The DCEU's Kryptonian Race Has A Problem | READUS 101
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- Опубліковано 29 тра 2024
- The DCEU’s Kryptonian Race Has A Problem || Man of Steel, the first film in the DCEU, features a take on Krypton and the Kryptonian race that made me question a few creative decisions regarding Superman’s origins. And after seeing what Man of Steel writer David Goyer took from Kryptonians in the comics and how he used it in the first Snyderverse movie, I think I know what it is about how the DCEU’s Kryptonian lore -- and how its changes affect Superman -- make me glad that the DCEU is getting rebooted
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00:00 Introduction
04:48 Krypton Was A Utopia
15:23 Where Did “Man of Steel” Go Wrong?
30:55 When It Comes To Zod
35:21 Conclusion
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#dceu #manofsteel #snyderverse
• The DCEU's Kryptonian ... - Розваги
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HOMELESS 👏🏾 KRYPTONIANS 👏🏾
my question about the clone wars is why didn't they just clone the organs on their own rather than cloning an entire person as organ banks? what were they thinking.?
A good point! And it just adds more support to the argument that Kryptonians didn't have to go the route of imperialism in order to be depicted as malleable!
Yeah it didn't make sense to me when I watched Krypton. Actually a lot of that show didn't make sense.
Point well taken.
Too well; thanks for the eardrum damage.
Unhoused Kryptonians
What rubs me the wrong way about the DCEU? Before anything else, it was that they made Superman a Jesus figure instead of a Moses figure and leaned HARD into that theming and symbolism. Because heaven forbid post-9/11 audiences have to confront a story with non-Christian elements. As a kid with a lot of Jewish heritage who was raised Christian, I always appreciated the way Clark connected to the part of me that I wasn't supposed to acknowledge (unless a teacher had me stand up to demonstrate "what Jews look like"). Ripping that away from him along with his fundamental goodness always felt personal to me.
See, I never see supes as a Moses figure beyond being sent away as a baby to save him. I don't remember who pointed it out, some show/retrospective look at superman beginnings, but I always see parallels with the golem, as a defender of the people. But I am not Jewish, I am looking at it from outside the culture and comparing broad stroke stories and so I'm not claiming I am right or know all the subtleties involved. I can wholeheartedly agree that making him a christ-like figure is pretty far from what he should be, though.
I am so angry at that teacher!
I find the whole Kal=Moses is not the 1:1 comparison so many think it is though. Kal-El was born to a noble family and raised by farmers, Moses was born to slaves and raised by the royal family. Also, Kal chooses his adopted people and home, Moses (rightfully) chose his birth people.
And the DCEU hardly was the first or only thing to indulge in messianic imagery for Superman. FFS, Richard Donner got death threats back in 1978 for his movie having Jesus-y imagery.
Superman has been paralleled with Jesus for decades mate. Superman the Movie 1978, the copycat remake Superman Returns 2006, the 2000s CW show Smallville, the comics, animation, etc. Long before MOS 2013.
@@creativefreedomcomics5540 The men who created Superman Jerry Siegel and Joe Schuster were Jewish immigrants who created Superman to express how they felt about coming here I'm pretty sure the LAST person they would want Superman to be compared to it's Jesus I can also see the Moses comparison but only to a point
I think so many writers are stuck in seeing the way things are as the way they'll always be. Homeless kryptonians because homelessness is an assumed universality and not a solvable problem. But it IS a solvable problem. It's why I've been diving into solarpunk scifi. There's hope that we can solve the problems we face, and that the way things are, isn't how they'll always be.
That stagnant thinking is common when I see people banging on about realism. The idea that modern science can't do it, so it must be impossible. The idea that there wouldn't be new problems distinct to this fictional society, so they still have all of ours, just copied and pasted.
Zod and Bayformer Megatron have the same issues, where they are evil, but at the same time they are fighting the complete extinction of their own people and the hero effectively do nothing against that worst underling problem even though it's not hard to imagine some way that benefit everyone.
@@ynat2198 That why I have to specify it apply to the bayformer, since they are so many transformers version.
Is it "fighting" extinction if you missed the extinction event?
I think it makes sense when you also have irl different ethnic groups who would genocide another.
I didn’t see Last Knight cause I was done with Bayformers when it was coming out, but I never really read Prime in those movies, for all his war criminal leanings, as accepting of the Cybertronian race going extinct. His sim was a peaceful existence on Earth without the conquest Megatron desired. If you mean the destruction of the AllSpark specifically, then I think you’ve got a point. These movies became such a mess that I’m not even entirely sure how to really analyze them in terms of coherent character morals and whatnot
Now you know how Wonder Woman fans feel about Azzarello's and Morrison's takes on the Amazons.
With Man of Steel at least it is implied the Kryptonians didn't start out this way and really it's only Zod's group that is despecable.
Or what they did in the New 52 with the New Gods. Did they not realize the point of New Genesis and Highfather is that they're the opposite of Apokolips and Darkseid, not that they're essentially the same?
Is that the one where they SA sailors, kill them, then sell any boys they birth to Hephaestus? Because if so, I am with you on despising that.
