Simmy Speaks-What Happened to Omen of the Stars (part 2)
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- Опубліковано 14 лип 2017
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I really love the whole "redeeming the Dark Forest cats" idea! It could have been taken in so many interesting directions. For example, if the Dark Forest isn't all evil, then Starclan can't be all good. Maybe they could dive into the issues readers have had with Starclan for a long time like if the prophecies do more harm than good or why they don't just tell the cats what must be done. Maybe show some ambiguity from Starclan and how they don't always know what decision to make despite having so much power. I feel like it could have added a lot. Great video!
So true!
this comment is gold. why couldn't they have done this? i mean...if cats like ashfur can go to starclan in the canon, there's a great deal of moral ambiguity that still manages to get you into Cat Heaven. but that's never discussed or even hinted at (not even with ashfur, i mean...."he loved too much" is a stupid fucking excuse). it's ridiculous. i despise how the series deifies starclan to such an extent that questioning them is borderline treason (mothwing!!!), and it really could have benefited from highlighting the fact that starclan is, in fact, incredibly flawed.
just ugh. disappointing.
I agree. Then think: if the Clan cats knew how flawed StarClan was and how they can make mistakes, that could add a lot of drama within the Clans. The cats could debate if blind faith in something that's imperfect is really a good idea or not. Maybe the medicine cats could have a moment where they feel guilt for delivering messages that may have been incorrect or disastrous. Of course, by the end, they would still have faith in Starclan (seeing how that's a main theme of the books) but it could have been an interesting angle to approach it from that could lead to a lot of discussions.
Emma S. i would like to see mapleshade redeemed because i think she deserves starclan more than ashfur
Redeemed right after she slaughtered Spottedleaf xD
You could say that Rock...Hit rock bottom
*Ba dum tiss*
GOD DAMMIT BARB
BU DUM SHHHHH
Buddhum-CCCHSH
Oh hes about when I kick him down the badger den breezepelt and lionblaze fell into in the 3rd series after that speech he gave
"YES SENPAI PLS STEP ON MEE"
Omg 😆
Rock's speech is probably the single worse thing about the series, at least for me. It's not just bad, it's not just confusing, it's toxic. Let's take for the sake of argument the thought that he wasn't talking about cats remembering their own battles and the cats they knew, but telling stories and passing them on so that the generations like Mothwing, Leafpool, Squirrelflight, Jayfeather, Lionblaze, Dovewing, Ivypool, and so on knew them despite not being alive at the times of some or all of the Dark Forest cat's lives. In that case, he is cursing the clans for telling the stories of their history and of the cats who fell from grace. THIS IS ABOUT THE WORST THING YOU CAN POSSIBLY DO. Ever heard of the saying "Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it?" Well, it's very true. Mapleshade, Tigerstar, Scrouge, Hawkfrost, and all of these other cats may have been evil to an extent, but they all had reasons for it, and there was a reason that they each got as far as they did. Medicine cats were much more valued and protected after Mapleshade killed off Raven...whatever the Thunderclan medicine cat was at the time. Brambleclaw was far more loyal to Thunderclan after seeing what Hawkfrost did (I still don't think he should have become deputy but he was more loyal at least). The clans, and Firestar especially, were all more grounded in both faith and unity upon defeating Bloodclan, and the list goes on. Telling these stories gives the cats lessons that allow them to grow and be better. We've even now seen what would, or really what has happened now that a clan abandoned their history and faith. In the recent "A Vision Of Shadows" series, the young cats in Shadowclan didn't learn enough about their history and faith because of the lack of mentors and abundance of young cats, and the young instead turned to silly games, often dangerous ones that lead to the rouges practically taking over the clans. The Dark Forest plays the same role as the warrior code and the stories of the cats that made each one. They teach lessons, and show why you should act a certain way. For a lot of people, and I imagine cats too, if you don't know why you're supposed to act a certain way, you'll often not care enough to act in that way, and if cats like that became the next generation of leaders and medicine cats, the clans would soon become unrecognizable, having lost all of their honor and growth from the past.
I agree with you
E X A C T L Y
Agreed!
Also, I’m pretty sure the TC medicine cat Mapleshade murdered was Ravenwing.
Yes, amazing point!
Yes thank starclan somecat UNDERSTANDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last digit is who you are
0: Whoever you want
1: Tom
2: LZRD WZRD
3: Tennelle
4: Moonkitti
5: Blixemi
6: Selina (ButterflyIdentity)
7: Jaybae
8: Kazu Yoshi
9: Brackenfur
Jaybro I'm guessing you love Brackenfur?
