Augustus the Butcher?: Proscriptions of the 2nd Triumvirate
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- Опубліковано 29 лип 2023
- Today, Augustus Caesar is remembered as the (mostly) benevolent, hyper-competent first emperor of Rome, and is often thought to be among history's all-time great leaders. But you can't make an omelette without cracking a few eggs, and you certainly don't become emperor of the most powerful nation-state of the ancient world without a few people -- or possibly many thousands of people -- dying in the process.
In this video, we look at the readiness of Augustus and his fellow triumvirs, Antony and Lepidus, to have their political enemies hunted and killed. It would solidify their hold on the moribund former Republic, but at what cost?
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Julius Caesar's fatal flaw was that he was too nice to his enemies. He usually pardoned them after he defeated them. Then, eventually, they literally stabbed him in the back. Octavian noticed this and decided not to make the same mistake.
I agree, Caesar sought to be a transformative leader but unfortunately his “new way of conquest” never actually won the senatorial oligarchs over to his side
@tribunateSPQR TY. I point this out as a defense of octavian's ruthlessness
Agree. Caesar even inspired the writer of Luke
Caesar when his assasins showed their intent: "I have forgiven them that they might murder me!?"
Jesus while being crucified: "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do!"
It should be remembered that of the leading assassins, a great number of them were actually ex-Caesarians that served under him in Gaul and the civil war. Brutus and Cassius are the ones people remember, but nobody thinks about Trebonius, or Decimus, or Casca, or Cimber, all of whom were Caesar’s men.
Caesar didn’t die out of his mercy, he died because he went too far with his ambitions of permanent rule in too short a time.
A great doc. "The Snake Octavian" is my submission.
We’re doing our part to expose this aspect of his life and career, hopefully we can make a dent in the uncritical reputation he currently enjoys
Ronald Syme wrote one of the best books on Augustus; and how he was an absolute butcher; but look at what immediately preceeded him. Marius vs Sulla civil war years of bloodbaths. The Pompeii that Ceasar beat was called adulescentulus carnifex for killing teenagers related to the opposition. Caesar spared everyone he beat and they killed him for it!! There's no forgiving in late republic Rome. Augustus is known as first Emperor because He and his Triumvirs wiped out the party of nobles that previously won the conflicts. Then he spared Lepidus and crushed Antony; and there was nobody left to kill him to try to bring back the madness of a Republic of Greedy Warlord Nobles looting all the other Mediteranean Civilizations
WE have content planned that will explore the proscriptions of Sulla and other warlords that will place Augustus' actions in context. I certainly don't mean to imply that he was the only one engaged in proscriptions as it really was a standard practice. Caesar's clemency (though admirable) did end up biting him in the ass, Octavian, Lepidus and Antony were certainly determined not to let that happen to them but I think they overcorrected a bit too much
I knew about Cicero's, but was unaware of the massive bloodshed caused by Octavian...
He wanted to make sure there was no one left standing that could oppose him. Unfortunately, he was quite successful
This channel is really underrated. Keep up the great work!
Thanks so much for your encouraging comments!
Very well made video on a fascinating subject
Thank you!
Very interesting - thanks for shedding light on this
Happy to do it!
This is why I think everyone needs to stop using Robespierre as the metaphor for violent societal purge.
Yes. Purges like this happened long before him, long after him and unfortunately will likely continue into the future
Caesar lived through the proscriptions and saw people he knew being killed and didn't want to do the same to his enemies. Octavian did not live through them. He simply did not care .
Really great analysis
This was amazing
Thank you!
@tribunateSPQR this is my new favorite channel, by far. Absolutely captivating
I would love a video on the primary sources regarding this proscription (I probably spelled this wrong)
I love learning about history because it never ceases to amaze me what our human ancestors somehow endured and it always feels like a little golden treat to find out something like this that I was blissfully unaware of. Just another virtually unbelievable facet of human history
This has such a strong resemblance to how Augustus is portrayed in HBO's Rome - just a pure sociopath
I think You had to be to make it as far as he did
Is he a sociopath or just a reasonable man who saw how the Gracchi, Saturninus, Memmius, Marcus Lucius Drusus, the elder Brutus, the elder Lepidus, Caesar, etc. ended up by not breaking out Sullan/ Marian tactics?
You guys really should do a video about Sertorius.
We are 100% getting to him eventually - his guerrilla war in Spain as the last Marian holdout is fascinating and offers tons of opportunities to comment on the politics of his day
You remember Maecenas here but not in your Rome video v)v
well in fairness a bit more research went into this one
2:05 Romans doing what Romans do!
It’s certainly a recurring theme, and the one conqueror who neglected to do this (Caesar) ended up paying for it
Yeah, Augustus doesn’t really seem like the kind of leader he pays propagandist poets to say he is
There’s definitely a reason he had to pay people to say nice things about him
Finally someone knocks the pretentious princeps down a peg
Someone had to do it
Nah this channel just has a grudge against him.
@@traiascacodreanu4553 bc he was a wuss and a prude who was happy to have other people commit violence for him but was always "sick" when it was convenient. Plus his stupid moral laws as Emperor. Fuck Octavian
Rome was plagued with political factionalism and huge wealth inequality. The wealthy concentrating more and more lands and running large slave farms while more and more people became rebellious landless poor. The proscriptions directly and indirectly solved two of Rome major problems allowing for a strong and stable regime. The proscriptions were necessary to end a social and political situation that led to multiple civil wars.
such a great channel
Thank you!!
Brilliant video.....ive been reading steven saylor books he mixes fiction with real history and they are really good
Thanks! I love his Gordianus the Finder series, they’re great little mysteries packed with great historical details
@tribunateSPQR brilliant.. I've just finished roman blood and now ordering the rest
Good work! One little misstake at 3:20. This map shows the partition after the victory against brutus and cassius, not after the battle of mutina.
Whoops! Good catch, and many thanks. - Titus
Ancient, modern, and religious...
Caesar Augustus: Prince of Peace, Commissar of Blood
Obama: Prince of Peace, King of Drones
Yeshu Ha'Nozrit: Prince of Peace, Tsar of the no-shows
Sacrifices have to be made for the greater good
Perhaps - but it wan't the Triumvirs making any sacrifice here, they were condemning others to death to shore up their own absolutist political power. It's easy for leaders to demand that others make sacrifices but rarely are they willing to make any themselves
you've been added to the proscriptions list, the state needs your property. Sorry bud
👍👍👍
Still the best emperor
do not retvrn
Here’s hoping we never retvrn- History can show us where we’ve come from but not where we should go
@@tribunateSPQR hell yeah comrade
Vaxxed?
I’m not ruling it out
Tone deaf conclusion,Augustus was in deed beloved and ushered Pax romana one of the best periods in History,lame.
Octavian did nothing wrong