I would have just scrapped the 32X altogether. There was no reason for it to even exist. Honestly, Sega just needed to move directly to the Saturn once they realized the Sega CD was floundering. Cancel Bug!? No way! That game was actually pretty fun!
Even the bonestock Genesis still had a lot of gas left in the tank. Check out some of the later releases like JurassicWorld. But after seeing Soulstar and AH3 it was obvious that the Sega CD could pull off many of the top selling games for PlayStation and PC: Resident Evil, FF7, etc, or similar games. Now imagine if SEGA had spent those tens of millions of dollars on the Nomad instead of the 32X. There would be new games and consoles sold for the Genesis-Nomad platform until 2005 at least.
Sega should have kept the Mega Drive alive longer as it was still selling well in the west, Sega of Japan discontinued it for their own benefit because it bombed over in Japan.
@@cndctrdjful I'm doing a deep dive on the Genesis DMA and graphics chip right now, and there is a lot more power in these machines than what we saw in most games of the day. Starfox DMA runs at 15-20fps bone stock--with no extra chips. Imagine what we could've gotten with a full dev team and replacing some polygons with sprites and a few tricks.
Until UA-cam was created I wasn’t even aware I was supposed to dislike my 32x. I would never have guessed one of my favorite things from my childhood, that my friends were envious of, was so disliked and seen as a failure. The amount of time I spent watching Virtua Racing replays, kicking Dural’s ass in Virtua Fighter, flying around as Charmy Bee in Knuckle’s Chaotix and rewatching the Tempo intro is astounding. Hate all you want, but as a child I could care less about Sega’s bottom dollar. I love that big old mushroom!
And i can almost agree wholeheartedly. We played the games that came out and found something great. Stellar Assault on 32x and Star Wars Arcade were so incredible to me then and they still make me wonder if the right people made the wrong choice why do these games make me so glad they (and the 32x) were created?
@@mikeg2491 same here! Not many people had the money for a computer back then and definitely not my family…luckily we found the 32x at a Sun TV. It had to be dirt cheap or we never would have gotten it. Thanks Mom!
I agree to a point. I love the 32x even cosmic carnage!🤯 But looking back 32x was definitely not needed. Shadow squadron is my favorite for the 32x. It's a good game in general. I think it's better than star fox. However that game should have just came out on Saturn. (Yes I know about the Saturn sequel.)
The only reason why they couldn't do that was cause those hardware are very different from the Sega System arcade boards. It's not as easy to just code them and port them to the consoles, they had to take their time compressing and taking out features to get those running on the consoles. It's not as easy as what Atomiswave and Naomi are to Dreamcast or Sega Master System was to Game Gear cause all those were basically the same hardware and techs thus why it makes for easy porting to the console but in the case of Genesis, 32X and Sega CD, all of those are waterdown and low power compare to even the Sega System 16 arcade board so porting of those games took time and that's why not all of them was able to make the jump.
@@VOANMega Drive was a System 16 arcade board. The games had smaller ROMs. As time went on, SEGA could've released those huge arcade ROMs (using compression) as $50 cartridges.
@@VOAN The thing is, that once you’ve ported After Burner and Space Harrier to the 32X, porting the rest of the entire super scaler catalogue from Buck Rogers until whatever came before Rad Mobile to the 32X (pre-32bit boards) should be trivial. It’s basically the same game repeated, and they have all of the Arcade assets and source code already. If the cartridge / distribution cost is the issue, then they needed a RAM cart to bundle with a CD 32X version for the more minor selling titles. Sega would know which titles are less popular, based on their Arcade cabinet sales. Sega simply misunderstood how popular and valuable their own IP was, and that there were millions of customers waiting to buy high quality versions of their existing Arcade games. Nintendo have probably 10 games that they release over and over again, and Sega HAD 20-50 similarly popular franchises, but they simply ignored them. Even Daytona USA could have had a 1996, 1997 & 1998 version on the Saturn - they ought to have continued releasing annual versions ala EA until the handling, performance and features were all intact. There was no system link, and no Career / Season for Sega Rally 1995 or Daytona, so the following versions ought to have added those features, and Dreamcast in 2001 could have gotten Daytona 2 and SCUD Race within the 1st year of launch, followed by annual versions with improved features and the tracks from the previous games brought in. By 2003, Daytona 2 could have all of the tracks from Virtua Racing Deluxe, Daytona CCE, Daytona 2001, and SCUD Race, along with online play over broadband. That’s just ONE franchise, and they could have had probably 8 annual releases with significant technical upgrades each time. CDs are not expensive to manufacture. 32X / Mega CD ought to have been swimming in Super Scaler ports. It’s SHOCKING that the Mega CD version of Super Monaco GP is just the damn Mega Drive version, and they BUNDLED IT WITH THE SYSTEM. Showing everyone that there’s no benefit to even spending the money on the Mega CD. Same game. No sprite scaling on a game that was crying out for it. Shockingly bad.
I think you're correct but to be more specific, I'd say those extra resources should have gone into game development and publishing for the 32X. I'm have always believed that despite all the corporate disjunction behind the scenes, if Sega would have included 6 to 12 killer games within the launch window for the 32X (and continued following up with quality titles) that the ensuing disaster could have been avoided. I lived through that era as teen and there was a lot of excitement about the 32X. Bit wars and polygons were SHIZZ during those days and every kid slavered at images of the forthcoming 3D era of gaming. However, were kids and we were kids with SNES and Genesis consoles. Stuck in the 16bit era due to our lack of money, being kids and all. So the promise of the 32X was exactly what was dreamt of - living the 32bit 3D dream for $150. The future was in reach. Yes the Saturn was coming but kids want everything NOW! not in 12 months to come. Kids have fomo. But Sega didn't deliver. They fumbled game development behind the scenes trying to sort through their internal schism. The 32X got a few great titles but not enough and it freaked people out and faltered sales. I think Sega could have sold tons of 32X modules had they simply brought the games. They could have had a strong three year run and bridged the gap between over the 32bit generation. Their whole angle could have been "Look at how awesome these games are for a hundred dollar upgrade!". Then they could have dropped a 64bit system earlier than 1999 and taken that generation by storm. Instead, we got what we got and the rest is history.
Delaying the Saturn would have just made things worse for SEGA. The 32x would have no chance up against the PlayStation so it was pointless and a waste of resources, there was no saving it
@@itsmatt517 If the 32X was a baby Saturn, developers would be more familiar with the real Saturn when it came out, and would have produced better optimized Saturn games earlier on.
@itsmatt517 Not necessarily. The Sega 32x would have been more rival akin to the SNES graphics wise because Nintendo was still releasing games on that system well into 1998 and with the Nintendo 64 already launched. With the whole obsessed, "every single game needs to be 3D" crowd, the Genesis 32x would have flourish (3D games on a cartridge) until around mid 1997 or when the Sega Saturn had bigger game bundles to rival the Sony Playstation and would have lasted until early 1999 (a price cut) before the Sega Dreamcast launched.
Saving the 32X seems like a monkey paw wish to me... personally, I'd probably scale the 32X all the way back and just make it a "lock-on" cartridge for the SVP to bring enhanced cartridge costs down. That would have allow more Genesis games to compete with the SuperFX line-up, at an (eventually) more compelling price point, potentially extending the life of the console, and even if it flopped, wouldn't generate the same bad karma that the 32X did. Don't get me wrong, I actually did enjoy Doom 32X back in the day, and Virtual Racing Deluxe was genuinely awesome, but I'd happily give all that up if it meant Sega actually surviving as a console manufacturer... or surviving a tad longer to be more realistic.
I would have bought that with . Svp lock on cart $49.99 . Launch tiles Virtua fighter $49.99 Virtua cop. $49.99 Star Wars arcade $49.99 Street fighter alpha $49.99 Alien vs predator $49.99 Doom. $49.99 Mk2 tournament ed $49.99 A svp 6-button controller $39.99 with *Two shoulder buttons *extra 1.5 inch,rounded handles *2 small analog sticks like ps vita Latter release Daytona USA Ultimate mk3 X-men cota Revolution x Virtua fighter 2 Virtua cop 2 Duke nukem NBA hang time NFL blitz House of the dead Street fighter alpha 2
The demise of Sega. Constant and repeated fails - out of touch with the gaming public. Can't even port their own games to their own consoles - therefore their own customers can't buy their products. They're still doing it now. They could have sold tonnes of games on the PC, for example. They have enough of a library that they could have opened their own store ala Epic or GOG, and sold peripherals from their old systems by working with a hardware partner. Control pads, steering wheels, flight sticks... unbelievable how badly Sega have failed.
Lack of communiucation and inter departmental jealousy (the story I'd always heard is sega of japan kneecapped sega of north america because they hated that SoNA was successful.) Had they used the sega cd to push more compilations, enhanced ports, and given developers incentives to have second/third/etc runs of games be on cd instead of cartrige would have moved units. And that would have openedthe door for the saturn to have compatibility either directly having the hardware integratedor via a genesis on a chip that code gets sent to type situation or possibly even emulation.
I'd say it was Sega of Japan's terrible decisions and treating Sega of America like they were dumb American idiots. A good idea is a good idea, and a bad idea is a bad idea no matter where it comes from. It should have been full steam ahead, yet SoJ was way too concerned about SoA.
@@jarlwhiterun7478 The Dreamcast was a huge redemption for them but the PS2 coming out only a year later AND being a dvd player was HUGE. Makes you wonder had Sega waited until 2000 and included a DVD player in the Dreamcast...does Microsoft even enter the console market?
It's a good idea to keep the architecture close to the Saturn for compatibility, but that's why the 32X needed two CPUs. One of the biggest issues with Saturn game performance was in utilising the dual 28MHz SH-2 CPUs effectively. Utilising more than one CPU requires multithreading the game code, which is a substantial change from single threaded code. The Playstation has only one CPU at 33MHz, so many developers ported their single threaded Playstation games to the Saturn utilising only one of the Saturn CPUs. By reducing the 32X to one CPU you'd only encourage this behaviour and leave the Saturn to suffer in performance when compared to the Playstation. It's a tough mission to rescue the 32X, but I'd position it more as a 32-bit 2D accelerator to the Megadrive + Mega CD than a "Saturn light". Require the Mega/Sega CD, add the Saturn's VDP1 and more RAM, then use the Mega CD's sound hardware and Motorolla 68000 as the CPU. Cut the price of the Mega CD. Sell the 32X as a 3-in-1 bundle and create a Megadrive+MegaCD+32X combined hybrid at a cheaper price than buying all three individually. The sprite scaling and colour of VDP1 would make combined with the Megadrive & Mega CD hardware would make it great for 2D games, including many of Sega's System 32 arcade games, and effectively differentiate it from the Saturn's more 3D focus. 2D games could still be ported to both consoles, with the Saturn still being more powerful in that area, but they wouldn't directly compete with each other as much as they did. It would also make Mega CD owners less aggrieved of their expensive purchase and therefore more likely to stick with Sega when the Saturn is released.
Developers also ignored the second CPU because it was just plain hard to use. Hand-coding multi-threaded assembly is difficult, and C compilers of the time were basically worthless at the task. The Playstation was just straight-up easier to develop for, between the much simpler architecture and the day-one availability of a comprehensive C-basd development kit(while Sega initially assumed people wanted to continue on with raw assembly programming). People forget exactly how much developers liked the PS1's ease of use.
I said this before, a few more SVP games instead of the 32X would have helped Sega immensely. They would be presented as a treat, like Virtua Racing was: 'here, have a little taste of the future while we prepare our next generation machine.'
@@VOAN Yes, I know Virtua Racing cost almost twice as much as a regular game. But think of it as one of those very high end products that companies make in small amounts just to show off. It's an advertisement for the company itself: just a couple more SVP games would have presented Sega as the leader in 3D games.
Yup. Imagine if the Saturn came out in early 1996 with a reconfigured single processor, the extra RAM built in, and a fleshed out launch library of good games with full third party support. Undercut the PS1 by $20 and you got it. The Saturn killed the 32X.
That's not a bad idea... The 32X would have done a perfectly good job of keeping the Genesis in the game if it hadn't been undermined by Saturn hot on its heels... They could have given the Saturn another year or two to work out all the kinks and deliver a more well-rounded system. (And they wouldn't have gotten _wtfpwned_ at the first E3 by that legendary Sony mic drop moment.)
I'll add another bit, since both the "new" 32x and the coming Saturn would have the same main processor and VDP1, I would turn the latter compatible with the 32x software library using the cartridge slot.
