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Jeff "Chirp, chirp, chirp" Kwaku "Chirp. chirp. chirp" James "But chirp, chirp, chirp" Kwaku "Unless, chirp, chirp, chirp" James "Chirp, Chirp, Chirp" Kwaku "CHIRP, CHIRP, CHIRP" Jeff "CHIRP, CHIRP, CHIRP!" I've learned so much listening to you guys.
@@benzun9600 all over its only tgat you choose not to listen. Start with genesis 1v27. How can one personality say let us create? Verse 2 same chapter tells you of the Holy Spirit also present at creation. John 1v1-3 expressly allude to the fact that Jesus is God and Creator
The guy with the beard always sounds and comes across angry. I've heard him in his confrontation with Mormons in the streets of Utah. I do not believe in Mormonism but I find his manner controlling ( beating down of others)and offensive.
@Eternally Righteous Jesus is referring to people being gods of this earth as rulers and judges among other people. Check the definition of gods (plural). You need to understand the context in what Jesus was saying.
Jesus uses this passage as a rebuke to the religious leaders. Psalm 82:6 rebuked the religious of Israel who acted like they were gods, when they were not God.
@Eternally Righteous I urge you to talk to dr james. He can answer your Hebrew and Greek issue. I would not have told you this if I was distorting anything. I believe too that jesus was affirming His deity but the pharisee were trying to kill Him for it. 😁 I understand your mormon so please talk to dr james white if your interested in seeking truth.
@Eternally Righteous I have not called you name and you have started to call name. I have been nice to you please do the same. Go and debate live with dr james if you think he is phony. He talks to Muslim many religious people and they all like him.
I am pretty new to this stuff. I thought there were no Gods before YHWH or after him. Like i said im new ive read parts of the old testiment KJV and recently finished the New testiment last week. But i thought our God said there were no other before or after him. If that is correct im assuming that means we cant be a god.
I was a mormon for 19 years. I began to feel this wasn't what God wanted for my life. I went outside at work and said a prayer asking, "the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to guide my life. Not the god of the Book Of Mormon. If you show me the way I will follow". A few days later I came across Jeff Durbin's videos, and he used scripture in a way that refuted everything I thought was right. He totally dismantled the false doctrines of mormonism. I feared leaving mormonism "in case it was true", but once I truly read the Bible, I no longer feared leaving. I've been free for 3 years! Now I know that God The Father is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. He is the only God, and there was nobody before Him. His power is unmatched, and He alone holds the universe in order. My faith is placed solely on Christ for salvation, because He is the only way to the Father. I can't do anything to save myself, and I'm totally fine with it! Now I try to follow the commandments not to be saved, but out of respect/fear of God, and to create a closeness with Him that wouldn't be possible otherwise. mormonism packs as much power in the Biblical sense as a box of Lucky Charms.
GLORY TO GOD IN THE HIGHEST. what an amazingly lovely story. Aren't you just BLESSED? Can't you just FEEL that when you stop and think over your story , and how The Lord stepped in and did a miraculous work in your life, and SAVED you!?!? Wow your story right there makes even Me feel alive! Glory to God, amen X100. I'm so happy for you. !! :)
@@numarkaz I think it’s so ironic that Protestants use the KJV of the Bible until there views are challenged, then they all become experts in Hebrew. Also, why did Martin Luther alter the Bible to push his viewpoint?
@@wretchedpoet29 it was especially hard to listen to toward the end when he was saying James wouldn't let him finish his point while Kwaku was constantly interrupting him.
Unable to provide opportunity to use scripture after being told you don’t understand scripture. A bit disingenuous to provide an opportunity to respond a certain way and then saying not allowing a full response in the way asked
"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit." 1st Corinthians 2:14, NIV
More like do you want to have the blessings I have my son. That sounds like a loving father to me. Rather than I will remain god and you will remain in your state forever, that sounds like what Satan wanted when the had the war in heaven Satan wanted to be above rather than equal. Like god wants us to be equal with him.
@@melissanieciecki8626 according to mr Smith. I don’t rely on mr Smith for any resemblance of truth. Sadly millions of lost people caught up in the cult / false religion of mormonism...are entangled deeply in it. Thankfully not me. :).
This is the pre-mortal Jesus Christ talking. Did he forget that he had a father? "God" is often used as a designation of authority. Certainly there was no other "authority", since his father had given all authority to him regarding the earth. Then Jesus gave up that authority to come to earth and be born as a helpless baby. Then he was crucified, resurrected, and exalted to that authority he once had, on the right hand of God.
@@zoomervince2457 Why is that important to believe? You can argue for it. You can argue against it. But why is it important to believe that there is just one God? Jesus prayed to "my God". Is his God not a god without Jesus? Or is his God a god regardless of Jesus? Is it important that "god" have just one definition? Or could there be gods of different types? Could the scriptures define "god" differently than modern Christians? Would that be all right? Or would it be the end of faith, if modern Christianity had adopted some false notions about God? What prophet first proposed that God is a trinity? It isn't a word ever used by Jesus or any apostle... so where did it come from? Why is it important to believe in a word that Jesus never used? Would it be a sin to call it the godhead, as it is written in the scriptures? Where does God demand that we call it a trinity?
Robert Rosskopf My friend, there is one God, and Jesus Christ is that God. John 10:30- I and My Father are One. This is two people of the trinity being told to us to be equal by Christ Himself. Jesus also tells us in John 4 that God is a Spirit, the Holy Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. Jesus Christ is The Way, The Truth, and The Life my friend. God bless you and Jesus Christ loves you so much my friend! Repent and believe in the Gospel of Christ’s death on the cross to pay the price for our sins, His burial, and His resurrection from the dead, defeating death, so we could receive eternal life!
For starters I believe in the Trinity, but I believe the fundamental issue in discussing the Trinity is all based on how we view God. As a Christian with you I'm as omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence. So saying he is the father the son and the Holy Spirit can Logically make sense. But the LDS view of God as a man or Deity that has limited abilities Then believing in the holy Trinity is extremely difficult. You need to first agree on God's "power" or the lack there of
Yeah that depends on what you mean by Jeff. It's technically not Jeff, it's Jeffrey, and a variant form of the name Geoffrey (itself from a middle french variant of Godfrey, Gottfried). It is most commonly spelled as Jeffrey though. Because the variant is spelt 'Godfrey', it actually means God Free, which means the ancestry understood us humans can be free Gods. Just as the book of Mormonism says. That proves the book of Mormonism to be true.
I've been an atheist for the first 30 years of my life. I finally realized the Truth last year and have since tried to immerse myself in as much as I can. The beauty in my position is I have no bias towards any doctrine, or any religion for that matter. So I feel I can take my path unhindered by any prejudice. I've been watching White's videos for a couple months now and it's clear to me in these "debates" that he possesses a knowledge that is magnitudes above his opponents. I'm noticing that he has such a profound understanding of not only his position, but almost any other doctrine's, that he is making arguments that are beyond the ability of his opponent to even recognize as such. His opponents are punching the air because they don't have the depth of knowledge to understand the argument that is proposed to them, so they attack whatever straw man they can muster, and unknowingly at that. It's not even a conscious straw man.
I was just recently reborn as well after realizing I really wasn’t a Christian the first30 years of my life. Now withe Grace of God I can now interpret and comprehend the truth in the Bible. I learn a lot from debates and apologists. No matter the denomination, I can tell who is speaking the Truth. It just so happens certain denominations seem to not speak the Truth
What caused you to stop using logic and become a Christian? There’s not enough historical information to confirm that Christianity is right about Jesus and that a God as described in the Bible exists? Like do you choose to ignore the lack of evidence and just believe? Because if that’s the case then that’s okay.
And 'the words in your Bible are very small,' when Jeff pointed out he didn't know where the reference verse was. This whole 'debate' is like someone wrestling with an eel.
Sounds like when Protestants claim Jesus’ declaration of Peter as “Rock, and on this Rock I will build my church. It’s just poetic” or when James very clearly made the point that you’re not justified by faith alone. And when Luther said this was an epistle of Straw. Interesting how the tides turn when Protestants are held to the fire 😂 Seems a little “choosey” to me.
@@masont2429 well then you should take seriously the obvious claims of the Roman Catholic Church. Peter was the 1st pope, clearly. And according to St. Augustine.
@Bon Jovi @28:53 -White asks Kwaku some pretty basic questions. -Kwaku directly admits that YHWH is the one who created all other gods. -Kwaku then tries to change the subject because he knows he can't go further without committing heresy in the eyes of his church. It's really not that hard. If the scriptures say YHWH created all things that came into being, and that He Himself never CAME into being, but always was, then that means He is the Ultimate. There are no other gods, in every sense of that word: there are only idols.
@Bon Jovi YHWH is the tetragrammaton. It is the abbreviated name of the LORD Yahweh that appears in the Old Testament. YHWH = LORD most of the time when you read in the old testament.
@Bon Jovi Yeah sorry I should have read the earlier comments. And yes, I do think Kwaku is trying to avoid heresy but 29:14 again, the question is once more repeated and Kwaku admits that YHWH created all other 'gods.' He still, however, retains his position despite the obvious admissions that YHWH is the one who created all things that were ever created. This whole 'debate' is really just White quoting scripture and Kwaku doing his best to avoid falling into heresy. I don't disagree with you that he's avoiding heresy to his church, but it's not that he doesn't know. He has answers ready from mormon doctrinal sources, especially when referring to the interpretations of text that supposedly show that ancient jews were polytheistic (seen several times before the 28 minute mark). He obviously knows his position, and what he is trying to defend. His position remains indefensible though when put to the standard against scriptures that say that God is the only god who ever has been or ever will be.
I just can't wrap my head around why people of color are members of a church that initially didn't like them and wouldn't let hold the priesthood until the one and only true church succumbed to political pressure. Why would you ever join knowing that this racism existed and only changed due to political correctnesd.
I was forced into mormonism at the age of 6yrs and in trying to please my parents, I wanted to understand and learn the teachings. As time passed and I could comprehend their doctrine, I had much trouble accepting anything else but the Bible. I couldn't speak out against mormonism because my wretched mother would have beat me severely. I once did the baptism for the dead and could not wrap my head around the fact that I was to live for somebody else. The Word of God clearly states that when it's over, it's over. No other will account for my Life. We will reap what we sow when we are Judged for our own choices. Nor could I understand why the baptismal font was placed upon 12 graven images of oxen. It seemed very wrong... innapropriate to perform a false ritual on a bunch of animal statues. I felt like I was breaking the 2nd Commandment. Thank God my parents divorced(I was 16yrs) and I was freed from captivity of the mormon corruption. 10 years of walking in confusion and sadness. What a waste... except for reading the Bible at seminary befor school started. I have always gravitated to God's Word and His Son Jesus the Redeemer of Man. Thank You Lord for carrying me all this way...
The twelve oxen represent the twelve tribes of Israel going out into the world, gathering scattered Israel from both sides of the veil. Why are oxen used? Much of it is symbolic. The oxen are related to the work being done. There is a reason for being under the baptismal font. They carry the work. An ox is a symbol of a good worker. Being a bull that is castrated and tame, you wouldn't have any trouble with the animal working the field. It is meek and obedient. I am sorry that you were forced into Mormonism and that your mother would beat you if you said a word against it. I pray that you may reach the point of forgiving her.
I have Family that are Mormon and they are Brain Washed it's so sad, the grandkids were taught this false doctoral Joseph Smith crap since Birth and they are Well Educated people but have 0 common sense!! They couldn't pour water out of a BOOT!!
Praise Jesus I’m a Christian father of a son that I allowed to be baptized in the LDS church I’m so thankful to Apologia Studios for sponsorship of this debate, and I’m the beneficiary of a stronger Christian faith I’m also thankful that my son’s eyes were opened to this false prophet I’ll continue to pray that Almighty God will forgive our ignorance as well as our sin s I’m recently baptized by immersion (probably 50 years or more late) and I’m praying that my son will be baptized again into the TRUE church I’m SUCH a late bloomer
You know that the Temple of Solomon also had a font on the backs of twelve oxen, right? When one is baptized, they become adopted into one of the twelve tribes of Israel. Baptism is a Jewish conversion rite.
Only three comments so far and two of them are negative. Wow! Let me the the first to say Praise God for open lines of communication. This is how Gods seed gets planted. Thank you J. White and J. Durbin. All Gods glory!!
Carl J Martin I was talking about comments on this feed. Yes I understand debate and yes I understand the arguments. What bothers me is people who are watching a Christian podcast throwing hate and shade to the people trying to bring the gospel and work through serious theological differences
moron, if you can't even get the first part right ... the second means nothing. satan did NOT say "eat the apple, you can become a god" satan said "eat of the "fruit" then you can be "like" god, "knowing good from evil." go read your bible, dummy.
@@grayman7208 The real Jesus Christ of the true Bible is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Not the carbon copy created by a false prophet scammer who is dead.
Dr. White & Jeff . . . I can’t believe I made it this far. God is truly in you. Absolutely excruciating! Your patience is beyond measure and ever time you answered the young man’s question, he diverts. And I mean every time. He’s a lovely, zealous, sincere young man but he’s not listening. I have a difficult time listening to irreverence to GOD, especially when one doesn’t know it. Much Love & Prayers to all of you.
@@jackfoot1257 I'm sure the Jews thought Jesus arrogant, but it was the confidence that comes with the spirit of God. It wasn't arrogance when Joseph Smith commanded that a women's arm be healed. He was speaking for God. That is what prophets do.
Nicene creedal Christians like James White also say God is incompressible. Unknowable. Without Feeling, Without Passion. It is just another difference between to true Church of Jesus Christ, and the rest of Christianity - as we believe it is the first principle to know God the Father and His son Jesus Christ. Of course the trinity is unknowable and incompressible because it breaks the dictionary, and math. It can't be described in logical terms - hence it is unknowable. I call the trinity an "it" but really it is a non-"it". Its nothing. Not made of material, which is also another impossibility, and where does this trinity exist? everywhere and nowhere. Again another impossibility. The whole trinity thing is almost 100% incorrect, which is hard to do on almost any subject. And the trinity is most definitely not biblical - its creedal.
Again, Dr. White seems to flex by using comparative jabs such as: 1. being around longer than his opponents, 2. his kids understanding the Trinity Just drives me crazy. He comes across as so cocky. Not humble or kind in any way. 1 Peter 3:15
Yes exactly, i was surprised at how many times he set up the same straw man to keep knocking it down. In the end i believe he perfectly understood the explanation from Dr White but refused to see it because by feigning ignorance he doesn't have to concede the point. He's young and still learning and hopefully will come to the actual Christ. But i think he should have shown a little more humility when talking with an actual scholar like White, especially when making statements like it's common knowledge Jews were polytheistic and the Trinity doesn't make mathematical sense after being repeatedly corrected. Still an interesting discussion ain't it funny how JW, LDS, Judaism and Islam all use the same arguments about the Holy Trinity.
I once fell into this camp, as I was involved in Mormonism for 20+ years before falling away, feeling that something just wasn't right, and later in life when I was dealing with a major illness, experiencing night terrors, powerful panic and anxiety attacks, fiery brain syndrome... I was miserable and found myself turning to the Lord, got a Bible (KJV), and for the first time in my life, started to read, study, and pray on the word of God. I prayed and asked the Lord of the Bible, to show me his ways, to guide me to know spiritual discernment. Soon after, I found a true Bible teaching / preaching church, with a great pastor that sticks to the Bible only, and holds true to it's teachings, doctrines, principles. My eyes were opened and I came to the full understanding that everything I was taught in Mormonism was false, and now today, when I look back at where I was, I can't even imagine how I started there in the first place. What I have seen is that the vast majority of Mormons that do leave, they fall into atheism and leave for other reasons that are not spiritual in nature, as in, they just give up and don't even feel like there is a true God, a true Christ (one in the same) and don't know how to digest or accept the Trinity let alone the God of the Bible, and not the God of Mormonism. As I listen to this young man speak, he seems to constantly stumble over his own thoughts, his own beliefs, and continuously sows confusion as he ping pongs back and forth on the terminology he is trying to use, the meaning of the words, and this is the same thing I have witnessed from the LDS leadership for as far back as I can remember with what I call "double talk". When we can go back and look at what prior Mormon prophets have declared, only to have it refuted by future ones, it concerns me greatly as the theme seems to have shifted from "trust in the prophets" to "trust in the current living prophet" and "pay no attention to those dead prophets, because they are not living, and we are, so listen to us".
@@Daniel-Marson K shouldve shown some Humility??? LOL Are you serious? The other 2 need to humble themselves. Theyre actually gettn angry and combative in attitude... Passive aggression MUCH!!!
He is not a lying man... but every report shows him looking like a man, with head, arms and feet... Paul said that we were children of God, and shouldn't expect God to be gold, or silver or stone. What should we expect? That God is a man like ourselves, albeit perfect and immortal.
@@robertrosskopf4641 How is God a man when in Philippians 2 it says: Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, *and was made in the likeness of men:* It says Jesus was in the form of God, BUT took on the form of MAN, so if God is a man, you are basically saying Jesus is a man who took on the form of a man, and that makes absolutely no sense... if Genesis says God made man in His image, and according to you mormons that somehow magically means God is a man, then why does phillippians 2 says Jesus was in the FORM of God BEFORE He became man, if God is a man? Jesus taking on FLESH means flesh is not the form of GOD, but something different (spirit), notice He WAS in the form of God, BUT NOW took on human flesh (man), THUS GOD IS NOT A MAN. Also you end up butchering Johns prologue and John 1:14, because after all according to you God is a man (flesh), so it makes no sense for the Word to become flesh (man) if He is already flesh (man). Repent of your heresy that God is a man. What a wicked cult, truly sons of satan and doctrines of demons. You must repent of this blasphemy.
@@first_last2740Language is imperfect. Words can convey too little or too much, being subject to imagination to some degree. We think we know what people mean when they say something, but we aren't always on the same page. Trinitarians look at the Bible and imagine that it teaches the Trinity. The members of the Church of Jesus Christ look at the Bible and imagine that it teaches the Godhead. Which is true and which is imagination? And who has the right and responsibility to define the terms? Ultimately, I think it is God's responsibility to define the terms. That can only happen through revelation. We have to go to him to understand what his prophets have written. Otherwise imagination comes into play, and a clever conman can preach a different gospel, and persuade people to believe in the philosophies of men. The definition of the word "Trinity" cannot be found in the bible, because the word "Trinity" cannot be found in the Bible. The word "Godhead" is in the bible, but it is never really defined. The Greek Theotes is translated as Godhead in the confusing verse Colossians 2:9. The subject is given in the previous verse; Paul is talking about the nature of God. His point is that we should 1) ignore what the philosophers are saying(v.8), and 2) that the fulness of godliness was in Jesus(v.9). What were the philosophers saying? The philosophers were teaching that God was immaterial, and that he was more akin to thought. God, as embodied in Jesus, was very material. These are not discrepancies that can be easily harmonized. All of Christianity eventually ignored Paul's council and went with the Greek philosopher's definition of god, the god without body, parts or passions. Then came along Joseph Smith, who saw God and Jesus in a vision, where God introduced Jesus as his "beloved son". Are these the gods of philosophy? The ones without body, parts or passions? Or are these the gods of the New Testament, the Father and the Son that Stephen also saw in vision? So, then, what is a man? According to the ancient song, men are a little lower than the gods (Psalm 8:5). "What is man that You are mindful of him, And the son of man that You visit him? For You have made him a little lower than the gods, and you have crowned him with glory and honor." The word "elohim" is usually translated in this verse as "angels", but the word is unmistakably "gods". In Genesis it is the "Elohim" who create the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1). What is this "glory and honor"? In Revelation 3:21, the faithful are promised that they will sit on the throne of God. It doesn't get more glorious or honored than that. To sit on the throne of God is to act as God. Philippians 2:6 tells us that Jesus was in the form of god. Jesus had a physical body. "Handle me and see, for a spirit has not flesh and bones as ye see me have." (Luke 24:39) So God has a physical body, as tangible as mans, just as Joseph Smith taught. Men were created in the image of God(Genesis 1:27). Our form or image is dictated by our DNA. So if you define a man as someone with the form or DNA of a man, then Jesus was certainly a man, and by extension, his father was a man.
Robert Rosskopf your pathetic excuse to reject what I wrote shows in your ignorance of the scriptures and you utter butchery of them. Notice how you refuted yourself, on the one hand you say that the word Elohim means “gods” and yes it does, however words only mean what their context determines them to mean, it’s not a lottery guessing game where we pick and choose whatever we decide they mean. The Bible is CRYSTAL CLEAR that GOD, THE GOD, YHWH GOD, the ONE AND ONLY, created heaven and earth and ALL that is in them. This action of CREATION is ascribed to the FATHER SON AND SPIRIT, notice how these 3 are ALWAYS throughout the entire Bible, not only 2 or 2, and not 4, but THREE over and over and over and over and over again. I don’t care what that son of Satan Joseph Smith said because he should have read that of even an angel comes preaching a different gospel let him be accursed, by the very words of scripture Joseph Smith is a son of Satan. My crystal clear example of Philippians 2 utterly refuted you, as everyone can see your pathetic attempt to answer fails miserably. Luke 24:39 is after the resurrection, not sure if you knew that.... and we Christians believe Jesus does indeed have a physical body, note how you refute yourself again, IF THE WORD BECAME FLESH THEN WHATS THE POINT OF BECOMING FLESH IF HE ALREADY HAS A PHYSICAL BODY HELLLOOOOOOOO???????
