Arrow Selection How to Select the Right Spine for You | Pick the correct arrow spine
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- Опубліковано 1 кві 2020
- Lots of people waste money on arrows when they pick the incorrect spine for their needs, I will help make sure that never happens to you. A couple SIMPLE things get over looked and after you watch this video, you wont make the same mistake that many many others have made when picking new arrows out.
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Hey Jake, I am a 32 year old from Nigeria who just started archery 6 months ago. Just wanted to say that your channel has been an amazing resource for me and my friends who just started archery here in Nigeria as well. Thank you so much for these videos.
Thank you. Often your recommendation matches my experience heartening to me and helps me to give more weight when you cover things I do not know well.
I'm blasting my way through all of your videos, if I have a query you inevitably have done a video on the subject. What I find really great are the little things. You often throw info in as asides to your main subject and these little things are often gold. I hope your channel takes off, you are definitely putting the work in.
I was expecting to see thoughts on dynamic spine and how the tip weight affects the spine selection. Not sure if there can be a future video about this topic. Good video anyways, thank you Jake
Freeakin' Fantastic!
Much appreciated.
Wow, I had no idea how to go about selecting arrows. Thanks Jake!
As usual Jake, superb information broken down well. Thank you good sir!
Hi Jake,
many thanks for this excellent video!
Now I know how to use the chart right!
This information is gold❤
As always a very clear video regarding a sometimes confusing subject. When the right arrow spine and length are determined, can you (maybe in a future video) also comment on how to pick the right point weight (especially when break-off points are used). Thanks in advance
Thanks. Great information.
Thanks for this video Jake. This was the simple and concise explanation that I'd been searching for. Arrow charts are confusing for newbies and manufacturers really could explain them so much better.
Gotta say i love these vids. They almost make me want to switch from compound to recurve. Great job Jake, hope you can keep doing this. And looking forward to you trying out gear witch your not sponsered to use..
I did. Recurve has a lot of form intricacies to master in order to preform well
I commented yesterday, on another video that you could do an awful lotta good for newbies by collating a mix on the lines of "Things you really really need to know from the get-go, but nobody else will explain to you simply". I'm at 4:26 into this one - and it's a "must-have" whenever you get around to compiling that mix. NOW - back to the video, and based on past performance I'm gonna bet that I'll learn/unlearn/re-learn from you something new in the next seven-and-a-bit minutes :-D Go Jake!!
Hi jake
Great video
Thanks for this!
Thank you very helpful info.
Wowza thx for the info!
I've never used an arrow chart that wasn't off by at least one full spine. The chart is more of a guideline than a rule.
Also, point weight (which goes into FOC) is a variable.
Thanks for making this requested video jake! I learned a something new!
Thanks, Jake! Keeping it simple is what I appreciate. I've looked at and tried a couple of spine-selector software packages and they always seem over-engineered and too complicated. It's always seemed to me that I should be able to tell a vendor what my limb weight and draw length are, and my OTF draw weight, and they should be able to tell me within a VERY close range, what spine I should be using. I would then fine-tune the arrow (length, nock, fletching, point weight, etc.) from there. It just seems that the software calculators are all way too complex, asking for 15-20 variables before they'll tell you if you're using the right combination or not.
Holy shit. This is my exact sentiment.
Finally, someone that actually knows and explains what the numbers physically mean. Thanks Jake.
Hi Jake, thank you for the video. I think the video went way to fast cramming lot of information in a short time. One thing I felt it's important to note while picking arrow length is to note the length of your arrow point. For X10, the easton steel point tip is almost an inch long. If cutting a longer arrow it can go past your clicker plate.
Great stuff on the channel and extremely useful info.
But, ever since moving from a 60" field bow 40# to a proper barebow 68" and 38# I have a problem with conflicting arrow spine charts.
Example on my old field bow I've shot 500 spine arrows, 100 grain points, with no problem due to a slight overdraw which made it a 42# bow.
Now on my new bow (38# @ 28") if I apply the same know how in theory 600 spine arrows with 100 grain points should work, but here's the catch, the bow manual recommends 800 spine arrows at this poundage.
