I'm hoping the knees over toes workouts and wearing barefoot shoes will help reduce my knee pain. It might be jiu jotsu related, and age may play a small factor (im 62)
I love this video. Thanks from a 70 year old who got rid of knee and hip pain just by doing backward walking everyday. Now I am ready for more and this video is perfect.
Wonderful! Glad you liked it and thanks for sharing your story. It's amazing how simple the fix can be for a condition the modern medical system prefers surgery.
@@georgenaratadam3803 is this where your body get adapted to the load to the point that for you to make any muscle growth you have to increase said load by a lot?
I've been a personal trainer for 30 years... that towel under the door trick for nordic curls just blew my mind. Thanks! edit: Make sure you are on the side of the door where you CAN'T see the hinges, so that it's the frame supporting the door, and not just the doorknob.
Ben's basics have got helped me get rid of knee pain ive had for 31 years. No physio could help i was just being active in pain and if i followed the physios advice i would be still resting and waiting to this day, and no doubt a lot worse of than going with my gut. No found Bens basics on UA-cam and my god, at 44yo i haven't felt this good since 13. Kudos to the man🙌💯
Aside from the terrific evaluation you did, its refreshing to see your affable professionalism, your humility, conveying clearly your thoughts and what i feel of your vibe of self improvement which is motivating as well. Thank you for this vid and i wish you well. New subs here.
Thank you for reviewing the exercises. This is exactly what I wanted to see -- someone with credentials and experience commenting on them. It can be difficult sometimes to separate facts from Internet/social media hype.
Animal saturated fats are good healthy and required by human body that's fact. Unsaturated oil such as canola, soy, corn promoted by medical industry and investors as good fat is media hype.
@@MovementProjectPT If you can pls review as to how this will not be detrimental to knees, though I know this is effective. How many times in a week to be done etc. Great content and workout from you both.
@@theonlyjoedtamayo Thank you! 2x/week would be good to start. His program goes into some pretty high rep ranges but they don't let you progress without you sending in a video of your form.
I rigged my own nordic setup too, and I would highly recommend putting more padding under your knees to elevate them and to get your shin bone more parallel to the ground because it makes an enormous difference
I’m KOT guys videos you’ll notice that he always has the pressure on the skin, so the way he has been do the Nordic puts minimal pressure on the knee cap
I think the problem is the towel needs to be tighter to the door, so as to not let the ankles move up when starting the movement. Take out that slack and you’re parallel to the ground.
Whoever started the idea/movement about not bending the knees past the toes did the fitness world a great disservice. Thank God for KOTG for going against the grain and making their own movement!
Hell yea been training like that for the past 12years and now at the gym im the guy ppl look at "wtf is he doin he gonna hurt himself" but why give a fuck my knees feel incredible!
The funny thing is, as pointed out by @Movement Project PT when using the slantboard you are repositioning yourself so that your knees DONT move over the toes while increasing load. I was able to do a similar thing by doing supported squats--door handle squats--and keeping my knees over my ankle and then incrementally increasing the difficulty by using my hands less. The slantboard is a similar adaptation--when viewed biomechanically you ARENT putting your knees in front of your toes while using the slantboard....
It was said not to put knees over toes when carrying heavy weight because it push your knee out of joint, these guys are only using body weight so it’s ok, these are just leg and knee exercises that most trainers use, he’s just cashing in on suckers ffs
Love KOTG. I just started doing his exercises. Im 44 and I can feel the difference already. I thought I was doomed to a life with bad knees. Im hopeful like never before! Im on the way to the gym now!
Excellent video. I really respect the way doc here gives credit to Ben. Just the way it should be to have a healthy community. Excellent, patient explanation.
I was 300 now I'm 260lbs obese and been working in routine to include cardio and weight lifting mixed with full body exercises Trying these in the video has got me excited for new muscle growth in areas I had not thought of before. It's going to be fun
I know this comment is 3 years later, but I really want to thank you for your thorough explanation. So many times the influencers provide good information but sometimes do not go into the why they are doing things a certain way. You provided the why! ie explanation of using the slant board for the squat and it's effect on the patellar tenon. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Your content is awesome, concise, factual and straight to the point. And I am so hype about how you did not Nordic curl using the sheet, can't wait to try it out!!!!!!
Douglas Adams was not kidding when he counted the bathroom towel to humankind’s most essential items. Very practical advise for home workouts, and legit explanations! Great video, thank you!
Great reference. Its amazing how much we do with towels in our physical therapy clinics. You can also replicate most fitness tools with a (less expensive) trip to your local hardware store.
Frankly, I'm glad you didn't get on here and breeze through these exercises. Made it more relatable for those of us who have difficulty with these exercises. But you provided great guidance on how to get these exercises done 👍🏾
I have been struggling with the old bone on bone diagnosis for over 10 years. But I just can’t wrap my head around the knee replacement prescription. I’ve been following Ben and The Old Elpaso rehab guy. bought his book and am getting some relief. But being old, deaf and slow, I find him really hard to follow because he goes so fast! For all the young body builders that know the lingo thats fine. But not for us old crows😬Definitely will follow you as you make it easier understand and follow!
Thank you for the kind words. I have 20 years of working with "old crows" and young athletes vs exclusively "young bucks". I'm glad you found it helpful!
Amazing what being observant can do. This guy basically looked are the moments involved in jumping and decided to work on them. Amazingly, he unlocked a cure to most people's knee pain. Proves the saying, "Use it or lose it"
Reverse Nordics! I put my yoga mat in front of a door, attach a resistance band around the door knob on the other side. Now close the door. Hold the band with 2 hands and it allows you to control a much fuller range of motion , progressing not only your strength but flexibility at the same time. If it gets too easy just choke down on the band or change your kneeling position, then go down to thinner bands. I have seen incredible progress in only 2 months of this. I am getting close to the floor with my back and it just keeps feeling better and better. Always listen to your body and air on the side of caution. (ps warmup is very important with these!)
I've tinkered with reverse nordics in the past but never hit them as consistently or as intentionally as I have in the past 2 weeks. I have been impressed with the results. Much more freedom in my squat due to the decreased restriction from the mobility of this exercise. I even had a surprising improvement in my squat on the same day! Glad it is helping you too. The hack you describe is similar the one one I showed for nordics in this video...👉 ua-cam.com/video/aQUMd9pClNU/v-deo.html
Thank you for sharing. I am a runner and been dx with OA. Done dry needling, BFR blood flow restriction. Each therapy has helped. Will do these exercises too. I do have a sissy squat bench and it's helped alot. I am 56 years young and will not give up on my passion for trail running.