That One Gamer Called Dylan yes! Thanks for noticing! Brackenfur is best fur.
Jaybro Well he was almost deputy so yeah. Brackenfur best fur no doubt.
Jaybro Moonkitti!
That One Gamer Called Dylan Brackenfur is such a noble, level headed, and intelligent cat. He deserves so much more than what he has right now. That's why he is my all time favorite character.
first
TennelleFlowers tecnicly you are
TennelleFlowers
lol your always going to be first XD
no i wanna be first
I really like your art of Hawkfrost on the thumbnail!
RabbitzRule that's not Hawkfrost. Hawk has blue eyes and no muzzle scar. It's Tigerstar
Right?
I spend WAAAAAAY too much time looking at Simmy's cat's eyebrows when I should be listening to the video.
Cataclysmic I feel called out
Same! For whatever reason, watching cat eyebrows is oddly mesmerizing...
Yep same
didnt expect to be called out like that tho 👀
OMG yes
Mapleshade being redeemed would have been amazing. Imagine: She is reunited with her kits, and they persuade her to come to StarClan. She speaks with Appledusk, who still insists against talking to her. An ex-dark forest cat could rush over and comfort her at his denial.
It just seems like something that should have happened.
Casual yes that is the best idea except the Erin’s never listen to their fans at All
I dunno fam she did my boi Crookedstar dirty and I just can't let it go
_Ypu should write a fanfic_
And then...maybe that dark forest cat that comforted her...could become her mate.
I'm sorry, I'm BrokenxMaple shipping trash.
Book Forager12 I would be more interested in Hawkfrost and thistleclaw reforming!
"Yes senpai please step on me"
Me: DIES OF LAUGHTER
If the dark forest cats killed all the living cats won't they fade away because there's no one to remember them?
HOORAY FOR
P L O T H O L E S
But the living cats with the Dark Forest would remember, so the plot hole is sealed :P
Jas the Soulcatcher *snaps fingers* you, have a point there
Woah.
Deep dude.
That’s why I think they trained living cats, to have more numbers against the living cats, and to be rembered
"Yes Senpai please step on me." -Tennelleflower 2017
I knew someone would point this out
One big problem with the dead cats fading away idea is that none of Skyclan's ancestors faded, even after only one cat remembered the clan had even existed at one point. Skywatcher had never spoken directly with his ancestors and did not seem to know any of them by name, meaning that all of them should have faded to nothing, but yet they could send dreams to a cat who did not even believe in Starclan and Skystar was still able to speak with Echosong in spite how old his spirit was.
Nathan Luciow I think basically Every cat in every clan, Including StarClan, has to forget about you before you can fade away.
Velociraptors of Skyrim This explanation doesn't make sense either, do to the fact that cats are dying and going to starclan all the time. Obviously they meet the cats who died before them, which would mean that they would know of there existence, which should preserve them, thus insuring that they would continue to exist to be seen again by the said fresh starclan inhabitant, reminding them once again of their existence and preserving it in this fashion forever. And, cats who are close to each other such as mates, siblings, parents, children and good friends remain close when they are in starclan, which would mean as they would never forget each other, thus anyone who was/is close to anyone should exist forever since their spirits would mutually never forget one another. Because of this, the idea that dead cats also have to forget them does not make sense.
Nathan Luciow Hmm.... Good point.
However, the Faded cats are a good distance from the others. Maybe over time the older warriors seek solitude and rarely ever meet the younger generation?
Velociraptors of Skyrim Yes, that's a possibility. However, there is still the problem that cats like Bluestar and Snowfur or Firestar and Sandstorm will likely never forget each other, which should theoretically render them and any other cats that ever had an even mildly close relationship with anyone immortal.
In my own opinion, this is just another example of what Tenelle talked about in these video's - that this arc, in literary terms, was the worst of the series, and one of its many weaknesses was situations like these, where something, by the very rules that were used to set it up, is made impossible to exist without creating serious plot holes and contradictions, or even exist in general.
Hearing your version of what could've happened gave me chills. Omen of the Stars would have been 1000x more interesting if that had happened. I'm no fan of redeeming villains but I think I actually would have enjoyed it had it been done that way. That and I would have liked at least a few more living cats to stay with the dark forest the way breezepelt did. It felt like a gyp that ALL cats(excluding Breezepelt) were just like "Ohp! Nah man we're actually still good, lolkbye".
