I have a RedShift and I like that it takes some sting out of bumps but I don't like 1. the single pivot "throw you over the bars" feeling and, 2. the clunk of topping out. I fixed the second problem by putting a bit of tyre tube on the "up" part of the internal mechanism, but I can't fix the first problem. That's why the Freeqence looks so appealing.
I bought the Freeqence and it's amazing. Yeah, it's not cheap, but you're getting what you pay for. It integrates perfectly into my bike and I don't even feel it moving (that's a good thing). There's no harsh end-of-travel on up or down, it's silent in movement, it absorbs a surprising amount of bumps (pounding over rough gravel with uneven dirt) and although CyclingAbout said there's torsional flex, I don't notice it (and I yank around on the bars - I'm not just cruising). Definitely worth the money 👍
Impressive research & results. Very thorough. I'm super tempted to pull the trigger on one of these stems after watching your vid. Looking forward to our first brevet of the season together...wherever that may be. 🤓👍
Thanks Jason! Looking forward to seeing you too. I get vacation envy seeing what you are up to. Just say the word and you can try out anything you are interested in. I may need my recumbent for the Spring though, depending on how recovery goes.
After 2 years on the Shockstop, the Vecnum felt completely different. Both are excellent, but definitely different. The real shocker was riding a rigid stem again. I never see myself going back to that.
@@CZMetiI want to get plenty of mileage on the Vecnum before sharing any conclusions. After about 2000k on it and 3 brevets, initial impressions suggest the Vecnum performs a little better as it can be set softer without being noticed, and functions in a way that is less noticed in general. It performs significantly better with aero bars and in the drops. Redshift is still a huge improvement over a rigid stem and holds many advantages over the Vecnum, like price, sizing options, ability to flip it for +/-6 degrees, no cable interference, and appearance. Hope this helps in the meantime. Let me know if you have any other questions.
Another excellent analysis. I have been using RedShift in large part to your past videos. I am in the process of finishing the setup of bike#2. I just bought another RedShift setup! I’m getting emotionally prepared in case you determine that Vecnum is better! Regardless, your posts always help. Thanks!
Glad to hear you enjoy it! No need to worry either. Both products are very good and miles better than a rigid stem. What bike are you building for bike 2?
I got excited by this, but then I learned the minimum length is 90mm and 90 is usually frame size medium or larger on road. both my gravel and road bike have 60mm.
Yeah, there are even limitations as to which frames can accept the Vecnum 90mm version. They have a little guide tool to test your frame compatibility. The Redshift goes down to 80mm. With short reach handlebars, it may work for you.
Fun stuff. Its bit sad that this is only second video I saw with some measurements (after your other measurement on seapost). Hand and wrists MSDs are no joke and reducing vibration should be studied more by bike industry. I think there is too much hype about speed/aero and not enough stuff about comfort for ordinary folks who just like to ride a lot. One thing I am bit confused is measurement error in your experiment. How many measurement did you perform on each setup? I wonder how much of measurement error would be there if you make same loop 10x on same setup. One hole is not same like other hole and path of ride is not always same. Maybe it would be hard to perform, but probably to smooth the results and figure out measurement errors you would have to repeat the loop many times. Higher speeds would be interesting to see as well. What I found on my gravel 40mm tyres - a low quality asphalt is kind of ok on low speeds, but when you go over 30 its harder to avoid holes and in general it just makes hands "feel tired" faster. I do wonder how would figures look measured on lets say 25 vs 30 vs 35 km/h.
Cheers, I expect this to become a bigger deal in the next few years. I agree it is under reported on. This test has lots of limitations for sure, but I think is a big step up from the 'one and done' tests most channels seem so keen on. I also hoped to explain it in enough detail that interested cyclists could recreate it on their own and hopefully improve on my protocol. When developing the protocol, I did more runs, but settled on 3 'successful' runs per variable for practicality since there was surprisingly little variation between successful runs. Clear differentiation from pretty small changes (like tire pressure) show up distinctly in the results with only 3 laps. Of course more laps would be ideal. Testing uncomfortable setups is rather taxing though, since the course is so dense with features. With the dozens and dozens of laps, I was able to target the same marker of each speed bump and curb and take the same lines on the busted path pretty easily. Speed is limited for my safety (many big bumps), safety of pedestrians on campus, and fewer failed runs due to improper speed. You should give testing a try. It's quite interesting.
The Vecnum freeQENCE Suspension Stem sounds like a winner. My bike has the Cirrus Cycles Kinekt Suspension. It appears the Vecnum has a similar execution, with slight improvements to design and materials. I'm happy with my stem and have no complaints. For those interested in my pursuit of comfort and handling improvements... I bought a ridged Class 3 e-bike, designed for urban use. The ride was extra harsh. I live in a big city with plenty of poorly maintained roads. After several longer rides, I knew that I had to make some changes. I detailed all of my improvements to illustrate that no single improvement does it all. It would be great if that was the case. The first improvement was going from a 28mm to a 38mm tire. A suspension seat post was the next step. Followed by replacing my stock stem with the Kinekt Suspension. Finally, I replaced my stock flat handlebars with the Spike 800 Vibrocore bars with a 75mm rise. Everyone of these additions contributed to my bike eventually becoming far more comfortable as well as adding confidence in handling.
Thanks for sharing! I've always been curious about the Kinekt performance. I imagine it is ideal for gravel and constant harsh pavement. With an ebike, there are a lot of good reasons to get wider tires, including grip for braking. Low pressures are great for comfort and grip too. Glad to hear your comfort is all sorted.
I've own a traditional bike. E-bikes are a completely different animal. Because e-bikes weigh more, generate much more torque and speed, they are engineered to be much more of a ridged. The Kinekt stem was a successful improvement for my e-bike. I do suggest along with tire changes and a possible suspension seat post, if you upgrade your stem, consider upgrading your handlebars as well. BTW I forgot to mention in my earlier comments, Thanks for sharing a well produced and informative video.@@overbikedrandonneuring
I've been a convert to the Redshift stem for a while now. This looks like an improvement, however the positive travel puts me off. I don't need my upward motion being absorbed when I lift my bars/wheel over an obstacle. If you don't ride on gravel I'm sure this is a non-issue but it is enough to put me off changing systems.
