Hey Ian, I recommend watching "How To Read Signals On The CSX Part 5 - ABS Signals" This will explain the P plate and also the G plate. The P plate is a Permissive Signal and the G plate is a Grade Signal.
as a former signalman on the Milwaukee Road, (1970's) I see some changes have been in order. For us the lower signal indicated the siding and sometimes there was a dwarf signal on the outbound of some yards. The signal without a plate was an absolute signal. For us the indications were two reds and two yellows out in front of a train and a red and yellow trailing.
Thank you oh so much for clearing that up. Will be getting to automating my signals, and I did not understand the difference between the staggered and straight heads. Wonderful video's very helpful.
One final question - I came back from a railfanning vacation in Field, BC, and as I was head home to Leduc, AB, I took a different route home that would guide us along the tracks and I saw an automatic double headed signal with an “R” Plate AND an “M” plate... What would the M plate stand for, do you know?
+Cycling in Edmonton from the Eyes of a Teen The staggered signals are useless with CTC signals. THis is because the CTC signals are controlled by the dispatcher and are absolute. If they wanted to display restricting (pretty close to what happens with the Stop and Proceed of staggered heads), the dispatcher just lines the signal. There is a reason absolute signals are absolute, such as when a switch or diamond is involved (anywhere where you could derail a train). Also some signals are absolute that way a train can be "forced" to wait somewhere by a dispatcher, such as in a siding to wait for another train.
Tje "A" plate is the one instance I've found that is NOT a failsafe. If the the "A" plate gets covered with snow or goes missing, the signal reverts to a LESS safe comdition.
+ianjuby *Recently, I observed a new way signal code* not far removed from that explained this vid on the Bay Area (CA, USA) Rapid Transit District's third-rail broadgauge extensions: Steady green is proceed at track speed; flashing green, proceed at reduced speed to take a switch; steady amber, prepare to stop from track speed; flashing amber, prepare to stop from reduced speed for taking switch; steady red, halt. These are on new three-head LED stands and also usable on the legacy Fresnel-lensed color-selects. (Most of the system still uses dwarf signals at the switches, which only indicate the switch position and are not tied to the CTC computers in Oakland - BART needs to install proper way signals system-wide.)
Here in Winnipeg, I've seen 2 headed signals where the lights going down the track are (Yellow, Yellow), then (Yellow, Red), then (Red, Red). I guess that (Yellow, Yellow) would be Advanced Clear to stop, but I don't know. I don't know if you're going to talk about this later, but I've also seen (Yellow, Green) signals. Anyways, great video, can't wait for part 3!
Victor Aguilarl dave allen Here are pictures of the lights I mentioned above: (Yellow, Yellow) oi60.tinypic.com/2nbeufr.jpg (Yellow, Green) oi57.tinypic.com/21j6gqh.jpg
Interestingly, most southern USA railroads don't have a stop and proceed indication. The only have restricting, meaning that a red automatic signal displays restricting
Excellent series as I mentioned before! Just a question on the fail safes when it comes to the modifying plates. You mention the single head masts and the R plates etc. But what happens if an A plate falls off or is covered in the snow or stolen or whatever? The signal would go from an absolute stop to a stop and proceed. Wouldn't this be an issue as its no longer as restricting? Just wondering
+VancouverComposer Agreed. Someone pointed that out before. Technically, the operators are supposed to be "familiar with the territory." That's actually in the rules. So technically they would know to stop anyway, and when the A plate was gone, they would call it in. But of course, the railroads will often call you to go on territory you haven't been familiarized with all the time! So....
_"The signal would go from an absolute stop to a stop and proceed. Wouldn't this be an issue as its no longer as restricting?"_ Yes, that is a wrong-side failure. It is the only wrong-side failure in the CROR system that I can think of. However, such a failure would be very rare. And an alert and qualified train crew would know whether the signal is supposed to be absolute or permissive. But because of this, single-head absolute signals are not common.