@@first_last2740 I understand where you are coming from. You have been taught by mainstream churches. You are unwilling to give up the fantasy that the salesman have sold you. No one wants to admit they are wrong. I get it. In the game of pride, one must never admit they are wrong. Otherwise one appears to be mortal, and subject to error. I would bet that I know the scriptures in far more depth than you do. I notice that you didn't refute even one of the long list of scriptures I quoted. To the average Christian, they are invisible. You don't even see them. Or you translate them to words that are meaningless, and thus diminish the gospel of Christ. Either way, your teachers are false teachers, and you have been led astray. You said "words only mean what their context determines them to mean". There is some truth to that. The same word can have multiple definitions, and one must select the correct definition based on the perceived context. That being said, one must ask why one word is used if a better word is available to communicate the idea. Why select "gods" if one means to say "angels"? Either the author is an idiot, or the reader is trying to change the subject. I believe it is the latter. Men are only a little lower than the gods. IF I just arbitrarily change words into completely different words, then how will anyone understand me? How can I have any hope of being understood? Jehovah (or Yahveh, if you prefer) is the creator, the Father of Heaven and Earth, and he was the premortal Jesus. He was the great spirit, before he was born to mortality, at which point he was no longer god. He was just a helpless baby. He needed milk just like any other baby. He did those things that babies do. He didn't answer prayers or run a universe. His Father took on a greater role, while he was living a mortal life. Actually, the Bible is not crystal clear when it comes to what "all things" represents. "All things" is vague. It is never spelled out. It is a generalization. When there is an elaboration, the opposite is communicated. "without him was not anything created that was created"(John 1:3). That implies that not everything was created, and that Jesus was not the only one involved in creation. So which is true? The generalization, or the specific? The way that language works, is that generalizations are only true generally, and are modified when greater detail is added. You get in the car, put the key in the ignition, turn the key, and put your foot on the gas pedal and the car goes. This is a generalization. Perhaps the battery is dead. Perhaps there is no fuel in the car. Perhaps someone stole the tires. Although generally true, it is just a generalization, and must be taken as such. Of course Jesus didn't have a physical body before he was born. He was a spirit. His father had a physical body. And when Jesus returned to reign with his father, he had a physical body too. He didn't die twice. Stephen saw them both, Father and Son, reigning together.
I respect the Mormon kid for his willingness to put himself in a position, knowing that he would be on the defense most of the time. However, it really irritated me when he kept trying to talk over them when they would bring up scripture to support their pov. Scripture was convenient for his argument until it wasn't, at which point he would refute it as poetic language or try to talk over them. Pretty interesting to carry a Bible around saying you believe what it says, only to argue against what it says whenever it doesn't line up with your religious pre-suppositions. For those who want to skip to when Jeff absolutely buries these false Mormon teachings ff to 2:03:00
listening from the beginning for a time but then it gets too incoherent to bear, someone saying "the bible clearly says, without demonstrating where what how etc and playing with semantics and saying blah blah blah it was the ancient context but actually modern interpretation of joseph smith, and just disagree and being dishonest... thanks for saving us the waste of time
I don't focus on Mormons, but I felt "sorry" for Kwaku here. He sometimes acted arrogantly, and as a result, constantly got "schooled" by James White on Christian central doctrines that he clearly misunderstood, and also when cornered, Kwaku got emotional near the end. Pray for him to accept the true Gospel.
Additionally: Evangelism is growing. There has been a rapid growth, thanks to the global Christian revival that's taking place worldwide. Especially in Eastern Europe, Russia, & the U.S. Unfortunately for Mormonism, is seemingly declining. ua-cam.com/video/UzmYvJesP1g/v-deo.html And; ua-cam.com/video/kIapBtv0yi4/v-deo.html
He couldn’t defend himself or Joseph smith so he had to act immature and show him self to be an ass. He clearly lost the debate he brought a stick to a tank fight. Logic and truth beat him. Hopefully he will walk away from being a Mormon to knowing the real and true Jesus
This is very good news for Christianity. I hope the trend continues. But as I read these posts, I am saddened by the antagonism in most of them. We should be respecting each other and working together more instead of attacking each other so much.
Love how open to engage this young man was. A very intelligent and graceful conversationist! I do personally believe Mormonism is in error, but love to see these kind of discussions taking place!
I once heard that no matter how many times you give evidence and logic to someone and they consistently deny...then it's not a mind problem it's a heart problem. They don't want to know the truth.
You don’t understand the bible and you deny what The bible says “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.” Galatians 1:8-9 ESV and “And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.” 2 Corinthians 11:14-15 ESV
After reflecting on this for a couple of hours, here are my thoughts on both sides: - Durbin & Dr. White could have done better in redirecting the conversation to stay on topic, as an example Kwaku mentioned Psalm 82 in relation to man being gods or like god (something along those lines as I recall) & they never circled back around to it. - This was the first video I have seen Kwaku in, and he gave me the impression that he is a rather arrogant young man at heart. I believe in granting the benefit of the doubt, but as the conversation went on he seemed to get only more brash & disrespectful. - I took issue with Kwakus intentional distractions, denials & deflections when salient questions were directed at him. This is the kind of stuff that is the bread and butter of modern Mormon apologists, and it stifles getting down to the heart of the matter. - Kwaku seemed to be VERY dishonest about what Mormons believe in some key areas, namely that Elhoim = The Father, and Jehovah = The Son. Yet he claimed they were interchangable, but that is not what is taught in the temple endowment ceremony, or gospel principles for that matter. Then 20 minutes later made the distinction & wasnt called out for his double speak by Durbin & White. [It's likely they didn't catch that at the time] - Pseudo Intellectualism was evident in this discussion, Kwaku repeatedly stated that he understood reformed theology & the doctrine of the Trinity, yet repeatedly and incorrectly tried to define & describe them ad nauseum. When Durbin & Dr. White tried to correct him, he got defensive and hostile because he didn't have a scripted response prepared and/or memorized to actually deal with what he was being told so it seems the only tactic he had left in his arsenal was to engage in distraction, deflection & denial. - Kwaku made a number of claims without quantifying them, furthermore he seemed completely ignorant to the reality that quoting apostates (aka - early church fathers) and/or pagan religions to somehow prove the historicity & by extension the legitimacy of his theological presuppositions via a Texas Sharpshooter fallacy, is fundamentally self refuting to his worldview. - Dr. White was absolutely correct to point out that Kwaku was not quite as well studied on what the various polytheistic pantheons believed as he considered himself to be. Whether the misrepresentations were deliberate or not is another issue, but Kwaku was grasping at straws to try and make connections that fundamentally were not there to begin with. - Durbin & Dr. White could have done better in providing more verses from scripture on particular doctrinal points. Kwaku claimed the Father had a body, and John 4:24, Luke 24:39 makes it clear that is not the case; they took a different route but maybe its just a difference in evangelistic / polemic methodology, idk for sure. - Kwaku was frustrating to listen to, particularly because he lacks the patience to listen long enough to understand what he was being told. It seemed as if he was listening ONLY to respond, and this greatly hampered the progression of the discussion over all. Things had to be repeated to him multiple times, and rephrased as well in patient & gracious attempts on the part of Durbin & Dr. White to try and help him intellectually apprehend what he was being told. - Kwaku most definitely displayed contempt and a lack of respect for his elders, Im not sure if that was the real Kwaku or if it was nerves or what, but it reflected rather poorly on him when the other two gentlemen were making it a point to try and let the other finish their points & responses, where he was quick to speak, and slow to listen. I have spoken with missionaries in the past who have displayed similar behaviors during their proselytizing, so I consider it par for the course. However, he would do well to really invest in some introspection on that point. Being domineering, or the loudest, or the most verbose does not serve to convince people. I hope he figures that out as he matures.
No, you saw the true, arrogant, disrespectful Kwaku. Jeff mentioned a debate he did 3-4 months ago against Aaron Shafovaloff. It's on UA-cam. He kept going on about, "This is fact, it's not an opinion, there's not even a debate about it" for most of his claims, even though his statements were either (1) debatable, or (2) clearly wrong. For instance, he wanted to argue that the Christian God was responsible for the Holocaust, and for Anne Frank being "murdered and burned". Anne wasn't "murdered and burned". She likely died of Typhus. Kwaku wanted to claim (as undeniable fact) that the term "monotheism" was coined by Philo of Alexandria "well after the New Testament period". The problem is that Philo lived from c. 20 BC - c A.D. 50. That is NOT "well after the New Testament period". He's ignorant and arrogant, and that's a very bad combination.
Thanks for all the details. I don't have time to listen to it all at the moment at least. I was just surprised and glad that he was willing to debate them and hope he comes back. It is a fine line to walk to speak the truth in love without offending them. They believe so many things that are remarkably offensive and/or defy reason. (and I am not easily offended but there's a limit.) Thanks to the others in this thread for their comments.
Craig Bullock - one (constructive) criticism I would make of Dr White on this occasion is that in talking at the same time as Kwaku he did what he has criticised others for doing, he failed to bring the audience along with him. I don’t know whether he was not feeling well or tired or just a bit fed up with an arrogant youngster, let’s face it you have to be pretty arrogant to go up against two older, mature men on your own!
Our math and God's math is not the same. Taking a five loaves of bread and some two fish and feed over 5000 people? Our math and God's math is not the same.
Colin Java God definitely brought you to this page ! YOU might think it’s because you were going to be amused, but God has better plans for you my friend, I hope you listen to more of this channels videos
You CANNOT teach someone who REFUSES to hear it. And he absolutely refuses to hear it.. ready to respond before they even finish. No matter what they said , he was not going to listen.
Not a mormon but feel bad for Kwaku. If he misunderstands something explain it. Stop reminding him every second how he misunderstands. Lack of clarification is your fault not his. He kept asking for clarity and not much was given.
James Maurer you’re an enabler for sinful behavior Kwaku displayed. He was disingenuous and tried to use false arguments throughout refusing to consider the truth or anything outside what he has been myopically programmed to believe. This guy came with a contentious sinful spirit and tried to even proselytize like some ungrateful arrogant snake. Don’t feel bad for a pretentious self edifying sinner like this kid, don’t be an enabler to those who are disrespectful to gracious people.
@@I_discovered_civilization nice, agreed, this kid will never learn if we coddle him, he needs to be knocked down a peg, saw him on Heart of the Matter (I love Shawn) and he was impossible to listen to
DekkyTheAwesome you’re an idiot because you stupidly say I’m dogmatic without evidence, strawman much? I addressed his behavior as an unwilling participant to their discussion, yet you come here with strawman tactics? Lol, dude you’re stupid af.
not really.. they explain multiple times but he refused to acknowledge their explanation.. he even said that normal people can't understand what they said.. even i understand "trinity" and "spirit" at 10 years old, years before i was saved.. am i not normal then?
That’s because these guys were more interested in defending ‘reformed theology’ aka John Calvin’s teachings rather than what the Bible actually says. Pathetic.
Kwaku returned to SLC still a Mormon. The debate was interesting, but did not convert Kwaku. He was 'outgunned' but his pride blinded him to the truth.
Kwaku’s testimony of a loving Heavenly Father that understands us was so powerful that I felt it in my heart that it was true. Good on him for bearing his testimony at the end of the show!
The Mormon was actually upsetting me during this debate because he kept stating that he would show evidence of what he believed from scripture but kept running all over the place and never actually presented anything.
EXACTLY. ive seen this before in mormon debates when a claim is brought up and then backed up by scripture by one debater then the other debater throws in their claims but can't show evidence for them, and when they are able to show evidence it's a personal interpretation instead of the plain scripture. God did not make the Bible hard for us to understand, why would the good Lord complicate something so important so that we could not understand it? We should have child like faith towards the Trinity and not twist scriptures for our own sinful finite minds to comprehend. if we need help with certain texts we should ask God for help and not lean on our own understanding, when you do try to do it on your own you'll have something similar to the mormon doctrine that at its worse is a misunderstanding and at its best blasphemy.
Matthew Burns? Wrong! He had lots of time but never used it to do so, more than once they tried to steer him back to him saying he could defend a point and he still went elsewhere
Let the truth be told He was a bit disrespectful but he did a pretty good job defending himself. He did not play by his opponents rules: as is Mormon custom 🛃
You obviously don’t know the history. The prophet Joseph Smith was an abolitionist and the very first presidential candidate to run on a platform of abolishing slavery and treating native Americans with respect. In fact, he was the first presidential candidate to be assasinated and a lot of that was due to racist “Christian” Missourian’s that were afraid the Saints would grow large enough to vote to abolish slavery in their state. The racism entered our church years later after many southern baptists were converted and brought their racism with them. Fortunately, we have removed that remnant from the southern baptists and other evangelicals that joined the early church and introduced the curse of Cain nonsense to the early saints. None of that came from the restored church setup by the prophet Joseph smith.
Does anyone else think they would get much further as a discussion if they offered their arguments and answers separately rather than spending a very large portion of time trying to talk over each other?
@@cizneerob as an outsider - with absolute zero investment in either side - this grown man is trying to convince an open-minded college kid that some strange, convoluted belief system is easy to understand for 10 year olds. No it’s not easy to understand. Which gives this kid every right to say “sounds different to me!” This dude is debating the science of unicorns. Good for this kid for not obsessing his time with this. Mormonism is just as insane as Protestantism. Just about every outside, secular scholar agrees the Jews had a polytheistic belief system which kind of morphed into a form of monotheism very very late in their history. This is a waste of human energy. Strikes me that these two older guys have to argue about this to continuously convince themselves that their convoluted belief system is written in the sky. Even though there are 40,000 protestant denominations. And why Catholic scholars laugh their asses off at these guys. And I’m not Catholic, but I would be if I believed there was a dude who walked around on a lake and rose from the grave after being buried dead for 3 days 😂
I actually think both men handled themselves really well, under the circumstances. It was inevitable that Kwaku would get frustrated towards the end when his points weren't landing.
i think his arrogance is really just a defense mechanism to cover his insecurity and lack of knowledge. the kid cannot catch an argument laid simply in front of him. he is kinda smooth brain
LOL they are all arrogant. Knowledge breeds arrogance. I would be 3 times as arrogant as them if I were half as smart as any of them (yes even Kwaku El is very smart)
@@howabout5177 he was determined to pray. Duh :) if he decides by his own free will to pray, that would be taking God's glory. What makes him smarter or better than others that didn't pray?
This kid speaks very well, and is very highly skilled in debate, and is very confident in himself. He constantly shifts from one idea to the next and from one scripture to another and never really lets the conversation get to the point where he has to say anything meaningful, and will shift and send them off onto another rabbit trail. The few times he IS cornered into making a real argument on something, it’s very weak. His whole goal is just to confuse the conversation, and bring confusion to the text.
Yeah he literally just talks in circles and because he's a pleasant person it's disarming to anyone who's expecting a heretic to be foaming at the mouth...kinda like the Hollywood idea the devil is running around with a pointy tail and a pitchfork as a lil red troublemaker, Satan and his ministers are not that conspicuous when they're really out to do harm.
This kid is more patient than “Dr.” White. And he probably can’t even legally drink. They both believe in lunacies. Good for this kid for having a more open mind.
Jeff: Quotes verse Kwaku: That's poetic Jeff: What verse was that? Kwaku: eh uh eh uh, how can I know every verse? Amazing. If it points to something he doesn't believe, he knows it's poetic before he even know what book of the Bible it's from.
@@thesacredseal I don’t remember what his point was now since this was 3 months ago, but no, simply remembering the book would not make him correct. Now if it was really a poetic, then he’d have a point. But when you don’t know where the verse is from, you don’t know if it’s poetic or not either.
Its easy these days to find yge verses quockly using your phone. Just typing in a few words of the verse and the letters kjv usually yield whatever verse it is that you remember but that you don't remember the chapter and verse for.
@@MansterBear Heres somthn thats not poetic but simple prophetic TRUTH... Im going to share somethn you need to see and understand. It will show you the Truth of the Book of Mormon right ther in the Bible you claim to believe... I hope you will see the folly of what you believe. If you dont then Its bcos you are in Darkness and there is no light in you. Ill pray for ya!
Consider this!!! You dont know it but every single sect on the planet does not have the complete truth and do not follow the True Christ. They all claim we LDS follow a false Christ and claim we are deceived.... Nope! They are the ones who are deceived... The apostle John prophesied in Revelations.... "and I saw an angel flying in the midst of heaven BRINGING the Everlasting Gospel to PREACH to the inhabitants of the earth before the Great and Terrible Day of the Coming of the Lord... So the question is.... Why would God find it necessary to send an angel to bring the Everlasting Gospel to the earth.... IF the Everlasting Gospel IS ALREADY HERE AND CONTAINED IN THE BIBLE? All of Christianity claims the Bible is all God ever intended for us to have. Ther is to be no further scripture from god but here we have god telling us he would send an angel to BRING the Everlasting Gospel! Hmmmmmmm!!! The validity of the Christian doctrines, among all sects, ALL live or die, Stand or Fall on this one prophecy by John!!! Many other scriptures but this one alone would be enuff evidence for the sincere seeker of Truth!!! It doesnt take the HG to tell anyone the answer to this question. So Id like to say to all LDS deserters and haters! Ya might wanna reconsider your choice!!! Just saying!!! Dont be deceived!!! This is His Gospel and Church... Joseph was a Prophet of God. The Book of Mormon IS the Everlasting Gospel prophesied would be delivered, by an angel, coming from the presence of God in the Last Days!!! The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints ... is the Church and Kingdom of God on earth Restored by HIM. The only Church with All His Authority and the complete Truth... God Bless... No one ever gives me a rebuttal to this Prophecy. The silence is deafening. Maybe you'll be the 1st??? LOL
I think you two did a fantastic job and seemed you had the upper hand for the majority of the argument, but I have to say your explanation at 57:00 explains neither of the two questions of “who was Christ praying to” and “why does the son not know when the second coming will arrive”
@@vi683a the Gospel isn't quantum mechanics, actually the truth gospel of Jesus Christ is simpel to onderstand. Spiritual things are onderstand by the holy ghost.
“Did the father or the son create Lucifer?” They both did, because they’re both God, and God created Lucifer. I used to not be able to stomach Dr. White and other reformed pastors either but I am humbly growing every day because I cannot deny how faithful they are to the Bible. It’s hard to refute when what they believe is right there in scripture. It is refreshing and comforting to learn from such men.
Dr White has said inaccurate details about the historical context of the Trinity. He claims the early disciples (the ones before the gospels were written) had a pretty good grasp on it bordering “common sense”, but that’s not the case. Ppl back then had a vague idea on it. Wasn’t until much later when the Trinity received its definition.
Lol "Christians" are the same way with the bible and we actually tell people to read book of mormon and see for themselves if it's true. Proud lds. The thing with the bible is that there are tons of different churches that all claim truth from bible. Yet have variety of doctrine.
@@bobbq8380 different church’s claiming the Bible doesn’t invalidate it. That’s like saying there are many different world views that people express mainly in English that contradict each other therefore English is a problem. No there are just different views and verse taken out of context
@@Mel-ye9ec Not trying to invalidate the bible at all. I am invalidating that every church that has the bible is God's one true church or has the "best" or most truth..... Yet any version of the bible clearly states one Lord, one faith, one baptism. So evidently we're all wrong or only one of us is right. What I honestly care about just as much as gaining more lds converts to my faith is ALL faiths working together as one. As much as freaking possible. If not, we are very ingenuine and our claims to being Christian are most certainly invalid no matter what faith we are. I swear Christianity has become the laughing stock of the world and it will very remain so or be so if we keep condemning each other for stupid differences over doctrine. Crap like that keeps making sure Christianity is the most divided thing in the whole world. I feel true Christians should be more focused on teamwork rather than poking at who is right or wrong. Even have the audacity to act like God and say such so and so going to hell or so and so are very "bad" people. Last I checked only God can judge. If anyone here is really Christian or about peace, go and pay it forward or go do good for random strangers. Such as a catholic that could use some handyman work, a Buddhist that needs help with travel, a Muslim that could use a hand with groceries, and an atheist / military vet that could use some reliable resources for better work. I've absolutely have had no doubt I've been blessed randomly by all of the above heaven sent my way by God.
Kwaku's immaturity just oozes all throughout this entire debate! He just keeps talking over these 2 guys. I'm literally about to pull my hair out just by listening to this immature young man. Kudos to Jeff and Dr. White!! You both exhibit godly maturity and wisdom! Being an ex Mormon who found Christianity, my Christian faith was strengthened watching this whole thing transpire.
Really great debate. Kwaku kept using the Bible out of context and making poor arguments. He was often defensive and didn't really refute anything that Dr. White and Jeff said.
His rebuts on trinitarian apologetics were pretty darn good, but yeah, his later defenses of mormonism were pretty weak. Overall he's was way more competent at debating then I would have given him credit for. Maybe a bit too confident, but you could say that about all of them.
Tort I found his rebuttals to be severely lacking. I couldn’t understand why he would use mathematics to tear down the trinity.. He was essentially attempting to apply mathematics to “limit” an infinite being that lives “outside our reality” where such laws do not exist.
@@Tayman47 god is not a man. The Bible says so clearly. Sacrifice is not what god wants for repentance of sin. In fact, sacrifice was only for unintentional sin. God said no one can die and take away the sins of another (then specifies almost as if to predict Jesus’ later myths) saying a father cannot die for the sins of the son nor the son die for the sins of the father. God also says he does not change. There’s a list too long of discrepancies but you get the point. We must turn back to God and away from men and idol worship.
@@qsfoodreview2840 Jesus won. It was Jesus. Which means both of them won. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Go make some money this year, and nobody will care what you believe in.
I feel like there is a level of hard heartedness and pride in this young fella that prevents him from listening. He also keeps running around instead of standing his ground and making his claim, backed by scripture and context
@Anti Anti Mormon You never need to protect truth from lies, but you need to protect lies from the truth. Truth destroys lies. So keep your lies protected from everyone because you know somewhere deep down or subconsciously that Mormon theology is built on quick sand and Joseph Smith was a liar and swindled people his whole life. Read a biography on him and his character shines through pretty clearly, he was a huckster.
