JD Payne & Patrick McKay talk Rings of Power Season 2 and beyond...
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- Опубліковано 8 жов 2024
- Chatting with The Rings of Power showrunners JD Payne and Patrick McKay about Season 2, Celebrimbor, Adar, the Gandalf decision, handling criticism, and which character(s) may step up in Season 3! And yes, I also ask what the deal was with "the kiss"...
#theringsofpower #lordoftherings #ringsofpower - Розваги
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This is why I so often gravitate to this channel. Not disrespectful, not aggressive, passionate, true to themselves, and shows so much love and joy even during topics he disagrees with. Really stand up guy
I'd almost gurentee hes cringing along with the rest us behind the scenes. If you aren't cringing AT THE LEAST to these 2 guys butcher tolkien then I envy you. They didn't know who Gandalf was when they introduced the character 😂😂😂😂😂 that sealed the deal for me.
I like that he's not prepared to call out a huge profiteering global corporation over its blatant twisting of Tolkien's vision
He didn't have to be aggressive or disrespectful to them. All he had to do was ask them why they changed the story so fundamentally(and they did) that it bears little resemblance to what Tolkien wrote but he didn't do that. Whatever his reasons were he chose not to put them on the spot and explain themselves.
Agreed. Media criticism can’t always be a level 999 scandal all the time. It’s exhausting. Yes, there’s a ton of wild decisions here. Yes, Tolkien would have abhorred it. Yes, we can talk about it like literate adults and view through one of the *many* lenses besides internet outrage. 🙄 NotR’s approach is so much more edifying than all the ALL CAPS UA-cam reaction sludge
For sure, the way Matt carries himself is something else. Not just in these interviews but also in episode reviews he discusses things he doesnt like very respectfully. Because unlike others who hate the show, he truly wishes for things to be better because he still is happy to get a middle earth adaptation. A stand-up guy indeed.
Thank you, NOTR, for asking the Wizard question right out of the gate. I enjoyed how you openly and diplomatically represented the Team Blue community.
You should be hired as consultant for this show 100%
they have enough amateur writers. Don't give them ideas.
They've already got Simon Tolkien himself. It'd be awesome if Nerd of the Rings was there too, but I don't think they will
So much yes!
This show needs experienced writers not consultants
@@KnudAutlermann You mean the Tolkien that hates his grandfather? It all makes sense now.
Great interview, Matt. Even more thrilled you did this interview than the ones with the actors, just because I know that you don't always agree with the showrunners' choices, and it's nice to see---in this awfully divided world---people able to talk in a friendly, respectful way even when they disagree on things. Keep being that ray of fairness in a hate-filled landscape!
Amen brother!
THIS.
💯. The degree of self control and lack of anger is somewhat astounding. Can you imagine if all the internet was like this?
One can be calm and still be be pressing towards the interview This seems like an inside the episode, where the showrunners play their song and dance. When they say something as abysmal as " we weren t sure about who he was either" he could have jumped in and cook them. This is enabling. I know Notr can do much better than that when it comes to criticism. I d like to ask the showrunners for example:" would you kiss your mother in law as a sign of affection?"
Great interview from Nerd of the Rings. I do unfortunately think JD and Patrick are in over their heads and don't have clear vision for this show.
The fact that they didn’t know who the stranger would be from the beginning makes so much sense as to why it felt so off from the beginning.
One of the greatest things about Matt getting these opportunities is that moment right there at the end. The showrunners asking someone who is SUPER knowledgeable on Tolkien for any criticisms or thoughts. A viewer not involved in the show in anyway, but who is so deep in knowledge of the lore is only a good thing!
Also asking the Gandalf and the Kiss questions was everything I wanted!🙌🏼
It also can’t be understated how great it is that they ask this question in the first place. It shows they are genuinely trying to make a good show and want to listen to criticism. That being said, they should also stick to the story they set out to tell.
@@fgdj2000 Bro what? If they cared they would have asked for a consultant before shooting the show. Now they only ask these questions to pretend they care. You cannot seriously believe this season was created by someone who had respect and cared for the source material. Don't be so gullible guys. The only reason they even give interviews like this is to do damage control.
@@fgdj2000 I beg to differ, respectfully. The guys are very good at selling themselves, but if their goal was to stay true to the essence and spirit of Tolkien's works, why did they fire Tom Shippey (THE Tolkien expert) as consultant?
You say they are "genuinely trying to make a good show". Well, they should try harder. I applaud the effort, but their intentions do not change the result. And the result is a mediocre TV-show with an insane budget that fails to be captivating or exciting or entertaining. And if its not entertaining, the casual viewers abandon the show (which already happened in S1) and the fans start scrutinizing and pointing out the many many lore deviations, character changes and plotholes.
@@a_kazakis Simon Tolkien is a consultant for the show, it is not that they don't know stuff is about how big studios work out of marketing and numbers and how those affect the stories these creatives are trying to tell
After hearing these two talk now everything makes sense 😅
I can’t watch this channel anymore. It’s obvious these guys couldn’t care less about Tolkien’s original work. Nerd of the ring seems to be totally fine with it. Disappointing to say the least.
