If Planets Were Donuts
Вставка
- Опубліковано 1 чер 2015
- What if planets were not (nearly) spherical but rather torus/donut shaped? Topics discussed: types of tori, stability of torus planets, gravity vs centrifugal force, curvature, tidal forces, seasons and day/night cycles, climate, hurricanes, coriolis forces, tectonics, internal heating, moons, and the four color theorem.
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ARTIFEXIAN ON THE INTERWEB:
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► Blog: www.scifiideas.com
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CREDIT:
► Anders Sandberg: goo.gl/hc8pys
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LINKS:
►Torus on Wikipedia: goo.gl/QbdSKA
►Topography of a Twisted Torus: goo.gl/zlAe3q
►Embedding a Torus: goo.gl/dBxHSy
►Torus-Earth: goo.gl/99xZXK
►Torus-Earth 2: goo.gl/xlK4iW
►Toroidal World: goo.gl/9aWjck
►Torus Planet Simulation: goo.gl/Esm8OX
►Discussion on Torus planets: goo.gl/XMLV7D - Наука та технологія
I just realized how cool it would be to look up and see the other part of the planet.
+Joseph Schmitz You never though of that before?
+Joseph Schmitz It would be like a Halo Ring.
+Joseph Schmitz me to, i never thought having rings or a torus shaped planet would be so cool, NASA, sign me up if you find one
Me: *Calls friend* I can see your house from here!
Friend: You've made that joke before...like 50 times
Play halo
The real question is: could you write a story that takes place on a toroidal world without inadvertently turning it into a treatise on toroidal world building?
+Kyle Silver I would write a story on it. Not sure how though.
Read Pendragon book five. I'm pretty sure the sun band on eelong is because eelong is toroidal
already been done but on an artificial planet
It’d be interesting, like maybe the villain’s plot is to collapse the planet
Kyle Silver Larry Niven did that. Forgotten which book but it starts: “Kannady for the State”.
I would love to look up at sky and see the ring of city lights water and mountains
+Aurora I just imagine that and my mind is blown as I stare at my imagination in wonder.
You wouldn't see lights, it would just be a band with no individuality.
The band would be In the light so you would be able to see the city's roads with a decent telescope when it is night for you.
Would make some good spying?
This is an interesting video, but it fails to address the most important question about life on a toroidal world: would their donuts be toroidal or spherical?
Castor Quinn Haha...great comment!
+Artifexian i dont know why you would say that much things are further needed to be explained. i think you explained it perfectly
I can answer that:
Their doughnuts will be pretzel shaped.
+Castor Quinn They'd be duocylindrical.
Cubical
my brain hurts now, this idea is epic, why has it not been done in a movie before ?
+Barry McGuigan I guess you could say the video game series Halo kinda did this.
never played that, might have to have a go now..
Barry McGuigan
Just be warned, it doesn't really show up much, and its more of a giant hula hoop rather than a donut
*****
yeah, true
+Barry McGuigan I know, right? This blew my mind :D I would so watch that movie!
Tell us more about this planet Ert.
+Organon I'm sorry but I had to steal that spelling of "ert" xD
I'm the 69th like ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
@@ranshibuki9659 it was making fun of his pronunciation of earth
canadian english i see
Now I want to live on a torus
+A to Rhombus So right.
what about the magnetic field?
Yousef Zidane idk lol
Yousef Zidane. One would be possible.
It could potentially be quite strong... If artificial...
Well, actually, I think it wouldn't be very strong, because our magnetic field is created mostly by a large mass of iron rich magma rotating in the Earth's core(I heard something about an experiment where they use a pretty huge ball of molten sodium to simulate that, which is extremely dangerous because sodium really likes to catch fire and it does even more so when in contact with water)
Anyway, because the torus planet doesn't have that I think it wouldn't have a strong magnetic field; but idk, maybe a big ring is better than a small ball? I do think the magnetic field is most interesting in the hole
Very wierd with a hoop shaped core
What if a species of Glactus-like organisms created planet sized rings of rocks, tossed them around suns, let complex life "ferment" on them and then later ate the entire planet, along with it's matured ecosystem, as a delicious afternoon snack?
So does this mean we live in a donut hole?😳
Carsonian The Great
...
uh oh
hahaha your profile pic is so related, that i'm laughing. a "WORLDBuILDING" video, plus a creature which consumes planets.