The 32x’s mere existence is just so emblematic of the infighting between Sega of Japan and Sega of USA. If only the two were in lockstep and kept a unified vision. I don’t even think this imaginary 32x could have ever come out with how bad the in fighting was there. They’d probably tell Sega of USA to keep their hands off the chips rather than work with them.
I like my 32X, but totally agree with you. I still like the fact that it is still getting some love today with Golden Axe graphic upgrade on the 32X, but it is too little too late
Save the 32X by making sure it never happened, extending the Genesis’ capabilities by incorporating the so called 32 bit enhanced chips directly into the cartridges. That way the Genesis remains viable no matter what the SNES throws at it, and Sega are free to dedicate their resources to the Saturn. No bad juju either: people are stoked for Sega’s new beast and no one feels burned. Great brand affection leads to eager early adoption, and the rest is history. No, once the 32X was out, it opened Pandora’s box, and Sega was never the same again.
You really think consumers would be happy paying $90+ for those "enhanced" games? You remember standard 32x games were already $65-75 right? Your idea is bad. Virtua Racing cost $90 and that was just an SVP chip. Plus, the 32x needed it's own power supply, which means that a standard cartridge connection wouldn't have enough power to run those chips, even if *somehow* they managed to make them small enough to fit in a cartridge. Please think about your ideas from an actual technical standpoint instead of just assuming that you are smarter than actual engineers who may be reading your "brilliant" ideas.
Amen, brother. The 32X could never be a worldwide success as long as the Saturn existed and the Saturn could never be a worldwide success as long as the 32X existed.
Probably my favorite video series by you. Such a fun look back on history and some fun what-if scenarios. Always sparks good discussion. Thanks Sega Lord X.
It's wild seeing the Virtua Cop gameplay and realizing Sega reused those same crosshairs for the shooting segments in Yakuza 0 and Yakuza Kiwami. 20+ years later, that's one hell of a reference, and knowing Sega, I wouldn't be surprised if someone who worked on Virtua Cop is still there working on those games.
If anything it started in Yakuza 1, then 0 has it, then they just copied 0’s version onto Kiwami and made it play out like 1’s car chase. Also the Yakuza games have a ton of Virtua Fighter moves and movesets in the game.
Thank you very much this Video :) Honestly imo this is one of the best "Lets save" as you kept everything intact, didn't cut a system from release. Letting the Sega Saturn mature and release later in NA and EU; to keeping the cartridge system alive in the US as the SNES was still chugging along fine until 96.
It'll still failed cause the Sega Saturn already exist. That will only confused third party even more cause now Sega had three consoles to worry about: the Saturn, the 32X, and the portable that should never had existed especially since the Game Gear and Nomad are still in the market.
There was a plan for the Neptune console which was basically the stand alone 32X that would still be compatible with the Genesis and it was supposed to come in under $200. But like others say, it's all about the Saturn release.
Instead of Neptune and 32X, SEGA could've released the lightweight 1993 version of the Saturn with only one CPU, 1MB of RAM, no DSP, and only VDP2. Most Saturn games in Japan only used the other chips, anyway. The extra RAM and processors could've been made avaliable an optional addon. The lightweight machine could be sold at a loss for $199 and still play 80-90% of Saturn games.
The only way for the 32x to have succeeded is if Sega never made the Saturn to begin with. Then Sega would have to go all in on the Neptune making a upgraded system that's compatible with all the old genesis games. This might have worked as it would have been the only new system at the time that was backwards compatible.
I loved the 32x...seeing star wars arcade on release day made it a day 1 purchase. With unlimited resources for teams to pump out quality software it would have been even better
I was also keen on 32X bought it with Star Wars. Virtua racing was awesome too. Compared to my friend’s 3DO it was a bit lacking. It was just a lot cheaper if you already had a mega drive/genesis.
13:53 : “while these games entertain Saturn owners in Japan…. “ In this scenario the problem won’t be the Saturn owners in Japan ,but the *PlayStation owners in U.S* !! Also in this scenario you describe ,you make a fundamental mistake : *Saturn will become instantly obsolete in U.S. since NO U.S. SEGA customer will pay for 2 different consoles with so similar hardware(except the CD-rom) within 1-2 years difference so* …. Since the U.S. customers will have to chose between a (enhanced)32X and a PlayStation , *they will inevitably start comparing the games* between the (enhanced)32X and the PlayStation !! This will bring us to the point I had asked you in the past : do you honestly believe that an(enhanced but still without CD-rom)32X MegaDrive add-on can match the level of quality that the PlayStation games had ? the fact that the U.S. customers won’t have access to the Saturn will make the games- comparison even worse for SEGA. They will have to find a way for this(enhanced but without CD-rom) 32X to compete with early PlayStation masterpieces games such as : *Tekken ,wipeout ,Resident Evil ,Ridge Racer ,Air Combat ,DieHard Trilogy* ,and later with even greater masterpieces such as : *Metal Gear Solid ,FinalFantasy VII ,Gran Turismo ,Colin McRae Rally ,F1 ’97 ,Disruptor ,Dino Crisis ,Tomb Raider ,Silent Hill* ,and God knows how many more. If SEGA had initially kept SATURN only for the Japanese customers and promote the 32X for the U.S. customers , when the time would come for the inevitable game-comparison the (enhanced but without CD-rom) 32X would get … *slaughtered* and its once proud(like myself) MegaDrive customers totally embarrassed… Focusing heart&soul to the SATURN(*and better price and launch games) was SEGA’s only chance in the 32-bit war …(as you said in your conclusion )
I don't know. Every Yen and every Dollar invested in the 32X was missing on the Saturn side of things. And for what, so that Sega could counter the Atari Jaguar of all things? I like your approach here, but I think if Sega scrapped the 32X and released the Saturn as planned and not earlier, putting that money saved into Saturn games, that would have served them better. I mean the 32X was started on in early 1994 and released later that same year - holy crap, when would anyone put out all the games for that? It's a damn miracle they managed to even do this. So that's why I say scrap it. And I say that as a 32X owner, actually liking the beast (not as much as my Jaguar, but stil). Well, basically what you summed up at the end.Anyway, entertaining thoughts, great video. Cheers!
In hindsight, 20 million, Genesis owners ended up switching right over to the PlayStation or PC. The Saturn was a $400 mess of chips and PS2 style memory moves by the SCU DSP. So many SEGA developers and gamers simply became SONY developers and gamers. So the only chance of keeping many of those Genesis fans was to redevelop those franchises for the Sega CD or 32X.
What a bangin' ass video. Well done, brother. Like others, my hope is that the modding/romhacking community will breathe new life into the 32X and develop some truly impressive games for it.
I always wondered what could have been done with CD32x games if given a dev team with the time, talent, passion and money. All we got was upgraded FMV trash, but when u combine the potential of the entire tower of power, feel like amazing things could have been achieved
the 32X would have needed its own RAM or an external RAM cart in order to make any real use of the CD storage. It can't access the Mega CD's RAM very efficiently. An expensive game that runs from a cart and a CD, where the cart contains both RAM & ROM, could work, but that would have cost a fortune back in 1995. Possibly a plug-through cart like Sonic & Knuckles, but only containing 1MB RAM (or more), then the games' ROM cart can sit on top. Plus a CD - it would be wild, but it could be done.
@@TechRyze Ye, its pretty unlikely even if folks tried back in the day....but a man can dream xD Heck, even having cartridge games that came with an soundtrack cd woulda been neat, and was possible back then but no devs did it as far as I know. Only game I know of that used that feature was Pier Solar.
Apparently Sega also had plans for an SVP chip add-on Allegedly (I have no citation for this) the plan was to sell the SVP chip as a pass through cartridge add on packaged with virtual racing for around $100 then sell SVP chip games that would make use of it without the price of manufacturing the chip for each one.
I really hope that some involved programmers will restore or create almost all the 2D arcade games from SEGA on 32x. Turbo Outrun/classic Outrun, Outrunners are doable, i don't think so about Golden Axe Revenge of Death Adder. There's also tons of non-sega arcade game i believe could be ported to the 32X. It's preferable to stick on 2D games as 32X performs it super well, but "save the Saturn" is a bit utopic... it's the hardest console to program never conceived (PS2 second place)
I love it when you do these type of videos. The Saturn one was really good and you were fair about dropping things to focus where the same time and money should’ve been spent instead.
Sega should gave launched the 32x with Powerdrift, Outrun, Thunderblade, Golden Axe RODA, SF 2 Hyperfighting, or Alpha right out of the gate with an enhanced Sonic CD
Add Vitrua Cop, Virtual ON and Daytona with the ability to daisy chain up to 8 systems and TV's together for multiplayer! It should have been sold at a higher premium price as an Arcade at home system and came with an arcade stick, steering wheel and light gun.
I love your "Let's Save" videos. It makes me happy to see all these Sega consoles receiving some love again! I truly believe that the Sega Saturn and Dreamcast could have been successful had they moved development fully to those consoles and all the games that ended up on 32X and CD just were developed for the Saturn and Dreamcast instead. So much time and and money could have been saved and they would have survived the Playstation onslaught that was heading for them.
If they'd have done the Sega CD right (similar to how you talked it up in your video about saving it), there wouldn't have ever been any need at all for the 32X. The transition to a proper 32-bit CD-ROM platform would've then been much smoother for Sega. Fwiw, 8MB cartridges in 1994 could've easily reached $200 at retail (not unlike the cost of Neo Geo carts of the era), so I'm not entirely sure they would've helped in keeping costs down, tbh...
I think the Sega CD was a good experiment that by the time the market told them fmv games sucked, the hardware was already out. But I agree, they could have moved away from fmv games and just made really great 16 but games with fmv elements and then let Saturn be THE 32 bit Sega offering when it was ready.
I agree, they should have pushed the Sega CD more and forget about anything else until the Saturn. An official Sega CD + Cartridge combo console would have been better than the 32X.
The 32X wouldn't have been a thought if they had made the Sega CD better. If the Sega CD could handle more color, it would have been allowed much bigger upgrades to Genesis games by itself.
The SEGA Genesis VDP could draw 256 out of 3,375 colors in Shadow Highlight Mode and do 320x448i. We rarely saw either and never saw them both put together.
The 32X should've used the Motorola 68EC020 chip-it's the natural successor to the Mega Drive's 68K, easy to program, cheaper, and powerful enough to develop games that the 16-bit generation (or SNES chips) could never have imagined.
The Amiga 1200 and the CD32, which launched in '92 and '93, both had the 68EC020 CPU. It was a fairly powerful chip, but as someone who had the Amiga 1200 back in the day, I'd say the 32X has superior 3D graphics performance.
@@Marcus_K it’s beyond comparison. I mean even if it’s a mess I mean it’s a dedicated GPU to draw polygons while the Amiga could draw lines and fill but has no concept of polygons as an hardware object. It’s a CISC vs RISC and real cache compared to the not one but two SH2 so yeah the 32x is in every way much much more powerful than an A1200 Just to put it in perspective a CISC from 84 vs a RISC from 93 or if it was 94. Just that should end any debate :)
@Marcus_K @litjellyfish Thanks for the comments. I know the CD32 and Amiga 1200 used that chip, but my knowledge of this platform comes from UA-cam videos. What I find intriguing about the 68EC020 is that it was a viable chip for the consumer market as early as 1993, just a year after the Sega CD's launch in the US. If Sega had developed an add-on with this chip instead of the Sega CD, we might have seen some amazing games, like many of the examples Sega Lord X mentioned in his video. Especially if games released for the Mega Drive from 1993 onwards were designed for this hardware, the game library would have been very compelling.
@@ventura3600 sorry you lost me a bit now. Are we mxing the SH2 with the 68 series how? The 86EC020 at 92, 93 was exactly a bit dated and weak considered PC etc. Also the 68020 itself with no new GPU would have done little for the Megadrive. Basically it would allow for better game logic which neger really was a true bottleneck for MD. It could have aided with compression. So graphics could have been decompressed only the fly to vram resulting in more verity in platform games etc. But just a 68020 added to the Megadrive would not allow 3D games really. As said even today with the smartest coders it would be able to run a good Wolfenstein type of game maybe 20fps Or did I miss understand you? Asking so I am not totally off with what I tell :)
Outrunners would have been a great game to have on the Saturn alongside the rest of the Sega Ages arcade titles, too bad it only got a lackluster genesis port
Of topic sort of but maybe Sega Lord X should do a let’s save the Mega Drive, yeah i know what you’re thinking, wasn’t the Mega Drive a success in the west? Yes it was but there’s things could and should have happened that i would have changed with the Mega Drive, especially in Japan.
