CNC Lathe Turn BALANCING A V8 Crankshaft ... It Did NOT Go Well!
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
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Today we're working on @ScannerDanner 's 483ci Big Block Mopar for his Dodge Power Wagon. We're wrapping up the machine work with balancing the rotating assembly!
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#bigblockmopar #cnclathe #customenginebuild
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Would it do anything for idle quality to balance a stock engine within less than a gram? To balance a nickle on the engine while running at idle?
@@joseantoniocastrellonjr2568 Might, if you have aftermarket solid metal motor mounts.
Watching you two work and learn together is a real treat. Watching a son getting into his stride as a machinist is, I'm sure, making a father's heart swell with pride. That definitely makes for a Happy Father's Day!! Keep up the good work and keep having fun!
Thanks for taking the time to watch! I’ll be honest we were not having much fun by the end of this, but the result was satisfying and we learned a lot!
I dont care at all about the time! To get this kind of service and have it all filmed? I mean, who gets to have that?? No one!
Love what you guys have done and continue to do. My son Caleb and I will be making the trip together and filming it when it is time to pick it up. Happy Father's Day to you both!
Absolutely awesome comment, and we agree! We love your channel as well, just so amazing all the skills you have as well as this father son team! Awesome to watch!
@@ronaldstewart1094 thank you! My son Caleb and I are too a father and son team 😊
The cleaning guy is gonna make a great machinist some day. If anything, he's a patient listener.
And a firm believer in PPE when starting a new process!
@JAMSIONLINE love these more in depth videos. We used to do no drill balancing on high revving (14000rpm) cranks. We found the best place to start is with a heavy chamfer on both sides of the counterweight. The closer you get to the crank centerline the less the material removal affects balance. We'd also reduce the radius on both ends of the counterweight by 030 about 1" with a grinder to ease the inturrupted cut on the machine.
Interesting idea!
Thanks for watching and for the comment!
"Sometimes the young kid knows more than the old man." Best quote in the whole video. But, I would say knows different things than the old man. No substitute for the decades of experience, and also, numbers, math, and engineering doesn't lie. The two of you are a great combination, and it's great to watch you work together with mutual respect and each learning from each other. Happy Father's Day!
FWIW : Years ago my machinist friend balanced my crank his method he told my was he always removed half that it asked for then re-spin it and see how much it changed he ended up much closer than it had originally it told him!. He then made a small change on 1 end then spun it again it was nearly perfect so that is where he stopped. He said in his experience it was always better to take out less material a than have to add. Not sure this is of any help or not!
Just an observation about your imbalance after removing material 3/4 inch in diameter by 3/4 inch deep. The center of mass of the material removed is at a smaller diameter of rotation. It's not the same as removing the weight from the surface. I would think that would affect the balance differently. I do like your videos.
Videos are well produced with good camera work. Very resourceful with the number crunching. Machining is on point. Very enjoyable to see. 👌
Thanks for watching!!
@@JAMSIONLINE You're very welcome.
My dad was an old school machinist back in the day and I wish he hadn’t switched careers, and that I’d had gotten a chance to learn machining from him. He’s still around, but retired as a truck driver for UPS after putting himself out of the machining business by building the parts for CNC machines which took away his job.
Awesome sticking to the process and making it as close to perfect as possible.
Maybe next time, try to do a chamfer on the counter weights before you do your last cut or before drilling. Overall, I think you did a great job with the spreadsheet and learned a bunch about where and when to take weight out to manage the location of the drilling. Awesome content! Thanks!
Agreed. Leaving razor sharp edges like that gives me the willies.
One good thing is, you're both already learning CnC and myself personally, I'm not a fan of CnC but I do see it's uses and needs. Truly enjoy watching father and son work well together. I think, between you 2, you're both figuring this out and doing it your way so, KUDO's. It's really good to see that you're both learning this together and you're coming up with your own way of doing this along with a "cheat sheet" more or less.
I'm sure the owner is super appreciative of all the hard work you're both putting into this engine.
Look at it like this it's a learning experience for both of you, you guys are just getting into the balancing gig , the man that does my cranks told me he messed up a bunch of cranks when he started building race engines
Overcoming a challenge and acquiring the needed results is the goal's ! Thanks for sharing !
