So nice to see a contractor who actually cares enough to understand all these small details add up to yield a meaningful difference, and thus a substantial improvement. Seems like everyone I have had to work on my house tells me "you're too picky" "Good enough" or my favourite "It's better than my house"
It's all about building science and getting it right! Thank you for the compliment and for commenting, and yes we try to be on our details (my staff think I'm a pain in the a@@ half the time ; ) Andy
Hi there thanks for the like! And you're right, it is rare that you encounter square corners in existing homes. But that's where the tools come in. Good luck with your project!
I keep watching random videos on attic and insulation stuff and yours are consistently some of the highest quality and most informative videos that come up on the matter. Thank you for the hard work!
Thank you for the compliment! I have been at this now for a while, and I think that the building science training that I've had combined with my desire to NOT have to go back to a customer's home to address a short coming in one of our solutions has led to the types of repairs that we do. I will be posting more videos soon! Good luck to you on your projects!
Totally agree. Ive been doing a lot of insulating in my attic and this channel has been one of the most helpful. Cut our winter heating bill in half after my first round of treatment!
Watched this for general ideas for insulating attic access. Used it to make an insulated hatch panel for my access frame that has been covered with just a board for 3 years now. I incorporated weight (big scrap piece of 3/8" plexiglass), a handle (an extra galvanized handle I had lying around) on a piece of 1 1/2" polyiso board I had in the barn. I bought some really nice 1/2" ribbed rubber weatherstrip seal to set it on, and it really turned out great. Thanks for your very practical video!
Thanks for this video! I made a hatch just like this in a stairwell that leads up into our attic with the foamboard sitting on moulding i installed all around. But your video showed me a couple ways to inprove it, particularly in terms of air tightness so thank you!
Great idea. I spent a little more money and I attached two elbow arms to the foam board and two stepper motors so the foam lid lifts and then moves on the side with the push of a button.
Thanks, creating a durable, insulated attic hatch solution for a pull down ladder takes a few steps, but I try to lay them out in as coherent a way possible. Andy
Thanks! Doing these things correctly requires a number of steps, at least if you want it to come out with a tight, durable air seal, insulation barrier, and be durable. This solution should last a lifetime for the majority of homeowners. Thanks! Andy
Thank you for saying so! I can confirm that the design has been battle tested here for well over a decade of hot summers and cold winters. Glad it helped! Andy
Thank you! This is a time proven design that's working in several thousand homes in Pittsburgh. I have yet to receive a call that one has failed, broken, etc.
Hey there you're welcome and I appreciate the kind words! Our teams are building these in Pittsburgh on a weekly basis and we get great results. If you give it a go I hope that you get the results that you're looking for! Andy
I like to make a sandwich to seal an attic opening by attaching drywall on the bottom, plywood in the middle and foam boar on top. The drywall has a high burn through time so I have that face the interior. This looks like a great job of air sealing an attic hatch.
Thanks Chuck. Your drywall idea with the drywall ignition barrier is good. Unfortunately we see a lot of those where the drywall deteriorates from getting knocked around a bit. The combination of air seal, insulation value, and durability is our primary concept. Hopefully if there's a house fire it won't be determined that our attic hatch was the straw that broke the camel's back ; ) Andy
Hi Chuck, your drywall sandwich method will work just fine the vast majority of the time. The only problems we see using drywall are when the hatch gets used regularly, or the drywall begins to get damaged. At that point the drywall starts chipping away around the edges and eventually air-leaks form around the perimeters. It's just not as durable as plywood or XPS rigid foam board. Thanks! Andy
Hey there, thanks for the shout out! I would like to create another video for doing this that's more condensed, but there's simply more than 2-3 steps required to get these to come out right. But if you're able to follow them, you will have an exceptionally durable, well sealed, and well insulated attic hatch for many years. We have now been building these for 15 years, and I have yet to have a single homeowner call and tell us that their hatch broke or no longer seals well. Glad you found this helpful! Andy
It would be sensible to stick Gapotape around the perimeter of the kingspan foam board so there is a tight fit between it and the wooden frame, to prevent further cold, and hot, air getting down as far as the weather strip. You could also have a second larger layer so it, in turn, sits on the frame.
Hi, it looks like Gapotape is an English product, I have not seen it before in the States. I looked at it and it appears to be foil faced. I like the soft foam rubber of the weather stripping that we use combined with the weight that we add to the foam board to create a tight seal. I would not expect a smooth metallic surface versus a soft foam rubber one to improve the air seal here, but I could be wrong. We've been building insulated hatch enclosures around pull down ladders like this for about 15 years and have tested them with both infrared imaging and blower doors, and they perform quite well so long as the inner wooded lip that the foam board rests on is level all the way around. Another component is that in many cases homeowners are using this multiple times a year to access their attics. By adding additional tapes, weather stripping, etc onto the lip that the hatch sits on, or onto the hatch itself, the odds of a foot hitting it, or the tape getting mashed while the hatch is being moved around goes up. And it is unlikely that most homeowners are going to identify that the seal was compromised and then "properly" repair it. This design, with the materials used, should stand up to decades of use. Thanks! Andy
I did a second layer of foamboard on top for my project and it works great, ended up shaped just like a fridge door. Works great, though ive not actually blow door tested like these guys have.
