Thank you for the review! Really appreciate the positives you noted that we agree on! My philosophy in life is there’s enough negativity so I just focus on the positives and I’m happy to see we share many! Best wishes!
No problem, I really enjoy your philosophy and I'm certain it will help a lot of people. My only constructive feedback Is getting more research as it would be fascinating to see this done with the exercises in your program done in a progressive manner, im sure the results would be better than other patellofemoral pain research, as often the exercises used in these studies are not great. Also well done on UA-cam, you are smashing it! All the best going forward, I look forward to seeing how the program progresses
@@Physioplusfitness I'm interested in your statement that many traditional approaches to knee pain aren't great. I take it you mean the band work like lying front, back, and side raises. I find the band work tedious and low intensity, and I would love to know how you'd replace some of those exercises. Any suggestions? Thanks for this review!
@@Physioplusfitness If we had to wait for research to prove a thing then the sports/physio world would be decades behind current methods that are proven anecdotally. The whole "this isn't prove through a study" is just a bullshit excuse at this point.
@@bloodwolf2685 The sports/physio world is a never-ending cycle of research. And most well-executed research will always state their limitations/scope and how it could be further improved upon. Anecdotal evidence can be a good factor to consider especially if you're already knowledgeable on the field, but for beginners it's much better to go with the scientific evidence (whether it's through other research or through their own experience by having an expert in the field as their guide)
As a fellow physical therapist, I agree 100% with your assessment and comments. Thank you for taking the time to make this video. I have been using the exercises for a few weeks in preparation for hiking the Grand Canyon and I can tell you that my legs and knees haven’t felt better in years.
I have meniscus tears in both knees and never got surgery because my Orthopedic doctor said it would speed up arthritis in my knees. Knees feel a little soar sometimes but really never get knee pain. I competed in boxing,karate and played basketball,hockey,football and have been strength training for the past 35 years and still work on Sanitation so a program like this would definitely benefit my lower body. I started 2 months ago and my lower body feels so much better.
It takes an open mind to compliment a colleague. The more common tendency is to reflexively criticize. Thanks to PPF for a great contribution. I agree with the notion about anecdotes not being very helpful.
I started doing Tib Raises after John Meadows suggested that you work it to give the appearance of large lower legs. Just like you work your bicep and tricep you need to work both calf and anterior tib.
He is honest about saying alot of his insights are not backed by science (yet! mostly because of it not being studied and not evidence to the contrary)
I used to use this tibialis apparatus at the gym all the time until it disappeared. I always said it was a great idea whoever invented it. Now after finding Ben Patrick I started focusing on the tibialis again. I always had a tight lower body because I have flat feet and I’m on my feet most of the day. When I referee basketball I focus on walking backwards fast.I can get away with that with the younger kids not the high school kids. I’ve been telling fellow referee’s about Ben so they can focus on longevity with their lower body.I bought his Knee Ability Zero book and have been doing his exercises and stretches. Glad I found him. I love the fact that he is focusing on longevity and injury prevention. Most injuries occur because of lack of strength and flexibility in those areas. Love his program
It's good of you to review Ben's ideas & I can see that you understand how his format might be beneficial. However you yourself are stuck in the training & theory of (mostly unproven) techniques that are assumed to be effective by most physical therapists. My experience as a very active nearly 80 year old who has gone through a lifetime of martial arts & physical training, with unfortunately some almost insurmountable injuries, is that I found comfort in PT treatment but never a lasting cure & that goes from when I was young to fairly recently. Until I listened to this guy's explanation of what actually happens with joints or even it may very well be only what he assumes happens, in either case - it just simply works. With his advice gleaned from his videos & book I am rehabilitating myself well beyond what I was formerly led to expect, especially in range of motion of joints handicapped by long term tendon damage. Be well.
Thanks for the review. I incorporate some of these exercises in my morning routine to keep my knees, ankles healthy so I can continue to hike, ski until my golden years
I feel like kneesovertoes guy is bringing unconventional concepts that have been disregarded for years by the industry and bringing them to the mainstream. Reminds me of when the food guide pyramid was being shoved down our throats, later to find it’s a horrible nutritional outline that most people should not follow. I’m optimistic this will change many lives in a positive way. So many of us have bad knees that seem to have little to no solution they know of. I just love we’re getting closer to the truth no matter the conclusion.
