I Built More Infestors Than I Have IQ - Ling Infestor to GM *NEW* Series
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- Опубліковано 30 січ 2024
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if you steal a worker and build stuff you should be able to use any unit from that race
I think that should be a different challenge honestly. Build w/e you want for defense but you have to try and win with the enemies units. Something like that.
100%! That is one of the greatest parts of playing mass infesters
Agree with this 💯…huge difficulty level involved
It was like this in SC 1
Be like Lowko and make Zerg Tactical Nukes? Of course, "Zerglot" is also an achievement.
For a challenge where the main tech unit is the infestor I think it's perfectly legit to build anything you want from the other races if you can actually make it happen.
I doubt it will be a thing at higher MMR.
@@leafykille IF anyone can though... it's def. Thermy!
@@leafykilleharstem did it with his zerg which a bit above 5k.
20:16 this changeling block is brilliant! Haha. I never thought it would work. I feel like your opponent is going to watch this and just get super embarrassed. But the tiny mistake is so relatable.
Yeah it is! I didn't even realize it haha
Id say queens are ok in any quantity. Like you said, they’re like an orbital for zerg, but with a little bit of mobile planetary mixed in. They’re good defence tools, good macro tools and your only real anti air.
Make 50 of them if you want, it’s a terrible strat anyway.
Agreed. I would just restrict them to "defensive use only", whatever you want that to mean.
get enough queens to spread creep once?
edit: nvm. you already doing it. then as much as you want. commented before seeing the episode in full
Mass queen is fair game as long as they're only used for defense imo.
@@joelv4495 Honestly I’d throw em in as attackers too. Queens are not a good combat unit, they a mid AA but very good supportive tools. Zerg is just super gimped without queens and they’re already super gimped aggression wise with the off creep speed and no transfuse off creep.
@@joelv4495 Yeah. If they're defensive use only, then it's not cheating to make lots of them any more than it is to build lots of missile turrets.
It was me - I was just impressed by your micro. Hence the wow. Changeling block was nice - didn't even realize they were there!
That changeling block is honestly one of the best things I think that I have ever seen in SC2. Uthermal has the biggest brain plays
1:43 I would love to see that! Protoss is doable, but terran? If someone can make it work is you!
28:36 You should be allowed to train enemy units, it's totally in the spirit of the challenge! And I wouldn't say it makes thing easier, rather more spectacular, challenging and epic
? Harstem already did it. And yes you have to constantly neural the scv
Can.t believe im still so entertained by these videos in 2024. Im up for Uthermal SC series continuing till the day i die :))
Dont jump off a bridge when sc3 drops 😂
Of course you are, Marc is AWESOME! :D
Because Marc = Fun , he could create cooking tutorials and anyways it would be entertaining.
“OMG, look at this cheese” 🍕
@@charliem3108 rotfl
it all start and ends with cheese.
The main thing I want to see in this challenge is you connecting your bases with creep lol. It breaks my little zerg heart every time one of your queens slow waddles between your main and nat.
I've always wanted to see a creep challenge. Namely, no matter what happens, your ultimate goal is to spread creep over the entire map as fast as possible. I'm talking from corner to corner. Now, obviously, if your opponent is also Zerg, this is no longer a challenge, but it might still be interesting.
Its still definitely a challenge. Because you have to devote a lot of resources, mental and minerals, that are benefiting your opponent just as much as you. Most zerg games dont involve spreading creep farther than your own bases
maybe a (Creep only challenge) only allowed to walk on creep challenge, including the creep you get from overlords and creep tumors.
Hopefully it will get Uthermal into the habit of spreading creep all the time
Creep rushing can be effective, though usually in combination with a more damaging strat, Nydus, etc.
You can force scans, delay expansion, deny static, etc., and generally keep better track of your opponent.
Oddly, the last can be even more effective in ZvZ, as overlapping creep still requires detection to counter, and not always anticipated.
Marc: "The first game was rough, definitely going to need to make double evos before infestors"
Next game: *proceeds to make 100 infestors before any upgrades 😂*
All units from the other race that you build out post-neural is fair game imo. It’s all an extension of your infestor’s abilities.
Rules should allow you to be able to build any unit if it is not a Zerg unit; so you can try to steal a worker and make there units.
Those changelings were incredible. 😂
Those changelings were *chefs kiss*
Building more than 200 infestors is a real 200+ IQ strat
P.S.