It sounds simple but try doing the ten minutes or more a day of backwards walking. It is amazing how effective it is , especially when rehabbing from an injury.
Thanks for your review and analysis. I have been working as a PT assistant for 32 years, and always love discovering new training concepts. Also love the way that you take the time to respond to the many questions. You have gained yet another subscriber. BTW, we have incorporated the use of voodoo floss (works great on knees), and some applications of ART for shoulder pain and limited ROM, with great results. Keep up the great work.
Thanks Benny! I appreciate your comment and subscription. It's nice to hear of a clinician focused on perfecting their craft even after 32 years. Keep it up!
Another option for hip flexors - place a foot through the handle of a kettlebell. That will isometrically strengthen the tibialis anterior as well. PTA here with the same mission. Keep up the good work!
I think I overloaded my knees by wheelbarrowing too heavy loads. I am 47 and trained a long period of my life. Am slim but pretty strong still so I had wheelbarrows filled up with rocks to the max and that was a year ago.That, on one day made my knee hurt. (my wife warned me and did the "I told you so" already :P ) The pain went away but now it is coming back after me doing some bad moves where I was working in a wrong position too long. I am now unable to sit behind my desk as that stiffens my left knee up again. Under the kneecap. Not swollen at all and not red. Just hurts. Lying down always helps and so does massage a little but when walking it comes back again too. Driving a car also makes it worse and I try to have my leg stretched out as much as possible in the car. I tried these exercises and man they ROCK! Thank you for laying them out like this! I did a lot of exercises in my life and never heard of these and I love them. After the exercises my knees were not painful even. I saw the coment on walking backwards and I will try and start that too every day. Thank you for this video.
Thank you for making this! With any huge interest event it’s hard to get a respectable entity to separate the fact from fiction, and you do a great job of doing that.
I appreciate that! The fitness space is littered with nonsense. Ben is quite legitimate. Thanks for commenting and glad you enjoyed. Check out my channel for other reviews and topics related to pain, fitness, and performance
excellent video! Thanks.... Love this "new" concept of "knees over toes" ...try walking up the stairs without doing this, you can't! It's as natural as breathing. Don't limit yourself, move yourself! Movement is the key to life!
Exactly! Couldn't agree more. It is brilliant marketing and delivery by Ben. Knees over toes is a problem when that is the only way your body knows how to move (usually due to posterior hip weakness). When that happens, you beat the heck out of your patellofemoral joints, patellar tendons, etc. Appreciate the comment!
I’ve never used a Monkey Foot, but a few years ago when I was working on my pistol squat I unvented the same exercise by putting my foot through a kettlebell loop. Get some tib strengthening that way as well. It definitely helped.
@@incorectulpolitic A stick. 18-24 inches long an inch or so thick. Thick enough to hold the weight you're using without bending(25% KOTG recommends I believe). Make it perpendicular to the handle Then while sitting on a bench or a sofa, you should be able to raise your toes up and down. Do it slowly until you're used to the movement. You may need to wear shoes and have a towel for comfort.
Thank you for putting all the main exercises into one it's hard to find what to do without his program I've been doing some of these training methods to have more mobility,strength,and Explosiveness on my legs and to prevent Injuries as an athlete
Nordic Hamstring Curl: The knee goes from a 90 degree bend to 45 degrees before most people "flop" and can't sustain the eccentric contraction. If you were to use a leg curl machine that is flat, (no hip flexion) and isometrically contract the gluteus maximus, the motion is from the top of the hamstring curl to half way down. To the hamstring, does it really matter? The Nordic Hamstring Curl looks really cool, however in your PT practice, are there many that can do a full range of motion? Unless you're dealing with super strong athletes, probably not. For the average person, what's your take on the amount of compression on the kneecap (even though there's a pad) when you're kneeling on the kneecap and eccentrically lowering yourself down? Seems it would be easier for the average person to use a leg curl machine and have an assistant help the weight up so that your knee is bend 90 degrees and then eccentrically lower the weight. You could control the weight (some peoples' body weight is huge). You're not going to get the hits on Instagram or UA-cam like you would with a gym ball eccentric or leg curl, but almost every patient that has tried to do a Nordic in my clinic doesn't like the body weight compression on the patella. What are your thoughts?
Thank you for the detailed comment and great question! You hit the nail on the head when it comes to working to muscle through its full functional and even anatomical range of motion without irritating the patient. That being said, the largest compressive forces at the PF joint result in conjunction with a quadriceps contraction. Especially contraction that is unchecked in all directions from VL and VM. Since this is a hamstring exercise, the resulting compressive vectors from the quadriceps are slim to none and or the product only of the individual's body weight. Compare that with jogging which is 3-7X Body weight at the PF joint (depending on which study you reference). Furthermore, if you employ a plantarflexed instead of a dorsiflexed ankle, you shift the load to the tibial tuberosity and away from the patella completely. The exercise you describe is great to work the muscle in isolation but it is open chain, primary action. Unless you are sprinting or jumping, the hamstring is rarely used in an open chain with force. My final comment is that working the hamstring in the reverse action is the most beneficial for function. The Nordic will work a neutral to shortened range with knee flexed to 90 and Straight leg dead lift will work the lengthened range with knee at near full extension. For maximum gains, ideally all muscles should be trained: -Concentrically and Eccentrically -Primary and Reverse Action -Lengthened and Shortened range -Open and Closed chain Thanks again and let me know your thoughts!
@@MovementProjectPT I was doing the program for awhile and I kind made due with the equipment I have . So I don't think a lot of stuff was ideal , especially the narrow bench I was doing my Nordics on . I think it may of been the reason my knee cap has been hurting a lot for about two or three weeks . I stopped doing the program this week to see if it gets better , I hope it does because I hate not training .
That's a completely legit claim. I've worked with very wide range of people over the years (from the elderly to military / combat fitness) and i have seen different people react differently to the Nordic, in terms of patellar pressure. It seems nothing to do with the body weight, as i've witnessed slim ninja-warrior-obstacle-course dudes - also had complained about that. Padding, knee positioning and ankle manipulation helps, (and should be tried) but not always eliminate the problem. Even when the difficulty of the exercise is reduced. On the other hand, i also dealt with 60+ fit guys who did this exercise all the way to failure, without any negative side-effects. What i would conclude, is - while the exercise is undeniably great, it may not be suitable for everyone out there. Experimentation and attention to your trainees (or patients) should determine when, how hard and if at all. In the end, strengthening the hamstring is much higher priority than going after a specific exercise. If it goes well - great, take it, if not - there are other means to work the muscle. That's my take on it.