I really like his stuff, just like everything else though its not the panacea to knee pain, unfortunately pain is much more complicated than there to be a one size fits all approach. Im sure the program will help a lot of people though so that is great in my eyes.
Enjoyed your balanced and impartial review. I have been searching for a little while to find an answer to the following: what structures is KOT claiming to improve? Without load it’s not strength so is it meniscus? Ligament? If you’re recommending it then what are you recommending for? I have a degenerative tear in my medial meniscus and am genuinely intrigued about the potential benefits of this but am unable to establish what is the structural benefits?
I don't trust the "experts" to always embrace anything new and instead to clutch towards their own past, this being said - anything that increases flexibility can't hurt.
There's also a review by an orthopedic surgeon who has the same reaction to the training and exercises, (and similar comments about cartilage loss and structural / health issues).
Wht about the muscles which moves in front and transverse plane? Adductors, abductors and rotators? Getting stronger in sagittal plane without strengthening other muscles around the joint may cause trouble. But again may be because of full ROM and slow approach might strengthen those synergist muscles as well
Yeah I do agree that multiplannar strength is important, how important is still hard to say as there is not a lot of evidence on this with regards to injury prevention. I think it also depends on the specific demands of the goal/sport that the person is rehabilitating towards. On the whole though I like the rotational and frontal plane movements alongside the sagittal as well though :)
I would say this about loss of cartilage. I think he's mistaking cartilage WEAR over time because of weak, unstable, knees causing uneven pressure and "grinding" on the cartilage, which will give similar symptoms.
Really insightful to get your take. I do have a question: in your opinion, do you think the majority of people should be able to obtain a full range of motion in hips, knees and ankles with enough mobility work? Just asking because I have never been seriously injured, am very active and my ankles have always been incredibly tight, enough to stop me getting into a full (hamstrings touching calves) squat without falling over
Thank you for a great analysis. I see him spouting off repeatedly about this unvalidated claim of losing cartilage because of not putting knees over toes. Where does he come up with some of these bold totally undocumented claims? The worst part is the public doesn't know and better and many take these statements as fact.
No probelm, like I said in the video I think he does a lot of good things and the exercises he is a proponent of I really like, but that doesnt mean that some of the claims made about what they do can't be questioned. Thanks for the feedback
Maybe you can't make the assertion, but could you make the hypothesis that loss of cartilage comes from lack of training in the knees over toes position? I don't see how it could hurt - if you're regressing to pain free levels of exercise.
Thanks for the great video! This is the first review I've seen of TKOTG that had anything at all critical to say. I appreciate that you stated clearly that at least some of what he says is not supported by research. I have a question: I'm 54 years old and in very good shape. I'm a (supposed) expert in calisthenics. But due to my age and the difficult exercises that I've done through the years, I have a lot of joint pain in various places - but probably no serious injuries. I'm in the process of rethinking my workouts to try to rehabilitate my joints and avoid future pain as much as possible. So, bottom line: do you think that the TKOTG approach is a good idea for me?
It is a good idea to a degree but not in the aggressive way that kot explains it. The thing that's horrible is their is so much more important foundational, Motor Control, and alignments based Foundations that are so much more important to focus on first before stretching the outer limits as he teaches. Some things are just downright dangerous especially in the upper body exercises.
Thanks for the comment, its hard to say if it would work for you as I don't know the specifics of your pain and also the specifics of the KOT system when it comes to the exact programming. He comments that a lot of exercises can be regressed so that is a good sign. I would also be aware as I say in the video, that pain is much more complicated than many people give it credit for. Unfortunately there is often not a specific magic exercise or exercises, that would work for everyone as everyone's body and circumstances are so different. My advice would be to see a local physio/movement expert who can physically assess you, take into account your goals and produce a program that is specific to you.
Hey, Do you think you'll do more exercise/ exercise plans reviews? I've always wanted a physiotherapist to look at sports rehabilitation work and actually review it since there's quite a lot of it on youtube and i'm not really sure how much I can actually trust and whats truly based in the science we have now.