Helping plan for an old house new insulation - this video is perfect. Watching your others. Just an idea when you were dropping in your weather stripping, if you go corner to corner and fully overlap (two layers in corners) and cut through both layers at roughly a 45-degree the two stips will meet very tight and need in the corner. Any problem you can see doing that?
Hi there, thanks! I haven't tried that before, but it sounds like it could work very well. The only issue I can think of is that the weather stripping that we use is VERY sticky, and it tends to stick to itself so well that it's likely to tear when you try to peel the top layer off the bottom layer. But maybe I don't understand exactly how you plan to do this? Let me know how you make out, we're always looking to improve our own craft here! Thanks, Andy
We use this stuff. It's durable and covers almost the whole lip of the box. Thanks for watching! www.homedepot.com/p/Frost-King-1-1-4-in-x-3-16-in-x-30-ft-Camper-Mounting-Tape-for-Trucks-V447H/100122697
Great video as are all your others! I wish I could do this but I have an HVAC flex duct that goes right over my hatch opening and there isn't enough slack in it to move it more than a few inches in any direction. Any ideas how to work around this?
Thank you! You could cut your flex duct, maneuver it to where you need it to be, and then patch in a new piece of new flex hose. A box of R-6 or R-8 rated flex duct runs $50-70. You may lose a small amount of duct velocity, but this would work. You'd just need to make sure that you patch in the new piece of flex hose properly. Andy
@@insulwiseenergycomfortsolu3293 Thank you, this may be something to consider. I just had my attic air-sealed and insulation added but they couldn't install the hatch seal because of the duct and didn't offer an option to move it.
@shingdao7 Hmm..that's too bad. On Amazon I know they sell a zippered attic hatch solution that is insulated, flexible, and will provide a better air seal than what you likely have now. If you have limited space due to the duct my guess is that a solution like this can likely be made to work, that would be my best suggestion. Thank you for commenting and good luck with your project! Andy
@@insulwiseenergycomfortsolu3293 @insulwiseenergycomfortsolu3293 Hello Andy. Just reverting to let you know I managed to complete the job fairly successfully! I was able to install the hatch wall by raising the flex duct enough to accommodate the 2x10s. The trickiest part, as you also noted in your video, is to get a perfect rectangle with the lips or cleats...my stairway opening was not a perfect rectangle to begin with so it was a challenge, but I managed to get it done. I opted to cut the foam board with a 9mm utility knife which was a much cleaner cut than I was getting with my circular saw. In any event, thought you'd like to know your video was indispensable. Using an infrared thermometer, I am now getting a 10 degree temp differential from the conditioned space hatch underside from the attic unconditioned space. Cheers! I've attached a link to the completed project. imgur.com/a/tx9X2Bc
Up here in Canada, the hatch has to have an insulation rating match the attic. In our case, that is R-50. Consequently, my hatch has 10" of foam board.
In a much colder climate it could make more sense. Here I don't believe our customers would ever see the return on that investment (it would raise the cost of the hatch solution dramatically). Thanks for commenting!
You have to be careful (obviously), but we have to do it all the time. I'd recommend a cheap headlamp so your hands are free, a dust mask, and then either hold onto the roof rafters as you move through it, finding the joists with your feet and staying on them, and kick it back once done. Or use a basic broom to swish yourself a path and then swish it back into place when you're finished. It's not as difficult as it looks, but you do have to be careful and STAY on the JOISTS is the biggest thing.
Do you think I can use foam board insulation in a central Texas Attic for this same purpose? I'm concerned the high heat may be too much. Perhaps a thermal barrier would be necessary. Or a different solution altogether?
Yes, I think this type of foam board would hold up well. We use the green 2" thick pactiv brand, XPS board from Lowes. I wouldn't use a styrofoam or polyiso style foam board, I think you'd be much more likely to run into issues with those materials. Some of our attics here will hit 130-140 degrees. I don't think it's likely to be too much hotter than that even in TX in an attic.
@@insulwiseenergycomfortsolu3293 Thanks for the insight! I'm going to keep researching what my local stores have in stock and see how they measure up. Great design btw, I bet that guy goes in and out of his attic as often as he can 😄
At around 14:53, your partner in the background looked like he was making a Pot Light Cover. Rather than spending $16, it looks like you made your own at a fraction of the cost. Can you please advise what material you used to make it?
We typically use 1/2" foam insulation board and tape it together. We also make sure that the lights have LED's in them and if they do not we change them out with extra LED bulbs that all of our trucks carry. The boxes are large, at least 12" high and usually about 14-15" wide to accommodate the frame of the light and not allow for excessive heat build up. Some could find this contentious, but we have had no issues over the years with it. The newer LED lights put out very little heat, and the thermal shut off switch inside the light fixture would shut off the light if it got too hot, or cause it to blink on and off. We tape the box together using metallic HVAC tape. It is highly tacky and durable. We then use foam to seal the box to the attic floor.
