Sci-Fi's Forgotten Masterpiece
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- Опубліковано 23 тра 2024
- Sci-Fi and Cyberpunk are large and expansive genres, but there is one overlooked piece of media, which is so good it is almost criminal it does not get the respect it deserves:
Count Zero
As part of the sprawl trilogy, it is a founding piece of Cyberpunk, influencing the style of the genre. The matrix, 2077, altered carbon and more all take inspiration from this trilogy. So lets explore Count-Zero.
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#cyberpunk #bladerunner #countzero - Розваги
There is an amazing sentence in that book.
"And, for an instant, she stared directly into those soft blue eyes and knew, with an instinctive mammalian certainty, that the exceedingly rich were no longer even remotely human."
I was honestly debating between ending the video with that quote, or the quote from the box maker. It's hard to choose !
I used the box maker quote because, at the very least, I get a bit of hope from it. The quote about the wealthy is darker for sure.
I came back to make this comment and am so glad to see your comment! It is THE quote for our times.
i think of this line each time I watch the news
@@MOZONEandGlambot without doubt. Those people are so detached from the reality of everyone else on the planet that they are a literal danger to all life on the planet.
Yep. Reminds me of the "Walkaway" by C. Doctorow. Although it's more like a Solarpunk novel :)
Neuromancer is the book where cyberpunk is born, Count Zero is the book where it comes of age and becomes a powerhouse. Monalisa is the book where that powerhouse rewrites all the code and changes the rules of scifi forever.
This! 🤘🏻💀🤘🏻
You guys aren't even going to mention Dick at all?
Go lookup Rudy Rucker. 2 years before Neuromancer he won the PKD award for his cyberpunk novel Software. Also Akira and Blade Runner both preceded Neuromancer.
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sleep started it nearly 20 yrs earlier.
How can you mention the birth of Cyberpunk and completely forget about Philip K. Dick?
the whole Pacifica area area of the Cyberpunk game and the VooDoo boys are pure Count Zero
Yup, and they have one of my favourite choiices Netwatch vs Voodoo boys. Who do you trust ? One of the only corpos in the game who doesn't seem to be lying.
Fun fact prior to the trilogy William Gibson wrote several stories including Johnny Mnemonic which chronologically is the 1st story in the series.
The Burning Chrome short story collection has a few stories set in the Sprawl universe. Johnny Mnemonic is one. Burning Chrome (the short story after which the collection is named) is another one. If I remember correctly, "Fragments of a Hologram Rose" (William Gibson's first short story) and "Dogfight" are others. There may be others but those are the ones I remember.
Sally Shears & Molly Millions are the same person.
@@Leo-sd3jt Yea, i own an old copy pretty worn out^^ Dogfight is ahead of it's time. Reading that as a teen was so mind boggling.
I think the ABSOLUTELY first story is "Fragments of a Hologram Rose" in overlooked masterpiece collection of short stories, Burning Chrome, here "Johnny Mnemonic" is to be found...Neuromancer, Count Zero and Mona Lisa Overdrive, the "Sprawk Trilogy" absolutely changed my life in the early Nineties when I discovered them! They also inspire me to learn Japanese :).
Fun fact: Your grandmother _already knows how to suck eggs!_
(Hee-hee! I am _such an asshole!!)_
For many years, my handle was Wintermute.
And I've pulled many a "Wilson" in my time.
Count Zero is absolutely a masterpiece. Nice to see someone saying it.
Nice to see some agreement !
It is absolutely stunning, and it's always amazed me how it isn't more widely championed
Count Zero is not only my favorite book by William Gibson, it may be my favorite book, period.
Hard Wired by Walter John Williams was also iconic when it was published. Whilst not as elegant as Gibson's writing a lot of people found it a more accessible route into cyberpunk back in the 80s. Nevertheless the opening lines of Neuromancer, and the world therein, have remained stuck in my head in a way only exceeded by Orwell's 1984 (which I would argue could almost be seen as proto cyberpunk).
That description of the sky is so powerful, and to think there are two generations now that can never comtextualize it
I always thought of Walter Jon Williams as more on the Action Movie side of Cyberpunk (see also: K.W. Jeter). More cinematic than Gibson's internal monologues. Or internal dialogues, as the case may be.
@@polish2x91 they believe the sky is completely blue, a lovely sunny day.