Strength is not everything, true. I used to squat 200 kg with good quality. (I squat for over 30 years now.) Then literally from one week to the other I couldn't do air-squats anymore. (MRI showed nothing unusual.) Within 1 year I have worked up the load to 50 kg again. Leg extensions (low weight, high rep) work best. Not much improvement. By the way, did anyone ever request background music for your educational videos? Why do you think it's necessary?
Thanks for the comment and totally agree about strength, the music is just something I'm playing around with but may well do ones in the future with no music.
We all have the same articular cartilage in our knees that like the tyre on a car will wear out in time , so although strength is important , the amount of shock and compression caused by loaded full range exercises and jumping of step ladders is going to cause excessive wear ?
Articular cartilage behaves very differently to a car tyre. Its not the case that the more use the more it wears out. In fact studies now show long term runners have better cartilage health than sedentary individuals. The key is to gradually expose yourself to thse things so that your body adapts to the demands placed on it :)
The adaptive qualities of cartilage can only go so far , I think it’s fair to say most people’s cartilage is pretty worn down in their later years , the effects of running on concrete for instance is and new thing for the human system to adapt to let along jumping off ladders like some influencers
i like his energy, even if only 75% if what he says is evidence based so what. I tend to only look at mobility if I have a problem with something causing niggles for example. So its a frame that would get you to a better place
I agree that doing this will be beneficial for lots of people and I say as much in the video. I really like his stuff. That doesn't mean we shouldn't critique the bits that are not evidence based. Other wise people might watch his videos and think that they need to do these specific exercises or they will need knee surgery which is blatantly not the case.
@@Physioplusfitness i mean all you said here as a critique is that his way of things isnt really proven cuz a lot of factors contribute to someone not having a problem like knee pain but that can be said about absolutly anything but the reaction overall sits good with me
If a 70 year old was training doing for example olympic lifts, do you think his jump ability would be better or worse than using these exercises? As i said in the video itself, I really like these exercises. But there is more than one way to skin a cat. Its not the only way to do things
I did his stuff very carefully for about 8 weeks easing into it hoping my body would catch up. It didn’t, just got patella tendinitis. Put it in the trash can.
I can’t see working calves and neglecting the opposing muscle group. Sounds like a formula for creating imbalances. I have always worked the tibs off and on. Now more on
Dude. He's giving a physiotherapist's point of view. If you already believe kotg is above reproach, then there isn't more to learn. The only critiques were that anecdotal evidence shouldn't supplant evidence supported by data, that cartilage loss is multifaceted, that pain is subjective and one's beliefs around pain can inhibit rehabilitation if not addressed.
Did you watch the video? I really like this guy and say as much in the video. Also, what has how much I lift got to do with my opinion on exercises and rehabilitation? given that I have been a physiotherapist for almost 20 years. Oh and I also do perform these exercises in my workouts and really like doing Nordics and loaded lunges, as well as lots of the other movements he performs, plus have pretty good ability in a lot of these movements. It always intrigues me when people like yourself make comments like this on videos, what did you get out of doing it, did it make you feel good :)
@@Physioplusfitness lol, I saw half and I am not impressed. I rather watch the real ATG stuff, not some “expert”. I don’t feel anything about it really, betas talk to much as I can see. See ya
Thank you for the review! Really appreciate the positives you noted that we agree on! My philosophy in life is there’s enough negativity so I just focus on the positives and I’m happy to see we share many! Best wishes!
No problem, I really enjoy your philosophy and I'm certain it will help a lot of people. My only constructive feedback Is getting more research as it would be fascinating to see this done with the exercises in your program done in a progressive manner, im sure the results would be better than other patellofemoral pain research, as often the exercises used in these studies are not great. Also well done on UA-cam, you are smashing it! All the best going forward, I look forward to seeing how the program progresses
@@Physioplusfitness I'm interested in your statement that many traditional approaches to knee pain aren't great. I take it you mean the band work like lying front, back, and side raises. I find the band work tedious and low intensity, and I would love to know how you'd replace some of those exercises. Any suggestions? Thanks for this review!
