The sniper skill itself isn't an advantage in PVP, but it gets you to level 7 faster, which gets to level 10 faster, which unlocks good ammo crafts and Lightkeeper questlines
It's fine, since you get beta container fairly quickly. Stash space is more of an issue, since you want to keep loads of stuff for hideout upgrades and questing + gear you got
@@sidecat5315 Beta container is sold by Peacekeeper level 2, which requires level 14 - and you unlock flea market at 15, from which you can just buy everything needed to buy the Beta container. If can't even get to level 15 and save some roubles, then you'd be just as shit at the game regardless of which edition you own. Yes, it is actually "fairly quickly".
My biggest problem with everything from a standard edition account gamer is because of the bigger secure container from both eod and unheard. I’ve lost fights due to not having a splint/other medical while using beta/alpha container. Gamma is pay to win this game has been pay to win since the absolute very start
@@sigataros I swear the last wipe I played in PVP I have to have lost a few mil at least alu splints ammo meds valuable/hideout items that where judged as less valuable than something I did have in my container it has to be millions. It’s less of a problem now that I main PvE and already rushed punisher six
@@sigataros that is very much person to person because if your good enough you can just roll other people then u will rarely have to use meds and if u do its not any expensive ones
Yeah I think he missed the entire point of the wipe cycle. everyone with the p2w gets a massive head start and at the beginning of the wipe that big stash and having space for 2 whole mags it's unfair. For money to be the limiting factor of in-game progress or features is P2W. Pay to Win: involving or relating to the practice of paying to get weapons, abilities, etc. that give you an ADVANTAGE over players who do not spend money. P2W has nothing to do with how many fights you win, just because you killed someone who was P2W doesn't mean that they aren't paying to win
Jaeger LL4 barely makes a difference for anything at all. Sure, grinding Jaeger LL4 on a standard account is awful, but he doesn't actually sell anything useful - and the only hideout upgrade he's needed for is water collector 3, which itself is only needed for booze generator (slow, small, consistent profit) and bitcoin farm level 3 (which if you even have more than 25 GPUs to put into it, you already don't need more money).
@@paradoxuscz7337 M62 at least won't reliably one-tap or get sent 500m+ accurately. AXMC is kind of a meme, the real meat of Jaeger LL4 is the SICC barter and access to thermals.
Same in the War Thunder sphere, we finally got a road map of the changes Gaijin promised, but the biggest one still hasn't been added after iirc a year. They have done many changes to "fix" the broken nature of the ingame economy, but it's still a grindfest, and they haven't been listening to the community very well on recent changes, so some people have been wanting to do another review bomb to make Gaijin actually listen for once.
@@meerbee2910 listen bro. I'm going to be real with you. I do not care what you have to say. Why are you speaking for another man ? That is not your place. If you are swearing to God, you are swearing to a specific God. He didn't say I swear to the gods. So take the cock out of your mouth and mind your business.
As a standard edition player, I respectfully disagree. Having an expanded stash size and free storage boxes right off the bat does have an effect on gameplay. P2W in this game doesn't necessarily have to only be about gunplay, but overall progression (hideout, traders, wealth, etc)
i remember when i was grinding for tier 2 jaeger for way too long and when i got eod i just had to level up and sell him stuff basically eod is kinda op
Yeah mostly p2w at the start of a wipe though, It dramatically decreases the amount of raid time you are getting in due to the tetris, which in turn dramatically reduces your progression which allows you to acquire better gear. I don't think I need to say Gear = Better chance to survive and kill others.
As it happens with any game with character progression, a small advantage at the beginning creates a snowball effect that results in a much greater advantage later on, and things just keep getting worse with the inclusion of Unheard edition which lets players save millions of rubles that would have to be spend on containers like scav boxes, and also with the Arena linking which gives players an absurd amount of experience so they quickly reach the level needed to unlock max level traders. People who claim that there is no pay to win in Tarkov are simply copping-out to the fact that they paid money to receive gameplay advantages, so they keep pretending it's not a big deal.
I feel like ignoring the fact that progression is helped by having more expensive editions, therefor an advantage in gameplay over other players is entirely ignored. If you can have more stash space for more weapons armor items for progress/quests to fast pace your progression, this is an advantage, even if minor. and any-even SLIGHT advantage is pay to win. it doesn't matter how minor. the term "Pay to win" is not literal, it has always meant paying for gameplay change over other players. even if it's just stash lines it is an advantage.
generally i agree, but the thing is that you as a player will never notice or know. It could very well just be somebody grinding couple hours every day. I think that they need to have consistent income one way or another, at the end of the day they are a business with people they have to pay every month and having a game which only generates 50$ out of one user for the entire game life is not sustainable. I would rather have this type of stuff in the game, than skins or lootboxes that dont fit into eft at all, but other companies utilize.
The term is loose and is not hard defined,no matter how much you want it to be otherwise. He stated at the start what his view is on it as far as parameters go. Youre free to disagree,of course. But dont act like youre the law on what p2w means.
@@xSintex yes, actually, by definition "Pay 2 Win" means the process of spending real money to get an advantage in game. You can try to bend over backwards to argue with it and say "its only a loose definition that just so happens to be agreed upon by 9/10 sources" but that's silly. Tarkov players just need to own up to the fact that its pay to win and that they're fine with it cause they'd rather be able to skip few annoying Jaeger quests or hold onto more kits (which noone will blame you for). It's pay to win but we've all accepted it for years cause devs needed money and people wanted to enjoy themselves. Just stop with denying this shit, cause that's embarrassing.
@@aenodarr7936 all of the stacked advantages you get set you up completely for a much smoother early wipe which sets you up for the entire wipe. pretending it's merely convenience is silly. i was struggling to decide what loot i had to sell or discard while my friends with EOD were hoarding 50 kits with room to spare and making more cash, combined with the better trader rep being able to take better equipment in far earlier because they did not have to stick with shitty RNG loot quests to get further on.
@lmao.3661 "punished for success" if you were successful, you'd have items and weapons cases. Items case are 5 x 5 and give you over the double the space. Weapons cases, Mag cases, ammo cases give you triple or even quadruple the space (at the same cost everyone follows of only storing specific things). You get access to these items extremely early. You also can dismantle weapons, taking off the handle alone literally halves weapon sizes. I have standard edition, I'm not punished for success, I am rewarded.
I'm pretty much with you everytime, but this time you really missed, truth is in a game like tarkov where progression is key, depending which version you buy you get a significant advantage towards your wipe progression, it might not be like a golden one shot bullet, but you get a great head start too in early wipe, not counting the secure container advantage, rep advantage, overall stash availability, you don't need to get a rocket launcher to be paying for an actual advantage in such a game where a single raid is just a part of the entire game experience. Edit: I also forgot to mention you save millions of roubles in early wipe since you don't have to upgrade the stash size with EoD or Unheard
If you pay to have an advantage on your first raid on the start of the wipe - the game has pay to win elements. If you pay to have faster progression that allows you to have better gear than other players at your level at the first days of the wipe - the game has pay to win elements. If you pay to have extra space in your secure container that allows you to bring in extra high tier ammo, full stack of stims, the best kind of meds - stuff that otherwise you wouldn't bring with you every raid because of the risk of losing it - than yeah the game is pay to win.
Depends how you look at Pay to Win definition. Like it was introduced first to me with Web browser game, where not having premium account/buying special upgrades etc. Meant you had 0 chance to compete with person who did use it. So at least for me, P2W means: 1. I have no chance to compete with person who spend money (He has advantage which i can't overcome on my own, however in FPS it's diffrent, cause we can compete with skill etc. especially Tarkov where you can kill almost any1 with anything) 2. There are things which i can't get, without spending money. (Here we can argue, cause like Gamma is not obtainable, but Kappa is, however it's too difficult for most ppl) All other things, so gear/stash/cases/pockets are obtainable via playing or very similar, but not as big SC (i mean Epsilon). So according to my experience i never said EFT is P2W, more like P4convience or Pay to gain advantage. HOWEVER during Unheared Drama i was really mad, cause even if i own EoD, BSG was always saying that "everything will be obtainable via playing", meanwhile back then they did make pockets/radio "exclusive" for Unheard.
@@niewiarygodny6853 To me this is like saying "I wasn't cheating, I only toggled my wallhacks on for a few seconds instead of for the whole raid". If you get any notable advantage in gameplay after paying up, it's pay to win whether you get invincibility or if you just get a few extra inventory slots to start with. Maybe the latter might not literally make you always win over standard edition players, but the idea is there; pay to get an advantage. Also, a player with the standard edition can indeed grind up to the level of unheard. However, until they get to the point where they're equal, they're at a disadvantage. If both a standard and unheard edition player have about the same skill/playtime/luck, the unheard player will always be ahead anyway.
@@cassidy8307 I understand your point and will not challange it, cause it's fine to have diffrent opinions :P. I grew up, when web browser been super popular and thats how i look at P2W, if someone calls EFT P2W it's fine, i understand, i just don't see it like it. Cause standard defitnion can still have fair fights vs Unheared/EoD edtion at any stage of the wipe. Overall, P2W is or can be a very extensive definition and sometimes (as in this case) you stretch it, even if it does not fit in 100%. Thats why i used to use either: - Pay4Convience (Bigger stash) - Going further, does it mean Diablo 4 is P2W because you can buy extra storage? Doubt any1 would call it like this :P or - PayToGainAdvantage (Which is Gamma, even if Beta/Epsilon is quite easy to get, so it's not that ppl have 4 slots till end of the game. Then 3?-4? Sets of gear, which may last those 4 raids if someone was unlucky and died, trader rep) Cause still. P2W for me - Gives you something you can't achive via playing and you have 0 chance to compete with ppl who do spend money. So if you look at my justification. Is EFT still more like P2W, P4Convience or Pay2GainAdvantage? Edit -> Like Lost Ark was literally Pay2Win game, you could just "buy" progress which is still non existant in Tarkov and i would never place those 2 titles near each other :p
@@lolasdm6959 SO you place Lost Ark (you could literally buy progress/gear via money), at the same spot as Tarkov. Gotcha. Or Diablo4 (Cause you can buy extra storage). Thats fine, i am just open minded with such things and if there are other definition i prefer to use those ^^.
@@MalRak02 Unity is a very capable engine, it makes it much easier to code things into the game then things like unreal and while it takes more time to get better graphics it's still possible, as tarkov itself proves
If you have a larger stash that means you can store more gear, meaning every loss you take is *less* than if someone who doesn't have it takes the same loss. Someone with standard is losing a *lot* more than someone with unheard of or even the other tiers. Not even to mention the tons of free gear and currency each version over standard has. Literally the *only* difference to f2p models is that you pay up front and have it given to you each wipe. Otherwise it's the exact same advantage as buying boosters and in game currency in other titles. I have many reasons I choose to pay spt over live whenever I do play the game, this sort of thing is just another tick on that list.
People always look at micro gameplay without considering macro, p2w can be something that just makes players progress at a faster rate to be at an advantage against players with similar time investment and skill levels, and not just moment-to-moment gunfights. With how much the P2W argument focuses on micro gameplay, I'd bet good money BSG could release the *Unfathomable Edition* that gives players immunity to hunger/thirst and a significantly reduced trader restock time (now possible since global limits arent a thing anymore) and people would still defend it because "Those effects wont make you automatically win fights."
That is true enough but we are a dozen wipes in. So really, it's negligible at this pt. The true advantage is time and knowledge. Which basically the whole playerbase has rn. Ppl already get a max traders in 1-4 days. If you no life this game, it doesnt matter where you start at. You will have an advantage over those that dont. Many ppl can 500k-1,2,3m from zero to hero. So such players wouldnt matter for their speed run being marginal faster. It'd only benefit the semi new player the most. Who knows a lil, but not enough to speed run through 50 quest chains. Unheard edition honestly shouldnt be in the game. Really a pointless edition for ecosystem. Ppl should really learn that it is dumb to attempt to milk something infinitely. Eventually stuff dries out. No such thing as an infinite singular cashcow.
Expanded pockets can be a pretty tangible advantage in the quests that force you to use scav vests. Normally if you see a guy with a scav/security vest you know he only has two, maybe three, mags to work with. Which is knowledge you can potentially use to your advantage. But with unheard he can have up to five.