That's the nicest way anyone's ever told me I'm horrible at doing these exercises 🤣 Joking aside, thanks for the kind words. I've never claimed to be a "fitness influencer" but people still love to attack. I've love my work and enjoy sharing the message!
Haha! Not at all. What I meant is that you reviewed the program set up by a non-PT fairly and honestly. You aren’t threatened by someone else putting out Physio-type info if they are doing so responsibly. Thats great!
I need to hear this from a physical therapist! Thank you so much for going through all of these. I have had a hip replacement and have severe imbalance between my legs, tight hips, tight knees, and super tight ankles. I can't thank you enough to go over this and share your experience with Ben's routines! Thank you!!!
You're so welcome! Glad you found it helpful. Be sure to regress the exercises appropriately with the hip replacement. Especially the knees over toes split squat.
He is spreading the message to the masses - Movement is the best (and most cost effective) Medicine! Hoping I can grow enough to show that this doesn't stop at the knees. Shoulders, elbows, neck, back, headaches, foot and heel pain....majority of all musculoskeletal conditions are movement related!
Another DIY curl solution is a belt (dip belt, Nordic strap, etc), some cushion, and a bench! I have a drywall bench and that’s what I use! Alternatively, I jerririgged a “monkey foot” with some a quick release buckle and a kettlebell! All these exercises are crucial imo! I’ve been dealing with lots of knee pain for a few years and it’s incredible how much I’ve improved over the past year incorporating all of these exercises into my daily routine.
This is a really good review thanks. I've found his exercises really beneficial as well so it's reassuring to have an actual professional do a review. I can see that you respect his work which is great, you had to work hard to find a criticism! Better finish my sets now then.
Great review, especially your technical breakdown of which muscles each exercise works. Among all of them, which would you consider ideal for correcting an imbalance of weak VMOs to correct patellar tracking issues?
As I mentioned in video (11:10-12:25), you cannot selectively recruit the VMO. Research and clinical experience shows us that patellar tracking issues are due to the femur's position (patellar groove) and not the patella itself. If you are having tracking issues, focusing on control of hip rotation to impact the femur is most critical.
To answer your questions, slantboard squat and KOT split squat would be best of these exercises but with a careful focus on alignment of your femur when doing so. Be sure the knee is not angling inward. Good rule of thumb is to keep knee caps inline with the 5th toes or wider.
@@MovementProjectPT Thanks for the detailed reply! The note on femur angle is interesting. I naturally have a bit wider stance (and feet angled a bit out) from what seems to be anatomical reasons. Would prefer the slantboard squat (bilateral > uni for time-efficient strength training), though your note at 7:34 mentioned avoiding going beyond 60 degrees flexion? Doing a squat with thighs parallel to ground would take the knee flexion to ~130 degrees on the board/heels on plates.
@@firagabird You are correct about the angle. The research talks about passing 60 degrees on a slantboard regarding patella femoral pressure. If you are doing a traditional squat, passing 60 is far less of a problem. Ben's info is great for patellar tendinitis but if you have tracking issues and patellofemoral joint pain you really must master the classic hip dominant (knees behind toes) squat first. Then, you can progress to this program.
@@MovementProjectPT by classic/knees behind toes squat, are you referring to the low bar back squat? As a high bar lifter that's also working on ankle mobility, I've considered trying low bar. If so, what's a good indication that my quads/knees are strong enough to handle the load of high bar squats, as well as this program?
Great video! I really like how you explain the rationale behind the slant board squats and sissy squats. In his program (which I bought for a month out of sheer curiosity), he has KOT step ups and "Patrick" steps, which seem like a unilateral sissy squat. I was really wondering whether this was good for the knee in terms of loading the patellar tendon. After watching your video a couple times, it sounds like it is good because it puts a load on it and causes strengthening? Is the load on the patellar tendon good for tendonitis because it puts stress on it and increases blood flow? But can doing this movement be the cause tendonitis? My knees are fine, I just want to keep them that way and do anything that would be good to prevent knee issues in the future. (You know, stay ahead of the curve). Thanks in advance
Appreciate the thoughtful comment!If you do not have knee pain, I would worry less about loading the patellar tendon and instead focus on building every joint's ability to withstand load in many positions. Ben's program is great but it does miss a few pieces namely lateral and transverse plane movements to help in injury prevention. Yes the decline squat puts more load (think of it as a stimulus for growth/adaptation) on the tendon with less joint forces compared to the traditional squat. Also, eccentric and isometric activities (especially long duration isometric) provide stimulus for adaptation without a corresponding joint shear force. They tend to be more tolerated in general. There are also things happening at the cellular level during these types of exercises that can contribute to the healing process (collagen adaptation, etc) Sorry if that was too in depth. Hope it helped! Keep up the good work
@@MovementProjectPT Thanks for the reply! I like what you said about building every joint's ability to withstand load in many positions. It sounds like lateral and drop step lunges (maybe with an isometric hold at the bottom) could be pretty good. I really like your channel and made sure to subscribe. Thanks again!
@@davidwestwood2457 I really appreciate your comments! A big piece that so many miss is speed of movements. Strength is amazing but so is reactivity and quickness. Adding 1-2 sessions per week for agility and quickness especially with lateral moves can be a game changer. Happy training!
I imagine if you put an exercise band over the top of your door with the sheet under the bottom, it could help you ease into the exercise by taking off some of your upper body weight so you can maintain proper form through the range of motion.
I love your Bruhv!!!! Not to many chaps show their Minnie limitations during exercises... Brilliant my guy just brilliant!! Subscribing right.... now 👍
I thought the same! I'm a former Group Ex instructor - overuse issues with one bum knee and I thought I'd have to live with this pain for the rest of my life. I happened upon the KOT guy and after two (only two) days of doing his exercises, my knee pain is 90% gone and feels stronger. I cannot do the exercises like Ben can but it's a start and has given me confidence for the future!
@@patriciabowler slow but steady progress is the key. I'm not worried doing what he does at this point. His knee has been building strength and flexibility for years...