@@Physioplusfitness If we had to wait for research to prove a thing then the sports/physio world would be decades behind current methods that are proven anecdotally. The whole "this isn't prove through a study" is just a bullshit excuse at this point.
@@bloodwolf2685 The sports/physio world is a never-ending cycle of research. And most well-executed research will always state their limitations/scope and how it could be further improved upon. Anecdotal evidence can be a good factor to consider especially if you're already knowledgeable on the field, but for beginners it's much better to go with the scientific evidence (whether it's through other research or through their own experience by having an expert in the field as their guide)
As a fellow physical therapist, I agree 100% with your assessment and comments. Thank you for taking the time to make this video. I have been using the exercises for a few weeks in preparation for hiking the Grand Canyon and I can tell you that my legs and knees haven’t felt better in years.
You can see his enthusiasm, as if he discovered something amazing that helped him and now he wants to help others.
I have meniscus tears in both knees and never got surgery because my Orthopedic doctor said it would speed up arthritis in my knees. Knees feel a little soar sometimes but really never get knee pain. I competed in boxing,karate and played basketball,hockey,football and have been strength training for the past 35 years and still work on Sanitation so a program like this would definitely benefit my lower body. I started 2 months ago and my lower body feels so much better.
It takes an open mind to compliment a colleague. The more common tendency is to reflexively criticize. Thanks to PPF for a great contribution. I agree with the notion about anecdotes not being very helpful.
I started doing Tib Raises after John Meadows suggested that you work it to give the appearance of large lower legs. Just like you work your bicep and tricep you need to work both calf and anterior tib.
I got em from John too!
Makes sense when you think about his statement
He is honest about saying alot of his insights are not backed by science (yet! mostly because of it not being studied and not evidence to the contrary)
I used to use this tibialis apparatus at the gym all the time until it disappeared. I always said it was a great idea whoever invented it. Now after finding Ben Patrick I started focusing on the tibialis again. I always had a tight lower body because I have flat feet and I’m on my feet most of the day. When I referee basketball I focus on walking backwards fast.I can get away with that with the younger kids not the high school kids. I’ve been telling fellow referee’s about Ben so they can focus on longevity with their lower body.I bought his Knee Ability Zero book and have been doing his exercises and stretches. Glad I found him. I love the fact that he is focusing on longevity and injury prevention. Most injuries occur because of lack of strength and flexibility in those areas. Love his program
It's good of you to review Ben's ideas & I can see that you understand how his format might be beneficial. However you yourself are stuck in the training & theory of (mostly unproven) techniques that are assumed to be effective by most physical therapists. My experience as a very active nearly 80 year old who has gone through a lifetime of martial arts & physical training, with unfortunately some almost insurmountable injuries, is that I found comfort in PT treatment but never a lasting cure & that goes from when I was young to fairly recently. Until I listened to this guy's explanation of what actually happens with joints or even it may very well be only what he assumes happens, in either case - it just simply works. With his advice gleaned from his videos & book I am rehabilitating myself well beyond what I was formerly led to expect, especially in range of motion of joints handicapped by long term tendon damage. Be well.
Thanks for the review. I incorporate some of these exercises in my morning routine to keep my knees, ankles healthy so I can continue to hike, ski until my golden years
I feel like kneesovertoes guy is bringing unconventional concepts that have been disregarded for years by the industry and bringing them to the mainstream.
Reminds me of when the food guide pyramid was being shoved down our throats, later to find it’s a horrible nutritional outline that most people should not follow.
I’m optimistic this will change many lives in a positive way. So many of us have bad knees that seem to have little to no solution they know of. I just love we’re getting closer to the truth no matter the conclusion.
I really like his stuff, just like everything else though its not the panacea to knee pain, unfortunately pain is much more complicated than there to be a one size fits all approach. Im sure the program will help a lot of people though so that is great in my eyes.
Enjoyed your balanced and impartial review. I have been searching for a little while to find an answer to the following: what structures is KOT claiming to improve? Without load it’s not strength so is it meniscus? Ligament? If you’re recommending it then what are you recommending for? I have a degenerative tear in my medial meniscus and am genuinely intrigued about the potential benefits of this but am unable to establish what is the structural benefits?
