate you away without having to expend fuel, so there is that. 🙂
taylor, you want to do as much as possible using the materials found on the planet.
@@neutrino78x correct, a magnetic field isn't necessary but having multiple redundancies is practically a must
Moon first. _Then_ Titan! True that distances to Titan are at this point technologically challenging. However colonizing the moon first would help us overcome certain technological hurdles and give us experience in the processes needed to develop infrastructure for colonial endeavors.
I think we are dreaming thinking that we will be ready for anything more than the moon right now anways.
For sure! We could do it if there was the political and social climate that was conducive to the Great Effort made for the Gemini/Mercury/Apollo initiatives and technology drivers generated in getting to the Moon. But for now, we are stuck in a post industrial cesspool of internecine nationalistic warfare and oligarchical preeminence. @@johnnypottseed
The moon is probably no-go for us, because humans don't do too well in microgravity. There are all sorts of theoretical solutions to a lot of the other problems like radiation, but none at all for low or no gravity. That's why Mars may be our only shot, and if it turns out humans don't do well in Martian gravity either (38% of Earth's), we may never be able to expand off the planet.
@@CaptainOverkill It depends on mission duration. A crew can do a lot in a month or two where physical conditioning In-situ creates conditions for success, and is not a deal-breaker at all. Mars might be a good option after colonizing, industrializing, and exploring the moon wherein processes for such endeavours will be refined. Most people also discount the advent of technological advances that make current challenges less problematic especially when in concordance with national scientific objectives and technology drivers. The Moon is the only doable and reasonable next step into exploring the solar system.
@@CaptainOverkill how about wearing some nice heavy ankle and wrist weights?
Theres a reason nobody lives in Antarctica. Titans is well over 100 degrees colder and only gets 1 percent of the sunlight earth gets. It would be a crazy challenge to keep any machine from freezing. Its not a realistic choice with our current technology but its fun to imagine. Either way you need to live need to live in some dome meaning you might as well live on mars. Its still a better choice.
Uh, people do live in Antarctica, year round, no less.
Although I would propose anyone thinking of living on Mars spend a full year minimum in Antarctica, because if you can’t cut it there you have no business being on Mars.
@@Ravege98 almost all the people that live here are researchers and scientists. You could easily populate Antarctica, but we don't do it because of the less than ideal conditions. Same reason as why barely anyone will colonise other planets/satellites.
One point the video is making is that "living in some dome" isn't enough on Mars. You'd have to live underground. The dome only works on Titan. Mars is a poor choice of world in general. It's just easier to get to.
@@insertname9736 we also dont do it because of several treaties and geopolitical conflicts over the land. I think that if it were an option, lots of people would go there to see what they could exploit.
@peterkirby7546 maybe more people hired by companies will go there, but I doubt many civilians will want to live permanently in Antarctica. Especially with the very long day-night cycle.
Titan is my favourite body in the solar system but I have seen NASA talk about how it is much easier to survive no magnetic field at all than it is to survive Saturn's (and especially Jupiter's) magnetic field interacting with their satellites so I still think Mars is first on the list.
Titan is pretty far out in the Saturnian system. It's not close in like the Galilean moons of Jupiter. So radiation levels will be much less, and mitigated by the thick atmosphere.
I'm not an advocate for Titan, but I'll point out that while on Earth, in terms of mass, there are 10 tons of atmosphere over each square metre, on Titan there's a hundred tons of atmosphere over each square metre of the surface.
@@andrewworth7574More than enough radiation protection
Your two biggest issues are the lack of gravity which degrades the human body and then it comes to growing food in radiated regolith, which would have to be processed and filtered with enormous refineries for a very long time and injected with bacteria before it could be called soil (the movie The Martian is full of shit ;) which along with ability to control gravity are technologies we do not yet posses nor are likely to for many decades (if we last that long).
@@1ManNamedDan Would be easier just to bring tonnes of high quality soil than to bring the machinery and equipment to build refineries to process the regolith into low quality soil.
Unless we could make the refineries with automated robots, but Titan is not exactly metal rich.
I just want Saturn in the sky, but seems like it'd be too cloudy to see it
Never gonna happen
The worst day on Antartica is more survivable than the best day on Mars. You want to colonize a frozen waste land? Well, we’ve got one right here!
@@astralclub5964 seems like you copy paste this comment everywhere. He is talking about Saturn and Titan, not Mars
@@astralclub5964 This isn't true. Mars actually is warm in the summer near the equator, with highs of about 70F, but it can get hotter. The problem is, the atmosphere is thin, so heat escapes easily. It gets down to -100F at night. However, the winters can be a whopping -200C. The coldest temperature ever recorded in Antartica was -136F in 2010, which is colder than the best days on mars at night.
O'Neill Cylinders are the sound colonization options. The small moons and asteroids are for resources. The system's planets and moons are for scientific research facilities.
Titan could eventually act as the outer solar system's industrial powerhouse due to its plentiful nitrogen and hydrocarbons.
By the time humans start getting serious about widely colonizing the outer moons and planets of the solar system, Helium-3 refineries orbiting Jupiter and Saturn will probably be supplying nearly all of the fuel for spacecraft and colonies.
@@BrianWelch-vc7xy
Achieving workable, portable, affordable fusion is the real game changer. I think it would have such a profound impact across the board that we can barely imagine how it would change our civilization.
But where are you going to find an oxygen to utilize all that hydrocarbons? IMO, only nuclear fusion is practical for utilization in space.
Planets for scientific research? What a terrible idea. Just dismantle them to making rotating habs or virtual habs.
@@vladimirsilver2633 I agree with some of the planets... Mercury and Venus, for instance. Those that are remotely livable, however... should be lived on at least until we find better options.
Great video. The only other downside is that daylight on the surface would be 1% that on Earth; dark twilight at its brightest!
-180 deg C is a major problem tho, again to get warmer one would have to go deep underground to get some geothermal energy.
At 15% the gravity, muscle wasting would be another issue. - Best option in my view is still to build a few descent sized mobile rotating space stations, and place them in orbits around places like the Moon, Venus Mars, Ganymede, Titan, Titania, Triton (thats 7 sounds like a good number).. my wish list for 2200, LOL
In Navy boot camp the Chief had a simple solution for getting warmer, He just said, "Jumping jacks! Ready, begin!" worked everytime!
Major problem? you mean LIFE ENDING PROBLEM. humans can not build anything useful on titans surface. humans could probably build something useful UNDER titans surface, where there is probably already life anyway. and being under the surface means the radiation is blocked by the surface anyway so titans atmosphere is not that useful. it may in fact be better for humans to aim for a smaller underice ocean like Enceladus because there is no atmosphere to content with when coming down from orbit, and the ocean is a lot more shallow so you can reach reasonable temperature depths without as much water pressure on top of you.
O'Neill colonies are the sensible option.
@@andrewworth7574 Yes, like that. Like those in the film Elysium.
Rotating space stations would need to solve the cosmic radiation problem. Even without shelter, being at the surface of a planetary body cuts the cosmic radiation exposure in half.
The upper atmosphere of Venus could be another interesting place to go. Plenty of solar energy, plenty of carbon, tolerable temperature and pressure, and air is a buoyant gas there.
It seems to me that you would need to keep an even higher air pressure in a habitat to prevent the intrusion of methane where it would mix with oxygen with disastrous results. Also any failure in heating of a space suit or habitat would result in instant freezing.
Failure of a heating source does not usually result in instant freezing. Your initial heat ( at the point of failure) will take some time to reduce to water freezing temps, depending on the insulating properties of your suit.
@@jackieking1522 , The temperature on Titan is nearly -300 degrees F. If a spacesuit heating failure occurred the poor guy would be a block of ice in mere seconds.
It's not realistically feasible maybe robots
@@davidgardner863I strongly doubt. It's not liquid, it's gas and the cooling speed would most likely be relatively low, definitely not instant
@@jimmcneal5292 , Okay, minutes then.
"Is there anyone among you that want to go to a brand new world only to spend the rest of your life in an underground tunel?"
I AM A DWARF AND I'M DIGGING A HOLE
Gentle reminder that dwarves aren't real, unless we are speaking of Achondroplasia and the like, which as a set do not also induce a predilection for dwelling underground, despite popular fiction. What you are thinking of is Welshmen.