I did a few of these exercises and my quads hurt in places I didn't know existed lol the nest day I felt sore in a deep part of my quad. Something I've never felt before. I look forward to reading Ben's book
You are inspiring. I was an athlete. I’m now 60 and to pick something off the floor as you demonstrated when you first knew you had a problem….that is me now
Appreciate that! Keep after it. Age is just a number. Ive had horrible pains throughout my body but rehabbed through them all. Time, effort, and belief are powerful
![How to Fix Knee Pain [Is It Patellar Tendonitis?]](/img/n.gif)
Want to see my review of Knees Over Toes Upper body program? ua-cam.com/video/yHoMS4t0-ZY/v-deo.html
Knees over toes guy is no joke, I had knee pain and tried his recommended exercises and my knee pain in 80% gone
Great news!
How long did it take? Also how often did you work out and what exercises did you do?
I mostly did the atg split squats and the deep squats. Reps depend on the amount of weight you use and I did that five days a week sometimes four.
I'm hoping the knees over toes workouts and wearing barefoot shoes will help reduce my knee pain. It might be jiu jotsu related, and age may play a small factor (im 62)
@@onerider808 Go get em! Let me know if I can help with any questions.
thanks you for the nordic curl knots in a sheet method
Glad you liked it!
I was about to buy equipment for this, who knew a dog leash would work for the Nordic curl.
@@SlowerOne Nice!
For real. Bought a belt to wrap around a bench but i never thought of that. A great basic
@@terrenceduarte5348 and the strap/bench forces meto keep my knees closer together than is really comfortable. This will be better!
The amount of respect all these legit guys have for Ben is insane
I love this video. Thanks from a 70 year old who got rid of knee and hip pain just by doing backward walking everyday. Now I am ready for more and this video is perfect.
Wonderful! Glad you liked it and thanks for sharing your story. It's amazing how simple the fix can be for a condition the modern medical system prefers surgery.
The knees over toes guy is a BIG believer in being incremental. That is smart.
Well said
@The Deathless It means doing things in very small steps, starting at the beginning and not skipping ahead.
@@rodgerbane3825my biggest takeaway from last year was when Pavel Tsatsouline said something to the effect of “you DO NOT want to force adaptation”
Agreed. Goal is to stay within the elastic portion of the Stress-Strain curve to prevent injury while making gains.
@@georgenaratadam3803 is this where your body get adapted to the load to the point that for you to make any muscle growth you have to increase said load by a lot?
I've been a personal trainer for 30 years... that towel under the door trick for nordic curls just blew my mind. Thanks!
edit: Make sure you are on the side of the door where you CAN'T see the hinges, so that it's the frame supporting the door, and not just the doorknob.
Thanks for the awesome comment! I did add that piece of info into my Nordic hack video. Definitely don't want someone pulling their door off!
Thanks for the info, that trick is so useful for nordics
great hack that can also be applied to using bands or a bedsheet at the top for the door to use for pulling exercises
🤯
Yeah that was pretty awesome 😎
00:55 - Nordic Hamstring Curls
03:22 - Sissy Squat
06:16 - Decline Squats / Reverse Slantboard Step Ups
10:02 - Knee Over Toe Split Squat
13:09 - Resisted Hip Flexion (Using Monkey Foot!)
16:06 - Resisted Ankle Dorsiflexion AKA Tibialis Raise
Thanks!
You missed reverse nordics at 4:25
@@James-ko9sn Thanks James!
Thx
Thanks for the list writing it down 💪💪💪👍👍❤️❤️
Ben's basics have got helped me get rid of knee pain ive had for 31 years.
No physio could help i was just being active in pain and if i followed the physios advice i would be still resting and waiting to this day, and no doubt a lot worse of than going with my gut.
No found Bens basics on UA-cam and my god, at 44yo i haven't felt this good since 13.
Kudos to the man🙌💯
Glad to hear it! So many amazing success stories
The hip flexor explanation of nerves firing was....all I needed to hear...! Loved it!
Glad you liked it!
Thanks for the DIY to do the Nordic curl at home! 😎
You bet - Hope it helps!
Seriously, what a great idea.
@@trevormadden8096 I have another addition I will be showing soon! Be sure to subscribe :)
Definitely clutch for that tyty
Yeah, thats a great idea
Aside from the terrific evaluation you did, its refreshing to see your affable professionalism, your humility, conveying clearly your thoughts and what i feel of your vibe of self improvement which is motivating as well. Thank you for this vid and i wish you well. New subs here.
Wow. You definitely made my day! I appreciate the kind words and your subscription. Please share with anyone you think would benefit 👍
Thank you for reviewing the exercises. This is exactly what I wanted to see -- someone with credentials and experience commenting on them. It can be difficult sometimes to separate facts from Internet/social media hype.
Glad you found it helpful!
Agree, great video!
Animal saturated fats are good healthy and required by human body that's fact. Unsaturated oil such as canola, soy, corn promoted by medical industry and investors as good fat is media hype.
Thank you for sharing. It was great to have somebody walk through and show each of the exercises Knees Over Toes Guy has been talking about.
Glad it was helpful! Let me know anything else you'd like to see me review.
@@MovementProjectPT If you can pls review as to how this will not be detrimental to knees, though I know this is effective. How many times in a week to be done etc. Great content and workout from you both.
@@theonlyjoedtamayo Thank you! 2x/week would be good to start. His program goes into some pretty high rep ranges but they don't let you progress without you sending in a video of your form.
@@MovementProjectPT Thank you for this! Great channel.💯👌🏼
@@theonlyjoedtamayo Appreciate you!
I love the knee over toes guy; however, I love love love how relatable your video is for me to follow.
Wow thanks for the compliment Ama!
I rigged my own nordic setup too, and I would highly recommend putting more padding under your knees to elevate them and to get your shin bone more parallel to the ground because it makes an enormous difference
Great call. You’re right, having the ankles plantar flexed is not ideal. I am going to try it elevated soon!
I’m KOT guys videos you’ll notice that he always has the pressure on the skin, so the way he has been do the Nordic puts minimal pressure on the knee cap
@@MovementProjectPT my knees goes back.....I have knee hypertension.....what should I do
I think the problem is the towel needs to be tighter to the door, so as to not let the ankles move up when starting the movement.
Take out that slack and you’re parallel to the ground.
@@AngelinaB20 makes sense
Whoever started the idea/movement about not bending the knees past the toes did the fitness world a great disservice. Thank God for KOTG for going against the grain and making their own movement!