Edit: don't tell me they made High Father evil too.
@@bthsr7113 He's basically a fascist dictator in the New 52, a decision that still baffles me
Thanks for going so deep into this. I couldn’t really understand why the writer seemed to have a strange contempt for the pre-crisis Superman lore and now I have a much better idea. Loved this video a lot 💕
Your production and scripting seem to be improving (my mom walked in and really liked your delivery, she stayed to watch despite not generally caring about comics) so congrats on all the hard work, it’s showing!
Realizing how much Thanos would have a Field Day with Krypton
I actually think its funny that all these self-described objectivists can't imagine an arrogant socialist society. Goodness, at least imagine a different enemy.
I've always had my own headcanon for the evolution and extinction of the kryptonians that is probably not going to be popular with some fans because it leans into Superboy's "Tactile Telekinesis" lore, which I generally like and think works extremely well when generalized as the real source of Kryptonian powers. It is a device that makes sense of how Superman can fly and how he can hold a plane by the nose without it breaking in half or how he can move objects like planes in free space with nothing to push off of while also explaining all this stuff as a single power with multiple manifestations rather than just a laundry list of random powers, and one that I feel suspends disbelief less in terms of energetics when one assumes these abilities are powered by the sun. He's functionally doing this stuff telekinetically, but it's not an ability kryptonians can control and so has to be triggered by sensible physical interactions.
One other thing that has always bothered me about kryptonian powers is that they only work in conditions they didn't evolve under, and apparently do nothing when under the light of a red sun, and this is where my theory for what lead to the fall of Krypton comes in. I headplode that, under the lower energy conditions of their own planet, Kryptonian tactile telekinesis effectively just makes Kryptonians lucky. Off the wall ideas are more likely to work out and low probability dangers are even less likely. This conferred obvious advantages both in terms of survival and in threading the needle of creating a utopian society, but it also introduced a fundamental bias that they couldn't see like fish in water.
Kryptonians evolved to overvalue their own inductive reasoning and to underevaluate unlikely risks, possibly developing a system of scientific analysis where capital T "Truth" could be ascertained, in their minds, via induction. Arrogance became fundamental to their very methods of learning about the world. As a consequence of this sort of cosmic privilege, they never fully developed that healthy sense of doubt and skepticism that is the mainstay of scientific practice on earth and millenia of tiny errors and small inefficiencies, over time, built up into one big disaster that the Kryptonians, being unable to even imagine that systems that have operated without fail for thousands of years could be about to bring the planet to ruin, ignored all the warnings of. It is likely that less lucky, less impressive species would have picked up on these issues long before they hit catastrophic levels, but the kryptonians were blind to it for the same reason they so easily reached that place to begin with.
What really rubbed me wrong (pause) was the cowardness of Jonathan Kent. He literally told his son that maybe he should've let kids die, and committed suicide in front of his family. No one taught Clark how to be a good person.
Thank you for the video, La'Ron!
Having watched the Man of Steel movie and both seasons of the Krypton TV series, your essay did make me realize how much both medias keep trying to label their versions of the Kryptonian society as utopias. They are definitely not. By removing the alien aesthetics and some science fiction concepts, they are actually very good proxies to our contemporaneous society. In the case of the TV series, Krypton has a caste system, people living in poverty, religious zealotry, and a lot political and military manipulation for power and status. The TV series happening 200 years before the destruction of Krypton made me believe that they would be able to get their sh*t together and become an utopia at some point during that time.
Oh, here a spoiler for the second season of the Krypton TV series: after General Zod appearing by traveling back in time, he takes control over Krypton by establishing an authoritarian regime. Zod also brainwashes a younger version of his own mother in order to make her follow his command without questions. And his justification for that is always "doing evil for the greater good"... of Krypton.
“General Zod’s January 6th” 🤣💀
I really hope they get Tim Drake right. He's my favorite DC character and the Batman stuff starting with Damian is the only part of the announcement that has me worried.
I also want to see Etrigan. I don't care where. He needs to be there.
A good Etrigan movie or show would rock. Even if he's not the star. But that requires him and the rest of the characters to be done justice
Your dreams of them giving any sort of justice to Tim Drake are dead! They don't even do right by him jn the comics anymore. They just keep taking aspects from him and gluing them onto other Robins! )
@@jerfuhrer2581 “Faith Alfred, Faith!”
I hope so, too, and I'm still confused about starting with Damian since the Superman movie is supposed to be him younger is I believe, so idk how that'll play out. Also, just the other batkids but ig we'll see
@@imverygay7572 also with how Superman helped Dick with his transition into Nightwing
Literally everything with Wonder Woman. They harp on Diana being a feminist icon, but forget that she is a ancient warrior in the process. She's Greek and I didn't see her use any wrestling moves at all in two movies. As much as she is a "strong woman", Diana is millennia old warrior and the live-action just reserves her to the woman of the group and not an equal member of DC's Trinity. WW84 pissed me off so bad in the depiction of Diana. Them having Diana give a “We are the World” speech that didn’t move me at all; was baffling. Also when they zoomed in on Diana’s face during her speech, her makeup was impeccable (because god forbid the colonizer playing a WARRIOR princess not look photoshoot ready). Not a smudge or smear in sight, after having a semi-decent fight with Cheetah ending the fight by electrocuting-drowning her. She has perfect eyeliner and mascara in makeup from 1984. Also her hair is perfectly coiffed and going from water to being smacked around by Max Lord’s wish wind. Compared to Barbara at the end who rightfully looks like a drowned cat. Wonder Woman wouldn’t care if her hair and makeup looked good, she also wouldn’t have talked down Max Lord she would’ve put hands on him. While WW84 Max Lord isn’t Comic book Max Lord, who by the way Diana killed. Also Diana wouldn’t have been so hellbent on keeping Steve cause she know better.