Gotta call foul on this one. maybe the rep gate is worthless to people that can do quests easily but knowing that you can put some stuff on the back burner makes a big difference. Pay to win doesn't just mean direct gunfight comparisons Eod has over standard Upgraded stash from the get go= more storage space BUT also skipping the stash size requirements to upgrade hideout parts, saving 11 MILLION rubles and 200k EUROS (not including items), kinda a big deal .15 rep, seems small but thats around 10 daily's PER trader, also allowing you wiggle room in early questing, if you fall behind you can bounce back faster. and if you focus on levels thats faster LL You straight up start with lvl4 armour and an MDR, instantly putting you at advantage over a standard lvl 1 Secure containers obviously and your pockets argument is weak, the pockets may not help in a direct gunfight, unless you know, they can fit 2 extra mags on them and thus have more available ammo no matter what rig they have (throw 2 60s and that's 120 more BP they can sling at you). But also those pockets let him get more loot, which let him buy better gear, which helped him kill you. This whole thing sounds like some serious copium if the higher editions give you in game Items/gear/rep/time saves that's PAY TO WIN, if they give cosmetic only its not PAY TO WIN. kinda simple
I am a player of Tarkov, but not the usual one, I play SPTarkov. From my experience, you are fairly correct, the options of guns you have to buy at the start and the firepower you can get does make a difference. Even just the extra starting cash will usually allow you to get better stuff for the first firefight.
Its no different from mobile games that have real life timers for actions to complete. The timer just being an artificial obstacle so you buy premium or gems to skip the timer. Tarkov deliberately waste your time with having to play tetris in the stash, just to upsell you stash upgrades. The whole concept is stolen from mobile games.
He’s not saying it’s not P2W because by definition it is, but none and I mean absolutely none of these will make or break a fight, and at the end of the day that’s the only interaction you’ll have is fighting these people, what they have outside of raid doesn’t effect you if you’re seriously saying that the guy who can afford 2 60s of BP won’t also be able to afford a rig to carry it, you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about
I bought EoD in 2018, back around the 0.10 beta and have always been for the opinion that any version upgrade of the game over the base copy is Pay 2 Win. Cope all you want about "but you can lose all your items in raid!!!11!!!1“, but a larger stash and larger secure container is by definition is giving you some kind of advantage - Pay 2 Win.
What people like to miss is they associate Pay to win with outright PVP advantage. However all of the things the higher editions give you literally makes you have an advantage in pvp since higher gear can be acquired regularly easier. This advantage is noticeable and not mildly but pretty obviously.
Exactly. Like how not every cheat is an aimbot. But hey, I guess being able to suck up loot through walls isn't cheating because it gives you no combat advantage.
I think an issue to consider is that the extra slots, cases, and pockets allows for more loot to be retained, leading to more money, better loot over time, and quests being completed more often. All of that combined definitely leads to an accumulated advantage.
It feels like a bigger stash would help in raid by speeding progression by a lot, and thus having better gear than non paying players. that sounds like a big advantage!
Honestly, playing with SPT and such, stash size is one of the biggest determining factor on my ease of raids. Default stash I can, if I'm lucky, keep one set of backup gear early on before I get my cases. Once I have a scav case, I can probably squeeze two in easily enough. But even with that, it's a huge pain. Bad luck on two raids means I'm out of kit, and I'm going in with next to nothing. And gear is the single biggest determining factor between victory and defeat in Escape.
yeah eod gives stash lvl 4 off the bat. no more grinding for tons of items and millions of roubles. u can buy stash lines to add more. u can buy unheard to get 5 mill worth of boxes to add even more loot. and ingame ofcourse u can now also get a weapon rack and mannequin. as well as trophy shelf. my fav space to stash my lions and cats.
Stash size does have an effect on gameplay. It does affect PVP. Everything in Tarkov ties together; it was designed that way. If you don't think the size of your stash affects your ability, try playing your next wipe with just 4 lines of space. It's going to have an effect on your survival rate.
yes, i don't know why this guy tried to hide the fact that bigger stash = pay to win, it's clearly pay to win when you can get rid of annoying inventory management waste of time, bigger stash = less time management , more raid, faster progression and more money.......
@@minorishimizu4241 Plus you get to save more items which means more to sell on the flea when you unlock it, or less you have to spend buying hideout upgrades or re-questing for items when you can just have them saved from earlier instead.
pretty much the video is "Unheard dosent make you do more damage so its not PTW" wich is acceptable in any other game but iin a game where every item counts shit its very notice , just beacouse its not better for fights doesnt mean its not PTW unless you only care about fights, tell me right now that staritng with 10 lines of stash 500000k and 1 base m4 is the same as triple the stath quadruple money better guns and more storage on your pmc
it's the same. you're going to lose it all, re-get it, and lose it all again in the exact same manor. what you start with makes no difference in the game loop. everyone ends up where they're game knowledge, skill level, and luck takes them after week two of wipe lol.
Disagree. The only thing that matters here is buffed lvl for traders, cause you can get to the desired lvl a little earlier then others. How much money or how big of a stash your opponent has doesnt affect your fight with him at all.
minor point about the rep, new players are less likely to be keeping up with quests and are more likely to not have the rep required before hitting the level requirement. source: myself, when I was new, I always hit the rep requirements about 3 levels late. it's not a huge thing, but it is something.
Not only new players but every owner of standard edition, quests are boring af, doing the same thing everytime when game wipes is not fun, EoD players can get faster to the best part of the game...
the 3 levels in bolt actions is actually quite good because of quests that require bolt levels, you can skip a lot of raids with bolties thanks to that
I was thinking the same thing and I’m surprised he didn’t mention it in the video. Each wipe, I find myself bringing a spare mosin and reload it relentlessly to level up my boltie levels lol
The mark of the unheard wasn't pve-only on release and 6 scav rep is grindable in like 2 days. Scavs routinely aggro from 200-ish meters out so it was handy. I feel it's wrong to give Nikita a pass because he caved to the backlash. Don't forget about him thinking it's fair to put in an "avengers assemble" item as well. As someone with both an eod and standard edition account, they get nothing more from me and I'm spt-only until they do something to curb the cheating problem a bit.
@@sepachortels6366yes it quite literally is stop defending a company who lied to you mislead you and is now putting content they told you would come free behind a paywall
Hey man those stash lines are deadly. I have eod and my one buddy has a standard account. His stash makes me want to walk barefoot on glass covered in lime juice and salt. After every raid it takes him 30 minutes to figure out how to fit whatever he got out of raid into his various bags, rigs and other assorted containers and shit. Them stash lines would save him.
Friend of mine had eod for years and then got me into trakov. I got basic version. At first, I was doing shenanegans with rigs to save space. My eod friend checked my stash and he was shocked with how much stuff I had packed and that it was even possible. Years came by. I eventually realised that I waste too much time with storage and I started to sell most of the loot. Then I've looked into my eod friend stash and there were DOZENS of csa and other rigs filled with random crap like cheap-ass 30 round mags, bandages and random items for ragman quests, just in case. But he was not going to start ragman anyway. I still wonder if this is my fault 😅
Yeah the fact you can pick up 1x2 items with extended pocket while being a nake* runner isnt broken sure 🙃 take the same risk as the other nake* runner, but earn more cause you pay more.
You can already put bigger items in your secure container, and a bank robber only costs like 10k. The only time the extra pockets ever actually matter is in making the scav vest quests easier to do, which is incredibly niche.
Respectfully disagree. Tarkov is pay to win and always has been. Secure containers being the obvious culprit. However, stash space, hideout advancement, are 💯 pay to win features IMHO. Pay to win isn't just about in raid stuff. It's about being able to progress faster, get money faster, store more, etc. that gives you in turn better gear against opponents in raids. The starting gear alone is huge pay to win. Can you kill them? Sure, but that does not negate the fact that it was pay to win.
Yeah nah, only time i'll disagree with you. The editions over basic are pretty objectively pay to win. Just the stash size and bigger container alone are immense. This is a game about looting, and about losing. One allows you to stock more stuff, the other allows you to dampen the loss significantly. Hell, a standard edition player can't even stuff a surv-12 up their ass. Just an injector case means giving up 1/4th of your ass space as a standard user. i've experienced this myself, being a standard edition user, playing with EoDs, they have an immense progression advantage, and progression advantage in EFT eventually translates into combat advantage.
I literally said this. Yes the secure containers are Pay-to-Win. I disagree on the stash cases as they have the same practical effect as additional stash lines.
@@leviticus1132 Levi you don't understand the pain of having to sell the items you get back in insurance because you don't have enough space in your stash.
@@leviticus1132 sad that you forgot the struggle... To minimize bad practices because for a veteran player those advantages doesn't matter and saying that, it is not a big deal... kinda sad.
I think there is a thing you overlooked while talking about pockets. You can run smaller rigs or even go without them. Wich makes you lighter, wich makes you faster.
Extended pockets, bigger container and higher trader rep is all pay to win. In this video the biggest metric for deciding what's pay to win is without a doubt, combat. While you might come to think that these things are just quality of life and don't affect combat, they do. With so many improvements to your quality of life like; saving money with no rigs by using pockets, bigger containers to get more money out if you die, easily leveling up traders giving you access to better gear for cheaper and lastly bigger stash giving you leeway for storing unnecessary amounts of gear. While none of these affect combat itself, eventually you'll have made significant progress significantly faster giving you access to frequently using better gear then your opponents without any editions. Making their experiences fighting you more challenging for them if we look at equipment alone.
The problem with QoL advantages is not that they make you win in PvP fights, its that it makes the entire game easier and less annoying. The game in pay to win not against other players but against the annoyance/difficulty of the game itself: in its annoyance with stash management, with questing, with in-raid loot. That is why the game is P2W, not because it will give an advantage against other people but that it gives you an advantage against the game itself that others may not have. Its the devs rewarding people that pay more with a less annoying and frustrating game.
It blurs the line between "Pay to be less annoyed" and "Pay to more easily beat the game", but at the end of the day in a game like EFT it boils down to the same thing.
These things that "aren't p2w cause they are PvE only" were introduced as PvP items as well and only got changed to PvE only after MAJOR community backlash and multiple Nikita replies that the community was wrong for how we were feeling. That was the issue. BSG are careless and see us as money bags to siphon money from and will only do it again.
The game is pay to win because it's easier to progress quickly with higher editions. If I put in 10 hours as standard I'm going to be nowhere near as far as 10 hours on EOD. The added stash size allows you to horde anything and everything you will ever need even for quests that are miles away. You also have much more room to store weapons and armor you might use later rather than being forced to sell it for scraps. That combined with the bigger secure container makes it so much easier to make money and save it on having to rebuy meds/weapons/armor every death. In short having better editions allows you to get ahead of the general curve when it comes to levels and money which will then allow you to load into raids with better gear. Once you get to T3 traders that advantage is huge. It's the same as playing a T1 kit in arena against a T3 kit, you ain't gonna kill em 90% of the time.
ever since I took the spt pill I can actually play the digital entertainment product/service so called 'video game' and I finally feel as though my 50$+taxes was in fact, not wasted after 8 months of having spent it ykno I am now completely deaf to terms such as "bsg" or "nikita" and am now completely at the mercy of "sain" and whomever spt veteran in the discord group who'll disregard everything I say and re-type the entire history of the project assuming I didn't read it because I started caring about tarkov more than 0.5 microseconds later than they did.
The pockets are similar to the case, it allows you to either acquire more loot, or (because you have two 2x1 slots) carry full sized mags into raid without a rig. Obviously it's not going to "win you a fight" late game but it could definitely make a difference early game. Even just a standard rat run where all you do is run in and grab as much as possible with nothing on you now could be significantly more profitable. In terms of "PvP" (in quotes because more money = better gear), it probably won't immediately win you the fight, but in the long run, it will make a difference.
IDK man ı come from Quake, UT, CS, Insurgency etc. and in those games you pay for the game once and you are same level as everyone else. The only thing that can be p2w is cosmetics where some of them might be too good of a camouflage in certain maps aka Insurgency Sandstorm and pre-patch CSGO agent skins. I'd say its still p2w and downgrading it by saying things like, it doesn't affect pvp that much or its pay for convenience is bending down/lowering our standards and accepting these practices which ı whole heartedly disagree.
As a fellow EoD owner.. even EoD is P2W. I had a standard account for probably 300ish hours before my upgrade and I can tell you that the game was a LOT easier post upgrade than before. why? stash size meant I didn't have to sell decent items to make room for other needed items. the rep help we get with traders means that there are certain points that I can focus in on just playing the game rather than constantly having to worry about the grind. the weapons that you get to start a wipe are better and overall its a much calmer experience early wipe/ late wipe than a basic account is. Unheard is literally just better EoD and therefore... is pay to win. pocket size increase is actually a big deal to me as well because it means people can run 30 to even 60 rounds mags OUT OF THEIR POCKETS. obviously they are still risking the same gear but it makes things incredibly easier for those who have it vs those who don't. P2W does not always mean an exact advantage like... giving me 300 Bs rounds vs you getting 300prs. it can sometimes mean that you lowered the difficulty of the game which indirectly impacts the players around you.
