Great looking final grades. Love your approach. Love what you said about “realness” and how it’s not always necessary, as well as letting blacks stay black. Keep it up!
Hi, great video. Just one quick side-note: I´ve been shooting the fp for a year now and I have to disagree with you on the "overexposed" topic. Sure, the DNR test on CineD suggests 11 stops, but I assume the noisefloor is so low, that further stops arent recognized, since you can get close to 15 stops with Highlight Recovery and the sigma alomost matches my C70 with advertised 16+ stops in my tests. The picture in your "overexposed" clip is still displaying in a linear colorspace in the beginning. As soon as you change the colorspace to BM you can see the highlight recovering perfectly, since it´s now mapped to rec709 though the log coure and finally the Arri LUT. I have quite a different approach to mapping my colors correctly, since the BM colorspace is not mapped correctly when using the colorspace transform. Also in P3 Linear the Camera RAW tab is not working the way its supposed to. I could share my workflow with you, if you´re interested. But again, interesting aproach with the Arri LUT and the picture speaks for itself. Keep the FP content rolling Edit: I just noticed, why you might experience clipping in P3 Linear over BM design. You have to turn Tonemapping on the first CST to "none" or choose "Davinci" or"Luminance-mapping" and turn the "Max-Input" slider to 1000, wich is needed for a linear colorspace. And on the last CST choose "Davinci" or "Luminace-mapping". This way the luminace is correctly mapped to rec709
Yeah i knew very well that my method would probably not be optimal, which is why i included that note in the beginning. I also prefer BM colorspace for the dynamic range, but I've been getting less than satisfactory results with CST cineon film log for the Davinci film luts, so i basically used the workflow that "felt best". My issue isn't necessarily the dynamic range as that DR test by cineD was also conducted at 100 iso i believe, but sometimes shadows seem to not have as much recoverable detail. Highlights on the other hand can definitely be recovered a ton and i did notice that in the overexposed clip. You have some interesting findings, i'm working on a bunch of FP videos right now, uploading one now actually, i will try to implement your methods. Always love improving so i appreciate any workflow suggestions
Aloha Jakob, been using my fp raw files in the P3 Linear start ...could you shed light on your workflow from that point thru CST'S to export for highest IQ? thanks!
@@PatrickHaole I have since moved away from the sigma, had a few storage issues and was a little to unreliable with my hardware at the time so I'm not 100% sure about everything. That being said: Upon revisiting my nodetrees just now I have two versions 1. The P3 Linear color space 2. The blackmagic color space Both seem to have their issues... 1. The Linear color space is not mapped correctly as well. At least not the Saturation. The picture is vastly unsaturated and has to be brought back. The issue here: When doing it after the CST the colors shift from the Original FP colors, since you are increasing saturation in another Color Space. If done before the CST or in the Raw tab, it doesn't behave that well, since you are working in linear, which is just not what I'm used to, when working with different cams. There on the other hand the tones don't shift. You could just crank the sat in the Raw Tab to 100 and achieve the same sat as with the BM approach tho you could opt for less, since the BM looks a little over saturated 2. The BM Colorspace is not correctly mapped, or so I think. When selecting BM design Film Gen 1 and BM Design Film in the CST you get a nice image, however I do still prefer the tones from the linear approach by a lot. The added benefit of the BM colorspace are the working raw adjustments. In linear only exposure and wb are really functioning how you would think the rawtab would work, all the other stuff is messed up, in bm however, the sliders seem to be mapped correctly. So to answer your question: my preferred setuo was, and still would be Linear. The first cst would take P3 D60 Linear into Davinci WG and Davinci Intermediate. I would set a custom max Input of 1000nits and use either lum mapping or Davinci. I do almost all the grading work in this CS. The 2. cst would put this into the display CS, so whatever you want. Mostly rec709 gamma 2.4 You would set as input DWG and Davinci Intermediate. There it is important to use either lum mapping or davinci without any custom max input value. So in short: Both ways work... One produces better colors in my eyes but the sat needs to be cranked in the raw tab and almost all other rawtab functionality is lost. But the most important remains. The other is a more streamlined approach that does not give me the colors and the mapping I see to be "correct" ...