Yeah, I don't have the context of experience to comment on that. I don't notice the positive travel on the Vecnum, but it may be needed to protect the integrity of the stem. Kind of like if you replaced a rear shock on an MTB with a rigid metal rod, impacts would destroy the frame. The Redshift might benefit from positive travel squish in some contexts. I often pull on my aero bars to get in position, but with the Redshift single pivot, leverage puts a lot of force on the little plastic wedge. The extension tips are 38cm from the pivot, so large multiples of mechanical advantage are applied and I may have damaged the wedge. Only a problem with aero bars though.
A question on the Vecnum Freequence stem: What amount of the 20mm travel (downwards) would you say is already consumed by just having your hands (and therefore part of your body weight) on the bars while riding in the "hoods" at a modest (bike touring) pace (no major bumps)? Great channel (data driven, not flashy) btw , just discovered it.
Thanks! Ideally need both data and subjective assessment when possible. It's likely the Kinect stem would result in more impressive data, but may also be too active for road riding. I don't know for sure though. Looking forward to the Vecnum vs. Redshift showdown though.
This is wonderful analysis that backs up my semi empirical experience. I have the Freequence 105 with riser bars using 42mm tires and i really enjoy it. The linkage does hold up, but ill look out for the galvanic corrosion possibly.
Excellent test review! Subbed😊. Have 2 redshift stems and they work, but i think these will work better due to dual pivots. Question is how much. Do they sometimes have promotions or discounts? That would help to bite the bullet.
Thank you! I am glad this was useful for you. More time is needed with the freeQENCE to make definitive judgements. I've been on the Redshift for 2 years and still evolve my perception of its performance. I think discounts are few and far between. Vecnum manufacture in Germany, the design is very complex, the finish is outstanding, and they use titanium axles, so I doubt there is any room for discounts. After I get a few brevets in, I'll report back with a comparison.
Just installed my Redshift stem and am enjoying it so far on my rando bike. Curious to see what happens when I combine it with my aero-bars, time for some testing!
Enjoy it! I'd appreciate you reporting back your findings. When I first added the Shockstop two years ago, I noticed better control on rough pavement and over bumps in the aero bars. Less need to go back to the hoods too.
I don't live in the US, but from my understanding discounts are few and far between from Vecnum. I share prices paid for transparency and to better allow viewers to make informed judgement on my biases. I made some icons to show potential bias inducing factors here: www.canva.com/design/DAFxfEltro8/25HHXZFQvNU5RDExGJuFsw/edit
God can I just say that I love your videos? They’re so thorough. Have you tested the redshift or cane creek stems compared to the vecnum? I’m very curious how they compare, even anecdotally, without data. Selfishly, as the owner of two redshift stems, I could believe the vecnum is better but *just by how much* is the main question I have considering they’re 2-3x cheaper. I also have a canyon bike, so for that bike, my only option is the redshift.
Thank you for the kind words! I haven't tested the Redshift on this protocol yet, but I have ridden it for 2 years. I am also curious about its performance in a numerical sense. The numbers will only tell part of the story since the type of movements are different. I suspect the Vecnum will come out on top for me due to behavior with aero bars, but the Redshift has design and packaging advantages too, and may also result in a softer self-selected stiffness when riding on the hoods.
@@rdx913 Redshift has 7 sizes, including 2 30 degree sizes. The 6 degree versions can be flipped. They also have 1 1/4" versions for Canyon/Giant oversized steerers, so more fit options are available. The movement types of each stem will result in different levels of perceived comfort in different hand positions, and different factors that limit the softest useful configuration. I really feel in the weeds now haha.
@@overbikedrandonneuringoh I see what you mean. Yes, agreed! I have a 120mm in 1 and 1/4 run in negative orientation on one bike and a 80mm in 1 and 1/8 run in positive orientation on another.
시청 해주셔서 감사합니다. 리뷰어로서 할인을 받아 총 31만원을 지불했습니다. 40만원 정도 예상 가능합니다. 우리는 유럽 부가가치세(VAT)를 납부하지 않지만 한국 관세청에는 수입세를 납부합니다. 주문하는 데 도움이 필요하면 Vecnum으로 이메일을 보내실 수 있습니다. Papago나 Google Translate가 의사소통에 도움이 될 수 있습니다.
Thanks for the information! The stem seems to be impressive for everyone looking to improve their comfort, but there seems to be 1 important problem as well: The stem absorbs bumbs like softer tires, but unlike softer tires the vibrations are stil present in the frame. Maybe the vibrations in the frame are even bigger due to the suspension stem because there is less deformation in the tire (that is my guess, since the weight on the suspended handlebar moves the suspension the stead of the tire). It may not seem that relevant since the comfort on the handlebars is still improved with the suspension stem, but if it is at the expense of the comfort at the pedals and saddle it might not be worth it. Interesting is that in the study you mention at 1:22 states that the saddle and handlebars were insulated from the vibration, so vibration at the pedals is a major problem as well which cannot be solved with a suspension seatpost or stem. And those vibrations might even be increased. What do you think about this? Could the suspension stem increase frame vibrations?
Great question! I don't have a reliable answer, but I'd welcome smarter people than I to give this question a crack. My input is speculation, but I'll give it a go. I'll consider the context of the same tire and pressure with or without minimalist suspension components. Optimizing tire setup for speed and avoiding the aero and rolling resistance losses of big soft tires is the main appeal of these systems. So the question becomes if minimalist suspension systems increase pedal vibration. I think of the system as springs-in-series, where the tires and minimalist suspension systems (Vecnum stem and Redshift seatpost in my case) are the only effective springs between body and road. I consider all the minor deflection in the force paths small enough to be ignored (rims, spokes, hub, bearings, frame, fork, handlebar, crankset, etc.). Body weight is applied to the bike through hands, feet, and bum. The ratio of weight in each pathway is dynamic, but in general most of it goes through the feet. With only some weight to suspend, the spring rate of suspension stems and seatposts are rather soft compared to the tire. Softer spring rate is evident by the Vecnum performance improving relative to a reduction in tire pressure as conditions roughened. The travel of these systems is also quite small, max 20mm. With soft spring rates and short travel, the total energy dissipation capacity of the systems is not huge according to Hook's Law, despite significant gains in perceived comfort. If that energy was transmitted through the frame instead of the stem or seatpost or tires, it would add vibration to the cranks (but not too much since the energy amount is rather small). That energy is released as heat and stored in the elastomers as elastic potential energy used to return to their original shape against the weight of hands/bum instead. In total, I suspect a small amount of energy is 'absorbed' by the suspension components. Tires may deform ever so slightly less. This could, in theory, improve rolling resistance through a reduction in hysteresis or impedance losses. I suspect this effect would also be quite minimal given the small amount of energy these systems handle. But less tire deformation alone gives no reason to suspect that extra energy gets transmitted to cranks via vibration. Anyway, that's my best guess. Curious how reducing hand/bum vibrations affect vibration felt in the legs. Also curious if those better informed than me have better ideas. Cheers, and thank you for the thoughtful question. I feel like I learned a lot trying to answer it.
