The faction names make perfect sense in Chinese and faithful to history. In the early Three Kingdom era, all leaders of the factions were just local warlords, although some of them held a title in the royal court, or received one after they had established their holdings. Most of them were not nobles like those in Europe and their factions were never named after the land they held. Cao Pei and Liu Bei didn't declare their factions a kingdom until mid-to-late Three Kingdom era. Nonetheless, I understand your pain, because Europe's faction names are just as a gibberish to non-Europeans as Chinese names are to non-Chinese. The only difference is that it's probably the first time that you have a taste of the other side.
Agreed.. Also, when you play rome II, you're dealing with empires, not with civil war of small clans. Take Shogun II as an example: Their Faction names ir after their clan. Oda Nobunaga: Oda Takeda Nobuyoshi: Takeda Instead of "empire names", is just their "surname" (for europeans). So altho the OP thinks its strange, it just means that he is not familiarized with it and I dont beliave that is a valid point to say "it also sucks because of it".
@@jonaspete the names are mostly historically accurate, just the events sometimes romanticized to make it appealable to the common folks. There are some fictional names, but its like less 5% are fictional lol (but the story is like 1/5th fiction or its historically accurate but romanticized to make it seems cooler or romantic, like liubei's political marriage etc). The authors (yes multiple people) liked to make fictional events for a real person. and those are added like hundreds of year later in the song dynasty (well quite alot of them are based on folktales about that era too, which evolves throughout the time). But surprisingly total war 3 kingdoms is so historically accurate that a lot of their generic basic characters are actually historically accurate people (watch serious trivia to know more about this)
@@VMontemezzo Did you even listen to the review? He outright stated multiple times that his issue with it most likely stemmed from the fact that as a European, none of this was familiar to him. That combined with the scale - this is China after all - made it all too much for him to take in and enjoy as a setting. At the end he says that if you are either familiar with Chinese history or more interested in it than he is, then it's a must-play.
@@andrewadams8601 I know he said that. I just pointed it out that, as a reviwer, the fact that he doenst know the chinese history, does not makes the game "worse". It is also an oportunity to know better.
That’s not what I said at all, I just said the Chinese geography itself was the complete opposite of what I traditionally like, it being just lots of land essentially. The fact it’s not in Europe is not the issue :)
@@Johnlilly252 Dude! I’m not saying they could change it. I’m saying that’s why China exclusively is not a fitting place for a strategy game for me. Include Korea and Japan and we have another game entirely, with more water, islands, and some diversity in geography.
I got your point on the difficulty to find your way through so many factions and characters defined by their original name and Chinese ideograms. On the other hand, this respects perfectly the spirit of the original material, the book itself (try to read a chapter you will see right away what I mean.) I would say that slowly mastering the specific elements of a story and a game so uniquely exotic for westerners is part of the joy of discovery.
That’s completely true, and I specifically mentioned that this is just my personal experience due to my lack of knowledge and experience with the Chinese language and history. The pleasure of playing is probably ten fold if one is actually familiar with the stories!
@@AndysTake Yes, I would agree with you. Also, the issue that you mentioned with the Banner, it's actually due to the fact that they are all using Family names. So Liu Bei, Liu Biao etc, would all have the same Family name of Liu, making it even more confusing. It's been a while since I played TW:3K, but I immensely enjoyed the love and care put into the game since I'm both familiar with Chinese language and the rough outline of Romance of the Three Kingdoms. Not that it devalues your argument in any case, I get how this can be wildly confusing to someone who's not familiar with these kind of things.
Yes, I have more hours in 3K now than Rome 2. There is still aspects of the game I don't like, but there is far more good than bad. And for a richer experience, I recommend adding the Radious Mod.
@@AndysTake Try a run of Dynasty Warriors 8 XL (on steam, ignore DW9, just get the DW9 empires if you like the gameplay) . After a single run of dynasty warriors you will know all the characters and their traits, and have a blast playing Dynasty Warriors as those musou games are just too much fun.
Being Chinese I never had most of these issues you encountered thanks to my recognition of the Chinese characters, I do wish they had more unit variety though
let's be perfectly honest here. The interesting part of the "three kingdoms" era is the fall of the later han considering that the time where there is actually three kingdoms (Wei, Wu, and Shu-Han) is essentially just one gigantic stalemate
They better make 3K2 and adding Naval battle. Playing 3K giving me ROTK game from Koei vibe. I think CA doing a good job implement several mechanic from that game
I am from Asia who read Chinese history and can read the language. Now you can relate to my challenge when playing Western historical games such as Crusader King franchise :) This video was my first time seeing how this game works. I thought the UI is pretty amazing, putting key Chinese characters against the translated English ones (like banners and key characters). I can immediately pick out which fraction is which (yes, in the time of warlords, people followed their leaders, a named person). I actually love the more oriental looking tech tree rather than the Western style. This game looks interesting overall. I may pick up a copy when it is in a really good discount (not a fan of this genre but love the Chinese history). Cheers.
Glad you like the style! We all have different preferences, but I definitely think most things here look nice, definitely :) the UI is just way too cluttered for me.
Romance novel are absolutely amazing. Discovered them while working in Hong Kong and immediately fell in love. However Total War should have stayed with strictly historical titles.
@@MonteKristof They used both the romance of the three kingdoms and the records when creating the game. One of the characters/factions, Liu Chong, isn’t in the romance but is a real person from records of the era, just to give an example. Also if we’re talking historical then is anyone going to address the bomb throwing ninja squads in the room
This was my first Total war and after 3000 hours across all total wars games this is still my favorite. The gameplay and the graphics and everything about it is absolutely amazing
Fans of the Three Kingdoms period have been playing games in this universe since the 80’s. There’s also a rather pivotal work of literature which can help you understand the lore. Criticisms in this review largely stemmed from the reviewer’s ignorance of the period, and their inability to recognize foreign names of towns, officers, etc. Still worth watching as game mechanics are covered well.
Yeah I’m not even super familiar with ancient Chinese history but I can still very readily grasp what’s going on here and I think it’s actually awesome. Seeing his criticism of it all seem like things that are actually good so I’m gonna download it now lol
As well as his lack of basic geographic knowledge. Him wanting peninsulas and lands split by water in CHINA🤣 sometimes ignorance is bliss in this case its a whole comedy show.
@@romanpechorin4798 To be clear, he didn't want peninsulas and large lakes/oceans in China. He said that the landscape is how its supposed to be, but he personally doesn't find it conducive to a Total War game.
@@shadewolfe3131 maybe so, but the way he talks about the other historic marerial of this title, is just atrocious, so I guess i just perceived the whole review as incredibly illiterate and ignorant.
Your comment about China not being a good place for this game, because the map doesn't have good geographic features to help you orientate, is due to the artistic style they chose. If they picked a more realistic style like the previous games, you'd have seen that China's geographic features vary drastically. They did a disservice to China's geographic diversity and beauty when they designed this game's map.
That just might be it, Jeremy. Whether you felt what I did or not, I think indeed that, many of China’s rivers for example, are not really turned into choke points and defensive positions - just places you can easily run over. Idk. But yeah, I really feel that.
@@AndysTake Yeah, like the USA, China is massive; it has mountains, forest, deserts, planes, swamps, rivers and lakes. But they skipped over all that, and in the process lost the features that made each region of the country feel unique, as well as the strategic value of the terrain.
I disagree about the map. I love that the whole map is just one big landmass. It took me out of my eurocentric comfort zone. You have to be a lot more strategic in how you conquer and it's just so different from the way you have to think when playing a TW set in Europe. There are a lot of geographic barriers with choke points that make it easier to guard against invaders. You have to consider carefully which regions you're going to conquer and you have to plan in advance. This does increase the initial difficulty curve for someone who picks this up as their first TW title. The main problem with the big landmass is that the AI does not conquer strategically, but just what's nearest. Border gore can be intense. You also become emperor way too soon for my liking. The AI (esp. Lui Bei) will have disjointed lands and armies moving between them, which makes taking them out a chore when they're suddenly emperor and you haven't had the time to anchor yourself properly. When the AI does have a huge, contiguous territory, oh boy does it get good. The one landmass China forces you to move armies in proper fronts. It feels more like a real war, because if you do not coordinate your armies' movement, you are fucked. The most boring campaigns are the ones where the emperor seats spawn too close to one another and you can win the campaign in 10 turns once it happens. The best campaign I've had is one where the last emperor seat is literally the last city I had to conquer.
True, even for me this was the best total war experience ever, especially as you mentioned, when the ai has huge empires that tactical big war feeling is amazing, I’ve had a lot of fun in the endgame so the three kingdom period when they are relay just 3 big empires left and fighting for even small stripes of land
But Don't you feel like Total war is too eurocentric at this point. I was drawn back in because of the Chinese setting. Shogun Total war was my favorite and I was happy to see a return to the east. I can't imagine thinking Europes map is just a better map for strategy games, when these campaigns are based in history the actual landscape and culture birthed some of our species greatest tactical genius' like Sun Tzu for starters. On the other hand the map organization can be very messy and it is hard keeping up with the banners and names for me. I found myself panning around looking for my army not being able to tell apart whose army is whose and or even whose territory is whose.
You’re correct in that there’s plenty of room for non-European settings, I’m just saying that for me, the geographic scale and layout of Europe lends itself extremely well to strategy games - but also North Africa and the Middle East/Mediterranean. Shogun was great!
@@AndysTake Units: I agree with your Unit variety being an issue and I would even argue that having units tied to the general type is more of a hindrance. Purple and yellow Units are rarely used because of this restrictions and most of my combinations tend to be red+green+blue. Styled UI: I don't know about the Ui critiscism as I didn't have any issues when I first played it, but I will respect it as this could be a major issue to alot of people and that I might be unaware of it. Faction Location: Regarding finding where factions are, if I recall correctly, you could see the green lands, when you open up diplomacy and I think starting a convo with them will move you to the location they are at. Regardless, I think you have a fair point as people unaware of 3k might have a hard time. BUT I personally never encountered that issue despite playing the game with 0 knowledge of 3k at the beginning or china. In addition, your point regarding this could be a bias view from, I'm assuming, a european as I could also say an african, asian or american player might have a hard time finding out which euopean kingdom is located where in medieval and I now still personally tend to get a bit confuse around the location of medieval kingdoms and modern countries located in eastern europe. Geography: I personally don't feel like it's a fair comparison though since you were comparing the geography of a continent and the geography of a large country. Obviously, the continent map of the Mediterranean would have more variety compared a smaller map of a large country. Your comparison is no different from comparing england itself to the americas or comparing india to a map based on south east asia. The best and fairest comparison you could have done was probably japan and china. And then the only thing you compared about it relating to geography was the body of water and that because of the lack of water, you had a hard time navigating the place ( which is more of a personal critiscm than an objective one) Even so, China's own geography is still diverse. The two rivers acts as natural barriers as you can't just cross it directly and must go to a crossing to reach one side to the other. Heck, I think the last update made the capital county impossible to traverse except for two openings which were blocked by walled guard point(forgot what they were called). It also has plains, jungles, deserts and forests and they aren't for visuals either, they do add buff/debuffs in battle. On the other hand, you are right to criticise the lack of building variety as it looks more bland than for example medieval's. And one weaknest of 3k is that it has a non-existant naval battle, which is due to the fact that they are mostly land battles with one exception(Fall of Chi Bi) Faction Names: I think the criticism regarding the faction name is more grey. I think you are right that a non chinese/non 3k fan would have a hard time differentiating who is who. The Problem, however, is that these people's names are more easily recognisable in general(Non-fan + Fan), compared to calling them by titles(Duke of XX, Count of YY). So this might be the best solution despite it not being helpful to you and others. (Also related to the 200 faction critiscm:) Plus 3k is more of a war between dukes and counts compared to medieval which is a war between kingdoms. If total war medieval 3 suddenly introduces Dukes and counts and removes kingdoms, I think it would also be confusing. You could argue that shogun solved that issue by having surnames/clan names, but the problem is that there are alot of similar clan names and most of the time they aren't related at all. For example, Liu A and Liu B might have the same surname but they could be 0 blood relations. Liu A could be the descendant from the royal Liu, while Liu B is from the clan Liu located in county Z. (The Zhang brothers weren't even blood related too if I recall correctly) Also having 'Clan Liu fight Clan Liu' might be a worse solution compared to having 'Liu A fight Liu B' for non Basically, what I am saying is that personally, the way 3 kingdoms presented the faction names coud be the best way of differentiating people. Plus majority of the time, they are barely any succession so the point(and the faction who have successions are probably going to be wiped out one turn later anyways) where Liu A dies and Zhang B succeeds him and then the faction name change shouldn't be 'much' of an issue. Another point that is related to naming them by kingdoms is that: As stated this is one entire country and yes, in its history it has multiple kingdoms fighting to rule china(e.g. warring states), this is three kingdoms, and what's worse is that the appeal of three kingdoms is set before the creation of the three kingdoms, which is when there is officially only one kingdom, the Han. IN FACT, every warlord was fighting for the restoration of the kingdom of Han and if you declare to everyone that you were the kingdom of XXX, you became enemy no.1 to everyone and everyone has a casus belli to destroy you. That is why we have the ROMANCE story of Yuan Shu, who claimed to be the new emperor AKA new kingdom aka NOT HAN and everyone decided to kill him and he immediately gets wiped out by everyone. Therefore, you can't just say call them kingdom of XX and kingdom of YY because you couldn't. Also the kingdom name is based on their capital if I'm not wrong. So cao pi became the king of wei is because his capital was located at the county wei, not because he was 'feeling it P.s.: - Ancient china people used to have I think 2 or 3 names and most of the time, anything political was based on their family prestige and their social networking. It was why Yuan Shao was elected the leader of the coalition, why liu bei cheated sun quan out of a county because he was the uncle of the bed-ridden Liu Qi, the man who inherited those lands, and was claiming he was holding on to these lands for Liu Qi. - Families with different surnames might even be related to each other. One of Cao Cao's popular stories was involving him staying at his uncle house. The uncle's surname was Dong, the same surname of Dong Zhuo the tyrant.(Cao's Uncle Dong was probably NOT related to Dong Zhuo) - We also have the issues of blood brothers like liu bei, zhang fei and guan yu sworing an oath of brotherhood and thus being 'related'
The geography and UI complaints feel almost entirely subjectively biased. As someone who literally knew nothing about chinese geography, cities, or the three kingdoms era coming into the game, I can say that it truly rewards you the more time and effort you invest into not just the game, but the culture of China and its rich history. Over three years later & 1000+ hours later all the time I spent on the game and subsequent readings of China's culture and history has led to an immesnely fulfilling experience that is hard to quantify. The massive amount of characters and factions means that there's always usually something interesting to learn since so many of them have historical roots. As a fellow Aussie, we westerners tend to glorify the romans and will gladly "think about them once at least one a week" to delve deep into it's countless centuries of characters and history, always finding something so fascinating no matter how minute. This is essentially the same for the Chinese when it comes to the Three kingdoms era. It may not be a lot of peoples cup of tea, but the game really is a love letter to those willing to invest the time and effort. It's a fucking disgrace CA chose to abandon the game so close to completion.