Mars is closer, the moon even closer than that, and you can use non nuclear detonations to clear out large chasms- far from living in a tunnel. Besides, minus teraforming atmosphere wise, we've pretty much changed the face of our planet covering kilometers. Manmade lakes, hollowing out limestone mountains, salt mines, all such methods could be used for purposes of excavation on mars.Engineers would be able to come up many ways to solve the problems planetary engineering. Both on mars, and titan. Personally, I'd like titan to be colonized too- it would be spectacular to see saturn, the ringed glory rising in its skies.
@@Flipnotic64 , look at buckeye lake in Ohio, St. Mary's lake in the same state- the lake in Russia which in this case was formed by a nuke. Using these methods on another world is what's fiction, now.
Or we could build habitats in the lava tubes that exist on the moon and Mars.🤔
We should start with a moon. Focus on mining robots, and 3d printing. Then Create bigger and bigger constructions, finally habitating our own Moon. With that experience we will be reaady to go further - any direction.
@@HCforLife1, AGREED!
@@ARWest-bp4yb , that's right. And as you know, neither the moon or Mars has a molten core therefore there's no danger of reoccurring lava flows.
One advantage: the buildings dont need to be pressurized. They just need to separate the internal and external atmospheres, that can be kept on the same pressure. Structures could be build as large tents (support frames and some layers of heat-isolating foil).
Some layers of insulation 😂
You’d need a lot of insulation to keep it cool (it’s colder than cold there…) and even more to make it actually warm
With only 14% gravity, humans simply could not live there long term.
If there was an easy method of generating a lot of atmosphere, and energy wasn't a huge problem, they could just be kept at a slightly higher pressure than the surrounding atmosphere so any leaks leak out and not in. Would mean building standard could be relatively crude and not overly complex and stringent. Building standard would be more comparable to standards for a hospital/lab on earth than for other space colonies.
the first one to get there will be military, them they will create wars. imaging.
The first human on titan:
“Perfectly balanced… as everything sould be :v “
😂
1:08 You'd have to live that way regardless because to date we've yet to find a world similar to our own in terms of size, mass, temperature and atmospheric composition and thickness, around a star similar to our own that is neither too active nor advanced in terms of stellar ageing.
Also, you'd need a crap ton of oxygen, which would be catastrophic on a hydrocarbon-rich world like Titan (you may as well be planning to blow the entire Saturnian moon up).
Sure we have. Venus is sufficiently similar to Earth. The problem is people perceive planets as being entirely homogenous, static, & relatively non-complex celestial objects; where, to settle one, you're going to need a fairly large amount of relatively high quality land, with a good layer of topsoil if you can find it & preferably some indigenous folk that can be easily captured & given something useful to do because space colonizing is difficult work & occasionally you'll want to kick back & bask in the warm alien sun -- although no lemonade & you'll have to p*** yourself because that alien atmosphere isn't going to be oxygenated & even if it were, with our weak & frail & pathetic bodies only partly compatible with the planet Earth, you'll be wearing some form of spacesuit that provides an optimum internal human environment...everything needed except for a means to expel one's own s*** & p***; for that, there will be an integrated a diaper into the suit. BUT! That seems entirely apt!
IF we're going to think & act like young toddlers when it comes to colonizing other worlds, THEN it's only fitting that we should have to p*** & s*** ourselves like young toddlers too.
Venus' atmosphere contains the most Earth-like conditions than anywhere else in our solar system, except for the Earth itself. Venus is closer than Mars meaning astronauts can travel there & back & not exceed their maximum tolerable excess dosage of radiation simply by being in transit. Venus has more frequent launch windows for supplies or for emergency assistance to realistically be deliverable. Venus' gravity is very close to our own on Earth which is important because your body won't start consuming itself, acclimating down to a low G Mars environment that will never allow you to return to Earth if you go there. Venus' atmosphere is doubly protective against radiation -- for one, Venus actually has an atmosphere; that in itself is a big plus for reducing exposure to radiation. & Two, the density & energy driving atmospheric conditions on Venus is enough to generate a modest magnetic field protecting the planet at least from having its atmosphere ripped off by constant high-energy solar bombardment.
Venus is a hot planet & Venus is a corrosive environment & Venus is a very dense planet. Its average surface level is extreme. It does have continents with better conditions, but still quite extreme. If you travel up into the atmosphere, at approx. 50Km, 1 Earth atmosphere is buoyant. Temperatures will have fallen to a human tolerable range. & The clouds of sulfuric acid are reduced substantially. These conditions, we already have the tech necessary to cope. Indeed, we have the technological foundations to potentially cope with surface conditions of Venus. That's why a colony in Venus' atmosphere is so superior to the surface of Mars -- Venus actually has stuff; a lot of that stuff isn't yet accessible; & a lot of people would really like to check that stuff out. Venus offers the drive for research & technological development that sets the bar so high, once we have fully developed technology to cope with the surface conditions of Venus, at the same time, we will have developed the technology that opens the exploration of nearly all other celestial bodies that also contain stuff (not the irradiated hell hole that is Mars, nor the gas giants...). & As a species, we really can't get enough stuff! & Since Mars is not only just radically impractical for colonization, but it is also severely lacking any stuff, I don't see any reason to kill astronauts in an attempt to land them there. Instead, I'd rather them live in the atmosphere of Venus & then return home to Earth whenever the next transit window comes around. The return home would be simple, they wouldn't step out of their return vehicle turned into freaks of nature barely able to survive once again on Earth; they would be safe & normal & they could go on to live their lives & they could rest easy, knowing they have contributed greatly to the advancement of our species.
@@j.macjordan9779 I appreciate the effort you put into writing all this, but there is so much wrong here and I don't have the energy to unpack it all. ChatGPT does though:
Venus' atmosphere is not the most Earth-like in the solar system; its surface conditions are extremely hostile, with high temperatures and pressures.
Venus' atmosphere does not offer significant protection against radiation; it lacks a global magnetic field like Earth's.
The concept of Venus having "continents with better conditions" is misleading; Venus' surface is uniformly extreme and inhospitable.
The idea of Venus having a modest magnetic field is incorrect; Venus does not have an intrinsic magnetic field like Earth.
The technology to cope with Venus' surface conditions is not currently as advanced as suggested; we are far from establishing a colony there.
The claim that Mars lacks "stuff" (resources) is inaccurate; Mars has various resources that could support colonization efforts.
The assertion that colonizing Venus would be simpler and safer than Mars is speculative and overlooks the significant challenges of Venusian colonization.
The notion that astronauts returning from Venus would be "safe and normal" oversimplifies the health challenges associated with long-duration space travel.
The statement that Mars is "radically impractical for colonization" ignores ongoing research and development efforts aimed at making Mars colonization feasible.
The idea that we already have the technology to cope with conditions 50km up in Venus' atmosphere is optimistic; current technology is not yet at this level.
Ultimately, Mars has water, Venus doesn't. That's why we're not going to Venus for the next century, it's expensive to send supplies over.
@SPCv4 - I generally don't converse with machines; they are wrong on arrival because they are not intelligent. ChatGPT, especially, is quite inferior to any Human of any intelligence - I've never been able to break a Human within 5min of merely speaking words...or typing words in ChatGPTs case. ChatGPT is built as static code designed to sort biased data & regurgitate it out in a manner the majority find acceptable, & whether it be true or not because ChatGPT, once prompted, can't help but not shut the f*** up! It is not AI; it is not intelligent; & its relevancy to the discussion at hand is non-existent. Is it any surprise that it told you exactly what you wanted to hear? I don't think so. Remember, ChatGPT is built by a company founded by a Man who has made it his life's ambition to put Human Beings (excluding himself) on Mars. So, once again, ChatGPT is wrong on arrival...& in more ways than just one.
Now, as for Venus not having water - this is incorrect. Venus has water vapor in its atmosphere. We've known this longer than we've known of any water on Mars. We've detected & extracted Water from the atmosphere of Venus before on more than one occasion. & I would still argue that going to Venus is far less expensive than going to Mars - Venus has even been suggested as a preferable target destination in transiting to Mars! & I would argue that the ROI in going to Venus instead of Mars makes Mars seem rather irrelevent in the grand scheme of things...(?)
So, I appreciate the non-effort in responding to my effort, but I suppose we'll just have to disagree here...I guess I just don't know what else to say... In my opinion, reason & rationality & logic are the better tools for approaching where our Species might venture an evolutionary leap & succeed in doing so within our solar system; &, in your opinion, ChatGPT is the better tool for doing the same...(?)
If you think about it the number of factors that make Earth quite habitable is quite surprising. Assuming they’re all independent - they’re not exactly - statistics will tell you it’s unlikely as “and” items are multipliers. Take fractions less than one and multiply them all and it will go to zero quickly. But finding another ready-made planet for us humans is no easy feat. I’ll bet the nearest one that meets most our needs is light years away.