Mass execution of the Glactus-like organisms by the complex life.
thats like leaving bread out and then eating it once it's moldy as a delicious afternoon mold snack
+Artifexian This is awesome, I'm loving the idea of a world where day and night fly by almost unnoticed, where the inner rim is towering mountains, the outer rim is sparse archipelagos with stark, shearing winds, where the nights are bitterly cold and the days unbearably hot, a no-man's-land of volcanic activity between the two extremes - but you hardly mentioned the most interesting thing about toroidal planets: their non-euclidian geometry, where distance is proportional and what would otherwise be parallel lines always become concentric rings. They may have a fundamentally different understanding of how mathematics work. The geography is all well and good, but the fun part is figuring out how it would affect culture.
isn't earth already non euclidean
Toroids have a flat Euclidean geometry, i.e., parallel lines do not intersect. Spheres are non-flat, i.e., parallel lines intersect
im thinking of the cultural implications for hypothetical societies on a donut world. people living on the outer rim would be absolutely stunned their first time seeing the inner rim.
also, people living on the inner rim would be greatly impacted on their ability to look out and see the other side of the inner rim. would early civilizations think they are literally looking at where the gods live, or would they understand their world curves up and that they're just looking at more of the same, leading to an earlier understanding of outside civilizations than they would have had earlier?
great video either way!
I think that is would be such a good video if yeti dynamics made a simulation of each of the environments on a torus shaped planet.
LikeAMos we have to make this happen.
LikeAMos How about YES.
LikeAMos Trust me, know one wants this more than me!
LikeAMos Why can I only like a comment once? That's the best idea ever!
Would sunset and sunrise colours differ from each other? In certain places, sunlight would have to go through more atmosphere than others, so maybe at sunrise it has less atmosphere to go through than at sunset and vice versa for the other side of the planet.
LucasFlecoRepe You are correct! Sunrise/sunsets on a torus planet would feature some seriously deep reds and color gradients.
Artifexian And the "blood moons" would also be deeper reds!
the universe is huge. so there must be one of these planets out there
Ye
Plus there must be more that this universe
There isn't in the observable universe. But maybe?
+Shnitzle McFizzle
Just because we haven't found one, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The observable universe is HUGE.
Similarly, just because the universe is huge, doesn't mean one of these has to have formed naturally, or even at all. They might just be unlikely enough that they actually don't exist, or don't exist simply by chance alone.
Shnitzle McFizzle Your comment kills my brain cells.
This is one of the most amazing concepts and videos I have ever seen. Also the most delicious planets ever.
CainGrey Cheers, buddy! Glad you enjoyed
Mmm... rock donuts...
Thank you so much for this video! As an astrophysics major, I've had no luck finding a thorough source for information and speculation about torus planets- especially one that is both reliable and so descriptive. Since you're pretty good with drawing, could you visit this concept again and perhaps make a plausible map of one, with overlaying maps of tectonic plates and biomes? Also, how big could one of these get (maybe having 1g somewhere) and still be relatively stable?
Steven Hawking: "Your theory of a donut-shaped universe is intriguing, Homer. I may have to steal it."
Could you do a video about the ways there could be an actual flat world, like a square, or a disc?
Theo Rodriguês I'm planning on making videos about cube planets and flat worlds. Hang in there, Theo. :)
+bonbon42 ...
+bonbon42 actually Minecraft is a flat square
+AidanTBM // TheBudderMinecart but you can walk around a mc world (pc), dosnt that make it a sphere or are wormholes to blame
+The Habinator Nu, MC wurlds r squer
Hope a donut world is found in my lifetime :)
Probably not because all the aliens would have eaten them all.
Rain Verrev heheheee
I wanna eat it
And yeet it
It’s too bad that toroidal are impossible due to asymmetric instabilities, causing them to break up after just a few hours of existing.
ummmm donut world
ScottaHemi Om nom nom.
would be a pain in the ass to make a map of that planet
Millad Bahrami actually it would be easier. You wouldn't have to deal with any projection system at the poles (in video games you often see pinched poles on planets)
For a torus, you just unroll it into a cyllinder, then unroll the cyllinder. The only change here is that whenever you move above the "top" of your map, you would automatically appear at the bottom. Unlike a spherical map where you have to calculate where you would be on a rectangular projection.