@@taylorwright1967Its not that deep. Matt just covers everything Middle Earth.
He goes against the shows writing a lot. The main difference is just he does it respectfully. Like the Elrond/Galadriel kiss or the Wizard being Gandalf.
You should not watch a TV show where you need parts explained by an outside source.
I've watched S2 and it's OK. It's better than S1 but 2/10 stars is still better than 1/10.
@@taylorwright1967 you do realise that Matt does give fair negative criticism towards the show also? Go touch some grass and chill
@@marcognudi664 Yep. He wasn't happy about the 2 Durins, He said he felt ill when Elrond and Galadriel kissed, The Orcs having families, The Hobbits in general, The stranger being too on the nose when he could of been so much more and plenty of other things he's openly said he wasn't overly happy with.
People do like it and if Matt is uploading content for those only. Then you have a point. I think he's been quite fair with the reviews and pointed out the parts that are not Tolkien.
They look like enthusiastic, great guys, but honestly...
1. They did not know one of their main character backstory (turns out he is Gandalf) until end of season 1 (I mean how is that possible?). They even proud of this fact.
2. They clearly did not know about Galadriel-Elrond relationship and connection. If they do knew about it, then the kiss was a very strange decision.
3. Patrick McKay said they turned down the critics because they already discussed everything...
Plus they are absolutely untalented as writers. Zero clue of pacing, character/world building and time/distance management.
@@klodd5328the dort even know basic things: Show don't tell, as you know Bob etc.
Patrick saying things like he learned elvish (rather then Quenya or Sindarin), referring to "Istars" rather then Istari, etc indicates to me someone who has only superficial knowledge but either thinks that he has or is pretending to have deep knowledge which explains a lot about how the show is so far off the rails.
Edit: Regarding your point #2 they specifically refer to knowing about the eventual Elrond-Galadriel relationship but "didn't think that it would be a big deal".
I gotta say these interviews that you do are invaluable. They allow us to see into the production process and see what the producers had in mind when making decisions. As mere viewers we don't have the power to do this but you do and you do it with the experience of devoting so much into Tolkien's works. Can't thank enough.
Well said. Though i don't think they had anything in mind.
Matt’s face when they’re answering about the kiss is EVERYTHING 😂😂😂
So even the creators didn't know the stranger was Gandalf until the beginning of season 2... ???
red flag for me. introducing a character and not knowing the who he should be??
facepalm
You heard that correctly friend....lmao bunch of bozos 🤡
@@rogerecoff8725 It could also be due to complications regarding rights ownership for using the blue wizards, so they were keeping things open. That being said I was also disappointed in it being Gandalf but I am not feeling hopeless about the choice being bad for future seasons despite its departure from the lore
@@ReinKenobi do you want to know something funny to me? Tolkien never had a clear plan for how the Lotr would end and yet you claim that this is a flaw?
Matt, thanks for asking these guys the questions we all wanted to ask them, especially about the kiss. At least Patrick was honest about his oversight about its impact on the fans, and at least JD owns the fact that they do know about their familial connection. Your ability to share your opinions about the show calmly (operative word CALMLY) and objectively is so refreshing. Thanks for all the great work you do. You are literally my sole Tolkien resource because of that. Much love, bro.
This just shows how clueless these guys are.. they didn’t have a clue that it would be a negative impact. They just thought of it as a spontaneous thing to put in there without thought. It sums up the whole show for me. Thoughtless and brain dead.. why are these guys in charge. Why are Amazon not replacing them?
@@Stepfield "This sums up the whole show for me" 😂 wow talk about being closed minded... At least they admitted that it was supposed to be platonic
Pretty sure when Matt said he is Team blue wizzard, he answers "stay tuned". Isn't that kind of confirming the other one is at least a blue wizard and not saruman? Sounded like that to me but I'm not a native speaker.
I think I saw in another interview that it's not Saruman too
I don't think (hope) it's Saruman, that would be the lamest thing I've ever seen
"We liked the idea of having a wizard who didn't know who he was interacting with some halflings"
"It became difficult to imagine a true LOTR epic without its most beloved character"
"So then we went back and found out that mayybe he might have had a different timeline"
This line of logic is amateurish in the extreme. So they didn't know the lore, they hadn't planned out the story, and they go back and try to find the most dubious justrifications for their whims.
No wonder the whole thing seems improvised.
@@jino901 kinda like the constant revisions Tolkien made as he wrote... lmfao jesus it's like you guys miss the forest for the trees
@mileswright7294 don't compare these guys to tolkien please friend. If this show after 5 seasons with a completed story & it turns out to be a masterpiece then u can say it.
@@mileswright7294 Tolkien revising Tolkien is still Tolkien.
But what they said was true, though?
It's present in, and justified by, Tolkein's own lore.
