It’s amazing how many legitimate and valuable questions there are in the comments, considering how many people rave how this is such a fantastic explanation. I guarantee the homeowner didn’t know what the heck he was talking about and didn’t care because he was getting all of this for free
Why so many are asking Questions because it a very poor video explaining and showing each and every step. He just sets main parts an shows a 3 second clip of hooking up then jumps to showing it all done. Very poor video on how too. Intact it's not a how too at all. It a totaly product sales pitch is all. I get all the hot water I need 24/7 out of my NYT oil fired BOILER with a direct hot water coil. Never run out an boiler only fires when tap is turned on if water boiler temp is below my set domestic hot water setting. It never fires when there no call for domestic hot water in summer. This guy just sold him a ton of stuff he didn't need instead of plumbing an wire the boiler coil proper. You can get the same hot water out of a bronze 60 plate heat exchanger added to a boiler with no domestic coil. In any case even this direct hot water tank an any other water to water exchanger pool or hot tub. They all need to be serviced. Witch is why when plumbed in each one must have Isolation valves and back flush conection valves for a set of washing machine hose. Turn off both Isolation velves hook up pump that socks a good descaler out of an flows back into the pail. All heat exchangers build up with calcium iron and just plain old Oxidization of the copper or brass witch stops heat transfer. I do all of mine once a year. It takes 20 min each if plumbed properly.
I just replaced my 62 year old boiler. The old boiler had a tankless hot water coil. However, I went with a new boiler and indirect hot water tank. I also have more hot water when needed, and it is less costly.
This Old House is now charging via their website if you want to watch the full episodes. Thumbs up if you think this is a horrible change and want the full episodes back here on UA-cam!
When you believe you are a plumber because you fixed a leaky tap then you watch this 😂😂😂 this is just to watch don’t attempt to do it yourself unless Richard is there 😁
Richard is my favorite, I love him, he's such a sweet guy, I wish all plumbers would be this nice, and not grumpy as all hell, like every other plumber is. . .
I dont mean to be offtopic but does someone know a trick to get back into an instagram account?? I stupidly lost the password. I appreciate any tricks you can offer me
The work and this video are so beautiful. I first watched this about a year ago when first researching what to do with my old boiler setup. My contractor finished yesterday on my new hydronic gas boiler and indirect tank. I wish they were able to do work nearly as good as Richard's.
yes they are much more efficient . especially if your boiler is modern one. or you have an alliterative heat source. like wood fired outdoor boiler or hot water solar. the only down side is they are at least 3 times the cost of a reg natural gas tank. we just bought a house and found out that the indirect tank is leaking and rusty on the bottom edge. i installed it my self and saved big ,but 1700 dollars just in the tank and parts. and had to be ordered on- line with truck freight.
There going to cool down fast. 2" of insulation is nothing at all. Now if it was wrapped in R24 boiler insulation (thick foil on outer side . It would hold hot water really hot for days. 2" is A JOKE. THAT all a eletric or oil or gas fired hot water tank has for insulation an we all know a 4 hour power outage there no hot water.
Just buy a eletric hot water tank an conect your boiler domestic hot water coil to the eletric tank. If burner fails turn eletric tank on an not only do you have hot water you have heat in the house.
Interesting solution, I would go a different way if budget allows. Remove boiler, retrofit existing radiators to hot water from steam, and use a Lochinvar combi boiler for heat and domestic. 1 appliance, 2 functions, endless hot water.
It is interesting how he connected it to the existing system. He reused the thermostat well on the heath exchanger for hot water out and return goes behind refill valve on the bottom of the boiler - clever. Just don't understand why is there still old piping connected to heath exchanger - he clearly could remove all the crap. Anyway, what about insulation?
Dude stfu bro, you got all these questions like you know something but you ain’t no plumber. Your a DIY-Danny and need to just shut your mouth and sit in the corner when professionals are talking. Ok? Ok:)
With the help of Ramon Priesol below, I reailzed that you "effectively" removed the steam-boiler/dometic-hot-water heat exchanger from the system. Instead you are drawing hot water directly from the steam boiler via the old thermostat location. I can see how this is more efficient, as you eliminate one heat exchanger from the system. Maybe you highlight this in the paid-for-full-video-on-TOH-website, I don't know. In any case, is this how the manufacturers recommend these indirects to be installed, or was this your enginuity? Btw, I am also curious if you don't expect galvanic corrosion due to the black/copper pipe connection for the strain filter.
Hi Ade from the Uk here , The technology you are using there went out of date over 30 years ago , no domestic houses have steam boilers, most of the UK have gas or oil condensing combi boilers or system boiler with a vented or unvented tank. I think it would have been more cost efficient in the long run to upgrade to a condensing oil boiler with cylinder, new radiatiors and pipework with new controls.
What about in the summer? Is the boiler going to be sending steam to the rooms when the hot water request is made? wouldn't it be more efficient to have a stand alone water heater? Or is that because it is an oil setup? My boiler is off all summer taking a break.
The heat transfer from the boiler to the hot water tank is probably great enough that the boiler will stay below boiling point and won't send steam upstairs. The tap hot water temperature is far below the boiling point, so if the boiler is actually able to reach boiling, there are probably some serious issues happening with the hot water tank.
I'm totally out of my field in this, but it seems more wasteful to fire up a 100,000BTU boiler instead of a 40,000BTU water tank in the summer. Although maybe the savings during the winter make up for it?
I don't know either because I'm also out of my field, but I've heard, and it sounds right, that this kind of system is more efficient with a smaller boiler. The smaller the boiler, the more efficient.
the boiler only runs along enough to make hot water. about 120 degrees. in winter it runs longer to bring water to 200 degrees for steam. and the thermostats are on then too. I used to have steam with a tank for HW. it failed. rusted out. I bought an electric water heater. then I changed the whole heating system to forced hot water 2011. still using electric for water. I installed that in 1997.
Ron White Some people just want to sell you the new stuff because They don’t want to fix the old because it’s not as profitable and homeowners that don’t know any better spend a lot of money
One thing I find interesting is that in all the shows in this series over the past 30 years is the total omission of strapping water heaters, furnaces, and stoves to the walls; and the lack of flex joints on the gas connections. In California those are all requirements due to earthquake hazards. Second items is the omission of drip pipes and any mention of them in gas piping.
Most likely because he is not working in California. I work in the area Richard works in more or less. In all my time in the trade I have never seen a strapped water heater or furnace and also never seen one fall over because it wasn't. Probably no flex joints because only homeowners and hacks use flexi's on water heaters or furnaces.
You do not live in California. Earthquakes cause water heaters to fall over unless they are strapped to the structure. A falling water heater causes the gas line to break and fill the house with gas, ready to explode. Flexible connections and strapping are required by the California building code. If you do not use a flexible pipe the building inspector will not approve the installation and the gas company will not turn the gas service on until the building inspector re-inspects and approves. That is not a hack.
I would have to see a side-by-side comparison of an in-direct hot water tank and an electric water heater. Of course, there are other variables like fuel and electricity costs and boiler/BTU output. Too many variables to find the perfect system.
