How do elite skiers get forward in the moguls?

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  • Опубліковано 26 жов 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 86

  • @gregorydavid5894
    @gregorydavid5894 4 роки тому +15

    Thanks Tom! I was a late starter and I am 67 now, so the athleticism of these guys is well beyond me, but to have the movement broken down into basic components like this has given me some clarity which will really help my technique. I ski bumps a lot now because I realized it's the final piece of the puzzle for skiing very well in all conditions. I started skiing the high line and midpoints of the bumps to slow them down, the zipper line has been out of reach except on the gentlest line, but since I have been focusing pulling my shins back ( 2 seasons) I have progressed rapidly and am able to ski the zipper line more. Seeing the way the torso moves in relation to the pull back is really useful! By the way Tom, I would collapse on the floor doing what you are doing because my knee joints, ligaments and muscle are no longer capable of that, but I can still ski bumps pretty well, so for aging skiers - there is hope for skiing elegantly in all conditions. It has definitely helped me develop the punchy quick turns that are needed to ski straight down the fall line in steep trees in pow and the chop.

    • @koitaki
      @koitaki 4 роки тому

      Good points Gregory, and yeah, you can generally make do with what you got.
      (eg. Django Reinhardt & his two fingers on the guitar).

    • @utahmogul
      @utahmogul 8 місяців тому

      It's important to not over think it. Important to subconsciously know what is going on but when it comes to actual bump skiing. Be light and loose and let the bump come to you. The mogul does most the work.

  • @MadelnMachines
    @MadelnMachines 3 роки тому +5

    This is fascinating. Trainers sometimes tell me to get forward in the bumps but they don't say how. This is how! I've always wondered how you force the ski tips down like that. Thanks

  • @쉐틀
    @쉐틀 3 роки тому +2

    Great brake down at the kitchen. Thank you

  • @jamies1196
    @jamies1196 5 років тому +4

    As always great breakdown on the biomechanics and body position analysis. When I teach bump skiing I use the dolphin turn to simulate this movement and a teeter-totter movement of pushing down with the toes to get the tips driving down while moving the hips forward. I like your side view showing the feet and hip action to get forward and recentre at the tipping point. Of course timing these moves is the tricky part.

  • @alexanderlin2022
    @alexanderlin2022 Місяць тому

    Great brake down for the movement, thank you so much!!

  • @dtna
    @dtna 2 роки тому +1

    This makes perfect sense to me. People used to tell me to not sit back, get your feet forward! And never told me how. I thought that they meant to just keep my weight on the tongues of my boots. I started skiing in '72, loved the bumps but always started to blow out in steep moguls. Thank you.

  • @johnmoore1609
    @johnmoore1609 4 роки тому +4

    Just came across your stuff very recently and I have to say I think you're really onto something with your focus on fine-tuning body position, something which doesn't seem to be given nearly enough thought in most ski instruction. As a wannabe good skier, unless you know where your centre of gravity is and how to effectively move it to where it needs to be, you're fighting a losing battle before you even get onto the other niceties of ski instruction. Great use of video analysis, too.

  • @CharlieH_design
    @CharlieH_design 5 років тому +3

    Great analysis! Seems like you could practice on a bosu ball which would give you a rolling action of going over the mogal.

  • @kambizmerati1119
    @kambizmerati1119 2 роки тому

    One of the most awesome mogul analytics I ve ever watched.

  • @gu5907
    @gu5907 5 років тому +4

    The movement of the leg is what we do in carving for fore-aft balance as well, but the hips don't have to be as aggressively thrust forward to get quick snow contact again because the impact of constant terrain at pressure release is less for carving than bumps, but the ankle and leg movement to get the skis under the hips/center of mass is exactly the same.

    • @jaycereed9928
      @jaycereed9928 3 роки тому

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      I somehow lost the password. I would appreciate any help you can give me.

    • @pauljamir6025
      @pauljamir6025 3 роки тому

      @Jayce Reed Instablaster =)

    • @jaycereed9928
      @jaycereed9928 3 роки тому

      @Paul Jamir Thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site through google and Im trying it out now.
      I see it takes a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.