What's up CCC, been enjoying your content on this camera. I do a lot of hybrid work and am thinking about pairing this with a BM Cinema 6K for the L mount sharing and daily drivability. Would you mind answering a couple questions about the FP? Do you have any workflows to manage the file sizes of this camera? I've been hearing bits and pieces of color grading footage in Davinci --> Exporting as ProRes or another more manageable file size --> then doing a typical editing workflow. Yes? No? Or do you just eat the cost of storage? Do you think buying an external recorder is worth it for this cam to access BRAW? Or just stick to the RAW DNG? And does the 8 or 10 bit DNG make this camera more friendly for longer takes with dialogue or interview segments? Or have you just stuck to the 12 bit? Thanks! Keep up the great work!
I don't think it's worth the time nor effort to first export to prores, the most common workaround for file sizes are to use SlimRaw, but some people claim that you will see a loss of quality from 4k footage, that I'm not so sure of. I personally eat the cost of storage saving my best files. If you want to download some clips, I have a discord server where i've uploaded some lossless compressed 4k cinemaDNG files. For external recording, that depends on what you plan on using it for, I like how small and light this camera is and using a monitor takes away from the form factor. That being said, with BRAW you can more accurately monitor exposure and use EL zone more confidently. The bigger screen is also more useful esp for focus peeking since you can't zoom in on the lcd. I found myself psychologically filming closer to my subject because the screen is quite small. Overall, i think it is not absolutely necessary unless it is for professional work. I personally think 12 bit is really nice, not sure why you'd want to shoot 8 bit and you definitely want cinemaDNG, thats what makes this camera stand out from the pack. It's actually unnatural how much you can raise and lower exposure with little to no resistance, what you should really consider is whether you want to shoot 1080 or 4k. There is binning in 1080p, but it if you are chasing a film emulation look i think 1080p looks great. Also the super35 mode is also quite nice. Thanks for the question, stay tuned if you want to hear my thoughts on how it compares with the BM6kFF, video should be out within 1-2 weeks
Excited for the video! That's the feeling so far, I just can't decide between FP or FPL. Everyone seems to be dogging on the FPL but it seems like a natural pair as a stills and B Cam.@@cleverghostchili
FPL more megapixels, OLPF slightly softer and has better phase detect AF compared to FP. But the lowlight and dynamic range seem worse for video. FPL - stills. FP - video. Also if you are used to blackmagic dont worry about file sizes, they are comparable to BRAW 3:1. Btw if IBIS is a big concern some people download gyro data software on their phone to post stabilize FP footage @@MattFitzgerald
LOL at me spending the last 2 hours researching this. I think I've decided on FP + Voigtlanders. I owned an M10R for a couple years and this seems to be a fun way to enjoy a similar experience, but with video capabilities. The FP is just so cheap it's insane. I can add the viewfinder if it's necessary, but for the most part just run it as bare bones as humanly possible. The banding terrifies me but I think that's the cost of the pros that come with this camera. Worst case scenario I have a phone in my pocket. I can hold on to it until a better L mount daily carry becomes available or a new FP is released. I'm selling an A7iii to swap everything around and so I'm just distributing my stats differently, if you know what I mean. @@cleverghostchili
Thanks for the tutorial! I never thought it was possible using the Tint slider to adjust skin tones so I learned something really handy. Thanks! So from what I understood, you would suggest people using the Blackmagic profile in Raw tab over P3? Do you think the ARRI Lut is better than a CST to ARRI. I am wondering if it would be a good combination using the P3 to ARRI! Thanks for your answer!
For most situations the blackmagic colorspace will be best for dynamic range. I couldn’t get cst to look right with Arri colorspace like I usually do so I used the r709 lut. The dynamic range didn’t seem compatible with p3 but perhaps you can make it work!
Yes, the final edit has 200 less WB at 4400 and the highlights were pulled back more in the gain wheel and balanced with slightly increasing shadows and exposure and decreasing midtones. I hope its not too misleading as it is still the same workflow i just wanted to shave time off refining the grade as this was my 6th or 7th take and i just used the best version of the final grade
Shot 4k, I usually shoot 4k but 1080 is really cool if you want a more film emulation look. Color is set to neutral or natural, it’s raw so it shouldn’t matter but I could swear it does slightly affect the image, you can see it clearly if you shoot raw with monochrome setting
I have since upgraded the SSD holder to a Dark Power Laboratory holder, which means no loose cables and connects flush with the camera. Can upload a post when ready@@thisisAmitPatil
No worries ask away. I prefer the visuals of the sigma FP, particularly in lowlight. There is a texture to the image that you won’t get from the flatter xh2s. However I prefer the xh2s for ease of use, flexibility, macro, photography, and dayshooting since the highlight roll off feels more graceful
@@cleverghostchili Thanks so much man, I hope to see get big as gxace soon. I had one more question : between the xh2s, fp and s5iix which would you choose if your goal is to shoot a travel video like this(ua-cam.com/video/dyrq8qj7V9Y/v-deo.htmlsi=RnKiljt54dJgCy-W)?