Colonizer= back in her ancestral home is a colonizer now. Yeah like Jews for 2000 years have had such a good time living in other people's countries! Let them have their home! The former occupiers didn't do a single thing with it.
You can argue the way they are treating Palestinians buts that's their home historically and they were almost wiped out 70 years or so ago.
@@Thiago_Alves_Souza You're literally using white supremacist logic. It wouldn't matter if the Palestinians literally sat there inert for most of the week and never did anything with the land. Stuffing them into cramped zones and denying them a voice in politics is wrong. Your logic is the logic that literally originates from colonialism. Manifest Destiny. The white man's burden. Civilizing the savage lands. All of that is just pretense.
Nobody is saying Jewish people haven't had it historically rough. But going to a populated area 2,000 years after your ancestral civilization ruled it doesn't entitle you to pillage anyone there to make space for yourself. Especially considering, again this is all pretense. It was literally colonial territory controlled by Europeans that was later decided to be the place for them to banish Jewish people to with little regard for the ramifications of.
@@Thiago_Alves_Souzatrying to bomb another people out of existence isn’t justifiable by any means, no matter who claims to own what land. The Nazis being worse doesn’t make the Israeli government not evil.
@@Cdr2002 buddy, that land was the ancient kingdom of Israel that they were forced out of by the Romans and forbidden to re-establish by the European powers. The Palestinians were pretty much in support of Hitler killing them off as the mufti kept praising the eradication of Jews.
Israelis are back to their land and made it flourish while Palestinias did fuck all with it.
I'm not saying they should suffer under Israeli government and bombardment, but Arabs in Israel are also awarded citizenship while Palestine is ruled by terrorist factions hellbent on slaughtering people.
What rubs ME the wrong way in regards to the DCEU is that it’s trying to chase/mimic Christopher Nolan’s style and failing. Miserably. Because that dark, broody shit might work for Batman, but it sure as shit doesn’t for Superman and Wonder Woman. And it doesn’t even work with Batman all that well, either, or those in his orbit (read: the Bat-Fam).
This is why, even though it’s cheesy as hell, the CW Arrow/Flash/DC shows are the best live action iterations of the comics, period, full stop. Hell, the version of Supes we get in Superman and Lois is considered excellent, if the Twitter buzz I hear is anything to go by.
This is why, in addition to preferring the CW DC shows over the movies, I primarily watch tokusatsu (mainly Ultraman). At least Japanese screenwriters understand what a superhero is supposed to be AND, more to the point, WHY they do what they do.
TL;DR: La’Ron, for the love of god, WATCH AND REVIEW ULTRAMAN. Any entry will do, just…please watch Ultraman.
PS: Yes. I *did* imply that Christopher Nolan is solely responsible for ruining the DCEU with the Dark Knight trilogy. Fucking fight me, cowards.
Even if Lois and Superman end up losing steam and not end well, those first five minutes of the pilot? Perfect.
if a campy Batman can work, a dark Superman and Wonder Woman can work as well. you nerds need to grow up. And those CW shows are dogshit. Sit down
Regé-Jean Page could have been in the DC? The best Orpheus could have been grandpa to Clark and Kara?!
Orpheus as in the one from Greek myth?
@@DavidRYates-tk2tq yes, but the version I'm talking about is from The Sandman audio drama.
It bothers me that Cyborg is so miserable. I like the idea that he's the happiest guy in the room. Him being brooding makes it feel like his disabilities ruin his life, when he should be someone happily living with them
I agree with that. Even if one feels sad missing their original body, it's hard to deny that being a full-body cyborg like that is actually... Kind of cool? I mean, especially with how versatile his mechanical body is, he seems to be able to make almost any technology with it. If I were horribly injured, and my choices were between some really bad ones and the way less bad choice of becoming a cyborg like that, I'd choose becoming a cyborg.
Loved the video. My biggest irk in the DCEU was that the characteristics of Lex and Bruce seemed muddled. Why was Batman a xenophobic rich guy out to stop Supes while Luthor was the brilliant detective who knew the identities of the whole Justice League?
#makebatmanadetectiveagain
So glad you tackled this 🤗
Since we're talking about Kryptonians, one of the many things that rubbed me the wrong way was how they made a big deal to show his symbol stood for hope and yet he was the most hopeless ass hero!
I'm hoping the new DCU is treated like the DC Rebirth comics where hope and aspects that make the characters enjoyable are added back to the stories they're gonna make
Well hopefully not to similar.