My overall thought is the source of the issue (too long a weight) should be fixed first. I have adjusted vibration on many things in aviation that usually have a limited amount of adjustment locations -airplane props and helicopter rotors. The discrepancy is that the counter weight is too long for those pistons and the gross adjustment should be to grind or machine the “curvular” until the imbalance is @ TDC. At that point the lathe or a drill can be used as a fine adjustment.
I love watching you guys work together. My son never was interested enough in what I was doing to learn.
Fantastic video, I rebuilt engines for a living many years ago for flathead forklifts, but you guys are too precise for me, but I love it. Now 75 years old and still learning from you !
Love to hear it! Thanks for watching!
We like going over the top lol
I rebuild lawnmowers completey by eye and ear lol this is almost overwhelming 😂
_"One good turn deserves another!"_ as the old saying goes, congratulations guys, great work!
Having counterweights on either side of the end journals could have allowed you to take some of the imbalance weight off of the inner one too.
To have been able to make cam shaped cuts on those counterweights would have been interesting.
Would be nice! Might be something we have to try in the future on a mill!
@@JAMSIONLINE I was going to ask: Can that lathe move the cross-slide fast enough to make cuts that aren't concentric with the axis of rotation? From this comment, I assume it can't.
The only thing you didn't do was on the counterweight unit chapter the edges which would have helped. Can even the inner counterweight take a little weight off. One of my favorite things was bouncing motors. The balancing of the rotating Mass. The Mercedes motor was the most accurate rotating Mass but the rods and pistons were so far off specially the small ends on the rods.
Love the new shop, and equipment! Looks like everything is coming together nicely! You guys are awesome! Love the videos! Thanks 😊
Great Video Guys, I don't think any shop would go this far for a customer! Nice job!👍👍👍👍
I have so enjoyed watching this series of videos on ScannerDanner's motor! Great job!
Why not do more grinding on the outside edge to move the center back towards the counter weight?
Also I would have done some tapered knife edge grinding on that one edge to remove weight and get it back closer to the middle of the counterweight
The deeper you go, the less effect it has on balance per gram removed. Thanks for your time, Pete in South Carolina
I would only remove 10to15 Thousand max at a time! I know that it takes longer to get the job done but you’re lathe and floor will not shake and make you feel like the crank will fly off the lathe! I’ve done a lot of machining and doing this will make a huge improvement ! You Guy’s are doing a great job! I would bring all of my stuff to work on! Love your videos! Look forward to seeing more videos!
If you use a four jaw chuck you can lathe the counter-balance with the machined portion centered over the the point where you want to take material off. Just plane and center the crank on the lathe with the center of the portion to be removed centered on one of the jaws. Then snugly set the jaws not on center and then move the centered jaws in such a way that it moves the crank out half the distance you need to remove. Use the insert to get this close. Then tighten all the chucks. Then when you lathe the counter-weight the removed portion will be in line with the balance point.
I like taping the rod balancer to the scale. Good simple idea. I always get annoyed how it moves when I balance a rotating assembly.
Extraordinary video, with fantastic in-depth mathematical processing.
LOVE your videos. Hope the customer's not paying by the hour! 😂
Even if he was..... it would be worth it ! ! !
@@brucejones2354 yea I gotta tell you, I don't think many accessible machine shops pay attention to detail like these fellas. It's really a treat watching them work and problem solve!
@@brucejones2354 right? And for me to be able to watch what's being done? Yeah, that's extra for sure!
Mass further from the crankshaft centerline has a far greater effect on balance than mass near the center.
Sorry I haven't been able to watch the live telecasts lSt couple of weeks, but boy oh boy, that new cnc lathe will let you do some serious refined work,,,, that was a fantastic final result,,, .2 and .3 gram from perfection is far better than I've ever heard of,,,, and I'm sure customer Paul will be happy with the delay once that beast is fired up, run in and tuned in the vehicle,,,,, was wonderful watching this entire process so far
I wonder how many shops would say "good enough" and send it? Watching you guys trouble shoot and stick with it was rewarding. Way to go!
