There is an informal meet up climbing instructor in the Las Vegas area who insists on putting a magic x like twist in a loop of a quad. I told him there is no need for that but there is the right way and the wrong way and that guys way. It is kind of curious how a lot of climbers can be really inflexible about doing something their way because they are sure it is the safest way which may or may not be the case.
Great video with a simple and concise explanation. I can admit that my first anchor was similar to the one you demonstrated with two loops hanging down, and I clipped the one as I didn't understand why I saw different clipping in other videos (quad anchors). Of course since then I have learned about the reasoning for not clipping all strands in the quad vs a simple 2 loop anchor, but it's a very important point to understand for newer climbers. Just because we do something in one situation, does not mean that it transfers over to others. Understanding our systems and practice (to hone the skill physically and make it muscle memory) is a key tool to our safety in the vertical.
Would like to know the data on how many full or partial anchor failures are as a result of parts of the anchor being actually "cut". My guess would be almost zero. As opposed to gear placement/rock quality/old/poorly installed bolts, which is probably a much greater factor. Not denying it's definitely a good practice to clip all strands on a typical pre-equalized anchor, just don't know if that "redundancy" is the redundancy worth caring that much about. (this is a question, not a critique).
While you're at master points, something I think is less well known and covered is how to correctly clip the shelf to retain redundancy should one of the pieces/bolts fail. I've seen multiple instances of people clipping around one of the legs of the anchor instead of through each of the legs, for personal anchoring no less.
Very good video. If you think about it carefully, you can figure out how to clip each type of anchor. The problem of course, is that our brains don’t work that way, and we don’t (usually) take the time to think it through thoroughly, so it’s easy to make a mistake. I certainly had to do a double take the first time I saw a quad anchor, and saw they only clipped some of the strands. (My frame of reference was a sliding X or fixed knot anchor).
Ryan, there’s are some additional nuance I’d love to see you cover. Something must remain clipped into the masterpoint until you’re off the anchor. If you PA into the shelf an belay off the masterpoint there is a risk of messing this up. Now, if you have 4 strands in the masterpoint, maybe there is a reason to only clip two - you could use two to belay and two to PA, but is this a good practice? If you leave two clipped when you remove the belay device, I agree that it’s extremely unlikely the other two will back out, and even if they do, I think you still have a safe, redundant anchor. I’m uneasy about it, but my reasoning suggests its ok?
My interpretation of clipping two is that they’re leaving the other 2 free for their partner to clip the other two/a belay device. Not sure why one would clip three though.
Why not clip 3 of the 4 strands? After all, if you have them, might as well use them (unless your material is so thick it’s hard to clip). I’d say, the opposite: the only reason to clip just 2 is if (like you say) if you are clipping multiple things/people to the anchor.
Two ppl can clip two different pairs of strands so that on the belay ledge there is a little room to wiggle without jostling each other
There is an informal meet up climbing instructor in the Las Vegas area who insists on putting a magic x like twist in a loop of a quad. I told him there is no need for that but there is the right way and the wrong way and that guys way. It is kind of curious how a lot of climbers can be really inflexible about doing something their way because they are sure it is the safest way which may or may not be the case.
Great video with a simple and concise explanation. I can admit that my first anchor was similar to the one you demonstrated with two loops hanging down, and I clipped the one as I didn't understand why I saw different clipping in other videos (quad anchors). Of course since then I have learned about the reasoning for not clipping all strands in the quad vs a simple 2 loop anchor, but it's a very important point to understand for newer climbers. Just because we do something in one situation, does not mean that it transfers over to others. Understanding our systems and practice (to hone the skill physically and make it muscle memory) is a key tool to our safety in the vertical.
Great quick video!
Would like to know the data on how many full or partial anchor failures are as a result of parts of the anchor being actually "cut". My guess would be almost zero. As opposed to gear placement/rock quality/old/poorly installed bolts, which is probably a much greater factor. Not denying it's definitely a good practice to clip all strands on a typical pre-equalized anchor, just don't know if that "redundancy" is the redundancy worth caring that much about. (this is a question, not a critique).
For quads on TR, I like to clip biner A on strand 1+2, and biner B on strand 3+4 hahaha
While you're at master points, something I think is less well known and covered is how to correctly clip the shelf to retain redundancy should one of the pieces/bolts fail. I've seen multiple instances of people clipping around one of the legs of the anchor instead of through each of the legs, for personal anchoring no less.
Very good video. If you think about it carefully, you can figure out how to clip each type of anchor.
The problem of course, is that our brains don’t work that way, and we don’t (usually) take the time to think it through thoroughly, so it’s easy to make a mistake.
I certainly had to do a double take the first time I saw a quad anchor, and saw they only clipped some of the strands. (My frame of reference was a sliding X or fixed knot anchor).
Ryan, there’s are some additional nuance I’d love to see you cover. Something must remain clipped into the masterpoint until you’re off the anchor. If you PA into the shelf an belay off the masterpoint there is a risk of messing this up. Now, if you have 4 strands in the masterpoint, maybe there is a reason to only clip two - you could use two to belay and two to PA, but is this a good practice? If you leave two clipped when you remove the belay device, I agree that it’s extremely unlikely the other two will back out, and even if they do, I think you still have a safe, redundant anchor. I’m uneasy about it, but my reasoning suggests its ok?
appreciate it!
For qauds on TR Could you clip each clip to two of there own strands
My interpretation of clipping two is that they’re leaving the other 2 free for their partner to clip the other two/a belay device. Not sure why one would clip three though.
I looked into this and I guess using a single carabiner would be when to clip the 3 strands?
Why not clip 3 of the 4 strands? After all, if you have them, might as well use them (unless your material is so thick it’s hard to clip). I’d say, the opposite: the only reason to clip just 2 is if (like you say) if you are clipping multiple things/people to the anchor.