@@albertpaganalmfao ya see how good they are at 25 30 40 50 below. They do not work. Thousands have been sucked into spending many thousands of $$ only to be freezing
See a tempering valve...does it work.?my experience they are trouble ....removed mine and solved the cold shower problem.....since then I had installed an indirect fired hot water tank...... 30 gallon can run hot water all day without running out.......
So how come all you commenters saying what a great explanation this was, aren’t answering the questions in the comments from all the people who obviously don’t think it’s such a great explanation since they have questions, most of which go unanswered. Obviously you didn’t understand parts of what he said either just like me and the homeowner who pretended like he did, but didn’t care because he was getting all this done for free. He noticed how the brand on the indirect water heater was rotated, exactly toward the camera. That’s because it was free from the manufacturer. It’s called product placement.
This tank should have a vacuum relief valve installed in the cold water line. To install properly the cold water line must rise above the tank. The vacuum relief would then be installed before it ran to the bottom of the tank.
I have had multiple answers to vacuum breakers but I have found out from asking one of my very good licensed plumbers and he told me that it depends on where you are and sometimes vacuum breakers are not required like where I am is because I am on a well it depends if you’re on city water then you may require a vacuum breaker unless you have a check valve installed on your city main!
It wouldnt be more efficient to just install a separate hot water heater. I understand using the boiler to heat the water if it was winter time and the boiler was running for heat. Is using the boiler to heat the water cheaper then running a hot water heater ?
Depends on the efficiency of the boiler vs the separate water heater you had in mind. I'm not sure what the efficiency of the boiler in the video is, but I believe most gas fired water tanks are about 80%? My boiler is 95% efficent and is a cold start, so it is much more efficient than any stand alone tank. Don't forget that indirect water tank is ALOT more insulated than any gas fired tank without a hollow flue running down the middle, so it will maintain temp better.
Question? Would the boiler still perform the same... as in always cutting on and off all night to maintain the temperature needed to heat the indirect water tank? Or would it only cut on when the water tank calls? Will the boiler respond to its own thermostat or the aquastat?
The boiler will not turn on nearly as often. The new tank is well insulated, so it loses heat more slowly. It’s also a much larger reservoir, so the boiler will kick on and heat all of it, and then not turn on again for a while. That water is also stored at a lower temperature than the boiler water, and the system can tolerate a larger range of water temperature inside the tank (starting rather high, and then gradually cooling over a long time) because the mixing valve at the outlet can accept any temperature of hot water and mix it to exactly the right faucet temperature. So the whole system is more efficient now.
@@SlickSliver Sorry… I’m not sure. I don’t think boilers have aquastats. ? They have thermometers that measure their temperature. I’m probably not the guy to ask. Haha. I was just explaining for the indirect tank stores heat.
I have the same setup as the beginning of the video. Is there a way to block off the small water heater inside the boiler and just have an electric or gas water heater?
Matthew Prosco … no need to block off anything. Just disconnect the pipes and plumb in the new water heater. Where the old pipes were connected is now an empty loop and shouldn't leak a drop once it dries out.
@@rupe53 i appreciate it! I actually did end up finding a kit online for my boiler that removes the coil and just has the hole for the aquastat. I'll probably do that just so it looks more professional.
@@matthewprosco5940 … as someone who worked in that trade for many years, I am going to suggest you leave the OEM coil in place. The reason being is after years of NOT being disturbed you run the risk of a bolt that's rusty, a stud that "just spins" in it's hole, or the gasket area being warped / covered in scale, which will present it's own set of issues. IOW, if it's not leaking then don't fool with it. Also resist the urge to cap off both pipe fittings with plugs.... unless the coil itself is already leaking. Reason being is that 5 ft of pipe will become it's own pressure vessel with no relief valve. That pressure could cause one of the plugs to shoot across the room like a bullet and also damage what's left of the coil assembly to a point where you have boiler water leaking. Just my professional opinion.
@@rupe53 i appreciate the insight. I did know about leaving the coil open if left in place. I was more worried about the coil rusting and causing a leak from not being used. That's why i was looking for the block off kit. But I'll definitely have to think about it. Im not doing anything until the weather gets warmer anyway. Dont want the heat off while i transfer to stand alone water heater.
@@matthewprosco5940 … the internal coil will not "rust" but if it's weak with corrosion it could leak boiler water. In that case it's no longer a sealed vessel so you can safely put in pipe plugs. That said, I have installed many indirect water heaters and a few stand alone units. With an indirect unit one can quickly tie into a boiler at the drain valve and relief valve tapping by pre-assembling fittings with a tee and new shut-off valves, then turn off the boiler and drop the water pressure to do "on the fly" installation where only a pint of water is lost. (if you move quickly) Now you can get the heat back on while you work on the domestic side of things. The trick to doing this is to turn down the aquastat limits so the burner doesn't fire and turn up the house t-stats to cool the boiler. You gain a few degrees upstairs and you don't burn your fingers while working. (boiler is now down to about 120 degrees) This will buy you an hour's work time without the house getting cold. You can wire everything and flip the switch off to make the last few connections at the end. Basically the heat stays on for 90% of the job.
The main improvement is due to the new tank being insulated. If the boiler was insulated, (and the potable water heat exchange not clogged) , you would achieve the same result, no ? Of course you could turn down the temp in the summer since space heating isn't required.
The boiler is actually insulated, but it also has way more exposed piping, lot more mass in the metal and it has some loses through the chimney. The indirect tank can have much better insulation.
If you cap a tankless coil when the boiler is cold and there is still water in the bottom of the coil what do you think will happen when it heats up and builds pressure when there is a call for steam. Word on the street is they will shoot off like a bullet but not until a child is in front of it. Never seen it happen but was taught you just cut them as short as you can and leave them.
He's got it hooked up with a tempering valve to try to maximize whatever is left of the coil to help warm the tank. Probably better than removing it altogether from an efficiency standpoint but not worth replacing.
In the summer months you could always add a timer to shut the entire system down after a set time if no one is home or everyone is long in bed. If you are really creative you could build a circuit that would keep the boiler hot if there was periodic call for the indirect tank to be heated or for space heating but would shut the burner off and let the boiler start cooling if there is no calls for heating after a given period of time.
QUESTION: For a hot water boiler, this seems straight forward, but for a steam boiler, how do you keep the hot vapor from rising into the rads in the summer?
If you add a tankless water heater, then you should no longer need a tank.. unless your tankless is undersized I suppose, but you would then have a very unconventional system.