Tarkov is a game about progression. Anything that makes progression easier ruins the game pretty much. Yes, EoD too. If you doubt that tarkov is an MMO with progression at its core - imagine if tarkov had no wipes and game was pretty much a complete sandbox in regards to the gear and consumables. It be dead in a couple of months.
@4:42 The point isn't that someone has bigger pockets so they win, its that those bigger pockets let them extract with more value then someone with less pockets and so they have the potential to get more expensive gear faster Its not about having more access to space during a fight, its how that access to more inventory space provides a small boon in resources that can stack up over time
Few thing wrong with the video: -The sniper skill itself will outpace most other players to level 10 -You didnt mention the ammo like 7.62x54mm R PS gzh , 5.45x39mm BT gs (90 pcs.) or the 7.62x51mm M80 (60 pcs.) 5.56x45mm M856A1 4.6x30mm JSP SX 9x21mm BT gzh -The weapon case and Junkbox can be sold for roubles from Traders -You didn't mention starting money at all, its the only edition to have a starting 1000000 roubles 1000 Dollars and 500 Euros -You didnt mention the high level armor like the NPP KlASS Bagariy plate carrier (Digital Flora) and WARTECH TV-115 plate carrier which literally stop bullets fresh wipe These things on their own may not be pay to win per se but all of them together make the advantage more significant.
@@theldapperapple2382 and some people dont understand that theyre literally grasping at straws to justify their skill issue. The world continues to go around
@@theldapperapple2382 something like stash size is bassicly irellevant once your good enough at the game since you will just win most fights and it doesnt matter. Yes smaller stashes would technically lose more but that doesnt matter if you are consitent enough and can get those kits back.
Bigger pockets = more ammo without need to spend as many roubles on tactical rigs. Bigger secure container = more ability to secure treasure items to minimize money loss if you die, also being able to actually bring a surv-kit without completely wasting it if you die not to mention other meds Bigger stash + ammo case + weapons case + scav junk box = never having to get rid of a single quest item early due to lack of storage space, also being able to hold onto more sets of gear to go through when you die over and over. Greater starting rep = leveled traders way earlier, you definitely over estimate how quickly the average player can get tasks done to gain rep I played in like 3 or 4 wipes and always got to level 15-20 without hardly completing signal part 1. The reason there's more outrage about this now as opposed to 8 years ago with EOD is not views, first of all the game is far more popular than it used to be, there's simply more people to talk about it. Secondly, EOD was intended as an early supporter version for people who wanted to provide more funding for the game. Now that they're pushing for 1.0, adding an even more expensive version is just plain greedy and is a practice that should have gone away a long time ago when they had enough income. This is coming from an EOD account owner, I have an unfair advantage over other players, Tarkov is pay to win. I wish I didn't get any bonuses for owning EOD. BSG are an awful company and their game should be boycotted entirely but most content creators don't seem to have a spine.
Fully agree. I enjoy tbis guys content, but he refuses to acknowledge criticism or even argue his point. The only comments he responded to were just memeing or agreeing. I don't like to use this word because it's overused, but He truly is a shill for sure. He can add up the costs just fine, but somehow, he can't see how a bunch of small advantages get bigger? Please. I hate seeing him play dumb. His arguments were, "You can't physically use storage space as a weapon" As if pvp is the only aspect of tarkov, or "its been p2w forever so who cares?" It's a child's mentality.
In case you guys are wondering this video was literally designed to generate comments through controversy. He formulates an argument with a holes in it on purpose so people argue in the comments section to boost engagement. Of course a game that cost $250 is going to be pay to win lol. People wouldn't pay for it unless it did give tangible benefits. The basis of the game is the mitigation and management of risk. Paying for DLCs: -decreases the amount of time players need to hit certain benchmarks that grant them access to gear with better kill potential - eliminates the need to pay for meds and ammunition with a nine slot gamma - nine slot gamma gives players more than twice the amount of space to exfil loot on a loss - the massive stash size at the beginning of wipe means buyers don't have to spend Millions on Lucky scav junk boxes the first few days of wipe. - increase stash size also means that buyers don't have to choose between here they would need to purchase anyway versus future Quest items. The list goes on Ad infinitum. Exchanging currency for a comparative advantage is by definition pay to win. Buyers pay for an advantage and get one in every way possible. It's like running a marathon naked and starving next to someone who paid $249.99 for the "Advanced Runner Pro Package" that get three Square meals, nike sponsorship, anabolic steroids, and a 20-ft head Start lmao. Get real.
I 100% consider increased stash space a major advantage. Having more room for sets and loot is huge. Actually having guns and equipment, armors, grenades, helmets, the works, is massive. Especially early on when you can't even acquire that stuff. If I don't have space in my stash, I don't have that kit. It's that simple. The difference then becomes having armor, versus not having armor. And that is one of the biggest differences in PVP in Tarkov.
I'm on standard and my friend has eod. The amount of times i was struggling to just drop off the loose loot ive picked up in raid (while i still have the basic stash) while my friend has 10 kits of weapons + armors, helmets and headsets and spare space... EoD players saying stash space is not an advantage (especially early wipe) just haven't played without eod benefits for years and are in denial at this point cause they think it'd take away from their skill if they admitted its p2w
objectively p2w is p4convenience. period. stash is the main mechanic of the game. more items = more money = more money = better guns = better guns = easier pvp.
more stash = more items = more money = better gear = better payday to the rat who 7mm'd your legs wearing a paca. p2w is not real in the practical gameplay loop that is tarkov lol. the ONLY genuine argument for p2w in EFT is if you were kappa/lightkeeper racing with a standard vs greater edition. Other than that, an above average player on a standard account will always do better than a below average player on an upgraded account.
Yes, but at the same time no, if we talk about Tarkov. I mean with better edition you also get few extra guns and armors, which in current state of hitboxes have high chance to actually increase your chances to win or survive fight. So i agree with SC/Stash/Rep, that those are either "P4convenience" or "Pay to gain advantage" (Like you die 20 times, always having those few meds in SC, instead of pockets, you save 20-40k per death, so those 20 deaths = to 1 good scav raid you don't need to do) But those guns/armors make that this P2W line is thin. I personally never called Eft P2W but i do realise that many ppl will call EFT P2W. + Depends how you look at P2W too, like i always looked it as "Without buying things from shop, you have no chance to compete with other players" as it was true in old browser games, where you could instantly build buildings, build x at the same time with premium etc.
I saw what you gain with Unhead through SPT, it's totally P2W. The 2 larger pockets alone are a crazy advantage over the life of a wipe. You get so much extra starting gear, including containers on top of the expanded stash. The rep bonus, especially on Fence, is a crazy boost for Scavs. I couldn't believe it. Now it makes so much sense why so many picked it up.
You conveniently left out the fact that people with bigger editions can buy more ammo and have longer insurance retention times. There are just so many things that stack up and end up in a definitive pay2win experience. If you don't acknowledge that, you're coping.
@@comic_the_ace Longer insurance is essentially 'just' additional stash place. But the higher personal limits for ammo are arguably one of the worst additions. It directly impacts your ability to PvP and run certain guns.
so more items means that you're weightless i assume? so if i have more mags with more ammo in my big pockets will i be able to move as fast as you during the start of the wipe?
The main mechanic in Tarkov to get better gear is just being able to afford it, so everything that causes me to gain money faster is directly affecting my next gun fight. Bigger Pockets -> More Loot -> Better Equipment. Need to less questing -> less investment into quests -> more money for guns -> Better Equipment. Bigger Secure Container -> Loose less healing/whatever items on death -> more money - > Better Equipment. As an EOD owner, i will straight up have better equipment even a few raids into the wipe than somoene with the exact same skill as me but only standard version and i will kill them in a gunfight with that better Equipment. Its Pay to Win and the only reason i still play this game is because there is no better alternative to it. But please, lets stop making excuses for it.
Usually I love your vids bro but this one is quite a huge miss. Specially in terms of stash, as somebody who plays standard edition, the stash ends up slowing down the progress by terrible amounts of time due to the constant need of sacrificing the loot for the sake of fitting everything into such a small space, specially when you already know how the game works - it's a life changer. A friend of mine with EoD can alwayd find extra space in his stash to save some rare item for the future hideout upgrade or for some annoying quest. As a result, he ends up getting through the quests faster, which impacts his level, unlocks him better stuff and just by level 20-30 there already is a visible gap in the quests completion and in the hideout upgrades between me and him
I do disagree with your take on the rep boost. Or at least, I want to point out that while Peacekeeper II is insanely easy to get too, Peacekeeper III is a massive leap. For players who buy into having higher trader rep, they only need to gain an additional 0.10 points to reach level III. Standard edition players need a whole 0.30 points. Couple that with the fact that standard edition players are going to finish Friend from the West Part II typically later, and some players might not have built up 0.10 rep by the time they're level 23.
also, I think that while EoD players cannot access their larger stash in-game, the overall benefits that come with more space for weapons, ammo, and meds (plus the gamma container), means that they're on average going to be more beefy than your usual standard edition player of the same level.
Pay for convenience IS pay to win. No if's or but's. You spend less time playing tetris, you have an easier time collecting loot. Percentages compound and 10 negligible and small things will in the span of a hundred thousand players decide fights. How is going from one secure container to a bigger one different from getting bigger pockets? It isn't. It is pay to win.
As a guy with standard edition, tarkov is absolutely pay to win. The extremely limited starting stash sizes makes falling into gear fear much more likely and generally makes learning the game more difficult as you have absolutely no room for error when it comes to gathering quest/hideout supplies. Additionally for someone learning the game, getting the beta case can take dozens of hours and stash level 2 even more. The monetization of the QOL aspects of tarkov make it actively a worse game, the question of design no longer becomes "How can we make Tarkov the most polished experience possible" it becomes "Oh is a quest bad, well you can pay to avoid the need for extra rep. Oh are you having difficulty getting materials for early quests/hideout upgrades, well you can pay to get a better secure container". The solution to many QOL problems just becomes "Buy the several hundred dollar edition" rather than improving tarkov for everyone. I would not be surprised if in the future QOL features like higher quality interactable maps, quests item lists or UI improvements be locked behind a paywall, with online alternatives being cracked down on. I agree with you that BSG should use cosmetics to monetize their game, though given their track record I doubt they'll be able to implement them cleanly. This QOL monetization may not matter for the exact instant two players are shooting each other, but makes getting into the game exponentially more difficult and is what I believe to be the main reason tarkov remains relatively niche. It is a fantastic and unique gaming experience, but so many people rightfully do not want to either deal with abysmal QOL, or shell out several hundred dollars for a video game in beta. All the pitfalls of learning the game are made much deeper when all you have is a 10x28 stash and an alpha container. Imagine how much more popular the game would be if the stash size was slightly larger, meaning new players could experiment more and learn what items are needed for certain quests without feeling the need to sell absolutely everything which isn't immediately useful. (For the record I'm Canadian and 150$ USD is 206$Cad, EOD was several hundred dollars where I live)
Personally, I think Tarkov is pay to win, but in a very indirect way (this includes both EOD and Unheard). What I mean is that both editions give you very expensive shit that you don't need to pay for (Enlarged stash, containers, and cases such as junkboxes and weapon cases). All of those stated are expensive as hell and very time consuming to get. Through an edition, you can get these from the start. This means that all that money you would be spending on these items can now be used to buy better ammo, guns, and armor which can in turn give you an advantage in game. This is obviously not as bad as other games, but it's still a problem. I think the whole "is Tarkov pay to win" debate is silly.
ANY buyable item or perk (other than cosmetics) obtainable through deluxe editions or dlc/microtransactions that a f2p or standalone edition player doesn't get or only through grind is a P2W scummy mechanic, this include bigger stash and camouflage
hey im a standard edition player and im gonna be honest and disagree entirely with you. im definitly not paying 250 for unheard of but i also didnt get eod because i missed when they were cancelling eod but jesus it may look like its only ever smaller advantage but its not, it slowly stacks up one after the other, creating a bigger advantage in general. i mean you spent 10 minutes going over advantage to advantage to advantage, its pay to win and not by small amount either (i still think eod is a pretty big advantage aswell besides the secure container like the stash size)
Almost every argument people had against the Unheard Edition also applied to EOD which they had no issue with. There were a few crazy additions like that SCAV thing and the Avengers Call in which I guess didn't end up happening? But the real crux of it was people having a cry because they no longer had the best version, with the advantages over standard accounts that it always had. Whole thing was a mess but we got some good changes out of the backlash so I'm happy with that, I just wish people were more honest. If it was $10 more none of this would have happened, people would have just bought it and told the standard accounts to cry less. Biggest advantage it added imo was the SCAV junkbox at the start of the game. Holy shit not having to deal with a stash full of random hideout bullshit from day 1 will be a new world.