Imagine hating on a game solely because it’s not in a place you know about. You can have your preferences and opinions but hating on a game and saying it’s not worth it because you’re ignorant is pretty shitty.
@@Duarte6440 not once in this video did I hate on this game, that’s why your media literacy is shit when that’s what you get from a carefully written and nuanced review with obvious personal opinions laid out and explained in detail, with disclaimers even! Also when did I say it wasn’t worth it if you like this setting?
Forget that question.. Three Kingdoms is literally the best Total War game ever made.. It has the best, most realistic, and most complete spy system, RPG system, customization system of options and characters, unit rosters, DIPLOMACY (the biggest plus), most immersive battles and stunning duels..etc As much as a like the previous historical Total War games they dont even come close to 3 Kingdoms. Just buy it, trust me.
It’s one of my favourite games. I just wish the developers weren’t cunts trying to ruin it. I’m actually glad they stopped fucking with it since they left it in a pretty good state content wise and can’t put in any more bugs they’re too lazy to fix and need the modding community to fix for them.
Sadly it's in fucking CHINA and has shitty fantasy elements. The last TW I bought was Attila and God knows that was the lastest good total war. The rest or are awful saga games or cancerous fantasy titles.
For the name part, this is something you will have a lot less trouble if you know a little bit of Chinese history or culture. For me a chinese, not only most of the names are well known, we also can distinguish the name of each faction by the banner(there is kanji written on the banner) instead of their current leader. And you cant give them dynasty name, since although having all these factions, only 3 of them declaire themselves king(wei, shu, wu. therefore 3 kingdoms). And the example you give, shuhan is techinically not really correct(context dependent). Liubei's faction is Han, he supports the former court and has the royal lineage of last dynasty. The reason he is called shuhan, is because his kingdom is mostly in shu(sichuang, southern part of china.) So lots of chinese players want to change the name based on where they declared themselves. Honestly, I am a bit salty here since a lot of aspects of the game really delights our Chinese player here. Like the black white ui style is shuimohua, ink painting. And the location really confuses us really little since, well, we been to most of those places and we know the geography. Much of your rant comes from a perspective of stepping our of your comfort zone the first time, playing a history related game based other than your culture, while we were doing those sort of things for quite a long time and still be able to appreciate that. It also reminds me of watching another game tourny held in china, I see lots of people in twitch complaining there is chinese broadcast in the background while all those other years there were always english broadcast in past tourneys. But all in all, good reviews, this game does present quite some flaws and the video made some good points.
@@hoksokhan6684 he isn't obliged to. He is a customer, he pays for the product. 3K clearly was made as an attempt to milk Chinese market with the setting popular in local culture. I assume, the attempt was successful. At the same time, not everyone is a fan of Ancient China and not everyone must be the one. The man expresses his opinion on the matter - and that's it.
@@mdokuch96 The thing is that most of the video guys rants were not about 3k as a game but rather about chinese history.I think 3 kingdoms is an amazing game and so is chinese history.
@@mdokuch96I think the biggest issue is that the factions aren't factions, they're characters. I got the grasp of Shogun 2's factions very quickly, they were short and sweet names like: Saga, Aizu, Oda, Tokugawa, etc. Even though, at the time, I knew nothing about Japan. But if the factions were named after each Daimyo at the time... it would have become instantly more esoteric. People can remember the name Western Rome in Attila. They're the West part of Rome. Even if you know nothing about Rome. But if they name the faction 'Caeser Whathisface McPerson' it becomes objectively harder to memorize the faction. Also what happens if your 3k main character dies? I know in older titles you can change history by having Julius Caesar die and be usurped by another general. But if the faction was named Julius Caesar... it'd be weird if he died. He is the faction.
Key words: "not familiar with Chinese geography, history or Romance of the Three Kingdoms" "UI/map/faction names doesn't look like other games" Dude you are truly champion of Sameium
No, the problem is exactly that the units and cities and factions and people and names all DO look the same. Because they're all Chinese. YOU are the champion of Sameium.
For me, this is the best TW game I played, and I played them all (Literally). Hero mechanics in Romance mode was something that refreshed (at least for me) the series immensely. Having three generals with retinues (each of them specialized in commanding certain units), items and well developed skills (and their interactions with one another) made this game something completely different from other TW games. I think that this game brought something that no other TW game ever had. First, each faction is in one way or another unique (and has its own mechanics), and as the game progresses and your faction grows, so your abilities and perks increase (through titles like duke, king etc). Also, 3K Total war, and its scripted and random events really made the game "feel alive". Unlike other TW war games (except for WH2), this was not just some "build, stack, kill" game, it really made me feel like I was a part of a story, not just some sandbox slaughter (battles are also awesome in 3KTW). Also, court mechanics, assignments, titles, councils and hero perks (and interaction between heroes, like "modest vs greedy"), really made my faction look alive, it wasn't just some stack of characters defined by stats. I was utterly disappointed when Troy Total War didn't "inherit" the hero mechanic from 3K TW, because that was the perfect setting for another "hero focused" TW game.
@@nicolausteslaus the settings isn’t what’s important it’s gameplay the reason why med2 trumps all say except shogun 2 because of its QOL changes is because it’s gameplay , fantastic through and through its just sad that CA can make a good total war anymore because they shove spreadsheeting shite down everyone’s throat if they do a med 3 it’ll be riddled with so much shit it’ll shame med2 like generals with 5k health etc. just go play manor lords when it releases
Even as someone who speaks/reads/writes Mandarin fluently I had helluva time keeping track of names/factions. Didn't help that the unit roster was just copy-paste between factions
The copy paste unit roster isn't necessarily the problem, I'd say. Shogun 2 had that also, virtually identical unis for every faction, but that game managed to be WAY more fun, with WAY more replayability, compared to 3K
@@AndysTake it has the best campaign, the best battles, the best government system, the best diplomacy, the best setting in contrast to the framework of total war, it has the best story, the best characters the list literally goes on. Honestly its only rival when it comes to creativity and polish is Warhammer 2.
@@DragonballBlack I’m glad you enjoy it that much! I think it too is great game mechanically, visually, etc. Just not my favourite time period/setting, but all the better for those who love it!
I like the "low fantasy" idea of leaders being juggernauts on the battlefield, and I find the idea of armies being split between people working for you who might betray you very interresting. So I might pick up this game.
I think many of the criticisms here are significantly mitigated if you're familiar with the source material. In this respect, three kingdoms succeeds quite well. The locations and characters accurately reflect the setup in the original novel. That said, the criticism has some validity. In particular, a lot could be done to make factions and characters more distinctive in the art department, especially because so many characters(including faction leaders) have generic portraits. Likewise, China has considerable geographical and cultural diversity. More could have been done to make different parts of the map geographically distinct.
If a game or a film demands you to go read a book first to understand, what the hell is going on, something is really wrong in the story department. Game is a separate peace of art. It either must work on its own, or shouldn't try to cover it's flaws behind "Go, read a book first" claim.
@@mdokuch96 When you play a Star Wars game, it assumes at the very least you've seen the original series. The more familiar you are with Star Wars, the more you get out of Star Wars related video games. Most Star Wars games are designed with Star Wars fans in mind, and assume a degree of familiarity that most Star Wars fans would have. Likewise, Rome Total War assumes a degree of familiarity with the ancient world. It doesn't explain who the Romans, Greeks and Carthaginians are. I don't see why Three Kingdoms should be any different then the above. There are around 2 billion people on earth who are familiar with the novel. If they can sell the game to that population, that is more than enough.
@@jasonquigley2633 and you got it in the last sentence. 3K was made to be sold on the Chinese market, period. Never was intended to be popular here in Europe, in the first place. I also assume that exactly 3K tested the waters for CA on the matter of adding Cathay in WH3 - for the sake of having bigger sales numbers thanks to China again. I have nothing against China in general, just not a fan of "local theatre" TW games with one culture of all factions and more or less same units. So I just accept the fact that 3K was never made for me, and that's normal.
@@mdokuch96 Shogun(1 and 2) was a similar title, and in fact aimed at a western audience (neither were translated to Japanese on release), and of course shogun is the origin of the series and a popular title. As with three kingdoms, you got more out of the game if you're familiar with the period, but you didn't need to be familiar with the period to enjoy it. Of course, you're entitled to your own taste, and it's not a requirement for every total war fan to like every total war title.
Three Kingdoms is a story about INDIVIDUALS building empires, and not about the empires themselves. So it's reasonable that the battle maps are centered on characters, and why the list of "factions" is so big. Actually, I think the full list of characters in the novel is way larger than 200, because there encyclopedias that readers have to use in order to keep track of the heroes and characters who competed to be emperor (it's sort of like Game of Thrones). I can't comment on the actual game play, but it makes total sense that this game is character / hero focused. The nature of the total war series is that it allow players to be immersed in certain cultures, and if you're not interested in certain cultures then it also makes sense you don't enjoy the game play that much.
It’s not just that either, the game also adds characters from the records of the era the novel doesn’t even mention. I’m pretty sure Liu Chung is never mentioned in the novel but he did exist during the time as a local governor (I’m pretty sure he’s the emperor’s uncle) and has a campaign in the game.
I played dynasty warriors and rotk before this game was even an idea, so i was familiar with the setting and characters. It’s just a shame they cut support for it prematurely.
I love the whole larger than life feelings you get with the little bit of fantasy sprinkled in. They always depict these generals especially the generals and warlords of ancient chine starting with the unification under China with the Qin dynasty to the three kingdoms era. They also did put in a mode to also play more historically so if you don't like the fantasy/demi-god mode just play that mode and enjoy the great game they put out but that's just how I feel
I'm a historical nerd but dangit, the duels and stories I make along the way playing romance mode is so fun. Like how one coward general left the duel with me earlier, and in revenge my trebuchet landed a direct hit on him. Thus, he was crushed by a boulder for running away!
I get the game few months ago, I really enjoying it. I play in record mod, with the lighting from Romance, I am big fan of the diplomacy, the talks between general during battles etc..
I would say they should've done the Spring and Autumn period to Warring State period in China since there's a lots of country and different units that don't have the same culture with different writing and banner that are closer to icons.
1:25 casually forgets to mention Shogun, 2:15 oh, NVM you just completely forgot about Shogun 2:10 romance and records mode change how the map looks, it looks more realistic in records 4:15 sounds like you don’t know how to adapt to new and unfamiliar circumstances 4:40 no disagreement 6:40 This sounds like a terrible idea that causes so many problems such as harming the bandit factions (cities can debuff bandits if they’re too big) and potentially killing this game’s unique ability to let you play tall 8:00 as many people have mentioned, this is because these aren’t distinct nations, these are people that all identify themselves as being part of the nation of China and are just lords part of that nation (except the Nanman), even when they form dynasties that just means they’re saying they’re the new imperial family, not that they’re a new nation. 15:47 on that topic, units, generals, and buildings are color coded to match with Chinese philosophy, I believe it’s blue is water, green is wood, red is fire, yellow is gold, and grey is iron. Final thoughts: it feels like your entire criticism of the game centers around the fact it isn’t set in Europe. Almost the entire video you kept sucking off that generic Europe+North Africa+West Asia map almost every game uses. It feels like you’re just unwilling to accept something different and have to find any excuse you can to criticize it.
3K is actually what I always wanted after I saw how they implemented lords in warhammer 1, a mixture of fantasy and history really is the go to way to make a three kingdom game, sadly they ended the support prematurely but at least they try. I wish when they decide to make medivial 3 they could include the entire europe-asia continent because during the Mongolian invasion period Song and Jin dynasty in China is also battling the Mongols in the east so that would be very cool to include that part of the world as well
I wouldn't mind seeing the Hero system in more games. Not just Troy and 3K, but Alexander, Persian Empire x Greece, 100 Year War, Vikings sagas, founding of Rome, etcetera. I love the optional ability to play this epic Hero of a nation or peoples and take on entire units like their mythological adaptations.
@@morginstjarna Arthurian legend tends to get slept on, I genuinely think it would have been more interesting to have gotten something like total war Avalon then Thrones of Britannia
I'm also in that camp who thought it was a great game that was primarily hampered by my complete lack of knowledge about the history in question. Especially with regard to your note about the map, I wish regions or cities had more contrast so that people who are struggling to remember place names would have another way to latch onto "where am I?" It's a lovely map though On the UI - the specific point I resonated with was the tech tree. It is beautiful! and... useless... well, not useless, but it was a struggle to stay oriented as to where any specialty path was or how or why they might coordinate. The other UI elements didn't bug me too much. I may need to give it another couple weeks of attention as I prepare my soul for Warhammer III
China is a massive country with lots of different landscapes, it would be nicer if the emphasised this, for example by making the mountains of shanxi and the south bigger and more distinct, and also making cities less alike and adding more unique buildings. I would love if they added dlc's of other periods of division in chinese history, or finally did a shogun 3 crossover where you can play as ming, korea or a japanese warlord or even the manchu
3k is pretty much the most innovate total war yet the most stagnating. It represents a ton of new ideas whose elements would have been carried onto the Warhammer series, and certainly for the new historical total wars. The stagnation parts are the battles, elements of the UI and the historical fantasy mode which has been a contention. 3K was very much an experiment for what is going to happen for the next total wars and especially the next historical total war which is needed right now to revive the historical fanbase (Hey I love fantasy, but it feels like it's one sided and CA needs to return to historical. Do fantasy CA that's great, but don't forget your core audience which made the total war fanbase in the first place).
I haven't played troy but wasn't that game supposed to be a way to tide over historical fans? I know it has the mythological side but that wasn't in launch so I always saw the game as them saying "we're working on the next historical title but its going to take time."
@@LordFinai first of all, Troy was a "saga" game - meaning, this is not big full-scale TW but some local story on the local theatre with mostly copypaste factions (to a degree, ofc).
@@mdokuch96 my point wasn’t that it was the next historical title but that it’s supposed to give historical fans something while they wait for the next real historical release, sorry if I worded it in a confusing way before
Let's see your points Geography: totally agree, same reason why I don't like playing the germany-USSR fight in HOI4. As for the rest, part of the issue I think is the lack of familiarity as a westerner (to some extend it is even true for the geography I guess) leading to the feeling of "all the same" it leads to. That being said it might simply be that it really is same old same old, as I feel that for quite a few total war titles (thrones of britannia for example)
Total War Three Kingdoms Records mode is the best historical tw for me, it has a lot of depth and cool mechanics than any other historical tw. TW 3K records mode is nothing less of historical total war, those people saying that 3k records mode is very fantasy is very untrue. 3K Chinese-styled UI, visuals, music etc are not worse or better than the vanilla total war, it is just different and I like it better than the western style on historical total war. I personally strongly disagree with the majority of the rants here
One can still criticize Shogun 2 for the same thing, and it has. But a slight difference is that in Shogun 2, so many of the units were awesome flipping samurai units with awesome armour and weapons. Here, not so much.
