The orientation of your antenna, and nearby objects, including your own body can dramatically impact RF performance. Standing up is actually a very good suggestion as it may provide different paths for the signals.
"80 tabs? Wuss! Just culled 80 to get back down to 160. .....& my pc is still so slow" (sound of crying in beer) Great vid - I was going to attend a Ham Cram, but the test questions were way way way beyond my technical understanding. Ohms law is about my limit..... ...I think your vid might well be a gateway to building inroads further down the track. Many thanks dude!
I also feel your pain I have a small Channel with 300 subscribers I'm thinking about getting some of these so keep up the good work on your channel I'm definitely going to shout you out if I do a video on them looks like fun just to mess around with you know
Yes, as a ham, I'm not interested in going above 1w for meshtastic as if you do so, then of course, ham rules apply. meaning no encryption, and station identification with callsign. Also a rule of thumb we use as hams, and at least via phone (haven't tested the concept on digital with something like ft8 to see what the exact reports change would be) is doubling your power is 1 s-unit, or 6db of improvement in rx signal for the receiving station. So, say .15w > .3w would improve the rx signal by 6db, and could take a station that's just barely able to receive your signal (on the edge), then you doubled your power, they would be able to receive, however it's not as huge of a difference as it sounds 'doubling your power'. When we're talking such low wattage, sure, .15w to 1w is still at least 15db better, which is substantial. As a ham we can even use up to 10w (well, 1500w, 10w is common, 1w is typical max for device licensed) on 2.4Ghz and 5.8GHz, but that doesn't mean we want to boost our wifi to those levels as then amateur rules apply, as well as RF Exposure, which we have to calculate and of course want (legally have) to stay below. Also, just remember that the higher dbi then antenna, the more 'focused' the signal. So for example, both omidirectional antennas, 3dbi vs 8dbi from the top of a house, maybe on a bit of a hill. The 3dbi antenna might be able to tx/rx to stations in the valley, where as 8dbi antenna may not. The improved performance doesn't magically make signals stronger from nothing, it has to compromise. It's all about radiation pattern to determine what the best antenna for a given situation is. It's something to consider when we put up repeaters, or even via HF if we're trying to hit a specific country/region for that rare/long distance dx contact. Another thing to remember is SWR - all these 915mhz antennas I've received that are 'designed for 915mhz' you would think have a good match to the frequency, but just about all have been greater than 2:1 at 915mhz. That means a lot of the rf power gets reflected back to the transmitter, thus reducing your effective radiated power (ERP) and potentially damaging the transmitter if the transmitter is not designed to handle that much reflected RF. Finally, a good tip to remember too, feedline loss. I don't think this is huge issue as many people are connecting to the antenna to the transmitter with a very small amount of coax, especially for repeater nodes as these can be easily powered off of solar, but using bad coax / or lengths of coax can significantly reduce the amount of rf power reaching the antenna. There are great calculates for that. I use 5/8" hardline for even 420-470mhz, and 1.2ghz to minimize line loss, so the losses are even more substantial with 900mhz, as I know first hand with 1.2ghz. RF Is black magic, and the thing I love about amateur radio is experimenting and the learning never stops; plus the bonus of playing on many MHz of available frequencies, from VLF to EHF with power up to 1500w* (US, not all bands). Keep it up! Meshtastic has encouraged a lot of people to play with rf, and that's the goal of ham radio too.
Thank you so much for your insight! I agree with everything you stated. I tried to fit as much as I could in a timely fashion. I really like how you explained how the different antennas work and how Bigger is not always better. I probably should have spent more time on the various antennas and how they operate. Maybe that could be the next video. Again, thank you!
This is a very helpful comment. It is interesting to note that the 1W rule applies to Effective Radiated power. This is the actual "RF Electricities" radiating from your antenna. Several things can Significantly Decrease your ERP, including Cable line loss, Poor SWR, Crappy antenna, Etc. Also it is important to note that using a high gain and or directional antenna can Significantly Increase your ERP, so really, if you want to dial it in to exactly One Watt (30 dBm) of ERP, you need an RF meter. Obviously, nobody would want to break the rules, however, it is also interesting to note that it would be almost impossible for anyone to know that you were putting out 2 watts instead of 1 watt. RF power falls off exponentially with distance, so they would have to get right up next to your antenna to get a reading above 1 watt. Plus, apparently nobody cares, because there are a million country boys on the 11 meter CB band screaming out 100-500 watts and nobody does anything about that.