Just think about it, would it be easier to cut apart a soccer ball into a rectangle, or to unroll a paper towel roll?
Millad Bahrami Actually, it wouldn't - a torus can be mapped to a rectangle as well, only where on a rectangular projection of a sphere one edge joins to the other (east and west on most maps of the Earth), both edges join together on the map of a torus. This means that on a rectangular map of a torus, with the bottom edge being south, the top edge would also be south, the middle would be north, and the 25% / 75% distances would be the outside / inside equators.
However unlike maps of Earth it would be more complicated to work out distances, as both equators would appear the same size whereas the inside equator is shorter than the outside one. However, as a rectangular map of the Earth already has this problem (ie, latitudes get shorter the further away from the equator you get but appear the same length on a map) - on a torus map it would just mean that one half of the map had latitudes decreasing as you move away from the equator and the others would have it increasing, with the poles being equal in length.
Asteroid Ventures Actually, you do need different projections for torus shaped worlds as the planet would be a 3 dimensional shape being shown in a 2D space. A rectangular projection would be one option, but then you would also have others, such as shape preserving projections and equidistant projections.
Though I agree that mapping a torus is definitely easier than mapping a sphere
I know!
Also globes would be shaped like donuts so kids might eat them by accident
Mmm...donut planets...
Also, when you mentioned the quick days and nights, I immediately thought of Minecraft days (which seem to fly by too fast).
Let's talk rings, toroidal planets with rings.
How would that work?
I subscribe to a dot of dust in the middle.
Most likely concentric on the same plane as the toroidal planet.
Maybe they would be just SPRINKLED about.
Maybe like the moon in the video, it would look like two rings.
Although the laws of physics would allow for a celestial body of such a shape to exist, definition states that an object must be spherical to be called a planet.
+Joseph Duffy Yes but the definition of what constitutes a "planet" is kinda of vague and has been changing over time as we learn about new planets and our galaxy. If we found a such a planet, it would just mean we'd have to revisit the definition
MonteCreations Fair enough
The laws of physics seem to love occasionally breaking people's brains, huh?
ahhh fuck, i geuss no tourtus planet for me
Only just discovered your channel, but I love it! Linguistics and astronomy are my two favourite topics. Keep it up!
Could you please do one about a tilting water world? I've read articles about how such a celestial object could exist and be habitable, but they lacked visuals.
We'll see, buddy.
Thank you
hold on i'm not smart enough to tell if this is a joke about earth or something else, please explain
Curiosity led me here from SciShow. I really appreciated how in-depth you went with, well, everything. Thanks for the extra mile-worth of effort!
Am I the only one who wanted to just grab and eat those donuts?
+Active Ayaan Nope
I just imagined Homer Simpson in Galactus' outfit xD
Ashton van Niekerk that doughnut in the thumbnail, looks great!
Hyper xD
Mmmmmm... Donut... Nope, you are not the only one 🍩🍩🍩🍩🍩🍩🍩🍩🍩🍩🍩🍩
Would the atmosphere of the planet also be a torus?
LucasFlecoRepe This is actually cool to think about. I feel that the atmosphere would be a torus as well because the atmosphere would follow the same gravitation and centrifugal forces as the planet itself. It might be less thick in some areas because of the complex interaction of the forces, like at the center of the donut. Not sure though.
If there were enough atmosphere, it might touch in the lagrange point in the center so it would look more like a disc.
LucasFlecoRepe There was an article in Sci Am a few years ago that said that the atmosphere on any plausible ring toroidal world would be a horn torus as spin and varying gravity would stretch the atmopshere, but that atmosphere would have different, lower density in the interior of the planet. I can't find a link to the article, sorry.
They need to add these planets in No Man's Sky.
There is a lot of things that need to be added to No Man's Sky like gas giants and multiple moons worlds and binary star systems and brown dwarfs and rogue planets and giant asteroids you can land on and planets with rings and black holes and neutron stars and white dwarfs. Those are just basic stuff. Later they can get a little more advanced with a torus planet and maybe
NMS actually uses a toroidal planet mapping scheme, that's why the terrain changes so drastically when you transition from space to land.