@@AndysTake But the same goes for 3K, yeah all the peasant militia look the same, just as ashigaru did in S2, but then you get your elite units (which I believe there a more than in S2) which all look stunning. Could just be a bias, I've always loved any ancient Asian aesthetic and I prefer a civil war setting in total war games.
Honestly, going from Britannia and Rome 2, to Three Kingdoms and now the Warhammer 3, Three Kingdoms has the clearest UI for me. Especially compared to Warhammer
I am for one glad they didn't dumb it down especially for gen Z people who can't even be bothered to google information if they can't even be bothered to read books on the subject. You know there are English BOOKS if you don't know anything about the history. I've been a Total War fan since 2000 when they came out with TW Shogun 1. Shogun 1 is Japan, another far eastern culture. They actually didn't depart from the origins but rather they returned to their roots. I just agree with your UI criticisms and I must add the long loading times are terrible.
The warring states in China would a be great as I would love to unify the land as Qin or maybe you could be Zhao as alternate history. The battle of changing as a historic battle should hopefully be played as historic battle arguably ones of the most important and largest battles in Chinese history.
The irony of the time period is that the three kingdoms period (year 220-280) itself is the 'lamest' part, with the novel romance of three kingdoms largely glossed over the history post wuzhang plains (year 234) and therefore, so did the adaptations. But then again, if they bothered covering something as obscure as eight princes rebellion, i cant see why they dont bother with three kingdoms start date
One missing element from this game that I felt was unfortunate was how in the story, characters were not always fixed to their plot of land. They were made governors of a region only to get chased out or promoted/reassigned to another region. We see this happen to liu bei several times in the novel iirc. The tw game tried to simulate this (maybe, I guess) by having defeated faction’s characters go into the recruitable pool or something, so they weren’t gone forever unless specifically executed or killed in battle. But it’s not quite the same thing as seeing liu bei pop up here and there like a prairie dog, or lu bu being chased out of one region only to take over somewhere else.
I love this game. Sure the ui can be confusing especially in the late game when you have alot of characters. I dont have the same problem with faction identification, probably beacuse my greed for territory but also largely beacuse of character portraits. And the battles are amazing. Both the infantry, but maybe more the cavalry charges are amazing.
The UI is so much better and much simpler to used tbh. Idk what you're talking about. I much rather they use the art style for that time period and the culture that simplifies the looks then having everything with realistic style that makes it harder to read.
i did have alot of problems identifying all the different minor factions as well at the beginning its a bit confusing for us plebs but to be fair i think (i cant speak for every1) total war three kingdoms is the best total war game so far its easily the most polished its my absolute favorite im just sad that they did not continue releasing dlcs for the game but i think they are working on a total war three kingdoms 2 which just shows the popularity of the game, i had the most fun playing three kingdoms to be fair i had no idea i would enjoy it this much
This is easily one of the best total wars ever. The issues it suffers from is naming convention which confused things. It makes it hard for us in the west to keep track of characters and get to love the game. It's also more complex so will put off your average person. It gives back what you put in so is worth it for people who want to pit some effort in and be rewarded. It has some of the best graphic and best diplomacy. The map also works so well with the total war engine as the ai can move around and fight so well it's a perfect map. The ai can't cope with total war europe maps. Rome 2 total war is likely THE WORST total war game ever. The fact you state it as a good game... No. The factions in total war are families so disappear rapidly. You need to concentrate only on those near you if you find it confusing.
people who plays this game on records mode just dont get it. this is not supposed to be historical accurate. its based on a novel, like king arthur but in the east. you get the full experience only playing the romance mode where you can level up your favorite characters and skill them uniquely like in diablo and other rpgs. this game is total war + rpg.
Guys like us that play the Romance of the three kingdom games pretty much know every character in the game. I've been playing RTK games for more than 30 years. So we are the target market for this game
i find it funny you are talking about how it is set in Asia, a far departure from Europe... bro you know that the first Total War ever made was in Japan right?
gotta stop u right there... this is based on history, its not fantastical... and the amount of warlords available is actually based on tt historical record... tt being said... it feels abit clunky with tw3k... but it has quite a few innovative features compared to prev TW...I think CA wanted to compete with Koei with this release...
"I liked it but stopped playing" sums up my 3K experience. I'm not entirely sure why, I love the setting and characters (I grew up playing Dynasty Warriors, lol), The "accuracy" appeals to me, I enjoy the art style and graphics... But something just feels off. There's a lot to manage, which definitely helps it feel harder to dive in, but then again, I greatly enjoy Medieval 2. The battles are usually absurdly fast and not all that difficult. The "time period" campaign mechanics are also off putting. It's a cool idea- I just don't think they pulled it off quite right. And being greeted with a closed wall of characters behind DLC always bugs me. Also, yeah, the UI is really, *really* bad and hard to follow. The style is nice, but its confusing. Maybe I just need more time in the game. Maybe "overwhelming" or "off-putting" is a better way to put it.
The algorithm of the Internet has taken me here, right in time for the annual commemoration of the abrupt end of game development and up to what the totalwar redditors call a revival (thanks to the seasonal sales) Oh, and why factions change their faction names when their leaders die or are in regencies is because that’s what Chinese warlords are: they have to earn their fiefs from their nominal Han emperors (like when Cao Cao is given the titles Duke and then King of Wei, which was Yuan Shao’s former power base; or of Yuan Shao’s faction title Duke/King of Song out of Cao Cao’s power base if the Guandu campaign goes wrong for the Caos)
I completly lost interest in 3K after they sent it out to pasture. Find it hard to trust CA again, and I’m not going to look into WH3 untill after reviews are out. Great video as always Andy.
Thank you so much, Richard! Does that mean you initially liked the game? I see so many people that were hit hard from the news of the game’s attention ending, did it really feel like it came so soon? Wasn’t it a matter of two years?
I've never undertood the complaints of 3k that it's fantasy and not historical...the NOVEL IS NOT HISTORICALLY ACCURATE, IT'S LIKE A FANTASY NOVEL DESCRIBING THE HISTORCIAL EVENTS OF WHAT HAPPENED THEREFORE IF YOU FIND champions slaughtering entire armies, shouting between leaders etc, that's because it WAS adapted from the novel. There are realistic versions too, but for me, the realism aspect is the most realistic depiction of 3k. Could never understand this complaint.
You really missed the mark when looking at the battles. Melee is completely overshadowed by cavalry and missile units in battles, which quickly disintegrate into scattered blobs. The battle experience amounts to chasing units all over the place. Stat modifiers determine what happens rather than factors such as unit fatigue, physics and terrain. I'm speaking about Records mode.
let not forget the dynamic terrain effect, what i learn form 3k is move slowly in snow and rain, force the enemy to move thought water to get to you and never used fire arrow or fire bomb inside a forest. i love it luring the ai enemy army in the forest with 1 or 2 cav unit and used fire arrow to start a wildfire and camp outside the forest to finished up any enemy that make thought
The UI and the map just became "clusters" in a way that I always lost myself on the map. In menues ect. Couldn't find stuff I know I've seen before or even lost what city was attacked a few rounds ago. Somehow everything just blends into one thing in a bad way
Great review! Bear in mind that although you point out that a ton of names were unfamiliar and many factions are beginning to emerge, the best example I can give is the Crisis of the Third century and the crisis after Commodus's era. There were tons of legions declaring many numerous emperors just like in 3k which is essentially the breaking of the Han Empire. The Romans too had many complicated and long names that try to ask anyone in real life to pronounce and they wouldn't (Maybe Italians) know which Emperor was trying to succeed which. To long term fans of the period, they will. To others, they won't. What CA should have done is used the Shogun 2 system of simplicity of representing the other factions in-game. They did do this to a degree, but the names can be confusing granted. There should have been more input in this manner. The colour scheme was an odd choice since it mixed realism and saturated colours together - which didn't make sense. One only needs to examine how Koei represents the period in a different way. The other aspect is you ask is China right for total war? You bring up the issue of unfamiliar names, geographical density and location. That question could also be perfectly and legitimately asked for India and South-East Asia. Will players play those titles because they are familiar with that region? Or will they not? Are the periods right for that setting despite the fact hundreds and thousands of battles were waged in India/Korea/South East Asia for decades in that matter? Why does Paradox games cover the whole world then? Why can they afford to show the world if Total War isn't doing it right? I think total war has a problem with smaller settings in general and it's a paradox. Shogun 2 is the most easily popular period because of consistent western marketing of Japanese culture (as compared to the non-existent one in India, or even Korea for that matter, and it doesn't add Korea or China, YET it's still a much loved game._ Therefore, western players can recognise that period because samurai and I love it too. Yet we look at Thrones of Britannia, that didn't work. Troy sadly didn't work either (A very big mistake by not expanding to the full Bronze Age, instead giving us a DLC of a Lord from Ethoipia. They could have worked on this game for 2-3 years and given us more factions to play from. A complete and regretful waste of this fantastic era and I am saddened by it.) The Kingdoms expansion was part of the base game of Med 2 but they were separate campaigns in a sense. This leads to the next point: Constricting China to China only. No Korea, no playable South-East Asia. Not even India for that matter. Bear in mind that would have made the game more replayable because you have a gigantic map and you'd be able to conquer from wherever you wanted. There are various Medieval II mods in China that showcase the entire Chinese landmass, Japan and Korea. This would have been much better as a choice. I'm not a fan that CA chooses a unique Asian setting like China, and constricts it to one landmass and I don't want the same with an India setting for that matter. India has had a lot of cultural influence in South-East Asia which its importance should not be under-estimated historically. But, historical accuracy and all that plays a factor too. If Europe can be afforded all the landmass it has and all the way to India, then it sure can do the same with China, Japan and Korea etc. That what makes total war fun. Not smaller settings. BIG.
I agree with you, and you’re so correct - Shogun does well because Samurai and the myth of them, indeed, Japan itself is so popular in the West (media, culture, history etc), and so it’s an easy sell. I think it would have been AWESOME to have China, but include South Korea and Japan. This would have given us that sense of scope including sea and islands, and that flexibility which isn’t afforded to a pure massive landmass. I SO wish we had gotten Egypt/Anatolia/Mesopotamia included in Troy… would’ve been so fricking awesome.
@@AndysTake Let's assume that Troy's not a great setting for terms of realism. Okay fine. If I were director at that game, I would have deliberately made the Mythos Mode a FLC for a year before putting it onto sale for £10-15. In the meanwhile, I would have said: Okay we're transforming this saga title into a major fantasy historical title. How? We simply embrace the mythos, expand the map, and add different cultures, new cities and such. Essentially we would have an Age of Mythology Total War that could be selling very well. Instead, the abandonment of Troy means no more Bronze Age titles because it has confirmed to CA that its not a very popular setting which is far from the case. If Age of Mythology is still being played and people still want a remaster, doesn't make sense to abandon what could have become a very lucrative product. But this is one person, one gamer's opinion. I don't work at CA, and this would be a heck of a job trying to convince higher ups to keep investing in the game etc. It's not an easy job and I respect the devs for making Troy what it needed to be in the first place! Just do that, check the Shandong Mod in Med 2 on Modb and you will understand exactly what I'm talking about. Therre's an Imjin war mod as well! Plenty of stuff to be done here on that matter. I made a video discussing that - but when I heard Troy was finished, it really made me sad. We need those nations, not one DLC! Otherwise that really isn't doing the Bronze Age justice. I mean people want an Alexander saga so that includes the conquest of the Persian Empire, so let's include that all the way to India. Yet for Troy, nah its a saga title, lets keep it small.....I just...*smh*
@@AndysTake The landmass of this game was very bog-heavy so it often felt a bit un-natural in terms of expansion. Adding Japan/Korea as you rightly point out, would have been a great move at least. The DLCs for this game should have gone Shogun 2 style. Avoid Eight Princes, include some of the more popular periods in history etc. Shogun 2 has the Rise of the Samurai to its fall. Something could have been done similar to this for 3k.
I like Chinese history and the Three Kingdoms era. I desperately wanted to love this game but I just grow bored of it quickly:/ The campaign map is beautiful and atmospheric and all the character interactions is great on paper but for me it got tedious over time, yet I like such things in other games. Despite having a lot of depth and the best diplomacy in maybe any TW game, somehow this game feel very linear and lack the sandbox feel or open endedness of Rome or Medieval 2 which I liked so much. For me TW has always had an historical backdrop but the world is a blank canvas for you to create your own history from a set date or period. This is true for Three Kingdoms in theory but the more established and detailed setting with spesific characters removed those elements from the game for me. Also I didn't like the battles. They feel very arcady so I always skip them. In the end the game was fun enough but felt like a lesser version of a Paradox game for me. I like the campaign part of Three Kingdoms but there are other games out there souly focusing on that aspect that does a better job. There is nothing inherently wrong with Three Kingdoms or any modern TW title. They have just shifted from the older formula and are not for me:) I find more of that older TW spirit I like in games like Crusader Kings 3 and hopefully Knights of Honor 2 when it finally releases despite being very different games from TW in many ways.
The main problem with Three Kingdoms is that many of dynasties were sea fairing (on the East Coast where till this day China’s biggest population is). One of the biggest historic sea battles took place at that time (Red Cliff). Without ships on rivers or sea, China becomes as you say; mostly an open field. Fighting to capture islands like Hainan, Taiwan etc could have been interesting and made it more like taking Shikoku in Shogun 2. Them cutting sea-warfare and making it way too fantasy driven is why I held off on it.
Three Kingdoms ear in China is actually super fascinating, it's basically Game of Thrones without the dragons and magic and fantasy, but equally if not larger than life characters and more political backstabbing, intrigues, mind games and military strategies than any other work of fiction.
if they made a total war about only asia for example and europeans to appear like europeans in the shogun 2 like special units or trade it will be fine , imagine India, persia or otoman empire (depends on the timeline) mongol empire ,south asia and japan, it will be interesting to play a total war asia game .