I seen a video on tire wheel balancing where instead of putting the weight right at a particular spot the amount of weight that was added was split in half and each amout was moved away from the point indicating where it was supposed to be to have been place with better result in which they called it dynamic balancing
Oh man, when the camera panned to your dad and he's wearing his motorcycle gear I died laughing. I accidentally woke up my wife asleep next to me. Keep up the good work gentlemen.
I wonder if maybe you could just put it on the crankshaft grinder with the chucks locked and grind out very slowly what you need to centered on your max imbalance point. I bet stone would get fouled quickly but eventually, you'd get there. Sort of a weird situation here. Crank would definitely look goofy but would still be strong. You'd need a junk crank just to test this unless you're brave
So glad to see the progress in one instead of waiting weeks
Glad Nick has got this, me I will go sweep the floor.
This is the best v8 balancing video I've seen so far. I like the "sneak up on it" approach to machining.
Rodger whipp turned cranks all his life And held a speed record at Bondville salt flat and was my friend big age gap but as a teen i looked up to him as a hero he was in his 70s when i was 17 he was a bad ass
This is the kind of stuff that I am interested in, and that makes you the better machinist / Mechanic / Engineer than 10 000 others out there.
I really enjoy your channel!!! But I'm a little sad that we didn't get a corn planting video!!!!
What would I have done differently? Start with grinding the end of the counterweight on the heavy end to push the hole needed to the center of the counterweight and then turning the OD of the counterweight, and touch it up by drilling.
After the sheet gets corrected with more confirmation…it’ll be a great help…it already is
You guys make such great videos.
awesome work ! less than 1/2 gram each end I'd be doing backflips
What about making a knife edge on the crank throw since you're removing material anyway?
Great job on the crank shaft! Happy Father's Day to both of you and the other Father's on here.
Have you ever tried drilling a bit shallower so you can tear drop the hole in the direction of rotation?
You could ask cutting edge engineering , he is a lathe operation in his own shop .
When you were out in the middle of nowhere you could have also taken a little off the rod throw, i like to take a heavy chamfer on the original hole in the throw. And also little more off the counterweight you probably could have made it come in without having to fill the hole. Balancing can sure be tricky though!
Very cool! It seems like with this process, it would be helpful to always take material off the side of the imbalance that would drive it closer to the center of the counterweight. Especially because you are both lessening your margin (by turning on the lathe) and chasing two imbalances at once. Drilling is nice and seems faster and more precise than grinding, are there any other reasons you prefer drilling?
Happy Father’s Day, Jim!! You’ve done a fine job getting Nick prepared !!!
Awesome job guys 🎉keep up the good work 👍
I'm looking forward to the 327 stroker build :)
Hi guys, happy Father's day, to save the birds from flying into the windows cut out a bird or owl from black paper, birds dont understand what glass is so they try to fly thru, so the cut out will stop that, after you tape the cut out to the window
I found this quite interesting. The excel and math showed some insights. A university has its uses! What I find curious in this, and earlier ones is why does it only have the balancing feet/sensor things at two points? Would it not be easier if it had four points and remove at the inner throws too? Is this idea just overkill, or a real thing with more expensive machines?
Very interesting, I learned a lot, Thank you. This is worse than balancing tires because on a crank you have to drill or weld. On tires, just add or remove weights, or rotate the tire with respect to the rim. PS. I like your Haas lathe!!!
I would remove the crankshaft out of center by removing just enough of the counterweight to eliminate the need for drilling.
Remove a wedge of material.
Can this be done on the lathe?
It could be aligned in the same way in a chuck with four jaws. Calculate the weight of the required triangle beforehand.
what about adding weight in the thru holes on the rod throw to offset the issue? I.E. welding a slug in? it would reduce the hole depth to something manageable wouldn't it? its also very simple to check without doing anything permanent
Does your spreadsheet account for the distance from centerline for the weight you remove? As far as I am aware the balancer gives you grams at the center of the big end, which would be half of your engines stroke. If you remove weight further away from the centerline, you need to remove substantially less weight to make it compensate for the further distance.
17:10: No, the Inertia increases as the square of the distance from the axis of rotation. (I=m*r²)
"Curvular"..... I'm going to add that to my vocabulary. Anyway, great video.
I think that if you had drilled a hole first and then cut you might have been in a better place. I'd consider a smaller hole towards the leading edge then cut the balance weight. You have now a better feel of the xyz of removing of weight will have on balance. It's another option to consider.