Well said!
Cant forget we live in barbarian ran countries. These people are not known for flexibility
Hell yea been training like that for the past 12years and now at the gym im the guy ppl look at "wtf is he doin he gonna hurt himself" but why give a fuck my knees feel incredible!
The funny thing is, as pointed out by @Movement Project PT when using the slantboard you are repositioning yourself so that your knees DONT move over the toes while increasing load. I was able to do a similar thing by doing supported squats--door handle squats--and keeping my knees over my ankle and then incrementally increasing the difficulty by using my hands less. The slantboard is a similar adaptation--when viewed biomechanically you ARENT putting your knees in front of your toes while using the slantboard....
It was said not to put knees over toes when carrying heavy weight because it push your knee out of joint, these guys are only using body weight so it’s ok, these are just leg and knee exercises that most trainers use, he’s just cashing in on suckers ffs
The door trick is simply genius! Thank you sir!
Glad you liked it!
Love KOTG. I just started doing his exercises. Im 44 and I can feel the difference already. I thought I was doomed to a life with bad knees. Im hopeful like never before! Im on the way to the gym now!
Excellent video. I really respect the way doc here gives credit to Ben. Just the way it should be to have a healthy community. Excellent, patient explanation.
I appreciate your comment. Gotta give credit where credit is due. Ben is spreading a needed message!
your nordic curl setup is genius, will definitley be using that sheet method from now on
Try doing one leg at a time with push-up assist too!
@@MovementProjectPT Thanks for the tip, i struggled doing two feet today so will give that a go next session
Good Luck. It's like doing a superset at the same time. Just keep switching legs while you continue push ups.
@@MovementProjectPT thats super legit exercise
Right?! I've been a personal trainer for 30 years, and have struggled with a good solo Nordic Ham Curl method... This is brilliant!!
Thank you for distilling these exercises is such a succinct and easy to understand format! 🙏🏽
Appreciate the kind words! Glad you liked it
I was 300 now I'm 260lbs obese and been working in routine to include cardio and weight lifting mixed with full body exercises
Trying these in the video has got me excited for new muscle growth in areas I had not thought of before.
It's going to be fun
Keep it up Nice Work!!
If you can go to a gym that has the sled that Ben uses. Good luck with your new lifestyle!
knees over toes guy is my hero. Been doing most of his exercises with great success
I know this comment is 3 years later, but I really want to thank you for your thorough explanation. So many times the influencers provide good information but sometimes do not go into the why they are doing things a certain way. You provided the why! ie explanation of using the slant board for the squat and it's effect on the patellar tenon. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Your content is awesome, concise, factual and straight to the point. And I am so hype about how you did not Nordic curl using the sheet, can't wait to try it out!!!!!!
Wow thank you for that! Be sure to subscribe, new video this weekend
that sheet with knots was genius ive been scouring google since last year for ways how to do nordic hamstring curls at home!!!!
Glad you like it!
Douglas Adams was not kidding when he counted the bathroom towel to humankind’s most essential items. Very practical advise for home workouts, and legit explanations! Great video, thank you!
Great reference. Its amazing how much we do with towels in our physical therapy clinics. You can also replicate most fitness tools with a (less expensive) trip to your local hardware store.
I love that you are showing me how I can do these at home without equipment!!!
I am a Physiatrist in Raleigh-Durham. This video is excellent and absolutely essential. Thank you so much! So very helpful.
Glad you found it to be valuable. Thanks for commenting!
Frankly, I'm glad you didn't get on here and breeze through these exercises. Made it more relatable for those of us who have difficulty with these exercises. But you provided great guidance on how to get these exercises done 👍🏾
Wow I appreciate it! Glad it helped 🙂
I loved how you shared everything without the equipment, and the knowledge. ❤
Glad you liked it!!
That snap change... bravo
Thanks, I had fun doing it!
Your nordic curl improv set up is gold, thanks!
Thanks I’ve been doing Bens protocol and I still find your video helpful.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for the comment
I have been struggling with the old bone on bone diagnosis for over 10 years. But I just can’t wrap my head around the knee replacement prescription.
I’ve been following Ben and The Old Elpaso rehab guy. bought his book and am getting some relief. But being old, deaf and slow, I find him really hard to follow because he goes so fast! For all the young body builders that know the lingo thats fine. But not for us old crows😬Definitely will follow you as you make it easier understand and follow!
Thank you for the kind words. I have 20 years of working with "old crows" and young athletes vs exclusively "young bucks". I'm glad you found it helpful!
Yeah agreed, I don’t love BP teaching style, but these vids are great. How are you feeling now?
Video was very helpful. Thank you for taking the time to create it and being so clear.
Glad it was helpful. Thanks for commenting!
The sheet with the knots is such a great idea... Thanks for this
Glad you liked it!
Amazing what being observant can do. This guy basically looked are the moments involved in jumping and decided to work on them. Amazingly, he unlocked a cure to most people's knee pain. Proves the saying, "Use it or lose it"
These things have already been around for a long time, but the gaining awareness is good.
Omg the knotted sheet under the door is genius!!
Reverse Nordics! I put my yoga mat in front of a door, attach a resistance band around the door knob on the other side. Now close the door. Hold the band with 2 hands and it allows you to control a much fuller range of motion , progressing not only your strength but flexibility at the same time. If it gets too easy just choke down on the band or change your kneeling position, then go down to thinner bands. I have seen incredible progress in only 2 months of this. I am getting close to the floor with my back and it just keeps feeling better and better. Always listen to your body and air on the side of caution. (ps warmup is very important with these!)
I've tinkered with reverse nordics in the past but never hit them as consistently or as intentionally as I have in the past 2 weeks. I have been impressed with the results. Much more freedom in my squat due to the decreased restriction from the mobility of this exercise. I even had a surprising improvement in my squat on the same day! Glad it is helping you too. The hack you describe is similar the one one I showed for nordics in this video...👉 ua-cam.com/video/aQUMd9pClNU/v-deo.html
Best knee strengthening video on UA-cam.
Well that’s flattering. I don’t know if I’d go that far but I appreciate it more than you know!
Thank you for sharing. I am a runner and been dx with OA. Done dry needling, BFR blood flow restriction. Each therapy has helped. Will do these exercises too. I do have a sissy squat bench and it's helped alot. I am 56 years young and will not give up on my passion for trail running.