This game is 100% p2w, If you are going to seriously play tarkov for more than 2 or 3 wipes than you need to have the head start from eod or unheard. It is a comically wide gap that the average standard edition player wont close for like a month or two. It is the equivalent of being born into an upper middle class family vs being born into a crack house, Sure you can overcome the differences but it will be tons of hard work and most importantly IT WILL SUCK. Even disregarding what "winning tarkov" even means since collector is pretty unrealistic for most players having fun is what matters and needing to pay to have substantially more fun at the start of wipe which is what most people are here for just sucks and is enough to qualify it as P2W for me and most other players.
Pay to win is having an advantage over other players , it doesnt mean if it is "in fight" in general. Yes , you arent going to lose the fight but that gun you got you're gonna have to sell because you have 0 inventory space. Try playing a wipe with standard edition , you dont even have CMS you have to use painkillers to run across the map
8:23 Speaking of the containers for standard edition: you can trade Beta container(3x2) from Peacekeeper LVL2 early game (if you find needed items(or you can buy them from flea lol)). So standard edition have a more feelable progression trough out the wipe. As a poor BEAR operator i played standard edition for 7 years and pointed for myself major milestones like getting Beta, then stash lvl2, then Epsilon, which made my journeys much more enjoyable because i was able to acknowledge everything that i achieve. Now i got Unhinged edition and this acknowledgement gone since i have every milestone i marked for myself before. I literally paid to ruin this feeling of achieving something that i had. In my opinion standard edition is the way the game feels the best to progress trough. So next wipe i'm going zero to hero without the container
i 100% agree. I think standard edition progression is the way everybody should experience EFT. you can feel the progression. that is how it was designed.
Ah, UA-camrs/Streamers are back to glazing BSG despite the Unheard Edition bullshit. The extra Storage Boxes are absolutely huge P2W things, yes they don't provide a direct advantage in a PvP fight, but the Scav Junkbox is usually the first thing an average player saves up for in the beginning, so saving around ₽2M is pretty big, and that's just the Junk box, add a few more ₽xM for the other items.
I been hunting a bigger secure container since i started, ill never be good enough to get the kappa but im still on alpha and really feeling the squeeze of only 2 x 2 slots
They're all p2w on a macro scale. 1000 players of average skill with unheard will almost always have a statistically significant increase in win rate over a wipe
Streamers/UA-camrs opinion on this stuff is so hard to trust. You have such a crazy vested interest this game continuing. It's literally some of y'all's whole career. Most of you would have nothing without it.
Stash space gives you a pretty huge early advantage as it indirectly lets you level faster and have more money. Whether or not the game is pay2win depends on whether or not having more money and equipment and advancing faster counts as an advantage.
Tarkov isnt exactly FULL Pay2Win... But its more like "Indirect Pay2Win" which ends up being P2W in the first place. And there is ALOT of Indirect P2W in Tarkov.
TLDR Yes, you skip a lot of time and effort, therefore u skip a lot of struggle, "oh but u can unlock everything but pve mode" thats just deep copium oh and also being able to hoard loot in the stash saves up a lot "unnecessary" of grind, once you play on a UH account you just cant handle playing on a Standard account anymore you are gonna be feeling that you are doing extra extre EXTRA stuff just to start in the "base-line"
I think it's more like "Pay 2 get called an idiot" imo if we're referring to the Unheard Edition. If you wanna play offline, get a Standard Copy and then install SPT, saves you 210 bucks...
As a Standard Acount owner since 2019-2020 this argument is hilarious. None of this got brought up until alllllll (the majority btw like the brainrot Star Citizen Ship owners) of players that are EOD starting crying about Unheard... you all have had pay2win since day one with your 100-150$ edtion. Stop trying to justify it lmao. You paid to have a EDGE against other people. Short awnser you get better ammo/armor/guns/attachments and can get into and out of raids wayyyy faster than Standard, so please just stop justifying it. It only seems correct because of the Star Citizen effect the majority went thru by buying the more expensive edition due to the hardcore grind of this game. Standard is a minority amd since EOD is gone it will stay a minority most likely.
the bigger pockets is an actual thing, early wipe if you and someone else had the exact same ak, went head to head, no armor, rig, backpack, etc, the guy who can fit another whole ass mag in his pockets is gonna fucken win
You can brush off all of the tiny advantages as not being impactful by themselves, but those advantages accumulate, a bunch of 1% advantages added together will make someone 10-20% better, which in the top levels of play where the differences between each player is minimal to none can easily be the deciding factor. So is it pay to win? Absolutely, but paying won't give you the decisive advantage over someone better than you, it'll just make you better than anyone else at your skill level.
Couldn’t you apply the “he didn’t win the fight because he had bigger pockets” line of logic to the secure container? Never-mind the fact that Tarkov isn’t just a PVP shooter and advantages in areas that aren’t PVP are still advantages.
1:56 your rep with traders does affect stuff now it affects how much you can purchase at one time which means if you have a higher rep, you can buy more ammo or more propatoll from therapist
i played standard edition for 4 wipes. I then upgraded to EoD. i can honestly say: the advantage is HUGE! and I really mean HUGE! you can pretty much ignore any questing for trader levels. you get better ammo and better gear A LOT faster! heck you dont even have a CMS on standard edition account… Oh, and by the way, not needing to upgrade stash to Lvl4 saves you basically 50Mill Rubles… Pay2Convenience, Pay2Headstart or Pay2Win… it is all the same.
Bigger stash absolutely makes a difference gameplay-wise, not only because of not having to play tetris, getting into raids faster, but also allowing you to hoard all the quest items ensuring your faster quest progression. Skills also are not useless, Bolt action for obvious questline progression, you also need hideout management 5 for the Library, which again will allow you to progress a bit faster. Plus, with Unheard you get the Lucky scav box. On paper these may seem like small things, but these accumulate fast and give players, especially min-maxing sweats a considerable advantage.
Tell me you're not a Tarkov player without telling me, holy shit dude you have almost no clue what you are talking about. The whole point of the wipe in most players eyes is the reset and the race that follow. The race to level and quest faster than most people, to gear up faster and HOLY FUCK you have no clue how INSANELY BIG those 3 bolt action rifle skills are when it comes to the overall picture of questing. As for the stash spaces, pocket spaces and secure container, these all give an insane advantage to the race, you can loot more stuff, hold more stuff in your stash, you could bring more items out with you and leave less for the person that kills you, like keeping your CMS kit early while putting some keys in your ass or m855a1 that the other person otherwise would've gotten. You can also save just flat 2.2 million rubles on only having to buy at most 2 scav cases, when a person with the normal version of the game may need 3 or 4 and he has to sell off stuff anyways because his stash is full. All of these things give you an extereme advantage to a wipe (TO THE GAME) for 90% of the players.
people really see it as a race? i know people trying to get kappa early on do but ive never met a normal player that sees early wipe as a race to questing. just that early wipe means they dont have to run the same boring kits with the same meta ammo.
Bro all the stuff you said "isnt really gameplay" is all apart of the tarkov experience, like playing Tetris and choosing a kit to run and worrying about losing the kit, more space more kits more health packs more ammo more grenades yknow dude? Youre such a sellout for bsg why are you defending them
this video is pointless. just because you say something like a bigger inventory won't give you a combat advantage it doesn't mean it's not part of the game. take out all the looting and go play some milsim if you think it's not part of the game. looting is half of this game, you can't just ignore it
played 2 wipes not looting with my pmc but only with my scav, didn't change how i played cause the skill isn't affected by pockets contrary to what others believe
This is "Unheard" of
AHAHAH funny
We have achieved PEAK comedy
Yes 🗿@@DirkTheDaringDnD
@@DirkTheDaringDnD this level of comedy has been UNSEEN
🥁🥁💥
The sniper skill itself isn't an advantage in PVP, but it gets you to level 7 faster, which gets to level 10 faster, which unlocks good ammo crafts and Lightkeeper questlines
Not to mention you need level 7 bolt action sniper skill for Wet Job part 6. Annoying to get there if you don't enjoy using bolties much.
well every skill level u have means your guns behave better LMAO so its still advantage
Also isn’t there still a quest for bolt actions at lvl 3?
@@jos7171 No, they removed that quest. Used to be Tarkov Shooter part 5 or something right?
@@1512125 that's a completely different quest, wet job 6 wasn't changed
Try playing standard edition with 4 slots of secure container and having to buy meds every raid.
It's fine, since you get beta container fairly quickly. Stash space is more of an issue, since you want to keep loads of stuff for hideout upgrades and questing + gear you got
@@Fellente What do you consider "fairly quickly"?
@@Fellente "fairly quickly" lol, lmao even
@@sidecat5315 Beta container is sold by Peacekeeper level 2, which requires level 14 - and you unlock flea market at 15, from which you can just buy everything needed to buy the Beta container. If can't even get to level 15 and save some roubles, then you'd be just as shit at the game regardless of which edition you own. Yes, it is actually "fairly quickly".
Leviticus coping so hard to defend this game when standard edition took 5 times longer to do just everything
My biggest problem with everything from a standard edition account gamer is because of the bigger secure container from both eod and unheard. I’ve lost fights due to not having a splint/other medical while using beta/alpha container. Gamma is pay to win this game has been pay to win since the absolute very start
i wonder how much money you lose throughout the wipe from having to put medkits/ammo/paracord in your rig instead of the container
@@sigataros I swear the last wipe I played in PVP I have to have lost a few mil at least alu splints ammo meds valuable/hideout items that where judged as less valuable than something I did have in my container it has to be millions. It’s less of a problem now that I main PvE and already rushed punisher six
@@sigataros that is very much person to person because if your good enough you can just roll other people then u will rarely have to use meds and if u do its not any expensive ones
is not about how big an advantage is, paid advantage is pay to win advantage.
Yeah I think he missed the entire point of the wipe cycle. everyone with the p2w gets a massive head start and at the beginning of the wipe that big stash and having space for 2 whole mags it's unfair. For money to be the limiting factor of in-game progress or features is P2W. Pay to Win: involving or relating to the practice of paying to get weapons, abilities, etc. that give you an ADVANTAGE over players who do not spend money. P2W has nothing to do with how many fights you win, just because you killed someone who was P2W doesn't mean that they aren't paying to win
depends on your definition of pay to win, he has decided to make the more narrow definition for it which is completely fine imo.
@@salty7922so EoD was p2w first lol yal make no sense, stop bitching
@@DoubleGBros yeah, eod is pay to win tf are you on about?
@@DoubleGBroseod is p2w of course
You look me in the eyes and tell me the ability to ignore most Jaegor tasks (for hideout and LL4) isn't P2W as FUCK.
Yeah I was thinking the same
Jaeger LL4 barely makes a difference for anything at all.
Sure, grinding Jaeger LL4 on a standard account is awful, but he doesn't actually sell anything useful - and the only hideout upgrade he's needed for is water collector 3, which itself is only needed for booze generator (slow, small, consistent profit) and bitcoin farm level 3 (which if you even have more than 25 GPUs to put into it, you already don't need more money).
@@JeffJeffington66 AXMC.
@@ClaytorYurnerocool is it that much of a difference if i put m62 in your chest or 338 FMJ
@@paradoxuscz7337 M62 at least won't reliably one-tap or get sent 500m+ accurately. AXMC is kind of a meme, the real meat of Jaeger LL4 is the SICC barter and access to thermals.
i swear to god every tarkov player has Stockholm syndrom they keep getting beaten but get up and defend the company
Same in the War Thunder sphere, we finally got a road map of the changes Gaijin promised, but the biggest one still hasn't been added after iirc a year. They have done many changes to "fix" the broken nature of the ingame economy, but it's still a grindfest, and they haven't been listening to the community very well on recent changes, so some people have been wanting to do another review bomb to make Gaijin actually listen for once.
i mean how dare people criticize the million dollar game company
-definetly not a hardcore shill
God*
@@brandonlee747 not everyone is Christian "god(s)" exists in theology
@@meerbee2910 listen bro. I'm going to be real with you. I do not care what you have to say. Why are you speaking for another man ? That is not your place. If you are swearing to God, you are swearing to a specific God. He didn't say I swear to the gods. So take the cock out of your mouth and mind your business.