Now my question is what to do in this situation, should I pick what they recommend and end up with fishtailing arrows, or play it safer on the stiffer side and play with the point weights instead?
because I don't have much room to cut arrows either at an almost 30" draw.
Hi Jake, great video!
Why do you tune your bare shafts to be a little high and to the right of you fletched arrows?
Don't forget to consider riser length when factoring draw weight. The limbs # is measured with a specific riser length in mind and changing the riser length effects the #.
irrelevant since you’re still measuring ur draw weight for each individual bow
There is not a standard but various systems for calculating the Spine: ATA 26" with a weight of 2 lbs. ; ASTM (Easton) 28" with a weight of 1.94 lbs.; Victory and OTHERS 28" with a weight of 2 lbs.Spine can be converted ATA/0.825=ASTM, ATA/0,8007= Victory . When you choose your spine be sure to read the chart made for that shaft or calculate the conversion.
Thanx for your wiew on choosing arrows 👍 What is your wiew on choosing spine if you find yourself, according to the Easton chart, right between two spines of X10’s?
At 11:00 you mention not having excessive arrow lengths if you are having trouble reaching longer distances. Can you explain a little more about that? In my mind I'm thinking longer arrow is stabilizing earlier providing less resistance for a larger majority of the flight distance resulting in longer range potential. Thank you for your videos. I'm learning alot!
It's basically down to weight
Hello again. I actually had a spine problem not long ago. About a year ago i bought shafts (46# draw weight, 30" shaft length = group T9, 450 spine) for my new limbs but with bareshaft tuning they didnt group with fletched at all until i went up to 48-49# range.
After last summer, for upcoming indoor season i decided to go down in weight from 48-49 to 44-45 and focus on my form more so i bought 500 spined shafts. At that time my form was all over the place that i saw no point in doing bareshafts because i couldnt even hit the target so i decided to do it after i get hang of my shooting again.
About a month ago i decided to finally do bareshaft tuning for my 500s but they seemed to be way too soft for me. Bareshafts were outside of 10 ring target paper at 3 o'clock and even if i turned my plunger to stiffest possible i couldnt get them nowhere near with fletched. This was with 120gr points. I had spare 100gr points so i put those into my 500s and my previous 120gr points i put into my old 450s and tried both. Both of them grouped very similarly around 5-6 range on right side on the target while fletched were in middle. Sure they weren't as far off as 500 with 120gr were so that was an improvement but they were still on right side which is odd.
If a year ago i had to go up to 48# to get them group then how now a year later i have to go even further down, which isnt possible unless i buy new limbs, to get them group again? Could this be because my form has changed since last year? Also what is ideal point weight for 70m? I've always shot 120gr points but would there be any benefits by going lighter points?
Thanks for all these videos! They have helped with my form issues i had before christmas and I've also learned lots of new things. When are you going to talk about finger tabs? I use Fairweather tab but i think my leather is too long. Also would it be better if i had heavier tab or change my plastic plate to brass plate? I like how small and light it feels on my hand.
Meimi someone will help you out. Soon.😉
Hi Jake, so if I am shooting recurve and my arrow length is 31" and my bow weight is 44#, on the Easton selection chart I must go to group T9. According to that group only 3 arrow types have and "R" behind the spine. That means I cannot choose any of the other arrows without an "R" in that group for recurve? What if I would like to shoot a lighter arrow like the Sdrive 19?
So I have a question.
I am looking at getting an Osprey eagle. This bow is a hybridization of both compound and recurve. Which selection chart should I use in this case? I appreciate any one that takes the time to help me on this matter.
Hi. one thing I note from this and all other forums I've looked at is the ease at which it is to determine which table to use once arrow length and draw weight is known. what i dont get is in each table, which model to select. there's like 12 options. in this vid, Jake goes straight to X10s but no explanation as to why? For a beginner who is trying to choose the right arrow for indoor and outdoor targets, which model to use?