The problem with background characters is that I do remember one (well, remember isn't the wrong word . . . I was researching apprentices) named Redwillow who sided with the Dark Forest, Blackstar killed him, and he was never mentioned again. Which kind of makes the Crowfeather's Trial Breezepelt even worse (not Dovewing's Silence or The Last Hope) since they're discriminating against a cat only because the alternative is dead.
14:23 to 14:27 when Ivypool starts speaking, watch her mouth because when Tennelle says: "Yes, senpai, please step on me", Ivypool looks as if she's saying that xD The lipsync is so funny!
What could have been really cool is that maybe Mapleshade sees her kits in Ivypool and Antpelt and take the two under her wing, causing a stronger relationship between the two. So when Ivypool's loyalty is put to the test its even harder for her to kill her friend, causing greater significance at his death.
Lily how would that even happen!
@@FabulousFeathertail ?
They don't even have to have redemption stories even just a small paragraph like "When a cat dies, they appear at this border in between... we offer those who have done horrible things a choice to let things go. To walk with StarClan again. Most choose to hold onto their hatred."
Honestly, some cats - Tigerstar, Brokenstar, Mapleshade, Hawkfrost - You could see them turning their backs on StarClan a final time.
All of them had so much hatred buried so deeply into them that it would never come out.
Thistleclaw, however, Did use to be a good cat, which we saw many times.... though there were many of his actions that were unforgivable - ordering an attack on a KIT. Oh boy. And honestly, his mentoring had a lot to do with how Tigerstar turned out. He wasn't evil - not in the sense of the rest - but he was very unbalanced.
I completely agree with you but you made a mistake on what happened with Tiny.
Thistleclaw never actually _ordered_ Tigerpaw to attack him. Here is the scene: Bluefur felt sick as Thistleclaw turned to his apprentice.
“Here, let’s put it to my apprentice. What do you think Tigerpaw? How should we handle this?”
“I think the kittypet should be taught a lesson,” Tigerpaw hissed. “One it’ll remember.”
-Bluestar’s Prophecy page 400
As you can see, Thistleclaw left it up to Tigerpaw on what would happen to Tiny.
However, he did nothing to stop this and actively encouraged Tigerpaw’s assault which most certainly _is_ unforgivable. Intruder or not, Tiny was still a kit.
Ah thanks, been awhile since I read Bluestar's Prophecy, so I couldn't remember it well, but I DID remember that he did nothing to stop it
Graceful Espeon actually I see hawkfrost forgetting his hate as he regrets following his father
I think this would also really explain why Ashfur was let into starclan. That he chose to let go of his anger and move on.
I think Mapleshade could have been redeemed. No doubt she's done a lot of atrocious things, but I wonder what would have happened if she was reunited with her kits? Prior to their deaths, she WAS a respected warrior and a very good mother.
What I was told:
The three were born to banish the dark forest,
...rock's speech is useless now.
Yellowfangs role should have been given to Goosefeather in this arc, that would fit his character. He's also old an messy and also has his guilt of Dark Forest that he let Tigerkit survie etc.
So your talk about redemption is exactly what I wanted for Thistleclaw. I wanted him not be mad he was put in The Dark Forest but because he was separated from Snowfur and when the big battle happens him and Bluestar could be fighting but Snowfur runs in convincing Thistleclaw to join them(and her) it would have been a satisfying way to give him a character arc and fix what the Erin's did to him in the super editions. But of course that didn't happen and they just ruined his character even more in "Spottedleaf's Heart"(don't even get me started on that book UGH)
I wish that happened
Dat Aquamareanie From Skinseed thanks but most of the Snowfur stuff was by my friend(I love how autocorrect changed it to lonesome) but the rest was mostly from me.
I HATE THISTLECLAW BECAUSE OF SPOTTEDLEAF'S HEART!
Right?! I hate the stupid one dimensional villain they turned him into!
Spottedleaf's Heart felt like a really cheap way to make him a villain...
The most bs thing is that Lilywhisker and Brightflower are in the Dark Forest for..being angry that they had bad living situations.
(Also i had a rewrite that ties 3&4 together where Hollyleaf is one of the 3 and Ashfur goes to the Dark Forest, and the ThunderClan trainees start turning against StarClan because they gave Hollyleaf powers and she used them to kill Ashfur)
Is the rewrite available?
Brinley Morris Oh that sounds interesting
Brinley Morris I would read that.
Oh man, I would love to see you address the concept of "fading away" in a video (17:12). That idea always bothered me too.
The whole redemption theme could really work with Brambleberry's speech near the beginning of TLH- where she says the only true borders are between night and day, light and dark, between hope and loss. I feel like the story could have touched upon that more, other than the whole 'StarClan shouldn't have borders' thing.