I agree, it would be better to perfect our own planet before trying to colonise another. At the moment we are destroying it. The fact that we cannot sustain this planet with all that is given to us, says to me we would not be able to sustain any other. We really have to get our own house in order first.
What it takes to keep humans alive and comfortable might be meaningless to another species.
The rare earth hypothesis is more and more likely the more we learn about space.
There are no other places in our solar system that are innately suitable for human life. The nearest solar system is 4 light years away. So yeah, light years away.
That said, space is big on a scale we cannot possibly fathom. So while it may be statistically unlikely for an individual solar system to have an earth-like planet, its likely there are many millions of them in our universe.
It's fairly easy to make a livable space in space though … you know, within the context of living in space. You just have to use rotation as replacement for gravity. If you make the shell out of steel enforced pykrete, for instance, then you have the radiation shield along with a very strong structure. So if only we could find a way to get large amounts of water into space, a lot would be done. But this also means that we could have such a habitat in orbit around Mars or Titan, so that we could have quick and easy access to the surface, while living comfortably in orbit.
We currently have two astronauts stranded on the space station. Imagine trying to rescue people from Titan. It takes years to get there and years to get back.
eso pasa cuando sacamos dinero de investigaciones y las invertimos en sector armamentistas
Why not Ganymede? It's closer than Titan, it actually leaks oxygen and has a salty ocean underneath its icy surface
I honestly think it has to do with the fact that there is no solid ground the entire surface is just glaciers that sit on top a sea, not only that but the glaciers are being constantly shifted by the gravitational pull of Jupiter meaning you can really build anything perminate on it
why not Uranus?
Ganymede is radioactive due to Jupiter, being ~4 times the safe dosage from radiation sickness (ignore cancer). On the other hand, Callisto has a dose of a mere 0.1mSv, which is safe enough for humans to live on.
I think water randomly shoots up to the surface there. Sounds dangerous.
What is the difference between having to stay indoors/underground because of cold and unbreathable atmosphere and having to stay indoors/underground because of cold, unbreathable atmosphere and radiation?
One is much further away. Titan despight the cold seems the better option though. Lifting off from it is also easier.
Unless you're building something in existing underground caverns, then you would have to excavate first. That means heavy machinery would be required, increasing the difficulty in creating habitats.
For Mars, you'd need to find very large caverns or lava tubes to make underground bases practical in the near term. Transporting a boring machine and getting it to function on alien geology is a challenge unto itself - even here on Earth it isn't that simple
Because Titan has the resources capable of changing that condition. On Mars, it will never (not on any meaningfully short time line) change. Titan supplies enough energy that humans would figure it out and alter it.
@@Redmenace96 Melting the moon that you want to build on seems like it would just get you a different set of problems.
@@cylontoaster7660
"For Mars, you'd need to find very large caverns or lava tubes to make underground bases practical in the near term. "
Those lava tubes are known to exist already, so this isn't really a barrier on Mars. 🙂
On titan, you don't necessarily have to be underground, but it's much further away than Mars, which is a barrier, and it's more likely to currently have life, which would be an ethical issue to some extent. 🙂
Titan 🪐will be a promising place for human beings to live in the future. I find the temperature problematic, since with new space rockets that travel faster, the distance problem will be solved.❤
I think that much easier would be to do smaller steps. Start with the base on the Moon, build some factories there, then do the same on the Mars.
This is the debate what the smaller step is.. there are arguments why Mars may be easier than Moon, since you have way more resources in your vicinity. The biggest problem with Mars is tough, you need again rocket to come back up, and for it you'd need to be able to make fuel there.. taking the fuel for the return trip with you is not feasible... a one way trip would be doable now.. only no one (as in a space program financing this, not some lunatic) wants to.
@@georgelionon9050 yeah, and taking off from Titan takes only slightly more than leaving the Moon, but there are the materials to make fuel for the return trip.
And the flight (without gravity assists from Jupiter) would take only 50% more than one to Mars. And the flight to Mars is getting to LEO, and then the rest.
The first colony being on our moon just seems like such a no brainer. Creating literally a jumping off point to the rest of our solar system. Its only two weeks away, you build it on the dark side of the moon to limit solar radiation. Power it with a solar tower, which given the gravity of the moon, is an easy fabrication and maintenance object. While one does have to accept that there is little in the way of resources on the moon, and certainly minimal amounts of terrestrial study to be undertaken, there will still be a mountain of space data to consume. And in the end of the day, it will be a way station Lets start with a doable, feasible and safer colony before we let our britches get to big.
@@thecocktailian2091 there is no "dark" side of the moon, there is one said that never faces earth.. but that does mean little to solar radiation. And it certainly not a no brainer, the advantage of a moon is that is relatively close, but thats all about that. The question still is open if this means any meaningful, why need that stop? It is debatble, but certainly not a "no brainer"..
@@georgelionon9050 well im certainly no cosmologist, so I shall leave it to you and your decades of scientific research and education. But from my arm chair commanders seat and my 100's of hours playing No Mans Sky, no brainer for me.
I am not even sure it would be possible to stand upright on Titan currently. How cold is it? Even if you had a suit that could stand the cold..the surface contact point with the suit would have a heat difference and the reaction would be worse than standing on the most slippery of ices.
Ice skates, my friend, ice skates!
Even if we had a solution to those problems, there's one major glaring issue that a lot of people seem not to recognize with Titan in particular. Titan is a world dominated by hydrocarbons, both in terms of atmospheric content as well as surface fluid and precipitation. And the problem with that is humans need oxygen to breathe and food to eat, both of which would normally come from plants via farming. But that in and of itself risks the possibility of a planet-wide catastrophe, because the moment oxygen mixes with hydrocarbons or vice versa, it's only a matter of time before a chain reaction is set off resulting in a deadly explosion.
@@jeffreyerwin3665 Wouldn't work. Titan is so cold water ice would be frozen harder than steel.
Could we develope heated blades for our ice skates?@@timothyvanhoeck233
Ice only gets slippery when partially melted, under Titan conditions it is basically rock and would not be the least slippery.
I wonder if a lander experiment is in order… containing a fungus or tube worm colony, not requiring photosynthesis, with an RTG to keep it warm, exposed to small amounts of warmed Titan atmosphere, and a robot gardener in attendance- could it survive?
You may not need to be underground, but it might not be a bad idea to be at least partially submerged. I mean weather could still damage things, and you could have failed pressure seals from fatigue of use. You would still want multiple redundant seals and enclosures between the people and the outside. Seasons and weather in general also means materials will expand and contract as the temperatures change, and that could be a problem over a long period of time.
Remember, Mars does has a moon spiraling in, 50 million years they sat but its still coming.
@@seansimms8503 I think that's far enough out to not be an immediate concern lol
Ive always wanted to know exactly how Titan is better than Mars to colonize. Thank you for clearing things up!
But it didn't clear anything, is not better, is worse.
Titan's gravity is far too low for humans to survive long term, and it's much too far away. It's not feasible.
the first one to get there will be military, them they will create wars.
I agree with you, but he did end by saying "probably in a matter of centuries". I think Rotating space stations with water protecting the occupants is the answer. We can send robots to get resources from such distant places. The Moon, Mars and the asteroid belt should be able to provide most of what we want in space though. No one will want to live permanently on any of these bodies. However, we could return the Earth to a more habitable place for life in general if we can put most industry and food production off world. @@Christobanistan
@@Christobanistan I feel the gravity is not really an issue, only downside is returning to earth would be a pain on the body.
7:15 - I really prefer the dress code on Titan. OK, you've convinced me!
I still think floating habitats on Venus would be a fun and workable trial for extra-planetary exploration. You can have floating habitats at around 30ish miles up, and still maintain protection from radiation with the thick atmosphere above you. The habitat could ride the winds and circle the planet every 48 hours giving a reasonable day/night cycle. You have close to Earth gravity and ample access to solar and wind generated power.
The big problem of course is access to materials, and that we need improved marerials that can withstand sulfuric acid clouds. But damn it would be fun!
And durability of the floating craft. If it ever loses buoyancy, you are doomed to a very painful death.
@@paulmichaelfreedman8334 IDK, kind of a reverse of "It's not the fall that kills you, it's the landing." one level up. We've had buoyancy mastered for over a thousand years. It's more steering and structural integrity that are the problems. Yes, the Hindenberg, the Titanic, and the Challenger all sank back to their local density equilibria but everyone involved in every place was having a very bad day well before any lack of altitude became an issue.