    • @jaycereed9928
      @jaycereed9928 3 роки тому

      @Paul Jamir It did the trick and I finally got access to my account again. I'm so happy!
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    • @pauljamir6025
      @pauljamir6025 3 роки тому

      @Jayce Reed Happy to help :D

  • @dennisgunn468
    @dennisgunn468 2 роки тому

    Lovely really helpful perspective. I am 62 and really only started working on mogul technique methodically about 3 years ago. I have made a lot of progress since then but the athleticism of these guys is not likely in the cards for me still I think this is very informative.

  • @kevinray3240
    @kevinray3240 8 місяців тому

    Nice interpretation and breakdown, and good kitchen exercises.

  • @elliot3748
    @elliot3748 4 роки тому +4

    Hips forward is one way of looking at it. I prefer to think of it as pulling your feet back underneath you. Great Vid

  • @matthewburnford8395
    @matthewburnford8395 2 роки тому

    This is a super helpful video Tom and a really excellent teaching aid. Ski instructors describe actions using words but words on their own are often just words - you need to assign words to visual actions. You have captured that really well and helped crystallise a really clear understating of what is actually going on.

  • @eagsalazar
    @eagsalazar 3 роки тому +1

    Their feet do of course move back under their butts during extension, and thinking about doing that might be useful when initially learning to ski moguls, but there is a huge element you aren't mentioning. At higher speeds on bigger, more rutty moguls with steep faces and backs, pulling your feedback back, pressing your hips forward, and pushing down with the bridge of the foot is way too slow and the timing is virtually impossible. You will inevitably either be late and you won't have sufficient tip pressure to be fluid and carve down the back of the bump or you will be early and you will push yourself way into the backseat. Even with perfect timing, at speed you simply can't do those manual movement fast enough to stay glued to the back of the moguls. Japanese mogul skiers really embraced this in the past and it wasn't consistent and results in herky-jerky vs fluid skiing.
    The key thing is to maintain high hips and forward pressure going *into* the top face of the moguls and maintain body position while you absorb through the mogul. This will push your feet back during absorption, flex your tips and flex your boots. You are right that boots are stiff, that is good, because the forces generated in that moment are extreme and are enough to flex your skis and boots, then when you crest you don't pull back and manually drop your tips, the energy stored in your flexed tips and boots will *explode* down the backside of the moguls. You can never ski with that speed or fluidity any other way. If you are trying to have your skis glued to the back of the moguls this is how the great ones do it (Bilodeu, Lahtella, Brassard, etc).
    The video you did with SIA where you discussed the "virtual mogul" (that's not actually the right term I think) was very illustrative here. The end of the turn happens at the face of the mogul, the transition at the crest, and the start on the backside. Similar to the flats, dynamic and fluid mogul skiing is, in part, about taking the energy stored in the previous turn and effectively using that for a strong initiation of the next turn. In moguls this opportunity is even larger because there really is a mogul allowing you to flex and store even more energy while turning less, and you *need* that extra energy or, again, you'll never get pressure to your tips on the backside when you are going fast.
    Also, you have several positions you reject because your weight goes down and forward. But consider that in moguls you are ideally absorbing a lot so those lower positions, right at the transition, is exactly where most people fall into the backseat and the worst place to do so. So the critical position to analyze is precisely the low absorbed position, how you move from that position, and what energies are stored (or that you want to make sure and store) and available to you in that moment, not the extended position. Of course extended position is related because how you are both absorbed and forward at the same time, and are able to explode down the back of the bumps, is fundamentally connected to what you are doing right before that moment.

  • @ttruong225
    @ttruong225 4 роки тому +2

    This is the first mogul video i've seen that focuses on technique from a side angle as opposed the front or back! Thanks Tom! Any chance you could make one about hip rotation from mogul to mogul?

  • @КсенияСафронова-н3д

    wow! This is a perfect explanation! 🙏🏻 thanks

  • @jimbosaul3996
    @jimbosaul3996 4 роки тому

    thnx for taking the time todo this. looks like you really nailed the analysis especially when you line up the pros and you in kitchen. makes sense.
    now, can i do any of it it the next issue !@ probably nup. but i'll try !