@@insulwiseenergycomfortsolu3293 Thank you for the detailed response! I think your solution is a fraction of the cost and is a much better solution than off the shelf products costing much much more. 🙏
@@EverGrowSteve Thanks Steve! We've tried all of those solutions as well. The pre-made rock wool covers are nice, but they tear and get easily smashed in the back of a truck and are also far from air tight. I've pulled smoke through them with a blower door. The cardboard flip up ones, metal sided box ones, etc all leave a lot to be desired from our point of view. Also -- pot lights / recessed lights are rarely situated perfectly in attics like it shows in their advertisements. The lights are often directly against studs, up against roofs, etc and we went our route because we needed a solution that was adaptable to the wide variety of situations that we have to seal pot lights in. Glad this helped you! Andy
The product is M-D Building Products Camper Seal Tape 1 1/4" in W x 30 ft Roll. It's about $7 on Amazon. I just put these details into the video description. Hope it helps! Andy
you mentioned that if the opening was more like a trapezoid than a rectangle, it would be difficult to construct the lid. I am curious...would the same thing apply if the opening were shaped like a rhombus?
Yes they are 2x10's, but you may be able to get away with 2x8's. The hatch wall needs to be about 3" inches higher than the ladder is when it is folded up inside the attic. For some people it is more challenging yes, but for most it's not an issue.
Good idea but the r value is only as good as the wood 2x8 frame. I would have used foam board on the inside of the framing recessed at the top to create the shelf for the lid to sit and be insulated completely
Thanks for commenting, and you are correct. After the hatch was completed we built a storage pad around this hatch wall and then blew in cellulose insulation all around it so that the sides of the hatch were covered. If the hatch walls would not be covered up to the top with insulation, than covering them with foam board would definitely be the move. Andy
Often the existing insulation is fairly well organized before we start. It looks like mess in this video because we have been lifting it everywhere and sealing the air leaks beneath it with foam.
Thanks. We install these all the time in attics with tighter, trussed types of roof systems. But you do want to have at least a few feet of overhead room, correct.
We generally use 2x10's to build the box that the ladder folds up into. But you don't necessarily have to. You need about 3" inches of clearance between the top of the ladder when it's folded up and the top of the hatch wall. For lower profile ladders a 2x8 can work. Hope this helped!
This is what we use. It's about a full 1" inch wide, which is better than the Frost King brand's version which is only about 2/3" of an inch wide. www.homedepot.com/p/M-D-Building-Products-30-ft-Gray-Foam-Tape-Camper-Seal-for-Camper-Shells-02352/202066511 I'm sure you can also find this on amazon Andy
@@insulwiseenergycomfortsolu3293 Thank you very much! My local home improvement store didn't have anything wider than 1/4". Looks like I'll be going to Home Depot then.
This looks a lot more durable than what my home's previous owner made. He built a 4-sided box from foam board that has each side screwed together and it rested on fiberglass insulation. Between me and the contractors I've hired, the fiberglass insulation loosened from the plywood reduces the box's effectiveness. Also, I've noticed the box gets tossed to the side when someone has gone up into the attic that has weakened corner seams. I don't have a circular saw, but I have a hacksaw although I don't cut very straight.
Thanks! This solution has been pretty well tested here over the years. I don't like the zippered covers (weak R value and they leak air) and the box covers we see ALWAYS get beat up and degraded fairly quickly. If you're able to construct a hatch cover like this, it will work well for you for years. Andy
Yes, we sometimes do that and you will get better R-Value (R20 versus R10). The main reason that we don't is because of the added expense for the homeowner (that they typically don't want to incur), and with foam insulation at 2" you eliminate close to 90% of thermal conduction, so you begin to get substantial diminishing returns once you start to add more inches. What I will say is that when you go from a poorly air sealed, 1/4" thick wooden attic hatch to an air sealed hatch with a 2" inch layer of foam board for a hatch, you will see a MASSIVE positive impact. Andy
Why not glue handles on instead of putting holes through the foam insulation? You can even make the handles out of foam. I use PVA glue to build with foam.
A lot of adhesives will degrade foam board, they kind of break it down. Loctite makes an adhesive specially designed for foam, but it takes 24 hours to cure. I also see sealants fail from time to time. Mechanically attaching the foam with screws and washers is quick, durable, and permanent. Penetrating the foam with a screw does not impact it in terms of reduced insulation value or air leakage, the wooden handle is sealed tight against the foam board. Andy
A few screw holes through the foam are not going to make the slightest difference to the R valve of it. You would have to do the same if fixing it to the underside of rafters
Great video! Would the xps board be good for providing soundproofing insulation as well? My wife has an attic office and we have a similar hatch with fold down ladder. She doesn’t want to hear family noise while she’s on zoom meetings. What you recommend as an alternative material?
Hi there, the 2" inch thick XPS board would certainly knock it down a good bit. You could also double it up and make it 4" inches thick by adhering 2 pieces of it together. Either way you go, it will knock down a solid bit of the noise that is now coming through that hatch. Andy
You could certainly double, triple, quadruple the R-Value, etc by adding more foam board. But that 2" inches of XPS foam board will eliminate about 90% of the temperature transfer coming through from the attic. We do this to keep costs down for our customers and in my own mother's home I used the exact same design. Except in extreme situations, I would be surprised if you could notice a temperature / comfort difference or impact on a heating / cooling bill by adding additional layers of foam board to these hatches. They usually occupy about 1-2% of the attic floor area and the rest of the area is air sealed and insulated to R-49.