I've been waiting for this video. I love this series. I loved my 32x. I also agree with you 100% on what should have been changed and also that it never should have been made. As always, thanks for the great videos
Exactly! Just scrap it entirely and maybe the Saturn could actually stand a chance...but there's got to be a Sonic 4 on launch day...with no 32X just turn Knuckles Chaotix into a mainline Sonic title and make it available on launch day.
It was the changing, confusing road map that drove off developers retailers and gamers. It was so obvious back in those days and yet I see so few people now acknowledge that fact.
@MaxAbramson3 it was basically a poor man's next gen system that assumed you already had a Genesis otherwise it wouldn't work, and required its own power supply...it was a horrible concept that was dead on arrival, and killed the Saturn before it could arrive.
@@PaperBanjo64 Now that I think of it, SoA's nVidia based console (got all of two months of development for it) was more powerful than PS1, Saturn, or N64. Consider this: build that nVidia based console but use the two SH2s for the CPU/GTE to generate the 180,000 polygons per second, letting nVidia's NV1 perform the rendering. When Saturn fails, SoA and SoE would have the Sega CD + 2-SH2 + nVidia NV1 platform with over 1200 Genesis and Sega CD games already, plus a few dozen more for their nVidia CD console.
3:48 my personal what if scenerio for the Xbox 360. The 360 should've cooked in the oven long enough to have Halo 3 as a launch title and 2005 and 6 did nothing for Microsoft considering the red ring of death. That Elite version should've came out the status quo, waiting for the 2010 S version to perfect it.
@@penguinreloaded7756 With some support yes. Consoles in general designed their software based on the strengths of the hardware. In Mario 64 we kept entering the same stage to do different tasks because of the limitations of the cartage space. But it worked. But to your credit, if developers were staying away from the Jaguar it was for a reason. Sega Lord X would likely address this issue early on if he ever decides to make a that video.
@@maroon9273 idk, the issue with the GameCube wasn’t hardware itself, what hurt them primarily was 9-11, and using the discs they used, which turned off the big 3rd party developers and pushed them towards the PS2, because the GameCube was just as, if not more powerful than the PS2
Genesis has been receiving a lot of love from independent developers lately. Hopefully someone releases a 32x game that brings back some interest to it.
Also, an all-in-one mega drive and 32X 'Neptune' console was probably required to entice new people to buy the format, or at least some kind of 32X and Mega Drive bundle.
Here's what I would've done. Put all development into the Saturn and launch it at the normal time instead of early in the west. If you're going to launch the 32X at all, why not put more development into the Nomad and see if you can't shrink down the 32X components into that portable factor in a few years time and have it compete with the GBA? Release this new console as the Sega Nomad 32X. That way you have a portable Sega console that already has a great back catalog and can have it's own upgraded new games. And it doesn't matter if it's not as powerful because it's portable and is it's own development rather than competing as another home console option. Give it some link up functionality with the Dreamcast like the Neo Geo Pocket Color had originally, and I think that's a viable way to make the 32X sell decently if you can get the battery life to be decent. Hell it might even give hardware developers enough time to make the 32X a real power house of a portable system instead of a flop of a budget console if it comes out around the same time as the Dreamcast or even a couple years later in 2001 to go head to head with the GBA. It's a strange idea for sure and I'm not even sure if that would work but I'd love to see an alternate reality where that happens and see how the Nomad 32X does against the GBA in 2001. :D
@@Adamtendo_player_1 @Adamtendo_player_1 Yeah, the SH2 was only $20 at that point, but so was the MIPS 4300vr and PA-RISC 7100. On the other hand, the DMA and VDP have shown that they can pull off 3D polygons with no additional hardware. The Sega CD was the only addon needed, in any case.
@@MaxAbramson3 Games like Panzer Dragoon Saga actually can't be run on the 32X Sega CD. That game required a ram cart and had 3 disc. Sega CD had no 3D polygonal capability and 32X had no ram support (one reason why there's no RPG released for it), even if you combine them, both lacked analog control which can't be done unless you own a Saturn.
It is really hard to make new videos, let alone a new topic. You always have a great video to watch. I love playing my Saturn more than my Dreamcast. Now that have the Fenrir DUO, I have been playing all kinds of awesome games. Take care, Happy Gaming from Joe's Retro World
Let's save it: Sega does not release the Sega CD, Sega announces the 32X which expands Sega Genesis with CD and 32-bit, a proper release of the Sonic 32X included with the machine.
Or how about the original SH1 Saturn project which had one half the chips and would have been easier to develop for. It would've been in stores by Christmas of 1993 for $300.
Not releasing the Sega CD means Sega falls behind the PC Engine CD by several years. This also means that Snatcher won't be coming to the Sega CD and instead will be a PC Engine CD exclusive. This also goes for games like Lunar, Vay, Popful Mail, and Eternal Blue. Since Sega CD doesn't exist, those games found a home on the PC Engine CD.
32x has Sprite Rotation (which the MegaCD has), Sprite Scaling, PWM audio, 317 combined Genesis+32x colors less you wanna use 15 bit direct palette mode for uh... Still frames or menus with lower vertical resolution, and polygons. Godot's 2D mode supports all but polygons basically leaving everything to sprites. I can see Godot 3 and 4 being a great platforms for making psuedo 32x games. I would love to be a part of a Halo 32x project if I could.
Save Sega by not listening to Sega US, cancelling the 32x and making sure those extra Hitachi chips made it into the much needed saturn hardware (there was a Saturn console shortage at launch). Redirect all development resources from the 32x software to the Saturn for launch and you may have had a much better time - just to name a couple things.
I loved the 32x my buddy had. We played it all the time and it had this underdog charm. It only had a few good games, but it still let you use the Genesis and stay connected to that beautiful generation
While that's good not all Genesis games will work on the 32X. In some cases you will had to remove the 32X to play your full library of Sega Genesis games.
Forget Tom Kalinske. We needed Sega Lord X! Why couldn't any Sega executives think of half of this stuff? Really fun series SL and looking forward to the saving Sega video. and on a serious side note, how could Tom Kalinske be so smart and realize things like packaging Sonic and lowering the console price would work and not do the same things for Sega CD or 32X? Oh well.
The only games we played on the Genesis were Streets of Rage 2 and Golden Axe. So besides a power socket splitter, or power brick with 2 power cables, it most of all would benefit from those franchises. With Revenge of Death Adder already made, making it a built into the unit game (just like Hang On and Safari Hunt on the SMS) would be great.
@@TechRyze I'm glad they aren't 32X exclusives, that way we save money. Games seem to get worst when they got ported to 32X for some reasons: WWF WrestleMania Arcade, Mortal Kombat II, Primal Rage, Brutal, NBA Jam Tournament Edition, WWF Raw, and Pitfall all plays terrible on 32X compare to their Genesis versions. They only look good but their gameplay seems to take a toll. The only three that benefits are After Burner Complete, Virtua Racing Deluxe, and Space Harrier.
Basically a Saturn Jr. I think either scrap the 32x altogether or it should be released earlier, bundled with Sega CD into something unique, not two separated peripherals.
I love the 32X mostly because it's an underdog and most people seem to just write it off. I'm so glad I got one 10 years ago when it was a lot cheaper and the games were massively cheaper! Insane how much a copy of Metal Head is now. I just wish it had gotten an Out Run Port would have been perfect on this system. Only Missing 2 games for a complete PAL set. Love playing it to this day.
@@John-nb6ep A Daytona port would be really cool. Darxide and Zaxxons Motherbase are the last two for a complete PAL set. Although having played both on my Everdrive, I think I can live without them😀
The sheer number of changes you had to make here to make the 32X (and by extension, Saturn) work here shows how bad an idea it really was. It is such a wild fact that Sega went for the 32X at all.
6:48 NUH-UHHHHH. No, the 32X sound was a joke. SNES pumping out symphonic heart-moving pieces while 32X shat out 80s synth was not OK in the mid-90s. You've really gone too far as a fanboy to not see sound on the 32X as a problem.
The extra sound channels on the 32X would have upgraded the Genesis sound enough to give you movie level compositions with Q-Sound capability. I think it would have been enough. It wasn't CD quality but it also wasn't CD pricing.
@@SegaLordXAn SH2 version of the SVP LockOn would still cost $49.95, be capable of 90,000 flat shaded polygons per second, and still ne out by Spring with already developed Daytona USA, Star Wars Arcade, Virtua Racing, and Virtua Fighter. 20 months to bring out Sega CD+SVP games had SEGA stuck with their regular launch schedule. He'll, SoJ should've let SoA bring out their nVidia console in 1995 instead.
The reality of the 32X was to make Sega of America look like dook. The fact is, Sega had failed in Japan and Sega of America was doing pretty well, at that point in software releases in a region that had accepted the Genesis. Third party had rallied to the machine to sell sports titles. Eternal Champions had actually sold well. Sega of Japan, in essence was jealous and wanted to curb stomp SOA. Not only did they give them the impossible tasking of creating a stop gap system, but they also released the Saturn early. They had a loyal, American market and betrayed consumer confidence. Never to regain it. I think if they cared, the 32X would have been something. Sadly it wasn't ever to be anything and wasn't supported as it should have been.
I genuinely believed Sega should have doubled down on Sega CD instead. It had a great library and they could have sold classic games on CD media for $20. I also believe CDs being cheap is why it had pretty great 3rd party support compared to some other platforms. Also, 32X's notable content should have just been on Genesis, Sega CD or Saturn. Just a thought, but Sega made a fairly impressive port of Virtua Racing on Genesis with the SVP chip. They probably could have used that or something better to put Doom, Star Wars and Virtua Fighter on Genesis.
One thing I’d have added was a bonus for those who had a Sega CD. Also sell audio CDs that can be played on the Sega CD and partnered with a 32X cartridge giving you CD audio
The Saturn's cartridge slot should have been used for backwards compatibility with the Genesis/MegaDrive games, along with having support for the 32X cartridges. EDIT: After watching the video... • Cancel all 32X CD games. Convert those over to the Saturn platform. • Develop a 32X/Saturn all-in-one system setup similar to the WonderMega/JVC X-EYE (that way you could still use a Expansion Cart for save states and/or extended RAM. • Bring more games over from Japan!
Save it for what? The Sega CD and 32X should never have been produced. These only crippled the Saturn's launch. Sega had no focus and Sony came in and took almost every older edgy Sega kid from them. Sega was finished at this point. The Dreamcast was a hail mary and the PS2 finished the job. They were barely hanging in there with Nintendo as it was and then they panic because the 3DO and the CDi got to market with a CD-based system and so they bring out a shitty add-on? Stupid, stupid company. They are the WCW of the video game world.
I was born in 1994 and Sega are idiots. Because of them, I'm a Playstation fan, PS1 happened. Rest is history for Sony. Sega had no business releasing Sega CD and 32X. They forgot to market themselves after Genesis and got too comfortable. Then Saturn comes out a year later in 1995 and software wasn't the same from 32 X in 1994 even though both were 32 bit. Terrible timing for an add on and awful marketing with no games. 32X should have been a console and not an add on. Sega got too comfortable with Genesis. This and Sega CD killed their company and then Saturn fell apart because games were hard to program on there compared to Playstation 1 and N64. They fell apart ever since even with Dreamcast good.
The Genesis / MD was the market leader and outsold Nintendo's consoles for years in the West in the early '90s. They did a great job until that point and managed to break Nintendo's stranglehold on the console market. The Playstation benefited from all of that, as by the mid-90's third-party developers were more interested in leaving Nintendo's ecosystem. The problem with the Saturn was 90% the Saturn itself, maybe 10% the 32X and 0% the Sega CD.
There was so much potential for the 32x, I remember buying mine back when it came out and just being in awe. Yes I was trying to upgrade on a budget since I already had the genesis and Sega cd. If they had put some of the great arcade ports I think it would’ve been a good system.
Sega CD+SVP was the plan promoted by SoA and the Kalinske Team. Al Nilsen, Roger Hector, and others have said this in interviews. But did you know that SoA had worked with nVidia in 1995 to create a working 3D game console that Sonic eXtreme had been developed for? It was cheaper and MUCH more powerful and would've mopped the floor with competitors. As usual, SoJ killed that and demanded the May $400 launch... with almost no games! Having said that, without the pending Saturn, the 32X CD would've been fine. 40,000 textured polygons would've been enough for mid 90s.
@@maroon9273 No, it was a completely new CPU/GPU using some RISC chip and nVidia NV1, I believe. I can't find info on the CD vs. cartridge issue, but it would've destroyed everything else for 3D. SoJ cancelled it.