I am beyond glad this channel exists. Been needing sources for world building :)
Fantastic video mate!
Our planet better be jelly filled
magma is just superheated jelly
yeah I was agreeing with you
Thanks SO MUCH for researching this topic for us! I was thinking about it recently, and maybe someday I'll be brave enough to build such a (delicious) toroidal world. For now, at least, I'll stick with spheroids.
Final note: How awesome do you think it would be to find a toroid planet in real life? I think it would be a story for the ages!
Thanks again!
Interesting fact - the topography of the maps indicate that old final fantasy games take place on donut worlds.
Specifically the north of the map attaches directly to the south and west attaches directly to the east.
Those are donut shaped maps
Nicely told, missed the vids :)
Good to see you are back.
melvin e Ye, this one took me AGES to put together. Sorry about the wait.
I think it would be important to consider the lack of a molten spinning core, which would equate to a lack in a magnetic field. So, the solar wind would buffet away the atmosphere.
+LTAlter Something tells me the "Core" of the world would just be a thinner torus inside. I suppose if you got it to spin rimward, you could get a magnetic field.
The core would be within the torus itself. The inner region of the torus has a thinner crust, which allows the mantle within the torus to seep out much easily this volcanic activity at the inner rim.
kumbirai muringi It would have to "roll out" from the center to generate any magnetic fields I think.
Could there be such thing as a torus star? I'm thinking maybe no because it's made of gas and gas doesn't really stay together that well. Although i'm also thinking it could be artificially made by a super advanced race by quickly putting all the gas together quick enough to keep it gravitationally attracted, but there would be no point in them doing that. Also this makes me question if there could be such thing as a torus gas giant.
+Riley Amato Probably... if artificial with something to prevent the matter from coalescing in the center.
Riley Amato. Its not like the Taurus planet here is holding its self together due to compressive or tensile strength. Its all a ballance of gravitational forces. At the scale of a planet you can consider rocks and metals to be effectively fluid just like liquids and gas.
To determine if a Taurus star is possible you would have to scale the math up to at least the point that fusion could occour and see if it would work on that scale.
It would be interesting if he revisited this concept with a focus on scale. How small ciuld such a thing be without depending on the stregnth of its material? How large could it be? From giant terrestrial worlds to gas giants to stars.
Though I believe that even this planet in the video would have the mass of at least a few earths.
I observe you put lots of hard work into your video, RESPECT! I don't understand how some people put crappy videos that have no work ethic into them and get hundreds of thousands of views, and you put so much work into a great video and get 23,000 views...this world is a fucked up place, only if the people that put in work actually got what they deserved, I have so much respect for you dude, keep up the great videos!
Subbed. I LOVE this channel.
I just found this channel because of /r/interestingasfuck and was not disappointed at all. You've earned another subscriber.
Destructowad I was on /r/interestingasfuck. Wow! Can you link me? Glad you enjoyed the video. Will keep em coming :)
www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/38dexb/what_if_planets_were_donut_shaped/
lol
what about the magnetic field... where would the liquid iron core be
It would be inside the minor radii -- in other words, inside the tube of the donut shape like a creme filled donut.
This was fascinating
Best "what if" video I've ever seen so far
i would wanna live in that kind of world
what if donut world had a ring? that would be awesome to see :D
A whole bunch of rings! A giant volcano on the outside flings rocks and dust into LDO (Low Donut Orbit) where they take up ALL of the possible orbits, including the figure-of-eight one. The orbits are unstable, but the volcano keeps replenishing the rings, which shift constantly...
Awesome video. The artwork is oddly satisfying.
Excellent video. Many thanks for your contribution.
We need a toroidal planet with an 8 ring through the middle o_o
They need to toss that in a science fiction move and let us drool.
You're back!!
A thing to note though "Centrifugal Force" doesn't actually exist.. There's a thing called the "Centripetal Force" which works in the opposite direction.
An example:
Say you have a rock tied to a rope, you now start swinging the rock in a big circle, faster and faster. You can feel the rock pulling harder on the rope the faster you go, as if there was a force dragging it out. This perceived force is what you call centrifugal.
The reality is that there is no force acting outward, but rather one acting inward, one keeping the rock from flying away. If at any point during the swinging the rope were to snap, the rock would fly off in a direction perpendicular to the rope.