For queens, I would say either have 6 or 1 per Hatch, or have as many as needed, but never use them for attack.
Personally I think as many queens as you like, I would even be cool with them on the attack so you can actually shoot up and hit air :P
As far as Ultras go, you need something in the late game or the series will just become "Can I rush them before they get too big to fail?" and then its another cheese series (which I do love, but I got the feeling you wanted this to be different?)
So it's less catchy a name but Infest, Ling, Ultra, Queen to GM works for me lol
Thx marc for some of the most jank zerg play I've ever seen. Keep up the good work.
18:20 - "Now he's kind of playing into my hands!"
Narrator: "He wasn't."
I think being able to build any unit from the enemy race with infester counts, I mean technically by mind controlling enemy units, you are breaking the challenge. Since you are trying to win with units outside of you're set challenge. If its fair to win the challenge via mind controlling enemy units, it should also be fair if you build them through the same process (stealing wandering workers).
Even more to that point, I think it would be fun to see the challenge morph into "Steal terran and protoss units for a hybrid army win" with a more pure win with infestors/lings/ultras/queens vs other zergs. Its hard enough to get a enemy worker back to your base through mind control, so really it just adds even more of a challenge, especially against GMs who probably are less likely to send mid to late game probes out to be gotten.
21:55 Noo, the forgotten ling will never be remembered.
Let's go!! I was hoping for this series so bad, glad to see it happen.
Rushing the ling upgrades all the way +drops seems like one idea that might work, especially earlier on. Also I think pretty much everyone wants to see an attempt at worker neural, might be easier to pull off with toss as you said. Bonus points for neural into fake cannon rush xD
THANK YOU UThermal, for keeping us entertained with the best SC content in the world. Your fans love you. Your rivals are salty. The world is your playground!
1. Stealing a worker and making your own stuff from that worker 100% should be legal because that came from your infesters ability.
2. That block with your changelings on the ramp was the coolest play I've ever seen!
First of all, fantastic new series, Marc ;). If we want ultras yes or no, idk, but I don't think that's what the 2nd game showed us there. I think it showed us that Marc can keep people occupied with the lings while building up at home. If instead of mass mass infestor we go mass economy and upgrades and some infestors, even building spine/spore fields over time, then we could forever defend and wear the opponent down. I believe that the eventual doom push is stoppable if there are enough bases to trade and better use of spine spore zones defended by some ling infestor. If infestors are good enough remains to be seen, but the game, if anything, demonstrated the potential of this style, through its base trade capability and infestor defence concept, which I believe just needs some minor adjustment. As Marc do, I'm sure we will get to see this perfected and am excited for what else his brain will birth for us. Add ultras to that... I think we may have another banger boys and girls!
You'll need queen drops or nydus at some point. Anti Air is very weak.
Since you have to have overminds add CONTAMINATE
It's insane how good the changeling block was!!
DUDE, that last game...
That Protoss was terrified of you. :D
Never forget: We love when you win, cool. But when you lose the game, you are still great and fun and awesome, so even if you lost all your games... it wouldn't matter. :D
Damn Marc! Almost 125k subs! I think I was around when you had 1.5k subs. So happy for your success! Wish you good health and killer games!
Imagine he dips into GiantGrantSubs who mostly care about coop and campaign stuff. Wish he'd do at least 1 coop game per 2 months
With his wholesome attitude and how he treats opponents who beat him, this man deserves everything great which comes to him!! :)
You could possibly do a "timed release" of new units.... So ling / infestor up until 10 min, then you can produce ultras, pretend they're all locked in cages and can't get out until 10:00 or 15:00. That would allow you to play with ling / infestor, but allow for a hard transition later.
That changling block was the most cruel but hilarious thing I've seen in Starcraft.
Verry enjoyable episode, looking foward for this challenge
The title absolutely cracked me up. Looking forward to this series!
I'd love to see a queen, swarm host challenge where you use nidus and hit and run but also create strong points at your nidus locations with spines/spores. Basically pop a nidus get a few tumors down and throw down some static defense attack with your swarms and jump to the next strong point. Could use pukelords to help with the creep placement as well. I feel like using static defense with nidus could make it really gross to have to deal with especially with hit and run swarm hosts and queens regening everything.