If krypton gets destroyed by an angry complicated Grey monster I’ll be angry
Great vid! I feel like it should be possible to put reasonable limits on Kryptonians without making them imperial hubris generators. Maybe the crystal tech is a natural occurence that they more harnessed then invented. So the paradise effect is only partially their accomplishment. It's environmental like a Christmas tree forest. Are they smart? Sure,but they also just didn't waste being the space version of French coastals. All of the resources needed to have an emerging bisexual middle class were there. They maximized that. So it's believable in the sense that there are sophisticated suburbanites in French Canada. You can give folks a good opportunity if you don't spoil them.
Another issue I see with Man of Steel's Krypton is the inconsistency of the same civilization's home planet blowing up, despite invading Earth with terraforming technology that would have saved it. Logically, Krypton would have exploded because it wasn't a Dysonian civilization capable of terraforming, Dyson spheres or other mega structures. It could still be a solarpunk utopia since those are based on near-future energy sources such as solar, wind, geothermal, etc., not far-future tech such as the World Engines. Its explosive apocalypse could be a natural disaster, rather than caused by strip-mining its core. You're right in saying that Kryptonian imperialism, while relatable to Earthlings, is inconsistent because it would have scattered billions of Kryptonian survivors all over the universe, thus robbing Superman of his uniqueness. The Birthing Matrix class programming robs Zod and all other Kryptonian characters of their agency. He could plausibly disagree with the Kryptonian Council and Jor-El due to fascism and his own imperialism, perhaps nostalgia for the pre-utopian Kryptonian history of a scarcity economy, feudal caste system, and space colonization. Perhaps his ancestor was a dictator and war criminal overthrown in a revolution. The rebels founded the Council and caused the reforms and alternative fuels that made Krypton a solarpunk utopia.
my least favorite part about the dc extended universe is the lack of Poison Ivy.
Honestly, I noticed a couple issues with the DCEU that should've been fixed earlier.
1. They probably should've used the guy that played Flash on the CW for the films. He's easier on the eyes and seemed to have a better personality than that Miller critter.
2. With the personality they gave Cheetah in Wonder Woman 1984 (timid, insecure doormat who becomes fierce), they could've used Silver Swan instead.
3. This one's a bit more personal opinion, but perhaps Cyborg's appearance could've been a combination of Teen Titans (original cartoon) and Injustice.
That's all the points I can think of just off the top of my head.
The 'collectivism' of Krypton in Man of Steel is very obviously fascism, down to having a Menegle-like doctor character who draws Superman's blood. Taking seriously an idea of 'collectivism' that ties fascism and leftism together is giving Rand, a deeply unserious thinker, way more credit than the film does. Without Rand as a lens, there is no reason at all to assume that a society where standing is determined by eugenics is supposed to represent socialist values, or that tropes about the importance of the individual are anything more than the liberal values that have been dominant in the west for forty years.
In general I think you've missed the point of the codex/birthing matrix stuff - the fact that Jor-el 'breaks free' of it isn't a special quality he possesses and no-one else has the option to take, it's proof that the whole thing is bogus. Their entire society is built on this myth. This is reflected in Zod, supposedly the perfect soldier, staging a coup. It's a complete sham but the belief in it, the belief in the supremacy of this form of society, is what animates Zod - akin to Nazi veneration of the history of Imperial Germany, even as they didn't look to restore the Kaiser to the throne.
I'm also a little confused by your insistence on Krypton being an object to aspire to - the first two words even in All-Star Superman are "Doomed planet".
Krypton has never been a “utopian society”
It’s either been destroyed by it’s own hubris or it is just a society that unfortunately had a sun blow up next to it.
Yeah, socialists and communists and anarchists (I'm the latter, an Anarcho-Pacifist specifically) don't tend to like eugenics, because it's more of a Nazi thing lol
I'll say this for Krypton: I thought the point of the show was to show how Krypton became a Utopian society. It starts out poorly, but we see multiple heroes who talk about plans to improve the situation of the Rankless, with Kem's character being important to that. Honestly I adored the show.
while i never dc comics so am not familiar with the lore as you are my issue was man of steel is on a different subject and that their portrayal of superman adoptive father. In the original first film it gave us a nice view of a man who care of his sun and he died in such a way that no matter how power superman had he couldn't save him. A harsh lesson on the reality of life. The 78 superman was hopeful and try to save as many as he could but knowing that sometimes even he can't save everyone.
In man of steel we got a father that tells his son that sometimes to hide his secrets he got to let people die. including signally him not to save him from a tornado. Which goes to what you were saying in fountain head that the what make life meaning is being selfish instead of finding meaning in doing what good and right.
and that is my major beef with man of steel. Him killing zod is just icing on that stupid cake
Even if there's Krypto-fascists, saying an entire dead planet, an entire race of people "had its chance" is a bizarre thing for Superman to say, and completely misses the point he should be making about what Zod is doing.
La'Ron! Where have you been? I missed you!
Welcome back!!
Thanks! I took a bit of a mental health break after releasing my video essay on The Batman, but I'm glad to be back! ☺
@@Readus101 there's few things more important than our mental health. I'm glad you're taking care of yourself; stick with it.