As a standard edition player, I respectfully disagree. Having an expanded stash size and free storage boxes right off the bat does have an effect on gameplay. P2W in this game doesn't necessarily have to only be about gunplay, but overall progression (hideout, traders, wealth, etc)
i remember when i was grinding for tier 2 jaeger for way too long and when i got eod i just had to level up and sell him stuff
basically eod is kinda op
Yeah mostly p2w at the start of a wipe though, It dramatically decreases the amount of raid time you are getting in due to the tetris, which in turn dramatically reduces your progression which allows you to acquire better gear. I don't think I need to say Gear = Better chance to survive and kill others.
Absolutly ! Also gamma pouch is super super p2w
@@powercore9277 exactly my point
As it happens with any game with character progression, a small advantage at the beginning creates a snowball effect that results in a much greater advantage later on, and things just keep getting worse with the inclusion of Unheard edition which lets players save millions of rubles that would have to be spend on containers like scav boxes, and also with the Arena linking which gives players an absurd amount of experience so they quickly reach the level needed to unlock max level traders. People who claim that there is no pay to win in Tarkov are simply copping-out to the fact that they paid money to receive gameplay advantages, so they keep pretending it's not a big deal.
I feel like ignoring the fact that progression is helped by having more expensive editions, therefor an advantage in gameplay over other players is entirely ignored. If you can have more stash space for more weapons armor items for progress/quests to fast pace your progression, this is an advantage, even if minor. and any-even SLIGHT advantage is pay to win. it doesn't matter how minor.
the term "Pay to win" is not literal, it has always meant paying for gameplay change over other players. even if it's just stash lines it is an advantage.
Agreed entirely
generally i agree, but the thing is that you as a player will never notice or know. It could very well just be somebody grinding couple hours every day. I think that they need to have consistent income one way or another, at the end of the day they are a business with people they have to pay every month and having a game which only generates 50$ out of one user for the entire game life is not sustainable. I would rather have this type of stuff in the game, than skins or lootboxes that dont fit into eft at all, but other companies utilize.
The term is loose and is not hard defined,no matter how much you want it to be otherwise. He stated at the start what his view is on it as far as parameters go. Youre free to disagree,of course. But dont act like youre the law on what p2w means.
@@DokikLP Yeah, this is better than skins, although slightly.
@@xSintex yes, actually, by definition "Pay 2 Win" means the process of spending real money to get an advantage in game. You can try to bend over backwards to argue with it and say "its only a loose definition that just so happens to be agreed upon by 9/10 sources" but that's silly. Tarkov players just need to own up to the fact that its pay to win and that they're fine with it cause they'd rather be able to skip few annoying Jaeger quests or hold onto more kits (which noone will blame you for). It's pay to win but we've all accepted it for years cause devs needed money and people wanted to enjoy themselves. Just stop with denying this shit, cause that's embarrassing.
-higher skills
-bigger containers
-higher trader rep
-better starting equipment
-more starting cash
-bigger stash size
and now
-SPT (with friends)
- bigger pockets
-more flea market slots
-even bigger stash sizes
yes, tarkov is p2w.
Considering that nothing here actually gives you an advantage in a pvp scenario, it's pay for convenience
@@aenodarr7936 all of the stacked advantages you get set you up completely for a much smoother early wipe which sets you up for the entire wipe. pretending it's merely convenience is silly. i was struggling to decide what loot i had to sell or discard while my friends with EOD were hoarding 50 kits with room to spare and making more cash, combined with the better trader rep being able to take better equipment in far earlier because they did not have to stick with shitty RNG loot quests to get further on.
@@lmao.3661 skill issue
@@dankbonkripper2845 yeah real skill issue being punished for success while others got by fine because they paid more.
@lmao.3661 "punished for success" if you were successful, you'd have items and weapons cases. Items case are 5 x 5 and give you over the double the space. Weapons cases, Mag cases, ammo cases give you triple or even quadruple the space (at the same cost everyone follows of only storing specific things). You get access to these items extremely early. You also can dismantle weapons, taking off the handle alone literally halves weapon sizes. I have standard edition, I'm not punished for success, I am rewarded.
I'm pretty much with you everytime, but this time you really missed, truth is in a game like tarkov where progression is key, depending which version you buy you get a significant advantage towards your wipe progression, it might not be like a golden one shot bullet, but you get a great head start too in early wipe, not counting the secure container advantage, rep advantage, overall stash availability, you don't need to get a rocket launcher to be paying for an actual advantage in such a game where a single raid is just a part of the entire game experience.
Edit: I also forgot to mention you save millions of roubles in early wipe since you don't have to upgrade the stash size with EoD or Unheard
Exactly. I'm so glad I wasn't the only one who thought this.
Thank you for having a sensible real take on this, thought I was crazy.
If you pay to have an advantage on your first raid on the start of the wipe - the game has pay to win elements.
If you pay to have faster progression that allows you to have better gear than other players at your level at the first days of the wipe - the game has pay to win elements.
If you pay to have extra space in your secure container that allows you to bring in extra high tier ammo, full stack of stims, the best kind of meds - stuff that otherwise you wouldn't bring with you every raid because of the risk of losing it - than yeah the game is pay to win.
Depends how you look at Pay to Win definition.
Like it was introduced first to me with Web browser game, where not having premium account/buying special upgrades etc. Meant you had 0 chance to compete with person who did use it.
So at least for me, P2W means:
1. I have no chance to compete with person who spend money (He has advantage which i can't overcome on my own, however in FPS it's diffrent, cause we can compete with skill etc. especially Tarkov where you can kill almost any1 with anything)
2. There are things which i can't get, without spending money. (Here we can argue, cause like Gamma is not obtainable, but Kappa is, however it's too difficult for most ppl)
All other things, so gear/stash/cases/pockets are obtainable via playing or very similar, but not as big SC (i mean Epsilon).
So according to my experience i never said EFT is P2W, more like P4convience or Pay to gain advantage.
HOWEVER during Unheared Drama i was really mad, cause even if i own EoD, BSG was always saying that "everything will be obtainable via playing", meanwhile back then they did make pockets/radio "exclusive" for Unheard.
@@niewiarygodny6853 To me this is like saying "I wasn't cheating, I only toggled my wallhacks on for a few seconds instead of for the whole raid". If you get any notable advantage in gameplay after paying up, it's pay to win whether you get invincibility or if you just get a few extra inventory slots to start with. Maybe the latter might not literally make you always win over standard edition players, but the idea is there; pay to get an advantage.
Also, a player with the standard edition can indeed grind up to the level of unheard. However, until they get to the point where they're equal, they're at a disadvantage. If both a standard and unheard edition player have about the same skill/playtime/luck, the unheard player will always be ahead anyway.
@@cassidy8307 I understand your point and will not challange it, cause it's fine to have diffrent opinions :P.
I grew up, when web browser been super popular and thats how i look at P2W, if someone calls EFT P2W it's fine, i understand, i just don't see it like it.
Cause standard defitnion can still have fair fights vs Unheared/EoD edtion at any stage of the wipe.
Overall, P2W is or can be a very extensive definition and sometimes (as in this case) you stretch it, even if it does not fit in 100%.
Thats why i used to use either:
- Pay4Convience (Bigger stash) - Going further, does it mean Diablo 4 is P2W because you can buy extra storage? Doubt any1 would call it like this :P
or
- PayToGainAdvantage (Which is Gamma, even if Beta/Epsilon is quite easy to get, so it's not that ppl have 4 slots till end of the game. Then 3?-4? Sets of gear, which may last those 4 raids if someone was unlucky and died, trader rep)
Cause still. P2W for me - Gives you something you can't achive via playing and you have 0 chance to compete with ppl who do spend money.
So if you look at my justification.
Is EFT still more like P2W, P4Convience or Pay2GainAdvantage?
Edit -> Like Lost Ark was literally Pay2Win game, you could just "buy" progress which is still non existant in Tarkov and i would never place those 2 titles near each other :p
@@niewiarygodny6853pay to win
@@lolasdm6959 SO you place Lost Ark (you could literally buy progress/gear via money), at the same spot as Tarkov. Gotcha.
Or Diablo4 (Cause you can buy extra storage).
Thats fine, i am just open minded with such things and if there are other definition i prefer to use those ^^.
In feel like bsg is gonna make another oopsie and cause the whole community to lash out
I’m already seeing a £500 edition releasing any time soon.
Escape From Tarkov is a good product in the wrong hands.
@@austinjohnson762x39the game itself still has a lot of issues tho
@@austinjohnson762x39yeah, it's got a lot of potential but BSG can't see that, (also doesn't help that it uses the unity engine)
Nikita is a a$$hole so yes he will.
@@MalRak02 Unity is a very capable engine, it makes it much easier to code things into the game then things like unreal and while it takes more time to get better graphics it's still possible, as tarkov itself proves
If you have a larger stash that means you can store more gear, meaning every loss you take is *less* than if someone who doesn't have it takes the same loss. Someone with standard is losing a *lot* more than someone with unheard of or even the other tiers. Not even to mention the tons of free gear and currency each version over standard has. Literally the *only* difference to f2p models is that you pay up front and have it given to you each wipe. Otherwise it's the exact same advantage as buying boosters and in game currency in other titles. I have many reasons I choose to pay spt over live whenever I do play the game, this sort of thing is just another tick on that list.
Exactly
I work all day, I’ll take the upgraded account to help take on the try hards and sweats.
So basically you're the kind of player who is crying in the main menu just because you lose a gun with a 50k suppressor lol
gamma is OP aswell, i can hold 9 slots instead of 4. if i grab dogshit loot its 90K in my wallet if i die. for standard its only 40.
unheard doesn't buy you skill lol
People always look at micro gameplay without considering macro, p2w can be something that just makes players progress at a faster rate to be at an advantage against players with similar time investment and skill levels, and not just moment-to-moment gunfights.
With how much the P2W argument focuses on micro gameplay, I'd bet good money BSG could release the *Unfathomable Edition* that gives players immunity to hunger/thirst and a significantly reduced trader restock time (now possible since global limits arent a thing anymore) and people would still defend it because "Those effects wont make you automatically win fights."
That is true enough but we are a dozen wipes in. So really, it's negligible at this pt. The true advantage is time and knowledge. Which basically the whole playerbase has rn. Ppl already get a max traders in 1-4 days. If you no life this game, it doesnt matter where you start at. You will have an advantage over those that dont. Many ppl can 500k-1,2,3m from zero to hero. So such players wouldnt matter for their speed run being marginal faster. It'd only benefit the semi new player the most. Who knows a lil, but not enough to speed run through 50 quest chains. Unheard edition honestly shouldnt be in the game. Really a pointless edition for ecosystem. Ppl should really learn that it is dumb to attempt to milk something infinitely. Eventually stuff dries out. No such thing as an infinite singular cashcow.
Expanded pockets can be a pretty tangible advantage in the quests that force you to use scav vests. Normally if you see a guy with a scav/security vest you know he only has two, maybe three, mags to work with. Which is knowledge you can potentially use to your advantage. But with unheard he can have up to five.
what's the real deal is that you can run dirt cheap kits like a shotgun or an ak with 1 spare mag which is gonna be so convenient throughout the wipe
who checks what vest people are wearing? if you have time to do that.
you have time to line up a headshot
Gotta call foul on this one. maybe the rep gate is worthless to people that can do quests easily but knowing that you can put some stuff on the back burner makes a big difference. Pay to win doesn't just mean direct gunfight comparisons
Eod has over standard
Upgraded stash from the get go= more storage space BUT also skipping the stash size requirements to upgrade hideout parts, saving 11 MILLION rubles and 200k EUROS (not including items), kinda a big deal
.15 rep, seems small but thats around 10 daily's PER trader, also allowing you wiggle room in early questing, if you fall behind you can bounce back faster. and if you focus on levels thats faster LL
You straight up start with lvl4 armour and an MDR, instantly putting you at advantage over a standard lvl 1
Secure containers obviously
and your pockets argument is weak, the pockets may not help in a direct gunfight, unless you know, they can fit 2 extra mags on them and thus have more available ammo no matter what rig they have (throw 2 60s and that's 120 more BP they can sling at you). But also those pockets let him get more loot, which let him buy better gear, which helped him kill you.