That would’ve been amazing! Would love a Total War Asia stretching from the Ottoman Empire to Japan, possibly with emerging European invasions as opposed to the mongol invasions in Medieval II
ottomans without including europe would suck major ass, their whole thing was to be the successor of rome (their ambitions at least) hence the former sultanate of rum(rome) and mehmed the conqueror titling himself kaysar-i rum
This is exactly the kind of review I'd like for every game. The way you tell us what you like and what you don't, but still keeping it fair. I especially appreciate the way you recommend to wait for a sale OR don't buy at all! This is what makes me feel this is not a paid review like so many other reviewers, who tend to shy away from not recommending something for some reason, or you get the feeling that they're sneakily trying to get you to buy it anyway. Honest reviews is what I look for when I'm interested in a game, and that's what I got. Keep it up!
It is funny how someone reviews something as negative while someone else reviews same thing as hilight of the game. For me naming the factions after the leader, which each have their own traits and personality that affects the relationship with said faction is the best part of Three Kingdoms. Instead of dealing with concept of nation which often lack personality, you are dealing with leader of the nation. It gives so much more meaning to diplomatic relationships for me. Some leaders are likable, some are just bricks. Oh Jing Choa betreayed me? I take that personally! Time to hunt his head and never trust him again! His successor seems like a good lad tho! Maybe I can later rekindle our friendship with them.
Honestly, this is the best game for new players to total war. Whether veteran total war players like it as much as Rome 2 or shogun 2 etc, if anyone is interested in this type of game but hasn't ever played one, three kingdoms is the best.
As someone who grew up in China. And grew up playing three kingdoms total war medieval 2 Chinese mod back in China. This was quite such a gift. But nothing will ever top that medieval 2 three kingdom mod. Or the original Rome total war Three kingdom mod. Those were pure gold. With rivers and mountains and choke point castles. It was magnificent.
I don’t believe any westerners had heard of the games I talked about because I can’t even find footage of those games on UA-cam. But hear me out. Imagine medieval 2 and Rome 1. Exact same mechanics. But it is three kingdom China. It was beautiful.
Cheers for the vids Andy, in love your insight into total war. One of my other interests is economics and finance, and I thought it would be amazing if global finance mechanics could be introduced to a total war game. E.g. A Medieval 3 where you could take loans from another faction (like The Medici of Florence) to build up your army and infrastructure, but if you default on the repayments you risk being declared war on and invaded by your creditor (e.g. Florence in this example) or by their allies.
Great video, nice review! I just got Xbox Game Pass and was checking to see if this is worth playing. Chinese person here, the more you talked about the cons of the game, the more I appreciate it and want to play it, lol. Because the cons you mentioned are exactly how the history was and how it played out and such. So I guess the devs really did their homework and is trying their best to represent it. Great stuff.
I have watched a good bit of your content and I appreciate you and your opinion. I may agree or disagree at times, but I always respect you. Thanks for the awesome content and sub earned sir!
So you essentially possess an arbitrary unwillingness to learn about or appreciate Chinese history on its own merits. That's your loss, but don't try to pass that off as any form of valuable insight or valid criticism. No matter how hard you try to find subjective nitpicks with its UI (which is amazing IMO), TW3K is the best historical Total War yet.
I'm about to age myself, but for someone who has played the first Romance of the Three Kingdom games from Koei on NES (you kids can check in a museum for what that is 😏), Total War ROT3K is more than a worthy successor to Three Kingdom based games.... Everything from battles, to diplomacy, it is near perfect... Though I wish they would bling out the named characters a bit more, so they would stand out..... Chalk it up to playing Dynasty Warriors too much too....
I think this game has the most to offer in any historical total war game. The battles, the duels, the logistics, mustering, spies, negotiating, etc. So many quality of life improvements in this game. To me, 3k is the BEST total war game out there. Warhammer is a solid second place, to me. I love Warhammer. I grew up on it. But I got into TW via historical titles. Warhammer is a fantastic adoption into the TW genre, don't get me wrong. 3k is amazing and that's coming from someone who had their doubts when the game was announced. I certainly understand the issue with the geography of China. But understanding that there aren't bodies of water separating people from one another might influence your understanding of why ancient China was the way it was. There's nothing separating you from your "enemy." I also wasn't a massive fan of the faction name changing with the name of its leader. That is confusing but I mean... you usually referred to factions as dynasties or as families. Just like you'd refer to Athenians vs Spartans. Or how you would separate the germanic tribes of Germania. At least that's how I understood it.
As a Dynasty warriors fan who played the series from Dynasty warriors 2 all the way to Samurai warriors 4 & Warriors Orochi 3 but also a total war fan who played 4 of the latest totalwar games (beside Rome Totalwar 1 & TW Shogan2) i was so happy they released Three Kingdoms Totalwar, honestly after Atilla which is my all time favorite Total war game, i fell in love with TW3K because how accurate it resembled the Legend of the Three kingdoms of china ,i would say my three most favourite TW games are Attila, Shogan2 & TW3K
Three Kingdoms Total War was perhaps the last total war game gearing towards historical authenticity (Because The Romance of the 3 Kingdoms fictional novel was also based on historical Records as well), everything else after 3KTW will be either half history or full fantasy. I doubt CA will ever make Medieval 3. Now, I would rather prefer them to make a Sci Fi Total War game inspired by Alpha Centauri and Civilisation Beyond Earth game by Feraxis.
I really enjoyed Total War 3 kingdoms. I am really excited for the sequel they are working on. I am really excited to learn a bit more of Chinese history while playing the game.
As someone that absolutely loves the game, i agree with what you think. This game is a must play for anyone that likes three kingdom games, or want to discover the time period. But people that don't enjoy that time period, or don't care, can easily skip it to instead play Rome II attila or shogun II
3K is a game that's "character-focused" instead of "nation-focused". It's better compared to Rome 2 campaign packs like "Empire Divided" or "Imperator Augustus", which builds off of recognizable names like Augustus, Mark Anthony, Pompey, etc. Since the main inspiration for the game is the semi-historical epic novel "Romance of the Three Kingdoms", with its leviathan number of characters and "Game of Thrones-like" intrigues and back and forth plot development, your appreciation of the game is really let down by your lack of understanding of the historical period and novel. But your POV is also very valid and probably a big reason why the game never really picked up steam (heh) with Western audiences. Also a further point I just noticed while writing this comment was how much our current geo-political understanding of the world is shaped by the concept of "nation-states" - a concept that wasn't really a real thing until the late-18th century. Perhaps in this way, 3K's character driven diplomacy was incidentally more representative of history. Just an interesting observation.
Thank you so much for the comment! And you’re 100% correct. Like I said in the video, and which you mentioned, this is my POV, and bears the lack of experience with ROTK mythology and history. At the same time, you are correct in that the concept of the nation state is new, however, we have plenty of examples of states being the name of countries in the past, like Rome, Persia etc, OR dynasty names taken that role, which it would eventually do in China (Ming etc). However, I am not disputing this, only saying that, from a gameplay perspective, it is much easier and more convenient to use state names than character names for example, at least in my view :)
@@AndysTake I think it's because of how TW in the past has streamlined how a faction "functions." Like it's a unitary state, and you command as the head executive with generals to move about and paint the map with your colors. Generic named faction leaders come and go, but the State endures and blobs its way with little other interaction other than war. You derive satisfaction in recreating old events or overhaul it by repainting the map in your faction colors. With a character-focused TW, your state is a vehicle for that character's ambition to claim the Mandate of Heaven (tm), his particular actions even have ramifications within the faction, like the guanxi campaign mechanic (oath bros and rivals), campaign dillemas, and the unique campaign mechanics tailored from his/her historical background. Whilst in nation-focused, the unique flavor was due to what the nation-state was known for. You suddenly start to care that the three generals on your one army stack have become oath brothers and have passive buffs from coordinating their actions. You also start to notice characters have their own modus, derived the accounts, of them being sneaks or backstabbers. "lack of experience with ROTK mythology and history. " As for the geography, I think it can be rectified a bit, just know the location of the Yellow and Yangtze River, you cant miss it, its the 2 widest river body depicted in the campaign map that bisects the landmass horizontally. Yellow River holds more warlords due to its importance and the center of "civilization" and Louyang, the Imperial Capital is there. The closer you are, the more clustered it becomes with smaller regions and tightly packed cities and gate passes. Southwards and westwards you go, and below Yangtze, and its "frontier" territory. Deserts in the west, and thick jungles in the south. As for the lack of experience, dont worry, I think its best to approach it with a personal bias, instead of choosing what nation appeals to you based on historic grounds/cool factor/background/nationalism. Choose which warlord suits your personality and how you interact in the campaign map, which does not require a background knowledge. Blunder your way to interacting with other unique characters and make your own "Romance".
I'd agree that if you are totally foreign to the history and background many things would seem confusing. Being a born Chinese (who later immigrated to Canada), I felt the same when I first played Europe-based medieval games like CK3 or Total War Rome. It's really just about knowledge and as long as you get famaliar with it, things will go smoother and smoother until it becomes natural. As mentioned in 8:24, the factions were named under each leader's name because historically they indeed operated under individual warlords. But I do agree in a gameplay perspective, they should be more distinguished from each other like in Warhammer 3 regarding Cathay factions. For example, Liu Dai's faction can be named something along the line of "Defenders of the Yan Province" and Liu Biao's "Jing's Guardian" which would be more friendly to people who are foreign to the history. As for the geographical confusion, you could check out another franchise called Romance of Three Kingdom, namely the 9th, 11th and 14th in the sequel. They did a quite good job differentiating one location from another.
@@AndysTake also do you have combat guides? I’m really good at resource management and diplomacy guy always simulate the battles because I get thrashed and have no idea what I’m doing
Disagree with the landscape opinion. Having played Koei's ROTK games geography makes a huge difference in strategies you can employ. It's all on CA not making rivers defensible or strategic nor implementing all different chokepoints.
Perfect review! Exactly what I feel about this game. And yes, I also love and can't wait for the next historical TW game using all the good inovations in Three Kingdoms and correcting everything you pointed out. Medieval 3, Empire 2, Shogun 3, Pike and shot era? Who cares? As long as it is a historical!!!
china is definitely a good choice since it was never previously done. I do think an expansion to add in areas like Korea, Japan, and the mongols would have done a lot to increase variety
i understand your problems with the ui (i too had some difficulties with it) but it realy is just a matter of being willing to adapt to new things. the ui in 3k is actually pretty neat, once you know where things are positioned. sure it's not perfect, but there are quite a lot of worse total war games ui vise.
This is so bizarre. Listening to your complaints and then seeing how gorgeous and epic the gameplay is...this convinced me to buy the game more than anything lmao.
It might be overwhelming at first but a lot of us TW fans were ecstatic to get this huge scale in both battles and campaign back to TW after Warhammer kind of toned everything down and the subsequent historical titles were smaller and more focused to specific events like Atilla
@@AndysTake painfully eurocentric and just because you're self aware of how eurocentric you are doesn't suddenly make it a valid point. Acting like there's nothing interesting to be done in China and that everything in China is samey is extremely ignorant and disrespectful. Most of your "rants" could just be summed up with that you don't care about Chinese history or the setting and you aren't interested in caring and yet for some reason you've decided to review a game that hinges on chinese history. It would be like someone reviewing Total War Rome and saying that everything is the same and sucks because they just wanted to play more Warhammer III and they don't care about european history, and then went on to say that Europe's map sucks because it's visually boring compared to WHIII A good majority of your criticisms could have been summed up by you saying you're just disappointed that you didn't get another medieval game
Play games like ROTK and the warriors series for a bit then come back to this game. It really does have a lot to do with the setting than bad choices in design. I found all of the mechanics you had personal gripes about to be things I thought were changes made to compliment the setting well. I think this is true for all of the settings. So many people have ancestry from the Mediterranean and tend to trace their cultural roots back to ancient roman times(not necessarily the country) that we have an easier time understanding mechanics based on our cultures..
The faction names make perfect sense in Chinese and faithful to history. In the early Three Kingdom era, all leaders of the factions were just local warlords, although some of them held a title in the royal court, or received one after they had established their holdings. Most of them were not nobles like those in Europe and their factions were never named after the land they held. Cao Pei and Liu Bei didn't declare their factions a kingdom until mid-to-late Three Kingdom era. Nonetheless, I understand your pain, because Europe's faction names are just as a gibberish to non-Europeans as Chinese names are to non-Chinese. The only difference is that it's probably the first time that you have a taste of the other side.
Agreed.. Also, when you play rome II, you're dealing with empires, not with civil war of small clans.
Take Shogun II as an example: Their Faction names ir after their clan.
Oda Nobunaga: Oda
Takeda Nobuyoshi: Takeda
Instead of "empire names", is just their "surname" (for europeans).
So altho the OP thinks its strange, it just means that he is not familiarized with it and I dont beliave that is a valid point to say "it also sucks because of it".
The op also thought that this is real history. It is partially fiction
@@jonaspete the names are mostly historically accurate, just the events sometimes romanticized to make it appealable to the common folks. There are some fictional names, but its like less 5% are fictional lol (but the story is like 1/5th fiction or its historically accurate but romanticized to make it seems cooler or romantic, like liubei's political marriage etc). The authors (yes multiple people) liked to make fictional events for a real person. and those are added like hundreds of year later in the song dynasty (well quite alot of them are based on folktales about that era too, which evolves throughout the time). But surprisingly total war 3 kingdoms is so historically accurate that a lot of their generic basic characters are actually historically accurate people (watch serious trivia to know more about this)
@@VMontemezzo Did you even listen to the review? He outright stated multiple times that his issue with it most likely stemmed from the fact that as a European, none of this was familiar to him. That combined with the scale - this is China after all - made it all too much for him to take in and enjoy as a setting. At the end he says that if you are either familiar with Chinese history or more interested in it than he is, then it's a must-play.
@@andrewadams8601 I know he said that. I just pointed it out that, as a reviwer, the fact that he doenst know the chinese history, does not makes the game "worse". It is also an oportunity to know better.
Alot of the things you said you don't like about the game are reasons that I like it, it's good to have a TW not set in Europe every once in a while.
That’s not what I said at all, I just said the Chinese geography itself was the complete opposite of what I traditionally like, it being just lots of land essentially. The fact it’s not in Europe is not the issue :)
@@AndysTake well I mean it is China China is a missive land mass not a lot if any islands or anything so idk what they could have done to change that
@@Johnlilly252 Dude! I’m not saying they could change it. I’m saying that’s why China exclusively is not a fitting place for a strategy game for me. Include Korea and Japan and we have another game entirely, with more water, islands, and some diversity in geography.
@@Johnlilly252 they could include indo-china, korea, japan, indonesia and you have much more interesting campaign experience
We need a Victorian era tw with a world map.
I got your point on the difficulty to find your way through so many factions and characters defined by their original name and Chinese ideograms.
On the other hand, this respects perfectly the spirit of the original material, the book itself (try to read a chapter you will see right away what I mean.)
I would say that slowly mastering the specific elements of a story and a game so uniquely exotic for westerners is part of the joy of discovery.