Keep grinding! It's worth it. Next step would be to have a running gait analysis by a running specialist PT if you have not done so already.
It sounds simple but try doing the ten minutes or more a day of backwards walking. It is amazing how effective it is , especially when rehabbing from an injury.
I’ve never seen this at-home Nordic hamstring hack before … it’s so simple yet I’d never thought of it, thank you
Glad you liked it!
Thanks for your review and analysis. I have been working as a PT assistant for 32 years, and always love discovering new training concepts. Also love the way that you take the time to respond to the many questions. You have gained yet another subscriber. BTW, we have incorporated the use of voodoo floss (works great on knees), and some applications of ART for shoulder pain and limited ROM, with great results. Keep up the great work.
Thanks Benny! I appreciate your comment and subscription. It's nice to hear of a clinician focused on perfecting their craft even after 32 years. Keep it up!
Thanks for the analysis. It's always great to have specialist advice. 👨⚕️👍
Another option for hip flexors - place a foot through the handle of a kettlebell. That will isometrically strengthen the tibialis anterior as well. PTA here with the same mission. Keep up the good work!
True. It just depends on how heavy you want to load the Hip flexors because TA will fatigue before Psoas in that instance.
Thanks for the comment!
Thanks for the tip!
Good stuff ty
Appreciate that very much!
Great stuff man, thank you! And thanks for giving him credit and being humble and giving him his due credit, unfortunately it's rare now a days...
He deserves it! He is spreading the message I am so desperate to share. Current model to treat pain is awful! Thanks for the comment
Towel under the door tip was a game changer!! Thanks for sharing
Glad it was helpful! Check out my video for a Nordic hack -
ua-cam.com/video/aQUMd9pClNU/v-deo.html
I had knee pain for the past 6+ weeks. I recently started doing these workouts a couple times a week and my knee pain is almost gone 😊
I think I overloaded my knees by wheelbarrowing too heavy loads. I am 47 and trained a long period of my life. Am slim but pretty strong still so I had wheelbarrows filled up with rocks to the max and that was a year ago.That, on one day made my knee hurt. (my wife warned me and did the "I told you so" already :P )
The pain went away but now it is coming back after me doing some bad moves where I was working in a wrong position too long. I am now unable to sit behind my desk as that stiffens my left knee up again. Under the kneecap. Not swollen at all and not red. Just hurts. Lying down always helps and so does massage a little but when walking it comes back again too. Driving a car also makes it worse and I try to have my leg stretched out as much as possible in the car.
I tried these exercises and man they ROCK! Thank you for laying them out like this! I did a lot of exercises in my life and never heard of these and I love them. After the exercises my knees were not painful even. I saw the coment on walking backwards and I will try and start that too every day.
Thank you for this video.
Thank you Movement Project. Adds more credibility to the exercises when when PT expert explains and clarifies.
You can run hip flexion using a kettlebell. Just push your foot through handle. Same for the ankle extension/tibialis exercise.
Thank you for making this! With any huge interest event it’s hard to get a respectable entity to separate the fact from fiction, and you do a great job of doing that.
I appreciate that! The fitness space is littered with nonsense. Ben is quite legitimate. Thanks for commenting and glad you enjoyed. Check out my channel for other reviews and topics related to pain, fitness, and performance
GREAT video! Yes, I'm 52 and I'm so fairly active. I'm very inspired by the KOT guy (Ben Patrick) and his training philosophy and his passion.
Thanks for commenting and sharing! I'm 42 and trying to stay relevant as well haha
Thanks for the reassurance in his program
I’m definitely going in vest in monkey foot
You'll love it. His next step is to add some additional exercises for frontal (sideways movements) and transverse (rotary movements) plane.
Reassurance?
So Ben's story as well as his 1000+ cases is not enough to reassure you?
@@mohamedorayith4626 every scammer guru has "1000 testimonies". Don't fault someone for being skeptical
Fantastic review of a man that has personally changed and added to my practice as a yoga therapist
Thank you! Glad you are helping others as well
Great breakdown from a PT perspective!
Glad you liked it!
The towel behind the door was just out of this world man
Thanks, glad you liked it!
Great video. Reviewing while performing, solid idea. And you share solid progression ideas. Thanks
Glad you liked it!
Good for you getting on here and showing people how to do it
Thank you. More to follow tomorrow as I review KOT upper body exercises.
excellent video! Thanks.... Love this "new" concept of "knees over toes" ...try walking up the stairs without doing this, you can't! It's as natural as breathing. Don't limit yourself, move yourself! Movement is the key to life!
Exactly! Couldn't agree more. It is brilliant marketing and delivery by Ben. Knees over toes is a problem when that is the only way your body knows how to move (usually due to posterior hip weakness). When that happens, you beat the heck out of your patellofemoral joints, patellar tendons, etc. Appreciate the comment!
that towel under the door trick , GENIUS
I’ve never used a Monkey Foot, but a few years ago when I was working on my pistol squat I unvented the same exercise by putting my foot through a kettlebell loop. Get some tib strengthening that way as well. It definitely helped.
Thanks for sharing!
I had ACL surgery. I’ve had a lot of complications ever since. I found Ben with the ATG I can say I’m 80% close to recovery
Kettle bells work pretty good for tib raises.
how
@@incorectulpolitic slide your foot throw the opening. I have 1 type of kettle where both of my feet barely fit
If you wrap the floss band around the kettle grip, it will be less likely to slide down the foot. Good Luck!
Thats what i been using as well
@@incorectulpolitic A stick. 18-24 inches long an inch or so thick. Thick enough to hold the weight you're using without bending(25% KOTG recommends I believe). Make it perpendicular to the handle Then while sitting on a bench or a sofa, you should be able to raise your toes up and down. Do it slowly until you're used to the movement. You may need to wear shoes and have a towel for comfort.
Great review of Ben's program excercises. Since you got the monkeyfoot, just flip it around for the tibialis raises. Works great!
Thanks and Great tip!
Thank you for putting all the main exercises into one it's hard to find what to do without his program I've been doing some of these training methods to have more mobility,strength,and Explosiveness on my legs and to prevent Injuries as an athlete
Thanks for the comment. I hope they are helping you!
1 goal in the past 6 games, I'm gonna need you to step your shit up buddy if we're gonna win the scudetto.
Thank you for summarizing some of the exercises!
Glad you like them!