Your method will get you there but there were a lot of steps. I feel that you have a good idea but need to develop it.
Thanks for a good video with all of the tech issues included.👍
Instead of drilling holes for balancing could you mill a shallower longer slot on the counterweight ?
I’d imagine the wavy look to the finish might have something to do with forging or casting method.
I know it’s been over a week but too bad you don’t have the mill head for the router that would allow you to mill an eccentric counterweight that way you could dial the mass removal back to where it needed to come from.
Amazing wrk guys
I like to learn from other’s mistakes. That way some things I do aren’t mistakes.
Why would you not bore a hole through the counter weight (sideways) centered on the imbalance point?
Love your videos, my compliment on the editing, it's really good! Happy father's day!
Brilliant video
Old guys used to tell me before I become an old, that you sneak up on it when you are unsure. Otherwise small cuts low speed!
Interesting video guys, all is well that ends well.
And I always wondered how an engine is balanced, still not sure what the term blueprint means.
Happy Father’s Day to the both of you Nick and Jim. Thank you for sharing this video.
Great video!!
Do you leave the edges sharp?
interrupted cuts, never fail to make everyone subconsciously reach for the Emergency Stop button....
Good content and thanks 🔧🔧👍
AT SOME POINT I BELIEVE THAT YOUR MARKS GOT READ AS ONE OF THE OTHER 🎉🎉
In the future, when you do an engine like this to be nice if your customer would come around and you guys could maybe take a ride and video it pop the hood let us hear the motor be cool in a row Jim from Kennerdell PA
This engine is another UA-camrs, so there will at least be videos of this one back in the vehicle.
Better to take weight of ends of counter weight webs.
I guess I don't have a full understanding of the balancing process. Why do you not balance all of the counterweights only the front and back?
Would I have done something differently? Hell no, I would still have sent it to you guys if I could. This the the time that it costs you in labour hours to get it done right. All who build performance engines at home should watch these videos to see why the machining bill is so much, it really explains it clearly.
Is the encoder incremental or absolute?
Happy Father’s Day to you both.
Jim you really need to teach the young fella the KISS PRINCIPLE
You miss the entire point of this channel. The goal is not to keep it simple. The goal is to push our level of perfection and learn something new daily. If this were a normal shop we would keep it simple, but it’s not. It’s a UA-cam shop, and we have the luxury of spending more time in the pursuit of perfection.
Not sure if utilizing KISS is the way to go either, crankshaft balancing is tough, you have to balance a lot of cranks to get really good at it but also when something isn’t going right it can be hard, is this the most perfect balance job? No. But they are learning with new to them equipment. I balance 50-100 cranks a year and still have some things that makes me scratch my head, would I weld 40 grams into a crank? Nope. But sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do!
Instead of just removing a circle of steel, why would you not have the cutting tool move in and out so it cuts a declining valley where the actual weight removed is. So the material removed looks like a funnel shaped dished in area where the lowest point is located right on the mass removal line.
Gravity in you shed is a constant, so it's OK to say weight as well as mass.
After that amazing and (brain) hard labour trials,,, i´ve learned that in the future , maybee you can... After inicial Balancing reads ... STEP1 - grinding right away ,,, then balance read again ,,, if needed fine tune griding.... and then Trough your amazing formula maybee you can almost balance it just with the CNC removal .....
PS ,, love your beatifull Father son relation ,, wish i have had the same when young💗 ,, cheers
Can you put link up for the excel spread sheet you were using to calculated?
Great work but why not turn all the counterweights?
The absolute best part of this video is that you didn't call the damper a dampener. I'm so tired of hearing dampener instead of the correct term, which is damper. Thank you!
How about "line" boring instead of ALIGN boring?
@@Wheel_Horse Good luck with that one - line-boring is here to stay, I'm afraid.
Pzuh pzuh position of imbalance 😅
Happy Father's Day Dad
2x2 is 3.9 rounded to the highest power lol 😆 😂 🤣
Its gonna be a very nice engine i think...🎉🎉🎉
The imbalance from yesterday won't be the same after the first Cuts you made. So the imbalance on the other counterweight will not be in the same spot wrong
Im thinkin three holes is better than one😮