@@jasoncthomas Yep great points. Sure you could use a meter but with FCC and ham, field measurements are the standard too, so while we know the maths all check out, sometime the black magic of RF rears its ugly/beautiful head and makes a mockery of us, so even a simple SA (tiny SA is what I have/use) and evaluate around the radiating element from various distances / angles to try to visualize the radiation pattern. Always loved the aspect with ham/rf of always learning and growing. You're not kidding about the good ol' boys and CB, heck even look at 14.3 / 7.2mhz. FCC response to formal complaints "spin the dial" which is fair. FCC only cares when a paying corp is affected or truly public safety (FAA / ATC freq jammed). Or even baofeng that someone who has no license nor understanding buys and types in a freq and blasts their 5w lol, no action taken. Tho, honestly for all the hate Baofeng gets, it's also been amazing for getting more people into the hobby of RF.
Interesting. I like the potential for more range...and yes, I am a licensed ham. Just not sure the station G2 increase would necessarily benefit. Said increase also increases your "footprint" ; ) Even better would be an easy way to be able to move/change output power up/down as needed.
Yes! you are correct. After 1 Wattage the HAM rules apply meaning you must send non-encrypted messages and use your callsign. You can change (Limit) your output with the commands mentioned in the video I believe it was "Meshtastic --set lora.tx_power XX"
I really have no idea how this works, but could you "push" a "long/slow" message with a quick follow-up "short/fast" (or vice versa) to increase the transmission speed (kinda like carrying/boosting or maybe even drafting) but still retain long range range?
It is interesting to note that the 1W rule applies to Effective Radiated power. This is the actual "RF Electricities" radiating from your antenna. Several things can Significantly Decrease your ERP, including Cable line loss, Poor SWR, Crappy antenna, Etc. Also it is important to note that using a high gain and or directional antenna can Significantly Increase your ERP, so really, if you want to dial it in to exactly One Watt (30 dBm) of ERP, you need an RF meter. Obviously, nobody would want to break the rules, however, it is also interesting to note that it would be almost impossible for anyone to know that you were putting out 2 watts instead of 1 watt. RF power falls off exponentially with distance, so they would have to get right up next to your antenna to get a reading above 1 watt. Plus, apparently nobody cares, because there are a million country boys on the 11 meter CB band screaming out 100-500 watts and nobody does anything about that.
The orientation of your antenna, and nearby objects, including your own body can dramatically impact RF performance. Standing up is actually a very good suggestion as it may provide different paths for the signals.
"80 tabs? Wuss! Just culled 80 to get back down to 160. .....& my pc is still so slow" (sound of crying in beer)
Great vid - I was going to attend a Ham Cram, but the test questions were way way way beyond my technical understanding. Ohms law is about my limit.....
...I think your vid might well be a gateway to building inroads further down the track. Many thanks dude!
Loved your humour! Thanks!
I also feel your pain I have a small Channel with 300 subscribers I'm thinking about getting some of these so keep up the good work on your channel I'm definitely going to shout you out if I do a video on them looks like fun just to mess around with you know
Now that they've added the radiomaster bandit nano as a compatible device, there's now a 1w device for $50
Yes, as a ham, I'm not interested in going above 1w for meshtastic as if you do so, then of course, ham rules apply. meaning no encryption, and station identification with callsign. Also a rule of thumb we use as hams, and at least via phone (haven't tested the concept on digital with something like ft8 to see what the exact reports change would be) is doubling your power is 1 s-unit, or 6db of improvement in rx signal for the receiving station. So, say .15w > .3w would improve the rx signal by 6db, and could take a station that's just barely able to receive your signal (on the edge), then you doubled your power, they would be able to receive, however it's not as huge of a difference as it sounds 'doubling your power'. When we're talking such low wattage, sure, .15w to 1w is still at least 15db better, which is substantial. As a ham we can even use up to 10w (well, 1500w, 10w is common, 1w is typical max for device licensed) on 2.4Ghz and 5.8GHz, but that doesn't mean we want to boost our wifi to those levels as then amateur rules apply, as well as RF Exposure, which we have to calculate and of course want (legally have) to stay below.
Also, just remember that the higher dbi then antenna, the more 'focused' the signal. So for example, both omidirectional antennas, 3dbi vs 8dbi from the top of a house, maybe on a bit of a hill. The 3dbi antenna might be able to tx/rx to stations in the valley, where as 8dbi antenna may not. The improved performance doesn't magically make signals stronger from nothing, it has to compromise. It's all about radiation pattern to determine what the best antenna for a given situation is. It's something to consider when we put up repeaters, or even via HF if we're trying to hit a specific country/region for that rare/long distance dx contact. Another thing to remember is SWR - all these 915mhz antennas I've received that are 'designed for 915mhz' you would think have a good match to the frequency, but just about all have been greater than 2:1 at 915mhz. That means a lot of the rf power gets reflected back to the transmitter, thus reducing your effective radiated power (ERP) and potentially damaging the transmitter if the transmitter is not designed to handle that much reflected RF.