Fantastic job Tennelle! All of your hard work reading and writing about this arc has totally paid off with these last two videos. It's an absolute pleasure to watch you take this writing on and offer constructive criticism of all aspects of it, especially its theming and messages. Keep up the great work!
LZRD WZRD ok stop faking but ok 'LZRD WZERD'
LZRD WZRD have you watched lifes to short ivypool and dovewing if not check it out!
LZRD WZRD I love your channel!!!
Tigerstar waiting in the dark forest: *staring down at the clans*
*the 2 (technically) special cats are born*
Tigerstar: OMG YES I AM FINALLY FREE!!!!!
Tigerstar: *kicks down door to starclan* YOU BROUGHT THIS ON YOUR SELVES!!!!
Tigerstar *kicks down the door to the actual world and clans* ....LIFE IS AN OPEN DOOOOOOOOOOR!!!!!!!!
starclan: *shaking heads in disappointment*
Pretty accurate 😂
When you mentioned the bit about how Ivypool could have gotten to known some of the Dark Forest cats in the vein of sympathizing/building to the chance to be redeemed, it made me think of Tigerclaw's Fury, where the reader learns that Tigerclaw basically had Mapleshade whispering in his head on how to destroy ThunderClan/encourage his ambition. I feel like Ivypool learning about this would have been interesting as a plot development - does Tigerstar feel like his own self, or has he been influenced too much by Mapleshade (I mean, probably, considering how cocky he is)? It could have then been mirrored/foiled with Breezepelt in the sense that he's been influenced by the cats around him, such as Nightcloud, Crowfeather, Dark Forest cats, etc. - and how does he react to the influence of both the living and the dead, shaping his (bizarre) desires/characterization.
Plus Ivypool could have also learned about Mapleshade, since while in the main books, she comes off as.....pointlessly evil; her novella portrays her as someone whose love ended up being distorted and warped through grief and she chose to kill and torture as her perceived vengeance. It doesn't have to be the entire story (so there's still a reason to buy/read the novella), but just the subtle mention of things like "I lost my kits, I took their lives" and/or "I will shred Appledusk and Reedshine when I see them in the battle" could have made her character less flat and given her more dimension beyond "evil female token character" that we end up seeing in Omen of the Stars.
Also side note: in the beginning of Sunset, Tigerstar talks about how each cat in the Dark Forest walks their own path (turning down Darkstripe's pledged help) and so they'll end up smelling the scents of familiar cats (since Darkstripe talks about smelling Brokenstar) but never encountering them. However, then Omen of the Star rolls around and there's just a camp of these evil cats....What happened to never meeting each other? I know this is likely a writing inconsistency on behalf of the Erins, but it does bother me that the rules of StarClan/the Dark Forest change as demanded by the plot....I know they didn't account for needing to have specific rules (seeing as they didn't expect to initally write beyond The Darkest Hour, then Dawn, etc.) but....its just irksome.
And lastly....wonderful use of Okami music!
omg I love your idea about forgiving the Darkforest cats, I myself had thought about how it would've been cool if Ivypool had turned Hawkfrost around.
Oh yeah! I like the idea
When I read that part in the books I was like "wtf Mapleshade? you don't even know Sandstorm, why the heck do you wanna kill her?" and when Spotted appeared was like "Ugh, here it comes the moment of the Mary Sue" xD
But the idea that Spottedleaf could admit that she felt mad with Sandstorm too but learned to forgive, and tries to teach that to Maple as well is just so good
I wish that would have happened :c
Maggie Motl those are exactly my thoughts on that scene!
..
The whole dark forest winning thing sounds awesome! I'm working on writing a fan fiction where that happens.
Kingcottenfeet hey me too, except the Three die too, the main chara is an oc
When you do, come back to this thread and leave the link for us!
That sounds interesting
Kingcottonfeet16 AJ I would read that
maybe
"Sol is just a giant waste of time, so we're not going to talk about him"
Omg someone finally said it
somebody certainly likes the Okami soundtrack X3
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa I thought I was the only one who heard it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Star Fall same
My first reaction after finishing the serie of Omen of the Stars was "so, these powers strongers than the stars themselves, what was their purpose again ?".
Like, the fight would have totally ended the same exact way with or without these powers. Literaly. And Firestar, he being the 4th or not would have fought against Tigerstar anyway because it's his duty and he always wanted to (like we saw in the original serie).
I think the only good thing was that these powers convinced the other clans to believe into the alliance because "oh look, they have a big important prophecy so they say the truth".