@@Tar-Elenion and Tolkien famously knew that "other minds and hands" would adapt and expand his legendarium. His words.
Giving me all the Rey Skywalker vibes.
All I heard in their response to the Gandalf question was that they had no plan, and made it up as they went. And that they considered all the other possibilities, but still chose this.
I love the show. But that is really disappointing that they didn't even know who he was, for sure, in season one.
They are J J Abrams pupils, apparently
So... They're just winging it. That's what it sounds like to me.
Pretty much 💀
Ah yes, because the Tolkien Estate, the stingiest IP owners on the planet, would accept a bid from people who are winging it. Get a grip
That's really how most shows go though. Read any behind the scenes for ANY show ever and you'll find out that most of it is just the creators winging it. This isn't exclusive to Rings of Power. It's just how television works sometimes. Not everything can be perfectly planned.
u give me millions to wing it...I'll do it! u got my pen, paper and axe!
Bruh give me a billion dollar budget I swear to god I would have written a better show and I have zero experience
It’s surprising that those two so much in love with Tolkien books are so bad in transforming their good ideas into a real thing. WOW I thought that they just didn’t care. That’s says a lot
“And yes he is kissing his future mother in law…it never struck us as provocative.”
Timestamp?
8:56
Lol well they are both gay sooo can't see why that would bother them .
Bunch of regards
Everything is easy when you don't care.
For some reason these two make me think of Spongebob and Patrick
Well they are about as intelligent as a sea sponge and a starfish so there's that.
Fantastic interview Matt, you asked the questions that needed asking in a polite way ! From the ending it sounds like they take your word very seriously, so we now have a man on the inside! Go make s3 the best ever !
Extremely professional way to ask WTF were they thinking making the stranger Gandalf
@@_RiseAgainst *Grand Elf…
Their own harshest critics 😂 If they were they would have stopped by now.
@@karlos72 hahahahahahaha. You are so funny Karlos. You should write your own one man show. You are the man. What am I saying you are an alpha man!
They look like two super cool guys, but sorry if I sound harsh, but It is not even that they made a mediocre serie, I think they are miscast, not qualified, for such a project.
Absolutely, they are completely inexperienced and not really talented either and sadly it shows.
As a person who's into cinematography and storytelling this show is very, very, very tough to watch.
These guys, these guys are a main issue for ROP. Don’t have any issues with the actors, just the writers and show runners
I understand what you mean, and I agree there have been issues here and there especially in Season 1, but listening to them talk and they are as much of fans for the material as the rest of us, they’re going and doing their research to make a story that’s plausible in the lore with some creative liberties which PJ did as well for the Hobbit and LOTR.
Season 2 wasn’t the best but it was a big step up from season 1 even my wife who doesn’t care at all for this stuff liked the second season enough to ask questions from the books. So if they can continue to do their research and make each season better, it can turn out pretty good. I have cautious optimism for this
Yeah, of all the interviews done by Matt, this is definitely the one with red flags. What do you mean you didn't think that kiss would be badly received by the audience?
I can’t begin to fathom how not knowing who one of the main characters in your story is until after the first entire season of the show is a good idea. I cannot begin to understand how you can not have any plan whatsoever for how the story will progress on such a fundamental level. I am utterly baffled. The show absolutely comes across as messy, haphazard, and nonsensical as a result. I’m floored that you openly admit this is how you wrote the story. Just. It defies belief.
Writer/director/creator interviews are always the most interesting to me. They can give you so much more insight. These two do far to few interviews
I didn't see any writers or creators being interviewed in this video, can you point me as to where to look?
@@pdjinne65😐
You are correct there. The cast seem nice enough but I'm far more interested in what's going on with the writing.
These guys have some good ideas but seem to lack a filter for bad ones too. This job was above them, which sounds really harsh but this is a crazy ambitious task.
I remember being horrified at the scene when Galadriel asked Adar what his elf-name was, i was literally praying "please dont say Celeborn" 😬 these showrunners are capable of great evil
I had the same reaction lmao
The friend I watch the show with predicted Adar as turning out to be Celeborn in-between S1 and S2 and I was horrified at the idea personally. During that scene I was terrified he might be right. Near miss there, near miss.
Really? It never occured to you that the kiss between Galadriel and Elrond would be controversial? Well that explains a lot. These two dudes have no business running a Pinterest board, let alone adapting one of the most hallowed pieces of literature and spending a billion dollars doing it
dang, I thought he was about to throw that Celeborn bomb when he and Galadriel were walking closer and closer 🤣
Thank you so much for putting the Celeborn=Adar thing into the universe.😂 I suppose it isn’t too much worse than my idea that Galadriel would hand over the Nine because Sauron captured Celeborn and threatened to murder him in front of her unless she gave him the Nine.
It's always nice to see a fair interview, but man, just from listening to the thought processes, ideas and interpretations of these tho, you know the show is doomed if they provide the majority of creative input.