Finally, a good tip to remember too, feedline loss. I don't think this is huge issue as many people are connecting to the antenna to the transmitter with a very small amount of coax, especially for repeater nodes as these can be easily powered off of solar, but using bad coax / or lengths of coax can significantly reduce the amount of rf power reaching the antenna. There are great calculates for that. I use 5/8" hardline for even 420-470mhz, and 1.2ghz to minimize line loss, so the losses are even more substantial with 900mhz, as I know first hand with 1.2ghz.
RF Is black magic, and the thing I love about amateur radio is experimenting and the learning never stops; plus the bonus of playing on many MHz of available frequencies, from VLF to EHF with power up to 1500w* (US, not all bands). Keep it up! Meshtastic has encouraged a lot of people to play with rf, and that's the goal of ham radio too.
Thank you so much for your insight! I agree with everything you stated. I tried to fit as much as I could in a timely fashion. I really like how you explained how the different antennas work and how Bigger is not always better. I probably should have spent more time on the various antennas and how they operate. Maybe that could be the next video. Again, thank you!
This is a very helpful comment. It is interesting to note that the 1W rule applies to Effective Radiated power. This is the actual "RF Electricities" radiating from your antenna. Several things can Significantly Decrease your ERP, including Cable line loss, Poor SWR, Crappy antenna, Etc. Also it is important to note that using a high gain and or directional antenna can Significantly Increase your ERP, so really, if you want to dial it in to exactly One Watt (30 dBm) of ERP, you need an RF meter. Obviously, nobody would want to break the rules, however, it is also interesting to note that it would be almost impossible for anyone to know that you were putting out 2 watts instead of 1 watt. RF power falls off exponentially with distance, so they would have to get right up next to your antenna to get a reading above 1 watt. Plus, apparently nobody cares, because there are a million country boys on the 11 meter CB band screaming out 100-500 watts and nobody does anything about that.
@@jasoncthomas Yep great points. Sure you could use a meter but with FCC and ham, field measurements are the standard too, so while we know the maths all check out, sometime the black magic of RF rears its ugly/beautiful head and makes a mockery of us, so even a simple SA (tiny SA is what I have/use) and evaluate around the radiating element from various distances / angles to try to visualize the radiation pattern. Always loved the aspect with ham/rf of always learning and growing.
You're not kidding about the good ol' boys and CB, heck even look at 14.3 / 7.2mhz. FCC response to formal complaints "spin the dial" which is fair. FCC only cares when a paying corp is affected or truly public safety (FAA / ATC freq jammed). Or even baofeng that someone who has no license nor understanding buys and types in a freq and blasts their 5w lol, no action taken. Tho, honestly for all the hate Baofeng gets, it's also been amazing for getting more people into the hobby of RF.
Interesting. I like the potential for more range...and yes, I am a licensed ham. Just not sure the station G2 increase would necessarily benefit. Said increase also increases your "footprint" ; ) Even better would be an easy way to be able to move/change output power up/down as needed.
Yes! you are correct. After 1 Wattage the HAM rules apply meaning you must send non-encrypted messages and use your callsign. You can change (Limit) your output with the commands mentioned in the video I believe it was "Meshtastic --set lora.tx_power XX"
Okay how about putting the links in the description retroactively?
I will be trying to back-add the links this weekend. Thank you. I just recently broke 100 subs.
I have added the links to the video, and they work! Again, thank you all so much. Your comments and suggestions make these videos possible.
I really have no idea how this works, but could you "push" a "long/slow" message with a quick follow-up "short/fast" (or vice versa) to increase the transmission speed (kinda like carrying/boosting or maybe even drafting) but still retain long range range?
It is interesting to note that the 1W rule applies to Effective Radiated power. This is the actual "RF Electricities" radiating from your antenna. Several things can Significantly Decrease your ERP, including Cable line loss, Poor SWR, Crappy antenna, Etc. Also it is important to note that using a high gain and or directional antenna can Significantly Increase your ERP, so really, if you want to dial it in to exactly One Watt (30 dBm) of ERP, you need an RF meter. Obviously, nobody would want to break the rules, however, it is also interesting to note that it would be almost impossible for anyone to know that you were putting out 2 watts instead of 1 watt. RF power falls off exponentially with distance, so they would have to get right up next to your antenna to get a reading above 1 watt. Plus, apparently nobody cares, because there are a million country boys on the 11 meter CB band screaming out 100-500 watts and nobody does anything about that.