Why didn't Sauron create more Nazgul?
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- Опубліковано 30 жов 2023
- In this video, we look at the possible reasons why Sauron never tried or succeeded in creating more Nazgul.
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The idea of the Nazgul having to nominally serve Frodo leads to some amusing scenarios. As Frodo had just made a terrible journey and was desperately hungry and thirsty, I could see him ordering the Nazgul to fetch food and drink for him and Sam. Another theory I have never seen any channel cover is this: "what if Bill Ferny didn't sell his pony to Strider and the hobbits, and they thus stayed in Bree an extra day trying to acquire a different pack animal?" If that happens, they are still in Bree when Gandalf arrives on Shadowfax that night, and opens up many different alternate scenarios.
I have always had a suspicion that The Mouth of Sauron was on his way to becoming a Nazgul. Think about it, he was powerful enough, and had been in Sauron's service long enough, to be Sauron's chief non-ringwrath follower, to be put in charge of Barad-Dúr, to represent and speak for Sauron, to have forgotten his own name, to harbor well-founded opinions that he would goven the west after Sauron had victory, ect. He must have been on the way to becoming a Nazgul.
Sauron did not think he'd need more. Sauron did not know Nazgul would be so powerful, and it took hundreds of years to turn a man into a Nazgul. He did not have access to the forges of Eregion, needed the rings he had on hand to snare other races he did not yet control.
I always did wonder: Why didn’t the witch king just stab 20,000 people with the morgul blade and make a wraith army?
Regarding Sauron offering to return the 3 Dwarf rings… in Fellowship of the Ring, The Council of Elrond, Gloin tells the tale of the messenger of Morder asking the dwarves’ help in finding the halfling that he’d learned of from Gollum . Sauron only offered to return the three dwarf rings
Because magical rings that enslave the souls of men don't grow on trees.
I think another limiting factor with the idea of creating more Rings is the amount of power in the One Ring itself. There was a limit to how much power Sauron could put into the One Ring and that he put so much of his own power into it suggests to me the possibility that there was a limit to how many other Rings of Power could be subordinate to the One Ring.
These bada55, elite creatures could not kill a single hobbit tho and I cannot take them seriously.
There is no justification for claiming that the rings could or could not bind more than one person at a time. We cannot know that, since JRR and Christopher are dead! The prolonged life span argument doesn't hold: Gollum and Bilbo begin to age when the effects of having owned the ring cease. Their longing may be due to withdrawal symptoms. The longing seem to continue after the One Ring is destroyed.
I think the whole point of the nazgul was to slowly corrupt the kingdoms they ruled to serve sauron and provide him with soldiers and slaves, and after they served their purpose they were basically just normal dudes with whatever powers they had accumulated in life, plus some bad breath and invisibility. I don't think most of them were much better than regular human fighters otherwise. The witch king seems to be the most powerful, being a warrior and a sorcerer, but even then afaik sauron still decided juice him up with his own power before battle...and he still died. I think making more nazgul was more about "which kingdom do i want to target and slowly corrupt over the course of an age" than it was about having an invisible guy in a hood to dump your chamber pot for you. I kinda think the only advantage of having nazgul was their loyalty and the fact that they can walk around invisible and be great spies. By the third age it seems that most of that kingdom corrupting work was done so there wasn't much of a point in continuing. Most of the kingdoms that were going to be corrupted had been already and the ones that hadn't would take too long compared to just invading them. He took the 9 rings back because they all have power in their own right that he can use. Remember, their purpose wasn't ONLY to corrupt the users, but also to give them the power to preserve and rule their kingdoms. They might have all had specific useful powers that sauron wanted for all we know. If morrowind taught me anything it's that you can never have too many enchanted rings.
I’ve heard rumors that Lobelia Sackville-Baggins wanted to control the Nine as muscle at the Party Tree in Hobbiton. 😮
You know what I love about Tolkien fandom? The art work. Inspires such beautiful imagines, rich in story...
Question for you about the Nazgûl. So when ever the baddies sent out the orc/goblins they had instructions to bring back the ring bearer. I’m assuming with how the ring was if a goblin/orc whoever was to pick up the ring it would seduce them also. So what would happen if the Nazgûl picked up the one ring? Would they follow orders or be consumed by it?
Really interesting. Was always interested in the 3 remaining dwarven rings.
Excellent video on Ringonomics :) Really logical takes on the multiple issues here!
Really cool topic cheers from Toronto 🙃
I always liked the idea that Sauron returned the Witch King's ring before the battle of the Pelennor Fields, both granting him greater power, while simultaneously making his ultimate demise possible.
Interesting and excellent reasoning!
Great video! Some additional observations: just as the Noldor probably couldn't have crafted the Rings of Power without Sauron's help (at least not as quickly), I don't believe Sauron could create more Rings of Power without the High Elves. Originally there were just 19 Great Rings of Power, and many lesser "practice" magic rings, with the intent of them being made by Elves for Elves. The Rings' intended purpose was to generate bubbles of Valinorean purity in Middle-earth so the Elves could live long-term in this world that they loved, Morgoth-poisoned though it may be. While Sauron captured all but the Three when he invaded Eregion and sacked Ost-in-Edhil, the jig was up and the Elves weren't going to be fooled again, so he passed the 16 rings he won out to Dwarves and Men as a makeshift Plan B. Over thousands of years the public conception of the order of Rings (the One, Three, Seven, and Nine) was set as we know them during the end of the Third Age, with songs and poems made about them.
To support your argument, consider the three Elven Rings. Elrond, Gandalf and Galadriel were very much using them against Sauron's interests during the Third Age and there was nothing that he could do about it because he didn't have the One Ring, which would either control them or force them to stop using their rings. While the Dwarven Rings were touched by Sauron and had more of a corrupting influence as a result, corruption doesn't automatically mean that the ringbearers serve Sauron. They might produce "rogue" Nazgul who act as they choose because Sauron has neither the One Ring nor their individual Rings in his possession. I agree that the reason the Nazgul do not wear their Rings is because Sauron needed those Rings to control them in the absence of the One Ring. Logic: if destroying the One Ring dispersed most of Sauron's power, reducing him to a shadow of malice with no form, then destroying any Nazgul's Ring would likely result in them succumbing to the Doom/Gift of Men and dying final deaths.