Tyler Vela & Vocab Malone - Apostasy, Open Theism & Paganism
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- Former Calvinist and Classical Theist apologist, turned Christian Apostate, Calvinist and Classical Theist apologist Tyler Vela @TheFreedThinkerPodcast recently appeared on Vocab Malone's channel @VocabMalone to discuss his rejection of the Christian faith. The interview did not go well for Tyler, as he remained defensive, spoke over Vocab, frequently interrupting him and made repeated efforts to derail the conversation, or answer questions which had not been asked.
Vela seemed either unwilling or unable to answer simple questions about his current views.
During the course of the interview, Tyler denied claiming the God of the Bible is a pagan Hebraic Mega-Zeus... so Idol Killer prepped this short video to demonstrate Mr. Vela suffers from a poor memory, or is intentionally dishonest. There are several clips from when Vela appeared on @MythVisionPodcast
You can watch Vela crumble under Vocab's simple questioning:
www.youtube.co...
You can watch the full video where Vela calls the God of the Bible "pagan":
www.youtube.co...
#deconversion #Calvinism #religion
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Vela deleted his comment on this thread, but to document what happened:
1. He claimed the God of the Bible is pagan and Zeus-like on Mythvision
2. He then denied ever saying this when on Vocab's show.
3. In the comments here, he continued to deny 1.
4. After being pressed, he finally conceded 1 and tried to say he applied it to one of many concepts of God.
Just as I was writing my "Thank You" to him for finally admitting what he vehemently denied, he deleted his comments.
I took screenshots of the entire thread, should you want them.
Vela, will be at least happy to know Zeus is a real Person who lived on Crete and has a burial site there, where people visit year after year. We also have history books that say Zeus was a real King in that region around the time of Abraham. Therefore Vela admits, the God of the Hebrews is a real person.
Just an FYI from an older Preacher-creature. Personally, I don't refer to myself as "Open Thiest". It triggers too many & to be honest, some portray our God as a bit too haphazard (IMO).
Rather, I show them in scripture where God interacts with man. Starting with the creation of Adam, letting him name the animals...
Nor do I use "Provisionist" (it's extra biblical & unnecessary, but yes I use "Trinity", lol).
Or "Dispensationalist" (it triggers too). But explain "No longer does a High Priest go into the Holy of Holies to cover my sins annually" but Dispies morph on too many things (IMO).
Tyler seems to have forgotten that once you post something online, it stays there, even if you try to delete it! It's ironic that he was claiming the "God of the Bible" is "pagan and Zeus-like". While that is untrue of God as He is revealed in Scripture, it is 100% true of the false god of Calvinism. This is because Calvinism is hyper-Augustinianism and the Calvinist definition for their pet word "Sovereign" actually means "Zeus-like". As Augustinianism flows from pagan Greek philosophy, its assumptions about the divine naturally flow from the Socratic, Platonic and Aristotelian worldview that presupposes the truth of Zeus and other pagan deities from the Greek pantheon.
@@mikelyons2831 👍👍
Vela:" I'm not a neo-Platonist." Also Vela:" I think an atheist like Thomas Nagel, who wrote Mind and Cosmos, I think he still gets it RIGHT, the best grounding explanations are something like theism or something like neo-Platonism." How can one like Tyler Vela say he is not a neo-Platonist but then turn around and say that the best answers are to be found in neo-Platonism? Calvinism really did a number on him I suspect. Honestly I'm praying for Tyler I hope you shed those vain philosophies and embrace the love, grace and salvation that is in our Lord Jesus Christ.
Poor guy. He was a Calvinist, so, not being consistent is now normal for him.
People say that calvinism isn't the reason for the paganism of tyler but its clear to see that the corrupt calvinistic portrayal of GOD and HIS righteousness is what has driven him insane in the same way it has john piper but just on the flipside of the coin .
This is a perfect example of why GOD warns us about philosophers.