@@Tolbat No, the 3DO only had the same 2MB of RAM and 1MB of VRAM as the Saturn and PS1. All had 512KB of audio RAM, IIRC, though the Saturn had the best sound. The 3DO apparently had the more powerful graphics pipeline, but the Saturn had the most powerful CPU package, at about 150 MIPS.
Sega of Japan was very stupid, however Nvidia wasn't really the name they are now. It's funny cause the NV1 released for PC had a Sega Saturn joystick port. If that happened It would probably have actually competed with the Playstation (and won ?)
@Tolbat I haven't seen this yet, And it sounds like you need a flash cart for that. That plays ATARI JAGUAR CD music. Sure , they can't make a single cartridge that can do this for Doom on Atari, like they did 32X Doom Resurrection.
Hey SLX, I love the idea of using the VDP1 from the Saturn in your 32x alternative. The Mega Drive doing the backgrounds could make the 32x games look good, I mean it already did for the real 32x. The Mega Drive sprites could have been used as part of the background allowing for up to 61 colours and add a bit of life to them too. Your solution being more compatible with the Saturn would also allow the Saturn version of the games to shine, its version of the games using the VDP2 could have more colours and use 3D in them too, allowing for a greater contrast in the games. Something to note though, the VDP1 used 2x256kb RAM for its framebuffers, that costs a lot, so you'd go with a more reasonable 2x128kb RAM for 32x. Since you only have 1 SH-2 CPU, you could have system RAM to 128kb leaving the same total RAM. Problem is, the VDP performance would tie in with the RAM, but even if the VDP1 performance was halved, it would be still more powerful than the 32x VDP and it would still be more compatible with Saturn games. Texture Gouraud shading performance: 32x VDP: 20,000 polygons/sec Saturn VDP: 140,000 polygons/sec Halved Saturn VDP: 70,000 polygons/sec So a 3D game on your 32x, think Virtua Fighter, could run at 30fps with Mega Drive doing the backgrounds and the Saturn version at 60fps could have VDP2 doing the backgrounds.
I agree with your end statement that the 32x shouldn't have happened as there are more problems than you mentioned, you also have ROM costs to consider. 32x Doom was 3MB a ROM while the Doom Resurrection 2.2 mod increases it to 4MB. Larger ROMs massively increase costs and anything over 4MB requires bank switching and increases the costs again. One of the Mega Drive Jurassic Park games used 2MB by itself, adding more games and increasing asset quality would smash the costs to crazy levels. That cannot be part of the plan. Games like Virtua Fighter, Star Fox, Virtua Racing don't use a lot of textures on their 3D models, as such their ROM sizes are relatively small. You would have to think that way to keep ROM costs down. But, going along with the fun the 32x alternative you could have had the best of 3DO and Jaguar games ported to it, along with more Sega arcade home ports, and some future Saturn games. Since Doom doesn't use the VDP chips on the Saturn, it would still be CPU based on your 32x and it won't be as good as the Doom Resurrection mod as that uses both SH-2 chips while the original only used one. I wonder if the Mega Drive hardware could have been used to help, perhaps processing user input, whether enemies can hear you, and the HUD?
AGree with most of what is here and had similar thoughts. However I'd keep Sega CD support on some level. If only to pay off those who had sega cd already. I mean basically with game music. That would have solved the Road Rash 32X problem, by allowing the game to stream the music from the drive and layer it with the games effects. Throw the disc in the box with the game for free, and you're good to go, let the game detect the drive and alert the player to insert the disc if they desired the upgrade or skip it. I think the saturn (given the extra year) would have been architected better and likely stood better against the playstation and n64 had they done so. Would even have allowed for Genesis and 32X backward compatibility, helping to justify its cost and allowing the parallel markets to exist. Turning the 32x into a stair stepping option and again utilizing a packed in disc to enhance the game if they moved to Saturn Hardware. A Sega Neptune could then become a cheap viable replacement for the Genesis and allow the 32x to live till maybe 97, before Saturn prices finally got low enough that the entire consumer market was ready to move over. Though I think all of this would prevent Sega from making a clean break with the saturn, though Sega would have needed less of a hail mary with the dreamcast at the time to make that too large of a problem.
I see two options. One was to upgrade the Sega CD and make it a bit more powerful and also sell it as a standalone product. Then delay the Saturn for a year or two. The second was to just scrap it all together. I like your ideas, in that I'd just up the write speed for about 3x so it could run 2d games ate 60fps
IMO they should of never done the 32x. Instead they should have made a solid five games with the svp chip that was used for vitrua racing. The technology was there and they could of made svp virtual fighter, Star Wars arcade, a 3D adventure game, 3D puzzle game along with virtua racing
the original design called for twin Motorola processors one was for parsing the genesis output and one was for routing information to it. basically it would have given them the ability to multiply genesis specs instead of adding to them. which is to say genesis gets 64 colors routing and parsing means 32X gets 64x4. because of that architecture development would be entirely portable. meaning that porting all sega arcade games would be effortless. one reason they cited changing it was because model one games were excluded from the model and it had a completely different library for polygon based graphics. meaning a virtual fighter or racer would have to be designed for this architecture from the ground up.
This got me thinking, seeing how Mega Drive never did well in Japan: What changes would you make for Mega Drive in Japan and what impacts would it make overseas? Be it R&D, marketing, and library. Personally, I would put my best foot forward for a strong line up by launch of arcade ports: Fantasy Zone, Shinobi, and Alien Syndrome, among others. Also, I would reject licensing our games to the likes of Asmik and Tengen since we're competing against Nintendo and NEC. Additionally, I would decline the Osomatsu-kun license and instead approach Tezuka Productions for an Astro Boy game (think Mega Man meets Space Harrier). Addendum: After thinking about the SVP, I want to propose a special compression chip named Sega Compression Processor (SCP). This would allow us to gain more milage with the ROM sizes and even keep production costs down when needed.
Although I felt conned by Sega with the 32X, it did introduce me to my favourite game of all time, DooM. In my eyes, the most influential game of all time. It wasn't the first FPS, but it popularised the genre to the point that it changed the gaming landscape forever. I won't own a machine that doesn't have the originals available. With the recent releases of Quake and the sequel, my all time favourites are mine. ( A Musha and Thunderforxe 4 release would be a sweet bonus)
I think the best route would have been to use a double-speed disc drive and a console form factor similar to the Saturn, Sega CD, and the 32x couldve been a much simpler device to use and implement as an upgrade in the cart slot
Awesome vid once again man! I had the 32X back in the day. I was young, and was just excited for new stuff! I lived at home and had a job, so why not? While I thought it was cool, there just wasn't enough support for it, and ended up playing Genesis games again after getting it. I even got a Sega CD after i got the 32X. I was surprised to find out that at that point, you couldn't buy a new Sega CD easily anymore. I had to resort to buying a used one, which worked just fine, but I wanted a new one! I think the only 32X CD game I had was Corpse Killer, and let me tell you that it freaking sucked! I ended up selling the tower of power since my parents wouldn't let me get a Playstation unless I did so. I prefer to emulate my old games now days, but I really wish I still had my tower of power! The 32X is legendary in all the wrong ways!
The 32x actually sold decently in the beginning. I agree with most of this video, but only if the Saturn's cartridge slot would have been backwards compatible with Genesis and 32x games. I also think it would have been cool to have games that used both the 32x and the Sega CD. Sega CD was amazing for music. It could have been used for music while the 32x was used for the actual game. Once you got a Sega Saturn, you could then pop the 32x game in the cartridge slot and put the Sega CD game in the CD tray to play those games. The last part with the Saturn being compatible with the Sega CD is probably a pipe dream, but a man can dream. Overall though, without the Saturn being backwards compatible, I don't think the 32x should have happened at all.
Good job on a very insightful and entertaining video. I was actually thinking about making a 32X video myself. Although I was wanted to talk about how it could be an amazing system with independent developers of today. There are still some dedicated fans who are making their own games for the Sega genesis and I would love to see the same for both add-ons.
What if.... Sega of America and Sega Japan.. got along. Their pissing matches throughout the 90's killed their potential.
This is pretty much what all the Sega "what ifs" boil down to.
Sadly it would have been an impossible thing. Sega of Japan was too jealous of Sega of America because they couldn't compete with Nintendo.
SOA also had Hubris and didnt realize what they were competing against until it was too late.
And looking back at it now, maybe if they let Yuji Naka go a little sooner. Dude was clearly toxic. Let Naoto Oshima take the reigns.
They should have worked together instead of against each other
I would have just scrapped the 32X altogether. There was no reason for it to even exist. Honestly, Sega just needed to move directly to the Saturn once they realized the Sega CD was floundering.
Cancel Bug!? No way! That game was actually pretty fun!
Even the bonestock Genesis still had a lot of gas left in the tank. Check out some of the later releases like JurassicWorld. But after seeing Soulstar and AH3 it was obvious that the Sega CD could pull off many of the top selling games for PlayStation and PC: Resident Evil, FF7, etc, or similar games.
Now imagine if SEGA had spent those tens of millions of dollars on the Nomad instead of the 32X. There would be new games and consoles sold for the Genesis-Nomad platform until 2005 at least.
You don't need Bug if Saturn launches with Sonic.
Sega should have kept the Mega Drive alive longer as it was still selling well in the west, Sega of Japan discontinued it for their own benefit because it bombed over in Japan.
@@Adamtendo_player_1 and somehow they released the 32X in Japan in 1995, after Saturn. Sega was such a mess.
@@bizarroeddie1 November 1994, the same week as the Saturn.
I think the 32X's future is with Genesis modders and homebrew game developers as Doom 32X Resurrection shows.
I’d love to see a 32X version of Sonic 3 Complete with little enhancements. Someday the community will make that happen.
Sonic 32X CD
I still want to see a great 32x only road rash. Something with sprite scaling
@@cndctrdjful I'm doing a deep dive on the Genesis DMA and graphics chip right now, and there is a lot more power in these machines than what we saw in most games of the day. Starfox DMA runs at 15-20fps bone stock--with no extra chips. Imagine what we could've gotten with a full dev team and replacing some polygons with sprites and a few tricks.
@@cndctrdjful That would be 😎, I would also want a full scaling game like a better port of Space Harrier or Afterburner.
Until UA-cam was created I wasn’t even aware I was supposed to dislike my 32x. I would never have guessed one of my favorite things from my childhood, that my friends were envious of, was so disliked and seen as a failure. The amount of time I spent watching Virtua Racing replays, kicking Dural’s ass in Virtua Fighter, flying around as Charmy Bee in Knuckle’s Chaotix and rewatching the Tempo intro is astounding. Hate all you want, but as a child I could care less about Sega’s bottom dollar. I love that big old mushroom!
And i can almost agree wholeheartedly. We played the games that came out and found something great. Stellar Assault on 32x and Star Wars Arcade were so incredible to me then and they still make me wonder if the right people made the wrong choice why do these games make me so glad they (and the 32x) were created?
I didn’t even have a computer until 1997, the 32x was the only way I could play Doom which was enough for me.
@@samfrito THEY’RE COMING IN! THREE MARKS AT 2-10!
@@mikeg2491 same here! Not many people had the money for a computer back then and definitely not my family…luckily we found the 32x at a Sun TV. It had to be dirt cheap or we never would have gotten it. Thanks Mom!
I agree to a point. I love the 32x even cosmic carnage!🤯 But looking back 32x was definitely not needed. Shadow squadron is my favorite for the 32x. It's a good game in general. I think it's better than star fox. However that game should have just came out on Saturn. (Yes I know about the Saturn sequel.)
The Genesis/Sega CD/32X should have had Sega's entire System 16, 18, 24, 32 and Model 1 arcade library ported over to it
The only reason why they couldn't do that was cause those hardware are very different from the Sega System arcade boards. It's not as easy to just code them and port them to the consoles, they had to take their time compressing and taking out features to get those running on the consoles. It's not as easy as what Atomiswave and Naomi are to Dreamcast or Sega Master System was to Game Gear cause all those were basically the same hardware and techs thus why it makes for easy porting to the console but in the case of Genesis, 32X and Sega CD, all of those are waterdown and low power compare to even the Sega System 16 arcade board so porting of those games took time and that's why not all of them was able to make the jump.
master system as well, that's 4 consoles in one.
@@VOANMega Drive was a System 16 arcade board. The games had smaller ROMs. As time went on, SEGA could've released those huge arcade ROMs (using compression) as $50 cartridges.