I keep imagine stories where the powers were useful in the fight.
Maybe Jayfeather could have see the Dark Forest cats past life to try to understand them and maybe try to convince them to stop fighting. I think the best exemple would be with Thisleclaw, Jayfeather would have perhaps convinced him to stop fighting in the darkness so he could protect and join his wife and his son. Or maybe he would have tried to make the Dark forest cats cried/weaker by remembering them past traumatic events so another cat could attack them from behind.
Like you said too, it would have been wonderful to have Sol, or Breezepelt to be the 4th cat. The original 3 would have to cooperate with a cat they hated, and maybe this cat would have got so much more developpement. Breezepelt could have fought as the 4th to make his father proud for exemple wich could have lead to a cliché but deserved "I'm proud of you son, despice the fact that you kinda are a mistake for me" scene.
So yeah, a serie that is still really great, but who could have a waayyy better ending in any way.
Thank you so much for the shout-out! I love your idea as well. There's definitely a lot of potential in Omen of the Stars, it's a shame the writers didn't have more time. Excellent analysis, as always!
I actually just started re-reading The Last Hope for the millionth time today. I'm about halfway through it. This was timed nicely because now I am refreshed on what's happening in these books.
Love all the ideas you brought up here! This is one of the things I love most about the warriors fan base. Very well done Simmi, I loved everything about this!
i think that the dark forest cats that survived the great battle tried to let go of their hate and are now living in the dark forest and waiting to fade away and let go of the hate and anguish most of them experienced in their lives. I'd like to think that mapleshade is trying to haggle with cats like goosefeather who can walk in both starclan and the dark forest so that she can see her lost children before she is lost to the darkness. it seemed cruel of starclan to hide her away from the kits she suffered so greatly for and even killed for in order to avenge them after they wrongfully died due to the error of cats other than herself.
yellowfang is my favorite character, but after she dies, she kinda goes a little batty
Imagine for a moment if you are a Dark Forest cat and you know that you fade away if the world forgets you exist. Yet, you can enter cats dreams and tell them all about who you are. What are you doing to do? Why, you're going to make sure every cat remembers you by haunting their dreams like some kind of ancient dark ghoul. The living will remember you as a dark spirit haunting them and you'll be a story that is passed down throughout history. You will be remembered... forever, as long as that story exists. And whenever you feel yourself fading, it's time to revive that story and scare a few cats and remind them that you do exist.
In hindsight, every Dark Forest cat is stupid and that fading away idea is handled so poorly. Sure, you could say that they can only walk in the dreams of cats they are actually related to... except Lionblaze wasn't related to Tigerstar when he started walking in the yellow cat's dreams. So, it's a free for all.
EDIT: Oh mousedung, I just made Cat Satan, didn't I?
TENNELLE UPLOADED A NEW SIMMY SPEAKS LET ME DROP EVERYTHING I WAS DOING BEFORE
Cardamom Coffee Bean same
That's my life
But don't drop your cat!
Hahahahahh hahahha ha hah a hahahha ahahahahhahah
:,)
It is definitely interesting to look at what Omen of the Stars could have been VS what it turned out to be. I definitely had a problem with how sudden the Dark Forest disappeared. "Whoops, our leader is dead, I guess we should go now!!" Yeah... No.
A Dark Forest redeeming arc would have been so much better at pulling in the reader and making them relate to the characters. Some for the most part think its too late, but like you mentioned, they could easily rise up again from Cat Hell. Would it roll over this time around and work much better than it could have in OotS? Honestly, probably not. But it could have made a more emotional and heart-tugging ending to the Dark Forest story arc, and possibly clear up issues we have with several cats as well.
If they do decide to bring the Dark Forest back (at this point, most likely not) an interesting plot would be they start appearing to SkyClan's dreams, more specifically Violetpaw, Twigpaw, and maybe even Hawkwing, and try to convince the Clan the other Clans are not who they thought they were. But, in the midst of all of this, Twigpaw and Violetpaw figure out there is much more to these cats than hate, and bloodlust, and give them some emotion and relation. Thus, all the ideas in the video presented have a chance of, again, satisfying the ending.
It's an interesting concept, but like I stated, the Dark Forest is pretty much gone for good. With that being said, it IS a good fan fiction idea.
Can we all give Tennelle a round of applause please!
(Fire stars Quest)
Blue star: Firestar, dead cats can’t can’t intervene with living cats
Omen of the stars: ....