The A is for absolute signal.. if the signal post does not have a number sign under the light, it is the same as having an "A". So A or no A, unless it has a number tag it is still and Absolute signal.
But, I guess in all actuality... It really ultimately depends on the carrier and if it's passenger or freight... You would think all the signals would be universal.. but sadly they are not.
I saw a weird configuration....it was a three head signal and the top was steady yellow, middle was flashing green and the bottom was a stead red......what does that signal mean?
It means 'clear to limited'. Indication: pass this signal at track speed preparing to pass the next signal at limited speed (equal or less than 45 mph).
Ian: Will you be at the Great Edmonton Train Show September 20-21st at Millenium Place? If so, please come meet me at the LaBaJa layout if you do and see our working CTC system.
+John Richards Yes both crew members must know what the signal is and what it means. I guess you could argue that the engineer needs to know more but both crew members need to know what it means.
Clear signal would be 30 MPH, Diverging would be 25 MPH Slow and Restricting would be 15 MPH. It's all the same. You can have full mast signals when the track speed is 15 MPH.
+EduEnYT They are just really expensive... The old ones have a lot of moving parts in them and a complicated mechanism. The newer signals are FAR cheaper, but still in the thousands.
dude I appreciate your effort but you have a few things backwards a signal without a number or letter plate on it is an absolute signal if you go by it you will get a vacation for at least 30 days a red signal with a number or letter plate is a restricted proceed
True in American rulebooks, but not in Canadian rules. The presence or absence of a number plate has no meaning other than identification in Canadian rules.
+Cycling in Edmonton from the Eyes of a Teen Well, whatever country the train is in, obviously, eg for an NIR train to cross into southern Ireland it has to be fitted with CAWS, not just AWS, and has to follow IÉ signaling
there is no such thing as a clear to stop a yellow signal is just that proceed, prepared to stop at the next signal.trains exceeding medium speed must immediately begin reduction to medium speed as soon as the engine passes the approach signal.
Delilah Hensley Clear to stop is the name of the signal - we have to repeat the name verbatim to pass the CROR test, and we have to get 100%. I think you're thinking US rules.
Very instructional videos you presented in Parts 1 & 2, Thank you, feel like I'm learning a bit more of what controls the trains movements.
Great video!! Very well explained, look forward to part 3!!
Hey Ian, I recommend watching "How To Read Signals On The CSX Part 5 - ABS Signals" This will explain the P plate and also the G plate. The P plate is a Permissive Signal and the G plate is a Grade Signal.
as a former signalman on the Milwaukee Road, (1970's) I see some changes have been in order. For us the lower signal indicated the siding and sometimes there was a dwarf signal on the outbound of some yards. The signal without a plate was an absolute signal. For us the indications were two reds and two yellows out in front of a train and a red and yellow trailing.
Thanks so much for posting these. Please post part 3 soon!
Thank you oh so much for clearing that up. Will be getting to automating my signals, and I did not understand the difference between the staggered and straight heads. Wonderful video's very helpful.
Can't wait for part 3. It's stuff I know but railroad stuff. I love it.
Can't wait for part 3!
Any idea when we can expect it?
Really like these videos, thank for making them
One final question - I came back from a railfanning vacation in Field, BC, and as I was head home to Leduc, AB, I took a different route home that would guide us along the tracks and I saw an automatic double headed signal with an “R” Plate AND an “M” plate... What would the M plate stand for, do you know?
when will you be posting part 3?
Thank you so much for not using heavy metal or rap music. Really.
Another fantastic video! Question: are three head signals ever staggered? If so, what would it look like? If not, why not?
doanster No, because the three head signals are ALWAYS controlled signals - they are directly controlled by RTC.
+Cycling in Edmonton from the Eyes of a Teen The staggered signals are useless with CTC signals. THis is because the CTC signals are controlled by the dispatcher and are absolute. If they wanted to display restricting (pretty close to what happens with the Stop and Proceed of staggered heads), the dispatcher just lines the signal. There is a reason absolute signals are absolute, such as when a switch or diamond is involved (anywhere where you could derail a train). Also some signals are absolute that way a train can be "forced" to wait somewhere by a dispatcher, such as in a siding to wait for another train.