@@adamlucas4753 Well, I'd agree with you normally but the fact of the matter is that if you were to fall into the atmosphere of Venus you'd be melted and cooked and reduced to carbon residue before you hit the ground. Seems quite painful to me. Oh and due to the atmosphere being 90 times denser, in the lower atmosphere where the sulphuric acid concentration is highest, your terminal velocity would be like floating to the ground, very slowly, at most tens of kilometers per hour. Your cooked and compressed sludge would hit the ground at a speed you normally would not die from. Like how snow falls to the ground.
@@paulmichaelfreedman8334 You'd normally agree with me but, like an idiot who didn't understand a word I wrote, you'd prefer to restate in concrete detail *precisely* what I said? I know you always want to be right, but you've contradicted yourself and you can't have it both ways. So, which is it, is buoyancy an issue or would "Your cooked and compressed sludge hit the ground at a speed you normally would not die from." because, just like with the Titanic or the Hindenburg being more buoyant doesn't prevent you from being cooked or frozen to death (or dissolved) even if you maintain buoyancy/altitude. We have ships today that have been floating for over a century, when they sink, they predominantly don't sink from a leak or spontaneous rupture nearly as often as they strike something or are struck or experience turbulence/shear forces that their structure wasn't meant to withstand. None of which is solved or even addressed by buoyancy issues and which is addressed by steering and or better structural design.
@@adamlucas4753 My goodness, don't you feel attacked. Relax man, it's only the YT comment section.
Titan has ALWAYS been a big favourite from me, just the fact that you wouldn’t die from burning, drowning, crushing or ripping. You die mostly from lack of oxygen. We only need to fix temperature and oxygen and it would be an instant home.
Yeah that sounds fast and easy. And on holidays we could go to Venus to get a tan.
@@puliturchannel7225 don't have to be so literal, you know what he meant
I wasn't being literal, on the contrary that was irony. @@neutrino78x
@@puliturchannel7225😂
@puliturchannel7225 I mean, we can nuke the planet to see if we can build a breathable atmosphere may take years, but may work
Saturn's minimum distance from Earth is 20 times Mars's. The end.
I would take a floating city on Venus (above the sulfuric acid clouds) over Mars or Titan any day.
me too
a literal hell below you
@@ZygonesBzygones
Just don't fall 😬
And how, pray, does it stay afloat? Sky hooks?
Good luck if you cant send a message to Earth or being with your Floating Habitat if something goes wrong.
If only we started with a planet that was perfect for life
@@J.C.1966 It isn't perfect - which is why we invented houses to live in.
poor old Terra is just too hospitable, she all but demands to be abused and ravaged
Titan, Mars and Luna will promptly kill you if you do not watch your ecology closely
@@jessepollard7132 you realize not everyone lives in houses right? Not everyone needs the same luxuries
Nothing lasts forever. The countless extinctions and the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs should be a testament to that. Having all humanity in one basket assures our end.
@takotako808 Shelter is a necessity no matter what it looks like. Be it sticks or stone, humans need shelter from the elements.
How do you burn methane and ethane though when there's no oxygen? And how do you fix the nitrogen in the air to organic compounds in large scale when there's no liquid water available on the surface?
Generate oxygen through electrolysis of water with fusion energy. You fix nitrogen from methane though the use of methanotrophic bacteria with also generate CO2. CO2 can be used to grow plants for food and more oxygen which you can breath with or use to burn more fuel.
Minor quibble - you referred to Titan's methane and ethane as an abundant fuel supply. They are only fuel here due to Earth's oxygen-rich atmosphere. On Titan they are pretty much inert unless you want a supply of hydrogen for nuclear propulsion.
Or just bring oxygen with you, although you'd need to replenish the supply and that means water mining and splitting, which is a very energy intensive process.
Since Solar is in short supply out there, geothermal is a slim possibility (Titan has "Cryo-volcanism") and unless you can make enough energy burning hydrocarbons USING Oxygen made from splitting ICE to make enough power to PRODUCE Oxygen from splitting ICE (Hint: You can't :( ), you'd probably need something like a small nuclear reactor/thorium reactor.
You could even design jet aircraft that carry Oxygen onboard in place of fuel and intake Methane from the environment instead of Oxygen.
Neat huh?
the video talked about extracting oxygen from the frozen water.... Of course, that would take (plenty of) energy!
good point
@@MDE_never_dies *explota a la menor fuga...
They would harvest oxygen from Titan's large reserve of frozen water underground . Then use electrolysis by putting a electric current through water to separate the H2 and O from each other to get oxygen . You'll need to have nuclear reactors to supply electricity for the colony etc to be more efficient and use methane as spaceship fuel to travel between moons for other resources , for aircraft and land vehicles too. The hydrogen can be used to fill up airships to move people and cargo across the planet which will be easier since it has lower gravity and no oxygen in atmosphere to catch on fire making it easier to work. Saturn's moon Enceladus has phosphorus to use , also deuterium and helium 3 for nuclear fuel for electricity and long range spaceships .
I think in time we should colonize or at least set up a colony or at least a space station in just about every planet and or moon. The moon, Mars, and Venus are the best places to start because they need to be starting points to help us get to other planets / moons.
who will resupply other planet stations, only colonies should have space stations
Agreed, but I'm skeptical regarding Venus due to her extremely harsh conditions (heat, pressure, acid rain).
@@goldfing5898 The key to Venus right now is living in the atmosphere in cloud cities until our technology advances enough to be able to go there comfortably. maybe in a couple 100 years we'll be able to terraform the planet or we'll the shield technology or ways to adapt and be able to oi there.
@@Aaramliaswe just need to get holzmans antigravity generator theorem right 😂
@@patrickday4206 Has someone already got a start on anti-grav? If so that would be awesome!!
Lastima de la información por favor arreglen o editen su audio, se encima con otra que le dejaron, lastima pero desespera.
Titan lacks enough gravity and phosphorus.
Yikes!
To be fair, you could build spinning habitats and may be lucky to find reserves of phosphorus on Titan or nearby moons, asteroids etc.
But Mars will be uninhabitable again once the sun starts expanding Jovian moons will be better because they will last.
@@okidokidraws I hope you realise we can do much more than colonise the solar system with 5billion years handy
There is a much bigger problem than there being low gravity. Considering it'd take around a decade to reach titan. Not only would it be impossible to respond to an emergency. No astronaut has ever spent close to 10years in space, and even when people return from long stays in space they can't walk immediately after returning to earth. And its safe to say that when anyone makes it to titan in a nearby hypothetical mission they would have nobody around to teach them how to walk again.
@@clarko-ow5oq I'm just saying Terraforming mars is a waste of time when we can Colonize the outer planets for a longer time frame Mars has too many problems to Terraform
Titan gravity is about the same as lunar gravity, a bit inconvenient but easy to adapt to given time.
Also I think having both Sunrise-Sunset and Planetrise-Planetset is cooler than having only one
Imagine being a child and growing up with that.
Considering Titan gets 1% of the sunlight the Earth gets I doubt it would be much of a sunrise. At that point it might as well be just another star in the sky.
Titan is tidally locked to Saturn, the planet will be permamently looming over one spot of the moon.
I think Earth is fine. I'll just stay here.
I like the idea that you could send a colony there and it would be self sufficient, you wouldn't have to be resupplied by earth like you would on mars or the moon.
14% Earth gravity is likely not enough for huamns to survive long term.
@@Christobanistanwe genuinely have no idea. We might be able to work it out. The issue I have is that I don't see why you would expect access to building materials. There will be mountains, but probably made of ice. I don't think a colony would have access to enough mineral material to be self sufficient and grow, and I don't see any economic advantages to going there. At best it would be a penal colony, but even those were expected to be self sufficient.
@@agsystems8220 *se llena de britanicos😅😅
I like the idea of floating cities in the upper atmosphere of venus. At the right altitude you've got 80 degrees Fahrenheit and about the same gravity as well as being a planet away.
I think the same gravity on a floating city is a bit of a stretch, temperature is totally doable
@@davidsnow2653 We're talking "floating", not "orbiting". A venus-atmospheric floating city wouldn't be going anywhere near as fast as orbit, and the gravity felt by those aboard it wouldn't be much different than Venus' 8.97m/s^2.
High gravity is overrated honestly, Mars has a good gravity level, livable indefinitely but very easy to launch from if you want to go anywhere.