That’s completely true, and I specifically mentioned that this is just my personal experience due to my lack of knowledge and experience with the Chinese language and history. The pleasure of playing is probably ten fold if one is actually familiar with the stories!
@@AndysTake Yes, I would agree with you.
Also, the issue that you mentioned with the Banner, it's actually due to the fact that they are all using Family names. So Liu Bei, Liu Biao etc, would all have the same Family name of Liu, making it even more confusing. It's been a while since I played TW:3K, but I immensely enjoyed the love and care put into the game since I'm both familiar with Chinese language and the rough outline of Romance of the Three Kingdoms.
Not that it devalues your argument in any case, I get how this can be wildly confusing to someone who's not familiar with these kind of things.
@@kalmato5 Thank you for the kind comment :) I’m really glad you’re enjoying the game so much! Are you excited for the sequel?
Yes, I have more hours in 3K now than Rome 2. There is still aspects of the game I don't like, but there is far more good than bad. And for a richer experience, I recommend adding the Radious Mod.
@@AndysTake Try a run of Dynasty Warriors 8 XL (on steam, ignore DW9, just get the DW9 empires if you like the gameplay) . After a single run of dynasty warriors you will know all the characters and their traits, and have a blast playing Dynasty Warriors as those musou games are just too much fun.
Being Chinese I never had most of these issues you encountered thanks to my recognition of the Chinese characters, I do wish they had more unit variety though
I was so disappointed when they said they were going to stop development before even adding the actual 3 kindgoms period as a start setting.
Yeah that would’ve been really great? Perhaps that’s what 3K2 will be about?
let's be perfectly honest here. The interesting part of the "three kingdoms" era is the fall of the later han considering that the time where there is actually three kingdoms (Wei, Wu, and Shu-Han) is essentially just one gigantic stalemate
@@thewingedserpent5823 this made me laugh for some reason, probably because it’s so true
this game is disappointing. the setting is a total crap
They better make 3K2 and adding Naval battle.
Playing 3K giving me ROTK game from Koei vibe. I think CA doing a good job implement several mechanic from that game
I am from Asia who read Chinese history and can read the language. Now you can relate to my challenge when playing Western historical games such as Crusader King franchise :) This video was my first time seeing how this game works. I thought the UI is pretty amazing, putting key Chinese characters against the translated English ones (like banners and key characters). I can immediately pick out which fraction is which (yes, in the time of warlords, people followed their leaders, a named person). I actually love the more oriental looking tech tree rather than the Western style. This game looks interesting overall. I may pick up a copy when it is in a really good discount (not a fan of this genre but love the Chinese history). Cheers.
Glad you like the style! We all have different preferences, but I definitely think most things here look nice, definitely :) the UI is just way too cluttered for me.
@WilfridWong There's a 66% discount now on steam
Sorry Andy, love the structure of your review but this just made me want to play Three Kingdoms 😂
Well I said it was awesome too, didn’t I? :D
This game is a fitting tribute to the Romance novel, the culture and the whole era.
@@WolverineXOXO not really no
Romance novel are absolutely amazing. Discovered them while working in Hong Kong and immediately fell in love. However Total War should have stayed with strictly historical titles.
@@WolverineXOXO if it was, it wouldn't have been famous, but the result speak for itself
@@MonteKristof I thought you could choose to play either the historical mode or the romance mode?
@@MonteKristof They used both the romance of the three kingdoms and the records when creating the game. One of the characters/factions, Liu Chong, isn’t in the romance but is a real person from records of the era, just to give an example.
Also if we’re talking historical then is anyone going to address the bomb throwing ninja squads in the room
This was my first Total war and after 3000 hours across all total wars games this is still my favorite. The gameplay and the graphics and everything about it is absolutely amazing
same
is it worth buying on sale?
@@raptorhacker599 100% worth it
@@raptorhacker599 For sure brother, best total war game if u ask me
Same here, I have significantly more hours in 3k than the other games in the series.
Fans of the Three Kingdoms period have been playing games in this universe since the 80’s. There’s also a rather pivotal work of literature which can help you understand the lore. Criticisms in this review largely stemmed from the reviewer’s ignorance of the period, and their inability to recognize foreign names of towns, officers, etc. Still worth watching as game mechanics are covered well.
Yeah I’m not even super familiar with ancient Chinese history but I can still very readily grasp what’s going on here and I think it’s actually awesome. Seeing his criticism of it all seem like things that are actually good so I’m gonna download it now lol
Yeaaa, the people want medieval 3 simple as that
As well as his lack of basic geographic knowledge. Him wanting peninsulas and lands split by water in CHINA🤣 sometimes ignorance is bliss in this case its a whole comedy show.
@@romanpechorin4798 To be clear, he didn't want peninsulas and large lakes/oceans in China. He said that the landscape is how its supposed to be, but he personally doesn't find it conducive to a Total War game.
@@shadewolfe3131 maybe so, but the way he talks about the other historic marerial of this title, is just atrocious, so I guess i just perceived the whole review as incredibly illiterate and ignorant.
Your comment about China not being a good place for this game, because the map doesn't have good geographic features to help you orientate, is due to the artistic style they chose. If they picked a more realistic style like the previous games, you'd have seen that China's geographic features vary drastically. They did a disservice to China's geographic diversity and beauty when they designed this game's map.
That just might be it, Jeremy. Whether you felt what I did or not, I think indeed that, many of China’s rivers for example, are not really turned into choke points and defensive positions - just places you can easily run over. Idk. But yeah, I really feel that.
@@AndysTake Yeah, like the USA, China is massive; it has mountains, forest, deserts, planes, swamps, rivers and lakes. But they skipped over all that, and in the process lost the features that made each region of the country feel unique, as well as the strategic value of the terrain.
@@DarvakSondrath exactly. Thanks for watching and commenting, my friend!
I disagree about the map. I love that the whole map is just one big landmass. It took me out of my eurocentric comfort zone. You have to be a lot more strategic in how you conquer and it's just so different from the way you have to think when playing a TW set in Europe. There are a lot of geographic barriers with choke points that make it easier to guard against invaders. You have to consider carefully which regions you're going to conquer and you have to plan in advance. This does increase the initial difficulty curve for someone who picks this up as their first TW title. The main problem with the big landmass is that the AI does not conquer strategically, but just what's nearest. Border gore can be intense. You also become emperor way too soon for my liking. The AI (esp. Lui Bei) will have disjointed lands and armies moving between them, which makes taking them out a chore when they're suddenly emperor and you haven't had the time to anchor yourself properly. When the AI does have a huge, contiguous territory, oh boy does it get good. The one landmass China forces you to move armies in proper fronts. It feels more like a real war, because if you do not coordinate your armies' movement, you are fucked. The most boring campaigns are the ones where the emperor seats spawn too close to one another and you can win the campaign in 10 turns once it happens. The best campaign I've had is one where the last emperor seat is literally the last city I had to conquer.
Agreed. It’s supposed to make you feel uneasy and rely on diplomacy for protection, not just a helm’s deep type turtle base
True, even for me this was the best total war experience ever, especially as you mentioned, when the ai has huge empires that tactical big war feeling is amazing, I’ve had a lot of fun in the endgame so the three kingdom period when they are relay just 3 big empires left and fighting for even small stripes of land
But Don't you feel like Total war is too eurocentric at this point. I was drawn back in because of the Chinese setting. Shogun Total war was my favorite and I was happy to see a return to the east. I can't imagine thinking Europes map is just a better map for strategy games, when these campaigns are based in history the actual landscape and culture birthed some of our species greatest tactical genius' like Sun Tzu for starters.
On the other hand the map organization can be very messy and it is hard keeping up with the banners and names for me. I found myself panning around looking for my army not being able to tell apart whose army is whose and or even whose territory is whose.
You’re correct in that there’s plenty of room for non-European settings, I’m just saying that for me, the geographic scale and layout of Europe lends itself extremely well to strategy games - but also North Africa and the Middle East/Mediterranean. Shogun was great!
@@AndysTake
Units:
I agree with your Unit variety being an issue and I would even argue that having units tied to the general type is more of a hindrance. Purple and yellow Units are rarely used because of this restrictions and most of my combinations tend to be red+green+blue.
Styled UI:
I don't know about the Ui critiscism as I didn't have any issues when I first played it, but I will respect it as this could be a major issue to alot of people and that I might be unaware of it.
Faction Location:
Regarding finding where factions are, if I recall correctly, you could see the green lands, when you open up diplomacy and I think starting a convo with them will move you to the location they are at. Regardless, I think you have a fair point as people unaware of 3k might have a hard time. BUT I personally never encountered that issue despite playing the game with 0 knowledge of 3k at the beginning or china. In addition, your point regarding this could be a bias view from, I'm assuming, a european as I could also say an african, asian or american player might have a hard time finding out which euopean kingdom is located where in medieval and I now still personally tend to get a bit confuse around the location of medieval kingdoms and modern countries located in eastern europe.
Geography:
I personally don't feel like it's a fair comparison though since you were comparing the geography of a continent and the geography of a large country.
Obviously, the continent map of the Mediterranean would have more variety compared a smaller map of a large country. Your comparison is no different from comparing england itself to the americas or comparing india to a map based on south east asia. The best and fairest comparison you could have done was probably japan and china.
And then the only thing you compared about it relating to geography was the body of water and that because of the lack of water, you had a hard time navigating the place ( which is more of a personal critiscm than an objective one)
Even so, China's own geography is still diverse. The two rivers acts as natural barriers as you can't just cross it directly and must go to a crossing to reach one side to the other. Heck, I think the last update made the capital county impossible to traverse except for two openings which were blocked by walled guard point(forgot what they were called). It also has plains, jungles, deserts and forests and they aren't for visuals either, they do add buff/debuffs in battle.
On the other hand, you are right to criticise the lack of building variety as it looks more bland than for example medieval's. And one weaknest of 3k is that it has a non-existant naval battle, which is due to the fact that they are mostly land battles with one exception(Fall of Chi Bi)
Faction Names:
I think the criticism regarding the faction name is more grey.
I think you are right that a non chinese/non 3k fan would have a hard time differentiating who is who.
The Problem, however, is that these people's names are more easily recognisable in general(Non-fan + Fan), compared to calling them by titles(Duke of XX, Count of YY). So this might be the best solution despite it not being helpful to you and others.
(Also related to the 200 faction critiscm:)
Plus 3k is more of a war between dukes and counts compared to medieval which is a war between kingdoms. If total war medieval 3 suddenly introduces Dukes and counts and removes kingdoms, I think it would also be confusing.
You could argue that shogun solved that issue by having surnames/clan names, but the problem is that there are alot of similar clan names and most of the time they aren't related at all. For example, Liu A and Liu B might have the same surname but they could be 0 blood relations. Liu A could be the descendant from the royal Liu, while Liu B is from the clan Liu located in county Z. (The Zhang brothers weren't even blood related too if I recall correctly)
Also having 'Clan Liu fight Clan Liu' might be a worse solution compared to having 'Liu A fight Liu B' for non
Basically, what I am saying is that personally, the way 3 kingdoms presented the faction names coud be the best way of differentiating people. Plus majority of the time, they are barely any succession so the point(and the faction who have successions are probably going to be wiped out one turn later anyways) where Liu A dies and Zhang B succeeds him and then the faction name change shouldn't be 'much' of an issue.
Another point that is related to naming them by kingdoms is that:
As stated this is one entire country and yes, in its history it has multiple kingdoms fighting to rule china(e.g. warring states), this is three kingdoms, and what's worse is that the appeal of three kingdoms is set before the creation of the three kingdoms, which is when there is officially only one kingdom, the Han.
IN FACT, every warlord was fighting for the restoration of the kingdom of Han and if you declare to everyone that you were the kingdom of XXX, you became enemy no.1 to everyone and everyone has a casus belli to destroy you. That is why we have the ROMANCE story of Yuan Shu, who claimed to be the new emperor AKA new kingdom aka NOT HAN and everyone decided to kill him and he immediately gets wiped out by everyone.
Therefore, you can't just say call them kingdom of XX and kingdom of YY because you couldn't. Also the kingdom name is based on their capital if I'm not wrong. So cao pi became the king of wei is because his capital was located at the county wei, not because he was 'feeling it
P.s.:
- Ancient china people used to have I think 2 or 3 names and most of the time, anything political was based on their family prestige and their social networking. It was why Yuan Shao was elected the leader of the coalition, why liu bei cheated sun quan out of a county because he was the uncle of the bed-ridden Liu Qi, the man who inherited those lands, and was claiming he was holding on to these lands for Liu Qi.
- Families with different surnames might even be related to each other. One of Cao Cao's popular stories was involving him staying at his uncle house. The uncle's surname was Dong, the same surname of Dong Zhuo the tyrant.(Cao's Uncle Dong was probably NOT related to Dong Zhuo)
- We also have the issues of blood brothers like liu bei, zhang fei and guan yu sworing an oath of brotherhood and thus being 'related'
@@leezhengjie6958 you have too much time on your hands
@@sryan9547 lol
The geography and UI complaints feel almost entirely subjectively biased. As someone who literally knew nothing about chinese geography, cities, or the three kingdoms era coming into the game, I can say that it truly rewards you the more time and effort you invest into not just the game, but the culture of China and its rich history. Over three years later & 1000+ hours later all the time I spent on the game and subsequent readings of China's culture and history has led to an immesnely fulfilling experience that is hard to quantify. The massive amount of characters and factions means that there's always usually something interesting to learn since so many of them have historical roots.
As a fellow Aussie, we westerners tend to glorify the romans and will gladly "think about them once at least one a week" to delve deep into it's countless centuries of characters and history, always finding something so fascinating no matter how minute. This is essentially the same for the Chinese when it comes to the Three kingdoms era. It may not be a lot of peoples cup of tea, but the game really is a love letter to those willing to invest the time and effort.
It's a fucking disgrace CA chose to abandon the game so close to completion.
Imagine hating on a game solely because it’s not in a place you know about. You can have your preferences and opinions but hating on a game and saying it’s not worth it because you’re ignorant is pretty shitty.
Damn way to not watch the video at all
@@AndysTakeunfortunately I did watch it
@@Duarte6440 so your media literacy is horrible then?
@@AndysTake Damn, taking to insults because someone doesn't agree with your shit take.
@@Duarte6440 not once in this video did I hate on this game, that’s why your media literacy is shit when that’s what you get from a carefully written and nuanced review with obvious personal opinions laid out and explained in detail, with disclaimers even! Also when did I say it wasn’t worth it if you like this setting?
Forget that question.. Three Kingdoms is literally the best Total War game ever made.. It has the best, most realistic, and most complete spy system, RPG system, customization system of options and characters, unit rosters, DIPLOMACY (the biggest plus), most immersive battles and stunning duels..etc As much as a like the previous historical Total War games they dont even come close to 3 Kingdoms. Just buy it, trust me.