This was a fantastic interview, offering valuable insight into how the showrunners approached certain aspects of the series, which helps clarify their vision. It’s also refreshing to see that respectful, good faith discussions can be had with them expressing constructive criticism without resorting to negativity. Because of this open dialogue, the showrunners are receptive to feedback and committed to improving the next season. That openness is wonderful, as any thoughtful input from you will only help elevate the show going forward.
How do you write a show and not know who a character is? Like did they just decide that midway through or something?
Why didnt he ask why Durin was mining with a battering ram?
How to survive fall from cliffs??
What will happen to Glugs baby?
I really enjoy your coverage reads of each episode and it seems they did too. Really a credit to your channel when the showrunners ask you to send them criticism directly. Keep doing what you’re doing.
so, they have no script...
they're playing improvisation theater.
🤯
great Interviewing! great questions, very empathetic thank you for you work!
“He doesn’t know that yet”…. In the CANON, yes, he does know that she’s his lither I law. Leaving out Celeborn is such a massively huge mistake in this show. And their explanation of all the dynamics that were involved in that kiss, none of anything they said was explained in the actual show. At all. Calling me a troll for criticizing very specific complements of what makes this show fall apart, well that’s on you. I’m not a troll. I can just have critical thinking skills.
JD mentioned in the video that they were specifically calling those who are derisive/demeaning toward the cast and crew of the show trolls, not the ones who were actually respectfully/civilly giving their differences of opinion...I think the fact that they welcomed Matt's "good faith" criticism at the end of the video shows this.
So...they have no idea what they're doing, no real plan, and, it seems, they let the story come to them. What a sham.
This might be the most ironic interview I have ever witnessed…
My biggest concern is that in the future, people who are introduced to Tolkien's world for the first time might see this series first and then immediately lose interest in his works, without realizing how different and bad it is compared to the books and films. Rather than leading people to Tolkien, it pushes them away.
Don't think so. The trilogy will always be the blueprint of how to do a LOTR show/movie.
I feel like RoP will soon be forgotten after it was laughed about enough and will stay a stain on Tolkien's legacy (sadly) but not more than that
They did not have the whole story setup before the started shooting 😑😑😑😑😑😑😑 that explains a lot .
No show does that.
@@Carlo_ReNews this is not a sitcom. It's fiction based on an ALREADY EXISTING LORE
@@siegfried19888 Star Wars sequel trilogy all over again
@@georgiosFreeman yes? So what? I don’t see anybody be outraged about superhero movies not adapting anything from the comics what so ever.
@@Carlo_ReNews "No show does that."
Yes there are shows that do that.
And those that don't usually turn out pretty bad.
Please someone tell this guys to go back to writing 101 in high school. Story has more plot holes than Montreal 😂
Kid show business has spoken 😂
Brother thank you I've been saying that since season 1.
The show honestly looks like it was written and produced by middle schoolers with a billion dollar budget and I don't even say this to be disrespectful. I'm 100% serious
I wonder whether the guy without the glasses really read the book. I've read that he's actually the one who wants to put the show in a weird way, while the one with the glasses wanted to make it more lore accurate. I personally feel that the guy with the glasses knows much more about the lore, while the other one rather thinks about what's popular.
That was my feeling as well. Especially with how defensive he was about the kiss... really made me think that was solely his idea.
The fact that they are doing this at all and engaging with people who have been critical of certain elements of the show is a good sign in my opinion. I also appreciate their candidness and the fact that they seem to be introspective and critically analyze their own work. Another great interview!
I enjoyed it. When season 2 started, it seemed like they had listened to some of the, as they call it, “good faith” criticism and fixed a few things. At least they fixed the things I hated about Season 1, including the fact that I low-key wanted to punch Galadriel every time she was on screen.
Love seeing you get these opportunities to talk to big figures behind the Rings of Power series! It’s great that you’re really becoming an intrinsic part of modern Tolkeinism, so to speak, thanks to your UA-cam channel and love for the subject matter.
There is no "modern Tolkienism". Tolkiens works are timeless classics, and there is no need to modernize them. Especially in the way these hacks have done.
@@Elliott666666 I think you’ve misinterpreted me, I mean as in Tolkeinism in the modern age, because he couldn’t be an intrinsic part of Tolkeinism when it first came out because he wasn’t born. So what I mean is the modern landscape of Tolkeinism as a force in the world.
JD seems like he is taking the lore seriously and Patrick doesnt seem to care about it
Neither of them are. They hired a Tolkien consultant for the press run, and included that person at ComicCon when the show was announced. Then they fired that consultant.
My thoughts exactly. Patrick seems to break as much as possible. Maybe JD was the one preventing Addar wasnt ended up as Celeborn or Galadriel-Sauron wasnt in love (this might still happen in the show, I dont trust them). I think this all woudnt strike Patrick as provocative...