Wowee what a ripper of a video. Thanks for so sharply articulating all of this. Loved your insight about Zod, especially how his fascism works/doesn't work. Made me very inspired to do a DCEU rewrite video.
Another great video, La'Ron! Keep them coming! :)
Watched this whole video while getting unready; Your fairly consistent cadence in voice was very mellowing today
So, Goyer transformed Krypton... into Planet Vegetta. Very ironic.
My most hated DCEU flub?
Suicide Squad (2016) took June Moone/Enchantress, a dual character with much depth and so many interesting and subversive ways to portray her, and butchered both of them so completely that no one in Hollywood will want to touch them for the next 20 years minimum. Ugh!
There is a lot about Man of Steel that I don't like but two things in particular get under my skin. 1) All the wow is me Christ stuff, Clark is a dorky, idealistic and sincere guy to a fault, that's the character I love not Dav and Zack's edge-lord Christ. 2) It's so grey, where the hell is the colour, did they forget that they were making a Superman film?
At least Zod is a better villain then Batman V Superman take on Lex Luthor.
You have a very superficial definition of what hope and idealism mean.
To me, it's hard to feel any sense of hope from this version of Superman after, y'know, the NECK SNAP.
UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE!!! Love how you slipped that in there
Sounds like I made the right decision when I put New 52 Supergirl down after the first volume and picked up Woman of Tomorrow instead
I didn't read her solo New 52 run, but I read the "He'l on Earth" Superman event and was INCREDIBLY taken aback at the direction they went with her character.
It was fine for that first year, awkward as it was. Then Lobdell had to get involved with his dumbass crossover event. Twice.
Not chancing Woman of Tomorrow; I hate Tom Ming's writing with a passion.
@@christopherb501 Do yourself a favor and chance Woman of Tomorrow
Great video and essay as usual. Still can't believe we never got a Man of Steel 2. The only DCEU film I liked. After BVS I said I'm out. To even attempt such a premise in live action baffled me. Let alone, they decide to rush in The Justice League. Girl Byeeee. So over it. Superman is selfless yet the wanted to push this selfish and unaware Superman who was already in his 30s.
Thank you for another brilliant video, La'Ron! I'm really old, so to me, the only "true" Krypton is the Silver Age one!
Oh man, I never knew how the concepts about Kryptonian society worked into the Superman story! So fascinating!
I will push back slightly in that Post Crisis Krypton was depicted as being very restricted and humorless. This was done so that Clark would initially reject it and cling more to his Earthly upbringing to separate him from his Pre-Crisis behavior. They were also shown to be a little xenophobic
Think about this, if the kryptonians were Warrior Race with this kind of class system, they would almost be like the Klingons in Star Trek
@23:00 - @23:22 I felt this in my soul 😂❤ great vid
I had my headphones in and I had to turn the volume down for a minute 😭
Well... the Tomorrowverse seems to be shaping up pretty nicely tho it seems a bit more scattershot in terms of narrative-flow than the previous Animated set of movies. Still not convinced the Long Halloween movie(s) were meant to be part of it, originally...?
Anyway! Thanks for this awesome video, I loved your insight, research and explanations surrounding (obscure/often sidelined?) Superman Lore... and now I have some additional angles I can use to better articulate my problems with 'Man of Steel' that aren't jsut "Kal-El* is an indifferent, reckless, petty poo-poo face and his most prominent super-power was not getting caught before he could even put on the Superman suit... or after it to be honest."
(I see no 'Clark Kent' in him... that is, to me he's always Clark first, Superman second... And this version of the Kents did not raise a Clark Kent who I believe would have a truly meaningful and compassionate heart to heart with anyone, or even considers himself Part of Humanity).
How the fuck is he not a "good person"? Would you have saved Lex Luthor after everything he did in BvS? Saved your bully from drowning? Actually stand up for a woman getting sexually harassed?
You are a moron.
I hate that the only way so many writers etc can think of to make something more 'interesting' is to remove all the things that are supposed to give us hope, as if hope is not at all important and something that we could really do with right now while reality seems to be trending towards grimdark
Well done.
21:56 Their feet weren't nearly cold enough. They still haven't gone full clean slate.
Liking Ayn Rand should disqualify artists from making art
Small part of the video but the fact that they didn't think superman could be 1/8th black is wild to me. Especially since both Rege Jean Page and Henry Cavill have traditionally conventionally masculine attractiveness it wouldn't be unbelieve about that they're 2 generations apart.
Whether or not a society that has a history of being colonizers is capable of attaining a true utopia is genuinely interesting
“Turns out my trash is full of whatever the spiritual opposite of a literary diamond is” is both my home and one of my favorite kinds of media. Thank you :)
“Debating philosophy counts as a first act of war” *_AMERICA INTENSIFIES_*
“Superman series genuinely has a Never Let Me Go arc” holy shit
The “What if we got rid of the dark ages of abrahamic religious cults that blindsided human advancement” the men do would be easier to take in good faith if they addressed even one of their social biases before they did it.
How much capitalism and Biblical gender binarism is in these dudes’ world of the future.