Hola Jake,llevo viendo varios videos tuyos y son muy interesantes, llevo jubilado hace 1 año y adquiri un arco de segunda mano cuerpo w&w
y palas hoyt epic de 36 libras que para mi son suficientes, el tema es que me equivoque al escoger las flechas Vitory , cogi spin 600 en vez de 700, y ahora
son rigidas al cortar , mi apertura es de 27,5 pulgadas, cuanto peso podria poner en las puntas?
un saludo
Cool. What about shaft diameter- is there any criteria archer should use to pick up a proper diameter? I am asking since i switched from thin Inspire to thick Platinum plus and this feels so differently. Is there any correlation between shaft diameter and vane length, height?Cause tiny 235 look silly on platinum plus 2315 arrows and seem to give little optimization.
Hi Jake, love the channel but as I am new to archer and looking at this video I see the chart but my stats are 31.5in arrow length and 30lb draw weight as that is what I am most comfortable pulling at present on a recuve bow. My question is this what spine should I be using? I have been using Easton xx75 platinum plus 32in 500spine is this right or should I be going for 600 spine or even weaker. Thanks garry
Awesome video but I'm still unsure what to go with. Im fairly new to archery and I have a Muzzy LVX set at 32.5 lbs at 27 inch draw length. I'm using it for target archery since I got it super cheap. I have 6 carbon shaft arrows that came with another bow but it has no description of the spine on the arrow. I'm so confused. Please help
dude from 3:05 to 3:15 i was convinced i was having a stroke lol
I heard that parallel shaft is stiffer than a barrelled shaft is it true? Does it change the way you select your arrows?
Is there a recommendation for aluminum arrow length past my draw length? I draw 24” and I have 26” predator 700s but I’d like to try a heavier aluminum arrow. That chart was helpful but 26-28” cut arrows gave me choices from T1-T3. My recurve is center cut 30-31# at my draw and my long bow is just ahead of center 26-27# at my draw.
For the barebow 50 Meter arrow, total arrow weight is important for several reasons. Your draw weight determines how heavy an arrow you can shoot 50 meters. (If you are in the light arrow camp, STOP READING HERE) Arrow length, spine, point weight and draw weight are key variables to be considered when selecting an arrow. After working on this arrow for the last six months, I can assure you that you should start with an inexpensive arrow in order to find the arrow spine , length and point weight. This is an adventure. You may even learn the 'tipping point' of your arrow. There could be a formula to build this arrow, but I haven't found it. Seekers will find ;o)
If shooting instinct of the shelf on a great plains model b recurve should i when i cant bareshaft as i can only order premade arrows go slightly stiff or slightly weak?
Jake, where is your starting point on bareshafting? By that I mean do you prefer to start with a solid plunger as many have used from other tuning methods?
Does the long bow use the same arrow as the recurve bow I didn’t see you talk about a long bow?
Dear Jake Kaminski,
What will happen if the arrow is too stiff but i don't do bareshaft... what will happen to the grouping will it change?
when you start diving into barebow more you will start using longer arrow lengths. 1: you can't use a clicker anymore. and 2: a longer arrow makes your gaps/crawls smaller and more manageable
Do you think cutting the arrows is better or should i just leave it to its original size?
@@patoulis if you are asking me and not Jake ..there is no "better" a longer arrow has the advantage / disadvantage, depending on purpose, of being heavier and making your gaps more manageable (plus no cutting which I like from an arrow building standpoint) where as a shorter arrow can net you better speed with a lighter arrow and I think some would say its easier to tune the arrow than the bow. ( That's not my opinion but some would say that)
I’m getting the Easton axis match grade 5mm 300 spine im shooting 70Lbs 28 DL for whitetail is that a good spine ?
Is it normal for the nock of my newly bought arrows to be loose on my string? How do I fix that? It drives me crazy when the arrow is loose to travel up and down while I shoot three under. Any advice will be appreciated!
For outdoor arrows, do you recommend people generally shoot as short of an arrow as they can? There has been discussion lately on some forums about Koreans shooting with their clicker on the riser, or even further back giving them as short an arrow as they can shoot. Do you think there would be an advantage to this with FOC, speed, etc, or could this be problematic with node tuning and potentially cutting too much from an X10. I know there is a limit. Thanks!
You are way to advanced for a beginner like me. You are throwing out terms with which I am unfamiliar and explanations way over my head. Can you recommend someone who is simpler?