22:20 Props to them. I've rarely heard creators be as open-minded cf their work. I wish them success for season 3
I understand the fact that it's hard to get aceess to these guys and you want to grow your channel, dont want to be rude, etc, but i was hoping you would have asked them at least a little more about the flaws in the show that you yourself have talked about in your breakdown videos, apart from the kiss. These are fair questions that Tolkien fans who are giving the show a fair chance find exasperating (the random lore dumps, fast travel, undercooked stories like numenor, there being no consequences for things like Arondir getting stabbed and then being totally fine or the Southlanders believing Halbrand is their king and then its being completely forgotten about), and you have a chance to ask the creators about these things. But in the end it sounds just like an interview from the official Amazon Rings of Power podcast. We discovered almost nothing new here, unfortunately
He 100% does not want to come off as too negative. He gets invited to the previews, gets exclusive interviews because he is the biggest lotr channel out there that's still kind of mild in his criticism.
He does not wanna risk that favourable position so he's being kind of a bootlicker in this interview.
Nice to hear Elendil is going to play a larger role going forward, hopefully Gil-galad as well 🤞 I'm so excited about their arcs
So, regarding the mysterious wizard - they really messed it up in season 1, for which there's been a huge backlash. All their discussions lead to making the wizard into Gandalf. WTF 🤦♂️
5:08 he said stay tuned about the blue wizards!
Yup.. and I watched another interview in which they shoot down the dark wizard/Saruman theory.
@@ArgoX2024Rasputin will be a blue wizard. Mark my words!
@@gffg387 🤣 Rasputin!
He's a blue wizard, no other options now. He's one of the five but not Saruman or Radagast, clearly he's a blue.
I haven’t watched that other interview, but I’m not even letting myself hope anymore. I’ve been hurt too many times by these people 😅
I think their explanations of why they made these decisions should be included at least in the show's X-ray information. People would be less angry at their decisions if they knew at least the thinking process behind them...
It's like sitting down to talk with Sauron AND Morgoth.
I love the show, but these two genuinely worry me. The fact that they seem to have no plan and decided who the Stranger was on the fly is a bit concerning. Patrick doesn’t seem to understand or be concerned about the lore. JD is slightly better on that front but it really feels like they got lucky with season 2 and that they could struggle next season given the quality of the actors they will be without.
Did you manage to interview gandalf and adar as well? Just curious, really looking forward to those if it happened…
Congrats on the interview!!
OK, It boils down to this. Whether you like this show or not there is one thing that no one can deny, not honestly anyway.
These two did not adapt Tolkien's story. They completely re-wrote everything about it.
They changed the characters personalities and motivations.
They changed Tolkien's timeline and sequence of events which is one of the things that dictates Sauron's actions and the destruction of Eregion.
They compressed a couple of thousand years of events into just what, a few years at most and their excuse for doing so is bogus.
They added events, characters and elements that change what Tolkien wrote and created(Mithril was not some super magical element that would save the elves essence from fading for one example)
So no, they did not adapt and tell Tolkien's story, they completely re-wrote and changed it into THEIR story and tried to say "Weeeell this is really a better way of telling it because WE delve deeper into it than Tolkien did."
Tolkien spent his entire life creating his works and his world. He was very meticulous and detailed and specific about how and why things happened. Sure he made changes to the lore over the years which was HIS prerogative however, and this is crucial, that does not give ANYONE else the right to make such massive changes to a story that does not belong to them. The overall themes, motivations, events and the mythic power of the storytelling however were not changed. Payne and McKay did exactly that with this series and it suffers greatly because of it.
They have proven to me at least that they were not up to the challenge of successfully translating Tolkien to the screen and by successfully I don't mean financially or ratings wise. I mean creating something meaningful and lasting. 20 years after this show is over I doubt very many will remember it or talk about it or re-watch it.
So like it if you want I honestly don't have a problem with anyone liking it but don't accuse me of hating just to hate. I have a very good reason for hating it.
Tolkien fans like me have this crazy idea that when we watch an adaption of one of Tolkien's stories we'd like to see the story that Tolkien actually wrote and that's not what we're seeing with rings of power. As I said, you can deny it all you want but you're lying to yourself if you do.
I've loved NotR .. think Matt does a great job .. no problem with him being a fan of the show and the actors .. but these two .. did they remote in for their safety? I imagine most of us Tolkien fans would like to get our hands on em .
this interview was disturbing for the hopes of the show and everything makes sense now why the characters are written as idiots.
“Sends our way? He sends them to UA-cam!” Lmao
Those two should never of been put in charge of something so sacred and special as Lord of the rings.
Really love these interviews - they provide so much insight! Did you ask on why they decided to have the three eleven rings forged first?
I don't buy their answer of kiss gate at all. They knew what they were doing and wanted people to talk about the show.
8:56 "kissing his future mother in law…it never struck us as provocative.” I find that hard to believe. There are many people involved in the conception and writing of the show and none of them had any objections to this? If that is truly the case, then this is proof that Amazon does not give 2 f...s about Tolkien's lore and its integrity. Their only hope was, this series would bring in millions of new prime subscriptions. Well, I am glad that failed.