Tje "A" plate is the one instance I've found that is NOT a failsafe. If the the "A" plate gets covered with snow or goes missing, the signal reverts to a LESS safe comdition.
Great job. Thanks for sharing.
+ianjuby *Recently, I observed a new way signal code* not far removed from that explained this vid on the Bay Area (CA, USA) Rapid Transit District's third-rail broadgauge extensions: Steady green is proceed at track speed; flashing green, proceed at reduced speed to take a switch; steady amber, prepare to stop from track speed; flashing amber, prepare to stop from reduced speed for taking switch; steady red, halt. These are on new three-head LED stands and also usable on the legacy Fresnel-lensed color-selects.
(Most of the system still uses dwarf signals at the switches, which only indicate the switch position and are not tied to the CTC computers in Oakland - BART needs to install proper way signals system-wide.)
Learning! Career Change!
Here in Winnipeg, I've seen 2 headed signals where the lights going down the track are (Yellow, Yellow), then (Yellow, Red), then (Red, Red). I guess that (Yellow, Yellow) would be Advanced Clear to stop, but I don't know. I don't know if you're going to talk about this later, but I've also seen (Yellow, Green) signals.
Anyways, great video, can't wait for part 3!
Nice information to know !
I nice information to know
Victor Aguilarl dave allen
Here are pictures of the lights I mentioned above:
(Yellow, Yellow) oi60.tinypic.com/2nbeufr.jpg
(Yellow, Green) oi57.tinypic.com/21j6gqh.jpg
taylorover9001 Thanks for the info on the signals !
thank you
What is the backing track? I don’t know why but it’s addictive. :)
Interestingly, most southern USA railroads don't have a stop and proceed indication. The only have restricting, meaning that a red automatic signal displays restricting
good video
How is part 3 or Railroad Signals coming along ?
Brian
that makes sense that a signal on single track would be a restricting or stop and proceed signal.
Excellent series as I mentioned before! Just a question on the fail safes when it comes to the modifying plates. You mention the single head masts and the R plates etc. But what happens if an A plate falls off or is covered in the snow or stolen or whatever? The signal would go from an absolute stop to a stop and proceed. Wouldn't this be an issue as its no longer as restricting? Just wondering
+VancouverComposer Agreed. Someone pointed that out before. Technically, the operators are supposed to be "familiar with the territory." That's actually in the rules. So technically they would know to stop anyway, and when the A plate was gone, they would call it in. But of course, the railroads will often call you to go on territory you haven't been familiarized with all the time! So....
+VancouverComposer The amount of A plates still in use in Canada that would fall under this circumstance are very few.
_"The signal would go from an absolute stop to a stop and proceed. Wouldn't this be an issue as its no longer as restricting?"_
Yes, that is a wrong-side failure. It is the only wrong-side failure in the CROR system that I can think of. However, such a failure would be very rare. And an alert and qualified train crew would know whether the signal is supposed to be absolute or permissive. But because of this, single-head absolute signals are not common.
Hm... So what if the absolute sign falls off or is covered in snow, hm? How's your fail safe now?
Love the video(s), would be nice to put this to practice to see if I can remember them
Okay, what about if the single-headed signal is supposed to have an Ⓐ below it, but the Ⓐ falls off or gets covered in snow?
The A is for absolute signal.. if the signal post does not have a number sign under the light, it is the same as having an "A".
So A or no A, unless it has a number tag it is still and Absolute signal.
But, I guess in all actuality... It really ultimately depends on the carrier and if it's passenger or freight... You would think all the signals would be universal.. but sadly they are not.
Hi, when will part 3 be up
epicminecrafter1245 Right now. :)
So how do you get into railroading with misdemeanors?
I saw a weird configuration....it was a three head signal and the top was steady yellow, middle was flashing green and the bottom was a stead red......what does that signal mean?