Omen of the Stars: I'm going to pretend I didn't hear that
I guess one of Rock's points is understandable, since Starclan and Dark Forest are magical parts of the world. Remembering cats will keep them "alive" and without it they either fade away or are reborn depending on which Erin is writing. Thus, forgetting bad cats would make them disappear. But frankly it doesn't work as a real world moral for obvious reasons. And also, it kinda makes me wonder why sth like this never happened before? Were previous cats so good there was no one like Tigerstar to try to raise the Dark Forest? Really?
*Dark forest kitty meeting*
Brokenstar: “Hey, I’ve been thinking... what if our trainees... DON’T help us kill their families?”
Everybody: “...”
Tigerstar: “SHOOT.”
This is all very interesting! I'm actually using some of your thoughts for my currently 'eh...' fan fiction on the Warriors series.
My friend thought you said ''Blowman of the hars''
Blow man of the hars is my favorite series.
Still a better name then what we got. Like we hardly had any omens in the series I mean the original reason the three are even a thing are because of a PROPHECY and not a OMEN these things are completely different.
Last time i was this early Dovewing had one eye color.
Scp 9582 so never?
Yes! You're going to talk about Hawkwing's Journey next!!!
I believe the only reason Firestar was the fourth cat was because his destiny was to die afterwards. It was a "good way" to end his character overall.
let's play a game..
every 5th like is going to be forced to read, and LOVE EVERY POINT in Spottedleaf's heart.
LET'S GO!
CookieDragon
I actually kind of liked Spottedleaf's heart... So makes sense that I'm 5th like...
CookieDragon tfw u can see the likes
:,D
Emilykitten
Ahh, yes! We all have our own opinions, and i'm glad you said that!
Personally, though,
I'm behind on the books so I've only seen the rants which have shaped my opinion on the book so far...
-whyamisoserioustoday?-
CookieDragon if I like this... I'm the15th like...
No!
Nooo!
Nooooooooooo!!!!!!
Honestly, this video is spot on! Bravo! There is nothing else I could say. Keep making videos
Haha, I don't know what goes trough my head while I'm reading books :D I mean I kinda noticed some of these plot holes, but I guess I was swallowed up by nostalgia and couldn't see clearly. Omen of the Stars surely has many, MANY problems, but luckily the characters and the World of Warriors made it interesting!
Thanks for opening my eyes on some of the problems and giving awesome ideas for non-canon plot developments! These two Simmy Speaks videos were amazing and very enjoyable to watch!
I liked your idea about the clan cats getting beaten, it would’ve made for an interesting plot twist. But I still liked the series
When Rock is yelling at The Three, he yells about how they remembered the villains, yet like some parts of history, you have to remember it, or history repeats itself
tennele u should make a rewrite fanfiction
I personally really agree with you on the idea of having the Dark Forest actually succeed in their plans mid series, rather than this horrible ending that we get in Omen of the Stars. I remember when I first read the last book, it felt so disappointing for the amount of build up that the series gave it. The last series of battles felt so cliche, with such weak writing that I kind of questioned why it happened at all.
Not to mention that Lionblaze, Jayfeather, and Dovewing really had no place in the final battle of the series. Their role played no significant points, other than that: Woah, Lionblaze can take on a bunch of cats! It feels so much like a children's cartoon, where the heros are just set up to win from the beginning, and their actual journey just becomes plot filler. This single point probably irritates me more than any other issue in the Warriors series, because I've always seen these books as a nice bridge between children's entertainment and adult literature. It introduces a friendly concept and ties in heavy themes that make it compelling for a younger audience- at least, that's the affect it had on me. So to see such honestly bad writing come out of thousands of pages, and years of reading, is so upsetting.
The series would have been so much better if, as you said, there was a low point. I would actually be curious to see a fan rewrite of the series with this plot point, because it would actually give the main heros a reason to exist. We could see a lot more interesting points come out of the cats of the Clans, and raise a lot of questions about what life would actually be like in a reality where TigerClan was real. What would become of StarClan? Would the Dark Forest cats make sure to kill off "good" cat's spirits before they make it to StarClan?