@@tehScribbles Mars has just a tad over 1/3 the gravity of earth. A 200lb. man would weigh around 70 lbs. Not even close to livable long term. All kinds of bad health outcomes.
I don't see any human colonies anywhere....perhaps a research station on the moon, 'cause it's a few days away...anything else is a suicide mission I'd say.
With the advances now made with A.I., we could send up terminator style robots to do the dirty work for us. Best case scenario. Next century we might have better tech for human colonies... but clearly not quite yet.
There's basically no benefit to colonizing the atmosphere of venus because you can't take advantage of the resources on the surface.
What an incredible video Guys !! Thank you all !! much appreciated
I loved the depiction of the various options for colonisation I. "The expanse". I suspect though that anything more than an outpost will require major AI robotic geoengineering. In that context Mars is easier because of the solar power. Though if there was a way to reduce venus' atmosphere by fixing the carbon, the woukd be best
What is the benefit of trying to colonise Mars?
@@taketwo_duo The same kinds of reasons people on Earth traveled to and colonized other lands in human history. The desire to escape from persecution, to find new room to expand and grow their tribe, to obtain more resources, etc.
@@CaptainOverkill Yes exactly my point, greed.
Venus' problem isn't the carbon dioxide, it's the sheer volume of the total atmosphere.
As an example, I point to Mars, which has more CO2 in its atmosphere than we do (about double the volume)... and yet it doesn't really do anything for the temperature. (Mars and Venus both have 95% CO2 atmospheres, though Mars' has WAY less total volume of everything.)
If you want to cool Venus, you have physically remove a large chunk of its atmosphere entirely, which would be difficult because the gravity obviously wants to keep it there. Actually, plant life could manage the job, too... if you could keep them alive long enough. But that would be quite the trick in that heat/pressure.
@@Swiftbow And the rest of Venus's atmosphere is sulphuric acid.
Already learned something: I thought the moons of Jupiter were leading candidates. I thought Titan was a moon of Jupiter.
Thank you!
the first one to get there will be military, them they will create wars.
Venus is actually an interesting place as far as a possible colony goes. Not the surface. But some parts of the atmosphere could actually be used by air ships. In Theory.
It's gravity is also 91% of Earth's which is far better than Mars, and especially Titan.
@@Christobanistan That might actually be even the most important aspect.
People often glance over it like as it doesn't mean anything. But when you lookt at it in detail the low gravity on Mars would actually be a very serious problem. And one that's not easy to overcome. Almost everything could be, in theory, solved. Radiation, dust, lack of water and very low temperatures. But low gravity? That's a tough nut to crack because our biology can not adjust to it.
@@CrniWukMars' 37% gravity is very probably enough for us to survive without health issues, while making things significantly easier to lift.
@@Christobanistan I am not so sure about that.
"Abstract
It is well known that long-term exposure to microgravity causes a number of physiological and biochemical changes in humans; among the most significant are: 1) negative calcium balance resulting in the loss of bone; 2) atrophy of antigravity muscles; 3) fluid shifts and decreased plasma volume; and 4) cardiovascular deconditioning that leads to orthostatic intolerance. It is estimated that a mission to Mars may require up to 300 days in a microgravity environment; in the case of an aborted mission, the astronauts may have to remain in reduced gravity for up to three years. Although the Soviet Union has shown that exercise countermeasures appear to be adequate for exposures of up to one year in space, it is questionable whether astronauts could or should have to maintain such regimes for extremely prolonged missions. Therefore, the NASA Life Sciences Division has initiated a program designed to evaluate a number of methods for providing an artificial gravity environment."
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11536970/#:~:text=It%20is%20well%20known%20that,plasma%20volume%3B%20and%204)%20cardiovascular
We're talking about long term exposure here. Like having eventually a colony. Spending eventually years on the surface with low gravity. And the longer the exposure is, the more difficult is it to counter it. And the effects can be very severe over time.
It definetly will be a serious problem for any long term mission. Leave alone "living" in such conditions.
We could have solar powered airships growing food and producing oxygen right now 38 miles above the surface of Venus. NASA already has an unfunded program: HAVOC.
Loved the video, hated the ending. Wish we could go there now. You successfully sold me on the benefits of Titan over Mars
We can't go even to the moon. Just like he says in the video at 4:05
Plus the fact that it would take MANY years to get there on a ship
why bother with the ship? Teleportation!
Well researched and accurate video very enjoyable. Nice work production team 👌👏🙏👍
Thanks a lot! 😊 We're glad you enjoyed it.
The close proximity of our moon makes it the prime candidate for a permanent station.
Exactly. Especially when you consider the ability to live in underground tunnels on Mars which helps with radiation and could potentially provide water from ice. Plus, we can always magnify the sunlight coming down into the tunnels through creative ways.
Seems kinda odd to be honest. Why wouldn’t we just build a space colony in orbit of our current planet that is custom fitted for our survival and comfort rather then trying to live in rat tunnels underground on a hostile to all life environment that is billions of miles away?
@@Rykojames cost, area potential, breathing room, resource allocation, natural resources needed for long term survivability, and another few hundred examples we can list to you if needed. Really think about your question and why it’s a terrible idea compared to opening a colony on Mars, moons around Jupiter and Saturn, etc instead. Planets and moons provide tons of resources, protection from radiation, etc whereas building an orbital station requires taking and finding all the resources needed to that station to build. Just take water and radiation protection as two examples. Do you get what we’re saying on why opening and growing a base on Mars is smarter in terms of a human colony?
@@ttrestle I have thought about it.. Which is why I can't think of a single reason why it makes any sense to colonize a planet ever.. Even if it was an exact clone of Earth.
I think you might be having a misunderstanding of the difference between what a "colony" and an "outpost" is... Of course it makes sense to create mining outpost to gather resources off them.
I'm not sure how you can suggest cost is in the favor of colonizing planets over orbital space colonies.. Every single cost that is required to build a space colony would be required to building habitat on an uninhabitable planet.. Except you have to 100x all of it for the cost of fuel to transport it all billions of miles instead of just having it in orbit. You need all of the same stuff to colonize an uninhabitable planet as you do to make a space station... Except on top of it you also need to have protection against earth quakes, bad weather, and other natural disasters that come along with being on a planet.
Area potential? Are you serious? There is enough room in our orbit around the sun alone for like 18,000 planet sized space colonies.. And several billion within the entirety of the 3D habitable zone of our solar system. And they would all be in our back yard instead of 40,000 years of travel away.
Long term survivability? I don't understand how not being subjected to a planets natural disasters is a detriment to survivability. Maybe you should give me some of those "hundreds of examples" that you can list for me.
"water and radiation"... If a planet doesn't have an atmosphere or magnetic field then you are going to have to take every single measure to build a habitable colony on the surface of that planet/moon that you would have to take to build one in orbit. Except youll have to additionally build protections against earth quakes, giant sand storms, uncomfortable levels of gravity, and every other natural disasters.. Combined with being totally immobile and unable to just move out of the way of potential impacts.
Anyways, I'm having a slow weekend.. Feel free to give me your hundreds of example so I can dismantle them. Itll be fun and maybe youll be the first person ever to bring up something I haven't already thought of.
@@ttrestle Come on man your fuckin up my weekend.. Give me those 100s of example you talked about.
@@Rykojames I have faith you can figure on your own
The idea of living on either of those two is ridiculous. You can't even go outside. They're not conducive to life.
Not commenting to hate, but the opposite. This is the first video you've posted (that I'm aware of) that actually caught my attention due to the uniqueness of the topic, in awhile. Please keep posting around newish debatable talks 🙏🍿 Always sticking around though.
The video creator is still woefully ignorant on the science to which he discusses however.
@AF5IU Just because it did not fit your interpretation of what it was supposed to be, doesn't mean it's clickbait. He talked about the differences based off his opinion just like the title literally states.
@@timothyvanhoeck233 To say one is ignorant towards things without providing context is ignorant in itself, a safer approach to calling someone out. Please elaborate.
@@_GuzJ To start, he flat out mislabeled the moon as a "planet" within the first minute of the video. That automatically places red flags on the guy's credibility.
More importantly, he claims Titan isn't flammable due to a lack of oxygen, which may be true if Titan is left in its natural state, but in a video discussing the possibility of colonizing Titan, the fact he leaves out the glaring issue that in order to do so you would need to import vast amounts of oxygen onto the world, thereby risking a global catastrophe, is a pretty damn significant omission of inconvenient facts.