It’s a very clear sign of insecurity in ones beliefs when a man can’t be quiet to allow another man to speak. Most false religions fall apart when you question there doctrines. Especially when the doctrine feeds the carnal desires of the flesh. i.e. becoming a God, inheriting many virgins in the after life etc... Apart from that, speaking to false religions exhibits a sense of immature, rude and aggressive behavior. Just mind blowing.
Christopher David Suryanarayan he’s so unprepared. It’s ridiculous. And he came there knowing what the discussion was about. I don’t know what he thought would happen.
Omer Jamil what? How? They were so patient. Kwaku just made statements and never did anything with them. He makes nailing jello to a walk easy in comparison with his wild wiggling
The Mormon thinks he can become like God....just like Satan did: Isaiah 14:12-14 How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! You said in your heart, I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High. Satan also tempted Eve that she could become like God by eating the forbidden fruit: Genesis 3:1-5 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, Did God actually say, You shall not eat of any tree in the garden? And the woman said to the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said, You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die. But the serpent said to the woman, You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil. Joseph Smith was a child of the devil, a false teacher espousing the same old lie of Satan, that the creature can become the creator.
It wasn't even a half truth... God stated that they would die in that day... they didn't... Satan said they would be like God... they did... where is the half truth? God was talking about spiritual death... sin... separation from God. Satan didn't understand this and only understands physical death... or he did and that was the half truth. But they did become like God... that is not deniable.
This kids theology reminds of someone that said "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." - Lucifer (Isaiah 14.14)
@Paula Wallace well there is no word fallen angles ,and lucifer most definitely was the king of Babylon but the concept of fallen angles is there. The elohim rebellion and the the nephiliam were born .God divides the nations according to the elohim in heaven who were fallen and deceived the nation s .the very principalities that Paul spoke of the spiritually rules nations .so Lucifer is the king of Babylon but can also be talking about the principality governing the nation. Habakkak says that those nations attribute there power to their gods, well i dont think he was just saying it
@Paula Wallace may man ok the god of wine is not before christ my bro but after lol. Also i said maybe it can hold symbolic worth too .i know that Lucifer was the king of Babylon. Totally agree but u say i know nothing but you dont even understand the divine console .now the nephiliam were a mixed breed of people so yea they were mighty men but not exclusively. There were different breeds coming froming different races .also just because you think Paul and jesus spoke against the law doesn't make dosent mean they are false teachers..i am a Hebrew by blood and a son of isreal by faith . Yeshua nor Paul spoke against the law but against the traditions of men ,you probably were deceived by the lack of discernment of their rhetoric which was design by the Most High to confuse and offend the religious mind ...Paul uphold the law and tought to keep the law and jesus showed how to keep the sabbath correctly. Read the Hebrew. The (sons of god ) are in Hebrew the (elohim ) these are the ones who are to be cast down on the last day .the one that in Daniel ,the prince of Persia stopped the angel from coming to daniel .this is a elohim, a principality that is in the heavenly places which is cast out of the presence and service of God and his good will .im assuming im talking to someone who atleast knows the old testament and believes in it . Im not a Christian but a disciple of christ and a keeper of the law just like the 1 century disciples did. Maybe u miss that with bad info and Christian digma ....the word fallen angel isn't there bur the concept is present. Christian dogma is wrong but the so called miseading name (new testament) is real
@Paula Wallace also Paul was from the tribe of Benjamin of the most strict sec of Judaism. At the very least paul is only a pharisee. You can't find a example in the bible that says he tought against moses which i cant throw down .James even himself confronted him about this. Telling him that people say you teach against the law but james said he knows its not true .paul himself say about 3 different times that he doesn't teach against the law ..have you read act like 16 and up?
@@charlessamuellasiste2752 God almighty through JESUS CHRIST by HOLY SPIRIT and ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH and Apostolic tradition and BIBLE in that order
You can see the grace in Jeff and James and that they speak truth with no ego. All you can see with Kwaku is pride, ego, and deceit. Let us pray for him brothers so he comes to the true faith
@@infinityApologeticsClips So you believe the Constantine version of God? Three in one, equal, eternal, separate yet the same? I am so ashamed that those bishops bowed and worshiped the murderous freak. I don't care how many jewels were on his purple cloak. Constantine made them all into cold blooded murderers, giving the death penalty to anyone who believed that Jesus was actually the son of God, and they all just went along with it. Spineless jellyfish.
@@infinityApologeticsClips Assuming, for a second, that there is some truth to that, what information does the statement actually convey? In what way are they 3 in 1?
I LOVE HOW KWAKU SAYS ...WE DONT KNOW HE WAS SPEAKING OF HORSES.....WHEN JOSEPH SMITH AND HIS BROTHER ARE ON HORSES ON STATUES, I BELIEVE JOSEPHS MYTH KNEW WHAT A HORSE WAS ...REPENT AND PLEASE LOOK AT MORMONISM FOR WHAT IT IS ... FALSE
J K yeah I re read that. José, my apologies for being ignorant. Really. I should have taken a second look. And I’m sorry for insulting and being hasty. I was wrong. I apologize .
Kwaku is bad about interrupting Jeff and James. He has a hard time allowing for a response without interrupting and throwing in his own input. Kwaku really needs to work in conversing with others rather than being rude by snickering while others talk and interrupting.
I’m an ex-Mormon. Everything Dr. White and Jeff were saying was spot on. Kwaku has made some recent videos attacking anyone ex-Mormon for questioning. There is even some police involvement because of some serious threats over Twitter towards a PHD who was kicked out of the Mormon church. As someone who was raised in it, served a year and a half service mission teaching this stuff in the Philippines, and as someone who google searched simple teachings... the Mormon church is completely cult like. The more I have studied cult methods, the more I’ve been awakened to what the Mormon church did/does to hide its dirty laundry. I’m so grateful to have found my way out. Thank you for hosting people of different faiths, especially Mormonism. Mormons act so sweet and kind until you disagree with their beliefs or prove them wrong. You are always to blame, never their beloved prophets and Book of Mormon/Joseph Smith.
*_until you disagree with their beliefs or prove them wrong. You are always to blame, never their beloved prophets and Book of Mormon/Joseph Smith._* you can't prove anything. And most don't care if you don't believe as we do. I know I don't. All I care about is that what you disagree with IS what we believe, not the anti-Mormon propaganda.
what evidence? Pastor Jeff couldn't even explain about spirit when he was asked by kwaku,. and this is what exactly what happened to young Joseph Smith talking to an old Pastor or Preacher... Why to a young boy would appear God not to someone like me who is older and have practice and studied the bible.... Exactly What Dr. White was telling him to listen to me i have more than 30 years in my shoulder studying the bible. He was very authoritative and wasnt humble to what kwaku was saying all he wanted is for the guy to believe and listen to him... Even pastor Jeff keeps on saying to let Dr. White to finish, but when Kwaku's turn to say something and try to defend he just let Dr. White to keep on cutting and not saying anything... I watched the show and i can say that kwaku was able to stand in his ground and made a huge statement about what he believed.. You can tell it wasn't a good place to be with even thought pastor Jeff keeps on saying that im doing this out of respect and Love, but the fact of the matter is they were boiling they just couldnt do it infront of the camera... Over all i thought it was a great debate.
Ha. That's cute - a religious person talking about evidence. Dude, if you really thought evidence was important, you probably wouldn't be religious at all.
he is not the word, the word is love and through love God created everything, and in the same text, we know that the love of God became flesh, the firstborn, who God had made so that it, that was impossible for men could be possible through him.
@@or0chimau when he says in the begining was the word? How do you think God created the universe? He spoke. Christ created the universe and he brought the very word of God. If the word of God is truth and jesus is truth incarnate then he is the word of God. You live in a single spoken sentence. Universe Uni: single Verse: Spoken sentence
@@collynsmith786 no, god created the universe, not Jesus, if you are to say that then there is no distintion between jesus and god, and you do not understand why Jesus and god differ, there is universe, becuase there is only one reality, that being god himself.
One of the most frustrating thing when witnessing or debating with other religions is insincerity in the dialogue. Not all but when I here religions such as Muslims, Mormons, JWs, Israelites etc... they don’t cone across sincere. More about using tactics and deception to prove there point. True Christians don’t use deception when they debate. They just speak the truth of the Gospel and are bold in the accuracy of the scriptures. How can they even have any ground to stand on when they replaced the holy scripture with another book and modified the original text. Born again Christian apologetics are the most sincere I have seen in a debate format. They don’t play games. They just stick to the Gospel. This young man is just saying things with no context, biblical meaning or truth just in a manner he thinks sounds smart in his own mind. Only the power of the Holy Spirit can separate dark from light. Confusion from Clarity..
Apbt 2010 yeah, it “could”. Is that you’re only contribution. You only came to make a comment in mockery? One side is sincere trying to win a souls from hell and one wants to speak from Ego and teach us how we can be a God. Heresy and blasphemy.
@@Christopher25S again you look through biased lenses. Your statement can also be construed as mockery but I guess when you speak you think you are the only person with valid points. When Jehovah our Lord and Saviour Jesus spoke; Psalms 82 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. John 10 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? You seem to be referring that Jesus is blaspheming. If you could remove your rosey coloured glasses for 1 sec you might see, who is really contributing and who the real blasphemer is.
Apbt 2010 read the Bible dude. It is very easy to disprove a Mormon. You shouldn’t use biblical context to fit your cults narrative when Mormonism itself is polytheistic while the Bible constantly talks about how there is only one God and that Jesus himself is God in human flesh... Mormonism contradicts the Bible in every single way so you have no right using biblical scriptures to prove your narrative.
@@darkplatinum2362 so Josh now you're saying Jesus is a liar when what He says doesn't fit your cults narrative. Jesus says "Ye are gods" but you and your cult conveniently want dismiss our Lord and Redeemer as a thing of naught. Your cults teachings are so easy to refute.
1:20:00 when Jeff goes in is when the wheels really start to fall off for Kwaku... Kwaku calls scripture "poetic" but doesn't know what scripture he's even referring to. Lots of pride and ego at play here for Kwaku, pray God will open his eyes.
So glad we have evangelical Christians around to Usurp the role of Christ in judging people's hearts. I'm sure He really appreciates that. Thank goodness us evil Mormons have you all to show us the true way.
@@chancebozeman5171 Christians are called to judge doctrine, teaching, and others actions righteously. (Matt 7, John 7:24, 1 Corin 2,5,6,14, 2 Corin 11, 1 John 2:18-20, etc.) Scripture is the authority, not any one person. Joseph Smith is a false prophet, that's been proven already. I pray you stop following the deception.
@@Tayman47 you were judging his heart by saying he was prideful and egotistical. That's not what Christ teaches. Also, you aren't judging righteously my friend. That's clear by you thinking you know what's in others' hearts. You don't. Christ didn't teach that scripture was the ultimate authority, He taught that He was the ultimate authority and He gave that authority to His apostles to act in his name. No protestant faith claims that authority, only The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and the Roman Catholics claim that authority. Also, the bible tells us to pray in private, doesn't it? Are you praying, so I'll see your good works and glorify you? Maybe you are the one who is deceived.
@@chancebozeman5171 1.) I was judging his words/actions/ignorance. Righteous judgment is based upon the revealed truth and Word of God which he distorts and lies about. Just like the false prophet JS did. Also, Christ directly teaches to judge matters of the heart, just look at him reprimanding the scribes and Pharisees for saying they follow the law but in their hearts they don’t. You’re wrong. Let me know if you need specific scripture book/chapter/verse but I urge you to look for it yourself. 2.) maybe you misunderstood or I wasn’t clear so hope this helps: the Bible is the authoritative source for truth. That’s how we know the “true way” which is what my comment was replying to. No Christian claims to have authority or the “true way” we simply follow what The Bible says about the way, which is Jesus “I am the way the truth and the life” Also nice strawman but telling you that I’m praying you doesn’t mean I prayed in front of you or others for show. I’m not sure you understood what Jesus was saying. Paul told people he prayed for them all the time. Jesus is saying we shouldn’t pray to put on a show (go read the full context of Matthew 6 to see)
We need to remember to love our neighbor as ourselves. Even though with this young kid and what he believes is wrong we should pray for people that are lost...🙏 PS remember the fruit of the Spirit Galatians 5 22 23. You have a blessed day bud.
You’re just upset because he has a coherent world view and you guys have to nitpick the Bible to fit within the view of early church fathers. We believe we can ask God and find out what to be true for ourselves. Kwaku might get firey which I will push back on but he’s right. You guys don’t have a single logical nor coherent answer on how the Book of Mormon came to be. Nor how 2 of the 3 witnesses even when they left and were excommunicated never denied the truth claims of Joseph Smith nor the Book and stayed true to that testimony til they died. But no explain that and then say he’s over his head.
Jeff and James showed great patience with Kwaku. I'm only 55 minutes into this video. It's taking everything for me not to keep watching. They are discussing the Trinity. And Kwaku seems to be intentionally talking in circles and interrupting Jeff and James. And he changes direction. I don't believe he is interested in knowing the Truth. He is missing out in learning from 2 of the best in our time. They explain everything for all to understand. Thank you Mr. Durbin and Mr. White
Rhetorical barricade after rhetorical barricade. As a former Mormon, I sympathize with Kwaku, the pressure to defend the claims of the church at the expense of the truth and under the false impression that such behavior will earn him some heavenly reward is a nearly crushing burden when you are confronted by sound exegetes of scripture.
Kwaku needs our prayers, as his LDS works-based Righteousness is clearly crushing to him. It is such a strong and common heresy, that also exists within many Orthodox Christian Spinoffs, not just the Mormons and other cults and man-made Religious paths. I love Apologia's various God Glorifying ministries💕☝️🙌. As I reach out to Mormon's and other's who are proclaiming paganism, atheism, and clearly false doctrines, I'm learning that no amount of apologetics or intelligently presented debate and arguments for the Trinity and other critical doctrines from the WORD of Truth will have any lasting affects on an unbeliever - without them being given ears to hear, eyes to see, and a new heart & spirit, to understand -and without being drawn and enabled to come to Our Great Triune God, through God's Spirit of TRUTH, all discussion will be for naught. So let's keep Kwaku in prayer, especially in light of these awesome books and New Bible that Apologia Channel and Church has given him. Praying that through the Spirit of Truth working in his mind, heart and spirit, he might become as one on Good Soil, and spared from the Evil one and his minions that are so active in Mormon Temples and Teaching. (Mark 4:20/Luke 8:15 & Col 2:6-10) Praying he'll become as many of us already have: "And you also were included in Christ, when you heard the Word of Truth, the Gospel of your Salvation. Having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession-To The Praise of His Glory 🙏🙌☝️🙂." ( Ephesians 1:13-14 ) The veil must be taken away, and one must be Born from Above (born again) before they can See the Kingdom of God ❣️ And it is only by God's Grace and gift of faith in the Truth that we've been given, in His Undeserved Mercy ALONE, that we as His Supernaturally Adopted Children can understand any of these spiritual truths and the Trinity; so we must not be prideful in any way towards Mormons or others who are still LOST. Romans 8. John 3:3= In Reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the Truth, no one can see the Kingdom of God unless they are born from above (born again, in many translations)" The Spirit of Truth must guide us into ALL TRUTH before it is truly possible to understand God as Triune. (John 14:16-17; 25-26; 15:26; 16:13) 2 Corinthians 3:16-17="16 But whenever anyone turns to the LORD, the veil is taken away. Now the LORD is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the LORD is, there is Freedom. And Vs. 18, for those who are ALREADY in Christ: "And we, who with unveiled faces All reflect the Lord's Glory, are being TRANSFORMED into His Likeness with ever-increasing Glory, which comes from the LORD, who is the Spirit." Praying for Kwaku, who while still currently a Mormon as of July 2022, through interactions like yours, with all that the Holy Spirit is potentially continuing to do in his life, as the Hound of Heaven Himself continues to pursue him- I believe he may be drawn and enabled to come to the ONLY Way, The TRUTH, and the Life, by the end of 2022, just as many of us have, To God's GLORY Alone 😊.
The most telling moment for me was when Kwaku blurted out “You believe in a talking snake” in defense on Mormon lies. He knows he is not a Christian and he knows he doesn’t believe in the Word of God.
Their comen thing they say is they only believe in the Bible as far as it's translated correctly. So basically that means if it's a verse that contradicts their religion than they don't believe it.
@@thesacredseal yep. and the phony part of the whole thing is that durbin and white are calvinists. and calvinists believe that christ will not save everyone, just the "elite" ... and of course durbin and white are part of the elite.
Dr. White did poorly on explain the time and hour and answering kwaku’s objection to Jesus sitting on the throne in Isaiah’s vision. Since God is Spirit by nature and has no form, it is obvious that he is manifesting one within his creation so he can be seen by the host of heaven. And for Jesus no knowing the time or hour, Jesus being the creator of all things is saying it is not given me the authority to disclose to you the knowledge of this event. The Son knows everything, but doesn’t know this event in a period of time, but he gave revelation on everything that he would do upon his return. The first and the last, he knows the generations that will be alive on the last day. What, he can’t triangulate to determine this specific moment in time, but all of creation is upheld by the power of his word.
There was a lot of over talking by all 3 parties. I think next time pick one specific subject both parties prepare by agreeing on what will be accepted evidence and then present the evidence. Bring a timer and just do a debate or just do timed cross fire aka timed questions and timed answers. There were so many subjects brought up that there was hardly any format and it made everything hard to follow.
Lady Samurai, this is the tactics the Mormons always take. By limiting it the Mormons could claim they wouldn't allow discussion. i do agree on rules of debate, like not interrupting etc.
@Michael H. Exactly. Jeff is obviously biased with the scholar. He was not an appropriate moderator. They totally tried to roast Kwaku and totally failed.
@@paulgregersen3570 Well said. They clearly set him up. They were nice to him by giving him gifts, then they continued to cut him off. Several times he went to answer their questions by referring to the bible and they would cut him off and distract him with another question. So, we never got to her the young man's biblical answers. This would thwart their claims that members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints don't believe in the bible. They can't have him answering their questions from the bible. Why are these men so obsessed with tearing down the LDS church? It feels like their religion IS to try to prove the restored gospel wrong. Don't they have better things to do with their time? So sad for them.
Dr. White and Brother Jeff, you both gave a _tremendous_ witness to this young mormon man. I pray for your ministries that you'll be able to continue to witness to the LDS people as they _badly_ are in need of salt and light. I pray that the young man, Elder Kwaku, comes to know the truth of who Almighty God _truly_ *IS* and has _always_ been and will be even from everlasting to everlasting. I had forgotten just how far Mormonism is from Biblical Christianity.... These poor people are truly lost...
@@thesacredseal please tell us how finding the TRUE God in the Bible and escaping the false Mormon God, is in any way "a bad decision"? Telling your people that Jesus was "CREATED" and that God WAS NOT ALWAYS A GOD AND WAS HUMAN, or even that WE can become God's and are given our own "planets" with humans who will pray to you, IS CALLED BLASPHEMY
@@360gunner Probably because Mark didn’t find “the TRUE God”, nor did he escape “the false Mormon God.” Why is it bad to believe that The Father was once a man? Is it because “tHe BiBle SaYs So” (even though it doesn’t)? Can you tell me the naturally negative consequences of believing such a thing? You’re belief is that God created morality, the laws of everything, and dictates it. If that is the case, He is the Father of all evil. You might say “But sin is what we chose, not the Father”, but that argument is negated when your Father created the concept of it and founded it. Thus, morality is as eternal as God is, and the only religion I know that claims that is the LDS religion.
35:53 and when YHVH was a man like kwaku is proposing. When he live on the habitat of his origin, weren’t there other men like him who rose to his same level of prominence, wouldn’t we have evidence for this view and what’s to spot an usurping of his authority from the other deities who rose with him or what about even before him? Is he the usurper?
Kevin J he goes all over the place. Interrupts a lot. He’s not listening to what the older men are asking, or the points they are trying to make. When James white cites the LDS belief that man is exalted, using it as an example to clarify their belief on creation vs. organization, and he was already geared up to defend exaltation and God as a man as church core history belief-not waiting and listening and understanding why James white brought it up in the first place. He’s very hasty. Before the video is even a quarter through, he’s made 3 statements about being able to use scripture to demonstrate what he says are clear facts and can’t be disputed, but never ever actually does it. And it seems he doesn’t know he’s doing it at all-because he’s already defending a new point-that isn’t even being focused on as a whole-he’s super defensive of stuff that they aren’t even on topic yet-making the discussion messy-and the two older guys are so super patient-prepared-and try to help him and give him chances to clarify what he’s saying- Kwaku makes a lot of broad statements, and never goes back to give them legs at all, instead just jumping to defending something he’s sensitive and seemingly worried about-as if he wants to get there first, kind of thing. Way too excitable, defensive, and unprepared-knowing he was going there. How could he be so wildly under prepared?
@@bcreel83 True. But he understands protestant theology because he was raised protestant until he was 15 😂 To be fair Dr. White was jumping in a lot. I think the difference is that James has something explanatory to say and Kwaku was just making sure he was heard as he raised his objections. In short, he overestimates his opinion and he seemed slightly egotistical. Things went sideways about halfway though this talk for everyone and he did not fair well in this debate. He should have tried to understand rather than constantly argue. An important thing I noticed is HE KEEPS SPEAKING TO HIS LDS AUDIENCE AND EVEN TO CHRISTIAN VIEWERS. He was trying to WIN rather than understand or be understood.