To be responsible for the biggest and most expensive flop in TV-history must feel horrible.
“He doesn’t know that yet! He doesn’t know that yet!” 🤣🤣🤣😅
@@jibril2473
True but, he did not love Galadriel either. They say the Kiss was a platonic one between close friends but that is NOT the way it comes across in the episode. It very much seems to be a romantic kiss and if they couldn't see that then they are truly clueless.
What do you make of the "stay tuned" aside after Matt mentioned he (like most of us) is mourning the failed "blue wizards" option?
Good interview. Here’s what I noted… JD seems a lot more interested in improving the show with actual helpful criticism to make a better experience for the audience. Patrick just wants to make the show that he wants to see. That’s me reading between the lines. I really like the show but I do feel like the respect for Tolkien lore is lacking to an extent. If I had to compare, Peter Jackson, while also veering away from lore in certain circumstances, still seemed to have more reverence to the story and characters than the ROP creators do in certain situations. Sometimes writers can be their own worst enemy and the biggest compliment I can make is that Phillipa Boyans from LOTR must have had some serious restraint when screenplaying the book to the screen. I think we’re seeing how that restraint is missed sometimes with ROP. At the end of the day, you are making a historic series from one of the most well-respected IP’s in the world. You have to think outside of your typical process and when in doubt, stick to the script. It’s already been written.
Appreciating all these awesome interviews the last few days! 😊
at 19:04 he says Silmarillion is not a narrative of a story the way LOTR is.
I'd argue that more than 80% of it is in fact a narrative. Sure its extremely dense, but I felt that aside from the map chapter, and the last two chapters, it was an incredible narrative.
The Silmarillion is not a novel. Even the romances within The Silmarillion do not personalize the characters or the dialogue the way that a novel would.
It’s more of a collection of narratives that connect together like history, which is why a lot of people struggle with reading it
@@justindevoe9556 i think people struggle because the first chapter is so difficult to read.
Once Morgoth and Ungoliant attack the two trees, it's action packed and I couldn't put it down.
More than a decade ago I gave up multiple times trying to get through that first chapter. I"m glad i finally powered through it.
@@bethholmes53574 The three human stories (Beren and Luthien, Children of Hurin, and Fall of Gondolin), and the build up and aftermath of those very much feel like a novel. Plenty of narrative, character building, and dialogue in those.
I think he means it's not completely written like a novel. It's more descriptive but that shouldn't be a reason
To those criticizing Matt for interviewing these guys :
I think the show is way worse than any show should ever be allowed to be (Tolkien adaptation or not), writing is indescribably bad, costume design, acting can be very low (although the main cast is doing a decent job with the lines they are given), badly paced action, ... That said I'm glad that there are youtubers like NotR who act like proper journalist and don't boycott something like RoP, which is currently the most recent adaptation of Middle Earth out there. He does make fair criticism of the series without spewing hate for views, and gives a chance to those who participated in the making of it (incompetent or not) to express themselves and share their vision.
This isn't Star Wars, guys. Stop the mindless hate. Be respectful no matter what you think of the show. Be critical, but respectful. Lord of the Rings is not based on hate.
Respect to Matt and the channel 🙏
Thanks for another great interview, Matt!
OMG they basically asked you to be a consultant! PLEASE DO IT! I love the series and with your advices it would achieve a new level!! ❤
Excellent interview Matt. Counting on you to send your opinions their way! It sounded like they are really open for it. Maybe you can still save this show!
You CAN tell that they're a pair of huge Lord of the Rings fans/nerds, but a different pair should have been chosen to do this. That's very plain to me.
I absolutely agree with your comment.
why would you ever give such an expensive and vaunted IP to two people who have never done anything like that before. its mind blowing. how many 3456d did they have to 35356t to get his gig?
I think a fantastic part of NOTR is that he acknowledges his criticisms of the show, while also acknowledging the show's strengths. So many of these trolls say the show is a 0/10 or a 1/10, which is certainly not true. It's visually outstanding, the music is incredible, a good number of the performances are done wonderfully, with the highlights this season being Charlie Vickers and Charles Edwards. The writing has flaws, I'll grant, but it's not as though there is absolutely nothing good or compelling about it. NOTR is acknowledging both sides of the show, the stuff he like and the stuff he doesn't, all the while being courteous about it.
first of all, to a lot of people neither visuals nor music can save a bad show. hence, 0/10 or 1/10 can be perfectly legitimate ratings for viewers who mainly care about writing and story. secondly, NOTR has clearly been taking a kid gloves approach with this show ever since it launched. he has good career reasons to do so, but it's silly to pretend this artificial balance is his actual opinion.
You can tell they didn't have a good answer for the damn kiss, lol. Celeborn better come in Season 3 and somehow fix this mess otherwise it's forever gonna remain awful. Speaking of which… Not asking what's up with Celeborn btw? missed opportunity there.
I’m questioning the validity of the claim that either of these guys were deep Tolkien nerds. Their reasoning for all of these decisions sound completely Hollywood.