So you make the home owner step over the 2 X 10 to get into the attic? And you raised the floor to get to near the top of the 2X10? What was that all about?
That was about creating an air tight, insulated box for the ladder to fold up into when the attic ladder is folded up. And the floor was raised to 1) create a storage platform for them and 2) to provide extra space for the additional insulation so that the attic could be insulated to R-49 from the original R-30 level. That's what that was all about. Their home has been dramatically and permanently improved from a comfort, energy efficiency, and usability level as a result.
We do all kinds of prep work in attics with existing blown in insulation all the time. It is definitely more work, but far from impossible. We heartily recommend that any work that needs to be done in the attic be accomplished Before attic insulation is upgraded.
Yes, and thank you for noticing. We built a raised storage pad around the hatch after it was built. Everything was fixed before hand. This is the end video: ua-cam.com/video/L-J5dkNfp_o/v-deo.html
Hi there, the duct that you're seeing here was an old bathroom exhaust hose. Generally however I would agree that having duct work in a conditioned is far from ideal. That said, the common issues associated with HVAC equipment in unfinished attic, ie duct leakage that is lost directly to the outside, and poorly insulated ducts that thermally conduct hot or cold to the attic, can largely be remedied by spray foaming the trunk line (seals and insulates the sheet metal part of the duct) and then burying the flex hose runs in blown insulation. Obviously the flex hose runs would be sealed to both the trunk line and the register boots in the ceiling with foam. I would still prefer to have the HVAC equipment inside the thermal envelope of the home/ structure. But this is a solution we use with regularity with solid results. Thanks! Andy
@@insulwiseenergycomfortsolu3293 Yeah nothing to do with your work. This hatch idea is brilliant! Ducts in attics are just a terrible design that the building code allows people to do 😞
@@crabkilla Yeah I'm in full agreement. We also see a lot of central returns going into 2 story new construction here which I also think is an awful building code allowance. You'll see one large return on the first floor and then one at the top of the stairs somewhere. It's just so lazy. We prefer a supply AND return duct in each room, and definitely with the supplies on the exterior walls and ideally beneath windows (weakest part of the thermal barrier). We've experienced numerous homes with the supplies on interior walls...and then guess what happens with each step taken toward the exterior walls and windows as the homeowner walks away from that supply register when it is cold outside? "My rooms are cold and I can't fix it without using space heaters..." Yup, and all for saving a few bucks on sheet metal supply ducts during the initial construction process. So dumb and shortsighted. Andy
@@insulwiseenergycomfortsolu3293 Spot on! They have all these energy codes that make people use higher SEER ratings and all these other "improvements" but they they do a sloppy design / install and have air conditioning equipment in a 140 degree attic. Better off using cheaper equipment and installing it correctly in a conditioned attic space. Matt Risinger on UA-cam has some awesome videos on this.
Look at the guy in the back wearing the respirator. That is awesome! However, I see all that dust / insulation particles, and if there were ever animals in the attic, there were zoonotic disease potentials. Just because you are shooting a video doesn't negate the need to protect you or anybody in the attic. Lead by example, you sir are not doing so. When you are not looking, the other workers will say "awe it will only be a minute. He does it. Why can't you eat?" A muffled voice is better than a lung disease/autoimmune situation that can be avoided.😢 That coughing is a sign that your lungs be affected by the particles in the air. Listen to your lungs through your coughing.
So nice to see a contractor who actually cares enough to understand all these small details add up to yield a meaningful difference, and thus a substantial improvement. Seems like everyone I have had to work on my house tells me "you're too picky" "Good enough" or my favourite "It's better than my house"
It's all about building science and getting it right! Thank you for the compliment and for commenting, and yes we try to be on our details (my staff think I'm a pain in the a@@ half the time ; )
Andy
Many thx for posting an excellent and realistic video. i.e. nothing in life is square !
Hi there thanks for the like! And you're right, it is rare that you encounter square corners in existing homes. But that's where the tools come in. Good luck with your project!
I keep watching random videos on attic and insulation stuff and yours are consistently some of the highest quality and most informative videos that come up on the matter. Thank you for the hard work!
Thank you for the compliment! I have been at this now for a while, and I think that the building science training that I've had combined with my desire to NOT have to go back to a customer's home to address a short coming in one of our solutions has led to the types of repairs that we do. I will be posting more videos soon! Good luck to you on your projects!
Totally agree. Ive been doing a lot of insulating in my attic and this channel has been one of the most helpful. Cut our winter heating bill in half after my first round of treatment!
Finally a usuable idea to insulate the opening. Convenient to go in and out as needed! Thank you!
Glad you liked it!
Watched this for general ideas for insulating attic access. Used it to make an insulated hatch panel for my access frame that has been covered with just a board for 3 years now. I incorporated weight (big scrap piece of 3/8" plexiglass), a handle (an extra galvanized handle I had lying around) on a piece of 1 1/2" polyiso board I had in the barn. I bought some really nice 1/2" ribbed rubber weatherstrip seal to set it on, and it really turned out great. Thanks for your very practical video!