Good question. Even a couple of inches of water in that basement would infiltrate the insulation on this model they used, and it would be ruined. The one I have as feet built into it that raise it about 10 inches off the floor. I got a more expensive model that new would cost $3800 and I bought it used with nothing wrong with it for $150 (at a nonprofit Reuse place where filthy rich people donate perfectly good stuff they remove, because they have more money than cents, but they still want to get a tax write off for it) and on mine the outer casing that protects the insulation is heavy duty plastic and molded into the plastic at the bottom are big feet that lift the tank up off the ground so that the pipes going into the tank from the bottom are vertical and at the very bottom and the pipes coming out at the top are vertical too. It also has a large bronze plates about 8 inches in diameter held on by about 10 hex bolts on the top at the bottom of the SS that have the threaded female pipe connectors cast into it, so not only can you remove the exchanger coil at the bottom, you can access the inside of the tank through the big hole at the top for inspection purposes to see if your coil’s all clogged without taking the coil out, or possibly even so you could clean the inside of the tank if you wanted to
Would have been nice to have that Y-strainer drainer come out 90* , instead of pointing straight at the close copper tubing. That way, the home owner could get a bucket under it.
hello, can i ask you an info , do you think will be more efficient the ssc-45 indirect fired or a electric water heater in series with the oil boiler ? i have to replace my indirect because is all corroted in the bottom , and i would like to understand if is better replace with the ssc45 or the electric , and maybe with a switch for the summer for dont use the oil burner. what you think ? thanks
Hi Rich . I installed my indirect same as this(not as good of course!) . Old one died. This is a different model. When I went in to wire aquastat on indirect with wires from the last one they don't tell you where or what . It's a red and white wire and your choice is top or bottom screw connection . They were in a plug that just plugged into the old Weil McLean and that didn't have any markers either. What do I do ??
You should always put a pan underneath your water heater. They're like five bucks and in case the thing ever leaks you have a pan with a hose attachment already underneath it
WHATS THE DIFFERENCE FROM CAST IRON TO STAINLESS STEEL HOT WATER CIRCULATING PUMPS.I got an old 50-year-old hydronic boiler. But I don't know what type of Taco H/w Circulating pump I got. And I need to replace it.What should I replace it with cast iron or stainless steel ?
Nathan it is a regular oo7 cast iron body if your circulating boiler water as in heating non-potable water if for some reason you're handling potable water can you use bronze lead-free or stainless steel
@@John_Lee_ Pilot=heat into the water I want to heat. Well, so far it's only 30 yrs. old. But in my last house, a similar WH was almost 48. Those life spans are long enough for me.
Hello Mr Richard nice joob how about exspansion vessel the plumbing is so deferent every where let see few of my plumbing videos check the playlists and see deferent materials Im yousing to my jobs i hope you l liked i like watch yours thanks.
Can anyone tell me how to switch over from heating to AC. Because of the Coronavirus, our property management company will not send a tech to switch it over. I've done a lot of service in my life time including being an Espresso Machine Specialist, so I can't really be that hard for me to do but I don't really know why it has to be done manually instead of just flipping a switch. If anyone could help I would greatly appreciate it. I'm guessing there is probably a valve that needs to be shut off.
Look into a Taco switch It prioritizes the heat zones. The boiler mate is just another heat zone calling for heat and you prioritize it with this switch.
The indirect coil is not potable water. The Y strainer exists to protect the circulator pump and indirect coil. The potable water goes through separate connections and is not tied into the boiler water.
The issue about brass instead of black pipe is about galvanic corrosion, not potable or non-potable water. When you mix two types of metal in a plumbing system. Doing this will cause electrons from the black pipe to transfer to the copper and brass plumbing pieces. Eventually the loss of electrons adds up (pardon the mathematical pun) leading to a hole in the material.
I have mentioned it in my comment. There is no old heath exchanger in the play. It is still connected, but he removed the thermostat well and reused it for hot water outlet that goes to coil in the tank and return goes through cold water refill inlet :)
@@rpriesol Wow, that does seem to be the case.. thanks for clarifying this. This would also seem to add efficiency to the overall system, as he eliminates one heat exchanger.. of course, another heat exchanger is introduced in the indirect tank, but he should have highlighted his methodology.
@@tribulation138 doesn't matter, the switch should shut off everything associated with the boiler. That way if someone doesn't know what they're doing they don't get hurt because they assumed the power was off
By using the old aquastat it used be for as a cut out at what ever temp you set. So lets say 160F and so on. So in one is used as a limit and the other one on the tank is the main. And also that's not a proper install the old coil in the boiler the lines should have been removed and not valve off ( good way for some thing bad to happen)...
Let me ask you a question what if you still have the old time boiler combo with the hot water intake would new boilers still work with it and how do the new boilers work compared to the boiler combo with the water intake
This is a great use of the boiler to heat domestic hot water when the house also needs heat. However, in the summer months, we don't want that boiler heating the house so that we can get domestic hot water. Why isn't there an explanation of this obvious conflict of use in the video? Did I miss something?
that aquastat on the tank is just a switch that makes on temp drop ... you can run line voltage through it or 24v to a switching relay that has a end switch to call on the burner
Does the Aqua-stat only send a lower limit signal to turn on the boiler and re-circulation pump? Or does it also send an upper limit shut of signal to the boiler & recirc pump? Does anyone know the specs or model # of the aqua-stat used here?
Install a Honeywell L4006 in a well of boiler set that to 160 to maintain that temperature, set a l4006 or l4080 in the well of the indirect water tank at 125 degrees. This way there all ways at least 160 degrees water in boiler !
Knight Hvac what kind of circulator would’ve you used? Just a regular old 007 or one of those bronze ones? Because maybe in the future I would like to install one of these tanks.
I just got a $3800 one for 150 bucks has marine grade stainless steel tank and holds 60 gallons. Bought it from a nonprofit Reuse company. People buying $20 million houses remove all sorts of expensive things that have nothing wrong with them and replace them and donate the old stuff for a tax write off to a nonprofit. I don’t recommend Habitat for Humanity Restore because they’re too greedy on their prices, and think that you should pay them a premium because of who they are. Look for nonprofits that are not Habitat for Humanity to purchase these things used for a few pennies on the dollar. The one I purchased sent unsold at the place I shop almost daily for months if not years before I even noticed it even though I was actually looking for stainless steel tanks to put on my RV conversion, I didn’t notice it because protecting the insulation is a capsule that’s made out of plastic, so I didn’t realize it underneath all of that was a marine grade stainless steel tank with a copper with tin platting coil inside.
echt wat een raketgeleerde daar,wow..lijkt wel teleshopping..it,s amazing mike! wow,haha is hier al achterhaald,techniek 20 jaar geleden,high tech?,hahaha...
Why americans dont isolate the CU pipes with fiberglass isolation to keep the heat inside the pipes to save power/gass or whatever heating with. Im talking from european perspective
so you installed a pressurised cylinder. which will heat up and expand... i didnt see any expansion vessel installed only a PRV.. so if the PRV fails you now have a bomb.. great work
You kidding me, the local oil companies love to install these Indirect’s for their customers with boilers… great summer revenue keeping those boilers cycling 24/7. Need a way to automatically turn off the money machines at night or at work all day.
You don't run into issues with flow rate. A tank less will reduce flow rate if the delta between city water and your desired temperature is large. That will bring water to a trickle to your faucets and shower. You don't run into this issue with an indirect tank. You also need a larger delivery pipe to a tankless/combi boiler with gas (3/4 inch?) which many homes don't have. Also, as said earlier, you cannot use oil with a tank less, while an indirect tank can use both oil or gas.