Glad you love it so much! It definitely has a lot to offer
It’s one of my favourite games. I just wish the developers weren’t cunts trying to ruin it. I’m actually glad they stopped fucking with it since they left it in a pretty good state content wise and can’t put in any more bugs they’re too lazy to fix and need the modding community to fix for them.
I love 3K, but was disillusioned after it was «sent out to pasture».
Sadly it's in fucking CHINA and has shitty fantasy elements. The last TW I bought was Attila and God knows that was the lastest good total war. The rest or are awful saga games or cancerous fantasy titles.
@@albertmont3411 what’s wrong with China?
For the name part, this is something you will have a lot less trouble if you know a little bit of Chinese history or culture. For me a chinese, not only most of the names are well known, we also can distinguish the name of each faction by the banner(there is kanji written on the banner) instead of their current leader. And you cant give them dynasty name, since although having all these factions, only 3 of them declaire themselves king(wei, shu, wu. therefore 3 kingdoms). And the example you give, shuhan is techinically not really correct(context dependent). Liubei's faction is Han, he supports the former court and has the royal lineage of last dynasty. The reason he is called shuhan, is because his kingdom is mostly in shu(sichuang, southern part of china.) So lots of chinese players want to change the name based on where they declared themselves.
Honestly, I am a bit salty here since a lot of aspects of the game really delights our Chinese player here. Like the black white ui style is shuimohua, ink painting. And the location really confuses us really little since, well, we been to most of those places and we know the geography. Much of your rant comes from a perspective of stepping our of your comfort zone the first time, playing a history related game based other than your culture, while we were doing those sort of things for quite a long time and still be able to appreciate that. It also reminds me of watching another game tourny held in china, I see lots of people in twitch complaining there is chinese broadcast in the background while all those other years there were always english broadcast in past tourneys. But all in all, good reviews, this game does present quite some flaws and the video made some good points.
yeah the reviewer don't have much knowledge and understand of Chinese history
@@hoksokhan6684 he isn't obliged to. He is a customer, he pays for the product.
3K clearly was made as an attempt to milk Chinese market with the setting popular in local culture. I assume, the attempt was successful. At the same time, not everyone is a fan of Ancient China and not everyone must be the one. The man expresses his opinion on the matter - and that's it.
I love this game and are having the sound in chinese give so much immersion even tough i cant understand anything they are saying
@@mdokuch96 The thing is that most of the video guys rants were not about 3k as a game but rather about chinese history.I think 3 kingdoms is an amazing game and so is chinese history.
@@mdokuch96I think the biggest issue is that the factions aren't factions, they're characters. I got the grasp of Shogun 2's factions very quickly, they were short and sweet names like: Saga, Aizu, Oda, Tokugawa, etc. Even though, at the time, I knew nothing about Japan.
But if the factions were named after each Daimyo at the time... it would have become instantly more esoteric.
People can remember the name Western Rome in Attila. They're the West part of Rome. Even if you know nothing about Rome. But if they name the faction 'Caeser Whathisface McPerson' it becomes objectively harder to memorize the faction.
Also what happens if your 3k main character dies? I know in older titles you can change history by having Julius Caesar die and be usurped by another general. But if the faction was named Julius Caesar... it'd be weird if he died. He is the faction.
Key words: "not familiar with Chinese geography, history or Romance of the Three Kingdoms" "UI/map/faction names doesn't look like other games" Dude you are truly champion of Sameium
No, the problem is exactly that the units and cities and factions and people and names all DO look the same. Because they're all Chinese. YOU are the champion of Sameium.
@@TomorrowWeLive sane energy as "you're all white/european"
For me, this is the best TW game I played, and I played them all (Literally). Hero mechanics in Romance mode was something that refreshed (at least for me) the series immensely. Having three generals with retinues (each of them specialized in commanding certain units), items and well developed skills (and their interactions with one another) made this game something completely different from other TW games. I think that this game brought something that no other TW game ever had. First, each faction is in one way or another unique (and has its own mechanics), and as the game progresses and your faction grows, so your abilities and perks increase (through titles like duke, king etc). Also, 3K Total war, and its scripted and random events really made the game "feel alive". Unlike other TW war games (except for WH2), this was not just some "build, stack, kill" game, it really made me feel like I was a part of a story, not just some sandbox slaughter (battles are also awesome in 3KTW). Also, court mechanics, assignments, titles, councils and hero perks (and interaction between heroes, like "modest vs greedy"), really made my faction look alive, it wasn't just some stack of characters defined by stats. I was utterly disappointed when Troy Total War didn't "inherit" the hero mechanic from 3K TW, because that was the perfect setting for another "hero focused" TW game.
Yeah, but the setting is total crap. Medieval 2 is still the best
@@nicolausteslaus the settings isn’t what’s important it’s gameplay the reason why med2 trumps all say except shogun 2 because of its QOL changes is because it’s gameplay , fantastic through and through its just sad that CA can make a good total war anymore because they shove spreadsheeting shite down everyone’s throat if they do a med 3 it’ll be riddled with so much shit it’ll shame med2 like generals with 5k health etc. just go play manor lords when it releases
@@nicolausteslaus Three Kingdom setting is far better than medieval
My favorite of all TW to date. 2nd to that is Shogun 2.
Paragraphs please omg 😂
Even as someone who speaks/reads/writes Mandarin fluently I had helluva time keeping track of names/factions. Didn't help that the unit roster was just copy-paste between factions
Glad to hear I’m not alone! :)
The copy paste unit roster isn't necessarily the problem, I'd say. Shogun 2 had that also, virtually identical unis for every faction, but that game managed to be WAY more fun, with WAY more replayability, compared to 3K
It is the best total war game imo
Elaborate ;)
@@AndysTake it has the best campaign, the best battles, the best government system, the best diplomacy, the best setting in contrast to the framework of total war, it has the best story, the best characters the list literally goes on. Honestly its only rival when it comes to creativity and polish is Warhammer 2.
@@DragonballBlack I’m glad you enjoy it that much! I think it too is great game mechanically, visually, etc. Just not my favourite time period/setting, but all the better for those who love it!
I like the "low fantasy" idea of leaders being juggernauts on the battlefield, and I find the idea of armies being split between people working for you who might betray you very interresting. So I might pick up this game.
I think many of the criticisms here are significantly mitigated if you're familiar with the source material. In this respect, three kingdoms succeeds quite well. The locations and characters accurately reflect the setup in the original novel.
That said, the criticism has some validity. In particular, a lot could be done to make factions and characters more distinctive in the art department, especially because so many characters(including faction leaders) have generic portraits.
Likewise, China has considerable geographical and cultural diversity. More could have been done to make different parts of the map geographically distinct.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts! :) And I think you're right, it's probably much better if you know the stories!
If a game or a film demands you to go read a book first to understand, what the hell is going on, something is really wrong in the story department. Game is a separate peace of art. It either must work on its own, or shouldn't try to cover it's flaws behind "Go, read a book first" claim.
@@mdokuch96 When you play a Star Wars game, it assumes at the very least you've seen the original series. The more familiar you are with Star Wars, the more you get out of Star Wars related video games. Most Star Wars games are designed with Star Wars fans in mind, and assume a degree of familiarity that most Star Wars fans would have.
Likewise, Rome Total War assumes a degree of familiarity with the ancient world. It doesn't explain who the Romans, Greeks and Carthaginians are.
I don't see why Three Kingdoms should be any different then the above. There are around 2 billion people on earth who are familiar with the novel. If they can sell the game to that population, that is more than enough.
@@jasonquigley2633 and you got it in the last sentence. 3K was made to be sold on the Chinese market, period. Never was intended to be popular here in Europe, in the first place.
I also assume that exactly 3K tested the waters for CA on the matter of adding Cathay in WH3 - for the sake of having bigger sales numbers thanks to China again.
I have nothing against China in general, just not a fan of "local theatre" TW games with one culture of all factions and more or less same units. So I just accept the fact that 3K was never made for me, and that's normal.
@@mdokuch96 Shogun(1 and 2) was a similar title, and in fact aimed at a western audience (neither were translated to Japanese on release), and of course shogun is the origin of the series and a popular title. As with three kingdoms, you got more out of the game if you're familiar with the period, but you didn't need to be familiar with the period to enjoy it.
Of course, you're entitled to your own taste, and it's not a requirement for every total war fan to like every total war title.
Three Kingdoms is a story about INDIVIDUALS building empires, and not about the empires themselves. So it's reasonable that the battle maps are centered on characters, and why the list of "factions" is so big. Actually, I think the full list of characters in the novel is way larger than 200, because there encyclopedias that readers have to use in order to keep track of the heroes and characters who competed to be emperor (it's sort of like Game of Thrones). I can't comment on the actual game play, but it makes total sense that this game is character / hero focused.
The nature of the total war series is that it allow players to be immersed in certain cultures, and if you're not interested in certain cultures then it also makes sense you don't enjoy the game play that much.
It’s not just that either, the game also adds characters from the records of the era the novel doesn’t even mention. I’m pretty sure Liu Chung is never mentioned in the novel but he did exist during the time as a local governor (I’m pretty sure he’s the emperor’s uncle) and has a campaign in the game.
I had some difficulties playing it at the first time. But some months later, when I put some effort, it was my best TW experience.
I played dynasty warriors and rotk before this game was even an idea, so i was familiar with the setting and characters. It’s just a shame they cut support for it prematurely.
Thank you for the cohesive review, and also for bringing up some of the issues less talked about (UI, faction variety). Thank you for this!
My pleasure, Alejandro, thank you so much for leaving a comment and for watching!
I love the whole larger than life feelings you get with the little bit of fantasy sprinkled in. They always depict these generals especially the generals and warlords of ancient chine starting with the unification under China with the Qin dynasty to the three kingdoms era. They also did put in a mode to also play more historically so if you don't like the fantasy/demi-god mode just play that mode and enjoy the great game they put out but that's just how I feel
I'm a historical nerd but dangit, the duels and stories I make along the way playing romance mode is so fun.
Like how one coward general left the duel with me earlier, and in revenge my trebuchet landed a direct hit on him. Thus, he was crushed by a boulder for running away!
@@sol2544that feels like something that would have happened in the novel
I get the game few months ago, I really enjoying it. I play in record mod, with the lighting from Romance, I am big fan of the diplomacy, the talks between general during battles etc..
I’m glad you enjoy it, mate, it’s a wonderful game overall :)
I would say they should've done the Spring and Autumn period to Warring State period in China since there's a lots of country and different units that don't have the same culture with different writing and banner that are closer to icons.
1:25 casually forgets to mention Shogun, 2:15 oh, NVM you just completely forgot about Shogun
2:10 romance and records mode change how the map looks, it looks more realistic in records
4:15 sounds like you don’t know how to adapt to new and unfamiliar circumstances
4:40 no disagreement
6:40 This sounds like a terrible idea that causes so many problems such as harming the bandit factions (cities can debuff bandits if they’re too big) and potentially killing this game’s unique ability to let you play tall
8:00 as many people have mentioned, this is because these aren’t distinct nations, these are people that all identify themselves as being part of the nation of China and are just lords part of that nation (except the Nanman), even when they form dynasties that just means they’re saying they’re the new imperial family, not that they’re a new nation.
15:47 on that topic, units, generals, and buildings are color coded to match with Chinese philosophy, I believe it’s blue is water, green is wood, red is fire, yellow is gold, and grey is iron.
Final thoughts: it feels like your entire criticism of the game centers around the fact it isn’t set in Europe. Almost the entire video you kept sucking off that generic Europe+North Africa+West Asia map almost every game uses. It feels like you’re just unwilling to accept something different and have to find any excuse you can to criticize it.
Thank you
3K is actually what I always wanted after I saw how they implemented lords in warhammer 1, a mixture of fantasy and history really is the go to way to make a three kingdom game, sadly they ended the support prematurely but at least they try.
I wish when they decide to make medivial 3 they could include the entire europe-asia continent because during the Mongolian invasion period Song and Jin dynasty in China is also battling the Mongols in the east so that would be very cool to include that part of the world as well
I wouldn't mind seeing the Hero system in more games. Not just Troy and 3K, but Alexander, Persian Empire x Greece, 100 Year War, Vikings sagas, founding of Rome, etcetera. I love the optional ability to play this epic Hero of a nation or peoples and take on entire units like their mythological adaptations.
@@morginstjarnaI thought it would be great to get a game set in Arthurian legend times like this
@@LordFinai that would be awesome!
@@morginstjarna Arthurian legend tends to get slept on, I genuinely think it would have been more interesting to have gotten something like total war Avalon then Thrones of Britannia
I'm also in that camp who thought it was a great game that was primarily hampered by my complete lack of knowledge about the history in question.
Especially with regard to your note about the map, I wish regions or cities had more contrast so that people who are struggling to remember place names would have another way to latch onto "where am I?" It's a lovely map though
On the UI - the specific point I resonated with was the tech tree. It is beautiful! and... useless... well, not useless, but it was a struggle to stay oriented as to where any specialty path was or how or why they might coordinate. The other UI elements didn't bug me too much.
I may need to give it another couple weeks of attention as I prepare my soul for Warhammer III
China is a massive country with lots of different landscapes, it would be nicer if the emphasised this, for example by making the mountains of shanxi and the south bigger and more distinct, and also making cities less alike and adding more unique buildings.
I would love if they added dlc's of other periods of division in chinese history, or finally did a shogun 3 crossover where you can play as ming, korea or a japanese warlord or even the manchu
I'm not Chinese and I got more than 1600hrs of game play in 3k. So short answer is yes. It was right for TW
3k is pretty much the most innovate total war yet the most stagnating. It represents a ton of new ideas whose elements would have been carried onto the Warhammer series, and certainly for the new historical total wars. The stagnation parts are the battles, elements of the UI and the historical fantasy mode which has been a contention. 3K was very much an experiment for what is going to happen for the next total wars and especially the next historical total war which is needed right now to revive the historical fanbase (Hey I love fantasy, but it feels like it's one sided and CA needs to return to historical. Do fantasy CA that's great, but don't forget your core audience which made the total war fanbase in the first place).
I haven't played troy but wasn't that game supposed to be a way to tide over historical fans? I know it has the mythological side but that wasn't in launch so I always saw the game as them saying "we're working on the next historical title but its going to take time."
@@LordFinai first of all, Troy was a "saga" game - meaning, this is not big full-scale TW but some local story on the local theatre with mostly copypaste factions (to a degree, ofc).
@@mdokuch96 my point wasn’t that it was the next historical title but that it’s supposed to give historical fans something while they wait for the next real historical release, sorry if I worded it in a confusing way before
Let's see your points
Geography: totally agree, same reason why I don't like playing the germany-USSR fight in HOI4.