I am starting a new set of videos to break it down for beginners. Working on editing a video of helping my wife choose her first set of arrows and the arrow spine for her to grow her draw weight into. Should be up tonight or tomorrow.
Where did you find the arrow chart your using, I looked on the Easton page but can’t find that specific chart?Good video!
eastonarchery.com/targetshaftselector/ also I made a new video more geared for beginners on arrow selection. ua-cam.com/video/MWufh66upzw/v-deo.html
I need a 32.5" arrow for a lower poundage say 30lbs. But those are blanks... How could we overcome this problem?
I'm curious, why do we even need arrows to flex? It makes sense for traditional bows, because the arrow needs to "bend" around the handle.
But every modern bow has the handle carved out, so it shoots straight. So why not just have 0 spine arrows, assuming they can handle the force?
That way they don't wobble in the air, and presumably fly exactly straight from where you're pointing.
For a 120 longbow what spine should I use
I got draw length of 29.5 what size bow should I take
and arrow
jake, after stopping archery for two years i'm really having a hard time pulling thru the clicker. i'm ready to cut 3/4" off of my arrows. is this a common problem for older archers getting back into the sport?
am i ok shooting a 300 spine arrow with a 125 fixed broadhead?
Hi Jake, I would like to know if there is a specific length at which arrow is spine determined, and how much does arrow spine stiffness change for every inch shortened?
28" is the relevant length standard for tuning purposes. Arrow ASTM static spine deflection is measured by placing a 29" long arrow shaft centered on two fixed support points located 28" apart from each other and suspending an 880 gram weight exactly on the center point of the shaft. The resulting downward deflection of the central point is measured in thousandths of an inch. This number is the static spine of the shaft.
It is important to note that the dynamic spine of the arrow does not simply change in a linear fashion with respect to the length by which the shaft is shortened. Instead, the dynamic spine varies with the reciprocal cube of the shaft length. For example if you cut your finished arrow shaft to a length of 27", then it will behave dynamically equivalent to a 28" shaft that has a static spine (27/28)^3=0.897 times the static spine of the shaft you're using. A 450 static spine shaft cut to 28" will behave almost exactly as stiff dynamically as a 500 static spine shaft cut to 27".
What if there is only a single number, with no "R" next to the recommended size. Does that mean it can be used for both Compound and Recurve or just Compound. For example, for a T5 arrow with a Carbon 1 shaft, only the number 660 is shown.
If that T5 is referred from recurve right side then yes 660 will be your spine for that arrow model. The "R" spine is only applicable for recurve when there are 2 spines numbers.
My draw length is 27 inches.
So how do I find the correct length for my arrows?
Okay. A new archer here. How do I tell what the actual shape of the spine is?
Hello jake.
When the poundage is right on the borderline between 2 different arrow groups, do you recommend weaker arrow or stffer arrow?
when in doubt go stiffer
Hi I just want to ask of what is the estimated arrow length that I need, I'm 6foot tall and I wanted to buy a Blitz Wolf recurve bow 35-45 draw weight specifics. can I use 30" arrows with 500 spine for this ?
Difficult to say, measure your wing-span and divide that by two and you'll be close.
guy at archery shop picked out 350 outlaws for my 60 pound 27 inch arrow with a 125 grain broadhead up front should i have gone to a 300 spine or will that work?
its a compound bow
i didn't see any reference made to the type of arrows ie carbon/wood/aluminium ? a 28" spine weight span is for aluminium shafts whereas for wooden arrows it is 2lb at 26" and not differentiating could leave to some confusion for novice archers
I´ve got a 600 Spine Skylon Paragon and shoot 42 pounds @ 29" arrows with 120gr tips. The spine chart recommends me a 550 spine but even the 600 spine arrow is too stiff (Bareshafts are landing left of the group and im a RH-archer). I use a 18 strang 8125 string but i dunno where i lose this much of kinetic energy. I think my bow is tuned well but i dunno why this arrow is so stiff =P. Any recommendations?