Problem : suspension stems, whatever the brand, come in very limited lengths and angles potentially ruining your bike fitting... which is key for comfort on a bike. If you need so much such a device, man, you're sitting on the wrong bike for your type of riding or need for comfort. Very interesting test and valid testing method, though.
Vecnum has limited fit options, but is likely to accommodate most riders. Redshift have many options and the angle can be flipped so nearly any fit scenario can be accommodated by them. For ultra distance cycling, the focus of this channel, insulation from vibration is more than for comfort, it is for reduced fatigue. With minimalist suspension systems, we can run maximally efficient tire setups that are not necessarily cushy: narrow enough to be aero and smoothly transition to the rim, with ideal pressures for speed; but still be insulated from vibration. Less power needed when pedaling, less fatigue incurred from rough roads is an ultra distance cyclists dream.
"suspension stems, whatever the brand, come in very limited lengths and angles" : I wouldn't call the range of lengths and rise angles offered by the Kinekt stem "very limited"...have you had a look at those?
Thank you for your video test. I ride a cannondale synapse (80% training on the roads in quite good condition and 20% in gravel). To preserve my neck and low back I hesitate between cane creek eesilk and vectum freeqence. The small difference of price will not affect my choice, I try to find the best model for me. I am afraid that the model of cane creek could be to soft for the training on the road. My weight is 105 kg, (with a back bag 5 kg more). I reseach a confort but not to lose the reactivity of the bike. What do you think ? Thank you in advance for your reply and advice. Chris from France
Hi Chris, I've not personally ridden the Cane Creek, but it likely performs in a similar way to the Redshift. All 3 suspension stems offer a wide range of stiffness adjustment. At 93kg, I use adjustments in the middle of both the Vecnum and Redshift for road riding, so either would accommodate you. Subjectively, the Vecnum is less noticeable in use, thus slightly better maintains the impression of a reactive feel and better fits your described needs. For actual handling, both the Redshift and Vecnum are plenty stiff to twisting forces and neither feel sloppy. In fact both improve the feelings of control compared to a rigid stem. I set some ill advised KOMs on a rough downhill using the Redshift stem when I first equipped it a few years ago. For lower back comfort, I would recommend a minimalist suspension seat post. The top road choices are Redshift Shockstop Pro and Cane Creek eeSilk. I chose the Redshift Shockstop Pro over the Cane Creek for what it's worth.
@@복면로드라이더표시된 가격에는 당사가 지불하지 않는 EU VAT(48유로)가 포함되어 있습니다. 배송비는 30유로, 수입세는 42000원이었습니다. 리뷰어 할인을 받았으니 수입세가 5만원이 될 수도 있겠네요. 한국에서는 Vecnum으로 이메일을 보내 주문해야 합니다. 그들은 총 가격을 알려줄 것입니다. 40만원 +/- 예상합니다. Vecnum을 주문하시려면 총 비용을 알려주시기 바랍니다.
Great test. Love the approach and protocol. I did the same a short while ago and compared my long standing redshift sports shockstop stem, the Vecnum freeQence and even a XC suspension fork. For what it's worth I prefer the shock stop stem and also didn't found any of the particular features like kinematics (parallel instead of tilting) of an issue - even with aerobars. Or maybe the tiltling even made things more comfortable for me. But - those features of the Vecnum certainly have their benefits for some usecases and riders. I have two questions (maybe 3): - did you felt a noticeable difference in effectiveness / comfort by turning that screw? You said you preferred a middle'ish setting. But your data shows very little difference (and for smooth road even a bit worse) results for the softest setting. This was my main problem (even leading to Vecnum testing my specimen and send me an appropriately tuned version). But still to no avail. I - with my around 68 kg needed to set it to it's lowest setup to begin to feel anything worthwhile out of the stem. - So, how much do you weigh if I may ask? - the differentiate in the classes "smooth section", "chipseal" and so on... was this based on actual positional data of sorts? Like e.g. time of the record or the km inside the gps-file to really see that the accelerations measured stem from this section of your test course? Or simply by some sort of "well, the second highest acceleration bucket should come from the second roughest part of my test course"?
Hi Torsten, thank you for checking out the channel and for the kind words. I'll read your article after lunch today. I always appreciate your perspective and high quality writing. The tilting on the Redshift is a non-issue for normal handlebar positions, but with aero bars the movement at the extension tips is very high. Control is better than a rigid stem, but I found myself instinctually pushing down on the aero bars before bumps to mitigate excessive movement. I could be more affected due to weight (93kg) and the length of my extension tips from the pivot point on the stem. -The effect of the softest setting was noticed on chipseal and hard hits in the hoods, and was a pleasant surprise. I will not ride it that soft as the extra weight applied when in the drops and aero bars causes bottoming out with moderate bumps. I may weigh the front wheel load in different riding positions to illustrate this for the next stem video. In general, I find the Vecnum movement to go largely unnoticed, which made me think it wasn't working well when I first swapped from the Redshift. After swapping Vecnum>rigid>Vecnum, it was clearly working, but just felt very different from what I am used to (2 years of Redshift). -Deciding how to record and present the data was the hardest part of the experiment and perhaps an area that could improved. Recording G-Force results in an almost normal distribution which can be useful in some ways, but limiting in others. Linear acceleration scaled nicely and better represented my subjective feelings riding the loop. Measuring known surface classes based on position/video data had some drawbacks like speed bump interference on smooth section and difficulty accounting for hard hits/surface transition hits spread throughout the course. The buckets contain data by order of intensity rather than course position data. Gopro video which allowed for surface classification and length records. Buckets are anchored around the chipseal section, which represents ~14% of the total course time (rounded to 15%). Video showing the moment accelerometer data began recording allowed for a 20 second sample of consistently rough chipseal to be isolated. It averaged 15.5m/s^2 with rigid stem, pretty much matching it's bucket. Drawing a line between smooth and worn pavement was less clear since large chunks of the course could match either category depending on perspective. 6 wide ramp-type speed bumps scarred by speeding autos and 11 surface transitions had spikes in readings, and 5% (13 seconds) seemed like a nice round number, if overestimating a bit 4% is more likely correct, but round numbers are nice. Thank you for great questions. Any critical feedback would be appreciated too.