Daniel Nowitz I'm not a plumber but I thoroughly research any procedure done in my home and I watch my contractors like a hawk while they do work. This video here pretty much outlines the usual indirect hookup method: you run hot water out from the steam boiler (or water boiler in my case) to the indirect's heat exchanger, then connect a circulator pump on the return side which will send water that's cooled down back to the boiler. The circulator pump will be connected to a thermostat which sits in a well on the side of the indirect tank... Usually set to 125 degrees or so. I didn't mean to downplay tankless heaters before... They are the superior option from an efficiency and space saving perspective... But you have to be mindful of the amount of occupants in your house. Three taps on full blast will leave that third person a very icy shower. Hvac wise, thankless works just like a traditional hydronic system, for in-floor radiant, baseboard as well as hydronic coil (if you already have an air handler for your central air).
I just came across this. Why not just put in a tankless water heater and not use the boiler at all? I found the indirect water heaters to be about the same cost as a tankless on-demand unit. Yes, you would need to hook up gas and intake/exhaust to it, but wouldn't that be more efficient? Not sure on the efficiency. Of course there would be another gas fired appliance that could have issues.... I was wondering what others think.
Personally, I'm not a fine of the tankless except for situation where there is an extremely high demand for hot water.. not only becuase of increased cost but also because they require annual maintenance. And also, as you mention, its an additional appliance with no additional functionality (except for infinite hot water supply if needed), as opposed to the indirect tank.
I'm continually surprised about how far behind Europe the US is for things like this. This is described as if it's a new way of heating water, yet its been this way in Europe for 50 years! Combination boilers are a new thing in the US, they've been over her since the 1980s! Wax rings for connecting toilets to the waste system, seriously?!! Front loading washing machines are relatively new to the US, 30 years late! These videos have really surprised me!
Mounting a toilet to a floor-mounted toilet flange, with a wax or rubber ring, makes for easy installation and works fine most of the time, so why change it, I guess? I suppose the explanation for the late arrival of front-loading washers may come down to differences in the cost of real estate. Americans typically are able to buy bigger homes than Europeans, often with dedicated laundry rooms where space is not at a premium and there's plenty of room to access the top of a washer to load clothes. When you have less space and are forced to stack the washer and dryer, now you absolutely need them to both be front-loaders, but fewer Americans are in this situation, so there was a less urgent demand for that here. (And in the U.S., you virtually never see a clothes washer stuck under a kitchen or bathroom counter, which is common in many European homes.) Another reason might be differences in attitudes to energy consumption and the environment. European governments have been pushing more energy-efficient appliances like front-loading clothes washers for a while now. The U.S. government frankly hasn't given a toss, and hasn't incentivized their purchase very much. As for the primitive technology in boilers and radiators here in the States, again, this probably is due to there being less urgency/demand. What you have to understand is that most Americans don't use radiant heat at all. In Europe, it's most people, but it's less than 10% of Americans that even have boilers. The majority of Americans demand air conditioning, and that works best with forced-air furnaces, so that's what most of us use to heat our homes.
For $3000 dollars? you kidding me? you can install a electric water heater in series with that boiler adding a timer to turn it on and off for the water heater. You save a ton of money.
Not to mention fuel oil. That was a main point...not keeping the boiler at 160° year round just to keep the tankless coil hot. Probably will save him $600-800 every summer in fuel oil alone.
This is only feasible if you have a cold start boiler. Which doesn't keep the boiler on to maintain boiler temperature. Especially in the summer when no heat is needed. Also, the price of these tankless heaters are 1000. bucks, way overpriced, but I put one in so I have hot water during a blackout. An electric heater would use too much electric for my 4000-watt generator.
Why does everybody call this guy Richard like they’re friends with him? If you were friends with him, you’d be the one getting the free work on the show instead of his buddies
"Imagine a big lobstah pot" has got to be the most new england plumbing reference in history.
It’s amazing how many legitimate and valuable questions there are in the comments, considering how many people rave how this is such a fantastic explanation. I guarantee the homeowner didn’t know what the heck he was talking about and didn’t care because he was getting all of this for free
Why so many are asking Questions because it a very poor video explaining and showing each and every step. He just sets main parts an shows a 3 second clip of hooking up then jumps to showing it all done. Very poor video on how too. Intact it's not a how too at all. It a totaly product sales pitch is all. I get all the hot water I need 24/7 out of my NYT oil fired BOILER with a direct hot water coil. Never run out an boiler only fires when tap is turned on if water boiler temp is below my set domestic hot water setting. It never fires when there no call for domestic hot water in summer. This guy just sold him a ton of stuff he didn't need instead of plumbing an wire the boiler coil proper. You can get the same hot water out of a bronze 60 plate heat exchanger added to a boiler with no domestic coil. In any case even this direct hot water tank an any other water to water exchanger pool or hot tub. They all need to be serviced. Witch is why when plumbed in each one must have Isolation valves and back flush conection valves for a set of washing machine hose. Turn off both Isolation velves hook up pump that socks a good descaler out of an flows back into the pail. All heat exchangers build up with calcium iron and just plain old Oxidization of the copper or brass witch stops heat transfer. I do all of mine once a year. It takes 20 min each if plumbed properly.
4:30 Just draining the water improved the efficiency of the boiler. I have a hot water heater that is 23 years old. I drain it every 2 years.
I just replaced my 62 year old boiler. The old boiler had a tankless hot water coil. However, I went with a new boiler and indirect hot water tank. I also have more hot water when needed, and it is less costly.
Is the hot water endless?
This Old House is now charging via their website if you want to watch the full episodes.
Thumbs up if you think this is a horrible change and want the full episodes back here on UA-cam!
That's it. I'm calling Bob vila
Just an aside, but the music on ATOH is incredible. Just the background music in this video best heard without talking at the 5:15 mark is amazing.
When you believe you are a plumber because you fixed a leaky tap then you watch this 😂😂😂 this is just to watch don’t attempt to do it yourself unless Richard is there 😁
same here mate
Richard is my favorite, I love him, he's such a sweet guy, I wish all plumbers would be this nice, and not grumpy as all hell, like every other plumber is. . .
lol
Vytautas Poška I'm not people like me
Stereotyping
I dont mean to be offtopic but does someone know a trick to get back into an instagram account??
I stupidly lost the password. I appreciate any tricks you can offer me
@Kyler Walter Instablaster =)
So glad I found this. I finally understand how my system works!
You could've asked your plumber
I work in RI and I’ve only been in the trade for 2 years. I’ve already had to replace 13 tankless coils.
That’s some great inside info I’ve never heard TOH mention
@@Champstarrable I’ve got no idea what TOH means…
@@Keegeth This Old House
@@Champstarrable oh 😂 burnt… I think I’ve been hugging to much r22 refrigerant
I work in RI too! 401 gang 💪🤘🔥💥
The work and this video are so beautiful. I first watched this about a year ago when first researching what to do with my old boiler setup. My contractor finished yesterday on my new hydronic gas boiler and indirect tank. I wish they were able to do work nearly as good as Richard's.
Richard is a hack
I’d trust my plumbing to Rich, his family has been in the business for like 100 years.