@@cleverghostchili yeah I forgot they make everyones sensors haha Idk for some reaon I prefer using my FP despite having a sony sensor. Probably due to cDNG grading
@@cedartreefilms oh 100%, even with the same sensor cameras can still produce a very different image. I like sigmas color science and the flexibility of dng is mind blowing
Hah! Apparently according to an interview with Arri HQ staff they have different pronunciation in Germany and America, though for the life of me I can never remember which is which
Great looking final grades. Love your approach. Love what you said about “realness” and how it’s not always necessary, as well as letting blacks stay black. Keep it up!
Struggling to keep up as it is!
He really did it, we got a color grading tutorial :o
For you, anything
Hi, great video. Just one quick side-note: I´ve been shooting the fp for a year now and I have to disagree with you on the "overexposed" topic. Sure, the DNR test on CineD suggests 11 stops, but I assume the noisefloor is so low, that further stops arent recognized, since you can get close to 15 stops with Highlight Recovery and the sigma alomost matches my C70 with advertised 16+ stops in my tests. The picture in your "overexposed" clip is still displaying in a linear colorspace in the beginning. As soon as you change the colorspace to BM you can see the highlight recovering perfectly, since it´s now mapped to rec709 though the log coure and finally the Arri LUT. I have quite a different approach to mapping my colors correctly, since the BM colorspace is not mapped correctly when using the colorspace transform. Also in P3 Linear the Camera RAW tab is not working the way its supposed to. I could share my workflow with you, if you´re interested. But again, interesting aproach with the Arri LUT and the picture speaks for itself. Keep the FP content rolling
Edit: I just noticed, why you might experience clipping in P3 Linear over BM design. You have to turn Tonemapping on the first CST to "none" or choose "Davinci" or"Luminance-mapping" and turn the "Max-Input" slider to 1000, wich is needed for a linear colorspace. And on the last CST choose "Davinci" or "Luminace-mapping". This way the luminace is correctly mapped to rec709
Yeah i knew very well that my method would probably not be optimal, which is why i included that note in the beginning. I also prefer BM colorspace for the dynamic range, but I've been getting less than satisfactory results with CST cineon film log for the Davinci film luts, so i basically used the workflow that "felt best". My issue isn't necessarily the dynamic range as that DR test by cineD was also conducted at 100 iso i believe, but sometimes shadows seem to not have as much recoverable detail. Highlights on the other hand can definitely be recovered a ton and i did notice that in the overexposed clip. You have some interesting findings, i'm working on a bunch of FP videos right now, uploading one now actually, i will try to implement your methods. Always love improving so i appreciate any workflow suggestions
Aloha Jakob, been using my fp raw files in the P3 Linear start ...could you shed light on your workflow from that point thru CST'S to export for highest IQ? thanks!
@@PatrickHaole I have since moved away from the sigma, had a few storage issues and was a little to unreliable with my hardware at the time so I'm not 100% sure about everything. That being said: Upon revisiting my nodetrees just now I have two versions
1. The P3 Linear color space
2. The blackmagic color space
Both seem to have their issues...
1. The Linear color space is not mapped correctly as well. At least not the Saturation. The picture is vastly unsaturated and has to be brought back. The issue here: When doing it after the CST the colors shift from the Original FP colors, since you are increasing saturation in another Color Space. If done before the CST or in the Raw tab, it doesn't behave that well, since you are working in linear, which is just not what I'm used to, when working with different cams. There on the other hand the tones don't shift. You could just crank the sat in the Raw Tab to 100 and achieve the same sat as with the BM approach tho you could opt for less, since the BM looks a little over saturated
2. The BM Colorspace is not correctly mapped, or so I think. When selecting BM design Film Gen 1 and BM Design Film in the CST you get a nice image, however I do still prefer the tones from the linear approach by a lot.