Hey, thanks for the detailed answer. :) Ah, that's interesting to read that also you with a significant higher body mass than me at first was wondering whether the Vecnum really worked. Had the exact same feeling. For me, it was even exaggerated since Vecnum found my 120 mm stem at first not to their spec (was harder than it was meant to be). But even after getting it out of service the (non)feeling remained. Which in a sense is a good thing. Since the data clearly shows that it reduces vibrations. But a) for me it really has to be the very lowest setting to be effective (leading it to me to recommend this stem rather for people being quite a bit more heavy than me, wich would also exclude many women) and b) I'm wondering: if I don't really feel more cushioned instead of like with the shockstop stem but the acceleration data (at least in terms of absolute m/s^2) on the handlebar shows the same rate of reducing vibrations for both stems... am I as protected and am I as less fatigued with the Vecnum freeQence then with the redshift shockstop stem? I tried to look into the FFT spectra to spot differences and try to make out different characteristics of the vibration damping and while finding some in the end I could only show and describe them but not draw hard conclusions out of it. Highly interesting nevertheless. In the end I concluded the test with the absolute data and the description of individually felt comfort. As well as with a host of features and needs which might sway the prospective user to one or the other stem. E.G. if one wanted a negative rise it has to be the shockstop stem or if someone wants to use his Jonesbar with a suspension stem it has to be the FreeQence and so on. @@overbikedrandonneuring
@@torstenfrank1856 It is an interesting difference between the two systems. I need to do some very long rides on the Vecnum to assess perceived fatigue in the hands and shoulders. Subjective feelings not matching data need some explanation though, and I don't think rotational movement with Redshift explains it fully. One issue in planning to test the Redshift I found was that the data may be incompatible with Vecnum/rigid stem data. Vibration is measured on the handlebar tops, while hands will be much farther from the rotation axis on the hoods testing Redshift. With the Vecnum/rigid stem, movement at the tops is the same as the hoods. I will try mounting the phone on aero bar extensions at the length of my hoods and on the tops to see how data changes. Thank you for the insight into that problem.
Can't wait to see what you will come up with. :) I, too, tried to wrap my head around it felt and actual comfort might be a factor of absolute displacement vs acceleration. I seriously wonder if it would be a difference, where you put the accelerometer. If it's always the same acceleration but just a longer traveled way since it's the same impulse, it should measure less accelaration? Or not. On the one side it's just simple geometrics but on the other hand it's a question of cause (input) and reaction via us gripping the handlebar and being part of the whole system. In any case: Since my Phone was mounted in a way very much representing the grip position on the hoods it perfectly represents the vibrations affecting my hands for both of these stems. Would be nevertheless interesting to see how the data would look different with the phone mounted on the handlebar and at the tips of the aerobars while in both cases riding on the hoods.@@overbikedrandonneuring
Everyone buying gravel bikes not expecting how harsh the ride really is. Maybe this is a solution but it's ugly as ****. Just get a suspension fork, problem solved. And loose the dropbars for offroad use.
I have little interest in gravel personally, but I suspect you are onto something. 38c knobbies are not doing much. On the other hand, suspension forks are trash at mid-high frequency, low-mid amplitude vibration where the Vecnum is awesome. Horses for courses. For what it's worth, my attempt at a drop bar gravel bike was a custom Ti frame with 2.4" mtb tires, 69* headtube, and Lauf MTB fork back in 2016. You may have liked it. A similar setup may become mainstream in a few years, at which point I can feel smug. This channel's focus is ultra distance road cycling, where insulation from harshness is valuable to reduce fatigue. Aesthetics be damned if such performance can be gained as seen in my testing.
Equivalent to a 30 PSI drop in tire pressure for hard hits!!! Do you use a suspension stem? Will you try one now?
I use Redshift. I have a gravel bike and take part in 75k plus gravel rides. Love it!
I have a RedShift and I like that it takes some sting out of bumps but I don't like 1. the single pivot "throw you over the bars" feeling and, 2. the clunk of topping out. I fixed the second problem by putting a bit of tyre tube on the "up" part of the internal mechanism, but I can't fix the first problem. That's why the Freeqence looks so appealing.
I bought the Freeqence and it's amazing. Yeah, it's not cheap, but you're getting what you pay for. It integrates perfectly into my bike and I don't even feel it moving (that's a good thing). There's no harsh end-of-travel on up or down, it's silent in movement, it absorbs a surprising amount of bumps (pounding over rough gravel with uneven dirt) and although CyclingAbout said there's torsional flex, I don't notice it (and I yank around on the bars - I'm not just cruising). Definitely worth the money 👍
Thank you very much, my randonneur friend, for this scientific yet practical report. Ride on
Impressive research & results. Very thorough. I'm super tempted to pull the trigger on one of these stems after watching your vid. Looking forward to our first brevet of the season together...wherever that may be. 🤓👍
Thanks Jason! Looking forward to seeing you too. I get vacation envy seeing what you are up to. Just say the word and you can try out anything you are interested in. I may need my recumbent for the Spring though, depending on how recovery goes.
I use redshift shockstop and am very happy with it. Curious to see how these two compare. Waiting for the next video. Thanks for sharing
After 2 years on the Shockstop, the Vecnum felt completely different. Both are excellent, but definitely different. The real shocker was riding a rigid stem again. I never see myself going back to that.