I was waiting for an actual exercise specialist with a degree comment on this guy 😆👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Hopefully it made sense! Haha 😄
I don't trust the "experts" to always embrace anything new and instead to clutch towards their own past, this being said - anything that increases flexibility can't hurt.
There's also a review by an orthopedic surgeon who has the same reaction to the training and exercises, (and similar comments about cartilage loss and structural / health issues).
@the kneesovertoesguy changed my life
Bens a genius , follow what he says correctly and you’ll be glad you did
Wht about the muscles which moves in front and transverse plane? Adductors, abductors and rotators? Getting stronger in sagittal plane without strengthening other muscles around the joint may cause trouble. But again may be because of full ROM and slow approach might strengthen those synergist muscles as well
Yeah I do agree that multiplannar strength is important, how important is still hard to say as there is not a lot of evidence on this with regards to injury prevention. I think it also depends on the specific demands of the goal/sport that the person is rehabilitating towards. On the whole though I like the rotational and frontal plane movements alongside the sagittal as well though :)
I would say this about loss of cartilage. I think he's mistaking cartilage WEAR over time because of weak, unstable, knees causing uneven pressure and "grinding" on the cartilage, which will give similar symptoms.
I mostly prescribe tib ant work with a band, but the bodyweight toe lifts are something I will add to the exercise bank.
Defo :)
Great video mate. Informative, constructive tone...
Subbed!
Really insightful to get your take.
I do have a question: in your opinion, do you think the majority of people should be able to obtain a full range of motion in hips, knees and ankles with enough mobility work?
Just asking because I have never been seriously injured, am very active and my ankles have always been incredibly tight, enough to stop me getting into a full (hamstrings touching calves) squat without falling over
I always knew ATG was important af
Full range movement is great!
Thank you for a great analysis. I see him spouting off repeatedly about this unvalidated claim of losing cartilage because of not putting knees over toes. Where does he come up with some of these bold totally undocumented claims? The worst part is the public doesn't know and better and many take these statements as fact.
No probelm, like I said in the video I think he does a lot of good things and the exercises he is a proponent of I really like, but that doesnt mean that some of the claims made about what they do can't be questioned. Thanks for the feedback
Can this be done after ACL has been removed?
Maybe you can't make the assertion, but could you make the hypothesis that loss of cartilage comes from lack of training in the knees over toes position? I don't see how it could hurt - if you're regressing to pain free levels of exercise.
Thanks for the great video! This is the first review I've seen of TKOTG that had anything at all critical to say. I appreciate that you stated clearly that at least some of what he says is not supported by research.
I have a question: I'm 54 years old and in very good shape. I'm a (supposed) expert in calisthenics. But due to my age and the difficult exercises that I've done through the years, I have a lot of joint pain in various places - but probably no serious injuries. I'm in the process of rethinking my workouts to try to rehabilitate my joints and avoid future pain as much as possible. So, bottom line: do you think that the TKOTG approach is a good idea for me?
It is a good idea to a degree but not in the aggressive way that kot explains it. The thing that's horrible is their is so much more important foundational, Motor Control, and alignments based Foundations that are so much more important to focus on first before stretching the outer limits as he teaches. Some things are just downright dangerous especially in the upper body exercises.
Thanks for the comment, its hard to say if it would work for you as I don't know the specifics of your pain and also the specifics of the KOT system when it comes to the exact programming. He comments that a lot of exercises can be regressed so that is a good sign. I would also be aware as I say in the video, that pain is much more complicated than many people give it credit for. Unfortunately there is often not a specific magic exercise or exercises, that would work for everyone as everyone's body and circumstances are so different. My advice would be to see a local physio/movement expert who can physically assess you, take into account your goals and produce a program that is specific to you.
What is dangerous exercise for the upper body you are referring?
@@BODYCOACHable It’s stuff like: planche, front lever, one-arm pull-up, etc. It’s pretty standard for gymnasts, but fairly extreme for someone my age.
Where can I get the block he was using in this video?
Hey, Do you think you'll do more exercise/ exercise plans reviews? I've always wanted a physiotherapist to look at sports rehabilitation work and actually review it since there's quite a lot of it on youtube and i'm not really sure how much I can actually trust and whats truly based in the science we have now.