Nordic Hamstring Curl: The knee goes from a 90 degree bend to 45 degrees before most people "flop" and can't sustain the eccentric contraction. If you were to use a leg curl machine that is flat, (no hip flexion) and isometrically contract the gluteus maximus, the motion is from the top of the hamstring curl to half way down. To the hamstring, does it really matter? The Nordic Hamstring Curl looks really cool, however in your PT practice, are there many that can do a full range of motion? Unless you're dealing with super strong athletes, probably not. For the average person, what's your take on the amount of compression on the kneecap (even though there's a pad) when you're kneeling on the kneecap and eccentrically lowering yourself down? Seems it would be easier for the average person to use a leg curl machine and have an assistant help the weight up so that your knee is bend 90 degrees and then eccentrically lower the weight. You could control the weight (some peoples' body weight is huge). You're not going to get the hits on Instagram or UA-cam like you would with a gym ball eccentric or leg curl, but almost every patient that has tried to do a Nordic in my clinic doesn't like the body weight compression on the patella. What are your thoughts?
Thank you for the detailed comment and great question! You hit the nail on the head when it comes to working to muscle through its full functional and even anatomical range of motion without irritating the patient. That being said, the largest compressive forces at the PF joint result in conjunction with a quadriceps contraction. Especially contraction that is unchecked in all directions from VL and VM. Since this is a hamstring exercise, the resulting compressive vectors from the quadriceps are slim to none and or the product only of the individual's body weight. Compare that with jogging which is 3-7X Body weight at the PF joint (depending on which study you reference). Furthermore, if you employ a plantarflexed instead of a dorsiflexed ankle, you shift the load to the tibial tuberosity and away from the patella completely. The exercise you describe is great to work the muscle in isolation but it is open chain, primary action. Unless you are sprinting or jumping, the hamstring is rarely used in an open chain with force. My final comment is that working the hamstring in the reverse action is the most beneficial for function. The Nordic will work a neutral to shortened range with knee flexed to 90 and Straight leg dead lift will work the lengthened range with knee at near full extension.
For maximum gains, ideally all muscles should be trained:
-Concentrically and Eccentrically
-Primary and Reverse Action
-Lengthened and Shortened range
-Open and Closed chain
Thanks again and let me know your thoughts!
@@MovementProjectPT I was doing the program for awhile and I kind made due with the equipment I have . So I don't think a lot of stuff was ideal , especially the narrow bench I was doing my Nordics on . I think it may of been the reason my knee cap has been hurting a lot for about two or three weeks . I stopped doing the program this week to see if it gets better , I hope it does because I hate not training .
@@MovementProjectPT the takeaway on this comment is that is safest when the ankle is kept in PF position?
@@glenbergman9040 If you are having patella pain issues than yes that is correct. Ultimately, your symptoms should be your guide.
That's a completely legit claim. I've worked with very wide range of people
over the years (from the elderly to military / combat fitness) and i have seen
different people react differently to the Nordic, in terms of patellar pressure.
It seems nothing to do with the body weight, as i've witnessed slim
ninja-warrior-obstacle-course dudes - also had complained about that.
Padding, knee positioning and ankle manipulation helps, (and should be tried)
but not always eliminate the problem. Even when the difficulty of the exercise
is reduced.
On the other hand, i also dealt with 60+ fit guys who did this exercise all the
way to failure, without any negative side-effects. What i would conclude, is -
while the exercise is undeniably great, it may not be suitable for everyone out there. Experimentation and attention to your trainees (or patients) should determine when, how hard and if at all. In the end, strengthening the hamstring
is much higher priority than going after a specific exercise. If it goes well - great, take it, if not - there are other means to work the muscle. That's my take on it.
I really respect your professional emotional security in making this video
That's the nicest way anyone's ever told me I'm horrible at doing these exercises 🤣
Joking aside, thanks for the kind words. I've never claimed to be a "fitness influencer" but people still love to attack.
I've love my work and enjoy sharing the message!
Haha! Not at all. What I meant is that you reviewed the program set up by a non-PT fairly and honestly. You aren’t threatened by someone else putting out Physio-type info if they are doing so responsibly. Thats great!
@@anton364094 oh got it thanks!!Ben is very well read. He’s done more homework than many PTs!
19:25 that transition is CLEAN
Thanks!
I can confirm. I have been doing the ATG Zero program for 2 weeks now and it helped a lot.
I need to hear this from a physical therapist! Thank you so much for going through all of these. I have had a hip replacement and have severe imbalance between my legs, tight hips, tight knees, and super tight ankles. I can't thank you enough to go over this and share your experience with Ben's routines! Thank you!!!
You're so welcome! Glad you found it helpful. Be sure to regress the exercises appropriately with the hip replacement. Especially the knees over toes split squat.
@@MovementProjectPT yes! Absolutely. It'll be a while before I'll be able to even attempt to do that one too. Thanks again
Its not editing, this guy is literally God
Ben Patrick has created a revaluation for knees
He is spreading the message to the masses - Movement is the best (and most cost effective) Medicine! Hoping I can grow enough to show that this doesn't stop at the knees. Shoulders, elbows, neck, back, headaches, foot and heel pain....majority of all musculoskeletal conditions are movement related!
@@MovementProjectPT looking forward to talks and techniques for elbows!
Been doing this for over 2 yrs, has improved my surfing at age 64.
Wow. Thanks for sharing! Each year that passes, my goals change more and more toward longevity and maintaining physical capacity.
Another DIY curl solution is a belt (dip belt, Nordic strap, etc), some cushion, and a bench! I have a drywall bench and that’s what I use!
Alternatively, I jerririgged a “monkey foot” with some a quick release buckle and a kettlebell!
All these exercises are crucial imo! I’ve been dealing with lots of knee pain for a few years and it’s incredible how much I’ve improved over the past year incorporating all of these exercises into my daily routine.
Thanks for the detailed comment! Glad you have made so much improvement by focusing on the movement and steering clear of meds and surgery!
Thank God for this stuff... I used to have daily knee pain and now with kot exercise and stretches provided have changed my life for the better
Glad to hear it!
WOW! Thank you so much for the great home workout idea's 🦵🦵👍Legend. Subscribed.
Awesome! Thank you!
This is a really good review thanks. I've found his exercises really beneficial as well so it's reassuring to have an actual professional do a review. I can see that you respect his work which is great, you had to work hard to find a criticism! Better finish my sets now then.