It means 'clear to limited'. Indication: pass this signal at track speed preparing to pass the next signal at limited speed (equal or less than 45 mph).
Good eye - Brian's right, it's "Clear to limited" which I'll explain in both parts 3 & 4 of this series.
Ian: Will you be at the Great Edmonton Train Show September 20-21st at Millenium Place? If so, please come meet me at the LaBaJa layout if you do and see our working CTC system.
Wow that sounds cool! I don't know if I can be there or not - welcome to the railroad; don't know where or when I'll be working!
Is part 3 - 4 coming soon?
Sorry - been run ragged here. Will try and see if I can hack at it here. I've got a mess of other videos I haven't been able to get to either. :)
I hope to see the next video soon.
So instead of a R, L, DV, and A plate. What does the P plate mean?
On signals? That's not in the CROR, so that must be an American thing.
It is an American plate
does the conductor have a responsibility to read the signals with the engineer.
+John Richards Yes both crew members must know what the signal is and what it means. I guess you could argue that the engineer needs to know more but both crew members need to know what it means.
sorry but i cant hear you above the noise
What if I encounter a two headed signal and the track speed limit is 30 mph?
That depends what is the current limit
And what is the miles till the next mile marker
And the distance until the next speed marker
Clear signal would be 30 MPH, Diverging would be 25 MPH Slow and Restricting would be 15 MPH. It's all the same. You can have full mast signals when the track speed is 15 MPH.
Great instructional vid! You could have layed back a little bit on the music....:-)
I thought it was Reading Railroad, pronounced "Redding" was a railroad in PA...haha good video btw
Part 3? :(
GibsonDigital Uploading it right now!
Great videos and information,next vid please get rid of the music,it is too loud.
20 thousand for each head?? Are they made to survive a freight train crashing into them or what?
+EduEnYT They are just really expensive... The old ones have a lot of moving parts in them and a complicated mechanism. The newer signals are FAR cheaper, but still in the thousands.
dude I appreciate your effort but you have a few things backwards a signal without a number or letter plate on it is an absolute signal if you go by it you will get a vacation for at least 30 days a red signal with a number or letter plate is a restricted proceed
Delilah Hensley Not according to the Canadian Rail Operating Rules, which as I mentioned is the system I was explaining.
True in American rulebooks, but not in Canadian rules. The presence or absence of a number plate has no meaning other than identification in Canadian rules.
they really need to get together and come up with some uniform rules
+Cycling in Edmonton from the Eyes of a Teen Well, whatever country the train is in, obviously, eg for an NIR train to cross into southern Ireland it has to be fitted with CAWS, not just AWS, and has to follow IÉ signaling
+Delilah Hensley Uniform rules? Every railroad in Canada uses the exact same rules. It is the USA that needs the uniform rules.
If my math is correct, 100 miles of signal cost 6 MILLION dollars... Sheesh..
Automatic signals Stop, Toot the horn twice not to proceed 15 MPH , NORAC Rules
We're talking Canada here. NORAC doesn't apply.
I hope on part 3 the music is not so LOUD!!!!!!!!!!!!
Get rid of the intrusive music.
I had a hard time following this video. Again with the background music. Christ man what made you think that was a good idea?
WTF is a foamer?!
there is no such thing as a clear to stop a yellow signal is just that proceed, prepared to stop at the next signal.trains exceeding medium speed must immediately begin reduction to medium speed as soon as the engine passes the approach signal.
Delilah Hensley Clear to stop is the name of the signal - we have to repeat the name verbatim to pass the CROR test, and we have to get 100%. I think you're thinking US rules.
ok sounds better probably should mention that in video sounds like a big difference in u.s. and canada
in u.s. its just that green over red clear signal you don't mention the red
what would a clear to stop even mean that as im going down the road its ok for me to go from track speed to stop anywhere in the block I want too
yes we also have to pass the signal exam in conductor training and engineer training word for word period for period one chance or your done