This whole thing sounds like some serious copium
if the higher editions give you in game Items/gear/rep/time saves that's PAY TO WIN, if they give cosmetic only its not PAY TO WIN.
kinda simple
I am a player of Tarkov, but not the usual one, I play SPTarkov.
From my experience, you are fairly correct, the options of guns you have to buy at the start and the firepower you can get does make a difference.
Even just the extra starting cash will usually allow you to get better stuff for the first firefight.
@@CMDRSweeper I feel you, i jumped to SPT last wipe and never looked back
Its no different from mobile games that have real life timers for actions to complete. The timer just being an artificial obstacle so you buy premium or gems to skip the timer.
Tarkov deliberately waste your time with having to play tetris in the stash, just to upsell you stash upgrades. The whole concept is stolen from mobile games.
This comment right here. Glad I have the same opinion as other people. This video is full of copium.
He’s not saying it’s not P2W because by definition it is, but none and I mean absolutely none of these will make or break a fight, and at the end of the day that’s the only interaction you’ll have is fighting these people, what they have outside of raid doesn’t effect you if you’re seriously saying that the guy who can afford 2 60s of BP won’t also be able to afford a rig to carry it, you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about
I bought EoD in 2018, back around the 0.10 beta and have always been for the opinion that any version upgrade of the game over the base copy is Pay 2 Win. Cope all you want about "but you can lose all your items in raid!!!11!!!1“, but a larger stash and larger secure container is by definition is giving you some kind of advantage - Pay 2 Win.
No
Yes
What people like to miss is they associate Pay to win with outright PVP advantage. However all of the things the higher editions give you literally makes you have an advantage in pvp since higher gear can be acquired regularly easier. This advantage is noticeable and not mildly but pretty obviously.
This is the objectively correct answer, yes.
Exactly. Like how not every cheat is an aimbot. But hey, I guess being able to suck up loot through walls isn't cheating because it gives you no combat advantage.
No new leviticus video in 16 minutes, hopefully he hasn't abandoned the channel.
His account unfortunately got hacked that's why he hasn't posted since forever
I think an issue to consider is that the extra slots, cases, and pockets allows for more loot to be retained, leading to more money, better loot over time, and quests being completed more often. All of that combined definitely leads to an accumulated advantage.
It feels like a bigger stash would help in raid by speeding progression by a lot, and thus having better gear than non paying players. that sounds like a big advantage!
Agreed
Honestly, playing with SPT and such, stash size is one of the biggest determining factor on my ease of raids.
Default stash I can, if I'm lucky, keep one set of backup gear early on before I get my cases.
Once I have a scav case, I can probably squeeze two in easily enough.
But even with that, it's a huge pain. Bad luck on two raids means I'm out of kit, and I'm going in with next to nothing.
And gear is the single biggest determining factor between victory and defeat in Escape.
yeah eod gives stash lvl 4 off the bat. no more grinding for tons of items and millions of roubles.
u can buy stash lines to add more.
u can buy unheard to get 5 mill worth of boxes to add even more loot.
and ingame ofcourse u can now also get a weapon rack and mannequin. as well as trophy shelf. my fav space to stash my lions and cats.
Stash size does have an effect on gameplay. It does affect PVP. Everything in Tarkov ties together; it was designed that way.
If you don't think the size of your stash affects your ability, try playing your next wipe with just 4 lines of space. It's going to have an effect on your survival rate.
yes, i don't know why this guy tried to hide the fact that bigger stash = pay to win, it's clearly pay to win when you can get rid of annoying inventory management waste of time, bigger stash = less time management , more raid, faster progression and more money.......
@@minorishimizu4241 Plus you get to save more items which means more to sell on the flea when you unlock it, or less you have to spend buying hideout upgrades or re-questing for items when you can just have them saved from earlier instead.
pretty much the video is "Unheard dosent make you do more damage so its not PTW" wich is acceptable in any other game but iin a game where every item counts shit its very notice , just beacouse its not better for fights doesnt mean its not PTW unless you only care about fights, tell me right now that staritng with 10 lines of stash 500000k and 1 base m4 is the same as triple the stath quadruple money better guns and more storage on your pmc
it's the same. you're going to lose it all, re-get it, and lose it all again in the exact same manor. what you start with makes no difference in the game loop. everyone ends up where they're game knowledge, skill level, and luck takes them after week two of wipe lol.
@@johnathandurbala1341 THIS
Disagree. The only thing that matters here is buffed lvl for traders, cause you can get to the desired lvl a little earlier then others. How much money or how big of a stash your opponent has doesnt affect your fight with him at all.
minor point about the rep, new players are less likely to be keeping up with quests and are more likely to not have the rep required before hitting the level requirement.
source: myself, when I was new, I always hit the rep requirements about 3 levels late.
it's not a huge thing, but it is something.
Not only new players but every owner of standard edition, quests are boring af, doing the same thing everytime when game wipes is not fun, EoD players can get faster to the best part of the game...
most of the time i get the rep from daillies so yeah agree.
the 3 levels in bolt actions is actually quite good because of quests that require bolt levels, you can skip a lot of raids with bolties thanks to that
instead of dialing back the requirement on the quest they release a paid option to make it suck less l0l
I was thinking the same thing and I’m surprised he didn’t mention it in the video. Each wipe, I find myself bringing a spare mosin and reload it relentlessly to level up my boltie levels lol
See it's not pay to win. You're just buying many advantages which allow you to win.
The mark of the unheard wasn't pve-only on release and 6 scav rep is grindable in like 2 days. Scavs routinely aggro from 200-ish meters out so it was handy. I feel it's wrong to give Nikita a pass because he caved to the backlash. Don't forget about him thinking it's fair to put in an "avengers assemble" item as well. As someone with both an eod and standard edition account, they get nothing more from me and I'm spt-only until they do something to curb the cheating problem a bit.
Its working in pvp too
It is the continuous inch towards complete and total cash grab and pay to win that makes me nervous.
Its not p2w baby stop the crying
@@sepachortels6366yes it quite literally is stop defending a company who lied to you mislead you and is now putting content they told you would come free behind a paywall
it'd be kinda funny doe in a dark sorta way tbh
@@smellyreshala5378 where is the lies? cuz its not in the room with us
Hey man those stash lines are deadly. I have eod and my one buddy has a standard account. His stash makes me want to walk barefoot on glass covered in lime juice and salt. After every raid it takes him 30 minutes to figure out how to fit whatever he got out of raid into his various bags, rigs and other assorted containers and shit. Them stash lines would save him.
Friend of mine had eod for years and then got me into trakov. I got basic version. At first, I was doing shenanegans with rigs to save space. My eod friend checked my stash and he was shocked with how much stuff I had packed and that it was even possible.
Years came by. I eventually realised that I waste too much time with storage and I started to sell most of the loot.
Then I've looked into my eod friend stash and there were DOZENS of csa and other rigs filled with random crap like cheap-ass 30 round mags, bandages and random items for ragman quests, just in case. But he was not going to start ragman anyway.
I still wonder if this is my fault 😅
Yeah stash lines are big.
this is literally me
Something is weird about obese people constantly talking about salt
@@sepachortels6366 dawg what 😭😭
Yeah the fact you can pick up 1x2 items with extended pocket while being a nake* runner isnt broken sure 🙃 take the same risk as the other nake* runner, but earn more cause you pay more.
Scav vest quest. While someone suffers from having only two 1x2 pockets, someone else runs around as normal.
@@remix2822 yup, and its basically a free bank robber rig free every raid.
You can already put bigger items in your secure container, and a bank robber only costs like 10k. The only time the extra pockets ever actually matter is in making the scav vest quests easier to do, which is incredibly niche.
@@JeffJeffington66 there is A LOT of stuff that dont fit the secure.
@@JeffJeffington66 bank robber costs 10k EVERY TIME. Big secure containers are all end-game rewards.
Short answer: yes
Long answer: yes.
Respectfully disagree. Tarkov is pay to win and always has been. Secure containers being the obvious culprit. However, stash space, hideout advancement, are 💯 pay to win features IMHO. Pay to win isn't just about in raid stuff. It's about being able to progress faster, get money faster, store more, etc. that gives you in turn better gear against opponents in raids. The starting gear alone is huge pay to win. Can you kill them? Sure, but that does not negate the fact that it was pay to win.
This video feels a couple months late
Uhhh he did say he was a little late
Yeah nah, only time i'll disagree with you.
The editions over basic are pretty objectively pay to win.
Just the stash size and bigger container alone are immense. This is a game about looting, and about losing. One allows you to stock more stuff, the other allows you to dampen the loss significantly.
Hell, a standard edition player can't even stuff a surv-12 up their ass. Just an injector case means giving up 1/4th of your ass space as a standard user.
i've experienced this myself, being a standard edition user, playing with EoDs, they have an immense progression advantage, and progression advantage in EFT eventually translates into combat advantage.
I literally said this. Yes the secure containers are Pay-to-Win. I disagree on the stash cases as they have the same practical effect as additional stash lines.
@@leviticus1132 you underestimate the pain of having a small stash, its also unbelievably dumb to upgrade
@@howitzerkitsune yeah, it is literally cheaper to buy item cases than upgrade stash past lvl 2
@@leviticus1132 Levi you don't understand the pain of having to sell the items you get back in insurance because you don't have enough space in your stash.
@@leviticus1132 sad that you forgot the struggle...
To minimize bad practices because for a veteran player those advantages doesn't matter and saying that, it is not a big deal... kinda sad.
sunk cost fallacy
The best business decision nikita pulls out of his ass
Lol
best comment XD
Infinite wants
Limited resources
I think there is a thing you overlooked while talking about pockets. You can run smaller rigs or even go without them. Wich makes you lighter, wich makes you faster.
Extended pockets, bigger container and higher trader rep is all pay to win.
In this video the biggest metric for deciding what's pay to win is without a doubt, combat.
While you might come to think that these things are just quality of life and don't affect combat, they do.
With so many improvements to your quality of life like; saving money with no rigs by using pockets, bigger containers to get more money out if you die, easily leveling up traders giving you access to better gear for cheaper and lastly bigger stash giving you leeway for storing unnecessary amounts of gear.
While none of these affect combat itself, eventually you'll have made significant progress significantly faster giving you access to frequently using better gear then your opponents without any editions.
Making their experiences fighting you more challenging for them if we look at equipment alone.
The problem with QoL advantages is not that they make you win in PvP fights, its that it makes the entire game easier and less annoying. The game in pay to win not against other players but against the annoyance/difficulty of the game itself: in its annoyance with stash management, with questing, with in-raid loot. That is why the game is P2W, not because it will give an advantage against other people but that it gives you an advantage against the game itself that others may not have. Its the devs rewarding people that pay more with a less annoying and frustrating game.
It blurs the line between "Pay to be less annoyed" and "Pay to more easily beat the game", but at the end of the day in a game like EFT it boils down to the same thing.
I got killed by a level 31 on day 1 after the 0.15 wipe. He had 7000+ hours and I was under 2 hours. Fun gameplay.
These things that "aren't p2w cause they are PvE only" were introduced as PvP items as well and only got changed to PvE only after MAJOR community backlash and multiple Nikita replies that the community was wrong for how we were feeling. That was the issue. BSG are careless and see us as money bags to siphon money from and will only do it again.
The game is pay to win because it's easier to progress quickly with higher editions. If I put in 10 hours as standard I'm going to be nowhere near as far as 10 hours on EOD. The added stash size allows you to horde anything and everything you will ever need even for quests that are miles away. You also have much more room to store weapons and armor you might use later rather than being forced to sell it for scraps. That combined with the bigger secure container makes it so much easier to make money and save it on having to rebuy meds/weapons/armor every death.
In short having better editions allows you to get ahead of the general curve when it comes to levels and money which will then allow you to load into raids with better gear. Once you get to T3 traders that advantage is huge. It's the same as playing a T1 kit in arena against a T3 kit, you ain't gonna kill em 90% of the time.
ever since I took the spt pill I can actually play the digital entertainment product/service so called 'video game' and I finally feel as though my 50$+taxes was in fact, not wasted after 8 months of having spent it
ykno I am now completely deaf to terms such as "bsg" or "nikita" and am now completely at the mercy of "sain" and whomever spt veteran in the discord group who'll disregard everything I say and re-type the entire history of the project assuming I didn't read it because I started caring about tarkov more than 0.5 microseconds later than they did.
average spt greenleaf
I pirated the game
@@epicgamer-gm8oq based
The pockets are similar to the case, it allows you to either acquire more loot, or (because you have two 2x1 slots) carry full sized mags into raid without a rig. Obviously it's not going to "win you a fight" late game but it could definitely make a difference early game. Even just a standard rat run where all you do is run in and grab as much as possible with nothing on you now could be significantly more profitable. In terms of "PvP" (in quotes because more money = better gear), it probably won't immediately win you the fight, but in the long run, it will make a difference.