That said as someone descended from and tantamount to a colonizer, I would like it So Much if we would stop in media trying to generate sympathy for colonizers. Like, no actually, we knew it was wrong the entire time. Looking another human being in the face and then deciding they are not human so you can take their rights and resources is an active decision
“Every single member of the house of Zod is canonically black in this series adaptation” *_W H A T_*
Oh that is very deeply not okay
These subtle little history lies where white people quietly put ourselves in the victim role despite *_creating all these problems_*
I knew I was going to hate Man of Steel when they functionally added sexism to the Kryptonians via the movie's focus on Jor instead of Lara. With the emphasis of Superman being the first natural birth in a 1000 years or whatever, Lara should have been front & center in the narrative. She's the one risking her life and well-being to undergo a dangerous, drawn out (presumably still around 9 month?) ordeal that all knowledge of medical treatment for was lost centuries ago. If the slightest thing goes wrong with her pregnancy or with the labor & delivery, she could become a martyr. SHE should be the True Believer in this scenario, maybe even a zealot for her & Jor's beliefs that acts as the foil to Zod.
By shoving her to the background of the narrative and acting like she's just a walking, talking womb orb who exists to carry out what are primarily Jor's wishes, it reeks of the same human sexism that's been around so long which said women's roles are just to shut up, provide heirs for their husbands, and have no opinions about it even if their life is at risk (and even though Lara obviously does believe in their ideology somewhat as well, she's clearly putting in the most effort and self-sacrifice but is also the one having second thoughts while Jor gets to be the True Believer despite his only contribution being to Stick It In & Wiggle It A Bit)
Also, I do not believe that a version of Ma and Pa Kent who say that "maybe" allowing a bus load of teenagers to die is the right thing to do would be capable of raising Superman as I know him (then again, maybe that's why the DCEU's Superman is so hard to recognize as Superman?) Don't get me wrong, in his place I probably would have said the same thing but I openly acknowledge that I could never raise a child to be as selfless and good as Superman. That's kinda the whole point of Ma & Pa Kent- their extraordinary parenting is as much to "blame" for how Superman turned out as Clark's alien physical capabilities.
This so much. That's one thing I like about the show Superman & Lois, we finally get to see more about Lara.
Lol as a fan of superman. The birth of superman should have more focus from his mother. She is more important than usually used. In the animated series from the late 90's she was used a bit but more respect and screen time goes to Momma Kent. In the man of steel and the animated series. Giving respect to the mother that raised Superman. Martha Kent in continuity has always wondered if she's doing the best for Superman and is this the life his birth mother wanted for him. She never folds. Nor makes him forget where he comes from. I believe you need to see into how strong Martha Kent in her convictions. Her character is need for Superman to become a man.
The movie isn't sexist. He spends most the movie trying to save the women in his life. Because these women have brought value to existence. That's love.
Those guilds go back to Burroughs vision of Venus
Ayn Rand fans doing the most to avoid confronting an utopia that is also comunist - the comic movie
Great video. I hope more people see you.
Good vid sir
Man "Man of Steel" was really 10 years ago huh
I can feel your anger when you said for the second time homeless kriptonians, I agree what was Goyer thinking?
The thing that rubbed me the wrong way about the DCEU was that, although I absolutely loved the first Wonder Woman movie, I didn't love what they did with the Greek myths. First, they just killed off all of the gods before the movie even started, and then they Christianized the myths so that Zeus was the benevolent God and Ares was Satan. Not only is that not how Greek mythology works, but it doesn't really allow for a whole lot of Wonder Woman's lore and side characters to be introduced.
I think what rubs me the wrong way is the writer/directors inability to understand that "no killing" doesn't just mean named characters or faces onscreen. If you, by your actions, blow up a car, take out part of an occupied building, or leave people to die in a fire... You are responsible for those deaths. Superman's "no kill" rule culminating at killing Zod rings pretty hollow after all the innocent people who definitely died because of buildings collapsing. Batman seems pretty kill happy when he destroys the cars of people pursuing him.
Yeah, the fact that neither Batman, Superman or Wonder Woman have no killing rules in the DCEU is the main reason I've abandoned it. And, yes, I think Wonder Woman should have one too. I think it's a mistake even in the comics to depict her as a bloodthirsty psychopath. Ugh. But especially Batman and Superman should have such a rule! DCEU Batman is way worse about it than DCEU Superman, though, he is essentially a spree killer lol
Honestly, I'm really stuck on the "New 52 Kara is Frieza Saga Vegeta" comment lol because I haven't read much of New 52 Supergirl and, though I do enjoy Vegeta during the Frieza Saga, I know that sort of personality wouldn't fit Supergirl.
I love everything about all of this.
Funny I see this recommended to me while I'm reading the death of superman 🤣
TY FOR THIS VIDEO
Something I liked um...Ben as Batman. I still want to see what his Batmovie would of been like. But then I think with some creative writing Martha can be saved.
Why did you say that name?!(Affleck growling voice)
We must make our gods human. First to bring them down to our understanding, and then to elevate ourselves as their successors.