There was no mention of an expansion tank for the cold water supply at water heater
yes they are much more efficient . especially if your boiler is modern one. or you have an alliterative heat source. like wood fired outdoor boiler or hot water solar. the only down side is they are at least 3 times the cost of a reg natural gas tank. we just bought a house and found out that the indirect tank is leaking and rusty on the bottom edge. i installed it my self and saved big ,but 1700 dollars just in the tank and parts. and had to be ordered on- line with truck freight.
There going to cool down fast. 2" of insulation is nothing at all. Now if it was wrapped in R24 boiler insulation (thick foil on outer side . It would hold hot water really hot for days. 2" is A JOKE. THAT all a eletric or oil or gas fired hot water tank has for insulation an we all know a 4 hour power outage there no hot water.
Just buy a eletric hot water tank an conect your boiler domestic hot water coil to the eletric tank. If burner fails turn eletric tank on an not only do you have hot water you have heat in the house.
the new camera man or video editing is amazing, keeping going in this direction
Interesting solution, I would go a different way if budget allows. Remove boiler, retrofit existing radiators to hot water from steam, and use a Lochinvar combi boiler for heat and domestic. 1 appliance, 2 functions, endless hot water.
Anybody else wish it would have ended with Richard in the bath with suds all around?
@Brian Francis you're*
Weirdo. Stay in the closet please.
It is interesting how he connected it to the existing system. He reused the thermostat well on the heath exchanger for hot water out and return goes behind refill valve on the bottom of the boiler - clever. Just don't understand why is there still old piping connected to heath exchanger - he clearly could remove all the crap. Anyway, what about insulation?
Dude stfu bro, you got all these questions like you know something but you ain’t no plumber. Your a DIY-Danny and need to just shut your mouth and sit in the corner when professionals are talking. Ok? Ok:)
Richard is such a great teacher
I wish I had all that knowledge
You need a higher capacity boiler and to pretreat the water for the boiler for scale and rust prevention.
Also where's the check valve on the cold , the temperature gauge on the mixed water also bypass on the mixing valve in case it fails.
our plumbing completely different in the Caribbean compared to American Plumbing wow ...im a plumber from trinidad and Tobago
With the help of Ramon Priesol below, I reailzed that you "effectively" removed the steam-boiler/dometic-hot-water heat exchanger from the system. Instead you are drawing hot water directly from the steam boiler via the old thermostat location. I can see how this is more efficient, as you eliminate one heat exchanger from the system. Maybe you highlight this in the paid-for-full-video-on-TOH-website, I don't know. In any case, is this how the manufacturers recommend these indirects to be installed, or was this your enginuity? Btw, I am also curious if you don't expect galvanic corrosion due to the black/copper pipe connection for the strain filter.
Hi Ade from the Uk here , The technology you are using there went out of date over 30 years ago , no domestic houses have steam boilers, most of the UK have gas or oil condensing combi boilers or system boiler with a vented or unvented tank. I think it would have been more cost efficient in the long run to upgrade to a condensing oil boiler with cylinder, new radiatiors and pipework with new controls.
ade johnston nope
Condensing oil boilers are a problem. Nobody wants to keep up with maintenance. Soot and moisture= big clog
You Limeys call storage tanks cylinders. You Limeys learnt a lot from us Americans. I'm a third generation steam boiler guru.
Great video, easy to follow his explanation through the process of how it works and how to install.
What about in the summer? Is the boiler going to be sending steam to the rooms when the hot water request is made? wouldn't it be more efficient to have a stand alone water heater? Or is that because it is an oil setup? My boiler is off all summer taking a break.
IzInBloOm exactly the boiler has to run in the summer, so they can have hot water. even the old set-up had to run the boiler in the summer.
The heat transfer from the boiler to the hot water tank is probably great enough that the boiler will stay below boiling point and won't send steam upstairs. The tap hot water temperature is far below the boiling point, so if the boiler is actually able to reach boiling, there are probably some serious issues happening with the hot water tank.
I'm totally out of my field in this, but it seems more wasteful to fire up a 100,000BTU boiler instead of a 40,000BTU water tank in the summer. Although maybe the savings during the winter make up for it?
I don't know either because I'm also out of my field, but I've heard, and it sounds right, that this kind of system is more efficient with a smaller boiler. The smaller the boiler, the more efficient.
the boiler only runs along enough to make hot water. about 120 degrees. in winter it runs longer to bring water to 200 degrees for steam. and the thermostats are on then too.
I used to have steam with a tank for HW. it failed. rusted out. I bought an electric water heater. then I changed the whole heating system to forced hot water 2011. still using electric for water. I installed that in 1997.
isinbloom your correct. I thought that boiler needs a cleaning and it's ph adjusted.
Ron White Some people just want to sell you the new stuff because They don’t want to fix the old because it’s not as profitable and homeowners that don’t know any better spend a lot of money
How do you prevent the boiler from making steam when heating the storage tank only?
Regards 'The Puzzler'
One thing I find interesting is that in all the shows in this series over the past 30 years is the total omission of strapping water heaters, furnaces, and stoves to the walls; and the lack of flex joints on the gas connections. In California those are all requirements due to earthquake hazards. Second items is the omission of drip pipes and any mention of them in gas piping.
Most likely because he is not working in California. I work in the area Richard works in more or less. In all my time in the trade I have never seen a strapped water heater or furnace and also never seen one fall over because it wasn't. Probably no flex joints because only homeowners and hacks use flexi's on water heaters or furnaces.
You do not live in California. Earthquakes cause water heaters to fall over unless they are strapped to the structure. A falling water heater causes the gas line to break and fill the house with gas, ready to explode. Flexible connections and strapping are required by the California building code. If you do not use a flexible pipe the building inspector will not approve the installation and the gas company will not turn the gas service on until the building inspector re-inspects and approves. That is not a hack.
so what did they use in California before flex piping was approved? Steel mains and copper tubing drops?
Steel or brass pipe only. Copper has problems with sulfer.
My sister had about the same system without the indirect water heater and she goes through oil like she owns the refinery.
Charles Damery, wow!! 🤦🏻♂️
I now know how my system works. Thanks TOH!
I would have to see a side-by-side comparison of an in-direct hot water tank and an electric water heater. Of course, there are other variables like fuel and electricity costs and boiler/BTU output. Too many variables to find the perfect system.
Yes, there is no 1 size fits all system. Different situations work for different scenarios.
heat pump.
@@albertpaganalmfao ya see how good they are at 25 30 40 50 below. They do not work. Thousands have been sucked into spending many thousands of $$ only to be freezing
My GRANDFATHER WAS A PLUMBER, AND A RAGING ALCOHOLIC. HE DIED A HORRIBLE AND SICK DEATH OF ALCOHOL. BUT THAT'S WHY I WATCH THIS 🛑✝️
See a tempering valve...does it work.?my experience they are trouble ....removed mine and solved the cold shower problem.....since then I had installed an indirect fired hot water tank...... 30 gallon can run hot water all day without running out.......
So how come all you commenters saying what a great explanation this was, aren’t answering the questions in the comments from all the people who obviously don’t think it’s such a great explanation since they have questions, most of which go unanswered. Obviously you didn’t understand parts of what he said either just like me and the homeowner who pretended like he did, but didn’t care because he was getting all this done for free. He noticed how the brand on the indirect water heater was rotated, exactly toward the camera. That’s because it was free from the manufacturer. It’s called product placement.