Would be huge help if you have any ideas :-)
If I had to guess, id say some sort for contact on the string as its moving by you. On your chest protector, arm guard, excessive face drag.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery Thank you very much, I will take care of it :-)
all nice and all ... but what point weight is the chart calculated to ? target arrows have usually glue in points, so you will not be changing them, but still some are offered with points ranging from 80 grain to 120 grain ... that's 50% point weight increase ... which affect dynamic spine at the end ...
Easton charts as he mentions a lot are calculated to 100 grain points.
@@SaneAsylum thanks ... I have read the document a few times and did not find the information there ... must be blind ...
@@lubossoltes321 Honestly Easton doesn't at all highlight the fact.
Hi Jake!
I shoot 46lbs Velos and 27" faktor. My arrow length is 31" and according to the chart my bow weight falls in the 48-52 pound category (I have a long draw length). My current draw weight is 51.5lbs
The chart recommends 380 but they are way too much weak for my setup! I am shooting 325s. So is there some issue or some miscalculation?
Would be really glad to hear from you on this... Also I shoot tungsten points
no issue, the chart is a guideline, and varies from archer to archer, depending on their form. point weight, nock inserts, etc. may also change ur dynamic spine, in ur case probably weakening the arrow
Example: If I need arrows with spine 500, and the spine is measured at 28in, how can I be sure to get the 500 spine for 33in?
You're thinking of it wrong.
Look at an arrow chart, pick the weight you're shooting and the arrow length, shoot the spine it tells you.
If you must do it the other way around you have to figure out what "block" or arrow the chart says and then reverse engineer to find out what weight you need to use that arrow. I mention this in this video, be sure to watch it all.
Dude. I have that same scale that you are using. It is only accurate when holding it in the metal ring at the back, not when you are holding around the body of it.
Ive tried both ways many times and have never had an issue, However I have a scale that I use on a draw board now for more accuracy.
Jake, what is the standard span length for measuring spine on a tester ? You said 28 inches but I have heard and read others say that a spine tester uses 26 inches. There seems to be no unity of the faith here.. I'm building my own spine tester and I need to know. For instance does the AMO spine chart use 28 or 26 ? Thanks for you videos.
If I remember right, 26” is trad arrows and 28” are modern arrows.
Not sure why but I think many people who shoot trad have corrected me on this one when I say most arrows are rated at a 28” span.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery Thank you. This makes me curious so when I build my spine tester I plan to make it so I can use both 26 and 28. I'm curious to see how big of a difference a silly 2 inches make in the measurement of any given shaft.
I have another question. It concerns normal hardware store dowels. Starting a few years ago 've started hearing several people say that one can use plain old dowels to make arrows. But this makes me kind of cringe because I have also heard of arrows breaking upon release and skewering the archer's hand. I've always just thought that the reason dowels are not used is because they are too fragile and liable to shatter.
60 years ago my father made his own arrows with Port Orford cedar and never had a problem. He would never even consider using dowels. So my question is this: Is it a bad idea to use hardware store dowels for arrows?
how much it affects thicker string the arrow spine select?
A thicker string is typically higher in strand count or serving thread diameter, or a combination of both, which results in a string having greater mass in the central region. Having more mass in the central region allows the string to capture more energy from the bow upon release, thereby taking away from the energy that is delivered to the arrow. As a result, the arrow feels a lighter push force, and therefore behaves dynamically stiffer than if it were shot with a lighter grain mass string. This isn't necessarily an absolute rule, rather a general rule of thumb. Other factors, such as the length of the center serving, as well as the strand material of the bow string can play a role in determining precisely how much push force the arrow will experience upon release, and by extension how dynamically stiff or soft it behaves.
$400 for a set of arrows? Can you post something for a beginner that is on a budget? For some people they are not going to spend that much on a set up, and then realize they don't like it.. I've been looking through your videos, but I pretty sure that I'm missing something that someone can get started with under $300.... and $300 is at the top end for most people. I really don't mean to sound like a "cheapskate" but I used to build my bows from a small tree if not going to home depot to a PVC bow. I'm on the lower end of income. $300 would mean pop cans saving up and going around the neighborhood collection of bottles and cans.. Any information would be extremely helpful... Thank you so much for all of your information...