Awesome to hear you were able to adapt it to your needs!
Andy
Thanks for this video! I made a hatch just like this in a stairwell that leads up into our attic with the foamboard sitting on moulding i installed all around. But your video showed me a couple ways to inprove it, particularly in terms of air tightness so thank you!
I'm so glad to hear that my video helped you improve your hatch! Keeping it air-tight is such a game changer. Great job on the installation!
Great idea. I spent a little more money and I attached two elbow arms to the foam board and two stepper motors so the foam lid lifts and then moves on the side with the push of a button.
Thanks, that's taking it to another level! Do you feel like it still seals well when it's all the way down?
Andy
Great video clearly detailing the steps involved.
Thanks, creating a durable, insulated attic hatch solution for a pull down ladder takes a few steps, but I try to lay them out in as coherent a way possible.
Andy
Thanks! Doing these things correctly requires a number of steps, at least if you want it to come out with a tight, durable air seal, insulation barrier, and be durable. This solution should last a lifetime for the majority of homeowners.
Thanks!
Andy
Thank you for sharing. This is definitely the best solution I’ve seen yet.
Thank you for saying so! I can confirm that the design has been battle tested here for well over a decade of hot summers and cold winters. Glad it helped!
Andy
Great vid. Did very similar, only difference I screwed handles into top weight wood.
Thanks for commenting..that should work well for you, cheers.
Well planned, and with great attention to detail- going to build me a hatch just like yours!
Thank you! This is a time proven design that's working in several thousand homes in Pittsburgh. I have yet to receive a call that one has failed, broken, etc.
Beautiful simple work.
Thank you! Hope that it helped.
Great tutorial video. Very well detailed. Thank you for doing this.
Hey there you're welcome and I appreciate the kind words! Our teams are building these in Pittsburgh on a weekly basis and we get great results. If you give it a go I hope that you get the results that you're looking for!
Andy
I like to make a sandwich to seal an attic opening by attaching drywall on the bottom, plywood in the middle and foam boar on top. The drywall has a high burn through time so I have that face the interior. This looks like a great job of air sealing an attic hatch.
Thanks Chuck. Your drywall idea with the drywall ignition barrier is good. Unfortunately we see a lot of those where the drywall deteriorates from getting knocked around a bit. The combination of air seal, insulation value, and durability is our primary concept. Hopefully if there's a house fire it won't be determined that our attic hatch was the straw that broke the camel's back ; )
Andy
Hi Chuck, your drywall sandwich method will work just fine the vast majority of the time. The only problems we see using drywall are when the hatch gets used regularly, or the drywall begins to get damaged. At that point the drywall starts chipping away around the edges and eventually air-leaks form around the perimeters. It's just not as durable as plywood or XPS rigid foam board.
Thanks!
Andy
Amazing job! Using this idea today, thanks!
Hey there, thanks for the shout out! I would like to create another video for doing this that's more condensed, but there's simply more than 2-3 steps required to get these to come out right. But if you're able to follow them, you will have an exceptionally durable, well sealed, and well insulated attic hatch for many years. We have now been building these for 15 years, and I have yet to have a single homeowner call and tell us that their hatch broke or no longer seals well.
Glad you found this helpful!
Andy
very very good and nice looks so good thnxs!
Thanks for the compliment, we certainly try to put content out there that's useful for you'all!
Andy
great video and job
Thanks so much for watching!
Great job
Thanks Deer Hunter! We definitely try ; )
Andy
3:14 Equal sides, this only makes a parallelogram. To make it a rectangle, the diagonals have to be equal, too.
Thanks for that tip ; )
It would be sensible to stick Gapotape around the perimeter of the kingspan foam board so there is a tight fit between it and the wooden frame, to prevent further cold, and hot, air getting down as far as the weather strip. You could also have a second larger layer so it, in turn, sits on the frame.
Hi, it looks like Gapotape is an English product, I have not seen it before in the States. I looked at it and it appears to be foil faced. I like the soft foam rubber of the weather stripping that we use combined with the weight that we add to the foam board to create a tight seal. I would not expect a smooth metallic surface versus a soft foam rubber one to improve the air seal here, but I could be wrong. We've been building insulated hatch enclosures around pull down ladders like this for about 15 years and have tested them with both infrared imaging and blower doors, and they perform quite well so long as the inner wooded lip that the foam board rests on is level all the way around.
Another component is that in many cases homeowners are using this multiple times a year to access their attics. By adding additional tapes, weather stripping, etc onto the lip that the hatch sits on, or onto the hatch itself, the odds of a foot hitting it, or the tape getting mashed while the hatch is being moved around goes up. And it is unlikely that most homeowners are going to identify that the seal was compromised and then "properly" repair it. This design, with the materials used, should stand up to decades of use.
Thanks!
Andy
I did a second layer of foamboard on top for my project and it works great, ended up shaped just like a fridge door. Works great, though ive not actually blow door tested like these guys have.