Hearing this two Ramble on....LMAO Everything makes sense now 🤡🤡🤡
They're answering the questions they were asked.
What do you think an interview is?!
@@GaZZuMand their answers are revealing they have a hollow cranium. That's the point. 😂
@@Nikhil-ty3rk which answers specifically???
@@GaZZuM You really are that thick, are you? E.g. 2:56 , 8:04 ,etc. But someone will deconstruct this interview in some time anyway.
This video says it all. These men are underqualified and have landed a project way too big for them to handle. They seem like two sweet, yet very naïve individuals. To be shocked that a kiss scene between Galadriel and Elrond have sparked reactions amongst viewers is absolutely bizarre. Patrick McKay seems completely out of touch with the fanbase.
Still boggles the mind how these two were given the reins to such an expensive production with no credit to their name. How could you possibly not know what happens in your own show?
I think this interview was great, please ignore the trolls. You even called them out on the questionable moments which not a lot of people would do if put in a position to interview and ppl are still upset lol. Very fair and balanced interview ❤ amazing job. Dont listen to anyone in the comments, great job Matt!! It sounds like theres going to be a plan with all the wizards that they have a 2nd age mission and return and come back 3rd age. I can actually get down with that. Still bummed hes not a blue wizard anit but hey. So now the only issue i have is angry galadriel and the kiss. 1 thing has happened and cant change but I think we will finally see a change in Galadriel not being a angry little elf lol
These guys have some balls.
Thank you for interviewing them both!!! JD & Patrick showcased mental & psychological abuse exceptionally through Lord Celebrimbor & Sauron!!!
Didn’t they? Sauron was at the top of his game this season. I have this weird mental image of Charlie Vickers and Charles Edwards in the makeup area after Celebrimbor’s death, getting cleaned up and making arrangements to meet at their favorite pub.
The playoffs in RoP are great, i feel like sometimes consistency, time or space and the "journey" to reach those payoffs is cut too short.
And please try not to copy-paste lines from PJ's LoTR where they do not belong and/or serve no purpose beside mere far service
it will never be normal to me seeing the insane negativity at merely the idea of interviewing these two. thanks for putting the work in and not giving in to the childish whining some fans wish you’d take part in.
@@jackzilla321 oh no we don't have a problem with him interviewing them. I would interview then too. Our problem is he is not calling them on any of their out house product. Or basically doing an actual interview.
Look at how ppl interview Trump. They go after everything he has ever done. They lie cheat and steal to press him as hard as they can. This has to be a paid pretend interview because all Tolkien fans have actually questions they would want answered. Like what made you think your better than Tolkien and why did you decide to change the entire known history. Why have you gone out of your way to copy better men and pass it off as your own.
Can you actually be creative?
Have you ever run a DND campaign that was not a 1 shot. Or a campaign that required pre planning.
Why do you as the main force or in this case Morgoth, behind the corruption of all middle earth.
Why so much silly stupid cartoon stuff. Why with all the time and money did this Visual pasta vomit stick to the wall. And how did you story board it.
How do you feel about losing over 70 percent of the audience from the first episode of season one, to this episode? How can you justify going on with this project?
What actually qualifies you as opposed to the many others out there with great vision and knowledge of the world to take on and re write it?
He did not even ask how or when they supposedly learned Elvish. Which I personally don't think is true.
He asks no questions of any meaningful or substantive quality nor quantity.
I whole heartedly agree. I find it best not to engage with them. They’re like the guy waving his hands at the camera behind the newscaster. They just want attention. They’re clearly watching the show even though they claim to hate it. And then to follow up and lurk behind every video’s comment section just to be a douche… really puts their priorities and lack of character on display. 🤷🏻♂️
@@TacticalRick507 They're not politicians vying for seats of power in our government. If they were, I'd expect hard-hitting journalism. They make a show.
@@TheHiggybaby true, and all my questions were about things related to the show. Not politics. I just expect any person who is doing an interview to actually interview. If he said chat with. I would not care, totally different expectation. This is why semantics and the differentials there of matter.
@@TheHiggybaby to many, i think lotr is sort of a second religion, there is a tone of criticism of the show that is literally like 'this is sacrilege'. I am a huge tolkien fan, but I also am a fan of good tv shows - most of the issues w/ the show stem from good ol' fashioned tv writing problems, not from their decisions interpreting tolkien. If anything, i've really enjoyed their examination of whether orcs can be redeemed, and Sauron's relationships. Frankly, Tolkien himself would've hated every single goddamn adaptation and nearly every screeching fan of his that we see around us. It's okay to enjoy things Tolkien wouldn't have enjoyed.
What we really need is for Tolkiens' works to enter the public domain - the idea of his family estate indefinitely 'protecting' the poor public from 'bad' interpretations raises the stakes of every single adaptation that occurs. The estate over time becomes further and further from real genuine understanding of what Tolkien would've wanted, not to say they aren't good people (I have no idea!). Instead, we should let people use this near-century old property to make what they want. If it's bad, we can ignore it and move on, if it's good, we can celebrate it and raise it up.