How has Piper been driven crazy? I'm genuinely asking
@wretchedsinnerRighteousSavior
My friend, I'm not being malicious or trying to be offensive, but can't you see the sorrow and confusion behind his eyes when he speaks about the terrible things he claims GOD does and what he thinks GOD is responsible for decreeing , as he confusidly describes his idea of GOD'S character ? Which I don't agree with of course , but that's neither here nor there . He just can't put the love of GOD together with what he erroneously believes GOD is responsible for such as r8pe , torture , abortion , satan worship and creating people simply to hate and torture for HIS glory of all things.
It's all just a needless giant contradiction in his head and my heart breaks for him .
I think it sad that one of the reasons Tyler appears to have left Christianity was due to a lack of feeling connection to God (loving, relational, personal, etc.), but insists on rejecting a view of God that would seem to address these areas better than Calvinism. In other words, Tyler seems to have left Christianity since he saw Calvinism as Christianity all while saying he was expecting God to be what a non-Calvinist claims God to be. Sad.
Exactly!
It's still "somewhat" puzzling to me why people do not have "not of this world" experiences over time, like I did/do. Maybe I was so stupid that God knew he had to reveal himself, and believe me I WAS stupid about anything religious.
I'm still stupid though but have 47 years of experience since that first God meeting. 😉
@@SpaceCadet4Jesus16+ years an athiest, then I had 2 personal experiences and 1 involving family. How did it happen to me an athiest?
After years of struggling with depression, hopelessness, watching society collapsing, I got to a point of sincerely asking God to reveal himself. True sincerity. Getting on my knees, crying and begging.
Majority of people do not ever get that desperate. And if they do, they look to ANYTHING besides God.
@@alisterrebelo9013 Glad to hear I'm not alone and that you've found the real truth about life. God really does appear when you desperately seek him.
Make sure Tyler reads this because wow did that hit the nail on the head so good.
In my experiences with Tyler he seems to be a classic case of someone who invested far too much time reading ABOUT the Bible, and not enough time reading the Bible.
I cited scripture a number of times and he had no clue what i was talking about.
Very sad.
Never did that happen.
@@TheFreedThinkerPodcast friend. You were completely unaware of the several evidences for the trinity appearing to Abraham and Lot in Genesis 18 and 19.
You were completely unaware of Luke 19.41-44 applying to the specific promises of Luke 1.67-79.
And you still haven't produced a single passage of a Gentile ever being Elect.
All you did was insult me and claim i had no clue what i was talking about, and you grilled me over and over again about how many "scholars and authors and other human authorities" i had read instead of meeting me in the Scriptures.
@@John17apologeticsHow many scholars and authors you had read? This is where the pollution starts.
God doesn't get an idea in your head edgewise when a person is immersed in para biblical literature until you are well acquainted with his voice and leading by staying out of such stuff.
@@John17apologetics oh. You mean “disagrees with your reading”. When you say “unaware” it makes it seem like I didn’t know those passages existed. You should be more clear (ie honest).
@@paulheberling2750 the Bible has its own philosophy. The ECFs, Rabbinical teachers, etc. are the proponents of this philosophy. And all of them rejected the Neo Platonist God of Tyler. Tyler's God is literally a pagan God.
You know, the country music “philosopher” Aaron Tippin said it best about folks like Vela, when he said, “You’ve got to stand for something, or you’ll fall for anything.”…
Why do I have the feeling Tyler is going to make an appearence at The Honest Calvinist conference? 😈🤣🤣
That would trigger Calvinists. They would deny that he was ever a "real" Calvinist because he apostatized. As they hold to the "P" of "TULIP", their feeble answer to apostates who leave the faith is the usual feeble blend of "sour grapes" and the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.
@@DamonNomad82 Yet, they are inconsistent.