This tank should have a vacuum relief valve installed in the cold water line. To install properly the cold water line must rise above the tank. The vacuum relief would then be installed before it ran to the bottom of the tank.
I have had multiple answers to vacuum breakers but I have found out from asking one of my very good licensed plumbers and he told me that it depends on where you are and sometimes vacuum breakers are not required like where I am is because I am on a well it depends if you’re on city water then you may require a vacuum breaker unless you have a check valve installed on your city main!
It wouldnt be more efficient to just install a separate hot water heater. I understand using the boiler to heat the water if it was winter time and the boiler was running for heat. Is using the boiler to heat the water cheaper then running a hot water heater ?
Depends on the efficiency of the boiler vs the separate water heater you had in mind. I'm not sure what the efficiency of the boiler in the video is, but I believe most gas fired water tanks are about 80%? My boiler is 95% efficent and is a cold start, so it is much more efficient than any stand alone tank. Don't forget that indirect water tank is ALOT more insulated than any gas fired tank without a hollow flue running down the middle, so it will maintain temp better.
A great bucket as a seat too.
Nice video...anyone having any idea how much approx estimated expense to do that?
Question? Would the boiler still perform the same... as in always cutting on and off all night to maintain the temperature needed to heat the indirect water tank? Or would it only cut on when the water tank calls? Will the boiler respond to its own thermostat or the aquastat?
The boiler will not turn on nearly as often. The new tank is well insulated, so it loses heat more slowly. It’s also a much larger reservoir, so the boiler will kick on and heat all of it, and then not turn on again for a while. That water is also stored at a lower temperature than the boiler water, and the system can tolerate a larger range of water temperature inside the tank (starting rather high, and then gradually cooling over a long time) because the mixing valve at the outlet can accept any temperature of hot water and mix it to exactly the right faucet temperature. So the whole system is more efficient now.
@@j10001 so is the aquastat on the boiler useless at this point?
@@SlickSliver Sorry… I’m not sure. I don’t think boilers have aquastats. ? They have thermometers that measure their temperature. I’m probably not the guy to ask. Haha. I was just explaining for the indirect tank stores heat.
I have the same setup as the beginning of the video. Is there a way to block off the small water heater inside the boiler and just have an electric or gas water heater?
Matthew Prosco … no need to block off anything. Just disconnect the pipes and plumb in the new water heater. Where the old pipes were connected is now an empty loop and shouldn't leak a drop once it dries out.
@@rupe53 i appreciate it! I actually did end up finding a kit online for my boiler that removes the coil and just has the hole for the aquastat. I'll probably do that just so it looks more professional.
@@matthewprosco5940 … as someone who worked in that trade for many years, I am going to suggest you leave the OEM coil in place. The reason being is after years of NOT being disturbed you run the risk of a bolt that's rusty, a stud that "just spins" in it's hole, or the gasket area being warped / covered in scale, which will present it's own set of issues. IOW, if it's not leaking then don't fool with it. Also resist the urge to cap off both pipe fittings with plugs.... unless the coil itself is already leaking. Reason being is that 5 ft of pipe will become it's own pressure vessel with no relief valve. That pressure could cause one of the plugs to shoot across the room like a bullet and also damage what's left of the coil assembly to a point where you have boiler water leaking. Just my professional opinion.
@@rupe53 i appreciate the insight. I did know about leaving the coil open if left in place. I was more worried about the coil rusting and causing a leak from not being used. That's why i was looking for the block off kit. But I'll definitely have to think about it. Im not doing anything until the weather gets warmer anyway. Dont want the heat off while i transfer to stand alone water heater.
@@matthewprosco5940 … the internal coil will not "rust" but if it's weak with corrosion it could leak boiler water. In that case it's no longer a sealed vessel so you can safely put in pipe plugs. That said, I have installed many indirect water heaters and a few stand alone units. With an indirect unit one can quickly tie into a boiler at the drain valve and relief valve tapping by pre-assembling fittings with a tee and new shut-off valves, then turn off the boiler and drop the water pressure to do "on the fly" installation where only a pint of water is lost. (if you move quickly) Now you can get the heat back on while you work on the domestic side of things. The trick to doing this is to turn down the aquastat limits so the burner doesn't fire and turn up the house t-stats to cool the boiler. You gain a few degrees upstairs and you don't burn your fingers while working. (boiler is now down to about 120 degrees) This will buy you an hour's work time without the house getting cold. You can wire everything and flip the switch off to make the last few connections at the end. Basically the heat stays on for 90% of the job.
The main improvement is due to the new tank being insulated. If the boiler was insulated, (and the potable water heat exchange not clogged) , you would achieve the same result, no ? Of course you could turn down the temp in the summer since space heating isn't required.
The boiler is actually insulated, but it also has way more exposed piping, lot more mass in the metal and it has some loses through the chimney. The indirect tank can have much better insulation.
I wonder why he kept all the old pipes hooked up running to the indirect. Removing and capping would make the job look cleaner.
If you cap a tankless coil when the boiler is cold and there is still water in the bottom of the coil what do you think will happen when it heats up and builds pressure when there is a call for steam. Word on the street is they will shoot off like a bullet but not until a child is in front of it. Never seen it happen but was taught you just cut them as short as you can and leave them.
He's got it hooked up with a tempering valve to try to maximize whatever is left of the coil to help warm the tank. Probably better than removing it altogether from an efficiency standpoint but not worth replacing.
I don't think the tankless is less efficient than the indirect tank, the only difference is the hot water capacity.
In the summer months you could always add a timer to shut the entire system down after a set time if no one is home or everyone is long in bed. If you are really creative you could build a circuit that would keep the boiler hot if there was periodic call for the indirect tank to be heated or for space heating but would shut the burner off and let the boiler start cooling if there is no calls for heating after a given period of time.
QUESTION: For a hot water boiler, this seems straight forward, but for a steam boiler, how do you keep the hot vapor from rising into the rads in the summer?
I would think by closing the radiator steam valves. Unless there is a main shutoff near the boiler?
The aquastat on the boiler is only set to 160degrees. Not hot enough for steam.
🤔 I believe it’s going to boil eventually 212* = steam.
Maybe a separate system would have solved all the variables.
@@EOMFDdaudits I believe the aquastat was not for the boiler, but for the heat exchanger for the potable water
I have this system and am wondering if I can switch the boiler OUT as the heat source and use a small tankless water heater to heat the tank?
If you add a tankless water heater, then you should no longer need a tank.. unless your tankless is undersized I suppose, but you would then have a very unconventional system.
Why was the hot water tank left on the floor? why was it not up on a pad or blocks?