@@VOAN
The thing is, that once you’ve ported After Burner and Space Harrier to the 32X, porting the rest of the entire super scaler catalogue from Buck Rogers until whatever came before Rad Mobile to the 32X (pre-32bit boards) should be trivial. It’s basically the same game repeated, and they have all of the Arcade assets and source code already.
If the cartridge / distribution cost is the issue, then they needed a RAM cart to bundle with a CD 32X version for the more minor selling titles.
Sega would know which titles are less popular, based on their Arcade cabinet sales.
Sega simply misunderstood how popular and valuable their own IP was, and that there were millions of customers waiting to buy high quality versions of their existing Arcade games.
Nintendo have probably 10 games that they release over and over again, and Sega HAD 20-50 similarly popular franchises, but they simply ignored them.
Even Daytona USA could have had a 1996, 1997 & 1998 version on the Saturn - they ought to have continued releasing annual versions ala EA until the handling, performance and features were all intact.
There was no system link, and no Career / Season for Sega Rally 1995 or Daytona, so the following versions ought to have added those features, and Dreamcast in 2001 could have gotten Daytona 2 and SCUD Race within the 1st year of launch, followed by annual versions with improved features and the tracks from the previous games brought in.
By 2003, Daytona 2 could have all of the tracks from Virtua Racing Deluxe, Daytona CCE, Daytona 2001, and SCUD Race, along with online play over broadband.
That’s just ONE franchise, and they could have had probably 8 annual releases with significant technical upgrades each time. CDs are not expensive to manufacture.
32X / Mega CD ought to have been swimming in Super Scaler ports.
It’s SHOCKING that the Mega CD version of Super Monaco GP is just the damn Mega Drive version, and they BUNDLED IT WITH THE SYSTEM.
Showing everyone that there’s no benefit to even spending the money on the Mega CD. Same game. No sprite scaling on a game that was crying out for it.
Shockingly bad.
The main thing was: either skip the 32x to have all the resources on the Saturn, or put more resources on the 32x and delay the Saturn by a year.
I think you're correct but to be more specific, I'd say those extra resources should have gone into game development and publishing for the 32X. I'm have always believed that despite all the corporate disjunction behind the scenes, if Sega would have included 6 to 12 killer games within the launch window for the 32X (and continued following up with quality titles) that the ensuing disaster could have been avoided. I lived through that era as teen and there was a lot of excitement about the 32X. Bit wars and polygons were SHIZZ during those days and every kid slavered at images of the forthcoming 3D era of gaming. However, were kids and we were kids with SNES and Genesis consoles. Stuck in the 16bit era due to our lack of money, being kids and all. So the promise of the 32X was exactly what was dreamt of - living the 32bit 3D dream for $150. The future was in reach. Yes the Saturn was coming but kids want everything NOW! not in 12 months to come. Kids have fomo. But Sega didn't deliver. They fumbled game development behind the scenes trying to sort through their internal schism. The 32X got a few great titles but not enough and it freaked people out and faltered sales. I think Sega could have sold tons of 32X modules had they simply brought the games. They could have had a strong three year run and bridged the gap between over the 32bit generation. Their whole angle could have been "Look at how awesome these games are for a hundred dollar upgrade!". Then they could have dropped a 64bit system earlier than 1999 and taken that generation by storm. Instead, we got what we got and the rest is history.
Delaying the Saturn would have just made things worse for SEGA. The 32x would have no chance up against the PlayStation so it was pointless and a waste of resources, there was no saving it
@@itsmatt517that's about right
@@itsmatt517 If the 32X was a baby Saturn, developers would be more familiar with the real Saturn when it came out, and would have produced better optimized Saturn games earlier on.
@itsmatt517 Not necessarily. The Sega 32x would have been more rival akin to the SNES graphics wise because Nintendo was still releasing games on that system well into 1998 and with the Nintendo 64 already launched. With the whole obsessed, "every single game needs to be 3D" crowd, the Genesis 32x would have flourish (3D games on a cartridge) until around mid 1997 or when the Sega Saturn had bigger game bundles to rival the Sony Playstation and would have lasted until early 1999 (a price cut) before the Sega Dreamcast launched.
Saving the 32X seems like a monkey paw wish to me... personally, I'd probably scale the 32X all the way back and just make it a "lock-on" cartridge for the SVP to bring enhanced cartridge costs down. That would have allow more Genesis games to compete with the SuperFX line-up, at an (eventually) more compelling price point, potentially extending the life of the console, and even if it flopped, wouldn't generate the same bad karma that the 32X did. Don't get me wrong, I actually did enjoy Doom 32X back in the day, and Virtual Racing Deluxe was genuinely awesome, but I'd happily give all that up if it meant Sega actually surviving as a console manufacturer... or surviving a tad longer to be more realistic.
The $20 SH2 and a bit of RAM like the SVP would've still cost $50-60 and rendered 90,000 flat shaded polygons per second.
I would have bought that with
.
Svp lock on cart $49.99
.
Launch tiles
Virtua fighter $49.99
Virtua cop. $49.99
Star Wars arcade $49.99
Street fighter alpha $49.99
Alien vs predator $49.99
Doom. $49.99
Mk2 tournament ed $49.99
A svp 6-button controller $39.99
with
*Two shoulder buttons
*extra 1.5 inch,rounded handles
*2 small analog sticks like ps vita
Latter release
Daytona USA
Ultimate mk3
X-men cota
Revolution x
Virtua fighter 2
Virtua cop 2
Duke nukem
NBA hang time
NFL blitz
House of the dead
Street fighter alpha 2
Plain and simply put. Lack of communication on SEGA behalf was ultimately the demise of both the Saturn and 32x.
The demise of Sega.
Constant and repeated fails - out of touch with the gaming public.
Can't even port their own games to their own consoles - therefore their own customers can't buy their products.
They're still doing it now. They could have sold tonnes of games on the PC, for example. They have enough of a library that they could have opened their own store ala Epic or GOG, and sold peripherals from their old systems by working with a hardware partner.
Control pads, steering wheels, flight sticks... unbelievable how badly Sega have failed.
Lack of communiucation and inter departmental jealousy (the story I'd always heard is sega of japan kneecapped sega of north america because they hated that SoNA was successful.)
Had they used the sega cd to push more compilations, enhanced ports, and given developers incentives to have second/third/etc runs of games be on cd instead of cartrige would have moved units.
And that would have openedthe door for the saturn to have compatibility either directly having the hardware integratedor via a genesis on a chip that code gets sent to type situation or possibly even emulation.
I'd say it was Sega of Japan's terrible decisions and treating Sega of America like they were dumb American idiots. A good idea is a good idea, and a bad idea is a bad idea no matter where it comes from. It should have been full steam ahead, yet SoJ was way too concerned about SoA.
Man, going back to '92, there's no way I would've believed anyone that said Sega would be out of the console market in less than a decade.
@@jarlwhiterun7478 The Dreamcast was a huge redemption for them but the PS2 coming out only a year later AND being a dvd player was HUGE. Makes you wonder had Sega waited until 2000 and included a DVD player in the Dreamcast...does Microsoft even enter the console market?
It's a good idea to keep the architecture close to the Saturn for compatibility, but that's why the 32X needed two CPUs. One of the biggest issues with Saturn game performance was in utilising the dual 28MHz SH-2 CPUs effectively. Utilising more than one CPU requires multithreading the game code, which is a substantial change from single threaded code. The Playstation has only one CPU at 33MHz, so many developers ported their single threaded Playstation games to the Saturn utilising only one of the Saturn CPUs. By reducing the 32X to one CPU you'd only encourage this behaviour and leave the Saturn to suffer in performance when compared to the Playstation.
It's a tough mission to rescue the 32X, but I'd position it more as a 32-bit 2D accelerator to the Megadrive + Mega CD than a "Saturn light". Require the Mega/Sega CD, add the Saturn's VDP1 and more RAM, then use the Mega CD's sound hardware and Motorolla 68000 as the CPU. Cut the price of the Mega CD. Sell the 32X as a 3-in-1 bundle and create a Megadrive+MegaCD+32X combined hybrid at a cheaper price than buying all three individually.
The sprite scaling and colour of VDP1 would make combined with the Megadrive & Mega CD hardware would make it great for 2D games, including many of Sega's System 32 arcade games, and effectively differentiate it from the Saturn's more 3D focus. 2D games could still be ported to both consoles, with the Saturn still being more powerful in that area, but they wouldn't directly compete with each other as much as they did. It would also make Mega CD owners less aggrieved of their expensive purchase and therefore more likely to stick with Sega when the Saturn is released.
Developers also ignored the second CPU because it was just plain hard to use. Hand-coding multi-threaded assembly is difficult, and C compilers of the time were basically worthless at the task.
The Playstation was just straight-up easier to develop for, between the much simpler architecture and the day-one availability of a comprehensive C-basd development kit(while Sega initially assumed people wanted to continue on with raw assembly programming). People forget exactly how much developers liked the PS1's ease of use.
Thanks!
I said this before, a few more SVP games instead of the 32X would have helped Sega immensely. They would be presented as a treat, like Virtua Racing was: 'here, have a little taste of the future while we prepare our next generation machine.'
It's too expensive to get those SVP chip. You had to realize making one game using the SVP chip was like making a 32X by itself.
@@VOAN Yes, I know Virtua Racing cost almost twice as much as a regular game. But think of it as one of those very high end products that companies make in small amounts just to show off. It's an advertisement for the company itself: just a couple more SVP games would have presented Sega as the leader in 3D games.
How to save the 32X:
Release a more powerful Saturn later.
That's it.
The 32X was actually well-received until the Saturn launch was announced.
It was like a sampler console😅
Or just market the Saturn better in america.
Yup. Imagine if the Saturn came out in early 1996 with a reconfigured single processor, the extra RAM built in, and a fleshed out launch library of good games with full third party support. Undercut the PS1 by $20 and you got it. The Saturn killed the 32X.
That's not a bad idea... The 32X would have done a perfectly good job of keeping the Genesis in the game if it hadn't been undermined by Saturn hot on its heels... They could have given the Saturn another year or two to work out all the kinks and deliver a more well-rounded system. (And they wouldn't have gotten _wtfpwned_ at the first E3 by that legendary Sony mic drop moment.)
@@Bakamoichigei Not an option. The PlayStation problem had to be dealt with.
I'll add another bit, since both the "new" 32x and the coming Saturn would have the same main processor and VDP1, I would turn the latter compatible with the 32x software library using the cartridge slot.
The 32x’s mere existence is just so emblematic of the infighting between Sega of Japan and Sega of USA. If only the two were in lockstep and kept a unified vision. I don’t even think this imaginary 32x could have ever come out with how bad the in fighting was there. They’d probably tell Sega of USA to keep their hands off the chips rather than work with them.
A "let's save the game gear" video would be really fun
I like my 32X, but totally agree with you. I still like the fact that it is still getting some love today with Golden Axe graphic upgrade on the 32X, but it is too little too late
Save the 32X by making sure it never happened, extending the Genesis’ capabilities by incorporating the so called 32 bit enhanced chips directly into the cartridges. That way the Genesis remains viable no matter what the SNES throws at it, and Sega are free to dedicate their resources to the Saturn. No bad juju either: people are stoked for Sega’s new beast and no one feels burned. Great brand affection leads to eager early adoption, and the rest is history. No, once the 32X was out, it opened Pandora’s box, and Sega was never the same again.
You really think consumers would be happy paying $90+ for those "enhanced" games?
You remember standard 32x games were already $65-75 right?
Your idea is bad.
Virtua Racing cost $90 and that was just an SVP chip.
Plus, the 32x needed it's own power supply, which means that a standard cartridge connection wouldn't have enough power to run those chips, even if *somehow* they managed to make them small enough to fit in a cartridge.
Please think about your ideas from an actual technical standpoint instead of just assuming that you are smarter than actual engineers who may be reading your "brilliant" ideas.
This was a well thought out and great explanation of what SHOULD have happened.
@@Boogie_the_catI would think you’re correct and was in reality what happened.
Sega should have focused on the SVP chip instead of enhanced chips inside the cartridges of existing Mega Drive games.
Amen, brother. The 32X could never be a worldwide success as long as the Saturn existed and the Saturn could never be a worldwide success as long as the 32X existed.
Probably my favorite video series by you. Such a fun look back on history and some fun what-if scenarios. Always sparks good discussion. Thanks Sega Lord X.
It's wild seeing the Virtua Cop gameplay and realizing Sega reused those same crosshairs for the shooting segments in Yakuza 0 and Yakuza Kiwami. 20+ years later, that's one hell of a reference, and knowing Sega, I wouldn't be surprised if someone who worked on Virtua Cop is still there working on those games.