I know I'm late to reply, but seriously I love that last point you talked about redemption, I would love to see even Hawkfrost get redeemed through his love of Ivypool, when he attacks her in the books you can tell he is angry because he feels betrayed by Ivypool, he is a very angry, conflicted character, and I have loved a book that focuses on his feelings, it definitely make him an even more interesting cat, these thoughts are why Hawkfrost is one of my fav villians because I can see that he is just trying his best to be all evil to make his father proud, even when he does think he's doing the wrong thing, maybe his love for Ivypool could be better explained in this book, maybe show some conflicts between Hawkfrost and his other siblings, (Mothwing, Brambleclaw, ect.) Maybe even with his father Tigerstar, telling Hawkfrost not to care for other cats, that love was weakness and things like that. Maybe even in the last moments of his after life before he fades forever he apologizes to Ivypool and Brambleclaw, and we get to see clips of Hawkfrosts life from his point of view, filled with anger, hate, and maybe even guilt, it would be an amazing book and I know I would definitely want to read it.
thank you for reading if you made it this far!
These videos are really nice to listen to while doing something.
I personally like to write books... this vid just gave me a bunch of ideas and I actually would really like to see this version of omen of the stars!!
I live for these videos. Listen while doing schoolwork-- keeps my mind active but relaxed and entertained. Love it!
That was really interesting!! it makes me see the series in a whole different way, and your ideas for changing the storyline are awesome and well thought of :)
4:42 that picture represents me and my friend
I'm Jayfeather and my friend is Yellowfang
Omen of the Stars was like the Heathers/High School Musical but cats.
And it reminded me of Shakespeare in a way
‘Hissss.... thou kill me brotherin, die fool!’
‘Well thou was born!’
‘I didn’t ask to be born!’
I don’t know
It’s just some joke my friend and I made up
This series was sort of like Batman and Robin: It caused Harper Collins to go back, reevaluate the series as a whole, and as a result we got much better books like Dawn of the Clans and Vision of Shadows.
4:16 damn… Jaybae good lookin... Now I see why LizWiz likes him.
I just want to say Thank You! You made me like these books. I never rlly hated them but they didn't give me that umph and now I can remember them in a really nice way. So thank you. :)
Ahh, I love listening to these!
It's been a good couple of years since I've read Omen of the Stars, so my memory lacks a little, but I can 100% remember I felt a lot more interested during The Forgotten Warrior (which was then followed by The Last Hope), haha, so it took quite awhile to pay off. I do wish that more happened with the Dark Forest cats, seeing as how, like you said, most of them weren't... all that evil when they were alive??? It would've been more compelling if they weren't written so one-dimensionally, but ALAS
Anyhow, I love your insight into the series! Nice job!
I really like your entire idea on this whole ark it would have been so much better like what your suggesting
I saw this in my suggested videos and dropped everything :D
This is so very true! The Erins could have had Starclan forgive The Dark Forest and try to get the living cats to also remember them for their good. I mean it'd be cute if Tigerstar had given Bramblestar one of his lives. Father and Son. Nobody in the clan seems to realize that, Tigerstar was a great warrior but his pride took over him.
I think omen of the stars theme is change, they face a ton of change throughout this ark with Dovewing suddenly getting so much attention and Ivypool feeling put down, Firestar learning who the three are, the dark forest taking recruits, the clans becoming hostile to one another then getting unified to tackle the dark forest, Cinderheart learning about her past life as Cinderpelt, and the big one. Hollyleaf being lost in the tunnels, eventually coming back, and Dovewing being the real third cat.
yesss! perfect thing to listen to while finishing up a painting, so excited
SicParvisMagna WHAT THE HECK THATS LEGIT WHAT I WAS ABOUT TO DO!! XD
SwiftStormOwo Yay LOL that's awesome! I love listening to Tennelle's discussions while I work :>
Something that amazes me in the last hope is the scene were Breezepelt tries to kill Lionblaze and Crowfeather stops him, I personaly think that it could have been more interesting than Breezepelt "forgiving and forgetting" everything that his father had done to him, Breezepelt could have simply killed Crowfeather.
btw srry for my bad inglish (i'm lazy today for any mistakes)
i would love for mapleshade to come to peace with those who wronged her and felt wronged by her, considering she set this whole thing into motion because the clans turned on her and so did starclan
As a great fog swept over the four clans the old one awakens and a army of demon comes out of the fog.
I want Thornclaw and Brackenfur brother moments
I've been wanting to write fanfiction on what could have happened in Omen Of The Stars, though nothing really stuck with me. However your two videos really gave me inspiration on it :o I've got some really neat ideas now, time to write them down!
Thanks for making this!
I'm making my own story (No its not warriors, its Kirby) inspired by the whole "Dark Forest rising up" thing in Omen of the Stars, and you covering it helped me make the plot better than the inspiration. again, thanks.
I screams I IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS AHHHHHH
Great discussion!!!
All of this is so true! I love how you analyzed this. Well, time to write a new fan fiction with every single idea you said.