@@overbikedrandonneuringvideo coming out soon? I am looking for suspension STEM and at the moment redshift looks the best budget wise
@@CZMetiI want to get plenty of mileage on the Vecnum before sharing any conclusions. After about 2000k on it and 3 brevets, initial impressions suggest the Vecnum performs a little better as it can be set softer without being noticed, and functions in a way that is less noticed in general. It performs significantly better with aero bars and in the drops. Redshift is still a huge improvement over a rigid stem and holds many advantages over the Vecnum, like price, sizing options, ability to flip it for +/-6 degrees, no cable interference, and appearance. Hope this helps in the meantime. Let me know if you have any other questions.
@@overbikedrandonneuring it does! Much appreciated!
I installed a similar design by Meroca. Instead of a wrench adjustment you put different stiffness of springs in a top load screw.
Another excellent analysis. I have been using RedShift in large part to your past videos. I am in the process of finishing the setup of bike#2. I just bought another RedShift setup! I’m getting emotionally prepared in case you determine that Vecnum is better! Regardless, your posts always help. Thanks!
Glad to hear you enjoy it! No need to worry either. Both products are very good and miles better than a rigid stem. What bike are you building for bike 2?
Wish the vecnum is sleek as redshift and cane creek🥹
I got excited by this, but then I learned the minimum length is 90mm and 90 is usually frame size medium or larger on road. both my gravel and road bike have 60mm.
Yeah, there are even limitations as to which frames can accept the Vecnum 90mm version. They have a little guide tool to test your frame compatibility.
The Redshift goes down to 80mm. With short reach handlebars, it may work for you.
Thanks for the good video content. I'm enjoying your investigations. Ps. The 3d qr code is linking to the download helper registration page.
Thank you for the kind words. The 3dqr is blurred now to avoid confusion.
Fun stuff. Its bit sad that this is only second video I saw with some measurements (after your other measurement on seapost).
Hand and wrists MSDs are no joke and reducing vibration should be studied more by bike industry. I think there is too much hype about speed/aero and not enough stuff about comfort for ordinary folks who just like to ride a lot.
One thing I am bit confused is measurement error in your experiment.
How many measurement did you perform on each setup?
I wonder how much of measurement error would be there if you make same loop 10x on same setup.
One hole is not same like other hole and path of ride is not always same. Maybe it would be hard to perform, but probably to smooth the results and figure out measurement errors you would have to repeat the loop many times.
Higher speeds would be interesting to see as well. What I found on my gravel 40mm tyres - a low quality asphalt is kind of ok on low speeds, but when you go over 30 its harder to avoid holes and in general it just makes hands "feel tired" faster. I do wonder how would figures look measured on lets say 25 vs 30 vs 35 km/h.
Cheers, I expect this to become a bigger deal in the next few years. I agree it is under reported on.
This test has lots of limitations for sure, but I think is a big step up from the 'one and done' tests most channels seem so keen on. I also hoped to explain it in enough detail that interested cyclists could recreate it on their own and hopefully improve on my protocol.
When developing the protocol, I did more runs, but settled on 3 'successful' runs per variable for practicality since there was surprisingly little variation between successful runs. Clear differentiation from pretty small changes (like tire pressure) show up distinctly in the results with only 3 laps. Of course more laps would be ideal. Testing uncomfortable setups is rather taxing though, since the course is so dense with features.
With the dozens and dozens of laps, I was able to target the same marker of each speed bump and curb and take the same lines on the busted path pretty easily.
Speed is limited for my safety (many big bumps), safety of pedestrians on campus, and fewer failed runs due to improper speed.
You should give testing a try. It's quite interesting.
295 gram is so light for this system. It's a small compromise for the achievements.
Very happy with it so far!
Good video, good information. I may look into this myself.
Thanks !!!
It's still early days in my use, but so far the freeQENCE is quite impressive.
The Vecnum freeQENCE Suspension Stem sounds like a winner. My bike has the Cirrus Cycles Kinekt Suspension. It appears the Vecnum has a similar execution, with slight improvements to design and materials. I'm happy with my stem and have no complaints.
For those interested in my pursuit of comfort and handling improvements...
I bought a ridged Class 3 e-bike, designed for urban use. The ride was extra harsh. I live in a big city with plenty of poorly maintained roads. After several longer rides, I knew that I had to make some changes. I detailed all of my improvements to illustrate that no single improvement does it all. It would be great if that was the case.
The first improvement was going from a 28mm to a 38mm tire. A suspension seat post was the next step. Followed by replacing my stock stem with the Kinekt Suspension. Finally, I replaced my stock flat handlebars with the Spike 800 Vibrocore bars with a 75mm rise. Everyone of these additions contributed to my bike eventually becoming far more comfortable as well as adding confidence in handling.
Thanks for sharing! I've always been curious about the Kinekt performance. I imagine it is ideal for gravel and constant harsh pavement. With an ebike, there are a lot of good reasons to get wider tires, including grip for braking. Low pressures are great for comfort and grip too. Glad to hear your comfort is all sorted.
I've own a traditional bike. E-bikes are a completely different animal. Because e-bikes weigh more, generate much more torque and speed, they are engineered to be much more of a ridged. The Kinekt stem was a successful improvement for my e-bike. I do suggest along with tire changes and a possible suspension seat post, if you upgrade your stem, consider upgrading your handlebars as well.
BTW I forgot to mention in my earlier comments, Thanks for sharing a well produced and informative video.@@overbikedrandonneuring
Can anyone share a good link for a US supplier?
Second link in the video description, thebikesauce
What an outstanding and profound review.
Keep up the good work and thank you for sharing.
바로 구독했습니다. 좋은 자료입니다.
감사합니다! 코리아 란도너스와 함께 타시나요?
I've been a convert to the Redshift stem for a while now. This looks like an improvement, however the positive travel puts me off. I don't need my upward motion being absorbed when I lift my bars/wheel over an obstacle. If you don't ride on gravel I'm sure this is a non-issue but it is enough to put me off changing systems.
Yeah, I don't have the context of experience to comment on that. I don't notice the positive travel on the Vecnum, but it may be needed to protect the integrity of the stem. Kind of like if you replaced a rear shock on an MTB with a rigid metal rod, impacts would destroy the frame.