J K because he was raised Protestant? Yeah...but it’s pointed out, even by Kwaku himself, that it was a poor education. That doesn’t mean that all religious education-like CCD-or whatever voluntary religious education is available to you after Mass-is just suddenly void because Kwaku’s experience was totally lacking, and barely Christian-growing up Catholic-we would joke and call Protestants Christian Lite-obviously his experience was anorexic in comparison-if his experience of Christian teachings was what he experienced-and I trust that it is-because it’s their job to explain and demonstrate what’s right and reinforce it-if they failed-that doesn’t just erase and excise and neutralize Christianity-just because he had a really shitty experience. It doesn’t speak to the whole. And it’s wrong to broad brush and make excuses as to why it’s ok. You know I mean? I’m sure you do. All in all: NO. He doesn’t understand “Protestant” , never mind Christian theology. I feel like there’s this disconnect with people-thinking that Protestants and Catholics and Orthodox somehow believe WILDLY different things, or, laughably, use a different bible version. It’s crazy. When it comes to core beliefs-about the nature of God-who He says he is-the way to salvation and what that means....you’ve got to understand.... WE ALL agree with each other. Accept whatever nuanced “translation” of the Bible-meaning whether you use KJV or some other modern versed translation- And I don’t know if you’ve ever been told this-- But they are all compared to the SAME sources (almost 6,000 originals)--and we all agree with each other. There aren’t, like, different interpretations-in the way that some people have been told-as is there are these wildly crazy different versions that each “sect” of Christianity uses-lol-sorry-it just baffles me--we aren’t blind.
Pastor Durbin & Dr. White-- love how you both keep your peace & love through that whole debate! I give you mad props for defending the faith & the definitive authority of scripture, especially with someone unwilling to listen & learn. Hopefully, good seeds were planted! I greatly appreciated hearing what you had to say & would love to know the titles of those books! 😆
@@chancebozeman5171 Yes exactly Chance. I applaud Kwaku. He smiled and remained calm and more at peace than the Dr at least ... throughout. Until towards the end when Kwaku became more on the offence to put forward his view and stop their bullying. The other 2 were like you said... Trying to lecture. One could see them both, especially the good Dr? Becoming angry impatient agitated and even condescending toward Kwaku when Kwaku would disagree ... or offer his own views opinions and beliefs. Passive aggression so obvious. Especially from the Dr... Sad really... Trying to tell Kwaku what he did and didn't understand and even what Kwaku believed. Which is a common tack with evangelicals and LDS Haters. They know our faith better than we know our own Faith lol...
@@chancebozeman5171 There's a rebuttal I have given to the accusations of the LDS Church being non Christian and non biblical. I have answered many such accusations with this simple rebuttal that absolutely no one has come back with an answer for.... Not even an attempted answer or rebuttal yet ... and that because? There is absolutely NO REBUTTAL, WHATSOEVER...!!! and it's been almost 2 weeks now after answering so many accusations on Jeff's threads, with this simple Scripture... I don't think I will ever get a rebuttal because there isn't one lol. I mean we see all the time how different sects can and do twist and INTERPRET scripture to suit themselves. Yes. We see and hear it all the time But this scriptural rebuttal is plain simple TRUTH that cannot be misinterpreted NOR have any but ONE interpretation ... and it totally destroys the validity of any Christian church claiming to preach the True Jesus and or Gospel at all... This one Scripture validates our church as the One and Only ... TRUE GOSPEL AND CHURCH ON EARTH... Simple.. Maybe you know the Scripture I'm referring to??? ;-) Let me know if you'd like to know the verse I speak of...??? Clue??? LOL It's a New Testament scripture... ;-)
@@chancebozeman5171 PS... This scriptural rebuttal destroys any argument against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Validates us as the only Church with All TRUTH!!! Validates ALL our Doctrines, Interpretation of scripture especially the nature of God and the Godhead... I'm actually going to share this with Kwaku as well... As the Bible says... " by their own words shall they be condemned" As Joseph our beloved prophet said ... Christ declared! " they draw near to me with their mouths and with their lips do honour me but their hearts are far from me!!!
I'm already 1 hour into this video and I have noticed a pattern that I wonder if it will ever come to a completion. There has been at least 3 times Kwaku references a Bible scripture that they say they will cover as a group yet get off on a tangent and never circle back to the scripture in question to have a case be made via the scripture. The level of polite conversation has been established yet the result is that there is missing information that is mentioned and then never revealed. At this point of the video we still have not gone through the Pslam 82. One example of many in this pattern.
Ya, honestly I would chalk it up to going off on multiple differe topics etc. It's like when you watch a video on UA-cam and then all the sudden you find yourself 10 videos away from the original, and on a completely different topic. Just so caught up in. I will say it seemed the mormon just danced around and couldn't give direct answers. I don't see how he can tell God, that God can't become Jesus and self limit himself....like how is that a problem. He's a literal God in a supernatural realm that doesn't have to follow the rules of the physical. It just baffles me. He doesn't want it to be true because he knows it destroys mormonism.
WOW, maybe they should try and explain it. How can 3 separate personages be one being? It is a man made concept. The 3 personages are 3 beings and still can be one God. Jesus himself said to his Father to let them be one even as we are one. Your idea would mean that everyone would become one being like the trinity concept: yeah right, that would cause you more problems.
Grampa Graham Three persons; one in nature. There are certain qualities that are unique to the nature of God (eternal, perfect, omnipresent, all knowing, etc.) Only God the Father, God the Son & God the Holy Spirit meet the God qualities and are one in nature. They are also 3 persons, as in they can talk to each other and refer to self as ‘I’ and the other as ‘you’.
@@professionalprocrastinator8182 You see it is not what you say but what you mean that is the problem. Having one nature is not the problem, as I know that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost have the God nature, however that does not make them one being, which James and Jeff try to push. There are 3 separate personages, who are 3 separate Gods, who are 3 separate beings, who through their Godly nature are one in unity, purpose, communication, deeds etc. It is your definition of oneness and being that is in dispute. Jeff in another video mentioned 3 men in his audience being 3 separate men and beings but one in nature as being human. They are still 3 separate beings. Also I think it was James who said a rock has being, so is he saying that God is a rock? (As ridiculous in his disrespectful question to Kwaku. "does God have feathers". two grown men bully a young kid, but that is another story). In John 20:17 New International Version Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" The Father is also Jesus's God, as he is his Father spiritually and literally. This does not detract from Christ's Godhood and glory, but shows the respect Jesus has for his Father. Before you start having palpitations, you all seem to make a big deal about there is nothing Jesus did not create, well also listen to what Jesus said and place the heavy value on the word NOTHING in this scripture too. John 5:18-20 Because of this, the Jews tried all the harder to kill Him. Not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. 19 So Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does. 20 The Father loves the Son and shows Him all He does. And to your amazement, He will show Him even greater works than these.… So when Jesus says he created all things, it was only because his Father had previously shown him what to do. the Son can do NOTHING by Himself, unless He SEES the Father doing it. For WHATEVER THE FATHER DOES, the Son ALSO DOES. Berean Study Bible So when John 1 talks about the beginning, you need to ask yourself, the beginning of what: an absolute beginning or a relative one. Was it the beginning, of eternity, our universe, time, the earth? What existed before the beginning? Did light exist? Did matter exist? Did anything other than your God exist? I have other questions based on your answers? So I have shown you by the new testament and the mouth of Jesus, that the Father is Jesus's Father and God, that Jesus has done nothing that he hasn't seen the Father already do, which would mean that the Father must have been a spirit and creator also a Saviour at one time who took on a mortal body to save his fellow brothers and sisters, suffered, died and was resurrected with a perfected body and sat at the right hand of his Father, in power and glory.
@@professionalprocrastinator8182 I believe like you that they are of one Godly nature, purpose, unity. God the Father is literally Jesus’s Father, both have perfect immortal bodies of flesh and bones. That we are all literally his children and like any children we can become like him. Glad we agree.
I'm sorry... but saying the Jews were actually polytheistic is just straight up ignorance and really is just amazing that he was brainwashed to believe that. It was very clear, throughout all of history, that the Jews were different, because they believed in ONE God who always existed, and always will. And that was his first point.
You are technically correct, and I agree with you, but the counterclaim that contemporaneous secular texts strongly imply the hyperbolic nature of scriptural statements was not irrefutably answered by White. And without an irrefutable rebuttal, you reach an argumentative impasse. White stated that he was very familiar with the Mormon's argument, and if that's the case, he should have come prepared with statements from Jews adamantly denying any doctrinal affirmation of more than one God. White could then follow that up with the fact that the Jews would know more about their religious beliefs than a kid who can't even speak Hebrew. At that point, though the rebuttal isn't technically irrefutable, it stacks the evidence far higher in favor of monotheism. The closer would be an understanding of philosophy to show that the so-called God of Mormonism is in no way, shape or form like the biblical God. The essence of their God cannot ground contingent being because he is contingent himself. If the kid had any degree of intellectual honesty, that would have brought the curtain down.
@@davidcoleman5860 Realistically, it would've never affected Kwaku's opinion. (Frustratingly like Bart Erhman in that way...) I realize the following is not a deep historical or textual point, but I think it's fair to assume a little bit of bad faith on Kwaku, given that it's true, and at 90% of it is widely known by English speakers: The world has three Abrahamic religions, which all stem from the God of Abraham (allegedly). They are also commonly called the "three major monotheistic religions." Is the LDS church really saying that all of Judaism, all of Christendom (except the LDS, if they consider themselves under the umbrella), and all of Islam are either wrong about the nature of their own religions, or are somehow afraid to say they're not monotheists? (Ironically, the only one you could construe as afraid would be Islam, but more specifically, Muhammad himself. He _repudiated_ his own polytheistic revelations as being "Satanic verses," in part because the Jews and Christians were calling out that Muhammad's alleged god could not be their God, because their God is the _only_ God.)
@@jacksyoutubechannel4045 Good points, Jack. I would only say in reply that whether or not Kwaku would be convinced is secondary to a complete answer that I feel is required in a debate like this. Perhaps White was unprepared for a specific argument along that line and was winging it. In any event, a thorough reply would serve to convince fence sitters and honest inquirers of the truth of monotheism regardless what Kwaku personally does with it.
@@davidcoleman5860 I wonder a little if having to moderate (himself and/or his approach, not the conversation) in light of _Kwaku's_ approach affected his line of argumentation. Especially Kwaku wanting yes/no answers, verse by verse. I've heard James White explain Christian monotheism _to Mormons_ many times before, so I know it's in his head somewhere, but the answer I've known him to give _is_ dependent on looking at several verses and discussing what they must mean in light of each other, since they can't be interpreted to contradict one another. I agree that it's important to get a clarification out, even if it's just for the audience, though. Genuinely, it may have been wise to say, "We just want to pause and explain to our audience..." and direct a summary or clarification directly to the audience on occasion.
That simply isn’t true. A cursory glance through the Old Testament reveals that Israelites were constantly “straying” and worshipping other gods. They didn’t disbelieve in the existence of other gods - they just preferred their own, something that scholars call ‘monolatry’ as opposed to monotheism, although that began to change during the Babylonian exile.
On multiple occasions, Kwaku brought math into the conversation, stating things couldn't be as White/Durbin were explaining since they were mathematically impossible. By doing so, he is conveying his belief that mathematics is beyond God, who is limited within the confines of our mathematical understandings. I hate to tell him, but my God created math and is not limited to anything. It's par for the course though with Mormon theology. "God didn't create everything from nothing". "God was once a man who worshipped another God before Him." "I can become a god myself." Those beliefs putting God in a box are quite dangerous.
Most Christians don’t understand the trinity as it was written in the council of Nicea. The trinity is THREE persons who are distinct people who are united in every way from purpose, might, mission, love, etc. To us we can conceive them as being one God but most Christians go straight Sabellianism/modalism and believe God is this conjoined triplet. The difference is Mormons emphasis the three distinct persons. Which is more consistent with the scriptures then the mainstream view on the trinity.
@@4hisglory926 lol 😂- after watching a middle-aged man talk over a 20 year old and say let me “give you a ‘humble’ nudge.” Ain’t humble when you have to call it “humble” bro. And as an outsider, he looks like a complete jackass pontificating about the “science” of some mythical story that never happened 😂. Get a real job.
@@blacksabbathmatters that's because argument in it's core definition is contentious and contention isn't the Devil. So yeah, we try not to be contentious. It's a good thing this guy isn't arguing but rather, he's trying to have a discussion while the other two are trying to make it contentious .
@@someone-cf1xe The Gospel didn't need to be restored. Groups such as the Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Churches of Christ, etc. make this silly claim in order to make people believe they are in a special group that contains all of the truth of God. 2 Timothy 4:3 states the following: "For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." This passage truly sums up why people belong to these silly groups who all suffer from the disease known as "The True Church Syndrome."
@@swarlesbarkely2449 Scripture calls us to "contend for the faith" (Jude 3). So yes, when it comes to defending the faith, we must be contentious if need be, out of love. The Mormon dude was being more than contentious, however, he was being arrogant, prideful, rude, and unwilling to listen. You don't have to agree with or like Drurbin and White, but at least realize that the Mormon dude was a very, very bad representative for your beliefs.
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Jeff pastor please tell me where trinity is in the bible
Jeff "Chirp, chirp, chirp"
Kwaku "Chirp. chirp. chirp"
James "But chirp, chirp, chirp"
Kwaku "Unless, chirp, chirp, chirp"
James "Chirp, Chirp, Chirp"
Kwaku "CHIRP, CHIRP, CHIRP"
Jeff "CHIRP, CHIRP, CHIRP!"
I've learned so much listening to you guys.
@@benzun9600 it's through out the whole Bible
@@benzun9600 all over its only tgat you choose not to listen. Start with genesis 1v27. How can one personality say let us create? Verse 2 same chapter tells you of the Holy Spirit also present at creation. John 1v1-3 expressly allude to the fact that Jesus is God and Creator
The guy with the beard always sounds and comes across angry. I've heard him in his confrontation with Mormons in the streets of Utah. I do not believe in Mormonism but I find his manner controlling ( beating down of others)and offensive.
Excuse me. Wasnt "becoming as God" the lie that decieved Eve and led to the fall of humanity?
@Eternally Righteous Jesus is referring to people being gods of this earth as rulers and judges among other people. Check the definition of gods (plural). You need to understand the context in what Jesus was saying.
Jesus uses this passage as a rebuke to the religious leaders. Psalm 82:6 rebuked the religious of Israel who acted like they were gods, when they were not God.
@Eternally Righteous I urge you to talk to dr james. He can answer your Hebrew and Greek issue. I would not have told you this if I was distorting anything. I believe too that jesus was affirming His deity but the pharisee were trying to kill Him for it. 😁
I understand your mormon so please talk to dr james white if your interested in seeking truth.
@Eternally Righteous I have not called you name and you have started to call name. I have been nice to you please do the same.
Go and debate live with dr james if you think he is phony. He talks to Muslim many religious people and they all like him.
I am pretty new to this stuff. I thought there were no Gods before YHWH or after him.
Like i said im new ive read parts of the old testiment KJV and recently finished the New testiment last week.
But i thought our God said there were no other before or after him. If that is correct im assuming that means we cant be a god.
I was a mormon for 19 years. I began to feel this wasn't what God wanted for my life. I went outside at work and said a prayer asking, "the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to guide my life. Not the god of the Book Of Mormon. If you show me the way I will follow". A few days later I came across Jeff Durbin's videos, and he used scripture in a way that refuted everything I thought was right. He totally dismantled the false doctrines of mormonism. I feared leaving mormonism "in case it was true", but once I truly read the Bible, I no longer feared leaving. I've been free for 3 years! Now I know that God The Father is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. He is the only God, and there was nobody before Him. His power is unmatched, and He alone holds the universe in order. My faith is placed solely on Christ for salvation, because He is the only way to the Father. I can't do anything to save myself, and I'm totally fine with it! Now I try to follow the commandments not to be saved, but out of respect/fear of God, and to create a closeness with Him that wouldn't be possible otherwise. mormonism packs as much power in the Biblical sense as a box of Lucky Charms.
GLORY TO GOD IN THE HIGHEST. what an amazingly lovely story.
Aren't you just BLESSED? Can't you just FEEL that when you stop and think over your story , and how The Lord stepped in and did a miraculous work in your life, and SAVED you!?!?
Wow your story right there makes even Me feel alive! Glory to God, amen X100. I'm so happy for you. !! :)
This was awesome to read, Christ bless you brother!
So good to hear Rudy... God is amazing !!! I'm an Ex too.... so grateful that I am free of the Moronians !!!
Thanks so much for sharing! God bless you and keep you! I have a question, what does "but once I truly read the Bible"? -BobA
Tell me one doctrine that you were doubtful about? That you thought was not part of the gospel
Program starts at 4:21
And if you prefer to skip past the intros, 12:05
You’re great for this
👍
The young man, Kwaku, has an incredible talent for talking so much without saying anything at all.
Or you have an incredible talent for listening and only computing what you want to hear.
@@ChrisNevaMiss17no, I'm with the other guy. The young Kwaku was talking so much while saying so little (of value or coherence).
@@numarkaz I think it’s so ironic that Protestants use the KJV of the Bible until there views are challenged, then they all become experts in Hebrew. Also, why did Martin Luther alter the Bible to push his viewpoint?
Word vomit as I call it out when I see it at work.
I was thinking the same thing.
"I need the context before I agree with that"
2 minutes earlier is throwing out all kinds of random texts with zero context
Exactly! Listening to him constantly interrupt, refuse to listen, and throw out random rhetoric without any context was hard to listen to.
@@wretchedpoet29 it was especially hard to listen to toward the end when he was saying James wouldn't let him finish his point while Kwaku was constantly interrupting him.
Unable to provide opportunity to use scripture after being told you don’t understand scripture. A bit disingenuous to provide an opportunity to respond a certain way and then saying not allowing a full response in the way asked
sad. Is the way of Mormons! They love to try to twist things so JS looks better.
Also wouldn’t comment on his own religions books without having them
With him. Doesn’t he know or trust them?
"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit." 1st Corinthians 2:14, NIV
They’re both wrong
Jeremy Grogan wow that verse is fire! 🙌🏻 spot on
Daniel Malone Jr. what do you mean?
The Conservative Christian Both Mormonism and Protestantism are false
sKepTicS jUst DonT hAVe tHe spIriT.
The last time people wanted to become gods they doomed all of humanity.
lol
Stalin
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
John 10:34
@@JoshuaTCoe I am Time, grown old to destroy the world
@@JoshuaTCoe context bro. Jesus was condemning them
Kwakus answer to every scripture and quest: "well that's not really what that means...you just dont understand"
THAT IS NOT AN ARGUMENT
Our God is like ... "Do you want to be saved?".
But theirs is like ... "Do you want to be God?".
Sounds like satan in the garden of Eden isn't it?
Definitely does. Well said. Appeals to the original sin of pride at its very core.
More like do you want to have the blessings I have my son. That sounds like a loving father to me. Rather than I will remain god and you will remain in your state forever, that sounds like what Satan wanted when the had the war in heaven Satan wanted to be above rather than equal. Like god wants us to be equal with him.
@@jplifesong This is not the focus for latter day saints. Part of eternal life is progression.
@@melissanieciecki8626 according to mr Smith. I don’t rely on mr Smith for any resemblance of truth. Sadly millions of lost people caught up in the cult / false religion of mormonism...are entangled deeply in it.
Thankfully not me. :).
I'm sorry but yall have this wrong
“I AM the Lord, and there is no other, there is no God besides Me.” Isaiah 45:5
This is the pre-mortal Jesus Christ talking. Did he forget that he had a father? "God" is often used as a designation of authority. Certainly there was no other "authority", since his father had given all authority to him regarding the earth. Then Jesus gave up that authority to come to earth and be born as a helpless baby. Then he was crucified, resurrected, and exalted to that authority he once had, on the right hand of God.
@@robertrosskopf4641 No this is the One God talking.
@@zoomervince2457 Why is that important to believe? You can argue for it. You can argue against it. But why is it important to believe that there is just one God? Jesus prayed to "my God". Is his God not a god without Jesus? Or is his God a god regardless of Jesus? Is it important that "god" have just one definition? Or could there be gods of different types? Could the scriptures define "god" differently than modern Christians? Would that be all right? Or would it be the end of faith, if modern Christianity had adopted some false notions about God? What prophet first proposed that God is a trinity? It isn't a word ever used by Jesus or any apostle... so where did it come from? Why is it important to believe in a word that Jesus never used? Would it be a sin to call it the godhead, as it is written in the scriptures? Where does God demand that we call it a trinity?
Robert Rosskopf My friend, there is one God, and Jesus Christ is that God.
John 10:30- I and My Father are One.
This is two people of the trinity being told to us to be equal by Christ Himself. Jesus also tells us in John 4 that God is a Spirit, the Holy Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. Jesus Christ is The Way, The Truth, and The Life my friend.
God bless you and Jesus Christ loves you so much my friend! Repent and believe in the Gospel of Christ’s death on the cross to pay the price for our sins, His burial, and His resurrection from the dead, defeating death, so we could receive eternal life!
For starters I believe in the Trinity, but I believe the fundamental issue in discussing the Trinity is all based on how we view God. As a Christian with you I'm as omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence. So saying he is the father the son and the Holy Spirit can Logically make sense. But the LDS view of God as a man or Deity that has limited abilities Then believing in the holy Trinity is extremely difficult. You need to first agree on God's "power" or the lack there of
Jeff: My name is Jeff
Kwaku: I disagree
Yeah that depends on what you mean by Jeff. It's technically not Jeff, it's Jeffrey, and a variant form of the name Geoffrey (itself from a middle french variant of Godfrey, Gottfried). It is most commonly spelled as Jeffrey though. Because the variant is spelt 'Godfrey', it actually means God Free, which means the ancestry understood us humans can be free Gods. Just as the book of Mormonism says. That proves the book of Mormonism to be true.