@AxeMan808 Dr Adder is cyberpunk's father
Yes hardwired and voice of whirlwind, are real forgotten ones. Not Gibson, never Gibson.
This is literally most known cyberpunk trylogy , not overlooked one
Gibson's Spawl trilogy is definitely not overlooked lol. It's cannon.
Surprised it hasn't come out on film.
It's called 'clickbait' and it worked on me, too.
He's not wrong though. People only ever mention Neuromancer by name. Count Zero gets almost 0 credit for the fact it's a great book on its own.
@@KeithSchwerin Yes/No
Safe to say Gibson's best know work is Neuromancer. Think most fans of the genre are familiar with all three books.
Hoping there will be another Bigend book.
Idk, I never knew it was a trilogy. I think I’ll read neuromamcer for the first time now that I know it has good sequels. I’d never even heard it had 1
The preferencing of ideas and world building over characters in sci-fi is the reason why in the Netflix series of Three Body Problem they had to combine and re-write various characters in the story since in Liu Cixin's original there are only a very small number of characters who are really developed at all and even these are not contemporaneous (i.e Luo Ji appears in the second and third books but not the first, Yun Tianming only appears in the third). Most of the characters are introduced, hang around for a bit and then disappear never to be heard from again. This would make for very confusing watch for a TV audience.
I dont think this is forgotten, but yes is a masterpiece
Far from it. I'm not sure how anyone could say that it's not talked about.
@@pythonxz it comes from people that aren’t that into cyberpunk jajaja the whole trilogy is TALKED ABOUT but this is just a Pop take.
Haha glad we agree it was a masterpiece.
I think anyone who is a large fan of the cyberpunk genre would know this book, but as other comments said, from a pop point of view this one is overshadowed quite badly by Neuromancer.
I was considering including a metric from Google trends, which shows relevency over time and count-zero under performs compared to cyberpunk (Neuromancer) and sci fi counterparts (Three Body Problem) ! Thanks for the comment :)
Scavengers Reign. It's one of the most magnificent "cyberpunk" TV Shows I have ever seen. It's 12 episodes, so beautiful, the French artist Moebius would have lost his mind seeing it (in the best kind of way). The alien planet they created on it, and the "animals" is from the most gorgeous to the horrifically scary. It has scenes so calming and others beyond terrifying. It is on MAX, but they canceled season 2. Netflix bought it and will release it on 31 May 2024. If it's successful there, it will get a second season. PLEASE watch it. We need to tell studio's that this is what we as cyberpunk fans want and need. #scavengersreign
Ok I will add it to the queue of recommendations :) Looks good !
It really is a remarkable show and I highly recommend it but I didn't think of it as cyberpunk in the slightest.
It's Fantastical Hard Sci-Fi. Not a touch of cyberpunk other than keeping secrets and....spoilers avoided.
I watched it, great show, very thought provoking and foreign
I remember reading the first issue if neuromancer. After reading it i knew that this is a groundbreaking genre defining masterpiece. I was so looking forward for the release of the other two books of the trilogy.
Bruce Sterling and his Shaper/Mechanist universe geets you. The final compilation published as Schismatrix Plus is the book that represents the staple of the genre for me, just right to 2nd Gibson. If you haven''t read it yet, definitely check it out.
Added to my list :) Thank you
Count Zero laid the foundation of Cyberpunk’s (the tabletop game and 2077) solo. Turner is a solo.
I never thought of it that way ! That's actually really cool, yea turner is the original solo
Big time. Similarly John Shirley's Eclipse trilogy is clearly the genesis of the Rockerboy role.
George Alec Effinger's "Budayeen" series, Steven Barnes' "Streetlethal/Gorgon Child/etc", Mike Resnick's "Santiago: A Myth Of The Far Future (kind of a Western Frontier Cyberpunk - also a touch of R.A. Lafferty's Space Chantey in there as well, being a series of tall tales with a darkly humorous bent - you'll get that when you get to "What did you cut him with!?!").
Liking the content! Your intro and breakdown of what count zero is at the beginning, contrasted with the problems of modern sci fi was really solid. I haven't read Neuromancer/Count Zero but the dynamic of the characters and world building makes it seem like so much beyond imagination could happen. Plus that last quote makes me think of Ghost in the Shell plus with idea of Cyberpunk 2077 also sounds like it could've been an AI speaking.