@BtZealot, yes,yes,yes... perfect.🤠. Tyler continued to affirm the Calvinist system is the correct way to understand the Bible, he just no longer believes it's true. Overall the Calvinist community has bee unusually silent about the popular/prominent leaders who have recently left Calvinism, and even their faith in Christ. It's kinda hard to say they didn't "understand" Calvinism. 🤔
And according to TULIP, their apostasy is only a manifestation of God's unchangeable decree, just as was the faith they previously professed. It perfectly illustrates the fear inherent to all honest Calvinists. Evanescent Grace is the only way to explain apostasy in Calvinism. And if God did does it to some people, one can never know if God has planned to do it to them as well. They all profess faith....until they don't.🤷🏻♂ Nobody is guaranteed the "Gift of Perseverance" on this side of the 'grassy knoll'. The system allows zero assurance of one's own salvation.
@@DamonNomad82and you're strawmaning is also pathetic! LOL 😂
Just because Grace can be resisted doesn't mean God through the Gift of the Holy Spirit doesn't preserve the Saint: maybe you're Not the true Scotsman to know!
The Holy Spirit gives U that assurance : you should repent and believe as it's a gift God wants to give you but he also gave you the ability to choose and reject!
Obviously I am NOT a 5 point Calvinist but do believe in God's preservation of the Saints: we Obviously can't do it ourselves!
@@davidjanbaz7728 Not half as "pathetic" as illiterate clowns who falsely accuse people of "strawmanning" when they don't even know "your" from "you're". Also, holding to any of the points of "TULIP" makes one heretical, and, if one holds to some but not all, inconsistent to boot, as none of the points can stand without the others. The Bible is full of warnings not to fall away and apostatize from the faith. To hold to the "P", just like holding to the "T", "U", "L" or "I", is to go directly against the Bible and to accuse God of either being deceptive or too dull-witted to say what He clearly means. God doesn't take away our ability to make choices at the moment we accept Him. While He will never desert us once we have come to Him, and will constantly take steps to keep us from straying or to draw us back once we have strayed, He doesn't force us to stay with Him. To suggest that He does is every bit as evil and irrational as the Calvinist idea that God has to "elect" someone ahead of time for them to be able to believe and be saved. The "point of no return", beyond which a believer can no longer apostatize and be lost if they deliberately decide to do so, is either when that individual dies or when Jesus returns.
Vela was predestined to do this
Vela" left the God of the Bible for the god of philosophy" that's what Gnosticism(Calvinism)does to many individuals....it's disheartening to see for some individuals that when their system of belief crumbles they simply stop seeking truth.
That's true! While his "Hebraic Mega-Zeus" is nothing like God actually is, it is a perfect term for the "god" of Calvinism/Augustinian Gnosticism that derives most of its view of how the divine interacts with the mortal world from Greek paganism.
Looks like he doesn't accept any interpretation other than Calvinism due to Conformational Bias & rejects the God of the Bible. I might be wrong, but it seems like its pride that has caused him to walk out rather than humbly admitting an interpretation that is consistent with the scriptures but not with his former position. In short left Christianity instead of admitting he was wrong about Calvinism.
That's exactly how I see it too.... I've questioned whether or not he was a Christian after watching his interactions with Dr Flowers.
Now he's walked away and look where it left him.
John 6:68 NKJV - But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
Oh the gnostics are strong in this one
(Waving a Jedi hand in your face) There are no gnostics here, you will let us pass...
This is the way... to apostasy
@@IdolKiller The sad thing is he still affirms the Calvinist system to be the correct way to understand and interpret the Bible. He just no longer believes it to be true. He would sooner abandon Christ than TULIP. Is this revealing of where his allegiance has been all along?
We do pray for Tyler. After he left the faith he continued to affirm the Calvinist system is the correct way to understand the Bible, he just no longer believes it's true. Overall the Calvinist community has bee unusually silent about the popular/prominent leaders who have recently left Calvinism, and even their faith in Christ. It's kinda hard to say they didn't "understand" Calvinism. 🤔 ....crickets.
And according to TULIP, their apostasy is only a manifestation of God's unchangeable decree, just as was the faith they previously professed. It perfectly illustrates the fear inherent to all honest Calvinists. Evanescent Grace is the only way to explain apostasy in Calvinism. And if God did does it to some people, one can never know if God has planned to do it to them as well. They all profess faith....until they don't.🤷🏻♂ Nobody is guaranteed the "Gift of Perseverance" on this side of the 'grassy knoll'. The system allows zero assurance of one's own salvation.