Because we only get 1 adaptation every 10 years it seems, it creates a lot of pressure and fans go crazy when it doesn't meet expectations. If LOTR is supposed to be mythology, it should be owned by the public, like all true mythologies are.
Great interview and questions! Hopefully you send them your Season 2 review when you release it so they can take notes for Season 3. Excited that they might be taking good faith feedback, but the fact that they didn't know who the Stranger was after Season 1 and didn't pick up on community feedback that it should have been a Blue Wizard and not Gandalf between S1 and S2 is concerning.
'Platonic kiss' 🤡
Hopefully we will still get the 2 blue wizards.
I completely get what the showrunners meant about the kiss and I picked up exactly what they were putting down. It seemed like two elves who have known each other for thousands of years saying goodbye possibly forever. They love each other! I was not particularly surprised to see that ancient elves might express affection via platonic kissing. It didn't strike me as romantic or objectionable; it seemed lofty and loving and profound, but not sexual.
Wow good insight into why this show was so bad… Can’t believe that they move forward with so little planning and care.
Great interview. Nice so you can send them your notes for Season 3😅....
Why they talk so fast though?😂
Matt as a consultant on TROP? Yes, please!!!!! ☺ Awesome conversation.
Also, can`t they just slap a wig on Charles, do some make up magic and let`s say call him Celeborn? 😆
Not knowing if he was gandalf or not is crazy. Just make him gandalf from the start or come up with a new character. Changing your mind at the end of S1 is crazy
14:37 the rolled Rs always kill me. It like hearing Americans trying to order in Spanish at a Mexican restaurant.
I don't believe he learned elvish... nope, not buying it.
There is nothing in any of the literature that points to Gandalf arriving in this time period, zero! He did arrive in the first age to help guide the elves and that mission failed and he returned to Valinor. He returned to middlearth at the gray havens and got the ring of power for Cirdan.
"future mother-in-law"??? What? Elrond is already married to Galadriel's daughter at this time period.. AND they have children!
My biggest issue is how the elves are portayed in this series. Elrond, Gil-Galad and Galadriel are 3 of the most powerful elves in middlearth at this time and somehow you made them out to be no better than the 3 stooges. How do you go from the Galadriel of this age to the Galadriel of the LOTR-HOBBIT that blew apart an orc by the swipe of her hand and forced Sauron to flee. Elrond fought of 3 to 5 ring wraiths! And now they get captured by a handful of idiot orcs and give up.
He memorized a few lines from LotR and says that means he learned Elvish.
I memorized those lines near 50 years ago.
Does not mean I 'learned Elvish'.
However, in the books, Elrond marries Celebrian at the start of the Third Age.
Elrond is not at all married to Celebrian at that time period...He only met her way later, and married her at the start of the Third Age, in 109.
@@Tar-Elenion Yes, apologies.. I did get that incorrect. It was after the fall of Eregion when Galadriel and Celegrian searched for Celeborn, I believe it SA 1700(?)...
They didn’t know Gandalf was Gandalf until season 2. Fmlllllllll
I never forgot when in 2008 I was 10 years old and my mother had bought me a ps2 with 3 game discs, one was Harry Potter 3, Bournout Dominator both were PS2 disc but the 3rd disc was a lord of the rings fellowship of the rings xbox disc. That time I had no idea what lord of the rings was and I was disappointed because I was not able to play it because it was not a PS2 disc. And it was the same night when I got my ps2, Lord of the Rings Fellowship of the rings came on and I remembered it being a very long movie, that's how I was first introduced into the world of Tolkien.
Love your videos, how u explain the lore etc but i feel like u should be more critical of the show and their writers for how much they butchered the lore.
These two guys must know that they disappointed and saddened hundreds of millions of Tolkien fans. Shame on them. No criticism for you, because you disrespected us.
These dudes come off so amateur. I do not understand how studios like Amazon are willing to put guys like this in charge of literally the most expensive show ever made. They are actually making up their own show in real time as they go along. It's like some kind of high school theater production.
3:41 I think they are lying here. This sounds so ridiculous
I assumed by this far into their lives, both Galadriel and Elrond were married. So the kiss was weird because she’s married and has a daughter and he’s married to her daughter and has twin boys.
When you hear these two the reasons why this show is so, so incredibly short of its potential become clear. What continues to make no sense is how Amazon didn't realize the same before hiring them, given you only need to hear them 5 minutes to know how things would play out. I guess all that bloat in tech distorts a lot of screening. I also love this goodwill tour with friendly channels (not a dunk on Matt, who's amazing and this falls within his approach to the channel, which is sort of passively pass on information and not his true opinion), as a lot of people here seem to like the show based on the live streams. I guess at this point they just gave up on making any money or having a mainstream successful show, and will try to hold on to teenagers and the tiny fraction of the fans who are too kind to give up on this.