Thank you ! Yea my main focus will always be the writing of the video, I like to think I am getting better. Your intuition is correct about the last quote, I'd strong recommend both books and the conclusion Mona Lisa Overdrive. Yea, thanks for your time and giving my videos a shot :)
In the late-ish 1980's I came across and loved a "cyberpunk" quad-"rillogy" called 'Horn', but I don't remember the author's name. All four books were pretty good.
The world in them greatly mirrored our own NOW and forecast a lot of what we have in technology. So basically the book was 40-50 years ahead of its time.
Cyber-technology wasn't as prevalent in their world, but it was slowly (and subtly) being integrated into the world.
'Horn' was former cop with a cybernetic arm, because he lost his flesh arm on the job. He's a detective now, like Magnum P.I. He's secretly upgraded his low-tech arm for an illegal high-tech arm.
One of the things I recall was there was a bounty hunter nicknamed 'The Boogey Man'.
All people in the book (in civilized areas) were implanted with a computer chip in their hands at birth, not unlike the tracking chip up in pets, like dogs & cats.
The government can track everyone all the time.
Large drones with sniper rifles fly overhead in most cities, killing wanted criminals who have arrest warrants out on them.
The Boogey Man hunts these criminals down before the drones can find them, and hacks off the criminal's hand (which has the implanted tracking chip) & he turns the hands into the police for a reward.
Horn is hired to find a wanted person before the drones or the Boogey Man gets him first.
Author: Ben Sloane, Titles:
1 Horn: Hot Zone Mar-1990,
2 Blown Dead
3 Outland Strip
4 Ultimate Weapon
@@LifeAtLandsEndThank you.
I like how you told me a story without having hit the plot details specifically. Makes me able to consider reading it now
Thanks man ! I try to be vague so I dont give too much away :)
Excellent style, man. Love it. Gonna bust open these books again soon and get back to the roots.
Thanks for making this video. I LOVED Neuromancer and for some reason Audible recommended Mona Lisa Overdrive afterwards and I didn't realize it was out of order until I was almost done with it. I was pisssssed but decided to just skip out on Count Zero because of how I didn't really enjoy Mona Lisa Overdrive. I'll go back and read Count Zero now!
It's excellent and posibbly the best of the three !
Count Zero turned me into a Goth. Well, actually, I kinda already WAS, but--being that I grew up in rural southwestern Pennsylvania--I didn't really have a name to put to it, until I read that novel and said: "Hey, those guys are a gang I would totally run with."
Haha, i love a good origin story: 'So I read this book once...'
Well done vid - thank you. I read these books many moons ago and had forgotten how good they are.
Good Job! Well Done! It's been too long since I've the trilogy, or any subsequent gibson, so I have nothing to add besides I like what you just did!
Thank you :)
Great presentation, thank you for that. I look forward to reading Count Zero in the summer.
thanks :)
I sure AF haven't forgotten reading it in the 90's
Cyberpunk 2077: Edgerunners slowly creeps out of the room and into the shadows, notes in hand....
I will review it eventually ! Its certainly not overlooked though, and has amazing characterization. It was actually the series which sent me down the Cyberpunk rabbit hole !
@@ifelse10110 Welcome to the shadows, chumski. Wherever you go, always shoot straight, conserve ammo and never ever cut a deal with a dragon. o7
@@danyael777 Yes! That! And geek the mage first!
Not really forgotten.. Apple is making a series
Robert Heinlein's Friday is a harbinger of Cyberpunk
Not even heard of Count Zero. I’ll have to track it down.
The first chapter of Count Zero is perfect
Well done! I re-read this and Gibson’s subsequent trilogies about every three or four years. My take is that his primary genius is his ability to observe, extrapolate and integrate culture and technology, and build worlds that seem to be inevitable. His characters and plots are secondary.
I agree, his world building is very strong and his ability to integrate culture into his work is really unique. Although he is not the most amazing author at character development, he is for sure a standout in Sci-Fi !
I love your story telling.
I have re-read the trilogy every 2 to 3 years and always find new excellence. Count Zero used to be my least favourite, but the last few read throughs have definitely brought me to the side of it being the stronger of the 3 books. Great video!
Thank you so much for watching the video ! Yea its my favorite of the three for sure.
I want to buy that trilogy, those specific books (with those specific covers), does anyone knows where can I get them? Or the ISBN?