I feel like 2 queens per base seems fair
Atleast
You are most certainly allowed to neural a probe to build protoss units. Heck, do it to a terran. You get bonus points if you do it to a zerg.
Neuraling another race's worker and building units is absolutely within the spirit of the challenge. We want to see a multi race army!
Uthermal actually spreading creep?! Albeit at a high diamond/low masters pace, but a significant improvement!
Probably the series I've been most hyped for in a while, really feels like uncharted territory with a lot of potential to use it in different ways
My thoughts. 1 : as many queens as you want but for base def and creep only. 2 i want to see dropper lords dropping infestors in mineral line and fungalling
Marc, you did not add this first episode to the Ling/Infestor playlist! It's no problem, I was able to find it still, but it might still be good to add for other viewers :)
That was fun, thanks Marc!
Hi Uthermal (Marc) - You should rush nydus worms at every hatch and try not to lose any drones to harass, just run them into a nydus until the attacking units are countered ...
This is awesome! With the observers, I wonder if you could just neural them to have your opponent loose their vision? You are the pro but thats what came to mind :)
20:15 This is Brilliant!!! XD
Rules suggestion if you want to go hard: rather than placing a limit on the number of queens, just say "Defensive queens only" which basically means you can't attack with them. That keeps them in the spirit of the "zerg orbital."
I love the challenge idea, but that first loss against a diamond player tells me you YOLO'd it a bit without giving it much thought. So here are some pointers:
- For one, you said you didn't want to be caught in the middle of nowhere when he attacks you. Spread creep - it's free scouting. Another solution would be to just have lings around the map. Burrowing them should help a bit with your liberal use of F2.
- Think about how neural works. The closest infestor to the targeted unit that has enough energy fires off its neural first. It means that if you target a unit in the middle/back, the units at the front will kill the first neuraling infestors almost immediately, if not even before they get to use the ability. That's why you *need* a meat shield between the enemy and your infestors in a direct army vs army confrontation. You made so many infestors that you didn't have any lings, and all neurals in the final battle lasted maybe 2-3 seconds before the infestors died. In that fight, you should've targeted the zealots/archons with the neurals first (if you don't have a meat shield, take one from your opponent), then instead of shooting at your infestors, the remaining enemy army would get rid of the zealots for you (or the zealots would get rid of everything else on the ground). I think you even had more infestors than he had units in his entire army, so you'd have infestors left over for voidrays as well. Don't tunnel vision towards the most expensive units, I think it might be better to go for the frontal ones (whatever they may be) more often than not. Ideally though, you just neural the army from the back while he's killing the lings/your base.
- Queens. They would've been a good meat shield for the infestors while being decent against voidrays as well. More queens should = more creep spread. You should be allowed to have more than 6 total/1 per hatch, but not allowed to use them offensively. I'd say no more than 10 or (later on) the number of infestors, whichever is greater.
- General strategy: as you noticed yourself, you were behind on eco in that second game. As a zerg. Playing lings. You had SO much money invested in infestors that did almost nothing until the very end. You wanted your opponent to move out, but you kept him at home by constantly harassing. You kept your opponent at home, yet you didn't expand like crazy behind that. You were afraid to move out in case your opponent attacked you, yet you didn't scout (spread creep). You played a long game with a lot of gas mining, yet after 22 minutes your main damage unit had still only 1-1 upgrades. Your moment-to-moment gameplay was, as usual, outstanding (up until that last battle), but in everything else you worked against yourself. I'd imagine your main strategy should be flooding the opponent with lings (drops or otherwise), and using infestors only as support to counter things the lings can't deal with at all, and for a proper flood you need eco. Be greedy, you should have the mobility.
-Useful tactics. There are a few I can think of that I've not seen from you. One, if you don't feel like spreading creep the normal way, but still want to scout with it, put a queen in a dropperlord, drop her across the map, spread creep using the dropperlord and plant a creep tumor there. Do that 2 to 4 times and you have full vision around your opponent. Also slows down the enemy from taking extra bases, and you'll know when they try. Another one - use that creep to place nydus worms for quick travel. You were afraid of having your base attacked while in the middle of the map, nydus worms fix that. You should have extreme mobility, total map knowledge and map control. Single nydus too slow? Double or triple up. Also, have an infestor or 2 with your ling drops if possible - fungal the workers, so lings can kill them easier and faster, fungal the army so it's harder for them to chase after the lings/dropperlords when you escape. And a small reminder, because I've not seen you use it - infestors actually have 3 abilities! If you're limiting yourself to using only 2 units, you should at least use their full potential.