As for the rest, part of the issue I think is the lack of familiarity as a westerner (to some extend it is even true for the geography I guess) leading to the feeling of "all the same" it leads to. That being said it might simply be that it really is same old same old, as I feel that for quite a few total war titles (thrones of britannia for example)
Total War Three Kingdoms Records mode is the best historical tw for me, it has a lot of depth and cool mechanics than any other historical tw. TW 3K records mode is nothing less of historical total war, those people saying that 3k records mode is very fantasy is very untrue. 3K Chinese-styled UI, visuals, music etc are not worse or better than the vanilla total war, it is just different and I like it better than the western style on historical total war. I personally strongly disagree with the majority of the rants here
Thanks for sharing! Are you referring to my rants or other peoples’?
Would you recommend playing it and obtaining the dlcs though it doesn't have official support from CA anymore ? I don't know whether to buy it or not.
I really hate that criticism of the units being the same. Shogun 2 did the same thing, and that game is an all time favourite.
One can still criticize Shogun 2 for the same thing, and it has. But a slight difference is that in Shogun 2, so many of the units were awesome flipping samurai units with awesome armour and weapons. Here, not so much.
@@AndysTake But the same goes for 3K, yeah all the peasant militia look the same, just as ashigaru did in S2, but then you get your elite units (which I believe there a more than in S2) which all look stunning. Could just be a bias, I've always loved any ancient Asian aesthetic and I prefer a civil war setting in total war games.
@@MrMiniTakitos To each their own :)
Honestly, going from Britannia and Rome 2, to Three Kingdoms and now the Warhammer 3, Three Kingdoms has the clearest UI for me. Especially compared to Warhammer
I am for one glad they didn't dumb it down especially for gen Z people who can't even be bothered to google information if they can't even be bothered to read books on the subject. You know there are English BOOKS if you don't know anything about the history. I've been a Total War fan since 2000 when they came out with TW Shogun 1. Shogun 1 is Japan, another far eastern culture. They actually didn't depart from the origins but rather they returned to their roots. I just agree with your UI criticisms and I must add the long loading times are terrible.
The warring states in China would a be great as I would love to unify the land as Qin or maybe you could be Zhao as alternate history. The battle of changing as a historic battle should hopefully be played as historic battle arguably ones of the most important and largest battles in Chinese history.
The irony of the time period is that the three kingdoms period (year 220-280) itself is the 'lamest' part, with the novel romance of three kingdoms largely glossed over the history post wuzhang plains (year 234) and therefore, so did the adaptations.
But then again, if they bothered covering something as obscure as eight princes rebellion, i cant see why they dont bother with three kingdoms start date
One missing element from this game that I felt was unfortunate was how in the story, characters were not always fixed to their plot of land. They were made governors of a region only to get chased out or promoted/reassigned to another region.
We see this happen to liu bei several times in the novel iirc. The tw game tried to simulate this (maybe, I guess) by having defeated faction’s characters go into the recruitable pool or something, so they weren’t gone forever unless specifically executed or killed in battle. But it’s not quite the same thing as seeing liu bei pop up here and there like a prairie dog, or lu bu being chased out of one region only to take over somewhere else.
They implemented this in one of the dlc, where lübu would be defeated in the initial spawn region and pop up in xuzhou owned by liubei.
I love this game. Sure the ui can be confusing especially in the late game when you have alot of characters. I dont have the same problem with faction identification, probably beacuse my greed for territory but also largely beacuse of character portraits.
And the battles are amazing. Both the infantry, but maybe more the cavalry charges are amazing.
Glad you love the game, friend :)
The UI is so much better and much simpler to used tbh. Idk what you're talking about. I much rather they use the art style for that time period and the culture that simplifies the looks then having everything with realistic style that makes it harder to read.
i did have alot of problems identifying all the different minor factions as well at the beginning its a bit confusing for us plebs but to be fair i think (i cant speak for every1) total war three kingdoms is the best total war game so far its easily the most polished its my absolute favorite im just sad that they did not continue releasing dlcs for the game but i think they are working on a total war three kingdoms 2 which just shows the popularity of the game, i had the most fun playing three kingdoms to be fair i had no idea i would enjoy it this much
oh and it has a lot of different campaigns and start date! Each factions is incredibly unique and allows you to use special faction features.
This is easily one of the best total wars ever.
The issues it suffers from is naming convention which confused things. It makes it hard for us in the west to keep track of characters and get to love the game.
It's also more complex so will put off your average person.
It gives back what you put in so is worth it for people who want to pit some effort in and be rewarded.
It has some of the best graphic and best diplomacy.
The map also works so well with the total war engine as the ai can move around and fight so well it's a perfect map.
The ai can't cope with total war europe maps.
Rome 2 total war is likely THE WORST total war game ever. The fact you state it as a good game... No. The factions in total war are families so disappear rapidly. You need to concentrate only on those near you if you find it confusing.
It's not a rant if it's backed by observations and evidence. Rofl, for example, the faction naming, even for Sinophiles, is absolutely absurd.
And I'm sold... I'll pick this up during the wintersale! Really wish I picked this up sooner, I thought it was worse than it was.
people who plays this game on records mode just dont get it. this is not supposed to be historical accurate. its based on a novel, like king arthur but in the east. you get the full experience only playing the romance mode where you can level up your favorite characters and skill them uniquely like in diablo and other rpgs. this game is total war + rpg.
Guys like us that play the Romance of the three kingdom games pretty much know every character in the game. I've been playing RTK games for more than 30 years. So we are the target market for this game
i find it funny you are talking about how it is set in Asia, a far departure from Europe... bro you know that the first Total War ever made was in Japan right?
3 Kingdoms had become my favourit TW Title. And that although I didn't know much about Chinese history before.
Glad you enjoyed it, Todd!
gotta stop u right there... this is based on history, its not fantastical... and the amount of warlords available is actually based on tt historical record... tt being said... it feels abit clunky with tw3k... but it has quite a few innovative features compared to prev TW...I think CA wanted to compete with Koei with this release...
"I liked it but stopped playing" sums up my 3K experience. I'm not entirely sure why, I love the setting and characters (I grew up playing Dynasty Warriors, lol), The "accuracy" appeals to me, I enjoy the art style and graphics...
But something just feels off. There's a lot to manage, which definitely helps it feel harder to dive in, but then again, I greatly enjoy Medieval 2. The battles are usually absurdly fast and not all that difficult. The "time period" campaign mechanics are also off putting. It's a cool idea- I just don't think they pulled it off quite right. And being greeted with a closed wall of characters behind DLC always bugs me.
Also, yeah, the UI is really, *really* bad and hard to follow. The style is nice, but its confusing. Maybe I just need more time in the game. Maybe "overwhelming" or "off-putting" is a better way to put it.
The algorithm of the Internet has taken me here, right in time for the annual commemoration of the abrupt end of game development and up to what the totalwar redditors call a revival (thanks to the seasonal sales)
Oh, and why factions change their faction names when their leaders die or are in regencies is because that’s what Chinese warlords are: they have to earn their fiefs from their nominal Han emperors (like when Cao Cao is given the titles Duke and then King of Wei, which was Yuan Shao’s former power base; or of Yuan Shao’s faction title Duke/King of Song out of Cao Cao’s power base if the Guandu campaign goes wrong for the Caos)
honestly mostly review channels never get straight to the point but you did and thanks so for that you deserve a sub keep it up my guy
I completly lost interest in 3K after they sent it out to pasture. Find it hard to trust CA again, and I’m not going to look into WH3 untill after reviews are out. Great video as always Andy.
Thank you so much, Richard! Does that mean you initially liked the game? I see so many people that were hit hard from the news of the game’s attention ending, did it really feel like it came so soon? Wasn’t it a matter of two years?
@@AndysTake Yeah I liked it, played it quite a lot acctually and bought all DLC’s, so very disappointed when they just pulled the plug.
I've never undertood the complaints of 3k that it's fantasy and not historical...the NOVEL IS NOT HISTORICALLY ACCURATE, IT'S LIKE A FANTASY NOVEL DESCRIBING THE HISTORCIAL EVENTS OF WHAT HAPPENED THEREFORE IF YOU FIND champions slaughtering entire armies, shouting between leaders etc, that's because it WAS adapted from the novel. There are realistic versions too, but for me, the realism aspect is the most realistic depiction of 3k. Could never understand this complaint.
You really missed the mark when looking at the battles. Melee is completely overshadowed by cavalry and missile units in battles, which quickly disintegrate into scattered blobs. The battle experience amounts to chasing units all over the place. Stat modifiers determine what happens rather than factors such as unit fatigue, physics and terrain. I'm speaking about Records mode.
let not forget the dynamic terrain effect, what i learn form 3k is move slowly in snow and rain, force the enemy to move thought water to get to you and never used fire arrow or fire bomb inside a forest. i love it luring the ai enemy army in the forest with 1 or 2 cav unit and used fire arrow to start a wildfire and camp outside the forest to finished up any enemy that make thought
It is roughly set in the same time period as the Romans and Parthians are. Now unite Rome 2 with 3k and you would have the ultimate cross-over.
The UI and the map just became "clusters" in a way that I always lost myself on the map. In menues ect. Couldn't find stuff I know I've seen before or even lost what city was attacked a few rounds ago.
Somehow everything just blends into one thing in a bad way
Yeah that’s what I thought as well. There’s just too much everywhere.
Great review!
Bear in mind that although you point out that a ton of names were unfamiliar and many factions are beginning to emerge, the best example I can give is the Crisis of the Third century and the crisis after Commodus's era. There were tons of legions declaring many numerous emperors just like in 3k which is essentially the breaking of the Han Empire. The Romans too had many complicated and long names that try to ask anyone in real life to pronounce and they wouldn't (Maybe Italians) know which Emperor was trying to succeed which. To long term fans of the period, they will. To others, they won't. What CA should have done is used the Shogun 2 system of simplicity of representing the other factions in-game. They did do this to a degree, but the names can be confusing granted. There should have been more input in this manner. The colour scheme was an odd choice since it mixed realism and saturated colours together - which didn't make sense. One only needs to examine how Koei represents the period in a different way.
The other aspect is you ask is China right for total war? You bring up the issue of unfamiliar names, geographical density and location. That question could also be perfectly and legitimately asked for India and South-East Asia. Will players play those titles because they are familiar with that region? Or will they not? Are the periods right for that setting despite the fact hundreds and thousands of battles were waged in India/Korea/South East Asia for decades in that matter? Why does Paradox games cover the whole world then? Why can they afford to show the world if Total War isn't doing it right?
I think total war has a problem with smaller settings in general and it's a paradox. Shogun 2 is the most easily popular period because of consistent western marketing of Japanese culture (as compared to the non-existent one in India, or even Korea for that matter, and it doesn't add Korea or China, YET it's still a much loved game._ Therefore, western players can recognise that period because samurai and I love it too. Yet we look at Thrones of Britannia, that didn't work. Troy sadly didn't work either (A very big mistake by not expanding to the full Bronze Age, instead giving us a DLC of a Lord from Ethoipia. They could have worked on this game for 2-3 years and given us more factions to play from. A complete and regretful waste of this fantastic era and I am saddened by it.) The Kingdoms expansion was part of the base game of Med 2 but they were separate campaigns in a sense. This leads to the next point: Constricting China to China only. No Korea, no playable South-East Asia. Not even India for that matter. Bear in mind that would have made the game more replayable because you have a gigantic map and you'd be able to conquer from wherever you wanted. There are various Medieval II mods in China that showcase the entire Chinese landmass, Japan and Korea. This would have been much better as a choice.
I'm not a fan that CA chooses a unique Asian setting like China, and constricts it to one landmass and I don't want the same with an India setting for that matter. India has had a lot of cultural influence in South-East Asia which its importance should not be under-estimated historically. But, historical accuracy and all that plays a factor too. If Europe can be afforded all the landmass it has and all the way to India, then it sure can do the same with China, Japan and Korea etc.
That what makes total war fun. Not smaller settings. BIG.
I agree with you, and you’re so correct - Shogun does well because Samurai and the myth of them, indeed, Japan itself is so popular in the West (media, culture, history etc), and so it’s an easy sell. I think it would have been AWESOME to have China, but include South Korea and Japan. This would have given us that sense of scope including sea and islands, and that flexibility which isn’t afforded to a pure massive landmass. I SO wish we had gotten Egypt/Anatolia/Mesopotamia included in Troy… would’ve been so fricking awesome.
@@AndysTake Let's assume that Troy's not a great setting for terms of realism. Okay fine. If I were director at that game, I would have deliberately made the Mythos Mode a FLC for a year before putting it onto sale for £10-15. In the meanwhile, I would have said: Okay we're transforming this saga title into a major fantasy historical title. How? We simply embrace the mythos, expand the map, and add different cultures, new cities and such. Essentially we would have an Age of Mythology Total War that could be selling very well. Instead, the abandonment of Troy means no more Bronze Age titles because it has confirmed to CA that its not a very popular setting which is far from the case. If Age of Mythology is still being played and people still want a remaster, doesn't make sense to abandon what could have become a very lucrative product. But this is one person, one gamer's opinion. I don't work at CA, and this would be a heck of a job trying to convince higher ups to keep investing in the game etc. It's not an easy job and I respect the devs for making Troy what it needed to be in the first place!
Just do that, check the Shandong Mod in Med 2 on Modb and you will understand exactly what I'm talking about. Therre's an Imjin war mod as well! Plenty of stuff to be done here on that matter.
I made a video discussing that - but when I heard Troy was finished, it really made me sad. We need those nations, not one DLC! Otherwise that really isn't doing the Bronze Age justice.
I mean people want an Alexander saga so that includes the conquest of the Persian Empire, so let's include that all the way to India.
Yet for Troy, nah its a saga title, lets keep it small.....I just...*smh*
@@AndysTake The landmass of this game was very bog-heavy so it often felt a bit un-natural in terms of expansion. Adding Japan/Korea as you rightly point out, would have been a great move at least. The DLCs for this game should have gone Shogun 2 style. Avoid Eight Princes, include some of the more popular periods in history etc. Shogun 2 has the Rise of the Samurai to its fall. Something could have been done similar to this for 3k.
I like Chinese history and the Three Kingdoms era. I desperately wanted to love this game but I just grow bored of it quickly:/ The campaign map is beautiful and atmospheric and all the character interactions is great on paper but for me it got tedious over time, yet I like such things in other games.
Despite having a lot of depth and the best diplomacy in maybe any TW game, somehow this game feel very linear and lack the sandbox feel or open endedness of Rome or Medieval 2 which I liked so much. For me TW has always had an historical backdrop but the world is a blank canvas for you to create your own history from a set date or period. This is true for Three Kingdoms in theory but the more established and detailed setting with spesific characters removed those elements from the game for me. Also I didn't like the battles. They feel very arcady so I always skip them.