Yes! I love Count Zero and have been developing visual material for it for a few years. Trying to feel out the right vibe for some of its key scenes.
Those Deathburger covers go hard.
thank you, i did not know about these books. just watched my nephew play cyber punk.
Absolutely agreed! I love the whole trilogy, but "Count Zero" really is "the jewel in the crown". 🤗
Im glad someone highlighted it, reading that trilogy Count Zero was a treat from beginning to end in a way that Neuromancer couldn't because of its closed POV and fever dream sexually driven world expansion and Mona Lisa was a bit too disconnected albeit both are still incredibly enjoyable. Count Zero, for me, was just so well written, clean, clear from the start and each plot added so much texture to the world. It's really a masterclass in world building through POVs while making each character compelling and each POV unique through their context.
Count Zero is probably my favorite non-modern sci-fi novel, I need to reread it but I came out of every reading of it floored and excited and satisfied. I binged the heck out of it. Im still vibing more with this new wing of Sci-fi in the 'new-weird' movement going on with books like the Area X trilogy...but damn if the Sprawl Trilogy hasn't influenced me greatly.
I have read Neuromancer but not Count Zero or Mona Lisa Overdrive. I will have to add it to my read list. Great video.
I hope you enjoy it, and thanks for the comment :)
Both his trilogies are pretty good and recommended
please, after doing mona lisa overdrive, do gibsons bridge trilogy.
It's on the queue :) I'll finish off the series soon !
I remember my excitement when I first cracked Count Zero. I was not disappointed, not at the first read, but the many after.
I love this book. One of my favorite reads ever. I think it's about time they adapt all three of his books either into three movies or a miniseries over 3 years
I recently read the trilogy and completely agree.
I’ve read Count Zero several times.. It introduces some more of those ideas humanity has raced to make real, but I always felt it was an “in between” episode..
I like your take, you’ve given me things to consider..👍
Totally agree that Count Zero is the best of the trilogy! I've always said that, and stand by it. Glad to see someone else agrees.
yeah, Count Zero was my fav too 👍
Do Mona Lisa! Do Mona Lisa!
Yea haha he might as well complete the trilogy at this stage
I'll for sure get around to it. I think there will be two videos in between as I have not started writing about it yet ! I haven't read it in a while but I remember it being a strong conclusion
What songs did you use in this video?
Having recently re-read the whole trilogy, Count Zero is definitely my favorite. You can really see Gibson's maturity as a writer in this one. (And I love the character art in this video!)
Agreed, I think the first book he had to devote too much time to world building and here we get to better see how characters interact with this world.
I chanced across both Gibson's and Stephenson's first novels at a bookstore one day in September of 1984, a lucky day the likes of which I've never been able to hit again. I'd say that Gibson is an unsurpassed prose stylist when he really goes for it, and he has his own ways of using highly specific details in his scene-setting, and he makes new or unusual concepts the story's centerpiece to an unusual degree. As to his characterization, he plays very close to archetype, yielding up some iconic characters, and they really feel like people who have their own agency and make choices independently of what the plot may require. At the same time, I always felt that he does what a lot of sf writers do, which is tell you the character when he could let you observe it. I don't mean that as a huge complaint, since he's my favorite sf writer for decades, maybe of all time. Just a thing I've noticed.
I have often heard that Gibsons voice is very clear in his books. I agree, the prose and the style of writing he uses is very unique and I think excellent. Admitively, it can be confusing !
How much do you think that a true to his later books? I am thinking of Pattern Recognition and Spook Country here that I have read, not his latest works.
I haven't read any of his later works, but from what I gathered while doing furhter research for this video it remains true.
I struggled with Pattern Recognition and gave up 44 pages in (I still remember that number 10+ years later), as I felt like I was reading a bad pastiche of Gibson's unique style in the Sprawl and Bridge trilogies. It was like how I'd write if I was pretending to have Gibson's earlier edge. Kind of burnt me out of trying Spook Country, though it still sits on a shelf with the rest of Gibson's stuff. In could just be me though, and in particular I'm aware that as I get older I have less patience for the "keep absolutely everything that's going on a mystery" plot style.
I'll have to look at those later books again.