IDK man ı come from Quake, UT, CS, Insurgency etc. and in those games you pay for the game once and you are same level as everyone else. The only thing that can be p2w is cosmetics where some of them might be too good of a camouflage in certain maps aka Insurgency Sandstorm and pre-patch CSGO agent skins. I'd say its still p2w and downgrading it by saying things like, it doesn't affect pvp that much or its pay for convenience is bending down/lowering our standards and accepting these practices which ı whole heartedly disagree.
As a fellow EoD owner.. even EoD is P2W. I had a standard account for probably 300ish hours before my upgrade and I can tell you that the game was a LOT easier post upgrade than before. why? stash size meant I didn't have to sell decent items to make room for other needed items. the rep help we get with traders means that there are certain points that I can focus in on just playing the game rather than constantly having to worry about the grind. the weapons that you get to start a wipe are better and overall its a much calmer experience early wipe/ late wipe than a basic account is. Unheard is literally just better EoD and therefore... is pay to win. pocket size increase is actually a big deal to me as well because it means people can run 30 to even 60 rounds mags OUT OF THEIR POCKETS. obviously they are still risking the same gear but it makes things incredibly easier for those who have it vs those who don't. P2W does not always mean an exact advantage like... giving me 300 Bs rounds vs you getting 300prs. it can sometimes mean that you lowered the difficulty of the game which indirectly impacts the players around you.
*ANY* game that's PvP and allows you to pay for *ANY* advantage is pay to win. Tarkov is more pay to win now than it ever was before.
Pay2Win is a stupid phrase, it allows people like this guy to literally think it means paying to win, absolutely stupid.
Tarkov is a game about progression. Anything that makes progression easier ruins the game pretty much. Yes, EoD too.
If you doubt that tarkov is an MMO with progression at its core - imagine if tarkov had no wipes and game was pretty much a complete sandbox in regards to the gear and consumables. It be dead in a couple of months.
@4:42
The point isn't that someone has bigger pockets so they win, its that those bigger pockets let them extract with more value then someone with less pockets and so they have the potential to get more expensive gear faster
Its not about having more access to space during a fight, its how that access to more inventory space provides a small boon in resources that can stack up over time
Few thing wrong with the video:
-The sniper skill itself will outpace most other players to level 10
-You didnt mention the ammo like 7.62x54mm R PS gzh , 5.45x39mm BT gs (90 pcs.) or the 7.62x51mm M80 (60 pcs.) 5.56x45mm M856A1 4.6x30mm JSP SX
9x21mm BT gzh
-The weapon case and Junkbox can be sold for roubles from Traders
-You didn't mention starting money at all, its the only edition to have a starting 1000000 roubles 1000 Dollars and 500 Euros
-You didnt mention the high level armor like the NPP KlASS Bagariy plate carrier (Digital Flora) and WARTECH TV-115 plate carrier which literally stop bullets fresh wipe
These things on their own may not be pay to win per se but all of them together make the advantage more significant.
wrong
Exactly. Some people don't understand that things simply add up.
@@theldapperapple2382 and some people dont understand that theyre literally grasping at straws to justify their skill issue. The world continues to go around
@dankbonkripper2845 Not my problem, you don't know what you're talking about. I forgive you. I'm not going to agrue and be hateful. Have a good raid.
@@theldapperapple2382 something like stash size is bassicly irellevant once your good enough at the game since you will just win most fights and it doesnt matter.
Yes smaller stashes would technically lose more but that doesnt matter if you are consitent enough and can get those kits back.
Bigger pockets = more ammo without need to spend as many roubles on tactical rigs.
Bigger secure container = more ability to secure treasure items to minimize money loss if you die, also being able to actually bring a surv-kit without completely wasting it if you die not to mention other meds
Bigger stash + ammo case + weapons case + scav junk box = never having to get rid of a single quest item early due to lack of storage space, also being able to hold onto more sets of gear to go through when you die over and over.
Greater starting rep = leveled traders way earlier, you definitely over estimate how quickly the average player can get tasks done to gain rep I played in like 3 or 4 wipes and always got to level 15-20 without hardly completing signal part 1.
The reason there's more outrage about this now as opposed to 8 years ago with EOD is not views, first of all the game is far more popular than it used to be, there's simply more people to talk about it. Secondly, EOD was intended as an early supporter version for people who wanted to provide more funding for the game. Now that they're pushing for 1.0, adding an even more expensive version is just plain greedy and is a practice that should have gone away a long time ago when they had enough income.
This is coming from an EOD account owner, I have an unfair advantage over other players, Tarkov is pay to win. I wish I didn't get any bonuses for owning EOD. BSG are an awful company and their game should be boycotted entirely but most content creators don't seem to have a spine.
Fully agree. I enjoy tbis guys content, but he refuses to acknowledge criticism or even argue his point. The only comments he responded to were just memeing or agreeing. I don't like to use this word because it's overused, but He truly is a shill for sure. He can add up the costs just fine, but somehow, he can't see how a bunch of small advantages get bigger? Please. I hate seeing him play dumb. His arguments were, "You can't physically use storage space as a weapon" As if pvp is the only aspect of tarkov, or "its been p2w forever so who cares?" It's a child's mentality.
In case you guys are wondering this video was literally designed to generate comments through controversy. He formulates an argument with a holes in it on purpose so people argue in the comments section to boost engagement. Of course a game that cost $250 is going to be pay to win lol. People wouldn't pay for it unless it did give tangible benefits. The basis of the game is the mitigation and management of risk.
Paying for DLCs:
-decreases the amount of time players need to hit certain benchmarks that grant them access to gear with better kill potential
- eliminates the need to pay for meds and ammunition with a nine slot gamma
- nine slot gamma gives players more than twice the amount of space to exfil loot on a loss
- the massive stash size at the beginning of wipe means buyers don't have to spend Millions on Lucky scav junk boxes the first few days of wipe.
- increase stash size also means that buyers don't have to choose between here they would need to purchase anyway versus future Quest items.
The list goes on Ad infinitum.
Exchanging currency for a comparative advantage is by definition pay to win. Buyers pay for an advantage and get one in every way possible. It's like running a marathon naked and starving next to someone who paid $249.99 for the "Advanced Runner Pro Package" that get three Square meals, nike sponsorship, anabolic steroids, and a 20-ft head Start lmao. Get real.
I 100% consider increased stash space a major advantage.
Having more room for sets and loot is huge. Actually having guns and equipment, armors, grenades, helmets, the works, is massive.
Especially early on when you can't even acquire that stuff.
If I don't have space in my stash, I don't have that kit. It's that simple.
The difference then becomes having armor, versus not having armor.
And that is one of the biggest differences in PVP in Tarkov.
I'm on standard and my friend has eod. The amount of times i was struggling to just drop off the loose loot ive picked up in raid (while i still have the basic stash) while my friend has 10 kits of weapons + armors, helmets and headsets and spare space... EoD players saying stash space is not an advantage (especially early wipe) just haven't played without eod benefits for years and are in denial at this point cause they think it'd take away from their skill if they admitted its p2w
Brain issue. Become efficient. Lvl 1 stash is shit, but game is built fine on lvl 2. Which is 2nd tier of game editions.
@@BananaStefcio7 once your good enough you dont many kits.
objectively p2w is p4convenience. period. stash is the main mechanic of the game. more items = more money = more money = better guns = better guns = easier pvp.
this
more stash = more items = more money = better gear = better payday to the rat who 7mm'd your legs wearing a paca. p2w is not real in the practical gameplay loop that is tarkov lol. the ONLY genuine argument for p2w in EFT is if you were kappa/lightkeeper racing with a standard vs greater edition. Other than that, an above average player on a standard account will always do better than a below average player on an upgraded account.
Yes, but at the same time no, if we talk about Tarkov.
I mean with better edition you also get few extra guns and armors, which in current state of hitboxes have high chance to actually increase your chances to win or survive fight.
So i agree with SC/Stash/Rep, that those are either "P4convenience" or "Pay to gain advantage" (Like you die 20 times, always having those few meds in SC, instead of pockets, you save 20-40k per death, so those 20 deaths = to 1 good scav raid you don't need to do)
But those guns/armors make that this P2W line is thin. I personally never called Eft P2W but i do realise that many ppl will call EFT P2W.
+ Depends how you look at P2W too, like i always looked it as "Without buying things from shop, you have no chance to compete with other players" as it was true in old browser games, where you could instantly build buildings, build x at the same time with premium etc.
If General Sam taught me anything, it's that managing your stash and playing the flea market is the main game and PvP is just an optional mini game.
@@TerexJgeneral Sam will definitely tell you that the larger gamma container DEFINITELY helps with the ratting grind
I saw what you gain with Unhead through SPT, it's totally P2W. The 2 larger pockets alone are a crazy advantage over the life of a wipe. You get so much extra starting gear, including containers on top of the expanded stash. The rep bonus, especially on Fence, is a crazy boost for Scavs. I couldn't believe it. Now it makes so much sense why so many picked it up.
You conveniently left out the fact that people with bigger editions can buy more ammo and have longer insurance retention times. There are just so many things that stack up and end up in a definitive pay2win experience. If you don't acknowledge that, you're coping.
i think only eod got the more stuff from restock, longer insurance hold times and return times arent that big of a deal imo.
@@comic_the_ace Longer insurance is essentially 'just' additional stash place.
But the higher personal limits for ammo are arguably one of the worst additions. It directly impacts your ability to PvP and run certain guns.
so more items means that you're weightless i assume? so if i have more mags with more ammo in my big pockets will i be able to move as fast as you during the start of the wipe?
The main mechanic in Tarkov to get better gear is just being able to afford it, so everything that causes me to gain money faster is directly affecting my next gun fight. Bigger Pockets -> More Loot -> Better Equipment. Need to less questing -> less investment into quests -> more money for guns -> Better Equipment. Bigger Secure Container -> Loose less healing/whatever items on death -> more money - > Better Equipment.
As an EOD owner, i will straight up have better equipment even a few raids into the wipe than somoene with the exact same skill as me but only standard version and i will kill them in a gunfight with that better Equipment. Its Pay to Win and the only reason i still play this game is because there is no better alternative to it. But please, lets stop making excuses for it.
An ACTUAL unbiased description of tarkov
Usually I love your vids bro but this one is quite a huge miss. Specially in terms of stash, as somebody who plays standard edition, the stash ends up slowing down the progress by terrible amounts of time due to the constant need of sacrificing the loot for the sake of fitting everything into such a small space, specially when you already know how the game works - it's a life changer. A friend of mine with EoD can alwayd find extra space in his stash to save some rare item for the future hideout upgrade or for some annoying quest. As a result, he ends up getting through the quests faster, which impacts his level, unlocks him better stuff and just by level 20-30 there already is a visible gap in the quests completion and in the hideout upgrades between me and him
I do disagree with your take on the rep boost. Or at least, I want to point out that while Peacekeeper II is insanely easy to get too, Peacekeeper III is a massive leap. For players who buy into having higher trader rep, they only need to gain an additional 0.10 points to reach level III. Standard edition players need a whole 0.30 points. Couple that with the fact that standard edition players are going to finish Friend from the West Part II typically later, and some players might not have built up 0.10 rep by the time they're level 23.
also, I think that while EoD players cannot access their larger stash in-game, the overall benefits that come with more space for weapons, ammo, and meds (plus the gamma container), means that they're on average going to be more beefy than your usual standard edition player of the same level.
Pay for convenience IS pay to win. No if's or but's. You spend less time playing tetris, you have an easier time collecting loot. Percentages compound and 10 negligible and small things will in the span of a hundred thousand players decide fights. How is going from one secure container to a bigger one different from getting bigger pockets? It isn't. It is pay to win.
As a guy with standard edition, tarkov is absolutely pay to win. The extremely limited starting stash sizes makes falling into gear fear much more likely and generally makes learning the game more difficult as you have absolutely no room for error when it comes to gathering quest/hideout supplies. Additionally for someone learning the game, getting the beta case can take dozens of hours and stash level 2 even more.