Krypton can only ever fail. We, as humans, do not resonate to stories in which we see our betters. Our smug superiority stems from inability to look at our own failures.
If we have to admit fault, well, the gods themselves are faulty. See?
WOW!!!
Excellent video I saw both seasons of krypton and knowing what we know now about the development yeah David s goyer lost his damn mind HOMELESS KRYPTONIAS
What if Superman would throw himself at someone like he did in BvS but like... swirled, front flipped as he caught the terrorist so the wall hits his own back? Would the dude survive? Since Supes would take the brunt of the impact of the concrete wall with his back (and most likely pass through like butter), could the terrorist had survived?
@@helderoliveira2994 first, I just rewatched the scene 0.25X and he does 'not' do that. Second, I campaigned for the Snyder Cut which was FUCKING AMAZING! So who here is deriving pleasure from lying with baseless claims, hmm? Get lost!
The movie didn't really clarify either way whether or not Superman killed that guy. Yeah, we could say "nobody would survive that in real life" but people survive things they shouldn't in movies all the time. Technically, Bruce in The Batman shouldn't have survived hitting that bridge when he was doing his wingsuit escape from the police station (though his armor clearly somehow distributes incoming force over his entire body in order to dissipate it, or else even the smaller bullets would still probably knock him down even if they didn't go through the suit).
6:00
*Most lame writers writting Superman* :"How am I supposed to write Superman when he's perfect? What am I supposed to write? A perfect man in an imperfect world? I don't see no conflict there!"
So they made the birthing matrixes...like in Dragon Ball. Except in reverse because only the best got to be together while the weakest and poorest had to have theirs at home.
I don't remember much either from Krypton. Were they homeless or just houseless. Meaning they still lived in the property but just couldn't participate in the politics? It's still bad, of course, but also I thought this series was about the development of a better Krypton, not the perfect society we read in the comics.
@@The_TonyG oh yeah, they did have that underbelly seedy side of town that they went to every now and then.
Hey also Superman 2 was a brilliant movie. The actors really sold their roles.
Right I’ve been a marvel person for decades and just now trying to get into DC. I
Just watched aqua man last night and I hated how blacks were treated and the ideologies that were being implied. It’s frustrating.
idk anything about superman. i guess i do now. most of all i think we learned a lot about ayn rand
Jor El’s speech about Kal being a beacon for humanity to strive for becomes BAFFLING in MoS’s interpretation.
Personally what really gets about DC is the company seems to be afraid of using other characters at times , i personally would want to the JSA implemented in some way to show that they helped spark some hope into the world that in to justice league, and not to mention they need to find someone brave enough to make a film about the newgods to have some rare moment of phychedelic sci-fi sillieness with the back drop of an Galactic war , or at the very least have the doom patrol reappear somewhere not as a quick joke or cheap cameo but as reintroduction into these characters, other than Batman , they are the only characters I ever felt a sort connection towards , because they are a group of broken people that gradually yet clumbsally become a team of heroes in their own right , and they fully embrace their goofy comic book roots whole heartedly and they're not afraid to get weird with it which is what makes them special they are heroes we could actually see our selves in.so long story short , there are other characters with interesting stories , I hope get to see and I certainly hope that DC doesn't shy away from using them
What really gets me is much time DC has wasted on the villains as leads and protagonists.
@@bthsr7113 I completely agree , I kind of felt they something with something with the joker , and what I mean by that is that instead they could make movies about villains but have them be VILLAINS,make them a cautionary tales of what not to be
Or go the always sunny route and have them be awful for the sake of being awful, I would be fine with it either way , because not everyone can be the misunderstood anti hero, and only a very few can make the transition from villain ,.
Idk if you have seen Young Justice but the fourth season introduced General Zod.
LaRon came here to tussle
I love Man of Steel and always will. But I also thought Young Justice and how they handled Zod with his followers did a great job as well.
I like how Young Justice's depiction of Zod was more directly, obviously fascist, even showing him exploiting the labor of his followers, having them chant about working for him and how "great" it is to do so.
@@DavidRYates-tk2tq the power of influence
It occurs to me that Slo-mo Zack Snyder, JJ Snoke Abrams and Michael Kaboom Bay have one thing in common - they're shallow. Like...Snyder is apparently a very nice person, but he's sort of like that guy who follows whatever train of thought was last put in his head by others. Abrams is a salesman selling empty mystery boxes, and Bay is a complete butt. Goyer, on the other hand, is a misanthrope. He hates people. It's blatant in everything he writes, directs and produces. So if you let Goyer write for Snyder, you kind of get misanthropic objectivist propaganda, even if Snyder isn't that horrible a person himself. When Goyer writes for Michael Bay, you get misogyny (from Bay) and objectivist propaganda (from Goyer), and so on.
The sad part is that one thing Donner truly got right is that Superman is a _good person._ He's not a god. He has godlike powers, but he's a cinnamon bun on the inside because _that's how he was raised._ And he wears the El symbol not because Krypton was the Persian Empire (which early medieval Europe took a lot of ideas from), but because he looked at what Jor-El showed him and went "Wow, these people had almost everything figured out - the 'almost' being what killed them." So he honors his heritage, and does what his folks taught him. Goyerman does not. He hates his heritage and does what his weird objectivist dad taught him - Jonathan Goyer Kent preaches "don't save people if it might hurt you, they might not be worth it." Comics Jonathan Kent doesn't preach, he helps his neighbors and cares for a lost, unique child without thought of self-gain other than having a child (since he and Martha couldn't conceive).