Add that to the additional oxygen produced via farming, and you may as well be planning to blow up and/or incinerate the entire freaking moon at that point.
@@_GuzJ It's the textbook definition of click-bait. Just because you're wowed by the above video doesn't make it not click-bait. If you truly knew anything about the topic to which the video creator discusses, you would instantly recognize that there are a number of glaring omissions made that are inconvenient to that which he's shilling.
Great channel for those who never graduated high school.
And those who haven’t mastered critical thinking.
May I please be allowed to join your hyper intelligent people's club? Mwah mwah mwah 💋
@@gpwnedable who says it requires hyper intelligence? Just a fair amount is ample.
LOL. Sad, but true.
Human beings will never colonise another planet. We exist on this one due to many factors being just right for us that cannot be replicated anywhere else.
Very nice and interesting video. The analysis is relevant, Titan will be an attractive place to colonize despite its distance after Mars. However, there is Ganymede which is less distant (in comparison with Titan) and where there is water.
There is water yes but the surface is under water meaning what your landing and building on are glaciers that are constantly being shifted by Jupiter's pull so yeah it has thing titan doesnt but its also just a whole lot more compictated when actually trying to set somthing perminent
@@Cameron39829 You are thinking of Europa
Could we build artificial magnetic protection around the space craft and habitat area? Superconducting wire in coils ran around the habitat? That would seem like the best option for mars or the moon
BSCCO has a critical temperature of 108K, so that would be possible, but to get any kind of practical current, we'd still need liquid nitrogen.
There is also LaH10 that works at 250 K, but only at 1.7 million atmospheres of pressure.
if we're going to put the capsules on the surface, as opposed to finding a naturally occurring large lava tube, what you can do is just bury them (using robots). 🙂
Thanks @Kyle Hill i can spot out these science content mills allot faster now
I personally am in favor of building O'Neill cylinders in Earth Orbit as the next step. You got no hassle with terraforming or insulating against a hostile atmosphere and you got the shortest supply routes. If you use a small comet as a water source and an asteroid for building materials, you can save a lot of the construction costs. I have seen estimates that a cylinder could be built for 5-10k USD per sqm, around the same as a building in New York or Tokyo.
sorry, O'Neill cylinders were NEVER intended to be in Earth Orbit. (tidal forces would tear them apart). They were intended for the L4 position, which is far enough away to be relatively stable (which means they still need to have station keeping capability or they drift elsewhere... including falling into the Earth or into the Sun.
@@jessepollard7132 Yes, ofc I was thinking about the L-points. Especially L4 and L5.... which are in the exact same solar orbit as Earth. And anything inside is stable, just look at the Trojans and Greek asteroids caught in Jupiters L4 and L5. respectively.
But any cylinder needs a station keeping drive and control systems to keep its rotation stable, that also goes without saying,
Nevertheless, it will be easier to put a cylinder in such a relatively close point to Earth rather than terraform a planet or a moon an order of magnitude further away.
Thumbs up, but can you reference a description of, "comet water source" and "asteroid building material" ? How do you capture/control those?
@@Redmenace96 I got this from a decades old scifi story. Spacers were dependent on Earth and Earth charged a lot for water, so they took one of their spaceships, more or less docked it to a big chunk of ice in the rings of Saturn and offered water back to Earth for bargain prices 😛
This is utterly possible when you use a nuclear reactor (fission or fusion) as energy source and an ion drive. The water is not just for drinking but also coolant and rocket propellant.
It is possible to get to Saturn in a few weeks with current tech, if only you want to.
Or you take a lot longer, get a satellite with solar panels and some telescopic arms, again fly it out to Saturns rings, have it anchor itself to a frozen swimming pool worth of ice and do a minimal burn for a Homan transfer orbit. And if you got like a hundred of those satellites, you easily got sufficient ice coming in for any need.
And asteroids are similar and even easier to catch once you found them. Just don't choose the fastest ones.
The biggest problem in working on stuff in zero-g is recoil. But capturing things with telescope arms or some kind of net is possible and there was a mission a while back capturing an old satellite, so it got tried in space in the real world. And if you secure both sides, you can even drill or mill or smelt something, just capture any spalling.
Funny story about that is the "Live free or Die" / "Troy Rising" series by John Ringo.
He slaps an Orion drive on a big asteroid and got some tunnels inside and presto, you got a battlewagon that moves very slowly but got miles and miles of armor.
You can read the first few chapters on "baen" for free.
Wait a second. I know you said titan isn’t flameable since there is no oxygen in its atmosphere… but what if you need to put oxygen in your titan base? Wouldn’t it ignite the moon in a firey inferno
No. For the same reason you can light a match on Earth without the room catching fire. Nitrogen is an inert gas and even throwing a lit match into one of Titans methane lakes wouldn't light it on fire. It's way too cold for that to happen and you'd need a substantial amount of oxygen. Inside the base, the risk of fires would be comparable (likely much lower) to the risk of your house spontaneously catching fire.
@@totalermist oh… even though methane in it of itself is flameable?
@@Jameswebbtelescope7484Methane doesn't burn without oxygen - it's CH4 and requires oxygen to burn into CO2 and water.
Flammable only means that something can burn in the presence of an oxidiser (or oxygen in general) and most substances need a certain ignition energy as well. Take away the oxygen and things can't burn, even if they are otherwise flammable.
@@totalermist ah and plus you won’t even be able to light a match with out the presence of oxygen.
The small amount of oxygen would quickly be exhausted, just like a methane (natural gas) leak that ignites on earth won't set the whole planet on fire. The potential for gas leaks is another problem though. If methane from the atmosphere leaks into the base then you have an explosive mixture inside, just like a gas leak inside a house on earth.
Terraforming Titan by increasing the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere without removing the methane will result in having that flammable/explosive mixture everywhere.
What's the use of liquid and solid carbo-hydrates when you are lacking oxygen to burn them?
In the near term, cloud cities in the upper atmosphere of Venus might be a better bet. Do a little asteroid mining for raw materials and water and just chuck it into the atmosphere of Venus. Parachutes and balloons could work for delivery systems in atmosphere. Robotic mining on the nightside of Mercury might also supply building materials. You could get water from the sulfuric acid clouds in the Venusian atmosphere, but it would be a chore.
Venus' soil bed is technically the clouds themselves. On Earth, the soil bed is at rest.
Venus atmosphere is mainly CO2 and H2SO4 which allows you to make water (H20) from electrolysis.
Getting nitrogen for air might be more of a chore.
@-whackd I know next to nothing about Chemistry, but doesn't the H2S04 need to be dissolved in water before the electrolysis takes place? So you would need water to make water? Is the H2S04 preferentially consumed before most of the water? While reading up on some chemical reactions that might be useful, I saw this one: "Carbon reacts with sulfuric acid to produce carbon dioxide and sulfur dioxide gas along with water. Sulfuric acid should be a concentrated, heated solution." Plenty of carbon(C02) and Sulfuric acid on Venus.
Cloud cities would be quite prone to accidents (or intentional sabotage), they're a cool idea but they'll always remain that.
@@THEBEEEANSS Well, at least we can agree it's a cool idea!
Let's talk about this in 200-300 years from now on. Right now we are not even able to send people to the Moon.
What do you mean we aren’t able to send people to the moon? Choosing not to is a lot different than not being able to.
@@matthewhuszarik4173 right now nobody is able to safely send people to the Moon. Not NASA, not SpaceX, not China, not India, NO ONE. Imagining that we could send people to Titan with the technology we have now and in the next decades is totally unrealistic. For Mars we need at least another 100 years. For Titan significantly more.
@@3dfxvoodoocards6 Just let them think people went to the moon - it makes life easier to cope with for them
you mean, for permanent habitation?
So true
We're talking (at the VERY LEAST) 30- 50 YEARS FOR MARS, 2-300 YEARS FOR TITAN - REALISTICALLY.