Tyler hilarious 😂
@@Tyler-no7uj this got to me 😂😂
😂👏🏽
He’s disagreeing with theology, Jeff’s name has nothing to do with this 🤷♂️
I've been an atheist for the first 30 years of my life. I finally realized the Truth last year and have since tried to immerse myself in as much as I can. The beauty in my position is I have no bias towards any doctrine, or any religion for that matter. So I feel I can take my path unhindered by any prejudice. I've been watching White's videos for a couple months now and it's clear to me in these "debates" that he possesses a knowledge that is magnitudes above his opponents. I'm noticing that he has such a profound understanding of not only his position, but almost any other doctrine's, that he is making arguments that are beyond the ability of his opponent to even recognize as such. His opponents are punching the air because they don't have the depth of knowledge to understand the argument that is proposed to them, so they attack whatever straw man they can muster, and unknowingly at that. It's not even a conscious straw man.
Also the further this goes on, the kid has constant body language of someone who's not listening. He's just waiting for a void to respond to nothing.
I was just recently reborn as well after realizing I really wasn’t a Christian the first30 years of my life. Now withe Grace of God I can now interpret and comprehend the truth in the Bible. I learn a lot from debates and apologists. No matter the denomination, I can tell who is speaking the Truth. It just so happens certain denominations seem to not speak the Truth
That's what all those fake theological degrees will get you. Plus, people call you doctor when you aren't one.
@@StevenJamesPorter maybe it’s Satan talking to him. I think it’s the devil.
What caused you to stop using logic and become a Christian? There’s not enough historical information to confirm that Christianity is right about Jesus and that a God as described in the Bible exists? Like do you choose to ignore the lack of evidence and just believe? Because if that’s the case then that’s okay.
*Video starts at **00:04:20** (4 minutes 20 seconds)*
420 hell yea! Smoke weed every day!
13:14 if you wanna skip the intro
lets all flip to chapter 4 verse 20 see what they are telling us LOL jk
Thank you for that. They should just cut the intro instead of having us stare at them awkwardly for 4 minutes.
Apparently the universal refutation for all arguments is “Well that’s poetic.” 🤯
And 'the words in your Bible are very small,' when Jeff pointed out he didn't know where the reference verse was. This whole 'debate' is like someone wrestling with an eel.
There is only 1 God.
Sounds like when Protestants claim Jesus’ declaration of Peter as “Rock, and on this Rock I will build my church. It’s just poetic” or when James very clearly made the point that you’re not justified by faith alone. And when Luther said this was an epistle of Straw. Interesting how the tides turn when Protestants are held to the fire 😂
Seems a little “choosey” to me.
@@bn2870 I’ve never heard anyone claim poetry for those passages. Talk about an epistle of straw 😳
@@masont2429 well then you should take seriously the obvious claims of the Roman Catholic Church. Peter was the 1st pope, clearly. And according to St. Augustine.
Kwaku: I like apples.
Jeff: so you said you liked apples
Kwaku: no that’s not what I said
@Bon Jovi
@28:53
-White asks Kwaku some pretty basic questions.
-Kwaku directly admits that YHWH is the one who created all other gods.
-Kwaku then tries to change the subject because he knows he can't go further without committing heresy in the eyes of his church.
It's really not that hard. If the scriptures say YHWH created all things that came into being, and that He Himself never CAME into being, but always was, then that means He is the Ultimate. There are no other gods, in every sense of that word: there are only idols.
@Bon Jovi YHWH is the tetragrammaton. It is the abbreviated name of the LORD Yahweh that appears in the Old Testament. YHWH = LORD most of the time when you read in the old testament.
@Bon Jovi I think you typed your reply to the wrong person friend.
@Bon Jovi Yeah sorry I should have read the earlier comments. And yes, I do think Kwaku is trying to avoid heresy but 29:14 again, the question is once more repeated and Kwaku admits that YHWH created all other 'gods.' He still, however, retains his position despite the obvious admissions that YHWH is the one who created all things that were ever created. This whole 'debate' is really just White quoting scripture and Kwaku doing his best to avoid falling into heresy.
I don't disagree with you that he's avoiding heresy to his church, but it's not that he doesn't know. He has answers ready from mormon doctrinal sources, especially when referring to the interpretations of text that supposedly show that ancient jews were polytheistic (seen several times before the 28 minute mark). He obviously knows his position, and what he is trying to defend. His position remains indefensible though when put to the standard against scriptures that say that God is the only god who ever has been or ever will be.
I just can't wrap my head around why people of color are members of a church that initially didn't like them and wouldn't let hold the priesthood until the one and only true church succumbed to political pressure. Why would you ever join knowing that this racism existed and only changed due to political correctnesd.
This is one of the best arguments against student loan forgiveness I have ever seen.
One dude debating another dude about which magical creature is true, based off of texts written in the Bronze Age.
@@bn2870 magic is science we don't understand, you just admitted you know nothing about God.
@@xcritic9671 didn’t know magic is science we don’t understand. Good to know.
@@bn2870 tis a colloquialism
@@xcritic9671 not sure what you mean.
I was forced into mormonism at the age of 6yrs and in trying to please my parents, I wanted to understand and learn the teachings. As time passed and I could comprehend their doctrine, I had much trouble accepting anything else but the Bible. I couldn't speak out against mormonism because my wretched mother would have beat me severely. I once did the baptism for the dead and could not wrap my head around the fact that I was to live for somebody else. The Word of God clearly states that when it's over, it's over. No other will account for my Life. We will reap what we sow when we are Judged for our own choices. Nor could I understand why the baptismal font was placed upon 12 graven images of oxen. It seemed very wrong... innapropriate to perform a false ritual on a bunch of animal statues. I felt like I was breaking the 2nd Commandment. Thank God my parents divorced(I was 16yrs) and I was freed from captivity of the mormon corruption. 10 years of walking in confusion and sadness. What a waste... except for reading the Bible at seminary befor school started. I have always gravitated to God's Word and His Son Jesus the Redeemer of Man. Thank You Lord for carrying me all this way...
The twelve oxen represent the twelve tribes of Israel going out into the world, gathering scattered Israel from both sides of the veil. Why are oxen used? Much of it is symbolic. The oxen are related to the work being done. There is a reason for being under the baptismal font. They carry the work. An ox is a symbol of a good worker. Being a bull that is castrated and tame, you wouldn't have any trouble with the animal working the field. It is meek and obedient.
I am sorry that you were forced into Mormonism and that your mother would beat you if you said a word against it. I pray that you may reach the point of forgiving her.
What a wonderful testimony. Live for Jesus my friend! God bless you
I have Family that are Mormon and they are Brain Washed it's so sad, the grandkids were taught this false doctoral Joseph Smith crap since Birth and they are Well Educated people but have 0 common sense!! They couldn't pour water out of a BOOT!!
Praise Jesus
I’m a Christian father of a son that I allowed to be baptized in the LDS church
I’m so thankful to Apologia Studios for sponsorship of this debate, and I’m the beneficiary of a stronger Christian faith
I’m also thankful that my son’s eyes were opened to this false prophet
I’ll continue to pray that Almighty God will forgive our ignorance as well as our sin
s
I’m recently baptized by immersion (probably 50 years or more late) and I’m praying that my son will be baptized again into the TRUE church
I’m SUCH a late bloomer
You know that the Temple of Solomon also had a font on the backs of twelve oxen, right? When one is baptized, they become adopted into one of the twelve tribes of Israel. Baptism is a Jewish conversion rite.
Only three comments so far and two of them are negative. Wow! Let me the the first to say Praise God for open lines of communication. This is how Gods seed gets planted. Thank you J. White and J. Durbin. All Gods glory!!
Carl J Martin I was talking about comments on this feed. Yes I understand debate and yes I understand the arguments. What bothers me is people who are watching a Christian podcast throwing hate and shade to the people trying to bring the gospel and work through serious theological differences
Satan as a serpent - “ Eat the Apple, you can become a god “
Joseph Smith ( the false prophet ) - “ Yea, what he said. “
moron, if you can't even get the first part right ... the second means nothing.
satan did NOT say "eat the apple, you can become a god"
satan said "eat of the "fruit" then you can be "like" god, "knowing good from evil."
go read your bible, dummy.
@@grayman7208 God Bless you. Hope you find the peace you clearly lack.
@@Johanmiami1 i have total peace ... thanks.
my you find the truth.
god bless, and good luck.
@@grayman7208 The real Jesus Christ of the true Bible is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Not the carbon copy created by a false prophet scammer who is dead.
@@grayman7208 Funny joke. You cant spell Mormon without Moron.
Dr. White & Jeff . . . I can’t believe I made it this far. God is truly in you. Absolutely excruciating! Your patience is beyond measure and ever time you answered the young man’s question, he diverts. And I mean every time. He’s a lovely, zealous, sincere young man but he’s not listening. I have a difficult time listening to irreverence to GOD, especially when one doesn’t know it. Much Love & Prayers to all of you.
what i learn from this debate: humbleness.
@hamid mansoor begone satan!!!
I came here and for very confused
You didn't learn humbleness from the arrogant Mormon I can tell you that much.
@@jackfoot1257 The Mormon seemed humble to me and very articulate.
@@jackfoot1257 I'm sure the Jews thought Jesus arrogant, but it was the confidence that comes with the spirit of God. It wasn't arrogance when Joseph Smith commanded that a women's arm be healed. He was speaking for God. That is what prophets do.
I don't see anyone else saying this, so I'll say it:
That's one nice studio.
Nic Epperson hahaha that was my first thought when the video started.
I wonder who paid for it?
Looks like a Clan meeting room lol
Lol
What's with that occultic symbol right above Jeff's head???
“Nobody can u understand the doctrine of the trinity “. Response James white “my kids can” 😂
That was funny hahah
But they can’t…
Nicene creedal Christians like James White also say God is incompressible. Unknowable. Without Feeling, Without Passion. It is just another difference between to true Church of Jesus Christ, and the rest of Christianity - as we believe it is the first principle to know God the Father and His son Jesus Christ. Of course the trinity is unknowable and incompressible because it breaks the dictionary, and math. It can't be described in logical terms - hence it is unknowable. I call the trinity an "it" but really it is a non-"it". Its nothing. Not made of material, which is also another impossibility, and where does this trinity exist? everywhere and nowhere. Again another impossibility. The whole trinity thing is almost 100% incorrect, which is hard to do on almost any subject. And the trinity is most definitely not biblical - its creedal.
Again, Dr. White seems to flex by using comparative jabs such as:
1. being around longer than his opponents,
2. his kids understanding the Trinity
Just drives me crazy. He comes across as so cocky. Not humble or kind in any way.
1 Peter 3:15
I think what he meant was, "My kids pretend to."
Ever sat there and wonder "how on earth are you not getting this? "
This is basically how I felt the whole time about the trinity debate
Yes exactly, i was surprised at how many times he set up the same straw man to keep knocking it down. In the end i believe he perfectly understood the explanation from Dr White but refused to see it because by feigning ignorance he doesn't have to concede the point. He's young and still learning and hopefully will come to the actual Christ. But i think he should have shown a little more humility when talking with an actual scholar like White, especially when making statements like it's common knowledge Jews were polytheistic and the Trinity doesn't make mathematical sense after being repeatedly corrected. Still an interesting discussion ain't it funny how JW, LDS, Judaism and Islam all use the same arguments about the Holy Trinity.
Matthew 16:16-18
Same hurts my heart for him
I once fell into this camp, as I was involved in Mormonism for 20+ years before falling away, feeling that something just wasn't right, and later in life when I was dealing with a major illness, experiencing night terrors, powerful panic and anxiety attacks, fiery brain syndrome... I was miserable and found myself turning to the Lord, got a Bible (KJV), and for the first time in my life, started to read, study, and pray on the word of God.
I prayed and asked the Lord of the Bible, to show me his ways, to guide me to know spiritual discernment. Soon after, I found a true Bible teaching / preaching church, with a great pastor that sticks to the Bible only, and holds true to it's teachings, doctrines, principles.
My eyes were opened and I came to the full understanding that everything I was taught in Mormonism was false, and now today, when I look back at where I was, I can't even imagine how I started there in the first place.
What I have seen is that the vast majority of Mormons that do leave, they fall into atheism and leave for other reasons that are not spiritual in nature, as in, they just give up and don't even feel like there is a true God, a true Christ (one in the same) and don't know how to digest or accept the Trinity let alone the God of the Bible, and not the God of Mormonism.
As I listen to this young man speak, he seems to constantly stumble over his own thoughts, his own beliefs, and continuously sows confusion as he ping pongs back and forth on the terminology he is trying to use, the meaning of the words, and this is the same thing I have witnessed from the LDS leadership for as far back as I can remember with what I call "double talk".
When we can go back and look at what prior Mormon prophets have declared, only to have it refuted by future ones, it concerns me greatly as the theme seems to have shifted from "trust in the prophets" to "trust in the current living prophet" and "pay no attention to those dead prophets, because they are not living, and we are, so listen to us".
@@Daniel-Marson K shouldve shown some Humility??? LOL
Are you serious?
The other 2 need to humble themselves.
Theyre actually gettn angry and combative in attitude...
Passive aggression MUCH!!!
“God is NOT A MAN that He should lie.”
Numbers 23: 19
He is not a lying man... but every report shows him looking like a man, with head, arms and feet... Paul said that we were children of God, and shouldn't expect God to be gold, or silver or stone. What should we expect? That God is a man like ourselves, albeit perfect and immortal.
@@robertrosskopf4641 How is God a man when in Philippians 2 it says:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, *and was made in the likeness of men:*
It says Jesus was in the form of God, BUT took on the form of MAN,
so if God is a man, you are basically saying Jesus is a man who took on the form of a man, and that makes absolutely no sense...
if Genesis says God made man in His image, and according to you mormons that somehow magically means God is a man,
then why does phillippians 2 says Jesus was in the FORM of God BEFORE He became man, if God is a man?
Jesus taking on FLESH means flesh is not the form of GOD, but something different (spirit), notice He WAS in the form of God, BUT NOW took on human flesh (man), THUS GOD IS NOT A MAN.
Also you end up butchering Johns prologue and John 1:14, because after all according to you God is a man (flesh), so it makes no sense for the Word to become flesh (man) if He is already flesh (man).
Repent of your heresy that God is a man.
What a wicked cult, truly sons of satan and doctrines of demons. You must repent of this blasphemy.
@@first_last2740Language is imperfect. Words can convey too little or too much, being subject to imagination to some degree. We think we know what people mean when they say something, but we aren't always on the same page. Trinitarians look at the Bible and imagine that it teaches the Trinity. The members of the Church of Jesus Christ look at the Bible and imagine that it teaches the Godhead. Which is true and which is imagination? And who has the right and responsibility to define the terms?
Ultimately, I think it is God's responsibility to define the terms. That can only happen through revelation. We have to go to him to understand what his prophets have written. Otherwise imagination comes into play, and a clever conman can preach a different gospel, and persuade people to believe in the philosophies of men.
The definition of the word "Trinity" cannot be found in the bible, because the word "Trinity" cannot be found in the Bible. The word "Godhead" is in the bible, but it is never really defined. The Greek Theotes is translated as Godhead in the confusing verse Colossians 2:9. The subject is given in the previous verse; Paul is talking about the nature of God. His point is that we should 1) ignore what the philosophers are saying(v.8), and 2) that the fulness of godliness was in Jesus(v.9). What were the philosophers saying? The philosophers were teaching that God was immaterial, and that he was more akin to thought. God, as embodied in Jesus, was very material. These are not discrepancies that can be easily harmonized. All of Christianity eventually ignored Paul's council and went with the Greek philosopher's definition of god, the god without body, parts or passions.
Then came along Joseph Smith, who saw God and Jesus in a vision, where God introduced Jesus as his "beloved son". Are these the gods of philosophy? The ones without body, parts or passions? Or are these the gods of the New Testament, the Father and the Son that Stephen also saw in vision?
So, then, what is a man? According to the ancient song, men are a little lower than the gods (Psalm 8:5). "What is man that You are mindful of him,
And the son of man that You visit him? For You have made him a little lower than the gods, and you have crowned him with glory and honor."
The word "elohim" is usually translated in this verse as "angels", but the word is unmistakably "gods". In Genesis it is the "Elohim" who create the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1). What is this "glory and honor"? In Revelation 3:21, the faithful are promised that they will sit on the throne of God. It doesn't get more glorious or honored than that. To sit on the throne of God is to act as God.
Philippians 2:6 tells us that Jesus was in the form of god. Jesus had a physical body. "Handle me and see, for a spirit has not flesh and bones as ye see me have." (Luke 24:39) So God has a physical body, as tangible as mans, just as Joseph Smith taught. Men were created in the image of God(Genesis 1:27). Our form or image is dictated by our DNA. So if you define a man as someone with the form or DNA of a man, then Jesus was certainly a man, and by extension, his father was a man.
Robert Rosskopf your pathetic excuse to reject what I wrote shows in your ignorance of the scriptures and you utter butchery of them. Notice how you refuted yourself, on the one hand you say that the word Elohim means “gods” and yes it does, however words only mean what their context determines them to mean, it’s not a lottery guessing game where we pick and choose whatever we decide they mean.
The Bible is CRYSTAL CLEAR that GOD, THE GOD, YHWH GOD, the ONE AND ONLY, created heaven and earth and ALL that is in them. This action of CREATION is ascribed to the FATHER SON AND SPIRIT, notice how these 3 are ALWAYS throughout the entire Bible, not only 2 or 2, and not 4, but THREE over and over and over and over and over again.
I don’t care what that son of Satan Joseph Smith said because he should have read that of even an angel comes preaching a different gospel let him be accursed, by the very words of scripture Joseph Smith is a son of Satan.
My crystal clear example of Philippians 2 utterly refuted you, as everyone can see your pathetic attempt to answer fails miserably. Luke 24:39 is after the resurrection, not sure if you knew that.... and we Christians believe Jesus does indeed have a physical body, note how you refute yourself again, IF THE WORD BECAME FLESH THEN WHATS THE POINT OF BECOMING FLESH IF HE ALREADY HAS A PHYSICAL BODY HELLLOOOOOOOO???????
@@first_last2740 I understand where you are coming from. You have been taught by mainstream churches. You are unwilling to give up the fantasy that the salesman have sold you. No one wants to admit they are wrong. I get it. In the game of pride, one must never admit they are wrong. Otherwise one appears to be mortal, and subject to error.
I would bet that I know the scriptures in far more depth than you do. I notice that you didn't refute even one of the long list of scriptures I quoted. To the average Christian, they are invisible. You don't even see them. Or you translate them to words that are meaningless, and thus diminish the gospel of Christ. Either way, your teachers are false teachers, and you have been led astray.
You said "words only mean what their context determines them to mean". There is some truth to that. The same word can have multiple definitions, and one must select the correct definition based on the perceived context. That being said, one must ask why one word is used if a better word is available to communicate the idea. Why select "gods" if one means to say "angels"? Either the author is an idiot, or the reader is trying to change the subject. I believe it is the latter. Men are only a little lower than the gods.
IF I just arbitrarily change words into completely different words, then how will anyone understand me? How can I have any hope of being understood?
Jehovah (or Yahveh, if you prefer) is the creator, the Father of Heaven and Earth, and he was the premortal Jesus. He was the great spirit, before he was born to mortality, at which point he was no longer god. He was just a helpless baby. He needed milk just like any other baby. He did those things that babies do. He didn't answer prayers or run a universe. His Father took on a greater role, while he was living a mortal life.
Actually, the Bible is not crystal clear when it comes to what "all things" represents. "All things" is vague. It is never spelled out. It is a generalization. When there is an elaboration, the opposite is communicated. "without him was not anything created that was created"(John 1:3). That implies that not everything was created, and that Jesus was not the only one involved in creation. So which is true? The generalization, or the specific? The way that language works, is that generalizations are only true generally, and are modified when greater detail is added. You get in the car, put the key in the ignition, turn the key, and put your foot on the gas pedal and the car goes. This is a generalization. Perhaps the battery is dead. Perhaps there is no fuel in the car. Perhaps someone stole the tires. Although generally true, it is just a generalization, and must be taken as such.
Of course Jesus didn't have a physical body before he was born. He was a spirit. His father had a physical body. And when Jesus returned to reign with his father, he had a physical body too. He didn't die twice. Stephen saw them both, Father and Son, reigning together.
I respect the Mormon kid for his willingness to put himself in a position, knowing that he would be on the defense most of the time. However, it really irritated me when he kept trying to talk over them when they would bring up scripture to support their pov. Scripture was convenient for his argument until it wasn't, at which point he would refute it as poetic language or try to talk over them. Pretty interesting to carry a Bible around saying you believe what it says, only to argue against what it says whenever it doesn't line up with your religious pre-suppositions.
For those who want to skip to when Jeff absolutely buries these false Mormon teachings ff to 2:03:00
Absolutely. Well worded brother
listening from the beginning for a time but then it gets too incoherent to bear, someone saying "the bible clearly says, without demonstrating where what how etc and playing with semantics and saying blah blah blah it was the ancient context but actually modern interpretation of joseph smith, and just disagree and being dishonest... thanks for saving us the waste of time
Would love to do an analysis of who interrupted who the most. Lots of interruptions on both sides.
Amazingly said love to the boy but pray he knows the truth until it’s to late
"Scripture was convenient for his argument until it wasn't..." - Which sadly is exactly what happens in Calvinism
I don't focus on Mormons, but I felt "sorry" for Kwaku here. He sometimes acted arrogantly, and as a result, constantly got "schooled" by James White on Christian central doctrines that he clearly misunderstood, and also when cornered, Kwaku got emotional near the end. Pray for him to accept the true Gospel.
Additionally: Evangelism is growing. There has been a rapid growth, thanks to the global Christian revival that's taking place worldwide. Especially in Eastern Europe, Russia, & the U.S. Unfortunately for Mormonism, is seemingly declining.
ua-cam.com/video/UzmYvJesP1g/v-deo.html
And;
ua-cam.com/video/kIapBtv0yi4/v-deo.html
And very disrespectful by his mumbling at points being made.