Helping plan for an old house new insulation - this video is perfect. Watching your others. Just an idea when you were dropping in your weather stripping, if you go corner to corner and fully overlap (two layers in corners) and cut through both layers at roughly a 45-degree the two stips will meet very tight and need in the corner. Any problem you can see doing that?
Hi there, thanks! I haven't tried that before, but it sounds like it could work very well. The only issue I can think of is that the weather stripping that we use is VERY sticky, and it tends to stick to itself so well that it's likely to tear when you try to peel the top layer off the bottom layer. But maybe I don't understand exactly how you plan to do this? Let me know how you make out, we're always looking to improve our own craft here!
Thanks,
Andy
1:50 the guy dancing lmao
Unscripted lol, but we do feel it's important to keep good vibes while doing this work ; )
i'm here for it :)
Great video helps me a lot. What weather stripping are you using around the perimeter? Things I have used in the past disintegrated.
We use this stuff. It's durable and covers almost the whole lip of the box. Thanks for watching!
www.homedepot.com/p/Frost-King-1-1-4-in-x-3-16-in-x-30-ft-Camper-Mounting-Tape-for-Trucks-V447H/100122697
Great video as are all your others! I wish I could do this but I have an HVAC flex duct that goes right over my hatch opening and there isn't enough slack in it to move it more than a few inches in any direction. Any ideas how to work around this?
Thank you! You could cut your flex duct, maneuver it to where you need it to be, and then patch in a new piece of new flex hose. A box of R-6 or R-8 rated flex duct runs $50-70. You may lose a small amount of duct velocity, but this would work. You'd just need to make sure that you patch in the new piece of flex hose properly.
Andy
@@insulwiseenergycomfortsolu3293 Thank you, this may be something to consider. I just had my attic air-sealed and insulation added but they couldn't install the hatch seal because of the duct and didn't offer an option to move it.
@shingdao7 Hmm..that's too bad. On Amazon I know they sell a zippered attic hatch solution that is insulated, flexible, and will provide a better air seal than what you likely have now. If you have limited space due to the duct my guess is that a solution like this can likely be made to work, that would be my best suggestion. Thank you for commenting and good luck with your project!
Andy
@@insulwiseenergycomfortsolu3293 @insulwiseenergycomfortsolu3293 Hello Andy. Just reverting to let you know I managed to complete the job fairly successfully! I was able to install the hatch wall by raising the flex duct enough to accommodate the 2x10s. The trickiest part, as you also noted in your video, is to get a perfect rectangle with the lips or cleats...my stairway opening was not a perfect rectangle to begin with so it was a challenge, but I managed to get it done. I opted to cut the foam board with a 9mm utility knife which was a much cleaner cut than I was getting with my circular saw. In any event, thought you'd like to know your video was indispensable. Using an infrared thermometer, I am now getting a 10 degree temp differential from the conditioned space hatch underside from the attic unconditioned space. Cheers! I've attached a link to the completed project. imgur.com/a/tx9X2Bc
Up here in Canada, the hatch has to have an insulation rating match the attic. In our case, that is R-50. Consequently, my hatch has 10" of foam board.
In a much colder climate it could make more sense. Here I don't believe our customers would ever see the return on that investment (it would raise the cost of the hatch solution dramatically). Thanks for commenting!
No ingles en español te dire que comenzado ver tus video y se que aplicaré
Thank you! Glad that I was able to help👍🏼
How can you manage to walk through that insulation all over if you got to fix something? Just wondering
You have to be careful (obviously), but we have to do it all the time. I'd recommend a cheap headlamp so your hands are free, a dust mask, and then either hold onto the roof rafters as you move through it, finding the joists with your feet and staying on them, and kick it back once done. Or use a basic broom to swish yourself a path and then swish it back into place when you're finished. It's not as difficult as it looks, but you do have to be careful and STAY on the JOISTS is the biggest thing.
Do you think I can use foam board insulation in a central Texas Attic for this same purpose? I'm concerned the high heat may be too much. Perhaps a thermal barrier would be necessary. Or a different solution altogether?
Yes, I think this type of foam board would hold up well. We use the green 2" thick pactiv brand, XPS board from Lowes. I wouldn't use a styrofoam or polyiso style foam board, I think you'd be much more likely to run into issues with those materials. Some of our attics here will hit 130-140 degrees. I don't think it's likely to be too much hotter than that even in TX in an attic.
@@insulwiseenergycomfortsolu3293 Thanks for the insight! I'm going to keep researching what my local stores have in stock and see how they measure up. Great design btw, I bet that guy goes in and out of his attic as often as he can 😄
At around 14:53, your partner in the background looked like he was making a Pot Light Cover. Rather than spending $16, it looks like you made your own at a fraction of the cost. Can you please advise what material you used to make it?
We typically use 1/2" foam insulation board and tape it together. We also make sure that the lights have LED's in them and if they do not we change them out with extra LED bulbs that all of our trucks carry. The boxes are large, at least 12" high and usually about 14-15" wide to accommodate the frame of the light and not allow for excessive heat build up. Some could find this contentious, but we have had no issues over the years with it. The newer LED lights put out very little heat, and the thermal shut off switch inside the light fixture would shut off the light if it got too hot, or cause it to blink on and off. We tape the box together using metallic HVAC tape. It is highly tacky and durable. We then use foam to seal the box to the attic floor.