What you feel in the rope is actually the rope pulling back on the rock, constantly resisting it flying away, changing its direction as it goes along.
(I even provided an illustration: imgur.com/CgrtUB8 )
The centripetal force translates to everything having an orbit, in the case of solar system, rather than it being a rope holding a rock in place, it's gravity (and a bigger rock). This is also why the faster a planet spins, the more it bulges in the middle, the rotation is counteracting the gravity more in the place it spins the fastest: The equator
So in fact, on your torus diagram, you could just have left off the blue arrows, as the gravity would be what would keep the torus from falling apart; but the rotation would also be what would keep the gravity from crushing it into a sphere.
Nikolaj Lepka This is a very valid point. Thanks for the comment :)
Nikolaj Lepka I keep seeing this sort of comment everywhere... Yes it's a phantom force, but it still exists, as long as you are in a rotating reference frame. If you're gonna say that centrifugal forces aren't real, then you must think the same for gravity, as in general relativity, it is nothing but a phantom force caused by the curvature of space-time.
It's a pseudoforce, but can be treated like any other force.
Right, but for the sake of simplicity it's absolutely fine to use the term centrifugal force. Hell you can even calculate it. It might be a phantom force, but it's easy to understand and explain and its completely fine to use it in a video like this.
Niko L
Excellent description.
Wonderful episode! I've been wanting to know about this subject for a long time.
sketchesofpayne Glad to be of service
I honestly thought this was gonna be a meme video, but it's not and I'm happily surprised.
Good thing to know! xD
I'm joking, this was an amazing vid actually, congrats..
TimmacTR Cheers, buddy. :)
I only clicked this video because of the donut
"Polar Rings of Fire" sounds like the coolest album ever.
Imagine the amount of time travel you could do on this planet
DARN IT! Now I'm hungry again... :'(
XD
I'm hungery too I wanna eat the donut earth
There are billions upon billions of planets in that universe. Do donut planets exist?
it wouldn't be possible
THE ADVANCED GAMER why?
For a fact, Use your tiny brain to think of common sense :)
Also, A piece of rock the shape of a donut is incredibly stupid, Gravity and multiple forces would be acting upon an object creating an imperfect sphere. If there were a donut shaped planet, It would crumble and collapse to the center slowly forming a sphere due to the laws of physics, specifically gravity
THE ADVANCED GAMER fuck you.
This is some really cool speculation!
I can't even explain how much I love this video
Sooo, Halos are possible? (From the Halo games)
Provided the material you built it out of was strong enough (stronger than anything we currently know of). Then yes, it is easily possible
Actually the main problem isnt strength its the ammount of material. You would need most of a planets worth of metal just to make it let alone make the sytem to rotate it to the speed for the inertial force to pkant you to the wall
If we had discovered a material to use for the construction, then we would have access to all the limitless resources that exist in space. Also by that point we would have figured out artificial gravity. Because if we had the *knowledge* the build such a construction, we would have the ability with no doubt.
What about Halo style ring world's?
He explained already that ring shaped planets are not possible due to the thickness difference in height and depth, It would need to be built via artificial means. So, naturaly not possible, non-natural, possible with a strong enough material.
Such an interesting channel!
Wow. A satellite orbiting a torus-shaped planet would be a truly beautiful sight when sped up. Fascinating video and subject matter!
SciShow just made a video like yours, only worse.
+Richard S. I wish they didn't. They didn't go into quite as much detail and dumbed it down.
+Richard S. Actually, I'm glad they did that video.. without it I wouldn't have found this channel or at least not yet^^
+ChrisCrash043 Yes, possibly :). Although I first saw him at Xidnaf's a day earlier.
It The Moon was a donut, I would steal a NASA spaceship and eat it and record of me eating moon. I probably encounter an alien eating moon.
Mystical Moon Pies! Yes I had to make that joke.
Mystical Well you would have metal poop.
The moon is not made of cheese! I have told this to many people and they still not understand plz omg!
Mystical but it's very impossible to steal a rocket. Who wouldn't notice gauge rocket taking off in the middle of the night?
Sol Villa Michel it said donut
Love your videos man they are very interesting and fun to watch .
GiLM Glad to hear. Thanks for the kind words.