He couldn’t defend himself or Joseph smith so he had to act immature and show him self to be an ass. He clearly lost the debate he brought a stick to a tank fight. Logic and truth beat him. Hopefully he will walk away from being a Mormon to knowing the real and true Jesus
I will pray for him. He's really a good kid and I quite like him.
This is very good news for Christianity. I hope the trend continues. But as I read these posts, I am saddened by the antagonism in most of them. We should be respecting each other and working together more instead of attacking each other so much.
Love how open to engage this young man was. A very intelligent and graceful conversationist! I do personally believe Mormonism is in error, but love to see these kind of discussions taking place!
I once heard that no matter how many times you give evidence and logic to someone and they consistently deny...then it's not a mind problem it's a heart problem. They don't want to know the truth.
Exactly! He doesn’t want to know what they believe.
You don’t understand the bible and you deny what The bible says “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.”
Galatians 1:8-9 ESV and
“And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.”
2 Corinthians 11:14-15 ESV
The demon inside him was calling the shots...masquerading as a "holy" spirit.
both parties in this video are guilty of this
@@Cygnusx2210 guilty of what?
After reflecting on this for a couple of hours, here are my thoughts on both sides:
- Durbin & Dr. White could have done better in redirecting the conversation to stay on topic, as an example Kwaku mentioned Psalm 82 in relation to man being gods or like god (something along those lines as I recall) & they never circled back around to it.
- This was the first video I have seen Kwaku in, and he gave me the impression that he is a rather arrogant young man at heart. I believe in granting the benefit of the doubt, but as the conversation went on he seemed to get only more brash & disrespectful.
- I took issue with Kwakus intentional distractions, denials & deflections when salient questions were directed at him. This is the kind of stuff that is the bread and butter of modern Mormon apologists, and it stifles getting down to the heart of the matter.
- Kwaku seemed to be VERY dishonest about what Mormons believe in some key areas, namely that Elhoim = The Father, and Jehovah = The Son. Yet he claimed they were interchangable, but that is not what is taught in the temple endowment ceremony, or gospel principles for that matter. Then 20 minutes later made the distinction & wasnt called out for his double speak by Durbin & White. [It's likely they didn't catch that at the time]
- Pseudo Intellectualism was evident in this discussion, Kwaku repeatedly stated that he understood reformed theology & the doctrine of the Trinity, yet repeatedly and incorrectly tried to define & describe them ad nauseum. When Durbin & Dr. White tried to correct him, he got defensive and hostile because he didn't have a scripted response prepared and/or memorized to actually deal with what he was being told so it seems the only tactic he had left in his arsenal was to engage in distraction, deflection & denial.
- Kwaku made a number of claims without quantifying them, furthermore he seemed completely ignorant to the reality that quoting apostates (aka - early church fathers) and/or pagan religions to somehow prove the historicity & by extension the legitimacy of his theological presuppositions via a Texas Sharpshooter fallacy, is fundamentally self refuting to his worldview.
- Dr. White was absolutely correct to point out that Kwaku was not quite as well studied on what the various polytheistic pantheons believed as he considered himself to be. Whether the misrepresentations were deliberate or not is another issue, but Kwaku was grasping at straws to try and make connections that fundamentally were not there to begin with.
- Durbin & Dr. White could have done better in providing more verses from scripture on particular doctrinal points. Kwaku claimed the Father had a body, and John 4:24, Luke 24:39 makes it clear that is not the case; they took a different route but maybe its just a difference in evangelistic / polemic methodology, idk for sure.
- Kwaku was frustrating to listen to, particularly because he lacks the patience to listen long enough to understand what he was being told. It seemed as if he was listening ONLY to respond, and this greatly hampered the progression of the discussion over all. Things had to be repeated to him multiple times, and rephrased as well in patient & gracious attempts on the part of Durbin & Dr. White to try and help him intellectually apprehend what he was being told.
- Kwaku most definitely displayed contempt and a lack of respect for his elders, Im not sure if that was the real Kwaku or if it was nerves or what, but it reflected rather poorly on him when the other two gentlemen were making it a point to try and let the other finish their points & responses, where he was quick to speak, and slow to listen. I have spoken with missionaries in the past who have displayed similar behaviors during their proselytizing, so I consider it par for the course. However, he would do well to really invest in some introspection on that point. Being domineering, or the loudest, or the most verbose does not serve to convince people. I hope he figures that out as he matures.
No, you saw the true, arrogant, disrespectful Kwaku. Jeff mentioned a debate he did 3-4 months ago against Aaron Shafovaloff. It's on UA-cam. He kept going on about, "This is fact, it's not an opinion, there's not even a debate about it" for most of his claims, even though his statements were either (1) debatable, or (2) clearly wrong. For instance, he wanted to argue that the Christian God was responsible for the Holocaust, and for Anne Frank being "murdered and burned". Anne wasn't "murdered and burned". She likely died of Typhus. Kwaku wanted to claim (as undeniable fact) that the term "monotheism" was coined by Philo of Alexandria "well after the New Testament period". The problem is that Philo lived from c. 20 BC - c A.D. 50. That is NOT "well after the New Testament period". He's ignorant and arrogant, and that's a very bad combination.
Thanks for all the details. I don't have time to listen to it all at the moment at least. I was just surprised and glad that he was willing to debate them and hope he comes back. It is a fine line to walk to speak the truth in love without offending them. They believe so many things that are remarkably offensive and/or defy reason.
(and I am not easily offended but there's a limit.)
Thanks to the others in this thread for their comments.
Craig Bullock I’ve talked to Him before
Craig Bullock - one (constructive) criticism I would make of Dr White on this occasion is that in talking at the same time as Kwaku he did what he has criticised others for doing, he failed to bring the audience along with him. I don’t know whether he was not feeling well or tired or just a bit fed up with an arrogant youngster, let’s face it you have to be pretty arrogant to go up against two older, mature men on your own!
Realtruthtv my chst with him certainly was more direct and. Straight to the point. No room for sighting.
Our math and God's math is not the same.
Taking a five loaves of bread and some two fish and feed over 5000 people?
Our math and God's math is not the same.
God is mythological, so he has no math.
@宇宙不思議な no
Colin Java how did you even wander to this page lol?
@@jonhowerton2537 Was looking at mormonism, cause its funny.
Colin Java God definitely brought you to this page ! YOU might think it’s because you were going to be amused, but God has better plans for you my friend, I hope you listen to more of this channels videos
You CANNOT teach someone who REFUSES to hear it. And he absolutely refuses to hear it.. ready to respond before they even finish. No matter what they said , he was not going to listen.
Not a mormon but feel bad for Kwaku.
If he misunderstands something explain it. Stop reminding him every second how he misunderstands. Lack of clarification is your fault not his. He kept asking for clarity and not much was given.
James Maurer you’re an enabler for sinful behavior Kwaku displayed. He was disingenuous and tried to use false arguments throughout refusing to consider the truth or anything outside what he has been myopically programmed to believe. This guy came with a contentious sinful spirit and tried to even proselytize like some ungrateful arrogant snake. Don’t feel bad for a pretentious self edifying sinner like this kid, don’t be an enabler to those who are disrespectful to gracious people.
@@I_discovered_civilization nice, agreed, this kid will never learn if we coddle him, he needs to be knocked down a peg, saw him on Heart of the Matter (I love Shawn) and he was impossible to listen to
DekkyTheAwesome you’re an idiot because you stupidly say I’m dogmatic without evidence, strawman much? I addressed his behavior as an unwilling participant to their discussion, yet you come here with strawman tactics? Lol, dude you’re stupid af.
not really.. they explain multiple times but he refused to acknowledge their explanation.. he even said that normal people can't understand what they said.. even i understand "trinity" and "spirit" at 10 years old, years before i was saved.. am i not normal then?
That’s because these guys were more interested in defending ‘reformed theology’ aka John Calvin’s teachings rather than what the Bible actually says.
Pathetic.
Kwaku returned to SLC still a Mormon. The debate was interesting, but did not convert Kwaku. He was 'outgunned' but his pride blinded him to the truth.
Hopefully those seeds planted will eventually come to fruition and Kwaku will come to serve the one true God and accept Jesus as his Lord and Savior
Kwaku’s testimony of a loving Heavenly Father that understands us was so powerful that I felt it in my heart that it was true. Good on him for bearing his testimony at the end of the show!
@@srilankangenie He gave his testimony about a false Jesus.
@@m7m746 Calvinist Jesus is not biblical. Jesus doesn’t organize the holocaust
@@srilankangenie I agree with you. Maybe you shouldn’t assume that I am a Calvinist.
The Mormon was actually upsetting me during this debate because he kept stating that he would show evidence of what he believed from scripture but kept running all over the place and never actually presented anything.
EXACTLY. ive seen this before in mormon debates when a claim is brought up and then backed up by scripture by one debater then the other debater throws in their claims but can't show evidence for them, and when they are able to show evidence it's a personal interpretation instead of the plain scripture.
God did not make the Bible hard for us to understand, why would the good Lord complicate something so important so that we could not understand it? We should have child like faith towards the Trinity and not twist scriptures for our own sinful finite minds to comprehend.
if we need help with certain texts we should ask God for help and not lean on our own understanding, when you do try to do it on your own you'll have something similar to the mormon doctrine that at its worse is a misunderstanding and at its best blasphemy.
This is because both of the other debaters did not allow him to clarify himself
Matthew Burns? Wrong!
He had lots of time but never used it to do so, more than once they tried to steer him back to him saying he could defend a point and he still went elsewhere
Let the truth be told He was a bit disrespectful but he did a pretty good job defending himself. He did not play by his opponents rules: as is Mormon custom 🛃
Yup. He only has claims and his faith is in the work of man rather than God.
Being a black Mormon is CRAZY to me. As a black man myself, it could never be me. I know the history.
Fr , they say “ God cursed them with black skin “ like bro how does one even believe this
He just wants attention
You obviously don’t know the history. The prophet Joseph Smith was an abolitionist and the very first presidential candidate to run on a platform of abolishing slavery and treating native Americans with respect. In fact, he was the first presidential candidate to be assasinated and a lot of that was due to racist “Christian” Missourian’s that were afraid the Saints would grow large enough to vote to abolish slavery in their state. The racism entered our church years later after many southern baptists were converted and brought their racism with them. Fortunately, we have removed that remnant from the southern baptists and other evangelicals that joined the early church and introduced the curse of Cain nonsense to the early saints. None of that came from the restored church setup by the prophet Joseph smith.
Brigham was wildin😂😂😂😂
The one and only thing Mormons got right, and they cucked out on it.
Does anyone else think they would get much further as a discussion if they offered their arguments and answers separately rather than spending a very large portion of time trying to talk over each other?
Perhaps
Jeff and James had to do that because they were losing a debate to a teenager.
@@BoxChildFilmsis this sarcasm? You think they were on the losing end of this debate?
@@cizneerob as an outsider - with absolute zero investment in either side - this grown man is trying to convince an open-minded college kid that some strange, convoluted belief system is easy to understand for 10 year olds. No it’s not easy to understand. Which gives this kid every right to say “sounds different to me!”
This dude is debating the science of unicorns. Good for this kid for not obsessing his time with this. Mormonism is just as insane as Protestantism.
Just about every outside, secular scholar agrees the Jews had a polytheistic belief system which kind of morphed into a form of monotheism very very late in their history.
This is a waste of human energy. Strikes me that these two older guys have to argue about this to continuously convince themselves that their convoluted belief system is written in the sky. Even though there are 40,000 protestant denominations. And why Catholic scholars laugh their asses off at these guys. And I’m not Catholic, but I would be if I believed there was a dude who walked around on a lake and rose from the grave after being buried dead for 3 days 😂
Total agreement.
Kwaku’s arrogance is bothersome.. a bit sad as well.
I actually think both men handled themselves really well, under the circumstances. It was inevitable that Kwaku would get frustrated towards the end when his points weren't landing.
i think his arrogance is really just a defense mechanism to cover his insecurity and lack of knowledge. the kid cannot catch an argument laid simply in front of him. he is kinda smooth brain
LOL they are all arrogant. Knowledge breeds arrogance. I would be 3 times as arrogant as them if I were half as smart as any of them (yes even Kwaku El is very smart)
He's not arrogant. He's just well read and good at debates. Some people may not agree with his ideas. That's another thing.
@@scottbrandon9390 ...well, after all, the arrogant can't see arrogance.
They think call pride as 'well read' and 'good at debates'.
So many people lost. Praying this Mormon and all others are saved.
Pray these calvanists and mormon are saved and preach Who the real Go of the Bible is. He does NOT cause sin for His "glory".
Why are you praying for that? Isn’t it predestined anyway…? 🤔
@@howabout5177 he was determined to pray. Duh :) if he decides by his own free will to pray, that would be taking God's glory. What makes him smarter or better than others that didn't pray?
@@rocketsurgeon1746 "calvanists"??? You're putting Calvinists and Mormons in the same category?? Love to hear that rational!!
@@mhoward1456 neither believe in the God of the Bible.
I really admire the way Jeff and Dr. White were so kind and patient with the kid.
This kid speaks very well, and is very highly skilled in debate, and is very confident in himself. He constantly shifts from one idea to the next and from one scripture to another and never really lets the conversation get to the point where he has to say anything meaningful, and will shift and send them off onto another rabbit trail. The few times he IS cornered into making a real argument on something, it’s very weak. His whole goal is just to confuse the conversation, and bring confusion to the text.
@@thepreacher5934 troll
@@thepreacher5934 troll
@@thepreacher5934 troll
Yeah he literally just talks in circles and because he's a pleasant person it's disarming to anyone who's expecting a heretic to be foaming at the mouth...kinda like the Hollywood idea the devil is running around with a pointy tail and a pitchfork as a lil red troublemaker, Satan and his ministers are not that conspicuous when they're really out to do harm.
Yes because there are demons at play
Anyone else Imagine Jesus sitting in the room “not saying a word” but just observing the whole thing.
Then asks a short series of questions with simple references and then each one has to pick a side.
Stay with Jesus, or go.
All Kwaku seems to do is to continually equivocate and dodge. Being a former mormon I have come to understand why mormon apologetics are very rare.
Mormon apologetics are rare due to at least two facts: 1. Personal truth 2. Inconsistent reasoning.
Who makes that Bible you gifted him ??
I appreciate Dr. White's patience.
This kid is more patient than “Dr.” White. And he probably can’t even legally drink.
They both believe in lunacies. Good for this kid for having a more open mind.
@@bn2870 Lunacy?....please elaborate
@@lespaul382 believing a guy turned water into wine and rose again from the dead is a good place to start.
@@bn2870 I'm assuming your an atheist?...
@@lespaul382 I guess. Agnostic is a better word, but sure.
Jeff: Quotes verse
Kwaku: That's poetic
Jeff: What verse was that?
Kwaku: eh uh eh uh, how can I know every verse?
Amazing. If it points to something he doesn't believe, he knows it's poetic before he even know what book of the Bible it's from.
If he answered what book it was from correctly would it make what he believes true?
@@thesacredseal I don’t remember what his point was now since this was 3 months ago, but no, simply remembering the book would not make him correct.
Now if it was really a poetic, then he’d have a point. But when you don’t know where the verse is from, you don’t know if it’s poetic or not either.
Its easy these days to find yge verses quockly using your phone. Just typing in a few words of the verse and the letters kjv usually yield whatever verse it is that you remember but that you don't remember the chapter and verse for.
Does James White realize the verses he’s quoting were given to him by the Roman Catholic Church?
@@MansterBear Heres somthn thats not poetic but simple prophetic TRUTH...
Im going to share somethn you need to see and understand.
It will show you the Truth of the Book of Mormon right ther in the Bible you claim to believe...
I hope you will see the folly of what you believe.
If you dont then Its bcos you are in Darkness and there is no light in you.
Ill pray for ya!
Consider this!!!
You dont know it but every single sect on the planet does not have the complete truth and do not follow the True Christ.
They all claim we LDS follow a false Christ and claim we are deceived....
Nope!
They are the ones who are deceived...
The apostle John prophesied in Revelations....
"and I saw an angel flying in the midst of heaven BRINGING the Everlasting Gospel to PREACH to the inhabitants of the earth before the Great and Terrible Day of the Coming of the Lord...
So the question is....
Why would God find it necessary to send an angel to bring the Everlasting Gospel
to the earth....
IF the Everlasting Gospel IS ALREADY HERE AND CONTAINED IN THE BIBLE?
All of Christianity claims the Bible is all God ever intended for us to have.
Ther is to be no further scripture from god but here we have god telling us he would send an angel to BRING the Everlasting Gospel! Hmmmmmmm!!!
The validity of the Christian doctrines, among all sects, ALL live or die, Stand or Fall on this one prophecy by John!!! Many other scriptures but this one alone would be enuff evidence for the sincere seeker of Truth!!!
It doesnt take the HG to tell anyone the answer to this question.
So Id like to say to all LDS deserters and haters!
Ya might wanna reconsider your choice!!!
Just saying!!!
Dont be deceived!!!
This is His Gospel and Church...
Joseph was a Prophet of God.
The Book of Mormon IS the Everlasting Gospel prophesied would
be delivered, by an angel, coming from the presence of God in the Last Days!!!
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints ...
is the Church and Kingdom of God on earth Restored by HIM.
The only Church with All His Authority and the complete Truth...
God Bless...
No one ever gives me a rebuttal to this Prophecy.
The silence is deafening.
Maybe you'll be the 1st??? LOL
I think you two did a fantastic job and seemed you had the upper hand for the majority of the argument, but I have to say your explanation at 57:00 explains neither of the two questions of “who was Christ praying to” and “why does the son not know when the second coming will arrive”
Read the Bible
@@lulu-qw8xy go read some bitches
I agree
Ask your 1 day old child to explain quantum mechanics.
@@vi683a the Gospel isn't quantum mechanics, actually the truth gospel of Jesus Christ is simpel to onderstand. Spiritual things are onderstand by the holy ghost.
I respect this Mormon Speaker. I pray he accepts the Truth and is saved in Jesus name!
Won’t happen.
Lol. You guys are funny
@@bn2870oh you who lack little faith. God turned saul into paul. God made the heavens and the seas. ALmighty.
@@meganw9380 good for you.
good for all who recognize this*@@bn2870
“Did the father or the son create Lucifer?” They both did, because they’re both God, and God created Lucifer. I used to not be able to stomach Dr. White and other reformed pastors either but I am humbly growing every day because I cannot deny how faithful they are to the Bible. It’s hard to refute when what they believe is right there in scripture. It is refreshing and comforting to learn from such men.
Yup. 👍
Dr White has said inaccurate details about the historical context of the Trinity. He claims the early disciples (the ones before the gospels were written) had a pretty good grasp on it bordering “common sense”, but that’s not the case. Ppl back then had a vague idea on it. Wasn’t until much later when the Trinity received its definition.
Kwaku: "If the Book of Mormon is true, then that proves the Book of Mormon is true."
Hahahahhaahahahah
he is a blasphemer
Lol "Christians" are the same way with the bible and we actually tell people to read book of mormon and see for themselves if it's true. Proud lds. The thing with the bible is that there are tons of different churches that all claim truth from bible. Yet have variety of doctrine.
@@bobbq8380 different church’s claiming the Bible doesn’t invalidate it. That’s like saying there are many different world views that people express mainly in English that contradict each other therefore English is a problem. No there are just different views and verse taken out of context
@@Mel-ye9ec Not trying to invalidate the bible at all. I am invalidating that every church that has the bible is God's one true church or has the "best" or most truth..... Yet any version of the bible clearly states one Lord, one faith, one baptism. So evidently we're all wrong or only one of us is right. What I honestly care about just as much as gaining more lds converts to my faith is ALL faiths working together as one. As much as freaking possible. If not, we are very ingenuine and our claims to being Christian are most certainly invalid no matter what faith we are. I swear Christianity has become the laughing stock of the world and it will very remain so or be so if we keep condemning each other for stupid differences over doctrine. Crap like that keeps making sure Christianity is the most divided thing in the whole world. I feel true Christians should be more focused on teamwork rather than poking at who is right or wrong. Even have the audacity to act like God and say such so and so going to hell or so and so are very "bad" people. Last I checked only God can judge. If anyone here is really Christian or about peace, go and pay it forward or go do good for random strangers. Such as a catholic that could use some handyman work, a Buddhist that needs help with travel, a Muslim that could use a hand with groceries, and an atheist / military vet that could use some reliable resources for better work. I've absolutely have had no doubt I've been blessed randomly by all of the above heaven sent my way by God.
Kwaku makes a point.
Jeff and James respond to said point.
Kwaku: LET ME FINISH!
😂
I love that “Jeff and James” clearly get rattled by a 20 year old making very basic points.
You misspelled interrupt as "respond to"
@@bn2870 exactly how by interrupting them? Very funny. Imagine being not able to make a point do the interruption and saying see they can’t respond.
Kwaku's immaturity just oozes all throughout this entire debate! He just keeps talking over these 2 guys. I'm literally about to pull my hair out just by listening to this immature young man.
Kudos to Jeff and Dr. White!! You both exhibit godly maturity and wisdom! Being an ex Mormon who found Christianity, my Christian faith was strengthened watching this whole thing transpire.
Really great debate. Kwaku kept using the Bible out of context and making poor arguments. He was often defensive and didn't really refute anything that Dr. White and Jeff said.
His rebuts on trinitarian apologetics were pretty darn good, but yeah, his later defenses of mormonism were pretty weak.
Overall he's was way more competent at debating then I would have given him credit for. Maybe a bit too confident, but you could say that about all of them.
How could he? He has a religion that is undefendable.
@@tort2210 mo ml..., mnk
David Chapman
I have no clue what you're trying to say o-o
Tort I found his rebuttals to be severely lacking.
I couldn’t understand why he would use mathematics to tear down the trinity.. He was essentially attempting to apply mathematics to “limit” an infinite being that lives “outside our reality” where such laws do not exist.