The Redshift might benefit from positive travel squish in some contexts. I often pull on my aero bars to get in position, but with the Redshift single pivot, leverage puts a lot of force on the little plastic wedge. The extension tips are 38cm from the pivot, so large multiples of mechanical advantage are applied and I may have damaged the wedge. Only a problem with aero bars though.
I've got Kinect on my tri bike. It is needed.
A question on the Vecnum Freequence stem: What amount of the 20mm travel (downwards) would you say is already consumed by just having your hands (and therefore part of your body weight) on the bars while riding in the "hoods" at a modest (bike touring) pace (no major bumps)?
Great channel (data driven, not flashy) btw , just discovered it.
Thank you for the kind words. Very little travel is used up as sag. I haven't measured it, but I would hazard to guess maybe 2mm or so.
Excellent data, perfect! Raw numbers always speak more than vague gut feelings. Also, the psi chart is really useful pick.
Thanks! Ideally need both data and subjective assessment when possible. It's likely the Kinect stem would result in more impressive data, but may also be too active for road riding. I don't know for sure though. Looking forward to the Vecnum vs. Redshift showdown though.
This is wonderful analysis that backs up my semi empirical experience.
I have the Freequence 105 with riser bars using 42mm tires and i really enjoy it. The linkage does hold up, but ill look out for the galvanic corrosion possibly.
I've put in 500km of randonneuring over the last two weekends, and the Vecnum has been excellent. Thanks for your input!
Excellent test review! Subbed😊. Have 2 redshift stems and they work, but i think these will work better due to dual pivots. Question is how much. Do they sometimes have promotions or discounts? That would help to bite the bullet.
Thank you! I am glad this was useful for you. More time is needed with the freeQENCE to make definitive judgements. I've been on the Redshift for 2 years and still evolve my perception of its performance. I think discounts are few and far between. Vecnum manufacture in Germany, the design is very complex, the finish is outstanding, and they use titanium axles, so I doubt there is any room for discounts. After I get a few brevets in, I'll report back with a comparison.
Just installed my Redshift stem and am enjoying it so far on my rando bike. Curious to see what happens when I combine it with my aero-bars, time for some testing!
Enjoy it! I'd appreciate you reporting back your findings. When I first added the Shockstop two years ago, I noticed better control on rough pavement and over bumps in the aero bars. Less need to go back to the hoods too.
Is the discount code for US purchases commonly available or a one off?
I don't live in the US, but from my understanding discounts are few and far between from Vecnum. I share prices paid for transparency and to better allow viewers to make informed judgement on my biases. I made some icons to show potential bias inducing factors here: www.canva.com/design/DAFxfEltro8/25HHXZFQvNU5RDExGJuFsw/edit
God can I just say that I love your videos? They’re so thorough.
Have you tested the redshift or cane creek stems compared to the vecnum? I’m very curious how they compare, even anecdotally, without data. Selfishly, as the owner of two redshift stems, I could believe the vecnum is better but *just by how much* is the main question I have considering they’re 2-3x cheaper. I also have a canyon bike, so for that bike, my only option is the redshift.
Thank you for the kind words! I haven't tested the Redshift on this protocol yet, but I have ridden it for 2 years. I am also curious about its performance in a numerical sense. The numbers will only tell part of the story since the type of movements are different. I suspect the Vecnum will come out on top for me due to behavior with aero bars, but the Redshift has design and packaging advantages too, and may also result in a softer self-selected stiffness when riding on the hoods.
@@overbikedrandonneuringinteresting! Curious what you think the design and packaging advantages are? Or rather, what do you mean by that?
@@rdx913 Redshift has 7 sizes, including 2 30 degree sizes. The 6 degree versions can be flipped. They also have 1 1/4" versions for Canyon/Giant oversized steerers, so more fit options are available. The movement types of each stem will result in different levels of perceived comfort in different hand positions, and different factors that limit the softest useful configuration. I really feel in the weeds now haha.
@@overbikedrandonneuringoh I see what you mean. Yes, agreed! I have a 120mm in 1 and 1/4 run in negative orientation on one bike and a 80mm in 1 and 1/8 run in positive orientation on another.
안녕하세요 영상 유익하게 잘 봤습니다.
덕분에 정말 참고되었어요
저거 한국돈으로 얼마에 구입하셧나요??
저도 사고 싶은데 한국이시면 구입 부탁드려도 괜찮을까요??
시청 해주셔서 감사합니다. 리뷰어로서 할인을 받아 총 31만원을 지불했습니다. 40만원 정도 예상 가능합니다. 우리는 유럽 부가가치세(VAT)를 납부하지 않지만 한국 관세청에는 수입세를 납부합니다. 주문하는 데 도움이 필요하면 Vecnum으로 이메일을 보내실 수 있습니다. Papago나 Google Translate가 의사소통에 도움이 될 수 있습니다.
그렇군요 감사합니다👍👍@@overbikedrandonneuring
Thanks for the information! The stem seems to be impressive for everyone looking to improve their comfort, but there seems to be 1 important problem as well:
The stem absorbs bumbs like softer tires, but unlike softer tires the vibrations are stil present in the frame. Maybe the vibrations in the frame are even bigger due to the suspension stem because there is less deformation in the tire (that is my guess, since the weight on the suspended handlebar moves the suspension the stead of the tire). It may not seem that relevant since the comfort on the handlebars is still improved with the suspension stem, but if it is at the expense of the comfort at the pedals and saddle it might not be worth it.
Interesting is that in the study you mention at 1:22 states that the saddle and handlebars were insulated from the vibration, so vibration at the pedals is a major problem as well which cannot be solved with a suspension seatpost or stem. And those vibrations might even be increased.
What do you think about this? Could the suspension stem increase frame vibrations?
Great question! I don't have a reliable answer, but I'd welcome smarter people than I to give this question a crack. My input is speculation, but I'll give it a go. I'll consider the context of the same tire and pressure with or without minimalist suspension components. Optimizing tire setup for speed and avoiding the aero and rolling resistance losses of big soft tires is the main appeal of these systems. So the question becomes if minimalist suspension systems increase pedal vibration.