So I read Neuromancer when it was first published in 1986 and was blown away by it. About two months ago I dusted off my paperback copy of it (which it turns out is a first edition btw) and read it again. Once again I was blown way by it. I cannot believe how well it has stood the test of time. An absolute masterpiece that single-handedly started an entire new genre of science fiction. It’s still so contemporary it could’ve been released last week. There was nothing that even came close to it back when it was first released and IMO there’s only been a few other SF novels that have come close since then. Consider Phlebas by Iain M Banks being one of them.anyway mate thanks for the vid, will dust off Count Zero (probably also a 1st edition lol ) and v]give it another go. I remember being a little disappointed with it as a sequel back in the day but it truly had some big boots to fill…
Where is the artwork in your video from? Looks great.
I read Neuromancer for the first time last month and loved it. Just got done with Count Zero and it kind of blew me away how much more I enjoyed it.
Where is the artwork in this video from btw?
I recognize this guy !
Loved count zero❤
I have always thought that Count Zero was equal to Neroumancer, so thank you for giving it some airtime. Several times, I have suggested to other YTubers that I review Count Zero would be welcome, but it always seems to fall on deaf ears. The story is just as compelling but tighter. In Neuromancer, by necessity, he focused more on the world-building. For me, Neuromancer took three to four reads to get it, and Count Zero took about two😀.
What makes Count Zero (and Neuromancer) especially interesting is the question of AI and its impact on society.
I would love to see a review of The Algebraist by Banks.
I will for sure check it out, I have a very long list at the moment but I'll add it to the queue :)
@@ifelse10110 Now that I am on a roll, for me, Gibson spoiled SiFi. Because he is such a superb prose stylist. And let's face it, not many SiFi writers are at his level. That is why I mentioned Banks. Keep it up--thanks.
Where does this art come from? Is there a graphic novel of these books? I tried to search for one but other than a very old graphic novel of Neuromancer couldn't find one.
I was thinking the exact same thing. It's got to be AI art. Really good ai art.
@@Muscles_McGeeno such thing as
Big fan of this series!! Is the art in this video from a graphic novel adaptation?
Count zero was my fav of the series
As far as I remember (it's been a long time), when I read the Neuromancer trilogy, I liked Count Zero most. Really need to read it again
Excellent video! What's your source for the images, though? looked as if they're from a graphic novel, but I couldn't find anything
Really cool video! What AI model did you use for the visuals?
I have read all of William Gibson's books. I still have the original Neuromancer computer game that was created for the 286-12Mhz PC on 5.25 floppy. Yeah, I am that old.
I got gooosebumps reading it. Myth in the making. I read it late and saw the future being createed.
The bedrock of my reading history I really should return to the well once again.
Given your output I do expect a video on GITS, the true heir to Blade Runner.
One day, I'll review GITs for sure :) I might actually use that as the title 'True heir to Blade Runner' !
The Shockwave Rider by John Brunner
Very nice content, I was just wondering where do you get the artwork from?
I was wondering the same thing. I'd buy books with this kind of cover art.
@@kevingriffin3628 Yeah, I was thinking how cool a cyberpunk comic series with this art style would be.
AI generated, unfortunately.
I've always liked _Count Zero_ the most and _Neuromancer_ the least of the "Sprawl Trilogy" and I've always been surprised at how little recognition for excellence it gets. But then I'm a guy who thinks that _Return of the Jedi_ is the best-directed Star Wars film to date, surpassing even _The Empire Strikes Back_ for filmmaking acumen.
_Monalisa Overdrive_ is also a masterpiece that doesn't get the recognition it deserves.
Mona Lisa overdrive is a really strong final entry to the trilogy for sure, just like Return of the Jedi ! Generally I think conclusions are hard to execute and critized harder than than the rest of the series. So yea !
I'm glad there is some love for ROTJ. I like Empire, don't get me wrong. But ROTJ just is a perfect movie in itself. If you think about it. Someone could pick it up as their first Star Wars film and watch it completely without knowing anything about the first 2.
To me, that just shows great writing and direction. And it annoys me that it doesn't get that love. And the Ewoks are not that Bad. pepple act like they are the main protagonists at times.
But I do find SW fans to be ironically very trend following sheeple types in their cynicism about everything SW.
I love Solo. Sue me.
Count Zero is supremely well written. Honestly, it’s my favorite of all Gibson’s books.
I read all three books but the only one I can remember is Mona Lisa Overdrive, it turns out. I had to look up the synopsis for the first two and remember the story but thought all of it happened in the last book.