The added benefit of the BM colorspace are the working raw adjustments. In linear only exposure and wb are really functioning how you would think the rawtab would work, all the other stuff is messed up, in bm however, the sliders seem to be mapped correctly.
So to answer your question:
my preferred setuo was, and still would be Linear.
The first cst would take P3 D60 Linear into Davinci WG and Davinci Intermediate. I would set a custom max Input of 1000nits and use either lum mapping or Davinci.
I do almost all the grading work in this CS.
The 2. cst would put this into the display CS, so whatever you want. Mostly rec709 gamma 2.4
You would set as input DWG and Davinci Intermediate.
There it is important to use either lum mapping or davinci without any custom max input value.
So in short: Both ways work...
One produces better colors in my eyes but the sat needs to be cranked in the raw tab and almost all other rawtab functionality is lost. But the most important remains.
The other is a more streamlined approach that does not give me the colors and the mapping I see to be "correct" ...
He answered our prayers
Simple, precise and clever tutorial.
Thx !
Better coloring than I who can see colors correctly.
Contrast is king
You are a genius
Great final grade. Just have a question. Is this Alexa log C lut inside davinci or is it the phantom lut ?
Davinci Arri logc lut
Keep up the sigma content!!
Excited to film more! Playing with some new cameras so it’ll take a bit
Amazing work
What's up CCC, been enjoying your content on this camera. I do a lot of hybrid work and am thinking about pairing this with a BM Cinema 6K for the L mount sharing and daily drivability. Would you mind answering a couple questions about the FP?
Do you have any workflows to manage the file sizes of this camera? I've been hearing bits and pieces of color grading footage in Davinci --> Exporting as ProRes or another more manageable file size --> then doing a typical editing workflow. Yes? No? Or do you just eat the cost of storage?
Do you think buying an external recorder is worth it for this cam to access BRAW? Or just stick to the RAW DNG?
And does the 8 or 10 bit DNG make this camera more friendly for longer takes with dialogue or interview segments? Or have you just stuck to the 12 bit?
Thanks! Keep up the great work!
I don't think it's worth the time nor effort to first export to prores, the most common workaround for file sizes are to use SlimRaw, but some people claim that you will see a loss of quality from 4k footage, that I'm not so sure of. I personally eat the cost of storage saving my best files. If you want to download some clips, I have a discord server where i've uploaded some lossless compressed 4k cinemaDNG files.
For external recording, that depends on what you plan on using it for, I like how small and light this camera is and using a monitor takes away from the form factor. That being said, with BRAW you can more accurately monitor exposure and use EL zone more confidently. The bigger screen is also more useful esp for focus peeking since you can't zoom in on the lcd. I found myself psychologically filming closer to my subject because the screen is quite small. Overall, i think it is not absolutely necessary unless it is for professional work.
I personally think 12 bit is really nice, not sure why you'd want to shoot 8 bit and you definitely want cinemaDNG, thats what makes this camera stand out from the pack. It's actually unnatural how much you can raise and lower exposure with little to no resistance, what you should really consider is whether you want to shoot 1080 or 4k. There is binning in 1080p, but it if you are chasing a film emulation look i think 1080p looks great. Also the super35 mode is also quite nice.
Thanks for the question, stay tuned if you want to hear my thoughts on how it compares with the BM6kFF, video should be out within 1-2 weeks
Excited for the video! That's the feeling so far, I just can't decide between FP or FPL. Everyone seems to be dogging on the FPL but it seems like a natural pair as a stills and B Cam.@@cleverghostchili
FPL more megapixels, OLPF slightly softer and has better phase detect AF compared to FP. But the lowlight and dynamic range seem worse for video. FPL - stills. FP - video. Also if you are used to blackmagic dont worry about file sizes, they are comparable to BRAW 3:1. Btw if IBIS is a big concern some people download gyro data software on their phone to post stabilize FP footage @@MattFitzgerald
LOL at me spending the last 2 hours researching this. I think I've decided on FP + Voigtlanders. I owned an M10R for a couple years and this seems to be a fun way to enjoy a similar experience, but with video capabilities. The FP is just so cheap it's insane.
I can add the viewfinder if it's necessary, but for the most part just run it as bare bones as humanly possible.
The banding terrifies me but I think that's the cost of the pros that come with this camera. Worst case scenario I have a phone in my pocket.