@@insulwiseenergycomfortsolu3293 Thank you for the detailed response! I think your solution is a fraction of the cost and is a much better solution than off the shelf products costing much much more. 🙏
@@EverGrowSteve Thanks Steve! We've tried all of those solutions as well. The pre-made rock wool covers are nice, but they tear and get easily smashed in the back of a truck and are also far from air tight. I've pulled smoke through them with a blower door. The cardboard flip up ones, metal sided box ones, etc all leave a lot to be desired from our point of view. Also -- pot lights / recessed lights are rarely situated perfectly in attics like it shows in their advertisements. The lights are often directly against studs, up against roofs, etc and we went our route because we needed a solution that was adaptable to the wide variety of situations that we have to seal pot lights in. Glad this helped you!
Andy
where are the links for the items? I need the link for the weather strip.
Thanks.
The product is M-D Building Products Camper Seal Tape 1 1/4" in W x 30 ft Roll. It's about $7 on Amazon. I just put these details into the video description. Hope it helps!
Andy
you mentioned that if the opening was more like a trapezoid than a rectangle, it would be difficult to construct the lid. I am curious...would the same thing apply if the opening were shaped like a rhombus?
Haha...I hope I never have to deal with a rhombus shaped opening, but yes, that would be significantly more challenging.
Hello are these 2x10 boards? Is it difficult to get into the attic with the extra height of the new frame?
Yes they are 2x10's, but you may be able to get away with 2x8's. The hatch wall needs to be about 3" inches higher than the ladder is when it is folded up inside the attic. For some people it is more challenging yes, but for most it's not an issue.
Good idea but the r value is only as good as the wood 2x8 frame. I would have used foam board on the inside of the framing recessed at the top to create the shelf for the lid to sit and be insulated completely
Thanks for commenting, and you are correct. After the hatch was completed we built a storage pad around this hatch wall and then blew in cellulose insulation all around it so that the sides of the hatch were covered. If the hatch walls would not be covered up to the top with insulation, than covering them with foam board would definitely be the move.
Andy
Why am I always seeing this seeming random piles of mineral wool in the attics of US homes? Aren't they suppose to be layed out in consistent layer ?
Often the existing insulation is fairly well organized before we start. It looks like mess in this video because we have been lifting it everywhere and sealing the air leaks beneath it with foam.
All good if you have headroom
Thanks. We install these all the time in attics with tighter, trussed types of roof systems. But you do want to have at least a few feet of overhead room, correct.
What's the size of those planks? 1x6?
We generally use 2x10's to build the box that the ladder folds up into. But you don't necessarily have to. You need about 3" inches of clearance between the top of the ladder when it's folded up and the top of the hatch wall. For lower profile ladders a 2x8 can work. Hope this helped!
@insulwiseenergycomfortsolu3293 it sure did, I'm new to this world, but I am going to try this out. Thanks!
Where are the links to the weather stripping product that you used?
This is what we use. It's about a full 1" inch wide, which is better than the Frost King brand's version which is only about 2/3" of an inch wide. www.homedepot.com/p/M-D-Building-Products-30-ft-Gray-Foam-Tape-Camper-Seal-for-Camper-Shells-02352/202066511
I'm sure you can also find this on amazon
Andy
@@insulwiseenergycomfortsolu3293 Thank you very much! My local home improvement store didn't have anything wider than 1/4". Looks like I'll be going to Home Depot then.
This looks a lot more durable than what my home's previous owner made. He built a 4-sided box from foam board that has each side screwed together and it rested on fiberglass insulation. Between me and the contractors I've hired, the fiberglass insulation loosened from the plywood reduces the box's effectiveness. Also, I've noticed the box gets tossed to the side when someone has gone up into the attic that has weakened corner seams. I don't have a circular saw, but I have a hacksaw although I don't cut very straight.
Thanks! This solution has been pretty well tested here over the years. I don't like the zippered covers (weak R value and they leak air) and the box covers we see ALWAYS get beat up and degraded fairly quickly. If you're able to construct a hatch cover like this, it will work well for you for years.
Andy
Should stack more foam to get better r value
Yes, we sometimes do that and you will get better R-Value (R20 versus R10). The main reason that we don't is because of the added expense for the homeowner (that they typically don't want to incur), and with foam insulation at 2" you eliminate close to 90% of thermal conduction, so you begin to get substantial diminishing returns once you start to add more inches. What I will say is that when you go from a poorly air sealed, 1/4" thick wooden attic hatch to an air sealed hatch with a 2" inch layer of foam board for a hatch, you will see a MASSIVE positive impact.
Andy
stacking foam stacks moisture barriers wich traps moisture
Why not glue handles on instead of putting holes through the foam insulation? You can even make the handles out of foam. I use PVA glue to build with foam.
A lot of adhesives will degrade foam board, they kind of break it down. Loctite makes an adhesive specially designed for foam, but it takes 24 hours to cure. I also see sealants fail from time to time. Mechanically attaching the foam with screws and washers is quick, durable, and permanent. Penetrating the foam with a screw does not impact it in terms of reduced insulation value or air leakage, the wooden handle is sealed tight against the foam board.