It could take a long time. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
If we had the tech and resources to "teraform" Mars or Titan, then it would be way easier and more logical to maintain the planet we already have. You'd need bases on the moon and on Mars for the infrastructure necessary to set up anything on Titan, and the timing window for launches would be very small. I just find it funny that we don't even know our own oceans, and yet we think about occupying other celestial bodies.
being stuck on 1 floating rock = inevitable extinction
@eclipse369. I get the whole concept of spread out and mitigate one event from wiping everything out, but where we are at, any attempt to establish ourselves on another planet wouldn't be sustainable and would rely on our "mother" planet for a long time, if not indefinitely. Well at least long enough for the home planet to be rendered incapable of future support... = extinction
I believe that it may be possible to use different planets and moons to harvest their resources, that can supply large space stations throughout our solar system. We need faster and bigger ships that can also haul resources to and froe. I am a firm believer in the need to have very similar gravity as earth and that may be best created on rotating space habitats at least 1 km in diameter so they say. Imagine trying to build an underground spinning habitat underground on Mars? That might be like trying to build the Hoover Dam on earth. How to power that habitat? Mars has a gravity well, and is very hard to land ships of any kind on such as supply ships containing resources. This moon called Titan might be an excellent place to have a large Space Habitat that could house hundreds of thousands or more people. This habitat could be in space in orbit around the moon and be spinning to create gravity. There could also be a mining colony there to harvest that abundant Methane for fuel. It should be easy to get it off that planet with the low gravity well there. Water may also be harvested, but large amounts of water may be better harvested somewhere else and imported to that area to create drinking water and oxygen to burn the methane. This Methane may be able to be exported to a number of locations in the Solar system to be used for fuel to burn in space for energy. You wouldn't be sending it to Earth for a number of reasons, but there may be Space Habitats orbiting Earth that could use it.
Yes but some colonies could be robots 🤖
We don't need stations to be that large. And also those stations should be inside asteroids to protect from radiation
It's the coldness. I heard a someone talk about living on Titan on the radio, about all the benefits. However, having gone to work and sometimes even working outside in -30 Celsius weather (for brief periods) , for a human existing in a -180 environment is only possible in one form and that form is a solid frozen object. Even if one had a suit on, any glass to see through would fog up and ice over instantly rendering one blind, rubber used to seal the suit would become hard, brittle and ineffective. The glass that is now covered with ice will crack and shatter due to temperature difference between inside and outside. Yes outer space is cold but it's also a vacuum and a vacuum insulates. On Titan one is surrounded by a bitterly cold medium that'll just suck all the heat out of everything. There will be a host of other problems for sure that we will learn once there. So yeah, it'll never happen. IMHO.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
The upper atmosphere of Venus at one atmosphere is far more habitable. You get nearly the same gravity and temperature as Earth, protection from radiation, at one atmosphere.
Yes, main problem is the engineering required to create the perfect floating city that can never fail ever almost 5 years distant from earth is thousands of years in the future. In the long, long term I would agree that's the best place for humans in the solar system
Um...you're forgetting one teensy tiny little detail: those lethal clouds of highly corrosive sulfuric acid.
@@timothyvanhoeck233 No , I'm not forgetting that. The occupants would obviously be inside a floating habitation, not flying around in the open like birds.
@@caezar55 5 years ???
It takes 3 - 6 months to Venus with current technology for space probes, and the technology for a floating habitat already exists. Of course an elaborate "city" with all the comforts of home is a distant dream.
Not to mention living in a city floating in the sky is more appealing than in a city underground. If you cannot go outside, at least you need a nice view.
I would think Saturn's radiation would make it almost impossible to colonize Titan.
eh?
@@ZygonesBzygones Magnetic fields traps high energy particles like in Earth's Van Allen belts.
Go listen to the Sounds of Saturn that Cassini recorded, it'll change your entire outlook on Saturn
We can't even colonize the Sahara desert or Antarctica
There are people that live in the Sahara believe it or not, tuaregs, & bedouins.
Uhh, Titan is 5x farther from Earth than Mars. Maybe repost this vid in 100 years and let’s talk about it then.
Who in the world would chose this over living on Earth.
If given the choice, many millions.
Pioneering is a powerful drive for our species. One that many would be willing to risk their lives for, let alone do without a couple of earthly comforts.
Living on Mars is so much better than living in a space station in Earth orbit and there's plenty who'd love that too.
Instead you have gravity, only a third so you finally use that weight.
Plus there's a whole planet to explore! Even if much of that would be underground (certainly not all of it) people squeeze between rocks for pleasure on Earth.
As the new frontier, the challenges that need to be overcome would also make it a pressure cooker for science and technology. It would be immensely exciting for many to experience and be part of that.
@@CitizenMio It would be a 100 times easier and 10,000 times cheaper to colonize Antarctica and we can't even do that.
@@apb38 Where would be the fun in that? We do these things not because they are easy but because they are hard.
We absolutely can and would fully colonise Antarctica. Except nobody is allowed to, because the whole continent is subject to the Antarctic Treaty and has been for 1961. There were already 55 research stations on the continent at that time.
Antarctica's value to research (and holding off global nuclear war) is far greater than its value as a residential area.
However, as stated before. People do live there year round. We could absolutely turn in into the next dubai and people would go shopping there and see the sights. Hotels on Antarctica would be pretty popular.
Though nothing like what a space hotel or a mars hotel could draw if there were no other boundaries than a willingness to go there.
Territorial claims with tense political outcomes are actually one of the challenges people colonising other planets and moons will have to overcome.
Scientific treaties like the Antarctica treaty will no doubt be very relevant in the initial years at least. Eventually though, as more and more people start to live there, they will need their own rules.
Long term independence is pretty much inevitable. It would also be pretty stupid for the people so proudly claiming their own independence to deny it others.
Lots of human stuff will happen, it always does. But it will be the next frontier.
Until eventually spreading out to other worlds might mean we actually survive one of the many inevitable disasters that would wipe out humans on Earth. We'd get to live on as a species, keep on carrying the torch of being the only life and sentient species that we know of in the universe currently. Though I hope we behave a bit more worthy by then.
@@CitizenMio i have dreamed of leaving earth since i was a boy i would go there and help build what you say so true have you read the three body problem books amazing story people who have doubts about mars and interplanetary life should give that book a read or listen to even listen to the youtuber quinn’s ideas he does all sorts of science fiction audiobooks and breakdowns
@anthonycassidy1124
I've watched the show, but haven't read the books yet. I hear it's a lot clearer with some of the logic than the show, so I do want to give them a go soon.
Have you read the Red, Green, Blue Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson? It's basically the Mars colony bible xD
Including all the politics that will undoubtedly mess with things.
If you’re talking long term colony, I’d be concerned about children born in such a low gravity environment
Evolution of the human species
Would be soo cool to live in an era of colonies on Titan.. to see all the stuff going on there
This video just keeps getting stupider. "This is a problem for which no solution has been found" There are several proposed solutions. Nothing cheap or easy, but what is? Colonizing Titan would not be easy or cheap either. You're just going to ignore the problems with Titan like the distance from Earth. The radiation of the 20 year trip to Titan. The astronauts muscles would be atrophied when they got there. They would be half blind if not completely blind from the trip. Supplying the colony would be very difficult so they would need to be 100% self sufficient. How would they stay warm at negative 300 degrees? How would they grow food and replenish oxygen with almost no light? You keep talking about Titan has fuel. No. The methane is useless without oxygen. So you can't heat and light the colony with methane. So in reality it is not possible with current technology. Hydrogen, Methane, Ethane, is all useless without oxygen. "Nitrogen can grow crops" Not in minus 300 degrees with no light.
Thank you! Jeez! Without even viewing this video that was my thought. Titan is just way too far away from earth. Earth needs a jump off point to make traveling to other planets feasible. Once earth has a stable colony on Mars, humans can then look into colonizing other moons on different planets. Also colonizing Mars will be Earths test run.
No solo de nitrogeno se alimentan las plantas, donde esta el fosforo, el potasio, magnesio, etc???
@@hansengomez7985 xd,sin mencionar que hacer oxigeno alla es como encender un barril de petroleo
If you ask me we’ll inevitably colonize the Moon and Mars first since they’re closer, but it won’t be long before we colonize Titan and other moons of Jupiter and Saturn as well.
I think a giant ship orbiting in a goldilocks zone above venus makes the most sense. Put it just low enough to provide gravity and protect from radiation, run on solar and nuclear, grow plants inside for food and oxygen, close enough to earth for resupply, emergencies, and the ability to go back home if needed
You watch to many science fiction shows I suggest you turn off that brainwashing box in your front room for a couple years maybe you will wake up
(putting it low enough for gravity) would not work if the ship was orbiting. If the ship was not orbiting it would crash into Venus unless it had antigravity. If we have antigravity just use artificial gravity. Even without gravity control, just use big spinning drums.
@@vladimirsilver2633 orbiting could work
I suspect there's only one planet or moon in the solar system we'll ever be able to colonise and that's Earth. While technically we "might" be able to succeed with the technology we have now or develop in the future, the cost and obstacles are just too large. It's hard enough to live in Antarctica without being resupplied constantly and the obstacles on Mars and Titan are magnitudes higher. For a start Titan is -180 deg C. That's because it doesn't get enough energy from the Sun. And that's the major issue because super insulation would not work. You would always be losing heat to the atmosphere and you would need a large, constant energy supply to replenish that lost heat.