  • @jjanderson8235
    @jjanderson8235 4 роки тому

    Also, poles (handles) out front within peripheral eye prompt forward attitude w. 'quiet' upper body (shoulders and forearms). Great kitchen to slope analysis, Kudos!

  • @georgeprivon-qt3cjaa843
    @georgeprivon-qt3cjaa843 5 років тому

    Great stuff Tom! Fits in nicely with your coaching last month at TC.

  • @wladimirs7166
    @wladimirs7166 5 років тому +6

    The best video about mogul skiing I've ever seen. Thanks!
    Самое крутое видео о могуле. Спасибо.

  • @rb02909
    @rb02909 4 роки тому +1

    Thanks for this - was totally new to me. Now I "just" have to put it into praxis... 🙂

  • @jimbryant007
    @jimbryant007 3 роки тому

    This is Gold. Thank you Tom - very thorough

  • @jamesd5969
    @jamesd5969 5 років тому

    Find a nice long steep sand dune and you can practice this movement in real time with poles. Mosley’s dry land training which he got from the Russians gave us a great example. The sand dune is a lot softer. I like to set up a camera on a tripod to work on knees, hands, and various details.

  • @PR-rh9qm
    @PR-rh9qm 2 роки тому

    Seems like I've been watching a lot of videos. This one is helpful, though like some others here I am of an age (67) and condition (+10 lbs over ideal) where elite, zipper-line skiing is out of the question! Still, it seems reasonable that pushing hips forward will help draw skis relatively backwards and help me keep speed down. I can't wait to try it. @PatGilbert: thanks for the tip about the mogul book. Just ordered it. Maybe that will be as helpful as all these videos.

  • @Wootiify
    @Wootiify 3 роки тому

    this helped me a lot to get to the next level. THANK YOU

  • @Artiscrafty
    @Artiscrafty Рік тому

    Love your approach.

    • @Artiscrafty
      @Artiscrafty Рік тому

      Search mogul demo. By mogul mutt. That’s me..

  • @MorganBrown
    @MorganBrown 5 років тому

    Cool. Seems like the Skia trainers encourage the pressure on the balls of the feet. I’ll have to work on that this fall

  • @TheJeffatan
    @TheJeffatan 5 років тому +2

    Gold...Thanks. Tom ..may I ask you a question? You mentioned including forefoot roll..that we should strive to thrush the hip somewhat inline with the bench top at the same time. Is that bench top line the slope in general or the downhill side of the bump we are cresting?

  • @brunojanik
    @brunojanik 4 роки тому

    You guys are perfect
    This video is the best of the bests

  • @davidmalits5946
    @davidmalits5946 5 років тому

    The best video I saw about the subject!
    Thanks!

  • @bogdangrytchuk4295
    @bogdangrytchuk4295 5 років тому +1

    Great kitchen class Tom 👍many thanks

  • @dchingy
    @dchingy 6 місяців тому

    Great video about moment... not the usual tips that wveryone talks about.... same thing over and over again

  • @patgilbert9785
    @patgilbert9785 2 роки тому

    OMG!!!! This changed everything. I (recreationally - comment below is bullshit - I exert so much less stress on my knees and back by using your advice than before) mogul ski with 2 of my siblings. We are expert mogul skiers but my sister can ski just a little better than me - arghhh - NOT ANYMORE!! I sit back too far and don't push my hips forward a bit like your videos show - I KICKED her ass this week on Drunken Frenchman (Mary Jane Colorado). No way to thank you enough. Even she complimented me - which Never happens! When skiers learning to do moguls see us ski - they always ask us how we are so smooth with our legs together - we always answer - "read the Book" the book meaning Everything the Instructors Never Told You about Mogul Skiing by Dan DiPiro that little book made us go from good mogul skiers to expert - but NOW after your video I am even better (oh by the way I am 57 years old)

  • @hopNglo
    @hopNglo 3 роки тому

    Excellent. Thank you.

  • @normferguson2769
    @normferguson2769 4 роки тому

    I used to be wild in moguls. My legs went everywhere and lots of energy was expended. One day a ski patroller went by me with minimum /quiet body. I made a conscious sort to calm the legs, use more ankle turn, knees in the fall line as much as possible, and retain quiet upper body.