Whatever anyone may say about Sega, no one can deny that they are proud of their history. Moreso than probably any other video game company.
If anything it started in Yakuza 1, then 0 has it, then they just copied 0’s version onto Kiwami and made it play out like 1’s car chase. Also the Yakuza games have a ton of Virtua Fighter moves and movesets in the game.
Thank you very much this Video :) Honestly imo this is one of the best "Lets save" as you kept everything intact, didn't cut a system from release. Letting the Sega Saturn mature and release later in NA and EU; to keeping the cartridge system alive in the US as the SNES was still chugging along fine until 96.
32X should have been a stand-alone console that used cartridges only, was backward compatible with Genesis, and had a portable version.
It'll still failed cause the Sega Saturn already exist. That will only confused third party even more cause now Sega had three consoles to worry about: the Saturn, the 32X, and the portable that should never had existed especially since the Game Gear and Nomad are still in the market.
There was a plan for the Neptune console which was basically the stand alone 32X that would still be compatible with the Genesis and it was supposed to come in under $200. But like others say, it's all about the Saturn release.
Instead of Neptune and 32X, SEGA could've released the lightweight 1993 version of the Saturn with only one CPU, 1MB of RAM, no DSP, and only VDP2. Most Saturn games in Japan only used the other chips, anyway. The extra RAM and processors could've been made avaliable an optional addon.
The lightweight machine could be sold at a loss for $199 and still play 80-90% of Saturn games.
@@francescosmith7859 Parecem que vão dar vida a ele aqui em Brasil .
I reckon they would have sold alot more if they just made the 32x and not the saturn at all.they had the customer base already with the genesis.
I need a time machine to go back to 1994 and show this video to sega.
The only way for the 32x to have succeeded is if Sega never made the Saturn to begin with. Then Sega would have to go all in on the Neptune making a upgraded system that's compatible with all the old genesis games. This might have worked as it would have been the only new system at the time that was backwards compatible.
Great video, now you just need to send this video back in time to Sega!
I loved the 32x...seeing star wars arcade on release day made it a day 1 purchase. With unlimited resources for teams to pump out quality software it would have been even better
I was also keen on 32X bought it with Star Wars. Virtua racing was awesome too. Compared to my friend’s 3DO it was a bit lacking. It was just a lot cheaper if you already had a mega drive/genesis.
13:53 : “while these games entertain Saturn owners in Japan…. “
In this scenario the problem won’t be the Saturn owners in Japan ,but the *PlayStation owners in U.S* !!
Also in this scenario you describe ,you make a fundamental mistake :
*Saturn will become instantly obsolete in U.S. since NO U.S. SEGA customer will pay for 2 different consoles with so similar hardware(except the CD-rom) within 1-2 years difference so* ….
Since the U.S. customers will have to chose between a (enhanced)32X and a PlayStation , *they will inevitably start comparing the games* between the (enhanced)32X and the PlayStation !!
This will bring us to the point I had asked you in the past :
do you honestly believe that an(enhanced but still without CD-rom)32X MegaDrive add-on can match the level of quality that the PlayStation games had ? the fact that the U.S. customers won’t have access to the Saturn will make the games- comparison even worse for SEGA.
They will have to find a way for this(enhanced but without CD-rom) 32X to compete with early PlayStation masterpieces games such as :
*Tekken ,wipeout ,Resident Evil ,Ridge Racer ,Air Combat ,DieHard Trilogy* ,and later with even greater masterpieces such as :
*Metal Gear Solid ,FinalFantasy VII ,Gran Turismo ,Colin McRae Rally ,F1 ’97 ,Disruptor ,Dino Crisis ,Tomb Raider ,Silent Hill* ,and God knows how many more.
If SEGA had initially kept SATURN only for the Japanese customers and promote the 32X for the U.S. customers , when the time would come for the inevitable game-comparison the (enhanced but without CD-rom) 32X would get … *slaughtered* and its once proud(like myself) MegaDrive customers totally embarrassed…
Focusing heart&soul to the SATURN(*and better price and launch games) was SEGA’s only chance in the 32-bit war …(as you said in your conclusion )
I don't know. Every Yen and every Dollar invested in the 32X was missing on the Saturn side of things. And for what, so that Sega could counter the Atari Jaguar of all things? I like your approach here, but I think if Sega scrapped the 32X and released the Saturn as planned and not earlier, putting that money saved into Saturn games, that would have served them better. I mean the 32X was started on in early 1994 and released later that same year - holy crap, when would anyone put out all the games for that? It's a damn miracle they managed to even do this. So that's why I say scrap it. And I say that as a 32X owner, actually liking the beast (not as much as my Jaguar, but stil). Well, basically what you summed up at the end.Anyway, entertaining thoughts, great video. Cheers!
In hindsight, 20 million, Genesis owners ended up switching right over to the PlayStation or PC. The Saturn was a $400 mess of chips and PS2 style memory moves by the SCU DSP. So many SEGA developers and gamers simply became SONY developers and gamers. So the only chance of keeping many of those Genesis fans was to redevelop those franchises for the Sega CD or 32X.
What a bangin' ass video. Well done, brother. Like others, my hope is that the modding/romhacking community will breathe new life into the 32X and develop some truly impressive games for it.
I always wondered what could have been done with CD32x games if given a dev team with the time, talent, passion and money. All we got was upgraded FMV trash, but when u combine the potential of the entire tower of power, feel like amazing things could have been achieved
Getting all those parts singing together would have taken programming skill 99% of the industry didn't have or couldn't afford.
the 32X would have needed its own RAM or an external RAM cart in order to make any real use of the CD storage.
It can't access the Mega CD's RAM very efficiently.
An expensive game that runs from a cart and a CD, where the cart contains both RAM & ROM, could work, but that would have cost a fortune back in 1995.
Possibly a plug-through cart like Sonic & Knuckles, but only containing 1MB RAM (or more), then the games' ROM cart can sit on top. Plus a CD - it would be wild, but it could be done.
@@TechRyze Ye, its pretty unlikely even if folks tried back in the day....but a man can dream xD
Heck, even having cartridge games that came with an soundtrack cd woulda been neat, and was possible back then but no devs did it as far as I know. Only game I know of that used that feature was Pier Solar.
Apparently Sega also had plans for an SVP chip add-on Allegedly (I have no citation for this) the plan was to sell the SVP chip as a pass through cartridge add on packaged with virtual racing for around $100 then sell SVP chip games that would make use of it without the price of manufacturing the chip for each one.
@@SegaLordXBut nowadays, there's probably some Einstein of all 3 systems that could probably do it with enough time and resources.
I really hope that some involved programmers will restore or create almost all the 2D arcade games from SEGA on 32x.
Turbo Outrun/classic Outrun, Outrunners are doable, i don't think so about Golden Axe Revenge of Death Adder. There's also tons of non-sega arcade game i believe could be ported to the 32X. It's preferable to stick on 2D games as 32X performs it super well, but "save the Saturn" is a bit utopic... it's the hardest console to program never conceived (PS2 second place)
The 32X just needed games, more quantity and quality, a console is defined by it's "must haves" from which the 32X has zero.
I thought shadow squadron was a must have😂
The 32X had Virtua Fighter and Virtua Racing that are amazing games. Knuckle Chaotix too. Kolibri, and Spiderman the Web of Fire are also good games.
I don’t think the 32X has about 5 games that are worth playing, Virtua Fighter, Virtua Racing Deluxe, Knuckles Chaotix, Doom terrace that 4 games lol.
I love it when you do these type of videos. The Saturn one was really good and you were fair about dropping things to focus where the same time and money should’ve been spent instead.
Sega should gave launched the 32x with Powerdrift, Outrun, Thunderblade, Golden Axe RODA, SF 2 Hyperfighting, or Alpha right out of the gate with an enhanced Sonic CD
Add Vitrua Cop, Virtual ON and Daytona with the ability to daisy chain up to 8 systems and TV's together for multiplayer! It should have been sold at a higher premium price as an Arcade at home system and came with an arcade stick, steering wheel and light gun.
I love your "Let's Save" videos. It makes me happy to see all these Sega consoles receiving some love again! I truly believe that the Sega Saturn and Dreamcast could have been successful had they moved development fully to those consoles and all the games that ended up on 32X and CD just were developed for the Saturn and Dreamcast instead. So much time and and money could have been saved and they would have survived the Playstation onslaught that was heading for them.
If they'd have done the Sega CD right (similar to how you talked it up in your video about saving it), there wouldn't have ever been any need at all for the 32X. The transition to a proper 32-bit CD-ROM platform would've then been much smoother for Sega.
Fwiw, 8MB cartridges in 1994 could've easily reached $200 at retail (not unlike the cost of Neo Geo carts of the era), so I'm not entirely sure they would've helped in keeping costs down, tbh...
I think the Sega CD was a good experiment that by the time the market told them fmv games sucked, the hardware was already out. But I agree, they could have moved away from fmv games and just made really great 16 but games with fmv elements and then let Saturn be THE 32 bit Sega offering when it was ready.
I agree, they should have pushed the Sega CD more and forget about anything else until the Saturn. An official Sega CD + Cartridge combo console would have been better than the 32X.
I love the 32x, the idea of supercharging your Genesis is just awesome
The 32X wouldn't have been a thought if they had made the Sega CD better. If the Sega CD could handle more color, it would have been allowed much bigger upgrades to Genesis games by itself.
The SEGA Genesis VDP could draw 256 out of 3,375 colors in Shadow Highlight Mode and do 320x448i. We rarely saw either and never saw them both put together.
Just by moving the premiere of the Saturn to July 1995 and instead of it being a peripheric, it should be a console sold with the Sega CD
The 32X should've used the Motorola 68EC020 chip-it's the natural successor to the Mega Drive's 68K, easy to program, cheaper, and powerful enough to develop games that the 16-bit generation (or SNES chips) could never have imagined.
Very good point.
The Amiga 1200 and the CD32, which launched in '92 and '93, both had the 68EC020 CPU. It was a fairly powerful chip, but as someone who had the Amiga 1200 back in the day, I'd say the 32X has superior 3D graphics performance.
@@Marcus_K it’s beyond comparison. I mean even if it’s a mess I mean it’s a dedicated GPU to draw polygons while the Amiga could draw lines and fill but has no concept of polygons as an hardware object. It’s a CISC vs RISC and real cache compared to the not one but two SH2 so yeah the 32x is in every way much much more powerful than an A1200
Just to put it in perspective a CISC from 84 vs a RISC from 93 or if it was 94. Just that should end any debate :)
@Marcus_K @litjellyfish
Thanks for the comments. I know the CD32 and Amiga 1200 used that chip, but my knowledge of this platform comes from UA-cam videos. What I find intriguing about the 68EC020 is that it was a viable chip for the consumer market as early as 1993, just a year after the Sega CD's launch in the US. If Sega had developed an add-on with this chip instead of the Sega CD, we might have seen some amazing games, like many of the examples Sega Lord X mentioned in his video. Especially if games released for the Mega Drive from 1993 onwards were designed for this hardware, the game library would have been very compelling.
@@ventura3600 sorry you lost me a bit now. Are we mxing the SH2 with the 68 series how? The 86EC020 at 92, 93 was exactly a bit dated and weak considered PC etc.
Also the 68020 itself with no new GPU would have done little for the Megadrive. Basically it would allow for better game logic which neger really was a true bottleneck for MD. It could have aided with compression. So graphics could have been decompressed only the fly to vram resulting in more verity in platform games etc.
But just a 68020 added to the Megadrive would not allow 3D games really. As said even today with the smartest coders it would be able to run a good Wolfenstein type of game maybe 20fps
Or did I miss understand you? Asking so I am not totally off with what I tell :)
This is an excellent summary of the 32X. I can tell you did your homework. Thank you for sharing!
The 32X not getting a port of Out Run us a disgrace especially when you consider how good the other super scaler ports were on the system
Outrunners would have been a great game to have on the Saturn alongside the rest of the Sega Ages arcade titles, too bad it only got a lackluster genesis port
@@Whateverfloatsurboat2 Yeah but to be fair the hardware was not really capable of completely replicating the arcade game accurately
I completely agree. I was irritated that there was no outrun.
Of topic sort of but maybe Sega Lord X should do a let’s save the Mega Drive, yeah i know what you’re thinking, wasn’t the Mega Drive a success in the west? Yes it was but there’s things could and should have happened that i would have changed with the Mega Drive, especially in Japan.