Not to mention that basic question of whether any human being would benefit in some way, personally, from being a "colonist".
We can and will but I feel sorry for the people who do.
Building over ice thats lime permafrost what about insulating with a thick layer of pycrete first then a wood or polymer like how they do with landfills and thst will hold your soil and channels for irrigation?
The microgravity could be mitigated by specialized clothing that is magnetic. Then, the flooring could be magnetized somehow so as to apply a gravity-like effect on the special suit or clothing. Obviously, such a system would have to be tuned properly so that the maximum "pull" area affects the shoulder and torso area, so the arms might feel a little "light-weight" perhaps. Obviously, I don't have all the intricate details for how such a system might work, but it would be an interesting concept to explore in my opinion.
As a trucker, I've counted at least a dozen geoplanetary factors in high Wyoming and remote Nevada having it all over Mars. Water not factor 1.
But no one's there! We're overlooking the gorilla.
Earth has this habit of killing off everything at the top of the food chain. Some people are perfectly happy to pass that extinction threat on to future generations.
The beginning points of Mars having deadly cosmic radiation is greatly exaggerated as recent studies show that aside from high altitudes like at the top of Olympus Mons, the radiation levels on the surface of Mars are not as bad as initially thought. They're within managable levels that won't be lethal to humans long term.
1)The two biggest problems with Titan are lack of solar rays and low gravity.
2)It's unlikely that either Moon, Mars, Venus, Mercury or Titan(or any other of gas giants' moons) would actually be colonized. What can happen is them becoming some sort of industry hubs for processing resourses mined on those planets. They are just too inhospitable to live there. I think we will have colonies in other star systems earlier
Have even the slightest idea of the logistics involved in even leaving the solar system - never mind reaching other star systems?
@@DrSpooglemon human technology develops exponentially.y estimate that in 600 years we'll have first working FTL prototype. As for the time before that, we may be able to launch few slower than light unmanned interstellar "terraforming" ships. The don't need to be super huge thanks to the upcoming newer engines with huge specific impulse
@@jimmcneal5292 Terraforming is at least possible within the current understanding of physics. FTL is a pipe dream that breaks causality.
@@DrSpooglemon FTL doesn't necessarily break causality, people who think so don't understand physics and relativity theory. FTL is theoretically possible, the only question is how to make it actually work
@@jimmcneal5292 OK. Assuming that FTL doesn't break causality, it requires technology that doesn't yet exist in any form and may, for all we know, be impossible, it requires "exotic matter" and at current estimates the energy of an entire star to fuel it and once you get beyond the orbit of Pluto and the Oort cloud you would be faced with the particle hurricane being pushed around the Sun's magnetosphere; while terraforming Titan is a matter of scaling up processes we already understand and using technologies built upon existing technologies using regular old matter and more pedestrian amounts of energy(filling the atmosphere with the right mixture of gases and removing all the hydrocarbons).
One requires things that only exist in the minds of theoretical physicists and the other is an engineering problem.
There's far too many objects floating around Titan to even consider sending humans there. That planet probably gets bombarded far more than we even know.
One massive problem that was overlooked in this. That could potentially make costs skyrocket...
There is no Titan Regolith. No access to stone or any material we can use for soil. To get at this you need to drill into granite hard water ice... hundreds of feet. So while you can make a stilt habitat to avoid human activity actively melting out bedrock... you will likely need to dig deep pylons to rock or bury it anyways. Building in outcroppings is possible but now you have massively narrowed building site choices.
The need to import regolith for use in both building and cultivation is a huge disadvantage.
You still need domes, water production, heating, etc... mars and the moon have the same restriction but at least they have regolith.
Titan would better be a production colony with orbitals that house people and surface outposts for worker comfort and access. Hell... you could have a surface of telepresence workers or full automation instead.
If we colonize any other body in the solar system, I have a feeling that no matter how well we terraform we will be the ones doing a lot of the adapting. Wouldn't it be strange for there to be human subspecies after there being only one extant for thousands of years?
I have noticed a lot of sub-humans here on earth, too
@@jeffreyerwin3665 if you meant the gender pronouns species, then yes there's a sh*t ton of them.
Clearly you have never been to ______ (fill in your favorite city).
We can use nuclear generators to melt ice and separate Hydrogen and Oxygen. Then we can combine the hydrogen with the abundant Nitrogen to make Ammonia (which can be used for fertilizer etc.). Next, we can either use the leftover oxygen to burn the ethane rivers for energy or release it into the atmosphere.
We know a million times more about Mars than Titan. Not only that but it's a lot closer to us. That means we don't have to spend half a decade on a space rocket, which would take a tremendous physical toll on the astronauts before even getting there to start work. We also have no idea how to survive on Titan. Although we have indicators and calculated guesses, we don't know for certain if there's even water present.
We also don't have any habitats or equipment developed for Titan but we do for Mars. Since Mars' atmosphere is only 1% of that of Earth's it's a lot closer to empty space which we have developed habitats for. Assuming we can find drinkable water on Mars and find a way to protect ourselves from radiation, Mars is currently the better candidate. It's also easier to land supply ships on Mars since the atmosphere isn't 45% thicker than on Earth (like it is on Titan).
After Mars we can concentrate on Titan and perhaps expand there as well some time in the future. We do need a lot more probes on Titan's surface before we can do anything else. Sending autonomous robots would probably be the best next step after that.
Bonus rant: and let's not even mention Venus. Anyone suggesting a colony there is just being silly. If we thought Mars was bad, wait until we have to land a spacecraft through a thick atmosphere filled with acid clouds and then try to survive on the surface.
Thank you for your insight!
The Moon and Mars are excellent choices, as stepping stones. Our technological prowess and advancements will be enhanced before we attempt to colonize Titan. Titan would then be destination #1, and an exciting place to expand our technological knowledge. Very exciting!
We are almost at the point to where we can build orbital magnetosphere devices to place at Mars or lunar L1 points.
Titan could make for excellent outpost colonies, but not really much more.
@@Flipnotic64 bro methane is energy you get oxygen and you have basically unlimited energy to build all sorts of infrastructure and will be the jumpstart to begin the dyson sphere
Too cold, too far.
One leak in the colony and you're Methane Ice cube
Titan is the backup planet for life when the Sun turns into a red giant.
@@Flipnotic64 Cannot be picky if the Sun has grown big. :)
Titan is FAR TOO SMALL.
Satan aka Saturn was once the Sun, before being cast down to Earth as the morning star, Lucifer
It seems that the more technologically advanced we become, the dumber we get. Columbus didn't use a giant ship to cross the Atlantic. He used a fleet of regular ships. If we wait until we have Star Trek style star ships we're never going to get there, but a dozen or so Space X Star Ships on an initial run, followed by launching a ship every month or so, until you can get a standard periodic rotation of ships coming and going could get it done in our lifetimes.
Even better, the first inhabitants got there long before columbus using a bunch of dug out trees most likely xD
@@CitizenMio As I like to say: "Columbus wasn't the first person to discover America he was the last person to discover it.
The most amazing thing about living on Titan would be the view of the most amazing looking planet “Saturn” morning , noon and night
Free falling from a skyscraper at 12 miles an hour. You could literally jump off of mountains and soar safely down to the bottom. A winged suit could keep you airborne for miles. How's that for a good time.
Great. Enjoy the experience. Take lots of pics. Leave.
@@saumyacow4435 Who pissed into your cheerios? Cold in mama's basement? Tell her to tun on the heat. Don't take it out on me.
@@wendellbatts2477 Hey you're welcome to fantasise :)
at least until you freeze.
I'm for floating cloud citys in the atmosphere of Venus. Much closer, perfect pressure and temperature, a bunch of useful chemicals all around you.
including the chemicals trying to kill you - sulfuric acid rain, violent winds (even ballon probes fail due to the turbulence that destroyed them).
@@jessepollard7132 In the higher layers of the atmosphere the winds are not that strong and protecting yourself from acidic clounds is really the smallest problem.
if acidic clouds are the least of your problems...@@Micha-qv5uf
The view from titan would be one of my favorite features. Creating an oxygen rich atmosphere would take a long time but would be well worth the effort. Also the lower gravity would create taller plants, animals, and people.
Always funny when regular Joe tell us what we should do