The monetization of the QOL aspects of tarkov make it actively a worse game, the question of design no longer becomes "How can we make Tarkov the most polished experience possible" it becomes "Oh is a quest bad, well you can pay to avoid the need for extra rep. Oh are you having difficulty getting materials for early quests/hideout upgrades, well you can pay to get a better secure container". The solution to many QOL problems just becomes "Buy the several hundred dollar edition" rather than improving tarkov for everyone. I would not be surprised if in the future QOL features like higher quality interactable maps, quests item lists or UI improvements be locked behind a paywall, with online alternatives being cracked down on. I agree with you that BSG should use cosmetics to monetize their game, though given their track record I doubt they'll be able to implement them cleanly.
This QOL monetization may not matter for the exact instant two players are shooting each other, but makes getting into the game exponentially more difficult and is what I believe to be the main reason tarkov remains relatively niche. It is a fantastic and unique gaming experience, but so many people rightfully do not want to either deal with abysmal QOL, or shell out several hundred dollars for a video game in beta. All the pitfalls of learning the game are made much deeper when all you have is a 10x28 stash and an alpha container. Imagine how much more popular the game would be if the stash size was slightly larger, meaning new players could experiment more and learn what items are needed for certain quests without feeling the need to sell absolutely everything which isn't immediately useful.
(For the record I'm Canadian and 150$ USD is 206$Cad, EOD was several hundred dollars where I live)
Personally, I think Tarkov is pay to win, but in a very indirect way (this includes both EOD and Unheard). What I mean is that both editions give you very expensive shit that you don't need to pay for (Enlarged stash, containers, and cases such as junkboxes and weapon cases). All of those stated are expensive as hell and very time consuming to get. Through an edition, you can get these from the start. This means that all that money you would be spending on these items can now be used to buy better ammo, guns, and armor which can in turn give you an advantage in game.
This is obviously not as bad as other games, but it's still a problem. I think the whole "is Tarkov pay to win" debate is silly.
My words exactly
ANY buyable item or perk (other than cosmetics) obtainable through deluxe editions or dlc/microtransactions that a f2p or standalone edition player doesn't get or only through grind is a P2W scummy mechanic, this include bigger stash and camouflage
hey im a standard edition player and im gonna be honest and disagree entirely with you. im definitly not paying 250 for unheard of but i also didnt get eod because i missed when they were cancelling eod but jesus it may look like its only ever smaller advantage but its not, it slowly stacks up one after the other, creating a bigger advantage in general. i mean you spent 10 minutes going over advantage to advantage to advantage, its pay to win and not by small amount either (i still think eod is a pretty big advantage aswell besides the secure container like the stash size)
Exactly
Almost every argument people had against the Unheard Edition also applied to EOD which they had no issue with. There were a few crazy additions like that SCAV thing and the Avengers Call in which I guess didn't end up happening? But the real crux of it was people having a cry because they no longer had the best version, with the advantages over standard accounts that it always had. Whole thing was a mess but we got some good changes out of the backlash so I'm happy with that, I just wish people were more honest. If it was $10 more none of this would have happened, people would have just bought it and told the standard accounts to cry less.
Biggest advantage it added imo was the SCAV junkbox at the start of the game. Holy shit not having to deal with a stash full of random hideout bullshit from day 1 will be a new world.
This game is 100% p2w, If you are going to seriously play tarkov for more than 2 or 3 wipes than you need to have the head start from eod or unheard. It is a comically wide gap that the average standard edition player wont close for like a month or two. It is the equivalent of being born into an upper middle class family vs being born into a crack house, Sure you can overcome the differences but it will be tons of hard work and most importantly IT WILL SUCK. Even disregarding what "winning tarkov" even means since collector is pretty unrealistic for most players having fun is what matters and needing to pay to have substantially more fun at the start of wipe which is what most people are here for just sucks and is enough to qualify it as P2W for me and most other players.
The gamma case vs the alpha case. The standard account start with no CMS/Sur1 kit already punishing enough when you get stomach black out.
Bro with the 4K setup explaining why 6slot pockets are why he lost, he had a AK, P90, and a glock 18c and the opponent melees him
Pay to win is having an advantage over other players , it doesnt mean if it is "in fight" in general. Yes , you arent going to lose the fight but that gun you got you're gonna have to sell because you have 0 inventory space. Try playing a wipe with standard edition , you dont even have CMS you have to use painkillers to run across the map
1:32 enter abneydude running all black clothing to hide in trash piles
8:23 Speaking of the containers for standard edition: you can trade Beta container(3x2) from Peacekeeper LVL2 early game (if you find needed items(or you can buy them from flea lol)).
So standard edition have a more feelable progression trough out the wipe. As a poor BEAR operator i played standard edition for 7 years and pointed for myself major milestones like getting Beta, then stash lvl2, then Epsilon, which made my journeys much more enjoyable because i was able to acknowledge everything that i achieve. Now i got Unhinged edition and this acknowledgement gone since i have every milestone i marked for myself before. I literally paid to ruin this feeling of achieving something that i had. In my opinion standard edition is the way the game feels the best to progress trough. So next wipe i'm going zero to hero without the container
i 100% agree. I think standard edition progression is the way everybody should experience EFT. you can feel the progression. that is how it was designed.
Ah, UA-camrs/Streamers are back to glazing BSG despite the Unheard Edition bullshit. The extra Storage Boxes are absolutely huge P2W things, yes they don't provide a direct advantage in a PvP fight, but the Scav Junkbox is usually the first thing an average player saves up for in the beginning, so saving around ₽2M is pretty big, and that's just the Junk box, add a few more ₽xM for the other items.
deadass hes selling out to bsg, like hes deflecting all the p2w options too
start a new wipe with a grizzly + CMS + 3 extra spaces to choose whathever you want to put on that Gamma container seams too pay to win to me...
I been hunting a bigger secure container since i started, ill never be good enough to get the kappa but im still on alpha and really feeling the squeeze of only 2 x 2 slots
At Peacekeeper LL2 you can buy a Beta container thats 3x2 slots.
They're all p2w on a macro scale. 1000 players of average skill with unheard will almost always have a statistically significant increase in win rate over a wipe
Streamers/UA-camrs opinion on this stuff is so hard to trust. You have such a crazy vested interest this game continuing. It's literally some of y'all's whole career. Most of you would have nothing without it.
literally no one has a good opinion on this type of stuff
Stash space gives you a pretty huge early advantage as it indirectly lets you level faster and have more money.
Whether or not the game is pay2win depends on whether or not having more money and equipment and advancing faster counts as an advantage.
Bro is coping
Tarkov isnt exactly FULL Pay2Win...
But its more like "Indirect Pay2Win" which ends up being P2W in the first place.
And there is ALOT of Indirect P2W in Tarkov.
TLDR Yes, you skip a lot of time and effort, therefore u skip a lot of struggle, "oh but u can unlock everything but pve mode" thats just deep copium
oh and also being able to hoard loot in the stash saves up a lot "unnecessary" of grind, once you play on a UH account you just cant handle playing on a Standard account anymore you are gonna be feeling that you are doing extra extre EXTRA stuff just to start in the "base-line"
I think it's more like "Pay 2 get called an idiot" imo if we're referring to the Unheard Edition. If you wanna play offline, get a Standard Copy and then install SPT, saves you 210 bucks...
As a Standard Acount owner since 2019-2020 this argument is hilarious. None of this got brought up until alllllll (the majority btw like the brainrot Star Citizen Ship owners) of players that are EOD starting crying about Unheard... you all have had pay2win since day one with your 100-150$ edtion. Stop trying to justify it lmao. You paid to have a EDGE against other people. Short awnser you get better ammo/armor/guns/attachments and can get into and out of raids wayyyy faster than Standard, so please just stop justifying it. It only seems correct because of the Star Citizen effect the majority went thru by buying the more expensive edition due to the hardcore grind of this game. Standard is a minority amd since EOD is gone it will stay a minority most likely.
Milliseconds in a fight matters, so yes unheard edition is pay to win.
the bigger pockets is an actual thing, early wipe if you and someone else had the exact same ak, went head to head, no armor, rig, backpack, etc, the guy who can fit another whole ass mag in his pockets is gonna fucken win
Plus naked runs are so much more lucrative due to the fact you can get 2 more 1x2 items
the guy who can hit headshots would win. Most players arent going to aim at the chest or legs when you can just aim at the head
You can brush off all of the tiny advantages as not being impactful by themselves, but those advantages accumulate, a bunch of 1% advantages added together will make someone 10-20% better, which in the top levels of play where the differences between each player is minimal to none can easily be the deciding factor. So is it pay to win? Absolutely, but paying won't give you the decisive advantage over someone better than you, it'll just make you better than anyone else at your skill level.
Couldn’t you apply the “he didn’t win the fight because he had bigger pockets” line of logic to the secure container? Never-mind the fact that Tarkov isn’t just a PVP shooter and advantages in areas that aren’t PVP are still advantages.
yeah gamma lets you have a painkiller, grizzly medkit, CMS, injectors case, and two stacks of extra ammo with no inventory space.
1:56 your rep with traders does affect stuff now it affects how much you can purchase at one time which means if you have a higher rep, you can buy more ammo or more propatoll from therapist
WHEN IS WIPE
Next thursday 100%
15th
Definitely Thursday
Thursday
@@andracoz god i hope so
i played standard edition for 4 wipes. I then upgraded to EoD.
i can honestly say: the advantage is HUGE! and I really mean HUGE! you can pretty much ignore any questing for trader levels. you get better ammo and better gear A LOT faster! heck you dont even have a CMS on standard edition account…
Oh, and by the way, not needing to upgrade stash to Lvl4 saves you basically 50Mill Rubles… Pay2Convenience, Pay2Headstart or Pay2Win… it is all the same.
My starting M4 and AVS doesn’t change that I’m horrible at the game lmao
i normally use that M4 for a entire week, literally kills everything start of wipe.
@@FedkaSlovanich m4 is a beast, was even better before they nerfed hipfiring nad lasers :)
@@mikemandalorian9226 or now that 5.56 is basically just 9x19 but more recoil and expensive
Bigger stash absolutely makes a difference gameplay-wise, not only because of not having to play tetris, getting into raids faster, but also allowing you to hoard all the quest items ensuring your faster quest progression.
Skills also are not useless, Bolt action for obvious questline progression, you also need hideout management 5 for the Library, which again will allow you to progress a bit faster.
Plus, with Unheard you get the Lucky scav box.
On paper these may seem like small things, but these accumulate fast and give players, especially min-maxing sweats a considerable advantage.
Unheard being not p2w in late wipe? Sure.
Unheard being not p2w in early wipe? Absolutely not.
Bolt action rifle level boost only is worth the eod-unheard upgrade ngl
Tell me you're not a Tarkov player without telling me, holy shit dude you have almost no clue what you are talking about.
The whole point of the wipe in most players eyes is the reset and the race that follow. The race to level and quest faster than most people, to gear up faster and HOLY FUCK you have no clue how INSANELY BIG those 3 bolt action rifle skills are when it comes to the overall picture of questing.
As for the stash spaces, pocket spaces and secure container, these all give an insane advantage to the race, you can loot more stuff, hold more stuff in your stash, you could bring more items out with you and leave less for the person that kills you, like keeping your CMS kit early while putting some keys in your ass or m855a1 that the other person otherwise would've gotten.
You can also save just flat 2.2 million rubles on only having to buy at most 2 scav cases, when a person with the normal version of the game may need 3 or 4 and he has to sell off stuff anyways because his stash is full. All of these things give you an extereme advantage to a wipe (TO THE GAME) for 90% of the players.
people really see it as a race? i know people trying to get kappa early on do but ive never met a normal player that sees early wipe as a race to questing. just that early wipe means they dont have to run the same boring kits with the same meta ammo.
I just love the insurance return timer with Unheard. It's a whole entire new stash space for basically 2 weeks
Bro all the stuff you said "isnt really gameplay" is all apart of the tarkov experience, like playing Tetris and choosing a kit to run and worrying about losing the kit, more space more kits more health packs more ammo more grenades yknow dude? Youre such a sellout for bsg why are you defending them
I guess someone could run more nades with their expanded pockets, right?
this video is pointless. just because you say something like a bigger inventory won't give you a combat advantage it doesn't mean it's not part of the game. take out all the looting and go play some milsim if you think it's not part of the game. looting is half of this game, you can't just ignore it
played 2 wipes not looting with my pmc but only with my scav, didn't change how i played cause the skill isn't affected by pockets contrary to what others believe
"A more objective viewpoint" - I love how Leviticus is always just a troll and also provides some really balanced, well thought through insights
Says he won't shills
Shills