I've been waiting for this video. I love this series. I loved my 32x. I also agree with you 100% on what should have been changed and also that it never should have been made. As always, thanks for the great videos
It can't be saved since it was a stopgap measure for the Genesis until the Saturn came out
Exactly! Just scrap it entirely and maybe the Saturn could actually stand a chance...but there's got to be a Sonic 4 on launch day...with no 32X just turn Knuckles Chaotix into a mainline Sonic title and make it available on launch day.
It was the changing, confusing road map that drove off developers retailers and gamers. It was so obvious back in those days and yet I see so few people now acknowledge that fact.
@MaxAbramson3 it was basically a poor man's next gen system that assumed you already had a Genesis otherwise it wouldn't work, and required its own power supply...it was a horrible concept that was dead on arrival, and killed the Saturn before it could arrive.
@@PaperBanjo64 Now that I think of it, SoA's nVidia based console (got all of two months of development for it) was more powerful than PS1, Saturn, or N64. Consider this: build that nVidia based console but use the two SH2s for the CPU/GTE to generate the 180,000 polygons per second, letting nVidia's NV1 perform the rendering. When Saturn fails, SoA and SoE would have the Sega CD + 2-SH2 + nVidia NV1 platform with over 1200 Genesis and Sega CD games already, plus a few dozen more for their nVidia CD console.
The Saturn’s failure outside Japan was entirely Sega of Japan’s making, and little to nothing to do with the 32X.
3:48 my personal what if scenerio for the Xbox 360. The 360 should've cooked in the oven long enough to have Halo 3 as a launch title and 2005 and 6 did nothing for Microsoft considering the red ring of death. That Elite version should've came out the status quo, waiting for the 2010 S version to perfect it.
I would love to see you do this series beyond just Sega consoles…A let’s save for the Atari Jaguar or Wii U would be very interesting
The Jaguar sounds interesting 🤔. The N64 did well in the west, what happened to Atari?
No one could have saved the Jaguar. It was made by idiots.
@@roldanrosario8292 gamecube and n64 DD will be suited more than the n64.
@@penguinreloaded7756 With some support yes. Consoles in general designed their software based on the strengths of the hardware. In Mario 64 we kept entering the same stage to do different tasks because of the limitations of the cartage space. But it worked.
But to your credit, if developers were staying away from the Jaguar it was for a reason. Sega Lord X would likely address this issue early on if he ever decides to make a that video.
@@maroon9273 idk, the issue with the GameCube wasn’t hardware itself, what hurt them primarily was 9-11, and using the discs they used, which turned off the big 3rd party developers and pushed them towards the PS2, because the GameCube was just as, if not more powerful than the PS2
This was a brilliant and thoughtful take on the 32X.
Thanks Lord X. Watching from the UK.
me too
@@Poobell1me three
Me four
Genesis has been receiving a lot of love from independent developers lately. Hopefully someone releases a 32x game that brings back some interest to it.
Thank you very much for the SEGA memory lane 😊😊😊
Also, an all-in-one mega drive and 32X 'Neptune' console was probably required to entice new people to buy the format, or at least some kind of 32X and Mega Drive bundle.
Here's what I would've done. Put all development into the Saturn and launch it at the normal time instead of early in the west.
If you're going to launch the 32X at all, why not put more development into the Nomad and see if you can't shrink down the 32X components into that portable factor in a few years time and have it compete with the GBA? Release this new console as the Sega Nomad 32X.
That way you have a portable Sega console that already has a great back catalog and can have it's own upgraded new games. And it doesn't matter if it's not as powerful because it's portable and is it's own development rather than competing as another home console option.
Give it some link up functionality with the Dreamcast like the Neo Geo Pocket Color had originally, and I think that's a viable way to make the 32X sell decently if you can get the battery life to be decent. Hell it might even give hardware developers enough time to make the 32X a real power house of a portable system instead of a flop of a budget console if it comes out around the same time as the Dreamcast or even a couple years later in 2001 to go head to head with the GBA.
It's a strange idea for sure and I'm not even sure if that would work but I'd love to see an alternate reality where that happens and see how the Nomad 32X does against the GBA in 2001. :D
This guy reads our minds with his content...Excellent
Noooooo. Skip the 32x and go straight to the Saturn. Thanks for posting great videos though 🙂
But that’s not the idea behind this video 😅
Or vice versa. I never saw any Saturn games that couldn't run on the 32X CD.
Or maybe keep the Mega Drive alive by using enhancement chips like Nintendo did and make a cheaper version of the SVP.
@@Adamtendo_player_1 @Adamtendo_player_1 Yeah, the SH2 was only $20 at that point, but so was the MIPS 4300vr and PA-RISC 7100. On the other hand, the DMA and VDP have shown that they can pull off 3D polygons with no additional hardware. The Sega CD was the only addon needed, in any case.
@@MaxAbramson3 Games like Panzer Dragoon Saga actually can't be run on the 32X Sega CD. That game required a ram cart and had 3 disc. Sega CD had no 3D polygonal capability and 32X had no ram support (one reason why there's no RPG released for it), even if you combine them, both lacked analog control which can't be done unless you own a Saturn.
It is really hard to make new videos, let alone a new topic. You always have a great video to watch. I love playing my Saturn more than my Dreamcast. Now that have the Fenrir DUO, I have been playing all kinds of awesome games. Take care, Happy Gaming from Joe's Retro World
Let's save it: Sega does not release the Sega CD, Sega announces the 32X which expands Sega Genesis with CD and 32-bit, a proper release of the Sonic 32X included with the machine.
Or how about the original SH1 Saturn project which had one half the chips and would have been easier to develop for. It would've been in stores by Christmas of 1993 for $300.
Not releasing the Sega CD means Sega falls behind the PC Engine CD by several years. This also means that Snatcher won't be coming to the Sega CD and instead will be a PC Engine CD exclusive. This also goes for games like Lunar, Vay, Popful Mail, and Eternal Blue. Since Sega CD doesn't exist, those games found a home on the PC Engine CD.
I've been waiting for this video! I love the previous ones and always thought the 32x had some massive untapped potential
Yes! I was waiting for this!
32x has Sprite Rotation (which the MegaCD has), Sprite Scaling, PWM audio, 317 combined Genesis+32x colors less you wanna use 15 bit direct palette mode for uh... Still frames or menus with lower vertical resolution, and polygons. Godot's 2D mode supports all but polygons basically leaving everything to sprites. I can see Godot 3 and 4 being a great platforms for making psuedo 32x games. I would love to be a part of a Halo 32x project if I could.
The 32X has no sprite rotation or scaling in hardware.
@@SegaLordX Oh... Uh, that kinda screws up my imaginary Yanme'e death animation a little bit.
Save Sega by not listening to Sega US, cancelling the 32x and making sure those extra Hitachi chips made it into the much needed saturn hardware (there was a Saturn console shortage at launch). Redirect all development resources from the 32x software to the Saturn for launch and you may have had a much better time - just to name a couple things.
SoA wanted Sega CD + SVP. SoJ called them at the January 1994 CES and told them to bring out a new console or addon.
It's all about the games man
Was the 32X bad? Yes. Was it the worst idea by a major gaming company? No...that distinction goes to the Virtuaboy.
Virtual boy is underrated, its the only console that can give me a epileptic fit.
I loved the 32x my buddy had. We played it all the time and it had this underdog charm. It only had a few good games, but it still let you use the Genesis and stay connected to that beautiful generation
While that's good not all Genesis games will work on the 32X. In some cases you will had to remove the 32X to play your full library of Sega Genesis games.
Forget Tom Kalinske. We needed Sega Lord X! Why couldn't any Sega executives think of half of this stuff? Really fun series SL and looking forward to the saving Sega video.
and on a serious side note, how could Tom Kalinske be so smart and realize things like packaging Sonic and lowering the console price would work and not do the same things for Sega CD or 32X? Oh well.
The only games we played on the Genesis were Streets of Rage 2 and Golden Axe. So besides a power socket splitter, or power brick with 2 power cables, it most of all would benefit from those franchises. With Revenge of Death Adder already made, making it a built into the unit game (just like Hang On and Safari Hunt on the SMS) would be great.
I wish that Streets of Rage 3, Sonic & Knuckles, Vectorman, Comix Zone & Shinobi III were all 32X exclusives.
@@TechRyze I'm glad they aren't 32X exclusives, that way we save money. Games seem to get worst when they got ported to 32X for some reasons: WWF WrestleMania Arcade, Mortal Kombat II, Primal Rage, Brutal, NBA Jam Tournament Edition, WWF Raw, and Pitfall all plays terrible on 32X compare to their Genesis versions. They only look good but their gameplay seems to take a toll. The only three that benefits are After Burner Complete, Virtua Racing Deluxe, and Space Harrier.
@@TechRyze You would want all genesis players to miss out on those games? That just sounds mean.
You missed out on a lot of great games by limiting yourself to just SOR2 and Golden Axe.
No saving it. Move most projects to the Saturn launch.
Yeah, turn Knuckles Chaotix into Sonic 4 and release it as a launch title. Not having a mainline Sonic on the Saturn hurt it, badly.
Basically a Saturn Jr. I think either scrap the 32x altogether or it should be released earlier, bundled with Sega CD into something unique, not two separated peripherals.
I love the 32X mostly because it's an underdog and most people seem to just write it off. I'm so glad I got one 10 years ago when it was a lot cheaper and the games were massively cheaper! Insane how much a copy of Metal Head is now. I just wish it had gotten an Out Run Port would have been perfect on this system. Only Missing 2 games for a complete PAL set. Love playing it to this day.
Which games are you missing? Might get a Out Run port one day if we got Golden axe. But I would much prefer seeing a Daytona port.
@@John-nb6epthat Golden axe port was pointless.
@@hpickettz34 Yeah.
Ooh… has Metal Head appreciated in value? Still got my boxed copy.
@@John-nb6ep A Daytona port would be really cool. Darxide and Zaxxons Motherbase are the last two for a complete PAL set. Although having played both on my Everdrive, I think I can live without them😀
The sheer number of changes you had to make here to make the 32X (and by extension, Saturn) work here shows how bad an idea it really was. It is such a wild fact that Sega went for the 32X at all.
Imagine proper SNK ports!
You are not getting proper SNK ports with 4 MB cartridges
@@PAKA62 Indeed. But 32Mb is better than the 8/12/16Mb ports that Genesis got.
6:48 NUH-UHHHHH. No, the 32X sound was a joke. SNES pumping out symphonic heart-moving pieces while 32X shat out 80s synth was not OK in the mid-90s. You've really gone too far as a fanboy to not see sound on the 32X as a problem.
And you need more 32X experience, because you obviously haven't played many. Go listen to Star Wars Arcade and then talk to me about 32X sound.
@@SegaLordX Thanks for the reply! But it Still doesn't sound like a next-gen system even in its own time.
The extra sound channels on the 32X would have upgraded the Genesis sound enough to give you movie level compositions with Q-Sound capability. I think it would have been enough. It wasn't CD quality but it also wasn't CD pricing.
@@SegaLordX32x Tempo is great in sound too!
Scrapping Wild Woody? You did the world a favor for that. Thanks!
This entire episode was made just so I could do it. Mission accomplished!
@@SegaLordXAn SH2 version of the SVP LockOn would still cost $49.95, be capable of 90,000 flat shaded polygons per second, and still ne out by Spring with already developed Daytona USA, Star Wars Arcade, Virtua Racing, and Virtua Fighter. 20 months to bring out Sega CD+SVP games had SEGA stuck with their regular launch schedule.
He'll, SoJ should've let SoA bring out their nVidia console in 1995 instead.
The reality of the 32X was to make Sega of America look like dook. The fact is, Sega had failed in Japan and Sega of America was doing pretty well, at that point in software releases in a region that had accepted the Genesis. Third party had rallied to the machine to sell sports titles. Eternal Champions had actually sold well. Sega of Japan, in essence was jealous and wanted to curb stomp SOA. Not only did they give them the impossible tasking of creating a stop gap system, but they also released the Saturn early. They had a loyal, American market and betrayed consumer confidence. Never to regain it. I think if they cared, the 32X would have been something. Sadly it wasn't ever to be anything and wasn't supported as it should have been.
I genuinely believed Sega should have doubled down on Sega CD instead. It had a great library and they could have sold classic games on CD media for $20. I also believe CDs being cheap is why it had pretty great 3rd party support compared to some other platforms.
Also, 32X's notable content should have just been on Genesis, Sega CD or Saturn.
Just a thought, but Sega made a fairly impressive port of Virtua Racing on Genesis with the SVP chip. They probably could have used that or something better to put Doom, Star Wars and Virtua Fighter on Genesis.