Defo, any specific people/programs you were thinking of?
Love it, great to hear a physios perspective
No problems 👍
Strength is not everything, true. I used to squat 200 kg with good quality. (I squat for over 30 years now.) Then literally from one week to the other I couldn't do air-squats anymore. (MRI showed nothing unusual.) Within 1 year I have worked up the load to 50 kg again. Leg extensions (low weight, high rep) work best. Not much improvement. By the way, did anyone ever request background music for your educational videos? Why do you think it's necessary?
Thanks for the comment and totally agree about strength, the music is just something I'm playing around with but may well do ones in the future with no music.
We all have the same articular cartilage in our knees that like the tyre on a car will wear out in time , so although strength is important , the amount of shock and compression caused by loaded full range exercises and jumping of step ladders is going to cause excessive wear ?
Articular cartilage behaves very differently to a car tyre. Its not the case that the more use the more it wears out. In fact studies now show long term runners have better cartilage health than sedentary individuals. The key is to gradually expose yourself to thse things so that your body adapts to the demands placed on it :)
You are comparing the incomparable.... knees and care tyres are totally different bro
The adaptive qualities of cartilage can only go so far , I think it’s fair to say most people’s cartilage is pretty worn down in their later years , the effects of running on concrete for instance is and new thing for the human system to adapt to let along jumping off ladders like some influencers
i like his energy, even if only 75% if what he says is evidence based so what. I tend to only look at mobility if I have a problem with something causing niggles for example. So its a frame that would get you to a better place
I agree that doing this will be beneficial for lots of people and I say as much in the video. I really like his stuff. That doesn't mean we shouldn't critique the bits that are not evidence based. Other wise people might watch his videos and think that they need to do these specific exercises or they will need knee surgery which is blatantly not the case.
@@Physioplusfitness i mean all you said here as a critique is that his way of things isnt really proven cuz a lot of factors contribute to someone not having a problem like knee pain but that can be said about absolutly anything but the reaction overall sits good with me
Mr pefect channel. Need to subscribe.
I seriously doubt a 70 year old man could jump a hurdle unless he wasndoing exercises like these.
If a 70 year old was training doing for example olympic lifts, do you think his jump ability would be better or worse than using these exercises? As i said in the video itself, I really like these exercises. But there is more than one way to skin a cat. Its not the only way to do things
Greathelp
I did his stuff very carefully for about 8 weeks easing into it hoping my body would catch up. It didn’t, just got patella tendinitis. Put it in the trash can.
I also got patellar tendonopathy from it and so did my buddy also made my osgood shlatter worse
I can’t see working calves and neglecting the opposing muscle group. Sounds like a formula for creating imbalances. I have always worked the tibs off and on. Now more on
I think I’d rather trust the guy that’s jumping 42 inches and dunking...
Dude. He's giving a physiotherapist's point of view. If you already believe kotg is above reproach, then there isn't more to learn. The only critiques were that anecdotal evidence shouldn't supplant evidence supported by data, that cartilage loss is multifaceted, that pain is subjective and one's beliefs around pain can inhibit rehabilitation if not addressed.
Do your own work !
This dude doesn’t even lift 🤣. Why don’t you try it out mister know it all
Did you watch the video? I really like this guy and say as much in the video. Also, what has how much I lift got to do with my opinion on exercises and rehabilitation? given that I have been a physiotherapist for almost 20 years. Oh and I also do perform these exercises in my workouts and really like doing Nordics and loaded lunges, as well as lots of the other movements he performs, plus have pretty good ability in a lot of these movements. It always intrigues me when people like yourself make comments like this on videos, what did you get out of doing it, did it make you feel good :)
@@Physioplusfitness lol, I saw half and I am not impressed. I rather watch the real ATG stuff, not some “expert”. I don’t feel anything about it really, betas talk to much as I can see. See ya
Where did I say I was an expert? If you were not impressed, no problem. Just crack on with your life. Have a good one 👍
@@Andybluebeld you sound stupid. Well done for embarrassing yourself on a public platform...
@@SP1x5 simmer down hot stuff. KOT guy doesn't need any help. He even dropped a positive comment on this video.