Good question. Even a couple of inches of water in that basement would infiltrate the insulation on this model they used, and it would be ruined. The one I have as feet built into it that raise it about 10 inches off the floor. I got a more expensive model that new would cost $3800 and I bought it used with nothing wrong with it for $150 (at a nonprofit Reuse place where filthy rich people donate perfectly good stuff they remove, because they have more money than cents, but they still want to get a tax write off for it) and on mine the outer casing that protects the insulation is heavy duty plastic and molded into the plastic at the bottom are big feet that lift the tank up off the ground so that the pipes going into the tank from the bottom are vertical and at the very bottom and the pipes coming out at the top are vertical too. It also has a large bronze plates about 8 inches in diameter held on by about 10 hex bolts on the top at the bottom of the SS that have the threaded female pipe connectors cast into it, so not only can you remove the exchanger coil at the bottom, you can access the inside of the tank through the big hole at the top for inspection purposes to see if your coil’s all clogged without taking the coil out, or possibly even so you could clean the inside of the tank if you wanted to
Would have been nice to have that Y-strainer drainer come out 90* , instead of pointing straight at the close copper tubing. That way, the home owner could get a bucket under it.
hello, can i ask you an info , do you think will be more efficient the ssc-45 indirect fired or a electric water heater in series with the oil boiler ? i have to replace my indirect because is all corroted in the bottom , and i would like to understand if is better replace with the ssc45 or the electric , and maybe with a switch for the summer for dont use the oil burner. what you think ? thanks
I need this guy to come do work for me lol
So many pipes now, it looks like a school boiler room.
Is it better to have the circulation pump feed the tank or feed back to the burner?
On my indirect system, it feeds the tank.
The normal placement for a circulator is on the return to the boiler, but it'll work on either side
How do i do annual flush maintainance on this?
1/2 “ piping on the water heater? Maybe they only have one bathroom?
I think he should have cleaned the tankless coil and left.
I was wondering when i going to see you all installing a pool
Hi Rich . I installed my indirect same as this(not as good of course!) . Old one died. This is a different model. When I went in to wire aquastat on indirect with wires from the last one they don't tell you where or what . It's a red and white wire and your choice is top or bottom screw connection . They were in a plug that just plugged into the old Weil McLean and that didn't have any markers either. What do I do ??
Hire a professional.
But where do you adjust the tempature?
You should always put a pan underneath your water heater. They're like five bucks and in case the thing ever leaks you have a pan with a hose attachment already underneath it
WHATS THE DIFFERENCE FROM CAST IRON TO STAINLESS STEEL HOT WATER CIRCULATING PUMPS.I got an old 50-year-old hydronic boiler. But I don't know what type of Taco H/w Circulating pump I got. And I need to replace it.What should I replace it with cast iron or stainless steel ?
Nathan it is a regular oo7 cast iron body if your circulating boiler water as in heating non-potable water if for some reason you're handling potable water can you use bronze lead-free or stainless steel
@@larrycurrier290 Thanks for the info.
Glad I have a plain old gas water heater with standing pilot. Very simple and reliable.
And wasteful and low life span
@@John_Lee_ Pilot=heat into the water I want to heat. Well, so far it's only 30 yrs. old. But in my last house, a similar WH was almost 48. Those life spans are long enough for me.
Hello Mr Richard nice joob how about exspansion vessel the plumbing is so deferent every where let see few of my plumbing videos check the playlists and see deferent materials Im yousing to my jobs i hope you l liked i like watch yours thanks.
show the wiring connections for the aquastat, ornthe entire job reults in no hot water or fried controller...
Can anyone tell me how to switch over from heating to AC. Because of the Coronavirus, our property management company will not send a tech to switch it over. I've done a lot of service in my life time including being an Espresso Machine Specialist, so I can't really be that hard for me to do but I don't really know why it has to be done manually instead of just flipping a switch. If anyone could help I would greatly appreciate it. I'm guessing there is probably a valve that needs to be shut off.
Look into a
Taco switch It prioritizes the heat zones. The boiler mate is just another heat zone calling for heat and you prioritize it with this switch.
In wondering why you used a cast y strainer instead of a brass one when it's on potable water?
The indirect coil is not potable water. The Y strainer exists to protect the circulator pump and indirect coil. The potable water goes through separate connections and is not tied into the boiler water.
The issue about brass instead of black pipe is about galvanic corrosion, not potable or non-potable water.
When you mix two types of metal in a plumbing system.
Doing this will cause electrons from the black pipe to transfer to the copper and brass plumbing pieces.
Eventually the loss of electrons adds up (pardon the mathematical pun) leading to a hole in the material.
I'm trying to understand the point of using the tankless coil and how if he's cutting into the main circulation loop. He has two tempering valves?
I have mentioned it in my comment. There is no old heath exchanger in the play. It is still connected, but he removed the thermostat well and reused it for hot water outlet that goes to coil in the tank and return goes through cold water refill inlet :)
@@rpriesol Wow, that does seem to be the case.. thanks for clarifying this. This would also seem to add efficiency to the overall system, as he eliminates one heat exchanger.. of course, another heat exchanger is introduced in the indirect tank, but he should have highlighted his methodology.
I love this man
Why was the zone control on and calling before the switch was turned on?
Probably someone just used hotwater
@@tribulation138 doesn't matter, the switch should shut off everything associated with the boiler. That way if someone doesn't know what they're doing they don't get hurt because they assumed the power was off
I PUT THIS HTP IN 5 YEARS AGO WORKS GREAT, HOP IT LASTS, Put in myself cos 1,100 bucks.
This homeowner was really engaged for a plumbing job this bug. Usually they are able to cut a pipe and that’s it
By using the old aquastat it used be for as a cut out at what ever temp you set. So lets say 160F and so on. So in one is used as a limit and the other one on the tank is the main. And also that's not a proper install the old coil in the boiler the lines should have been removed and not valve off ( good way for some thing bad to happen)...
I guarantee that was all faked, just while the camera was rolling
if those aren't double plated heat exchangers you need a backflow preventer on your cold water coming in …. steam water is acidic
kyle armstrong: "steam water is acidic"
-----
Water doesn't magically become acidic when it goes from being a liquid to being a gas.
Let me ask you a question what if you still have the old time boiler combo with the hot water intake would new boilers still work with it and how do the new boilers work compared to the boiler combo with the water intake
Yes
This is a great use of the boiler to heat domestic hot water when the house also needs heat. However, in the summer months, we don't want that boiler heating the house so that we can get domestic hot water. Why isn't there an explanation of this obvious conflict of use in the video? Did I miss something?
We been using these since time began in the uk. :P
I would love to understand how this thing is wired.
that aquastat on the tank is just a switch that makes on temp drop ... you can run line voltage through it or 24v to a switching relay that has a end switch to call on the burner
Hello boss I need to know if I can use motor oil on a oil boiler?
Does the Aqua-stat only send a lower limit signal to turn on the boiler and re-circulation pump? Or does it also send an upper limit shut of signal to the boiler & recirc pump? Does anyone know the specs or model # of the aqua-stat used here?
Answered my own question: Honeywell Aqua-stat L4080B-1352
William Maurer
Well tell us please
Install a Honeywell L4006 in a well of boiler set that to 160 to maintain that temperature, set a l4006 or l4080 in the well of the indirect water tank at 125 degrees. This way there all ways at least 160 degrees water in boiler !
@@knighthvac4876 what well?
That is really fascinating.