    • @johnplath1072
      @johnplath1072 Рік тому

      My favorite game to play in bumps/crud in view of the lift: convince the viewer from the chair that you are skiing a groomer!

  • @jllaforce
    @jllaforce 4 роки тому

    They are not forward, their feet are back. Subtle but important difference. If you attempt to get your upper body forward, you will end up crouched. Keeping your feet back and keeping the tips down, or tails up, will create the correct position.

  • @darrensmith9143
    @darrensmith9143 4 роки тому

    Excellent excellent excellent. Thank you for this.

  • @blackestjake
    @blackestjake 3 роки тому +7

    Competitive mogul skiing is different from recreational mogul skiing. While this video shows how elite bump skiers handle high speeds and the forces involved it should not be confused with the most effective way of managing varied terrain for the average skier. Skiing like this WILL take a toll on the body (knees, back) and could be dangerous for skiers who think this is the ONLY way to ski bumps. In mogul competitions the bumps are carefully sculpted to allow the athletes a consistent, predictable rhythm which is rarely found in bumps which form naturally.

    • @christiane687
      @christiane687 2 роки тому +4

      I disagree with this. Recreational mogul skiing should aspire to emulate competitive mogul skiing because it is the safest and most controlled technique in the bumps. Done properly it is much easier, healthier and safer for a person's back regardless of the line being on a seeded course or natural bump line. Ideally the skier maintains a straight and upright posture, without forward bending at the waist. Constantly "breaking" at the waist and bouncing forward to absorb the impact of a bump is poor technique and what put's a skier's back at risk. The absorption should all happen in the legs, leaving the back in a position of low stress. Recreational skiers who emulate competitive mogul skiers can employ the same techniques to ski a zipper line in a controlled and safe manner, albeit at a slower speed. The fundamentals are passive absorption coming into the face of a bump (which controls speed), active extension to set an edge on the back side of the bump (which controls speed) and "quiet" hands always pushing forward, with the skier's arms extended and their elbows in front of the body. These fundamental pillars of mogul skiing apply to any types of bumps on or off the course.

    • @kevinmccarthy7907
      @kevinmccarthy7907 10 місяців тому

      I disagree with your comment. I broke my back at 20 years old. I am now 60. I teach skiing and still can still ski the zipper line, albeit more slowly. But, it does not hurt like you believe. My knees and back do not get sore.

    • @kevinmccarthy7907
      @kevinmccarthy7907 10 місяців тому

      ​@@christiane687 I agree with you. Not the original comment that you commented on.

  • @JB91710
    @JB91710 4 роки тому +1

    here's an easier way to explain this. There is a rod going from the bottom of the hill to the top and it passes through your chest. Your upper body slides down that rod while you push your feet down and pull them up to Anticipate the contours of the bumps. This keeps the weight on your feet consistent so your run is smooth with as few impacts as possible and your upper body will always be in a quiet position so you can maintain balance. That's why your eyes must be a few bumps ahead for that anticipation. You aren't even thinking of the bump you are actually on. This goes for Real mogul skiing where your skis actually turn and straight down the hill ricocheting off the bumps like you see in competition.

  • @puregsr
    @puregsr Рік тому

    This may sound weird, but this reminds me of the weird looking horse stance of wing chun kung fu, pelvis to tilted forward and up. Thought this would be interesting and a revelation for some us martial artists out there.

  • @ryanletterman1434
    @ryanletterman1434 5 років тому

    So there are some videos that talk about retracting the legs. This is all the same thing, right?

  • @jacobuskooijman6256
    @jacobuskooijman6256 5 років тому +1

    Like backwards riding on a bike movement with feet and legs.

  • @helenek5678
    @helenek5678 4 роки тому

    are we just going straight down the fall? where;s the turning etc?

  • @jude-7777
    @jude-7777 5 років тому +1

    It's a good analysis (I like example 3, e.g. Chuck Martin) but am looking forward to trying the reduced extension with more "pelvic thrust technique" with less elongation in the extension phase.
    NB. The Kingsley example is unfortunate because his weight is so far back that, besides being grotesque, his balls (of feet) can't possibly achieve the downward pointed form from backseat position he maintains.