I think of the system as springs-in-series, where the tires and minimalist suspension systems (Vecnum stem and Redshift seatpost in my case) are the only effective springs between body and road. I consider all the minor deflection in the force paths small enough to be ignored (rims, spokes, hub, bearings, frame, fork, handlebar, crankset, etc.). Body weight is applied to the bike through hands, feet, and bum. The ratio of weight in each pathway is dynamic, but in general most of it goes through the feet.
With only some weight to suspend, the spring rate of suspension stems and seatposts are rather soft compared to the tire. Softer spring rate is evident by the Vecnum performance improving relative to a reduction in tire pressure as conditions roughened. The travel of these systems is also quite small, max 20mm. With soft spring rates and short travel, the total energy dissipation capacity of the systems is not huge according to Hook's Law, despite significant gains in perceived comfort. If that energy was transmitted through the frame instead of the stem or seatpost or tires, it would add vibration to the cranks (but not too much since the energy amount is rather small). That energy is released as heat and stored in the elastomers as elastic potential energy used to return to their original shape against the weight of hands/bum instead.
In total, I suspect a small amount of energy is 'absorbed' by the suspension components. Tires may deform ever so slightly less. This could, in theory, improve rolling resistance through a reduction in hysteresis or impedance losses. I suspect this effect would also be quite minimal given the small amount of energy these systems handle. But less tire deformation alone gives no reason to suspect that extra energy gets transmitted to cranks via vibration.
Anyway, that's my best guess. Curious how reducing hand/bum vibrations affect vibration felt in the legs. Also curious if those better informed than me have better ideas. Cheers, and thank you for the thoughtful question. I feel like I learned a lot trying to answer it.
Great testing!
Problem : suspension stems, whatever the brand, come in very limited lengths and angles potentially ruining your bike fitting... which is key for comfort on a bike. If you need so much such a device, man, you're sitting on the wrong bike for your type of riding or need for comfort. Very interesting test and valid testing method, though.
Vecnum has limited fit options, but is likely to accommodate most riders. Redshift have many options and the angle can be flipped so nearly any fit scenario can be accommodated by them.
For ultra distance cycling, the focus of this channel, insulation from vibration is more than for comfort, it is for reduced fatigue. With minimalist suspension systems, we can run maximally efficient tire setups that are not necessarily cushy: narrow enough to be aero and smoothly transition to the rim, with ideal pressures for speed; but still be insulated from vibration. Less power needed when pedaling, less fatigue incurred from rough roads is an ultra distance cyclists dream.
"suspension stems, whatever the brand, come in very limited lengths and angles" : I wouldn't call the range of lengths and rise angles offered by the Kinekt stem "very limited"...have you had a look at those?
Thank you for your video test. I ride a cannondale synapse (80% training on the roads in quite good condition and 20% in gravel). To preserve my neck and low back I hesitate between cane creek eesilk and vectum freeqence. The small difference of price will not affect my choice, I try to find the best model for me. I am afraid that the model of cane creek could be to soft for the training on the road. My weight is 105 kg, (with a back bag 5 kg more). I reseach a confort but not to lose the reactivity of the bike. What do you think ? Thank you in advance for your reply and advice. Chris from France
Hi Chris, I've not personally ridden the Cane Creek, but it likely performs in a similar way to the Redshift. All 3 suspension stems offer a wide range of stiffness adjustment. At 93kg, I use adjustments in the middle of both the Vecnum and Redshift for road riding, so either would accommodate you. Subjectively, the Vecnum is less noticeable in use, thus slightly better maintains the impression of a reactive feel and better fits your described needs. For actual handling, both the Redshift and Vecnum are plenty stiff to twisting forces and neither feel sloppy. In fact both improve the feelings of control compared to a rigid stem. I set some ill advised KOMs on a rough downhill using the Redshift stem when I first equipped it a few years ago.
For lower back comfort, I would recommend a minimalist suspension seat post. The top road choices are Redshift Shockstop Pro and Cane Creek eeSilk. I chose the Redshift Shockstop Pro over the Cane Creek for what it's worth.
@@overbikedrandonneuring Thank you for your reply and advice👍
항상리뷰잘보고 있습니다. 익숙한지역이라 신기하네요. 이 스템의 다음리뷰도 있을까요?
시청 해주셔서 감사합니다. 수천 킬로미터를 타고 싶은데 Redshift와 Vecnum을 비교하겠습니다.
@@overbikedrandonneuring 구매에 관심이 생기는데 부가세 및 관세포함 배송료 합치면 40만원이 넘어가겟죠?
@@복면로드라이더표시된 가격에는 당사가 지불하지 않는 EU VAT(48유로)가 포함되어 있습니다. 배송비는 30유로, 수입세는 42000원이었습니다. 리뷰어 할인을 받았으니 수입세가 5만원이 될 수도 있겠네요.
한국에서는 Vecnum으로 이메일을 보내 주문해야 합니다. 그들은 총 가격을 알려줄 것입니다. 40만원 +/- 예상합니다. Vecnum을 주문하시려면 총 비용을 알려주시기 바랍니다.
The nerdiness here was magnificent! Thanks a lot!
That's among the highest compliments I could receive, thank you.
@@overbikedrandonneuring 🥳🥳🥳
Great test. Love the approach and protocol.
I did the same a short while ago and compared my long standing redshift sports shockstop stem, the Vecnum freeQence and even a XC suspension fork.
For what it's worth I prefer the shock stop stem and also didn't found any of the particular features like kinematics (parallel instead of tilting) of an issue - even with aerobars. Or maybe the tiltling even made things more comfortable for me. But - those features of the Vecnum certainly have their benefits for some usecases and riders.
I have two questions (maybe 3):
- did you felt a noticeable difference in effectiveness / comfort by turning that screw? You said you preferred a middle'ish setting. But your data shows very little difference (and for smooth road even a bit worse) results for the softest setting. This was my main problem (even leading to Vecnum testing my specimen and send me an appropriately tuned version). But still to no avail. I - with my around 68 kg needed to set it to it's lowest setup to begin to feel anything worthwhile out of the stem.
- So, how much do you weigh if I may ask?