With that said, I don't think adding ultras would benefit the challenge. Roaches instead of lings on the other hand, both with the ability to move while burrowed, and roaches making for a better meat shield... But it would probably be better to stick with lings for now. There's a lot you can still improve on, so it'll be interesting to watch how far you can take this combination before trying to change the challenge.
I wonder if you would wanna try to combine this with the Noah's Arc. I.e. you can have any amount of lings/infestors and a reasonable number of queens, but also any other combat unit, up to 2 of each kind. So, 2 ultras, 2 vipers, 2 lurkers, 2 swarm hosts etc.
And you should definitely be allowed to build your opponent's units in any quantities if you manage to capture a worker. I mean, it's one of the coolest things that can happen in sc2, it just has to be allowed in a mass-infestor challenge.
I haven't finished watching the video yet but wanna say: I love crackling, infestor, hydra. Obviously for your challenge its gotta be just ling infestor and queen but with the limited anti air I dont think you should limit your queens to 6. I think 10 max would be good cuz then you can actually deal with mass air but still have to utilize spores and try to drag the ships into them with neural and stuff. Good luck!
When you mass neural, the ones doing the neural are the infestors in front, and they are the first to die, so it never works. You need to either neural ALL the units closer to your infestors and wall off the other units in the back, which is only possible if you're up against slow fat units like thors or archons, without smaller units that can fit between them (i.e. zealots/marines), or snipe the detection. For that second game in particular, neural the observers and it's gg.
PLEASE DO THIS:
Take control of a probe/scv and make the command center, make more scvs/probes and then make an hybid army and win
OR completely turn into a protoss/ terran player
For queens I consider them more of a utility unit like overlords than a combat unit so I say build as much as you want as long as you are not using them in place of a real army.
Would lean heavily on No for Ultras as one thing I like with these challenges is improving and how bar you can push a limited set of tools.
What about dropping a spire to build like 2-3 corruptors and create one unit group with them and 1-2 overseers, just to snipe the observers instantly, then burrow infestors and neural half of units when opponent commits to attack? That would be so damn strategic :)
Future zerg series
(Creep only challenge) only allowed to walk on creep challenge, including the creep you get from overlords and creep tumors.
Hopefully it will get Uthermal into the habit of spreading creep all the time
I absolutely love your content, uThermal. It's insane how good you are at keeping things entertaining and engaging. You are in a league of your own, it's wild.
I think that if you want to make ultras, maybe you do a different challenge later where you put ultras in dropper lords and bring infestors. Maybe for that challenge your allowed a small amount of lings for early game defense. For this challenge I think make 1 queen per hatchery and 2 per lair/hive, if you really want to do math. It could be interesting to make a strategy around building extra of certain buildings to allow more of those units. That seems like you could make a challenge series of of that idea on its own.
I'm stuck between wanting you to spread no creep and wanting you to become amazing at spreading lots of creep. Haha. Both would be equally fun to watch
i find him making no creep is relatable content because im always like ooh yeah creep i forgot creep is a thing
I think with this amount of infestors you need some unit to tank the opp army, basically infestors works in the back stage while the units tanking are buying time for neural to be cost/efficiency
For Ultralisks you could do a limitation such as you can only time them to pop around the time 2/2 or even 3/3 upgrades finish so they're a true late game unit
Those changelings, man, freking hilarious.
I'm glad you decided to use the base defences, zerg base defences are really strong, can reposition and cost no supply. Used right they are your end game units!
If you steal a worker and build stuff, you should be able to build only units related to a previous challenge !! 😂
As a zerg player I love any zerg challenge! My vote is no limit on how many queens you make. Suggestion for challenges would be lurker plays but I know its really a late game unit so maybe some early burrow ling shenanigans.
the title made me laugh :) ggs and gl with the challenge
Now I want a changeling challenge where you block ramps and retreats from your opponnents and roll over them with banelings.
Conclusion: normal zerg got nerfed. Uthermal Zerg got buffed in the last patch.
Having a whole base of the other players race would be incredible!
Watching this a second time. Hate seeing you lose, Marc, but love this series.
