Hi Jake. This video is really useful. If you could add a portion where you shoot different arrows with different node placement. Just so we have an idea of the importance of Arrow nodes
Would like to get your thoughts on how important this is or isn't with respect to other factors. For instance, in Barebow or bowhunting it's more common to run a longer arrow to improve the gaps. I'd imagine many barebow set ups might have the node out in front of the contact points. Shortening the arrow cascades a whole bunch of other changes: need heavier point to correct tune, which moves node even further forward, changes point-on and gaps, and arrow speed/trajectory. I would imagine in those cases, aligning the node to the contact point would be a "nice to have" but not override any of those other factors?
Jake, thanks for the very useful video as well as for the complete effort on this Channel. As far as I understand this story, it seems to me that playing with plunger position makes sense also. For example, on an Olympic bow with clicker and shorter arrows we should always use rear plunger hole on the riser but for longer arrows (like I have on my bare bow) using the front plunger hole can have sense if front arrow node is too far forward from contact area.
Great video Jake, thanks for this. Is there a good way of finding the contact point on arrows that doesn't rely on a worn groove? Otherwise it seems like you'd have to struggle with unforgiving arrows until they start to wear!
I would imagine coating the expected wear area of the arrow in marking blue (Dykem) and using a rubber tip so the stop doesn't strip off the marking would do it.
Hey Jake, how does the internal length of the point factor into a weight increase? Lets say when comparing a standard 100 grain Easton 04 point on a 28" arrow - to a 110 grain Tophat SL that goes 1,4 cm deeper into a shortened 27.6" arrow? Does that mean i could increase foc, keep my spine, and move the node back, at the cost of 0.4" of arrow?
Jake, thanks a lot again for these videos. I just wanted to ask you how you find the grooves if you're not using a beiter plunger? I have ACE arrows and a shibuya plunger, and I have shoot them hundreds of times, but im not able to sense the grooves you mentioned. Is there another way? Thanks a lot again
Hi Jake. I shoot a trad bow and my side point of arrow contact is where the deepest point of the grip. this point is solid using a hard small thin hard plastic piece as my plunger under seal skin rest. To move the position of the nodes, you mention to add point weight or less point weight. does this not effect bare shaft tuning. Great video.
Jake does the forward node relate to the use of bows w/out a plunger? Does the node location indicate the best draw length location on for a specific length of arrow?
Here is Q for you: I shoot off the shelf. I have marks from black leather wall in the middle of the arrow, closer to fletched portion. And I shoot against the paradox (Slavic draw). I get pretty tight groups, but if I could get better shot forgiveness, I would not mind it. Do you have suggestions for a situation like this? Thanks!
Jake interesting .. thanks But 1 q how do you adjust the rear node position? I use ACE mainly with inserts and screw in points. When I use ultra slo mo video I can see that the rear node in very close if not exactly on the front vane tape. This tends to mean a risk of contact with the leading edge of the vane. Ideally the rear node needs to be 1" forwards to optimise vane clearance. Arrow spine according to bareshafts is about spot . The main dealer says one issue with the inserts is they are very long and tend to push the nodes backwards. Is this true? If so how to move them forwards again? I thought I could remove some of the ali part of the insert as it is very long and light - about 1/2" weights only 4gr so can easily be restored using a higher point weight. Really would appreciate your comments as this is not discussed ANYWHERE - Alos may be why tungsten points are better than steel in X10?
Thats part of the reason for sure on the Tungsten argument. How far back are your vanes? I put mine about 1" from the groove of the nock to the back of the vane.
What if i move my plunger in front socket on my riser, would it help compensate my front node excessive front position? I mean would it move plungers contact zone on the arrow? And if i do so, do i need to move my rest to the front socket?
Jake, check the paper by DK Lieu at this location sites.google.com/site/archerytest123/resources. His paper is a deep discussion about arrow nodes and how to use the knowledge for archery tuning.
what about compound? Thanks Jake!!
This is what Ive been waiting for...
Thanks a lot Jake!
Hi Jake. This video is really useful. If you could add a portion where you shoot different arrows with different node placement. Just so we have an idea of the importance of Arrow nodes
Wow ive been in the sport 23 years and ive learnt something today.....that jake your biceps are huge!!!
Danke!
Thanks for the super thanks!
Would like to get your thoughts on how important this is or isn't with respect to other factors. For instance, in Barebow or bowhunting it's more common to run a longer arrow to improve the gaps. I'd imagine many barebow set ups might have the node out in front of the contact points. Shortening the arrow cascades a whole bunch of other changes: need heavier point to correct tune, which moves node even further forward, changes point-on and gaps, and arrow speed/trajectory. I would imagine in those cases, aligning the node to the contact point would be a "nice to have" but not override any of those other factors?
Where can I buy these nodes?