ONLY 68k subs???!!! Bro we gotta at least get you to 69k subs, and I'll help with that
Review the Kryptonian Epic
Krypton was never presented as a utopia. That's an unfounded statement.
I always have been more of a Marvel fangirl, so I have not much to say about how the DCEU went off the rails. However, I can enjoy the exploration of darker themes, but David Goyer always felt just like a wannabe edgy kid and not like someone who can properly delve into the darker aspects of the human psyche.
My main hope for the DC reboot would be Gunn enabling film makers who aren't as established bring their passion for stories with obscure characters in the same way Gunn did with the Guardians films and Peacemaker.
Also tapping into the fantasy/horror aspect of the DC universe would be great (I would especially love to see both Etrigan and Swampthing in particular!).
Didn’t know I could hate Man of Steel Superman even more, but that sci fi show made it even worse
sounds like Brave New World
Not a Sing👏🏾le👏🏾 , un👏🏾ambiguously👏🏾 black👏🏾 ( Dewayne the Rock Johnson doesn't fit this category) solo Hero movie after about a decade... And the one solo movie we do get with a Black man ( The Rock) is more Villain than Anti-hero..... That's my gripe with the DCEU,.... It's that awkward moment when, you have more representation in all of the CW DC shows.... Than movies.... And, the representation was right there.... They had a whole a$s green lantern, they could have used after the Ryan Reynolds flop...or Gotten Static Shock... out of Rights purgatory...but nooooo....we got what we got, and then and they put the actor who played cyborg for the tiny, meniscule amount of representation we did get.... Through absolute hell while filming......I can't with The DCEU.....but alas... I guess it was never meant to be. 😭
Static would have been a cool movie to see.
I want president Superman so bad he’s so coooooool
Also I liked krypton for simply booster gold
The rest was just just awful
After this, I just now realized how cynical and depressing that writing was.
My biggest problem is that the DCEU was desperately competing with Marvel and failed miserably.
*Had one , lol that things donezo
You can almost see the clash between the objectivist philosophy and the altruistic nature of Superman as a character in _Man of Steel._ Clark/Kal-El seems to have an innate sense that he could help people with his powers but his parents, and at times Lois, are constantly like "no, people don't desserve to be helped, they'll repay your kindness with an autopsy or something"
While your assertions about the bastardized “Krypton”, your research into the different eras of presentation of Krypton in comics is slightly off.
The concept of the guilds and the stratification of Kryptonoan society were introduced by Geoff John’s. That Rucka story you referenced all occurred when Johns rose to CCO, so this was part of his rejigging Superman to his whims.
The family crests actually first appeared in the 1978 Superman movie, but weren’t co-opted until Waid’s Birthright reboot, and then doubled down by Johns as part of his philosophy that everything Donner did is sacrosanct.
The same Johns was still CCO when the Krypton series went into production. So I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a causal relationship between him and this version of kryptonian society.
sounds like Atlantis
I don't like that DCEU Clark is barely characterized
29:00 not even Saitima is that. He's a superhero because it's fun
I LOATHE Man of Steel. The casting is pretty good, but the total and complete butchery of Kryptonian culture and Superman as a character nearly made me leave the theatre. I really hope that the DCU gets 1.) Krypton's culture and destruction 2.) Superman's optimism and unyielding selflessness nature right this time around. I don't think I'll see The Flash movie in theatres because Ezra Miller leaves a foul taste in my mouth. It sucks because I absolutely love the Flashpoint comics run, and I think that movie has the ability to fix a lot of shit that I truly detest about the DCEU. I was hoping Ezra Miller would be recast because they obviously need a lot of help, and throwing them into making more high-stress big budget films quickly helps no one, especially Ezra. I'm honestly shocked they haven't been charged with something, and they still have a career after they choked out that fan years ago.
I didn't care for the writing or Snyder's vision for the DCEU. I didn't hate Man of Steel but I didn't love it either. The whole time I was watching just kept me asking myself would Clark do that? That doesn't sound like something he would do. I didn't care for the lessons pa Kent was teaching him either. To be afraid of being who is because the humans will detect you in a lab. If they are in trouble then let them die. Then to prove his point Snyder allows Pa Kent to die even though Clark has the power to save him. I hated that scene. I was hoping the movies would get better but nope. They got worse. Man of Steel had potential and could have been better .I didn't care that people were dying in the film because of who Superman was fighting and he couldn't save them all. He could have tried to take the fight elsewhere but Zod would have still killed a bunch of people so that wasn't as big an issue for me. I just didn't recognize Superman in this film. Then the second film dropped and same problem except I didn't recognize any of the characters. Had me wondering does he understand these characters or did he just pick his favorite things that happened in the comics and smash them together. But Snyder insisted that's how Super Heroes would act in the real world.