Love that Jeff stopped Kwaku from preaching false doctrine.
With his own false doctrine? Lol
@@orangemanbad Whats holding you back?
@@orangemanbad 99% of what Jeff said was just quoting scripture from the Bible... what false doctrine?
@@Tayman47 god is not a man. The Bible says so clearly. Sacrifice is not what god wants for repentance of sin. In fact, sacrifice was only for unintentional sin. God said no one can die and take away the sins of another (then specifies almost as if to predict Jesus’ later myths) saying a father cannot die for the sins of the son nor the son die for the sins of the father. God also says he does not change. There’s a list too long of discrepancies but you get the point. We must turn back to God and away from men and idol worship.
@@orangemanbad repent and trust In Christ!
This was both tough and great to watch 😆
Who won?
The Christians converted to mormonism and the Mormon converted to Christianity
@@qsfoodreview2840 Jesus won. It was Jesus. Which means both of them won. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Go make some money this year, and nobody will care what you believe in.
@@bn2870we do not serve the same Jesus.
@@joelcarter2535 yeah - you both have your own made up versions. Everyone else in the world doesn’t care.
I feel like there is a level of hard heartedness and pride in this young fella that prevents him from listening. He also keeps running around instead of standing his ground and making his claim, backed by scripture and context
"Be quick to listen and slow to speak"
James 1:19
@Anti Anti Mormon tell me your testimony
@Anti Anti Mormon I am a Mormon
If this video was titled "Dr. James White VS Baby Obama".. this video would have went viral LOL! #MadeYouLaugh
@Anti Anti Mormon You never need to protect truth from lies, but you need to protect lies from the truth. Truth destroys lies. So keep your lies protected from everyone because you know somewhere deep down or subconsciously that Mormon theology is built on quick sand and Joseph Smith was a liar and swindled people his whole life. Read a biography on him and his character shines through pretty clearly, he was a huckster.
It’s a very clear sign of insecurity in ones beliefs when a man can’t be quiet to allow another man to speak. Most false religions fall apart when you question there doctrines. Especially when the doctrine feeds the carnal desires of the flesh. i.e. becoming a God, inheriting many virgins in the after life etc...
Apart from that, speaking to false religions exhibits a sense of immature, rude and aggressive behavior.
Just mind blowing.
Maybe that's why they wouldn't allow the kid to speak uninterrupted. He got less than half the time to speak than his opponent in each exchange.
"Most false religions fall apart when you question there doctrine"
What is the doctrine of your religion?😁
Can you spit it out?????😅
Did your mind blew with my simple question?
Christopher David Suryanarayan he’s so unprepared. It’s ridiculous. And he came there knowing what the discussion was about. I don’t know what he thought would happen.
Omer Jamil what? How? They were so patient. Kwaku just made statements and never did anything with them. He makes nailing jello to a walk easy in comparison with his wild wiggling
The Mormon thinks he can become like God....just like Satan did:
Isaiah 14:12-14
How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! You said in your heart, I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.
Satan also tempted Eve that she could become like God by eating the forbidden fruit:
Genesis 3:1-5
Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, Did God actually say, You shall not eat of any tree in the garden? And the woman said to the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said, You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die. But the serpent said to the woman, You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.
Joseph Smith was a child of the devil, a false teacher espousing the same old lie of Satan, that the creature can become the creator.
And yes God confirmed that they did become like us...
A half truth is a whole lie.
So true. Mormons place their faith in Jospeh Smiths testimony and not in the word of God
Cory Schow that’s assuming you knew what half was the truth. The God portion no, your eyes will be opened, yes
It wasn't even a half truth... God stated that they would die in that day... they didn't... Satan said they would be like God... they did... where is the half truth?
God was talking about spiritual death... sin... separation from God. Satan didn't understand this and only understands physical death... or he did and that was the half truth. But they did become like God... that is not deniable.
This is honestly really sad. May the lord soften his heart to the truth.
Luke 24:38-39 behold my hands and my feet that is myself, handle me, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bone as you see me have.
This kids theology reminds of someone that said "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." - Lucifer (Isaiah 14.14)
My thoughts exactly! So true!
That verse pretty much puts a direct finger on the main problem of Mormonism. I'll use that one all the time now.
@Paula Wallace well there is no word fallen angles ,and lucifer most definitely was the king of Babylon but the concept of fallen angles is there. The elohim rebellion and the the nephiliam were born .God divides the nations according to the elohim in heaven who were fallen and deceived the nation s .the very principalities that Paul spoke of the spiritually rules nations .so Lucifer is the king of Babylon but can also be talking about the principality governing the nation. Habakkak says that those nations attribute there power to their gods, well i dont think he was just saying it
@Paula Wallace may man ok the god of wine is not before christ my bro but after lol. Also i said maybe it can hold symbolic worth too .i know that Lucifer was the king of Babylon. Totally agree but u say i know nothing but you dont even understand the divine console .now the nephiliam were a mixed breed of people so yea they were mighty men but not exclusively. There were different breeds coming froming different races .also just because you think Paul and jesus spoke against the law doesn't make dosent mean they are false teachers..i am a Hebrew by blood and a son of isreal by faith . Yeshua nor Paul spoke against the law but against the traditions of men ,you probably were deceived by the lack of discernment of their rhetoric which was design by the Most High to confuse and offend the religious mind ...Paul uphold the law and tought to keep the law and jesus showed how to keep the sabbath correctly.
Read the Hebrew. The (sons of god ) are in Hebrew the (elohim ) these are the ones who are to be cast down on the last day .the one that in Daniel ,the prince of Persia stopped the angel from coming to daniel .this is a elohim, a principality that is in the heavenly places which is cast out of the presence and service of God and his good will .im assuming im talking to someone who atleast knows the old testament and believes in it .
Im not a Christian but a disciple of christ and a keeper of the law just like the 1 century disciples did. Maybe u miss that with bad info and Christian digma ....the word fallen angel isn't there bur the concept is present. Christian dogma is wrong but the so called miseading name (new testament) is real
@Paula Wallace also Paul was from the tribe of Benjamin of the most strict sec of Judaism. At the very least paul is only a pharisee. You can't find a example in the bible that says he tought against moses which i cant throw down .James even himself confronted him about this. Telling him that people say you teach against the law but james said he knows its not true .paul himself say about 3 different times that he doesn't teach against the law ..have you read act like 16 and up?
"The fruit of the Spirit is...patience...self-control." Thank you for showing this fruit, Dr. White and Jeff.
What do you mean? 🤔
If I may, what is your comment about "seeing" the kingdom referring to? Is it the debate itself? Or is it my comment per se?
@Hale Hafa what is the source of true revelation then?
book, chapter, and verse? i would like to check your quotation in the Authorized book to make sure you
quoted it correctly
@@charlessamuellasiste2752
God almighty through JESUS CHRIST by HOLY SPIRIT and ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH and Apostolic tradition and BIBLE in that order
You can see the grace in Jeff and James and that they speak truth with no ego. All you can see with Kwaku is pride, ego, and deceit. Let us pray for him brothers so he comes to the true faith
I will never worship anyone besides YHWH, my lord and my creator and my savior.
We have been asked by him to worship his father, in his name.
Robert Rosskopf yes the Triune God I will worship. Never anyone else
@@infinityApologeticsClips So you believe the Constantine version of God? Three in one, equal, eternal, separate yet the same? I am so ashamed that those bishops bowed and worshiped the murderous freak. I don't care how many jewels were on his purple cloak. Constantine made them all into cold blooded murderers, giving the death penalty to anyone who believed that Jesus was actually the son of God, and they all just went along with it. Spineless jellyfish.
Robert Rosskopf Yahweh is 3 in 1. Father son and spirit.
@@infinityApologeticsClips Assuming, for a second, that there is some truth to that, what information does the statement actually convey? In what way are they 3 in 1?
I love how James White knows what Mormons believe better than he does
you mean White tells Kwaku what he believes... but clearly has no idea what he's talking about.
Right clearly this kid thinks he’s cute. The two men of God see right through him.
@@thepreacher5934L + L
@@thepreacher5934 careful throwing that stone, try not to forget the glass building you reside in.
I LOVE HOW KWAKU SAYS ...WE DONT KNOW HE WAS SPEAKING OF HORSES.....WHEN JOSEPH SMITH AND HIS BROTHER ARE ON HORSES ON STATUES, I BELIEVE JOSEPHS MYTH KNEW WHAT A HORSE WAS ...REPENT AND PLEASE LOOK AT MORMONISM FOR WHAT IT IS ... FALSE
Kwaku saying “I think”, rather than saying “It’s written”, like Jesus did.
"i just don't believe that" "many many people believe xxx" therefore xxx is a true represent?
José Matias are you saying they are comparable? That’s...blasphemy.
@@bcreel83 no, he is saying Kwaku should be referencing scripture like Jesus did rather than stating his personal beliefs
They said that and give their false interpretation
J K yeah I re read that. José, my apologies for being ignorant. Really. I should have taken a second look. And I’m sorry for insulting and being hasty. I was wrong. I apologize .
This was crazy! I love to see the passion each person has for their interpretation and understanding of each topic.
This world needs more DISCUSSION.
Kwaku is bad about interrupting Jeff and James. He has a hard time allowing for a response without interrupting and throwing in his own input. Kwaku really needs to work in conversing with others rather than being rude by snickering while others talk and interrupting.
I don't disagree, but I don't think he was the only one guilty of interrupting. This whole thing was a fiasco.
Yeah I agree with you TheCrushmaster. Both parties interrupted each other throughout...
@@omnitheus5442 It's 2 v 1. I don't blame him.
He was in an unfair position, what do you expect him to do?
I’m an ex-Mormon. Everything Dr. White and Jeff were saying was spot on. Kwaku has made some recent videos attacking anyone ex-Mormon for questioning. There is even some police involvement because of some serious threats over Twitter towards a PHD who was kicked out of the Mormon church. As someone who was raised in it, served a year and a half service mission teaching this stuff in the Philippines, and as someone who google searched simple teachings... the Mormon church is completely cult like. The more I have studied cult methods, the more I’ve been awakened to what the Mormon church did/does to hide its dirty laundry. I’m so grateful to have found my way out. Thank you for hosting people of different faiths, especially Mormonism. Mormons act so sweet and kind until you disagree with their beliefs or prove them wrong. You are always to blame, never their beloved prophets and Book of Mormon/Joseph Smith.
AMEN TO THAT
Amen. I happy to hear that God pulled you out of Mormonism.
It’s good your out in the church coz I am not. I wonder what kind of missionary you are In my country.
*_until you disagree with their beliefs or prove them wrong. You are always to blame, never their beloved prophets and Book of Mormon/Joseph Smith._*
you can't prove anything. And most don't care if you don't believe as we do. I know I don't. All I care about is that what you disagree with IS what we believe, not the anti-Mormon propaganda.
It isn’t anti-Mormon. It’s pro-truth. And by necessity, it is anti-falsehood.
“It’s mathematically impossible”.
But god will make me a GOD of my own planet 😂 😂
🤣🤣🤣 right
@24:20 the Mormon gentleman says Jews believed in many gods, but where is the Scriptural evidence?
Evidence can’t convince the unwilling . Huge shout out to pastor Jeff and Dr.White . These videos are top tier !
what evidence? Pastor Jeff couldn't even explain about spirit when he was asked by kwaku,. and this is what exactly what happened to young Joseph Smith talking to an old Pastor or Preacher... Why to a young boy would appear God not to someone like me who is older and have practice and studied the bible.... Exactly What Dr. White was telling him to listen to me i have more than 30 years in my shoulder studying the bible. He was very authoritative and wasnt humble to what kwaku was saying all he wanted is for the guy to believe and listen to him... Even pastor Jeff keeps on saying to let Dr. White to finish, but when Kwaku's turn to say something and try to defend he just let Dr. White to keep on cutting and not saying anything... I watched the show and i can say that kwaku was able to stand in his ground and made a huge statement about what he believed.. You can tell it wasn't a good place to be with even thought pastor Jeff keeps on saying that im doing this out of respect and Love, but the fact of the matter is they were boiling they just couldnt do it infront of the camera... Over all i thought it was a great debate.
Speak for yourselves
@@Crismoli48 calvinists can never defend their predestination nonsense. the young young dude checkmated them numerous times at 2:11:25
Ha. That's cute - a religious person talking about evidence. Dude, if you really thought evidence was important, you probably wouldn't be religious at all.
@@scrumpymanjack what are you talking about? evidence of what?
Jesus christ is the word, he created everything
he is not the word, the word is love and through love God created everything, and in the same text, we know that the love of God became flesh, the firstborn, who God had made so that it, that was impossible for men could be possible through him.
@@or0chimau he is not the word but the word is love? Makes no sense
@@collynsmith786 why not? john is talking about the nature of God at the begining of that text.
@@or0chimau when he says in the begining was the word?
How do you think God created the universe? He spoke.
Christ created the universe and he brought the very word of God. If the word of God is truth and jesus is truth incarnate then he is the word of God.
You live in a single spoken sentence.
Universe
Uni: single
Verse: Spoken sentence
@@collynsmith786 no, god created the universe, not Jesus, if you are to say that then there is no distintion between jesus and god, and you do not understand why Jesus and god differ, there is universe, becuase there is only one reality, that being god himself.
One of the most frustrating thing when witnessing or debating with other religions is insincerity in the dialogue. Not all but when I here religions such as Muslims, Mormons, JWs, Israelites etc... they don’t cone across sincere. More about using tactics and deception to prove there point. True Christians don’t use deception when they debate. They just speak the truth of the Gospel and are bold in the accuracy of the scriptures.
How can they even have any ground to stand on when they replaced the holy scripture with another book and modified the original text.
Born again Christian apologetics are the most sincere I have seen in a debate format. They don’t play games. They just stick to the Gospel.
This young man is just saying things with no context, biblical meaning or truth just in a manner he thinks sounds smart in his own mind.
Only the power of the Holy Spirit can separate dark from light. Confusion from Clarity..
Wow that could have been interpreted the other way round, that the other side was insincere. Funny how you see things when you're biased.
Apbt 2010 yeah, it “could”. Is that you’re only contribution. You only came to make a comment in mockery? One side is sincere trying to win a souls from hell and one wants to speak from Ego and teach us how we can be a God. Heresy and blasphemy.
@@Christopher25S again you look through biased lenses. Your statement can also be construed as mockery but I guess when you speak you think you are the only person with valid points.
When Jehovah our Lord and Saviour Jesus spoke;
Psalms 82
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
John 10
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
You seem to be referring that Jesus is blaspheming. If you could remove your rosey coloured glasses for 1 sec you might see, who is really contributing and who the real blasphemer is.
Apbt 2010 read the Bible dude. It is very easy to disprove a Mormon. You shouldn’t use biblical context to fit your cults narrative when Mormonism itself is polytheistic while the Bible constantly talks about how there is only one God and that Jesus himself is God in human flesh... Mormonism contradicts the Bible in every single way so you have no right using biblical scriptures to prove your narrative.
@@darkplatinum2362 so Josh now you're saying Jesus is a liar when what He says doesn't fit your cults narrative. Jesus says "Ye are gods" but you and your cult conveniently want dismiss our Lord and Redeemer as a thing of naught. Your cults teachings are so easy to refute.
Does anyone know where I can get a bible like the one Dr White gave as gift?
1:20:00 when Jeff goes in is when the wheels really start to fall off for Kwaku... Kwaku calls scripture "poetic" but doesn't know what scripture he's even referring to. Lots of pride and ego at play here for Kwaku, pray God will open his eyes.
So glad we have evangelical Christians around to Usurp the role of Christ in judging people's hearts. I'm sure He really appreciates that. Thank goodness us evil Mormons have you all to show us the true way.
@@chancebozeman5171 Christians are called to judge doctrine, teaching, and others actions righteously. (Matt 7, John 7:24, 1 Corin 2,5,6,14, 2 Corin 11, 1 John 2:18-20, etc.)
Scripture is the authority, not any one person. Joseph Smith is a false prophet, that's been proven already. I pray you stop following the deception.
@@Tayman47 you were judging his heart by saying he was prideful and egotistical. That's not what Christ teaches. Also, you aren't judging righteously my friend. That's clear by you thinking you know what's in others' hearts. You don't.
Christ didn't teach that scripture was the ultimate authority, He taught that He was the ultimate authority and He gave that authority to His apostles to act in his name. No protestant faith claims that authority, only The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and the Roman Catholics claim that authority.
Also, the bible tells us to pray in private, doesn't it? Are you praying, so I'll see your good works and glorify you? Maybe you are the one who is deceived.
@@chancebozeman5171 1.) I was judging his words/actions/ignorance. Righteous judgment is based upon the revealed truth and Word of God which he distorts and lies about. Just like the false prophet JS did. Also, Christ directly teaches to judge matters of the heart, just look at him reprimanding the scribes and Pharisees for saying they follow the law but in their hearts they don’t. You’re wrong. Let me know if you need specific scripture book/chapter/verse but I urge you to look for it yourself.
2.) maybe you misunderstood or I wasn’t clear so hope this helps: the Bible is the authoritative source for truth. That’s how we know the “true way” which is what my comment was replying to. No Christian claims to have authority or the “true way” we simply follow what The Bible says about the way, which is Jesus “I am the way the truth and the life”
Also nice strawman but telling you that I’m praying you doesn’t mean I prayed in front of you or others for show. I’m not sure you understood what Jesus was saying. Paul told people he prayed for them all the time. Jesus is saying we shouldn’t pray to put on a show (go read the full context of Matthew 6 to see)
@@chancebozeman5171 making sure you saw my comment here on the other thread
This guy is a joker. He’s gotten away with midnight debates with high college kids but he’s way over his head with these two.
We need to remember to love our neighbor as ourselves. Even though with this young kid and what he believes is wrong we should pray for people that are lost...🙏 PS remember the fruit of the Spirit Galatians 5 22 23. You have a blessed day bud.
You’re just upset because he has a coherent world view and you guys have to nitpick the Bible to fit within the view of early church fathers. We believe we can ask God and find out what to be true for ourselves. Kwaku might get firey which I will push back on but he’s right. You guys don’t have a single logical nor coherent answer on how the Book of Mormon came to be. Nor how 2 of the 3 witnesses even when they left and were excommunicated never denied the truth claims of Joseph Smith nor the Book and stayed true to that testimony til they died. But no explain that and then say he’s over his head.
You watched this whole debate? And still think your Mormon Jesus can save? @@cartermode1583
Jeff and James showed great patience with Kwaku. I'm only 55 minutes into this video. It's taking everything for me not to keep watching. They are discussing the Trinity. And Kwaku seems to be intentionally talking in circles and interrupting Jeff and James. And he changes direction. I don't believe he is interested in knowing the Truth. He is missing out in learning from 2 of the best in our time. They explain everything for all to understand. Thank you Mr. Durbin and Mr. White
HEY where can I get one of those Bibles?
Rhetorical barricade after rhetorical barricade. As a former Mormon, I sympathize with Kwaku, the pressure to defend the claims of the church at the expense of the truth and under the false impression that such behavior will earn him some heavenly reward is a nearly crushing burden when you are confronted by sound exegetes of scripture.
You should go back to church.
Kwaku needs our prayers, as his LDS works-based Righteousness is clearly crushing to him. It is such a strong and common heresy, that also exists within many Orthodox Christian Spinoffs, not just the Mormons and other cults and man-made Religious paths.
I love Apologia's various God Glorifying ministries💕☝️🙌.
As I reach out to Mormon's and other's who are proclaiming paganism, atheism, and clearly false doctrines, I'm learning that no amount of apologetics or intelligently presented debate and arguments for the Trinity and other critical doctrines from the WORD of Truth will have any lasting affects on an unbeliever - without them being given ears to hear, eyes to see, and a new heart & spirit, to understand -and without being drawn and enabled to come to Our Great Triune God, through God's Spirit of TRUTH, all discussion will be for naught. So let's keep Kwaku in prayer, especially in light of these awesome books and New Bible that Apologia Channel and Church has given him. Praying that through the Spirit of Truth working in his mind, heart and spirit, he might become as one on Good Soil, and spared from the Evil one and his minions that are so active in Mormon Temples and Teaching.
(Mark 4:20/Luke 8:15 & Col 2:6-10)
Praying he'll become as many of us already have:
"And you also were included in Christ, when you heard the Word of Truth, the Gospel of your Salvation. Having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession-To The Praise of His Glory 🙏🙌☝️🙂." ( Ephesians 1:13-14 )
The veil must be taken away, and one must be Born from Above (born again) before they can See the Kingdom of God ❣️
And it is only by God's Grace and gift of faith in the Truth that we've been given, in His Undeserved Mercy ALONE, that we as His Supernaturally Adopted Children can understand any of these spiritual truths and the Trinity; so we must not be prideful in any way towards Mormons or others who are still LOST.
Romans 8.
John 3:3= In Reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the Truth, no one can see the Kingdom of God unless they are born from above (born again, in many translations)"
The Spirit of Truth must guide us into ALL TRUTH before it is truly possible to understand God as Triune. (John 14:16-17; 25-26; 15:26; 16:13)
2 Corinthians 3:16-17="16 But whenever anyone turns to the LORD, the veil is taken away. Now the LORD is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the LORD is, there is Freedom.
And Vs. 18, for those who are ALREADY in Christ: "And we, who with unveiled faces All reflect the Lord's Glory, are being TRANSFORMED into His Likeness with ever-increasing Glory, which comes from the LORD, who is the Spirit."
Praying for Kwaku, who while still currently a Mormon as of July 2022, through interactions like yours, with all that the Holy Spirit is potentially continuing to do in his life, as the Hound of Heaven Himself continues to pursue him- I believe he may be drawn and enabled to come to the ONLY Way, The TRUTH, and the Life, by the end of 2022, just as many of us have, To God's GLORY Alone 😊.