Andy
A few screw holes through the foam are not going to make the slightest difference to the R valve of it. You would have to do the same if fixing it to the underside of rafters
Great video! Would the xps board be good for providing soundproofing insulation as well? My wife has an attic office and we have a similar hatch with fold down ladder. She doesn’t want to hear family noise while she’s on zoom meetings. What you recommend as an alternative material?
Hi there, the 2" inch thick XPS board would certainly knock it down a good bit. You could also double it up and make it 4" inches thick by adhering 2 pieces of it together. Either way you go, it will knock down a solid bit of the noise that is now coming through that hatch.
Andy
TimberHP Wood Fiber Board are available in 24" and 48" widths and use tongue and groove to connect to other boards.
Very well done, but only R10?
You could certainly double, triple, quadruple the R-Value, etc by adding more foam board. But that 2" inches of XPS foam board will eliminate about 90% of the temperature transfer coming through from the attic. We do this to keep costs down for our customers and in my own mother's home I used the exact same design. Except in extreme situations, I would be surprised if you could notice a temperature / comfort difference or impact on a heating / cooling bill by adding additional layers of foam board to these hatches. They usually occupy about 1-2% of the attic floor area and the rest of the area is air sealed and insulated to R-49.
👍
looks like a coffin 😊
Haha, well that is one way to look at it.
So you make the home owner step over the 2 X 10 to get into the attic? And you raised the floor to get to near the top of the 2X10? What was that all about?
That was about creating an air tight, insulated box for the ladder to fold up into when the attic ladder is folded up. And the floor was raised to 1) create a storage platform for them and 2) to provide extra space for the additional insulation so that the attic could be insulated to R-49 from the original R-30 level. That's what that was all about. Their home has been dramatically and permanently improved from a comfort, energy efficiency, and usability level as a result.
blown insulation is the worst type if you have to do work in the attic.
We do all kinds of prep work in attics with existing blown in insulation all the time. It is definitely more work, but far from impossible. We heartily recommend that any work that needs to be done in the attic be accomplished Before attic insulation is upgraded.
You said you were going to lay those boards flat. Thats not flat.
Yes, and thank you for noticing. We built a raised storage pad around the hatch after it was built. Everything was fixed before hand. This is the end video:
ua-cam.com/video/L-J5dkNfp_o/v-deo.html
The worst thing the world is having HVAC equipment and ducts in unconditioned attic.
Hi there, the duct that you're seeing here was an old bathroom exhaust hose. Generally however I would agree that having duct work in a conditioned is far from ideal. That said, the common issues associated with HVAC equipment in unfinished attic, ie duct leakage that is lost directly to the outside, and poorly insulated ducts that thermally conduct hot or cold to the attic, can largely be remedied by spray foaming the trunk line (seals and insulates the sheet metal part of the duct) and then burying the flex hose runs in blown insulation. Obviously the flex hose runs would be sealed to both the trunk line and the register boots in the ceiling with foam. I would still prefer to have the HVAC equipment inside the thermal envelope of the home/ structure. But this is a solution we use with regularity with solid results.
Thanks!
Andy
@@insulwiseenergycomfortsolu3293 Yeah nothing to do with your work. This hatch idea is brilliant!
Ducts in attics are just a terrible design that the building code allows people to do 😞
@@crabkilla Yeah I'm in full agreement. We also see a lot of central returns going into 2 story new construction here which I also think is an awful building code allowance. You'll see one large return on the first floor and then one at the top of the stairs somewhere. It's just so lazy. We prefer a supply AND return duct in each room, and definitely with the supplies on the exterior walls and ideally beneath windows (weakest part of the thermal barrier). We've experienced numerous homes with the supplies on interior walls...and then guess what happens with each step taken toward the exterior walls and windows as the homeowner walks away from that supply register when it is cold outside? "My rooms are cold and I can't fix it without using space heaters..." Yup, and all for saving a few bucks on sheet metal supply ducts during the initial construction process. So dumb and shortsighted.
Andy
@@insulwiseenergycomfortsolu3293 Spot on! They have all these energy codes that make people use higher SEER ratings and all these other "improvements" but they they do a sloppy design / install and have air conditioning equipment in a 140 degree attic. Better off using cheaper equipment and installing it correctly in a conditioned attic space.
Matt Risinger on UA-cam has some awesome videos on this.
A REAL reason to be wearing a dust mask.
When I'm not shooting video I absolutely do! Attic are nasty places and you don't want to be breathing that stuff.
Look at the guy in the back wearing the respirator. That is awesome! However, I see all that dust / insulation particles, and if there were ever animals in the attic, there were zoonotic disease potentials.
Just because you are shooting a video doesn't negate the need to protect you or anybody in the attic.
Lead by example, you sir are not doing so. When you are not looking, the other workers will say "awe it will only be a minute. He does it. Why can't you eat?"
A muffled voice is better than a lung disease/autoimmune situation that can be avoided.😢
That coughing is a sign that your lungs be affected by the particles in the air.
Listen to your lungs through your coughing.