I'd recommend giving them another try, this was my second read of the trilogy and it's honestly better than I remember. Maybe Im just more experience and matured... able to appreciate it more now.
I don't get why they havent made these a movie trilogy yet
There is a TV series coming soon :)
@@ifelse10110 any details??
@@mheiseus It will specifically focus on Neuromancer and is being developed by Apple TV !
@@ifelse10110 awesome thanks
Wow I thought it was common knowledge that count zero is a masterwork. Crazy.
**SPOILER**
I remember this book years later: especially the scene of the AI "building" art stuck with me - and it is incredibly relevant now.
Totally agree on the character and world-building issue - a lot of sci-fi was always just someone running with a cool idea (I love Asimov, but his characters were 2D), the really great sci-fi stories have cool ideas, but with real people in them.
Knew after the first sentence that this was about Count Zero. From first sentence is absolutely breakneck. One of my fav’s certainly; always surprised when folks haven’t read it.
where are these illustrations from? A graphic novel adaptation?
Another book of Gibsons I don’t hear talked about enough is Idoru. The second in the bridge trilogy which is also a very very good read.
I re-read all of Wm Gibsons books every couple of years. My favorite version though is Neuromancer on tape read by Gibson.
Love the story of Neuromancer, struggled with his prose. I consistently had a difficult time keeping up with what was ACTUALLY happening in the world and feel like a missed critical details even after rereading. Kinda wish I could see how it would read if it was penned by PKD or Clarke
Thanks for the reminder. I remember thinking Count Zero was a bit better than Neuromancer. I didn't care for Mono Lisa to much. But Burning Chrome, short story collection, was very good and showed off his character development.
Kill Switch is a season 5 X-Files episode written by Tom Maddox and William Gibson. It is one of the better episodes of the series and has the best opening of the whole series.
Who in their right mind calls Cyberpunk 2077 light on character building?!!?! It's greatest strength is likely just that!
It’s definitely not.
where is all this art from?
I discovered the artist and the author from a Thumbnail on a QOTSA remix of "Make It wit Chu"
I sometimes wonder whether Gibson‘s incredible stories in Burning Chrome and the sprawl trilogy (and those of his contemporaries, eg Bruce Sterling) now seem so prophetic because they wove an imagined world & terminologies that we who read them have since hacked into reality…?
I fell in love with Neuromancer as a recovering drug addict with a super complicated relationship with a drug addict Asian woman while living in Atlanta and remember chain smoking Chinese cigarettes the whole time I read it. I gotta tell you if you’re gonna read Neuromancer for the first time read it while doing all of those things with your life
Play the game first or read the comics first? Thanks in advance!
From where do you take these are comic slides? They are so awesome and i want more of these
AI generated junk art. 👎🏻
The foundation series can be counted as cyberpunk or not ? If yes please make a video on it I love foundation
I have added it to my list of books to review a while back :) There is a lot of requests for it coming through.
Well thought out video, and I agree with everything you said! Just a question; you say you're a book reviewer and essayist as well - are there any different channels we could follow you on? I'm a cyberpunk author myself and would love to get your take on my novel!
Only this channel and a programming channel ! And for sure I would, I have a huge backlog though. Just comment the name and I'll add it :)
@@ifelse10110 Lonely Nights on High Rooftops!
@@NatchaiStappers Added :)
🌻
where's the art from? it's great.
The artist goes by the name Deathburger. He has done prints of the cover arts in the past but theyre usually limited releases.
I agree with you. Count Zero was the best book of the trilogy.
YES !! 🎉
No cyberpunk skips this book. Come on. You want truly forgotten? Walter Jon Williams Hardwired and Voice of the whirlwind!
I took out hardwired and neuromancer on the same day from Manchester Central Library when I was a student, to my shame I still have both upstairs, found them again last month when the wife asked me to make some room in the spare bedroom, which is why I clicked on the video. I still vividly remember the sense of awe I felt after finishing both, never been affected as much by any single book since and I experienced both in a single week!
@@pzykezutube1165 Try Ursula K LeGuin - The Dispossessed.
I think his Virtual Light series was a bit* overlooked.
Definitely think the Sprawl trilogy is popular Canon
Man, Ill have to check it out now, I have a terribly long queue of rrecommendations...