Artifexian One thing I am wondering about. Is it possible to keep the atmosphere on a ring world like halo. The reason I dont think its possible is because the rings centrifugal force would make the air just flow off the side.
@@GiLMGaming This is unlikely indeed. You'd need something more akin to a closed tunnel with windows to let light through.
I'm sold. I've been wanting to have an interesting feature of a fantasy world for D&D for quite some time, and this is by far the most interesting concept I've seen. GG!
+Northern Fried Chicken Good luck!
By the way I'm interested why you have the Northern counties of England on your picture, which one are you from?
James Wilkes Cheshire, the southern most of them unfortunately. That I could, I'd sooner live up in the Lake District or York.
Northern Fried Chicken
South Yorkshire here, I've always called Cumbria "The Land of the Forsaken" purely down to how miserable the weather is there, purely in jest of course. :)
centrifugal is not a force ((:
centripetal is a force ((:
whoa there, it's called angular momentum
Well actually, in a rotating reference frame, centrifugal (+coriolis) forces are a thing. But some might argue that this is kind of cheating and that they're only virtual forces.
It's really cool to see how many comments you reply to. Keep up the good work!
LucasFlecoRepe I try my best.
Nice work, Id' like to see more content about strange and interesting planet shapes.
:)
That was incredibly interesting. Thank you Tormund.
madredmc Cheers, buddy! Name's Edgar btw :P
Yiu know nothing, Felknia Music
Found out about torus planets on scishow. I wanted to get more info so I googled toroid planet and this popped up. Thank you so much.
Loved the video. This is my kind of science.
This is such a great video I have problems describing how much it blew my mind.
Thank you very much!
Peter Pokojny No problems. Glad I could induce a bit of cranial rupturing. :)
a friend linked me to your channel and i am absolutely hooked. i was honestly expecting much less detail than this, it's amazing to see the amount of work you put in to making this, so thanks for some quality content. onto the main question i have, tho - if there's an L0 at the centre of the toroid and a lower gravity in the surrounding realms, is a superstructure connecting both edges of the toroid even remotely viable? would the differences in rotational speed screw the system up..?
Thanks this helped me alot
Awesome! I had never even heard of this before!
I like planets and I like topology, so this is just perfect!
Lock Ray Woohoo!
This was really interesting :)
This sounds like it would be an amazing concept to play with.
I would love to throw this in a sci fi novel.
+The Sun or sci fi movie
In the part about centrifugal force and stuff, it really should've been mentioned that that's why the earth is not a perfect sphere and is "fatter" at the equator, and that there is a star which is two times wider than it is long or so because of spinning.
Artefexian has truly mastered the art of thumbnails
Fascinating. I'd always thought that it would be impossible for a planet to form into a torus and be stable.
1:22 But there's no such thing as centrifugal force. It's an illusion due to being in a frame which is not inertial.
this is sooo coool!
love it..
took me a moment to figure out why hula hoops would be made of tin..
and i love the taurus eart.. but you also pronounce it earth sometimes..
You just earned a sub
What a phenomenally weird idea! Thanks for the explanation.
This is really intresting. I was wierded out by the title because I didnt know donut type planets existed. Hopefully when we meet ailens they would live on one of these.
+DragonOnZap23 They can't exist naturally, the video said so. If there ever was one it'd have to be artificial, and that would need an inordinate amount of scientific knowledge and resources.
I love your videos please make a do a top 10 games you shod play
That was amazingly interesting. Never before has my mind dared to come up with such madness. I actually wanted to sleep today, I think I might rather... think, about what you've shared with us.
JayFolipurba Meh, who needs sleep :P Glad you enjoyed
This reminds me of the ringularity theory about black holes having a ring of infinite density at their core instead of a point.
Me: Clicks on this video
Also me: Realizes that I want a donut because I just saw one
i needed to know this
You scienced the hell out of this.
This is the greatest question anyone has ever asked.
i love this video
very good video i heard about donut worlds on scishow space but that wasnt good enough
Really interesting, never considered the exotic moon orbits before.
I need to watch this again because you speak so quickly that i cant follow this complicated stuff... But it sounds Amazing!!!
Your videos are super awesome and very interesting. I nver imagened something like a Donutworld could exist.
TheJklgamer Emphasis on "could". Theoretically possible; practically extremely improbable.