Jake, thanks for the very useful video as well as for the complete effort on this Channel. As far as I understand this story, it seems to me that playing with plunger position makes sense also. For example, on an Olympic bow with clicker and shorter arrows we should always use rear plunger hole on the riser but for longer arrows (like I have on my bare bow) using the front plunger hole can have sense if front arrow node is too far forward from contact area.
I just saw the answer in the comments. Thanks again.
I remember when we are 50 suscriptors. Congratulations great channel. Alwais all the best
Great video Jake, thanks for this. Is there a good way of finding the contact point on arrows that doesn't rely on a worn groove? Otherwise it seems like you'd have to struggle with unforgiving arrows until they start to wear!
I would imagine coating the expected wear area of the arrow in marking blue (Dykem) and using a rubber tip so the stop doesn't strip off the marking would do it.
Will second the previous post - I always wanted to understand arrow nodes. Thanks Jake!
There's something really beautiful about aluminum arrows.
So, is the placement of the rear node equally important? Should there be wear at the end of the arrow aswell?
Hello what about doing a video on how to deal the wind while shooting ?
Already done... Check the Aiming video...Take home: Do not gap shoot...
Hey Jake, how does the internal length of the point factor into a weight increase? Lets say when comparing a standard 100 grain Easton 04 point on a 28" arrow - to a 110 grain Tophat SL that goes 1,4 cm deeper into a shortened 27.6" arrow? Does that mean i could increase foc, keep my spine, and move the node back, at the cost of 0.4" of arrow?
Jake, thanks a lot again for these videos. I just wanted to ask you how you find the grooves if you're not using a beiter plunger? I have ACE arrows and a shibuya plunger, and I have shoot them hundreds of times, but im not able to sense the grooves you mentioned. Is there another way? Thanks a lot again
I'm in the same boat, even tried a layer of sharpie but the waremarks from going into the target makes it impossible to tell :(
Hi Jake. I shoot a trad bow and my side point of arrow contact is where the deepest point of the grip. this point is solid using a hard small thin hard plastic piece as my plunger under seal skin rest. To move the position of the nodes, you mention to add point weight or less point weight. does this not effect bare shaft tuning. Great video.
Do you find the node on the full shaft or after cutting to length?
Will you explain spline of an arrow and how to make use of it in one of your future videos?
Jake does the forward node relate to the use of bows w/out a plunger?
Does the node location indicate the best draw length location on for a specific length of arrow?
Can U explain about how to use adjustable V bar and what is the function of it?
As I do not have any noticeable marks from the pressure button
do you know of another way to locate the points of contact to align nodes??
¿and how do you find the node on a brand new arrow then?, and how do you actually modify it
Excellent upload !
Don't the measures that you suggest for adjusting the node position potentially screw up your FOC?
Here is Q for you: I shoot off the shelf. I have marks from black leather wall in the middle of the arrow, closer to fletched portion. And I shoot against the paradox (Slavic draw). I get pretty tight groups, but if I could get better shot forgiveness, I would not mind it. Do you have suggestions for a situation like this? Thanks!
Jake interesting .. thanks But 1 q how do you adjust the rear node position? I use ACE mainly with inserts and screw in points. When I use ultra slo mo video I can see that the rear node in very close if not exactly on the front vane tape. This tends to mean a risk of contact with the leading edge of the vane. Ideally the rear node needs to be 1" forwards to optimise vane clearance. Arrow spine according to bareshafts is about spot . The main dealer says one issue with the inserts is they are very long and tend to push the nodes backwards. Is this true? If so how to move them forwards again? I thought I could remove some of the ali part of the insert as it is very long and light - about 1/2" weights only 4gr so can easily be restored using a higher point weight. Really would appreciate your comments as this is not discussed ANYWHERE - Alos may be why tungsten points are better than steel in X10?
Thats part of the reason for sure on the Tungsten argument. How far back are your vanes? I put mine about 1" from the groove of the nock to the back of the vane.
What if i move my plunger in front socket on my riser, would it help compensate my front node excessive front position? I mean would it move plungers contact zone on the arrow? And if i do so, do i need to move my rest to the front socket?
I would NOT do that... causes a lot of torque issues. I need to make a video about that some day.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery Ok, thanks. Looking forward to it 😀
How do you confirm what your contact points are if your plunger is not wearing away the carbon shaft.
Try painting 4 inches of the arrow, in the plunger zone. After a few shots you should see a mark.
Rijodel actually paint or something similar?
@@adrianmiller2326 Try nail polish, or wood varnich. Just need a line, at the height of the plunger
Tried this. A line of sharpie MIGHT be okay, but paint is going to throw it so far off. I guess use something washable.
How can you find the contact points when shooting off the shelf (no plunger)
Probably foot spray, its a white powder that will show contact points, hard though when the arrow sticks in a bale.
Great video as always!!!
Do x10’s have nodes?
The nodes should be the airy and bessel points and can be calculated
Jake, check the paper by DK Lieu at this location sites.google.com/site/archerytest123/resources. His paper is a deep discussion about arrow nodes and how to use the knowledge for archery tuning.