Glad it was helpful! He’s great but certainly not a substitute for an individual evaluation. Best of luck!
Great review, especially your technical breakdown of which muscles each exercise works. Among all of them, which would you consider ideal for correcting an imbalance of weak VMOs to correct patellar tracking issues?
As I mentioned in video (11:10-12:25), you cannot selectively recruit the VMO. Research and clinical experience shows us that patellar tracking issues are due to the femur's position (patellar groove) and not the patella itself. If you are having tracking issues, focusing on control of hip rotation to impact the femur is most critical.
To answer your questions, slantboard squat and KOT split squat would be best of these exercises but with a careful focus on alignment of your femur when doing so. Be sure the knee is not angling inward. Good rule of thumb is to keep knee caps inline with the 5th toes or wider.
@@MovementProjectPT Thanks for the detailed reply! The note on femur angle is interesting. I naturally have a bit wider stance (and feet angled a bit out) from what seems to be anatomical reasons. Would prefer the slantboard squat (bilateral > uni for time-efficient strength training), though your note at 7:34 mentioned avoiding going beyond 60 degrees flexion? Doing a squat with thighs parallel to ground would take the knee flexion to ~130 degrees on the board/heels on plates.
@@firagabird You are correct about the angle. The research talks about passing 60 degrees on a slantboard regarding patella femoral pressure. If you are doing a traditional squat, passing 60 is far less of a problem. Ben's info is great for patellar tendinitis but if you have tracking issues and patellofemoral joint pain you really must master the classic hip dominant (knees behind toes) squat first. Then, you can progress to this program.
@@MovementProjectPT by classic/knees behind toes squat, are you referring to the low bar back squat? As a high bar lifter that's also working on ankle mobility, I've considered trying low bar. If so, what's a good indication that my quads/knees are strong enough to handle the load of high bar squats, as well as this program?
Great video, thank you. Love the snap of the finger shoe change!
Thanks...Glad you liked it! I was surprised how well it turned out
Great video! I really like how you explain the rationale behind the slant board squats and sissy squats. In his program (which I bought for a month out of sheer curiosity), he has KOT step ups and "Patrick" steps, which seem like a unilateral sissy squat. I was really wondering whether this was good for the knee in terms of loading the patellar tendon. After watching your video a couple times, it sounds like it is good because it puts a load on it and causes strengthening? Is the load on the patellar tendon good for tendonitis because it puts stress on it and increases blood flow? But can doing this movement be the cause tendonitis? My knees are fine, I just want to keep them that way and do anything that would be good to prevent knee issues in the future. (You know, stay ahead of the curve). Thanks in advance
Appreciate the thoughtful comment!If you do not have knee pain, I would worry less about loading the patellar tendon and instead focus on building every joint's ability to withstand load in many positions. Ben's program is great but it does miss a few pieces namely lateral and transverse plane movements to help in injury prevention. Yes the decline squat puts more load (think of it as a stimulus for growth/adaptation) on the tendon with less joint forces compared to the traditional squat. Also, eccentric and isometric activities (especially long duration isometric) provide stimulus for adaptation without a corresponding joint shear force. They tend to be more tolerated in general. There are also things happening at the cellular level during these types of exercises that can contribute to the healing process (collagen adaptation, etc) Sorry if that was too in depth. Hope it helped! Keep up the good work
@@MovementProjectPT Thanks for the reply! I like what you said about building every joint's ability to withstand load in many positions. It sounds like lateral and drop step lunges (maybe with an isometric hold at the bottom) could be pretty good. I really like your channel and made sure to subscribe. Thanks again!
@@davidwestwood2457 I really appreciate your comments! A big piece that so many miss is speed of movements. Strength is amazing but so is reactivity and quickness. Adding 1-2 sessions per week for agility and quickness especially with lateral moves can be a game changer. Happy training!
The knotted sheet under the door, GENIUS!!!!
Thanks! Go get em!
Amazing review. The context of his explanations were easily digestible and I’d enjoy hearing more. Thank you!
Appreciate it! I may work on a part 2
Minor ACL tear. His lunge routine definitely helped. I don't use knee braces anymore
This is the type of content the creators of UA-cam were hoping for when they made the technology
Wow, appreciate that comment! Let me know anything you'd like to see in future videos!
this has been really helpful and hands on ,thank you!😊
Congratulations on 1K subs!
Thank you! You were probably my first subscriber besides my kids haha. I'll send you a t-shirt if I ever make them
This is so excellent! Thank you for the demonstrations with household items!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for commenting and watching!
I imagine if you put an exercise band over the top of your door with the sheet under the bottom, it could help you ease into the exercise by taking off some of your upper body weight so you can maintain proper form through the range of motion.
Great minds think alike! Check out my video from yesterday: Can't Do a Nordic Hamstring Curl? Do this! (Knees Over Toes Exercise)
trx straps work well to assist during this and the full kneeling lean back one works well with a row
I love your Bruhv!!!! Not to many chaps show their Minnie limitations during exercises... Brilliant my guy just brilliant!! Subscribing right.... now 👍
Thanks for the sub! I have many limitations. Too many to hide!
Somehow I have the feeling that the first time I try this I'm gonna burst my knee
I thought the same! I'm a former Group Ex instructor - overuse issues with one bum knee and I thought I'd have to live with this pain for the rest of my life. I happened upon the KOT guy and after two (only two) days of doing his exercises, my knee pain is 90% gone and feels stronger. I cannot do the exercises like Ben can but it's a start and has given me confidence for the future!
@@patriciabowler slow but steady progress is the key. I'm not worried doing what he does at this point. His knee has been building strength and flexibility for years...
Great stuff!! Appreciate you validating the other guy.
Glad you found it helpful. Thanks for the comment!
I did a few of these exercises and my quads hurt in places I didn't know existed lol the nest day I felt sore in a deep part of my quad. Something I've never felt before. I look forward to reading Ben's book
You are inspiring. I was an athlete. I’m now 60 and to pick something off the floor as you demonstrated when you first knew you had a problem….that is me now
Appreciate that! Keep after it. Age is just a number. Ive had horrible pains throughout my body but rehabbed through them all. Time, effort, and belief are powerful
omg ive been looking for a creative and simple solution to the nordic exercise. thank you so much!
Glad you found it helpful!
As a physiotherapist, i thought your video and explanation was awesome. Appreciate your feedback on this program
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you! Like all the work around, improvising!!!
Glad you like it! I appreciate the comment!