Research SSH (socio-sexual hierarchy) and see whether you think Tyler fits the profile of a Gamma. The Gamma’s A#1 trait is that they are not honest to their own selves. One of the tells for a Gamma is that attractive women are instinctively repulsed by them (where “attractive” is defined as having been pursued by desirable potential mates, and having confidence of future pursuits-i.e. women who are not “desperate”).
Wow - the cognitive dissonance in his body language is evident.
I feel terrible for this man. He's been taken in and destroyed by a lie.
This would be sad were it not for the obvious lies and obfuscation.
Nevertheless, we prayerfully remember:
“The Lord’s servant must not quarrel, but must be gentle to everyone, able to teach, and patient, instructing his opponents with gentleness. Perhaps God will grant them repentance leading them to the knowledge of the truth. Then they may come to their senses and escape the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.”
-2 Timothy 2:24-26
Wow!! I was looking for videos about what is wrong about open theism and Braxton suggested Vella. Then I found this!!!! What???? I can’t even.
Vela realized the God of the Bible has Dynamic Omniscience and he went apostate. He was also facing personal sin and may never have even known the Lord. So there's a lot going on with his implosion
Sad...just sad.
WOW "What good is your god"
Tyler - "I don’t know"
Probably should figure all that out before doing interviews, he's a lost soul and his mind confused. Must a really hard for him. 🙏
John 6:68 NKJV - But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
He has "no idea" how he's become so lost...
Didn't this guy pretty much leave Christianity?
Yup.
Yes, he has completely left the Christian faith, while continuing to defend Calvinism and Classical Theism. He's said Jesus was a delusional failed apocalyptic prophet and called the God of the Bible a pagan Zeus-like being.
@@IdolKiller It boggles my mind how people can deny Christ but still try to argue what is proper Christianity. But I guess if your theology is a carnal philosophy that makes sense.
Jesus as Son of God ----> IN. Calvinism ----> OUT.
He should try this combination.
@@IdolKillerHe's deceived by demons.
When liberalism is more important than your faith.
Tyler Vela calls God pagan while believing in a God that is actually pagan.
He sees anything apart from the idol he created is "pagan".
@@IdolKiller sad. Because Neo Platonism is literally Paganism. His God isn't the God of the Bible. It's the God of a pagan philosophical worldview.
What a disaster!
Tyler maintains that the concept of God developed over the different writers of the Bible. So, he seems to concede that Idol killer view is biblical from OT writers perspectives.
Idol probably would argue that you just don’t have that changing in the NT
Calvinists quote secular philosophers far more than the scripture. Scripture is of little value to them. They twist and warp it mercilessly.
JOH3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Looks clear to me.
Being argumentative in lieu of making an argument.
On the topic of open theism, could you put out a video expositing Ecclesiastes 3: 11-16?
In my understanding this negates open theism. But I wanted to understand how you frame it. I hold to the word and the spirit interacting within time, but the father being outside of spacetime always. I believe that's the meaning of the passage, but I want to hear your thoughts on it.
Is funny how he thinks in the stream with MV that because God takes credit or cause for tragic things happening in the bible, is equal to God determining those things, quite a leap. He thinks that is the home run argument for calvinism. Calvinist didn't have their best with him but his journey out of the faith is sad too.
0:30 Did he just go full Marcion? Never go full Marcion.
Looks that way!
@@IdolKiller I made a meme about it. I just can’t believe he would rather walk away from Christ than walk away from his theology.
The God of Calvinism is the god of Philosophy. And he didn’t show him compassion supposedly so that’s why he left
busted!
Maybe pagans had a more accurate conception of what a god is than classical theists.
No pagans concept of GOD is completely irrational.
@@sigmanocopyrightmusic8737 How?
@@petromax4849 you believe god can be limited
My god is stronger than your god. He tortures us in a more awful way, that's why he s the best
It's silly, isn't it