- the differentiate in the classes "smooth section", "chipseal" and so on... was this based on actual positional data of sorts? Like e.g. time of the record or the km inside the gps-file to really see that the accelerations measured stem from this section of your test course? Or simply by some sort of "well, the second highest acceleration bucket should come from the second roughest part of my test course"?
Hi Torsten, thank you for checking out the channel and for the kind words. I'll read your article after lunch today. I always appreciate your perspective and high quality writing.
The tilting on the Redshift is a non-issue for normal handlebar positions, but with aero bars the movement at the extension tips is very high. Control is better than a rigid stem, but I found myself instinctually pushing down on the aero bars before bumps to mitigate excessive movement. I could be more affected due to weight (93kg) and the length of my extension tips from the pivot point on the stem.
-The effect of the softest setting was noticed on chipseal and hard hits in the hoods, and was a pleasant surprise. I will not ride it that soft as the extra weight applied when in the drops and aero bars causes bottoming out with moderate bumps. I may weigh the front wheel load in different riding positions to illustrate this for the next stem video. In general, I find the Vecnum movement to go largely unnoticed, which made me think it wasn't working well when I first swapped from the Redshift. After swapping Vecnum>rigid>Vecnum, it was clearly working, but just felt very different from what I am used to (2 years of Redshift).
-Deciding how to record and present the data was the hardest part of the experiment and perhaps an area that could improved. Recording G-Force results in an almost normal distribution which can be useful in some ways, but limiting in others. Linear acceleration scaled nicely and better represented my subjective feelings riding the loop. Measuring known surface classes based on position/video data had some drawbacks like speed bump interference on smooth section and difficulty accounting for hard hits/surface transition hits spread throughout the course. The buckets contain data by order of intensity rather than course position data. Gopro video which allowed for surface classification and length records. Buckets are anchored around the chipseal section, which represents ~14% of the total course time (rounded to 15%). Video showing the moment accelerometer data began recording allowed for a 20 second sample of consistently rough chipseal to be isolated. It averaged 15.5m/s^2 with rigid stem, pretty much matching it's bucket. Drawing a line between smooth and worn pavement was less clear since large chunks of the course could match either category depending on perspective. 6 wide ramp-type speed bumps scarred by speeding autos and 11 surface transitions had spikes in readings, and 5% (13 seconds) seemed like a nice round number, if overestimating a bit 4% is more likely correct, but round numbers are nice.
Thank you for great questions. Any critical feedback would be appreciated too.
Hey, thanks for the detailed answer. :)
Ah, that's interesting to read that also you with a significant higher body mass than me at first was wondering whether the Vecnum really worked. Had the exact same feeling. For me, it was even exaggerated since Vecnum found my 120 mm stem at first not to their spec (was harder than it was meant to be). But even after getting it out of service the (non)feeling remained. Which in a sense is a good thing. Since the data clearly shows that it reduces vibrations. But a) for me it really has to be the very lowest setting to be effective (leading it to me to recommend this stem rather for people being quite a bit more heavy than me, wich would also exclude many women) and b) I'm wondering: if I don't really feel more cushioned instead of like with the shockstop stem but the acceleration data (at least in terms of absolute m/s^2) on the handlebar shows the same rate of reducing vibrations for both stems... am I as protected and am I as less fatigued with the Vecnum freeQence then with the redshift shockstop stem?
I tried to look into the FFT spectra to spot differences and try to make out different characteristics of the vibration damping and while finding some in the end I could only show and describe them but not draw hard conclusions out of it. Highly interesting nevertheless.
In the end I concluded the test with the absolute data and the description of individually felt comfort. As well as with a host of features and needs which might sway the prospective user to one or the other stem. E.G. if one wanted a negative rise it has to be the shockstop stem or if someone wants to use his Jonesbar with a suspension stem it has to be the FreeQence and so on. @@overbikedrandonneuring
@@torstenfrank1856 It is an interesting difference between the two systems. I need to do some very long rides on the Vecnum to assess perceived fatigue in the hands and shoulders.
Subjective feelings not matching data need some explanation though, and I don't think rotational movement with Redshift explains it fully. One issue in planning to test the Redshift I found was that the data may be incompatible with Vecnum/rigid stem data. Vibration is measured on the handlebar tops, while hands will be much farther from the rotation axis on the hoods testing Redshift. With the Vecnum/rigid stem, movement at the tops is the same as the hoods. I will try mounting the phone on aero bar extensions at the length of my hoods and on the tops to see how data changes. Thank you for the insight into that problem.
Can't wait to see what you will come up with. :)
I, too, tried to wrap my head around it felt and actual comfort might be a factor of absolute displacement vs acceleration. I seriously wonder if it would be a difference, where you put the accelerometer. If it's always the same acceleration but just a longer traveled way since it's the same impulse, it should measure less accelaration? Or not. On the one side it's just simple geometrics but on the other hand it's a question of cause (input) and reaction via us gripping the handlebar and being part of the whole system.
In any case: Since my Phone was mounted in a way very much representing the grip position on the hoods it perfectly represents the vibrations affecting my hands for both of these stems. Would be nevertheless interesting to see how the data would look different with the phone mounted on the handlebar and at the tips of the aerobars while in both cases riding on the hoods.@@overbikedrandonneuring
It is like Redshift’s shockstop stem.
You're right, but it doesn't change the handlebar angle.
Same product category but significantly different user experience. Different enough that it deserves a separate video
Everyone buying gravel bikes not expecting how harsh the ride really is. Maybe this is a solution but it's ugly as ****. Just get a suspension fork, problem solved. And loose the dropbars for offroad use.
I have little interest in gravel personally, but I suspect you are onto something. 38c knobbies are not doing much. On the other hand, suspension forks are trash at mid-high frequency, low-mid amplitude vibration where the Vecnum is awesome. Horses for courses. For what it's worth, my attempt at a drop bar gravel bike was a custom Ti frame with 2.4" mtb tires, 69* headtube, and Lauf MTB fork back in 2016. You may have liked it. A similar setup may become mainstream in a few years, at which point I can feel smug.
This channel's focus is ultra distance road cycling, where insulation from harshness is valuable to reduce fatigue. Aesthetics be damned if such performance can be gained as seen in my testing.
@@overbikedrandonneuring he don't wanna hear all that 😅 he only saw his narrative