YAY PART TWO 😄😄😄 xD
(Love your vids btw :3)
"yes senpai step on me"
Me: *unholy noises sort of like laughter*
Oh my gosh, I love your redemption idea SO MUCH! I wish that had been how the story had gone, especially since I have always railed against Mr "I'm going to murder your children because you don't wuv me" being in StarClan. Seeing some acknowledgement would have been wonderful. I felt the battle at the end was so rushed, that seeing some discussion of the Dark Forest cats would have helped sell it a lot better.
imagine if thistleclaw was redeemed and he got to stay with bluestar and his mate, and maple got an apology from all those warriors who wronged her and she could live the rest of her eternity with her kits? it'd be so heart touching and it would make everyone reading it so relieved and I'd probably cry. I want to animate this alternative or at least draw it! thank you for saying this, it's so creative and that would have been awesome.
SOL IS A WASTE OF TIME
I've never heard someone say it before but thank you for voicing this
I know it's a bit too late into the 5th series to do this, but what if there is still a way to redeem the dark forest cats. No one really knows what could have happened after the dead cats died but maybe they went to some different place. Like a limbo, where there is literally nothing and you cant do anything besides talk to other cats. This could make all the dark forest cats rethink their decisions as they are stuck there for moons and when they find a way out they come back living but have changed their ways. Or maybe dead cats who die are reincarnated moons later and they get all their memories back realizing who they originally were after they grew up in the clans. That they've lived their lives under good morals to later learn they were traitors to their clans. Just an idea!
I've chosen to listen to Simmy Speaks on my commute to and from work :)
I think Rock was saying it's Jayfeather's fault because he brought Rock's peoples to the mountains to become the Tribe, and then their cats went to the forest to make the Clans.
So, actually, it is Jayfeather's fault. But he doesn't know the whole thing about it.
wow i love the dark forest redemption idea! i hope that if you do an omen of the stars rewrite that you would include that
what's this? do I hear the Okami soundtrack in the background about halfway through? nice.
I absolutely love the forgiveness idea! I think I especially like it Bc of how, a lot of the time, if a character does something wrong, they're immediately written off by fans and the books. And as you said, it's not forgetting or excusing all the bad they've done, but remembering the good, trying to understand them, and moving forward!
Thanks, Tenelle. Now I want to rewrite Omen of the Stars :)
I love these videos, they explain my feelings on OotS perfectly.
Any chance you might eventually do a video on whether or not Thistleclaw deserved to go to the Dark Forest or not?
I must say, one of the main themes in Dawn of the Clans are family. To put it without spoilers, the stories defines what is a family, and if a family needs to be blood related. It's really well developed, and is one of the reasons DotC is my favorite arc.
Another cool idea for the dark forest cats would be that in picking, training, and bonding (at least one-sidedly) to their living apprentices: they make the living cats susceptible to possession and eventual resurrection via trading places or something. That would at least made their whole recruiting process to loyal cats more plausible
i really like the loststar rewrite from jjadestar on tumblr! its a pretty cool idea, with brightheart keeping lostface as her name, training jaypaw (including him becoming a warrior), and just generally being really awesome xD ( this includes her managing to save snowkit, and they figure out a way to train him as well!). i really recommend checking it out bc theres also a lot of neat art to go with it :D
I really like the redeeming idea especially with Mapleshade and Thristleclaw. They both need to reunited with the ones they love. Please Erins let this happen!
I like your idea for how omen of the stars could have been and I probably would've enjoyed it more if it worked like that.
I think the "Firestar killed in in earlier book" idea, would have been an heart-wrenching plot twist to Omen of the star's story. I think it would have been interesting to see how some cat's (for example, Sandstorm, Graystripe, his daughters, and other kin) lives still carried on throughout the next book(s) and seeing a more detailed writing of Brmableclaw's rise form deputy to leader of thunderclan. I think it's a good headcanon :)
I think it would be better if we had something about the Dark Forest motivation. Ivypool could discover them. For example, Maple shade wants to abolish the warrior code that had her and her kits exiled. In Mapleshade’s mind the warrior code caused the death of her kits.
And Mapleshade would be entirely incorrect. She did not have to go in the river. SHE caused her kittens deaths, not Appledusk, not Oakstar, and not Darkstar. Then she decides while being dead, I’m gonna ruin another cat’s life by killing everyone he cares about. She became a villain due to her own stupidity.
I hate her too. I’m just saying that would be her motivation. You’re right, she’s wrong
Would love to see a fan made re right of the books. Though that would take forever, I would be looking forward to it.