I did enjoy Count Zero, but I still think Neuromancer is the superior work. For one, it was the first of the trilogy, so it feels fresher. Probably my main comparison between the two where Neuromancer is the superior is this:
The main players in Neuromancer all come together relatively early on, then they advance through the story as a team. In Count Zero and, I believe, Mona Lisa Overdrive (I admit I remember this one the least of the three), you are following these characters on their own, disparate journeys, so it feels more disconnected (even though it's not). I did really enjoy the Turner chapters - he's kind of a badass (dude gets blown up in the first chapter, ends up jacking-in to a jet later on, just some really cool stuff that was fun to visualize). Turner is like the ultimate G.I.Joe, if G.I.Joe existed in a cyberpunk world.
As cool as Turner is, Molly fulfills his role in a more classically cyberpunk way in Neuromancer - she comes off not so much as an ex-military mercenary, but as some kind of cybernetically-enhanced, punkish rebel. Her character, and Case, are very successful prototypes for many-if-not-all cyberpunk characters to come after them (I know Johnny Mnemonic was actually the prototype of Case, but that story isn't quite as iconic as Neuromancer, despite being very awesome in its own right).
Count Zero is still great, and I'm glad Gibson didn't try to clone the first book or bring Molly and Case back for a new adventure, but I still think it's hard to beat the original. In fact, I don't know if Gibson ever did beat it, solely based on how iconic and influential the first book is. How many Molly Millions have we seen since Neuromancer in cyberpunk-stories? How many Cases? The cyberpunk genre is brimming to full with Molly and Case clones, and for good reason. Like Conan for sword-and-sorcery, or like Gandalf for epic fantasy, Molly and Case are the two archetypes of the cyberpunk genre.
I agree that Neuromancer is far more influencial ! How can it not be, it practically founded the genre. However it is my feeling that Count-Zero is slightly better executed from a characterization point of view.
I did a review of Neuromancer recently, and honestly, the more comments I read about it and the more input people give the more I learn more about it's impact. I mean, to me when I first got into cyberpunk, I thought it was a nifty book, but now that I have been deep in the genre for a while now I realize all roads lead back to Neuromancer in cyberpunk.
@@ifelse10110 Just want to chime in here, I agree with this, I do think that Neuromancer is the superior story, however, overall, the characterisation was better in Count-Zero. I feel Molly as a character was stronger that Turner, but the other characters, including Case were a lot weaker, just along for the ride. Mona Lisa Overdrive just fell flat for me.
Just found your channel, going to have to go through your backlog.
@@Brootal666 Thanks so much, I hope you enjoy the other videos :) Funnily I thought Case and Molly were great but Riviera and Armitage were really just 'along for the ride'.
I had no idea there were two more after Neuromancer. I went straight over to Snow Crash and kind of gave up on the genre after Accelerando
I really recommend giving these a try
Count Zero had me hooked a lot faster than Neuromancer.
The same actually, book had me hooked in the first chapter, weird opening for sure.
To me, It's how the novel is set up by chapter with the story arcs, where, Neuromancer just drops you in the middle of this "world" and you have to feel your way around it. Not to mention, pacing. CZ is more of an "action film" vs NM being a slow-burning noir caper.
I had the same notion, as you, when I first read them.
@@achishukuteki941 IMHO Neuromancer's characters are kinda strange and/or zoned out, which does a great job of painting a picture of the future world. But they're not as relatable and fleshed out as Count Zero, which is what hooks you in. I agree with Neuromancer dropping you into this beautifully realised world, where you as the reader walk around Chiba waiting for something to happen.
@@KevinSan88 Indeed, I totally agree and to expound on that. Mona Lisa is, to me, is a thoroughly polished novel. I view the trilogy as WG's writing progression. In CZ, he catches his stride. In MLO, WG is in the zone.
I could be totally wrong. I've never read, seen, or heard (maybe i should, lol) about Gibson's writing process on this trilogy. I take it for what they are.
@@achishukuteki941 I think that with Neuromancer, Gibson had to go to extra lengths to paint a picture of the cyberpunk world which didn't really exist before, not in a neatly packaged form anyway. Someone reading Count Zero and Mona Lisa will already have the picture painted in their mind, so Gibson can focus on other things and the later books are better for it. I have wondered though...if another author had already established the cyberpunk genre before Neuromancer, would NM have ended up being a better book, like CZ and MLO?