Hopefully we see some SCV + probe neurals! 🙏🏽🙏🏽
cant you droplord an infestor in his mineral line , kidnap a SCV or probe > bring back with the droplord > change race mid match?
doesn't work like that
Nydus is so cool! You talked about not been able to expand, but nydus? Conecting bases? Anyway awsome vids and content!
That business with the changelings was absolutely disgusting XD
Any amount of queens but you can only use them defensively. Cheers Marc.
I think the queens just can't leave your side of the map; make as many as you like. :)
27:10 two observers show up right in the vision of the overseer.
28:16 If he DOES have detection
28:53 He does have detection! It's a disaster!
It's nice to know that Marc sometimes makes mistakes like I do, but he still recovers so much better than I ever can.
Haven't played sc2 since WOL and I still watch these videos.
Best series of all! ❤❤❤ Finally some Zerg love ❤😊
This challenge has to be one of the best. I can already hear the salt!
doesn't matter number of queens as long as the strategy revolves around ling-infestor...you can make 9 (or whatever) and then sacrifice some of them during combat because suplply is needed for the core army anyway
That hatch placement @18:51
I've been waiting for the infestor's and you creating Skytoss to end the game :D
Ling infestor? That takes me back to the glorious days of Serral wrecking every tournament.
This has been your best creep spread yet
@Uthermal your queen count should be uncapped for the following reasons.
1. You don't spread creep. (in your own base)
2. You don't macro 4-5 bases sub 10 minutes.
3. Queens will still be important for air heavy compositions/air harassment
4. You will probably find some filthy queen walk or transfusing strat for 20-40 infestors with 10 spines.
5. If queens are like orbitals you using them would be like never scanning and periodically forgetting to drop mules.
6. If you wanted to push this challenge opening up into a heavy macro build so you can get 3/3 lings, neural, burrow, adrenal, nydus, dropper lords etc I think you should be allowed to do that.
it will be interesting if you make a video or series with maps from TL map contest 19. I so PROs on those maps but it'll be interesting if you give your reaction for example about new healing zone structure. Love your videos ❤
I am looking forward to the more quirky things with zerg marc but to be honest I'd be more hyped for a roach/ravager/infestor challenge. Only because then your infestors would get some decent value with roaches tanking and the bile/fungal combo can be disgustingly efficient.
Infestor drops into worker lines could be devastating. 😂
New zerg-challenge for you: You are only allowed to kill enemy units and buildings on creep. Should help to learn fast spreading as well 😊
The trick with changelings its awesome 🎉😂❤
queens really are an essential zerg unit so limiting yourself too much on them would honestly compromise your gameplay. I think as long as you know you aren't just doing mass queen or marching queens to the enemy base is still in the spirit of the challenge
This is going to be sweet! As for queens, I guess never attacking the opponent's base with queens would stay within the spirit of the challenge almost regardless of numbers.
That game of not attacking was hilarious
One thing I would encourage is more upgrades! 😀 You get to 1 1 and then typically stop despite having the funds to get more.
I watched game of serral and clem one day and thought serral could use more burrowed plays. Also as a Zerg player I think banelings should have ability to turn auto triggered explosions when someone steps on them while they a burrowed.
About queens: 1 per hatch is too few, so is 6 especially if you're playing macro game. I'd say it doesn't matter how many queens you build as long as they're somewhere next to your hatch/going between your hatches. Maybe something like [1 per hatch + 3] or [2 per hatch] could be a decent compromise since some are still in favor of restricting number of queens. My biggest worry is that either your antiair would suck or building too many spores would put you too far behind.
Enough queens to satisfy base supplementation (1 per hatch, plus 1-2 for spreading creep; yes that was said with a chuckle) seems fair.
I see title and start wondering how he build 150 infestors
I must admit that I looked up that the IQ definition for being mentally retarded is 70. (Sorry :) )
Hey Uthermal! How about adding the ability to add vipers to the units you could build since air should be really tricky for this build? After all, what is a viper if but an infester with wings?
Never undrestood why Archons are not immune to mind control being the ultimate phychic unit.
I think banelings are techniquely zerglings so they should be allowed too.
Fast expansion to the Rich Gas base might be the play more often for the purposes of this build
Needed to split investors then surround from back and sides I reckon cos you can't fight head on with them. And maybe neural the observers... Was fun to watch