One thing I’d have added was a bonus for those who had a Sega CD. Also sell audio CDs that can be played on the Sega CD and partnered with a 32X cartridge giving you CD audio
Honestly I want one. Love anything SEGA. Much respect SLX.
The Saturn's cartridge slot should have been used for backwards compatibility with the Genesis/MegaDrive games, along with having support for the 32X cartridges.
EDIT: After watching the video...
• Cancel all 32X CD games. Convert those over to the Saturn platform.
• Develop a 32X/Saturn all-in-one system setup similar to the WonderMega/JVC X-EYE (that way you could still use a Expansion Cart for save states and/or extended RAM.
• Bring more games over from Japan!
Yeah, cancel all those 32x CD games! All 4 of them 😂
Save it for what? The Sega CD and 32X should never have been produced. These only crippled the Saturn's launch. Sega had no focus and Sony came in and took almost every older edgy Sega kid from them. Sega was finished at this point. The Dreamcast was a hail mary and the PS2 finished the job. They were barely hanging in there with Nintendo as it was and then they panic because the 3DO and the CDi got to market with a CD-based system and so they bring out a shitty add-on? Stupid, stupid company. They are the WCW of the video game world.
I was born in 1994 and Sega are idiots. Because of them, I'm a Playstation fan, PS1 happened. Rest is history for Sony. Sega had no business releasing Sega CD and 32X.
They forgot to market themselves after Genesis and got too comfortable. Then Saturn comes out a year later in 1995 and software wasn't the same from 32 X in 1994 even though both were 32 bit. Terrible timing for an add on and awful marketing with no games.
32X should have been a console and not an add on. Sega got too comfortable with Genesis. This and Sega CD killed their company and then Saturn fell apart because games were hard to program on there compared to Playstation 1 and N64. They fell apart ever since even with Dreamcast good.
The Genesis / MD was the market leader and outsold Nintendo's consoles for years in the West in the early '90s. They did a great job until that point and managed to break Nintendo's stranglehold on the console market. The Playstation benefited from all of that, as by the mid-90's third-party developers were more interested in leaving Nintendo's ecosystem. The problem with the Saturn was 90% the Saturn itself, maybe 10% the 32X and 0% the Sega CD.
There was so much potential for the 32x, I remember buying mine back when it came out and just being in awe. Yes I was trying to upgrade on a budget since I already had the genesis and Sega cd. If they had put some of the great arcade ports I think it would’ve been a good system.
When my time machine is complete, the first thing that I will do is send SEGA LORD X in the 90’s to save SEGA.
No other event in human history commands as much attention!
@@SegaLordX lol 😆
@@SegaLordX Save the Saturn, save the world.
Speaking of the Jaguar, how would u save the Jaguar?
Sega CD+SVP was the plan promoted by SoA and the Kalinske Team. Al Nilsen, Roger Hector, and others have said this in interviews. But did you know that SoA had worked with nVidia in 1995 to create a working 3D game console that Sonic eXtreme had been developed for? It was cheaper and MUCH more powerful and would've mopped the floor with competitors. As usual, SoJ killed that and demanded the May $400 launch... with almost no games!
Having said that, without the pending Saturn, the 32X CD would've been fine. 40,000 textured polygons would've been enough for mid 90s.
Nvidia saturn would've been much better than the saturn released. Cleaner designed and much easier to program. Spiritual successor to the 3do.
@@maroon9273 No, it was a completely new CPU/GPU using some RISC chip and nVidia NV1, I believe. I can't find info on the CD vs. cartridge issue, but it would've destroyed everything else for 3D. SoJ cancelled it.
@@maroon9273 As the 3do had more RAM out of the box there is an argument it was superior to both Saturn and PS1
@@Tolbat No, the 3DO only had the same 2MB of RAM and 1MB of VRAM as the Saturn and PS1. All had 512KB of audio RAM, IIRC, though the Saturn had the best sound. The 3DO apparently had the more powerful graphics pipeline, but the Saturn had the most powerful CPU package, at about 150 MIPS.
Sega of Japan was very stupid, however Nvidia wasn't really the name they are now. It's funny cause the NV1 released for PC had a Sega Saturn joystick port. If that happened It would probably have actually competed with the Playstation (and won ?)
I love the let's save videos. Great episode as always.
32x doom was one of the best early console ports, a shell of the PC version but I had a blast with it.
Jaguar version was far superior
Check out Doom 32X Resurrection if you have not already. It's everything we could ask for from a 32X Doom port.
@@mikejohnson699With no music in the background of DOOM for Atari Jaguar It's one big bold claim you're making.
@@demonology2629 the music was readded years ago via mod - was rushed, there is a Jaguar project that beats 32X Resurrection already also.
@Tolbat I haven't seen this yet, And it sounds like you need a flash cart for that. That plays ATARI JAGUAR CD music.
Sure , they can't make a single cartridge that can do this for Doom on Atari, like they did 32X Doom Resurrection.
Hey SLX,
I love the idea of using the VDP1 from the Saturn in your 32x alternative. The Mega Drive doing the backgrounds could make the 32x games look good, I mean it already did for the real 32x. The Mega Drive sprites could have been used as part of the background allowing for up to 61 colours and add a bit of life to them too.
Your solution being more compatible with the Saturn would also allow the Saturn version of the games to shine, its version of the games using the VDP2 could have more colours and use 3D in them too, allowing for a greater contrast in the games.
Something to note though, the VDP1 used 2x256kb RAM for its framebuffers, that costs a lot, so you'd go with a more reasonable 2x128kb RAM for 32x. Since you only have 1 SH-2 CPU, you could have system RAM to 128kb leaving the same total RAM. Problem is, the VDP performance would tie in with the RAM, but even if the VDP1 performance was halved, it would be still more powerful than the 32x VDP and it would still be more compatible with Saturn games.
Texture Gouraud shading performance:
32x VDP: 20,000 polygons/sec
Saturn VDP: 140,000 polygons/sec
Halved Saturn VDP: 70,000 polygons/sec
So a 3D game on your 32x, think Virtua Fighter, could run at 30fps with Mega Drive doing the backgrounds and the Saturn version at 60fps could have VDP2 doing the backgrounds.
I agree with your end statement that the 32x shouldn't have happened as there are more problems than you mentioned, you also have ROM costs to consider. 32x Doom was 3MB a ROM while the Doom Resurrection 2.2 mod increases it to 4MB. Larger ROMs massively increase costs and anything over 4MB requires bank switching and increases the costs again. One of the Mega Drive Jurassic Park games used 2MB by itself, adding more games and increasing asset quality would smash the costs to crazy levels. That cannot be part of the plan.
Games like Virtua Fighter, Star Fox, Virtua Racing don't use a lot of textures on their 3D models, as such their ROM sizes are relatively small. You would have to think that way to keep ROM costs down.
But, going along with the fun the 32x alternative you could have had the best of 3DO and Jaguar games ported to it, along with more Sega arcade home ports, and some future Saturn games. Since Doom doesn't use the VDP chips on the Saturn, it would still be CPU based on your 32x and it won't be as good as the Doom Resurrection mod as that uses both SH-2 chips while the original only used one. I wonder if the Mega Drive hardware could have been used to help, perhaps processing user input, whether enemies can hear you, and the HUD?
Save the PlayStation Portable
Turn it into a portable emulation device before the steam deck exists.👍🏻
And the vita
Nah, Save the 3DS or Wii U, PSP isn’t worth saving 😂😂
I love the let's save video series!!!!!
Let it never need saving !
Had Sega decided to make the SVP into an adaptor card, I wonder if we'd have ended up with the 32X at all?
AGree with most of what is here and had similar thoughts. However I'd keep Sega CD support on some level. If only to pay off those who had sega cd already. I mean basically with game music. That would have solved the Road Rash 32X problem, by allowing the game to stream the music from the drive and layer it with the games effects. Throw the disc in the box with the game for free, and you're good to go, let the game detect the drive and alert the player to insert the disc if they desired the upgrade or skip it.
I think the saturn (given the extra year) would have been architected better and likely stood better against the playstation and n64 had they done so. Would even have allowed for Genesis and 32X backward compatibility, helping to justify its cost and allowing the parallel markets to exist. Turning the 32x into a stair stepping option and again utilizing a packed in disc to enhance the game if they moved to Saturn Hardware. A Sega Neptune could then become a cheap viable replacement for the Genesis and allow the 32x to live till maybe 97, before Saturn prices finally got low enough that the entire consumer market was ready to move over. Though I think all of this would prevent Sega from making a clean break with the saturn, though Sega would have needed less of a hail mary with the dreamcast at the time to make that too large of a problem.
I still want one.
Same
I have two, and want one or two more
I see two options. One was to upgrade the Sega CD and make it a bit more powerful and also sell it as a standalone product. Then delay the Saturn for a year or two. The second was to just scrap it all together.
I like your ideas, in that I'd just up the write speed for about 3x so it could run 2d games ate 60fps
I love the Sega 32x!
IMO they should of never done the 32x. Instead they should have made a solid five games with the svp chip that was used for vitrua racing. The technology was there and they could of made svp virtual fighter, Star Wars arcade, a 3D adventure game, 3D puzzle game along with virtua racing
the original design called for twin Motorola processors one was for parsing the genesis output and one was for routing information to it. basically it would have given them the ability to multiply genesis specs instead of adding to them. which is to say genesis gets 64 colors routing and parsing means 32X gets 64x4. because of that architecture development would be entirely portable. meaning that porting all sega arcade games would be effortless. one reason they cited changing it was because model one games were excluded from the model and it had a completely different library for polygon based graphics. meaning a virtual fighter or racer would have to be designed for this architecture from the ground up.
This got me thinking, seeing how Mega Drive never did well in Japan:
What changes would you make for Mega Drive in Japan and what impacts would it make overseas? Be it R&D, marketing, and library.
Personally, I would put my best foot forward for a strong line up by launch of arcade ports: Fantasy Zone, Shinobi, and Alien Syndrome, among others. Also, I would reject licensing our games to the likes of Asmik and Tengen since we're competing against Nintendo and NEC.
Additionally, I would decline the Osomatsu-kun license and instead approach Tezuka Productions for an Astro Boy game (think Mega Man meets Space Harrier).
Addendum: After thinking about the SVP, I want to propose a special compression chip named Sega Compression Processor (SCP). This would allow us to gain more milage with the ROM sizes and even keep production costs down when needed.
Although I felt conned by Sega with the 32X, it did introduce me to my favourite game of all time, DooM. In my eyes, the most influential game of all time. It wasn't the first FPS, but it popularised the genre to the point that it changed the gaming landscape forever. I won't own a machine that doesn't have the originals available. With the recent releases of Quake and the sequel, my all time favourites are mine. ( A Musha and Thunderforxe 4 release would be a sweet bonus)
I think the best route would have been to use a double-speed disc drive and a console form factor similar to the Saturn, Sega CD, and the 32x couldve been a much simpler device to use and implement as an upgrade in the cart slot
How to save the 32X?.....pretend it never existed! *BOOM*
Awesome vid once again man! I had the 32X back in the day. I was young, and was just excited for new stuff! I lived at home and had a job, so why not? While I thought it was cool, there just wasn't enough support for it, and ended up playing Genesis games again after getting it.
I even got a Sega CD after i got the 32X. I was surprised to find out that at that point, you couldn't buy a new Sega CD easily anymore. I had to resort to buying a used one, which worked just fine, but I wanted a new one! I think the only 32X CD game I had was Corpse Killer, and let me tell you that it freaking sucked!
I ended up selling the tower of power since my parents wouldn't let me get a Playstation unless I did so. I prefer to emulate my old games now days, but I really wish I still had my tower of power! The 32X is legendary in all the wrong ways!
The 32x actually sold decently in the beginning. I agree with most of this video, but only if the Saturn's cartridge slot would have been backwards compatible with Genesis and 32x games. I also think it would have been cool to have games that used both the 32x and the Sega CD. Sega CD was amazing for music. It could have been used for music while the 32x was used for the actual game. Once you got a Sega Saturn, you could then pop the 32x game in the cartridge slot and put the Sega CD game in the CD tray to play those games. The last part with the Saturn being compatible with the Sega CD is probably a pipe dream, but a man can dream. Overall though, without the Saturn being backwards compatible, I don't think the 32x should have happened at all.
Good job on a very insightful and entertaining video. I was actually thinking about making a 32X video myself. Although I was wanted to talk about how it could be an amazing system with independent developers of today. There are still some dedicated fans who are making their own games for the Sega genesis and I would love to see the same for both add-ons.