In the end the game was fun enough but felt like a lesser version of a Paradox game for me. I like the campaign part of Three Kingdoms but there are other games out there souly focusing on that aspect that does a better job. There is nothing inherently wrong with Three Kingdoms or any modern TW title. They have just shifted from the older formula and are not for me:) I find more of that older TW spirit I like in games like Crusader Kings 3 and hopefully Knights of Honor 2 when it finally releases despite being very different games from TW in many ways.
Thanks for sharing your well thought out opinions!
The main problem with Three Kingdoms is that many of dynasties were sea fairing (on the East Coast where till this day China’s biggest population is). One of the biggest historic sea battles took place at that time (Red Cliff). Without ships on rivers or sea, China becomes as you say; mostly an open field. Fighting to capture islands like Hainan, Taiwan etc could have been interesting and made it more like taking Shikoku in Shogun 2. Them cutting sea-warfare and making it way too fantasy driven is why I held off on it.
Three Kingdoms ear in China is actually super fascinating, it's basically Game of Thrones without the dragons and magic and fantasy, but equally if not larger than life characters and more political backstabbing, intrigues, mind games and military strategies than any other work of fiction.
if they made a total war about only asia for example and europeans to appear like europeans in the shogun 2 like special units or trade it will be fine , imagine India, persia or otoman empire (depends on the timeline) mongol empire ,south asia and japan, it will be interesting to play a total war asia game .
That would’ve been amazing! Would love a Total War Asia stretching from the Ottoman Empire to Japan, possibly with emerging European invasions as opposed to the mongol invasions in Medieval II
ottomans without including europe would suck major ass, their whole thing was to be the successor of rome (their ambitions at least) hence the former sultanate of rum(rome) and mehmed the conqueror titling himself kaysar-i rum
This is exactly the kind of review I'd like for every game. The way you tell us what you like and what you don't, but still keeping it fair. I especially appreciate the way you recommend to wait for a sale OR don't buy at all! This is what makes me feel this is not a paid review like so many other reviewers, who tend to shy away from not recommending something for some reason, or you get the feeling that they're sneakily trying to get you to buy it anyway. Honest reviews is what I look for when I'm interested in a game, and that's what I got. Keep it up!
It is funny how someone reviews something as negative while someone else reviews same thing as hilight of the game.
For me naming the factions after the leader, which each have their own traits and personality that affects the relationship with said faction is the best part of Three Kingdoms. Instead of dealing with concept of nation which often lack personality, you are dealing with leader of the nation. It gives so much more meaning to diplomatic relationships for me. Some leaders are likable, some are just bricks. Oh Jing Choa betreayed me? I take that personally! Time to hunt his head and never trust him again! His successor seems like a good lad tho! Maybe I can later rekindle our friendship with them.
Honestly, this is the best game for new players to total war. Whether veteran total war players like it as much as Rome 2 or shogun 2 etc, if anyone is interested in this type of game but hasn't ever played one, three kingdoms is the best.
As someone who grew up in China. And grew up playing three kingdoms total war medieval 2 Chinese mod back in China. This was quite such a gift. But nothing will ever top that medieval 2 three kingdom mod. Or the original Rome total war Three kingdom mod. Those were pure gold. With rivers and mountains and choke point castles. It was magnificent.
I don’t believe any westerners had heard of the games I talked about because I can’t even find footage of those games on UA-cam. But hear me out. Imagine medieval 2 and Rome 1. Exact same mechanics. But it is three kingdom China. It was beautiful.
Cheers for the vids Andy, in love your insight into total war. One of my other interests is economics and finance, and I thought it would be amazing if global finance mechanics could be introduced to a total war game. E.g. A Medieval 3 where you could take loans from another faction (like The Medici of Florence) to build up your army and infrastructure, but if you default on the repayments you risk being declared war on and invaded by your creditor (e.g. Florence in this example) or by their allies.
Thank you so much, Sam! And I agree, would love more economic and finance mechanics, and loans could definitely be one of them.
Great video, nice review! I just got Xbox Game Pass and was checking to see if this is worth playing. Chinese person here, the more you talked about the cons of the game, the more I appreciate it and want to play it, lol. Because the cons you mentioned are exactly how the history was and how it played out and such. So I guess the devs really did their homework and is trying their best to represent it. Great stuff.
I have watched a good bit of your content and I appreciate you and your opinion. I may agree or disagree at times, but I always respect you. Thanks for the awesome content and sub earned sir!
So you essentially possess an arbitrary unwillingness to learn about or appreciate Chinese history on its own merits. That's your loss, but don't try to pass that off as any form of valuable insight or valid criticism. No matter how hard you try to find subjective nitpicks with its UI (which is amazing IMO), TW3K is the best historical Total War yet.
compared to other total war games especially warhammer i dont know how anyone can badmouth 3k UI...
I'm about to age myself, but for someone who has played the first Romance of the Three Kingdom games from Koei on NES (you kids can check in a museum for what that is 😏), Total War ROT3K is more than a worthy successor to Three Kingdom based games.... Everything from battles, to diplomacy, it is near perfect... Though I wish they would bling out the named characters a bit more, so they would stand out..... Chalk it up to playing Dynasty Warriors too much too....
Hahaha I get it man, don’t worry. A lot of people are saying the same, and I totally understand!
I don’t agree with faction number. It’s good there is a lot diversity to play that’s good you can stick to recommender lords 😊
2:16 that is a perfect frame. Hell of an eye for getting a good shot there.
I think this game has the most to offer in any historical total war game. The battles, the duels, the logistics, mustering, spies, negotiating, etc. So many quality of life improvements in this game. To me, 3k is the BEST total war game out there. Warhammer is a solid second place, to me. I love Warhammer. I grew up on it. But I got into TW via historical titles. Warhammer is a fantastic adoption into the TW genre, don't get me wrong. 3k is amazing and that's coming from someone who had their doubts when the game was announced.
I certainly understand the issue with the geography of China. But understanding that there aren't bodies of water separating people from one another might influence your understanding of why ancient China was the way it was. There's nothing separating you from your "enemy."
I also wasn't a massive fan of the faction name changing with the name of its leader. That is confusing but I mean... you usually referred to factions as dynasties or as families. Just like you'd refer to Athenians vs Spartans. Or how you would separate the germanic tribes of Germania. At least that's how I understood it.
As a Dynasty warriors fan who played the series from Dynasty warriors 2 all the way to Samurai warriors 4 & Warriors Orochi 3 but also a total war fan who played 4 of the latest totalwar games (beside Rome Totalwar 1 & TW Shogan2) i was so happy they released Three Kingdoms Totalwar, honestly after Atilla which is my all time favorite Total war game, i fell in love with TW3K because how accurate it resembled the Legend of the Three kingdoms of china ,i would say my three most favourite TW games are Attila, Shogan2 & TW3K
Three Kingdoms Total War was perhaps the last total war game gearing towards historical authenticity (Because The Romance of the 3 Kingdoms fictional novel was also based on historical Records as well), everything else after 3KTW will be either half history or full fantasy. I doubt CA will ever make Medieval 3. Now, I would rather prefer them to make a Sci Fi Total War game inspired by Alpha Centauri and Civilisation Beyond Earth game by Feraxis.
Pharaoh seems pretty historically to me
I really enjoyed Total War 3 kingdoms. I am really excited for the sequel they are working on. I am really excited to learn a bit more of Chinese history while playing the game.
As someone that absolutely loves the game, i agree with what you think. This game is a must play for anyone that likes three kingdom games, or want to discover the time period. But people that don't enjoy that time period, or don't care, can easily skip it to instead play Rome II attila or shogun II
3K is a game that's "character-focused" instead of "nation-focused". It's better compared to Rome 2 campaign packs like "Empire Divided" or "Imperator Augustus", which builds off of recognizable names like Augustus, Mark Anthony, Pompey, etc. Since the main inspiration for the game is the semi-historical epic novel "Romance of the Three Kingdoms", with its leviathan number of characters and "Game of Thrones-like" intrigues and back and forth plot development, your appreciation of the game is really let down by your lack of understanding of the historical period and novel. But your POV is also very valid and probably a big reason why the game never really picked up steam (heh) with Western audiences.
Also a further point I just noticed while writing this comment was how much our current geo-political understanding of the world is shaped by the concept of "nation-states" - a concept that wasn't really a real thing until the late-18th century. Perhaps in this way, 3K's character driven diplomacy was incidentally more representative of history. Just an interesting observation.
Thank you so much for the comment! And you’re 100% correct. Like I said in the video, and which you mentioned, this is my POV, and bears the lack of experience with ROTK mythology and history. At the same time, you are correct in that the concept of the nation state is new, however, we have plenty of examples of states being the name of countries in the past, like Rome, Persia etc, OR dynasty names taken that role, which it would eventually do in China (Ming etc). However, I am not disputing this, only saying that, from a gameplay perspective, it is much easier and more convenient to use state names than character names for example, at least in my view :)
@@AndysTake I think it's because of how TW in the past has streamlined how a faction "functions." Like it's a unitary state, and you command as the head executive with generals to move about and paint the map with your colors. Generic named faction leaders come and go, but the State endures and blobs its way with little other interaction other than war. You derive satisfaction in recreating old events or overhaul it by repainting the map in your faction colors.
With a character-focused TW, your state is a vehicle for that character's ambition to claim the Mandate of Heaven (tm), his particular actions even have ramifications within the faction, like the guanxi campaign mechanic (oath bros and rivals), campaign dillemas, and the unique campaign mechanics tailored from his/her historical background. Whilst in nation-focused, the unique flavor was due to what the nation-state was known for. You suddenly start to care that the three generals on your one army stack have become oath brothers and have passive buffs from coordinating their actions. You also start to notice characters have their own modus, derived the accounts, of them being sneaks or backstabbers.
"lack of experience with ROTK mythology and history. "
As for the geography, I think it can be rectified a bit, just know the location of the Yellow and Yangtze River, you cant miss it, its the 2 widest river body depicted in the campaign map that bisects the landmass horizontally. Yellow River holds more warlords due to its importance and the center of "civilization" and Louyang, the Imperial Capital is there. The closer you are, the more clustered it becomes with smaller regions and tightly packed cities and gate passes. Southwards and westwards you go, and below Yangtze, and its "frontier" territory. Deserts in the west, and thick jungles in the south.
As for the lack of experience, dont worry, I think its best to approach it with a personal bias, instead of choosing what nation appeals to you based on historic grounds/cool factor/background/nationalism. Choose which warlord suits your personality and how you interact in the campaign map, which does not require a background knowledge. Blunder your way to interacting with other unique characters and make your own "Romance".
I'd agree that if you are totally foreign to the history and background many things would seem confusing. Being a born Chinese (who later immigrated to Canada), I felt the same when I first played Europe-based medieval games like CK3 or Total War Rome. It's really just about knowledge and as long as you get famaliar with it, things will go smoother and smoother until it becomes natural.
As mentioned in 8:24, the factions were named under each leader's name because historically they indeed operated under individual warlords. But I do agree in a gameplay perspective, they should be more distinguished from each other like in Warhammer 3 regarding Cathay factions. For example, Liu Dai's faction can be named something along the line of "Defenders of the Yan Province" and Liu Biao's "Jing's Guardian" which would be more friendly to people who are foreign to the history.
As for the geographical confusion, you could check out another franchise called Romance of Three Kingdom, namely the 9th, 11th and 14th in the sequel. They did a quite good job differentiating one location from another.
This is my first TW game and im in love. Are there any others (Non-Warhammer) that have the same or similar Diplomacy options like 3K?
Yes, Troy has the same type where you can see the decisions by the numbers etc :) but 3K has deeper diplomacy mechanics overall
@@AndysTake also do you have combat guides? I’m really good at resource management and diplomacy guy always simulate the battles because I get thrashed and have no idea what I’m doing
@@lostprophecy7593 hmm no I don’t have combat guides but that’s a good idea actually!
@@AndysTake regardless you earned my sub 😎
@@lostprophecy7593 thanks a lot, mate! 😎
this game was made for dynasty warrior fans lol. I recognize every warlord name and faction just because of those games
Disagree with the landscape opinion. Having played Koei's ROTK games geography makes a huge difference in strategies you can employ. It's all on CA not making rivers defensible or strategic nor implementing all different chokepoints.
Perfect review! Exactly what I feel about this game.
And yes, I also love and can't wait for the next historical TW game using all the good inovations in Three Kingdoms and correcting everything you pointed out.
Medieval 3, Empire 2, Shogun 3, Pike and shot era? Who cares? As long as it is a historical!!!
Thank you, Agni! :D
china is definitely a good choice since it was never previously done. I do think an expansion to add in areas like Korea, Japan, and the mongols would have done a lot to increase variety
i understand your problems with the ui (i too had some difficulties with it) but it realy is just a matter of being willing to adapt to new things.
the ui in 3k is actually pretty neat, once you know where things are positioned. sure it's not perfect, but there are quite a lot of worse total war games ui vise.
This is so bizarre. Listening to your complaints and then seeing how gorgeous and epic the gameplay is...this convinced me to buy the game more than anything lmao.
It might be overwhelming at first but a lot of us TW fans were ecstatic to get this huge scale in both battles and campaign back to TW after Warhammer kind of toned everything down and the subsequent historical titles were smaller and more focused to specific events like Atilla
Kinda BS they stop at yuan shao VS cao cao then skip to 8 princes while never touching the actual 3 kingdoms period
My thoughts too :/
idk man, i got bored of this game and not really a fan of it but your takes in this review are wild and sometimes dont make sense
how do they not make sense
@@AndysTake painfully eurocentric and just because you're self aware of how eurocentric you are doesn't suddenly make it a valid point. Acting like there's nothing interesting to be done in China and that everything in China is samey is extremely ignorant and disrespectful. Most of your "rants" could just be summed up with that you don't care about Chinese history or the setting and you aren't interested in caring and yet for some reason you've decided to review a game that hinges on chinese history.
It would be like someone reviewing Total War Rome and saying that everything is the same and sucks because they just wanted to play more Warhammer III and they don't care about european history, and then went on to say that Europe's map sucks because it's visually boring compared to WHIII
A good majority of your criticisms could have been summed up by you saying you're just disappointed that you didn't get another medieval game
Play games like ROTK and the warriors series for a bit then come back to this game. It really does have a lot to do with the setting than bad choices in design. I found all of the mechanics you had personal gripes about to be things I thought were changes made to compliment the setting well. I think this is true for all of the settings. So many people have ancestry from the Mediterranean and tend to trace their cultural roots back to ancient roman times(not necessarily the country) that we have an easier time understanding mechanics based on our cultures..