Good explain I like this is old House thank you for everybody
Only one thing I don't like , that taco 007e circulator does not like dirt /rusty water
Knight Hvac what kind of circulator would’ve you used? Just a regular old 007 or one of those bronze ones? Because maybe in the future I would like to install one of these tanks.
Did he take it from the existing scaled up heat exchanger in the boiler? That should have been descaled.
What would be the cost to replace a 40 gallon indirect hot water heater? I have an estimate which seems high.
They are generally very expensive
I just got a $3800 one for 150 bucks has marine grade stainless steel tank and holds 60 gallons. Bought it from a nonprofit Reuse company. People buying $20 million houses remove all sorts of expensive things that have nothing wrong with them and replace them and donate the old stuff for a tax write off to a nonprofit. I don’t recommend Habitat for Humanity Restore because they’re too greedy on their prices, and think that you should pay them a premium because of who they are. Look for nonprofits that are not Habitat for Humanity to purchase these things used for a few pennies on the dollar. The one I purchased sent unsold at the place I shop almost daily for months if not years before I even noticed it even though I was actually looking for stainless steel tanks to put on my RV conversion, I didn’t notice it because protecting the insulation is a capsule that’s made out of plastic, so I didn’t realize it underneath all of that was a marine grade stainless steel tank with a copper with tin platting coil inside.
@thisoldhouse do you have any info for a hot water loop in a steam boiler?
He just did one,the same principle applies.
The loop was the indirect water tank,thermostat replaces the aquastat
echt wat een raketgeleerde daar,wow..lijkt wel teleshopping..it,s amazing mike! wow,haha is hier al achterhaald,techniek 20 jaar geleden,high tech?,hahaha...
Why americans dont isolate the CU pipes with fiberglass isolation to keep the heat inside the pipes to save power/gass or whatever heating with. Im talking from european perspective
i wish u would explain the wiring
A scheme before and after would be really helpful.
cool vid just wish it was more detailed
That seems complicated and lots of opportunities for something to go wrong
so you installed a pressurised cylinder. which will heat up and expand... i didnt see any expansion vessel installed only a PRV.. so if the PRV fails you now have a bomb.. great work
Same as every water heater right?
You kidding me, the local oil companies love to install these Indirect’s for their customers with boilers… great summer revenue keeping those boilers cycling 24/7. Need a way to automatically turn off the money machines at night or at work all day.
What are the pros and cons of a super store over a tankless condensing boiler?
Fuel source for one thing. The homeowner in the video had oil fuel for heating, and a tankless cannot use oil.
You don't run into issues with flow rate. A tank less will reduce flow rate if the delta between city water and your desired temperature is large. That will bring water to a trickle to your faucets and shower. You don't run into this issue with an indirect tank. You also need a larger delivery pipe to a tankless/combi boiler with gas (3/4 inch?) which many homes don't have. Also, as said earlier, you cannot use oil with a tank less, while an indirect tank can use both oil or gas.
assuming you are a plumber here; would you, and how would you pipe, an indirect tank off a brand new cast iron steam boiler?
Daniel Nowitz I'm not a plumber but I thoroughly research any procedure done in my home and I watch my contractors like a hawk while they do work. This video here pretty much outlines the usual indirect hookup method: you run hot water out from the steam boiler (or water boiler in my case) to the indirect's heat exchanger, then connect a circulator pump on the return side which will send water that's cooled down back to the boiler. The circulator pump will be connected to a thermostat which sits in a well on the side of the indirect tank... Usually set to 125 degrees or so.
I didn't mean to downplay tankless heaters before... They are the superior option from an efficiency and space saving perspective... But you have to be mindful of the amount of occupants in your house. Three taps on full blast will leave that third person a very icy shower. Hvac wise, thankless works just like a traditional hydronic system, for in-floor radiant, baseboard as well as hydronic coil (if you already have an air handler for your central air).
I just came across this. Why not just put in a tankless water heater and not use the boiler at all? I found the indirect water heaters to be about the same cost as a tankless on-demand unit. Yes, you would need to hook up gas and intake/exhaust to it, but wouldn't that be more efficient? Not sure on the efficiency. Of course there would be another gas fired appliance that could have issues.... I was wondering what others think.
Personally, I'm not a fine of the tankless except for situation where there is an extremely high demand for hot water.. not only becuase of increased cost but also because they require annual maintenance. And also, as you mention, its an additional appliance with no additional functionality (except for infinite hot water supply if needed), as opposed to the indirect tank.
I'm continually surprised about how far behind Europe the US is for things like this. This is described as if it's a new way of heating water, yet its been this way in Europe for 50 years! Combination boilers are a new thing in the US, they've been over her since the 1980s! Wax rings for connecting toilets to the waste system, seriously?!! Front loading washing machines are relatively new to the US, 30 years late! These videos have really surprised me!
And the band played on....
Mounting a toilet to a floor-mounted toilet flange, with a wax or rubber ring, makes for easy installation and works fine most of the time, so why change it, I guess?
I suppose the explanation for the late arrival of front-loading washers may come down to differences in the cost of real estate. Americans typically are able to buy bigger homes than Europeans, often with dedicated laundry rooms where space is not at a premium and there's plenty of room to access the top of a washer to load clothes. When you have less space and are forced to stack the washer and dryer, now you absolutely need them to both be front-loaders, but fewer Americans are in this situation, so there was a less urgent demand for that here. (And in the U.S., you virtually never see a clothes washer stuck under a kitchen or bathroom counter, which is common in many European homes.) Another reason might be differences in attitudes to energy consumption and the environment. European governments have been pushing more energy-efficient appliances like front-loading clothes washers for a while now. The U.S. government frankly hasn't given a toss, and hasn't incentivized their purchase very much.
As for the primitive technology in boilers and radiators here in the States, again, this probably is due to there being less urgency/demand. What you have to understand is that most Americans don't use radiant heat at all. In Europe, it's most people, but it's less than 10% of Americans that even have boilers. The majority of Americans demand air conditioning, and that works best with forced-air furnaces, so that's what most of us use to heat our homes.
great job
For $3000 dollars? you kidding me? you can install a electric water heater in series with that boiler adding a timer to turn it on and off for the water heater. You save a ton of money.
Tung Tranle why get a Electric water heater when you can do what he just did and save money and electricity, yearly ?!
Not to mention fuel oil. That was a main point...not keeping the boiler at 160° year round just to keep the tankless coil hot. Probably will save him $600-800 every summer in fuel oil alone.
This is only feasible if you have a cold start boiler. Which doesn't keep the boiler on to maintain boiler temperature. Especially in the summer when no heat is needed. Also, the price of these tankless heaters are 1000. bucks, way overpriced, but I put one in so I have hot water during a blackout. An electric heater would use too much electric for my 4000-watt generator.
john spinosa Where do get your hot water regularly, when there is no blackout?
that's not a $3,000 job about half that if somebody's being reasonable a tank is about a grand and your doodads for hooking it up
Why does everybody call this guy Richard like they’re friends with him? If you were friends with him, you’d be the one getting the free work on the show instead of his buddies
This guys talented
How about a solar water heater?