The calvanists did the same regarding determinism
@@rocketsurgeon1746 No. “Calvinists” didn’t create determinism. It’s very clearly in the book of Romans.
@@DylanGalvinMusic can you please show me where in romans it shows determinism? I have studied it and it is a common misunderstanding by calvanists.
The most telling moment for me was when Kwaku blurted out “You believe in a talking snake” in defense on Mormon lies. He knows he is not a Christian and he knows he doesn’t believe in the Word of God.
@sixscalearmy Mormons believe the bible is scripture. it's part of their 'cannon'.
Their comen thing they say is they only believe in the Bible as far as it's translated correctly. So basically that means if it's a verse that contradicts their religion than they don't believe it.
He believes in the Bible though 😂😂😂😂
Yeah they cherry pick. They do this because they know it contradicts their book haha.
It's tough to argue with someone who doesn't know their own beliefs.
That is pretty manipulative to say the least
he knew exactly what his beliefs are ... and he was arguing against two calvinists by himself.
and every christian knows calvinism is a cult.
@@thesacredseal no ... it was "manipulative," it was just a bulls**t comment.
@@grayman7208 it’s pure manipulation at its most basic form. Trying to convince somebody that they know what you believe better than you do yourself…
@@thesacredseal yep.
and the phony part of the whole thing is that durbin and white are calvinists.
and calvinists believe that christ will not save everyone, just the "elite"
... and of course durbin and white are part of the elite.
Jeff did not follow his own debate rules as moderator
Sometimes you gotta push the debaters when you see them going off mark
I think they called it a debate but I’m sure this was more of a conversation lol
Dr. White did poorly on explain the time and hour and answering kwaku’s objection to Jesus sitting on the throne in Isaiah’s vision. Since God is Spirit by nature and has no form, it is obvious that he is manifesting one within his creation so he can be seen by the host of heaven. And for Jesus no knowing the time or hour, Jesus being the creator of all things is saying it is not given me the authority to disclose to you the knowledge of this event.
The Son knows everything, but doesn’t know this event in a period of time, but he gave revelation on everything that he would do upon his return. The first and the last, he knows the generations that will be alive on the last day. What, he can’t triangulate to determine this specific moment in time, but all of creation is upheld by the power of his word.
There was a lot of over talking by all 3 parties. I think next time pick one specific subject both parties prepare by agreeing on what will be accepted evidence and then present the evidence. Bring a timer and just do a debate or just do timed cross fire aka timed questions and timed answers. There were so many subjects brought up that there was hardly any format and it made everything hard to follow.
Lady Samurai, this is the tactics the Mormons always take. By limiting it the Mormons could claim they wouldn't allow discussion. i do agree on rules of debate, like not interrupting etc.
Lady Samurai not true Jeff played mediator and this young man didn't show respect to an elder who has many yrs of experience in this feild.
Michael H. I have seen alot worst.
@Michael H. Exactly. Jeff is obviously biased with the scholar. He was not an appropriate moderator. They totally tried to roast Kwaku and totally failed.
@@paulgregersen3570 Well said. They clearly set him up. They were nice to him by giving him gifts, then they continued to cut him off. Several times he went to answer their questions by referring to the bible and they would cut him off and distract him with another question. So, we never got to her the young man's biblical answers. This would thwart their claims that members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints don't believe in the bible. They can't have him answering their questions from the bible.
Why are these men so obsessed with tearing down the LDS church? It feels like their religion IS to try to prove the restored gospel wrong. Don't they have better things to do with their time? So sad for them.
Dr. White and Brother Jeff, you both gave a _tremendous_ witness to this young mormon man. I pray for your ministries that you'll be able to continue to witness to the LDS people as they _badly_ are in need of salt and light. I pray that the young man, Elder Kwaku, comes to know the truth of who Almighty God _truly_ *IS* and has _always_ been and will be even from everlasting to everlasting. I had forgotten just how far Mormonism is from Biblical Christianity.... These poor people are truly lost...
I can happily say that when I first saw this video I was Mormon. I have now escaped religion.
Amen Brother 🙌
Bad decision
Amen Mark !!! God bless you on your journey ! 🙌🏽
@@thesacredseal please tell us how finding the TRUE God in the Bible and escaping the false Mormon God, is in any way "a bad decision"? Telling your people that Jesus was "CREATED" and that God WAS NOT ALWAYS A GOD AND WAS HUMAN, or even that WE can become God's and are given our own "planets" with humans who will pray to you, IS CALLED BLASPHEMY
@@360gunner Probably because Mark didn’t find “the TRUE God”, nor did he escape “the false Mormon God.” Why is it bad to believe that The Father was once a man? Is it because “tHe BiBle SaYs So” (even though it doesn’t)? Can you tell me the naturally negative consequences of believing such a thing?
You’re belief is that God created morality, the laws of everything, and dictates it. If that is the case, He is the Father of all evil. You might say “But sin is what we chose, not the Father”, but that argument is negated when your Father created the concept of it and founded it.
Thus, morality is as eternal as God is, and the only religion I know that claims that is the LDS religion.
35:53 and when YHVH was a man like kwaku is proposing. When he live on the habitat of his origin, weren’t there other men like him who rose to his same level of prominence, wouldn’t we have evidence for this view and what’s to spot an usurping of his authority from the other deities who rose with him or what about even before him? Is he the usurper?
This guy can’t ever show proof of anything. Just like the Book of Mormon.
Kevin J he goes all over the place. Interrupts a lot. He’s not listening to what the older men are asking, or the points they are trying to make.
When James white cites the LDS belief that man is exalted, using it as an example to clarify their belief on creation vs. organization, and he was already geared up to defend exaltation and God as a man as church core history belief-not waiting and listening and understanding why James white brought it up in the first place. He’s very hasty. Before the video is even a quarter through, he’s made 3 statements about being able to use scripture to demonstrate what he says are clear facts and can’t be disputed, but never ever actually does it. And it seems he doesn’t know he’s doing it at all-because he’s already defending a new point-that isn’t even being focused on as a whole-he’s super defensive of stuff that they aren’t even on topic yet-making the discussion messy-and the two older guys are so super patient-prepared-and try to help him and give him chances to clarify what he’s saying-
Kwaku makes a lot of broad statements, and never goes back to give them legs at all, instead just jumping to defending something he’s sensitive and seemingly worried about-as if he wants to get there first, kind of thing. Way too excitable, defensive, and unprepared-knowing he was going there. How could he be so wildly under prepared?
@@bcreel83 True. But he understands protestant theology because he was raised protestant until he was 15 😂 To be fair Dr. White was jumping in a lot. I think the difference is that James has something explanatory to say and Kwaku was just making sure he was heard as he raised his objections. In short, he overestimates his opinion and he seemed slightly egotistical. Things went sideways about halfway though this talk for everyone and he did not fair well in this debate. He should have tried to understand rather than constantly argue. An important thing I noticed is HE KEEPS SPEAKING TO HIS LDS AUDIENCE AND EVEN TO CHRISTIAN VIEWERS. He was trying to WIN rather than understand or be understood.
There’s a lot of proof of the Book of Mormon lol
Lol! 👏
J K because he was raised Protestant? Yeah...but it’s pointed out, even by Kwaku himself, that it was a poor education.
That doesn’t mean that all religious education-like CCD-or whatever voluntary religious education is available to you after Mass-is just suddenly void because Kwaku’s experience was totally lacking, and barely Christian-growing up Catholic-we would joke and call Protestants Christian Lite-obviously his experience was anorexic in comparison-if his experience of Christian teachings was what he experienced-and I trust that it is-because it’s their job to explain and demonstrate what’s right and reinforce it-if they failed-that doesn’t just erase and excise and neutralize Christianity-just because he had a really shitty experience.
It doesn’t speak to the whole. And it’s wrong to broad brush and make excuses as to why it’s ok. You know I mean? I’m sure you do.
All in all:
NO. He doesn’t understand “Protestant” , never mind Christian theology.
I feel like there’s this disconnect with people-thinking that Protestants and Catholics and Orthodox somehow believe WILDLY different things, or, laughably, use a different bible version. It’s crazy.
When it comes to core beliefs-about the nature of God-who He says he is-the way to salvation and what that means....you’ve got to understand....
WE ALL agree with each other. Accept whatever nuanced “translation” of the Bible-meaning whether you use KJV or some other modern versed translation-
And I don’t know if you’ve ever been told this--
But they are all compared to the SAME sources (almost 6,000 originals)--and we all agree with each other.
There aren’t, like, different interpretations-in the way that some people have been told-as is there are these wildly crazy different versions that each “sect” of Christianity uses-lol-sorry-it just baffles me--we aren’t blind.
this debate is good. and as a Christian I loved to listen to James White to talk about the trinity
Me too i want to have lunch with Dr. white LOL
Pastor Durbin & Dr. White-- love how you both keep your peace & love through that whole debate! I give you mad props for defending the faith & the definitive authority of scripture, especially with someone unwilling to listen & learn. Hopefully, good seeds were planted! I greatly appreciated hearing what you had to say & would love to know the titles of those books! 😆
@@thepreacher5934 😂😂😂😂Ikr?! "Pastor Anderson".
Debates are not lectures. He was not there to learn anymore than they wanted to learn anything from him.
@@chancebozeman5171
Yes exactly Chance.
I applaud Kwaku. He smiled and remained calm and more at peace than the Dr at least ... throughout.
Until towards the end when Kwaku became more on the offence to put forward his view and stop their bullying.
The other 2 were like you said...
Trying to lecture. One could see them both, especially the good Dr? Becoming angry impatient agitated and even condescending toward Kwaku when Kwaku would disagree ... or offer his own views opinions and beliefs.
Passive aggression so obvious. Especially from the Dr...
Sad really...
Trying to tell Kwaku what he did and didn't understand and even what Kwaku believed. Which is a common tack with evangelicals and LDS Haters.
They know our faith better than we know our own Faith lol...
@@chancebozeman5171
There's a rebuttal I have given to the accusations of the LDS Church being non Christian and non biblical.
I have answered many such accusations with this simple rebuttal that absolutely no one has come back with an answer for....
Not even an attempted answer or rebuttal yet ... and that because?
There is absolutely
NO REBUTTAL, WHATSOEVER...!!!
and it's been almost 2 weeks now after answering so many accusations on Jeff's threads, with this simple Scripture...
I don't think I will ever get a rebuttal because there isn't one lol.
I mean we see all the time how different sects can and do twist and INTERPRET scripture to suit themselves. Yes.
We see and hear it all the time
But this scriptural rebuttal is plain simple TRUTH that cannot be misinterpreted NOR have any but ONE interpretation ... and it totally destroys the validity of any Christian church claiming to preach the True Jesus and or Gospel at all...
This one Scripture validates our church as the One and Only ... TRUE GOSPEL AND CHURCH ON EARTH...
Simple..
Maybe you know the Scripture I'm referring to??? ;-)
Let me know if you'd like to know the verse I speak of...???
Clue??? LOL
It's a New Testament scripture... ;-)
@@chancebozeman5171
PS...
This scriptural rebuttal destroys any argument against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
Validates us as the only Church with All TRUTH!!!
Validates ALL our Doctrines, Interpretation of scripture especially the nature of God and the Godhead...
I'm actually going to share this with Kwaku as well...
As the Bible says...
" by their own words shall they be condemned"
As Joseph our beloved prophet said ...
Christ declared!
" they draw near to me with their mouths and with their lips do honour me but their hearts are far from me!!!
I'm already 1 hour into this video and I have noticed a pattern that I wonder if it will ever come to a completion. There has been at least 3 times Kwaku references a Bible scripture that they say they will cover as a group yet get off on a tangent and never circle back to the scripture in question to have a case be made via the scripture. The level of polite conversation has been established yet the result is that there is missing information that is mentioned and then never revealed. At this point of the video we still have not gone through the Pslam 82. One example of many in this pattern.
Ya, honestly I would chalk it up to going off on multiple differe topics etc. It's like when you watch a video on UA-cam and then all the sudden you find yourself 10 videos away from the original, and on a completely different topic. Just so caught up in.
I will say it seemed the mormon just danced around and couldn't give direct answers. I don't see how he can tell God, that God can't become Jesus and self limit himself....like how is that a problem. He's a literal God in a supernatural realm that doesn't have to follow the rules of the physical. It just baffles me. He doesn't want it to be true because he knows it destroys mormonism.
The "money" takeaway happened at about 2:25...
Kwaku: "No one understands the doctrine of the Trinity."
Dr White: "My kids do."
WOW, maybe they should try and explain it.
How can 3 separate personages be one being? It is a man made concept. The 3 personages are 3 beings and still can be one God.
Jesus himself said to his Father to let them be one even as we are one. Your idea would mean that everyone would become one being like the trinity concept: yeah right, that would cause you more problems.
Grampa Graham Three persons; one in nature. There are certain qualities that are unique to the nature of God (eternal, perfect, omnipresent, all knowing, etc.) Only God the Father, God the Son & God the Holy Spirit meet the God qualities and are one in nature. They are also 3 persons, as in they can talk to each other and refer to self as ‘I’ and the other as ‘you’.
@@professionalprocrastinator8182 You see it is not what you say but what you mean that is the problem. Having one nature is not the problem, as I know that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost have the God nature, however that does not make them one being, which James and Jeff try to push. There are 3 separate personages, who are 3 separate Gods, who are 3 separate beings, who through their Godly nature are one in unity, purpose, communication, deeds etc. It is your definition of oneness and being that is in dispute.
Jeff in another video mentioned 3 men in his audience being 3 separate men and beings but one in nature as being human. They are still 3 separate beings. Also I think it was James who said a rock has being, so is he saying that God is a rock? (As ridiculous in his disrespectful question to Kwaku. "does God have feathers".
two grown men bully a young kid, but that is another story).
In John 20:17 New International Version
Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"
The Father is also Jesus's God, as he is his Father spiritually and literally. This does not detract from Christ's Godhood and glory, but shows the respect Jesus has for his Father.
Before you start having palpitations, you all seem to make a big deal about there is nothing Jesus did not create, well also listen to what Jesus said and place the heavy value on the word NOTHING in this scripture too.
John 5:18-20 Because of this, the Jews tried all the harder to kill Him. Not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.
19 So Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does.
20 The Father loves the Son and shows Him all He does. And to your amazement, He will show Him even greater works than these.…
So when Jesus says he created all things, it was only because his Father had previously shown him what to do.
the Son can do NOTHING by Himself, unless He SEES the Father doing it. For WHATEVER THE FATHER DOES, the Son ALSO DOES.
Berean Study Bible
So when John 1 talks about the beginning, you need to ask yourself, the beginning of what: an absolute beginning or a relative one.
Was it the beginning, of eternity, our universe, time, the earth?
What existed before the beginning? Did light exist? Did matter exist? Did anything other than your God exist?
I have other questions based on your answers?
So I have shown you by the new testament and the mouth of Jesus, that the Father is Jesus's Father and God, that Jesus has done nothing that he hasn't seen the Father already do, which would mean that the Father must have been a spirit and creator also a Saviour at one time who took on a mortal body to save his fellow brothers and sisters, suffered, died and was resurrected with a perfected body and sat at the right hand of his Father, in power and glory.
@@professionalprocrastinator8182 I believe like you that they are of one Godly nature, purpose, unity.
God the Father is literally Jesus’s Father, both have perfect immortal bodies of flesh and bones. That we are all literally his children and like any children we can become like him.
Glad we agree.
Leslie Graham Not sure you can add something different to what someone says and then say you agree. 😆
I'm sorry... but saying the Jews were actually polytheistic is just straight up ignorance and really is just amazing that he was brainwashed to believe that. It was very clear, throughout all of history, that the Jews were different, because they believed in ONE God who always existed, and always will. And that was his first point.
You are technically correct, and I agree with you, but the counterclaim that contemporaneous secular texts strongly imply the hyperbolic nature of scriptural statements was not irrefutably answered by White. And without an irrefutable rebuttal, you reach an argumentative impasse.
White stated that he was very familiar with the Mormon's argument, and if that's the case, he should have come prepared with statements from Jews adamantly denying any doctrinal affirmation of more than one God. White could then follow that up with the fact that the Jews would know more about their religious beliefs than a kid who can't even speak Hebrew. At that point, though the rebuttal isn't technically irrefutable, it stacks the evidence far higher in favor of monotheism.
The closer would be an understanding of philosophy to show that the so-called God of Mormonism is in no way, shape or form like the biblical God. The essence of their God cannot ground contingent being because he is contingent himself. If the kid had any degree of intellectual honesty, that would have brought the curtain down.
@@davidcoleman5860 Realistically, it would've never affected Kwaku's opinion. (Frustratingly like Bart Erhman in that way...) I realize the following is not a deep historical or textual point, but I think it's fair to assume a little bit of bad faith on Kwaku, given that it's true, and at 90% of it is widely known by English speakers:
The world has three Abrahamic religions, which all stem from the God of Abraham (allegedly). They are also commonly called the "three major monotheistic religions." Is the LDS church really saying that all of Judaism, all of Christendom (except the LDS, if they consider themselves under the umbrella), and all of Islam are either wrong about the nature of their own religions, or are somehow afraid to say they're not monotheists? (Ironically, the only one you could construe as afraid would be Islam, but more specifically, Muhammad himself. He _repudiated_ his own polytheistic revelations as being "Satanic verses," in part because the Jews and Christians were calling out that Muhammad's alleged god could not be their God, because their God is the _only_ God.)
@@jacksyoutubechannel4045 Good points, Jack. I would only say in reply that whether or not Kwaku would be convinced is secondary to a complete answer that I feel is required in a debate like this. Perhaps White was unprepared for a specific argument along that line and was winging it. In any event, a thorough reply would serve to convince fence sitters and honest inquirers of the truth of monotheism regardless what Kwaku personally does with it.
@@davidcoleman5860 I wonder a little if having to moderate (himself and/or his approach, not the conversation) in light of _Kwaku's_ approach affected his line of argumentation. Especially Kwaku wanting yes/no answers, verse by verse. I've heard James White explain Christian monotheism _to Mormons_ many times before, so I know it's in his head somewhere, but the answer I've known him to give _is_ dependent on looking at several verses and discussing what they must mean in light of each other, since they can't be interpreted to contradict one another.
I agree that it's important to get a clarification out, even if it's just for the audience, though. Genuinely, it may have been wise to say, "We just want to pause and explain to our audience..." and direct a summary or clarification directly to the audience on occasion.
That simply isn’t true. A cursory glance through the Old Testament reveals that Israelites were constantly “straying” and worshipping other gods. They didn’t disbelieve in the existence of other gods - they just preferred their own, something that scholars call ‘monolatry’ as opposed to monotheism, although that began to change during the Babylonian exile.
Mathematically impossible... He just limited God...
On multiple occasions, Kwaku brought math into the conversation, stating things couldn't be as White/Durbin were explaining since they were mathematically impossible. By doing so, he is conveying his belief that mathematics is beyond God, who is limited within the confines of our mathematical understandings. I hate to tell him, but my God created math and is not limited to anything. It's par for the course though with Mormon theology. "God didn't create everything from nothing". "God was once a man who worshipped another God before Him." "I can become a god myself." Those beliefs putting God in a box are quite dangerous.
Thanks, Gino! Have a great day, buddy!
So can God make 1+1+1=1
Most Christians don’t understand the trinity as it was written in the council of Nicea. The trinity is THREE persons who are distinct people who are united in every way from purpose, might, mission, love, etc. To us we can conceive them as being one God but most Christians go straight Sabellianism/modalism and believe God is this conjoined triplet.
The difference is Mormons emphasis the three distinct persons. Which is more consistent with the scriptures then the mainstream view on the trinity.
1x1x1=1. Mathematically possible
2:26:56 perfectly explains why I so appreciate this interview.
Oh and btw, I’ve never seen someone exude that amount of pride in any debate on any topic ever. Period. My goodness he needs a piece of humble pie
All 3 of them do, it’s kinda sad
Which one?
@@bn2870 the Mormon
@@4hisglory926 lol 😂- after watching a middle-aged man talk over a 20 year old and say let me “give you a ‘humble’ nudge.” Ain’t humble when you have to call it “humble” bro. And as an outsider, he looks like a complete jackass pontificating about the “science” of some mythical story that never happened 😂. Get a real job.
I wonder how God actually feels watching his children literally rage and fight over Him. I can't believe He supports it
I have to watch this in bursts, because i get frustrated at Kwaku.
Because he is not genuine!
I’ve had to pause it and back more than twice. I just started and I’m really trying.
I think Kwaku is frustrated with Kwaku
Yes! Haha you said it 👏
go on hate on a brother
I'm honestly impressed that this young man actually came down to have discussion. So many Mormons don't like to engage in argument.
Because they are specifically told not to
@@blacksabbathmatters that's because argument in it's core definition is contentious and contention isn't the Devil.
So yeah, we try not to be contentious.
It's a good thing this guy isn't arguing but rather, he's trying to have a discussion while the other two are trying to make it contentious .
@@swarlesbarkely2449 Would be cool to see more Kwaku's out there defending the Restored Gospel. Also shout out the missionaries!
@@someone-cf1xe
The Gospel didn't need to be restored. Groups such as the Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Churches of Christ, etc. make this silly claim in order to make people believe they are in a special group that contains all of the truth of God. 2 Timothy 4:3 states the following:
"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."
This passage truly sums up why people belong to these silly groups who all suffer from the disease known as "The True Church Syndrome."
@@swarlesbarkely2449 Scripture calls us to "contend for the faith" (Jude 3). So yes, when it comes to defending the faith, we must be contentious if need be, out of love. The Mormon dude was being more than contentious, however, he was being arrogant, prideful, rude, and unwilling to listen. You don't have to agree with or like Drurbin and White, but at least realize that the Mormon dude was a very, very bad representative for your beliefs.