I can hold on to it until a better L mount daily carry becomes available or a new FP is released. I'm selling an A7iii to swap everything around and so I'm just distributing my stats differently, if you know what I mean. @@cleverghostchili
Thanks for the tutorial! I never thought it was possible using the Tint slider to adjust skin tones so I learned something really handy. Thanks!
So from what I understood, you would suggest people using the Blackmagic profile in Raw tab over P3? Do you think the ARRI Lut is better than a CST to ARRI. I am wondering if it would be a good combination using the P3 to ARRI!
Thanks for your answer!
For most situations the blackmagic colorspace will be best for dynamic range. I couldn’t get cst to look right with Arri colorspace like I usually do so I used the r709 lut. The dynamic range didn’t seem compatible with p3 but perhaps you can make it work!
Nice work!
What did you do to get the final grade with the clip of the girl in the boat? It feels a little softer and cooler.
Yes, the final edit has 200 less WB at 4400 and the highlights were pulled back more in the gain wheel and balanced with slightly increasing shadows and exposure and decreasing midtones. I hope its not too misleading as it is still the same workflow i just wanted to shave time off refining the grade as this was my 6th or 7th take and i just used the best version of the final grade
what this shoot on 1080p or 4k ? do u usually shoot 1080p than upscale to 4k or keep the 4k 12 bit always? and do u use colour off on sigma fp?
Shot 4k, I usually shoot 4k but 1080 is really cool if you want a more film emulation look. Color is set to neutral or natural, it’s raw so it shouldn’t matter but I could swear it does slightly affect the image, you can see it clearly if you shoot raw with monochrome setting
great tutorial !
For Hugo, everything
Beautiful, tempting me over here to get a Sigma FP 🫣
Nut up, be a sigma man
Great work!! What was your Color Management?
At the top of my head i believe standard Davinci YRGB and rec 709-A
Thank you!! Looks great!!! 🔥🔥
May consider this camera someday
I am already quite fond of this camera, it’s a quirky one
I'm curious what rig you used? Maybe a picture on UA-cam community post or a dedicated video would be helpful. Thank you.
Just a SSD holder and grip. You can find an image in my review of the camera ua-cam.com/video/Vh67sZf9Dro/v-deo.html
Ohh snap! I watched that Video essay first still missed to notice it 😅. Maybe because I've just started to get into this play 😂.
I have since upgraded the SSD holder to a Dark Power Laboratory holder, which means no loose cables and connects flush with the camera. Can upload a post when ready@@thisisAmitPatil
@@cleverghostchili You are awesome, that would be really helpful. What are your thoughts on 'Sigma FP L' though?
@@thisisAmitPatil I have posted the rig. Sigma FP better for video, FPL better for photography. I’d rather use the FP since I have fujifilm for photos
I know this might be a petty question, but I gotta ask it. Would you prefer sigma fp over the xh2s in any case?
No worries ask away. I prefer the visuals of the sigma FP, particularly in lowlight. There is a texture to the image that you won’t get from the flatter xh2s. However I prefer the xh2s for ease of use, flexibility, macro, photography, and dayshooting since the highlight roll off feels more graceful
@@cleverghostchili Thanks so much man, I hope to see get big as gxace soon. I had one more question : between the xh2s, fp and s5iix which would you choose if your goal is to shoot a travel video like this(ua-cam.com/video/dyrq8qj7V9Y/v-deo.htmlsi=RnKiljt54dJgCy-W)?
can i get some sample footage coz im planning to get one
Yes, you can download the files in the discord server where I’ve uploaded 5gb lossless compressed files
I think that messed up the skin a bit, i like the look before!
You nailed exactly why I don't like sony cameras, they look way too hdr and photorealistic. Seem like AI generated images and video
It’s the color for me. They do make great sensors
@@cleverghostchili yeah I forgot they make everyones sensors haha
Idk for some reaon I prefer using my FP despite having a sony sensor. Probably due to cDNG grading
@@cedartreefilms oh 100%, even with the same sensor cameras can still produce a very different image. I like sigmas color science and the flexibility of dng is mind blowing
Nice work but pro tip: Arri is pronounced “Air-y”, not “Are-y” 😘
Hah! Apparently according to an interview with Arri HQ staff they have different pronunciation in Germany and America, though for the life of me I can never remember which is which
is that a girl or a boy? just wonder)
She can be whatever you want him to be
This is not grading, you just ruined the picture.
There are definitely more correct methods as mentioned in the beginning of the video. This is for those looking for the easiest