    • @jude-7777
      @jude-7777 5 років тому

      @@Bigpictureskiing I appreciate your take, Tom. Kingsbury skis fast down uniform, predictable machine made bumps whereas, in the real world, advanced (weekend) skiers ski moguls of varying lengths, heights, pitches, and textures. The methods of the former and latter do not necessarily agree. If the clock isn't a factor, I much prefer watching and (better still) doing mogul skiing on 'natural' mogul terrain. At any rate, I value the aesthetics of good mogul skiing above other performing art forms and, for me at least, if it's not beautiful (graceful, strong, technically flawless) it's off (somehow deficient). I suppose when the clock is a non-factor, subjective taste assumes dominant importance.

  • @ianfoehr6011
    @ianfoehr6011 3 роки тому

    AHHH the air hump technique

  • @youngyuan181
    @youngyuan181 5 років тому

    Very helpful. Thank you!

  • @todaysnarrative879
    @todaysnarrative879 4 роки тому

    It's about handling speed

  • @i_gar
    @i_gar 4 роки тому

    Thank you!!!

  • @inquistive
    @inquistive 2 роки тому

    Hi #Tom, I have been told that the way to stay forward in the bumps is to pull the feet back at the top of the mogul. What are your thoughts on that?

    • @Bigpictureskiing
      @Bigpictureskiing  2 роки тому

      Absolutely all I’d say is you also need to keep the hips moving forward on top of this

    • @inquistive
      @inquistive 2 роки тому

      @@Bigpictureskiing Actually Tom, when the skier is fully compressed at the top of the bump, I believe it is very difficult, if not impossible to pull the feet back and that is perhaps why both your examples are not doing that.
      Also, people talk about actively extending into the hollow, but in your experience, is it not the case that having fully absorbed the bump, the skier just lets go of the absorbed/compressed unnatural position which results in the legs extending - in other words, doesn't it just happen naturally as opposed to actively?

    • @Bigpictureskiing
      @Bigpictureskiing  2 роки тому

      @@inquistive just what I feel: you’re pulling your feet back through the absorption. Abs even if you’re fully compressed tension in the muscles that pull the feet back will make a big difference.
      And no being passive is not enough. In many situations. At least not for me. I’m active to some extent. For sure there is a lot of extension that comes as a result of a well timed absorption but I ski better when I also focus on what I’m doing with the extension

  • @schneeschnittchen1736
    @schneeschnittchen1736 5 років тому

    Tom, again great video! I just discovered your channel and I'm excited, thank you 👍 When are you going to visit the Austrian Alps/ Tyrol? I would really like to book a personal training with you!! Is there any chance?? Or maybe you offer a ski camp there? Kind regards from Germany!

    • @schneeschnittchen1736
      @schneeschnittchen1736 5 років тому

      Thank you so much for your answer, a camp would be great 😇 I will stay tuned for sure 😉 See you in the alps some day!

  • @wallstreetoneil
    @wallstreetoneil 4 роки тому +1

    like rodeo bull riding - amazing stuff

  • @BMBW2008
    @BMBW2008 3 роки тому

    That is PA Rousseau not Kingsbury

  • @terryhagen180
    @terryhagen180 4 роки тому +3

    Keep your hands in front of you and you’ll be fine.

    • @jjanderson8235
      @jjanderson8235 4 роки тому

      Absolutely true in GS racing, applies to moguls too.

  • @jamesd5969
    @jamesd5969 5 років тому

    Yes two thumbs up.

  • @jonathanberger9469
    @jonathanberger9469 3 роки тому

    I call that the Michael Jackson move

  • @mitchelladrian9460
    @mitchelladrian9460 4 роки тому +1

    "Your ski boots are quite stiff" clearly you don't have full tilts

  • @expatinasia
    @expatinasia 4 роки тому

    Vivo Barefoot shoes?

  • @normalizedaudio2481
    @normalizedaudio2481 4 роки тому

    That first one will strain your lower back. It's not good at all. Try and get away from it.

  • @howwey530
    @howwey530 7 місяців тому

    gapers!

  • @i_gar
    @i_gar 4 роки тому

    Thank you!!!