Terima kasih😎👍🏹🥇🇲🇾
Can I still use this link to purchase anything off of amazon and still give a percentage?
Yes
@@JakeKaminskiArchery
Thank you for getting back to me.
I have to order something next week and I'll save the link. I appreciate all of the videos that you have made, they have really helped me to learn what to do and how to correct some bad habits I have.
Someone called it a struggle stick and they aren't wrong. It's just so frustrating and so rewarding at the same time.
What if your arrow length is 29 5/8" do you round up to 30" or down to 29"???
Depends on what you want to achieve out of your arrow setup. The important thing to remember is that the chart assumes a 100 grain point will be used in conjunction with the recommended shaft to achieve the perfect tune.
Going with the 29" column entry will give you a shaft with a softer static spine, and generally also a lighter mass in grains per inch. The lighter spine will require either a shorter arrow length or a lighter grain point in order to tune. The lighter gpi of the shaft in conjunction with the lighter point produces a lighter finished arrow weight, resulting in greater speed out of the bow, but also a reduced front-of-center for the arrow.
Going with the 30" column entry will achieve the opposite result; a heavier, slower arrow with a higher front-of-center.
Unfortunately, it's not that simple. I use a 46-48# bow, and arrows about 29 ". X10 450, 100gns are too soft, carbon one 450 is definitely too stiff. The table is the starting point, but you can have a problem with the selection. The speed of the bow should still be taken into account, because 44 # depending on the model, they have a completely different dynamics. Ps. spine is measured at 26 ";)
This is from Easton, "The arrow must be 29” in length and supported by two points, which are 28” apart."
Correct, its 28" not 26, win and win limbs are rated at 26 iirc maybe thats where he got it.
I searched and in fact ATA spine is measured at 28 " or 23" for shorter arrows. Traditional, wooden arrows are measured at 26", hence my mistake :) We're learning something all the time :)
If your bow has a cut out in the riser, why would it be wrong to use very stiff arrows? Why would you need any flexibility in the arrow.
We still deal with archers paradox with fingers releases. Optimal arrow stiffness is still critical for arrow flight optimization. We do use relatively stiffer arrows compared to a long bow/stick bow but still need the arrow to work with us as trad shooters do.
Ah, like doing taxes.
All you really need is a fish scale that works fine to .
Hi Jake, are you of Polish ancestry?
Does using tungsten points make my arrows heavier/stiffer as compared to steel points ? If yes how much?
How heavy a tungsten point is is based on the grain of it (gr). If you had a stainless steel point and a tungsten point of the same weight the only difference would be in weight distribution along the arrow (tungsten tips are a bit shorter I think). I may be wrong though, if I am someone please correct me
Archery is not rocket science ...... oh yes it is ! 😂
need to update your affiliate links
Situation:
Abnormally Short 23~23.5 inch draw.
To help avoid broken arrows, arrow shafts are cut to 25 inches. For penetration, a 75 grain or heavier insert is used, plus a minimum 125 grain arrowhead.
Existing Beaman arrows were rated at 400 spine, at 28 inches. I don't know what the spine is after cutting to 25 inches.
These seem under-spined when shot from a bow that has over 64 pounds draw.
What spine arrow do I need to get, keeping in mind they will be cut down to 25 inch, and a heavy insert (thinking of trying a 300 grain insert) and at least a 125 grain arrowhead will be used. I'm thinking of trying 250 and 300 grain fieldpoints.
Thanks
Hi Jake! I would like to invite you to a friendly archery challange! Barebow Archery Men 40m Outdoor. After you have accepted and show us your shooting and result, I would suggest, that you challange another archer of the world. My result this morning was 621 points on a freezing cold morning. Not my best, but probably not bad. World archery rules. 40 metres, 80 cm target face, 72 arrows. I have already sent you this invitation, but unusually this YT comment doesn't appear. So this is my second.
Of course I have a video of the shooting: ua-cam.com/video/GGxHNwkPyhQ/v-deo.html
after you have accepted? sounds more like a demand than a request to me.
Gee whiz you're good.
I hope this helps 🤔
could you measure mass weight of limbs not draw weight
much zoom, great drama :)
"normal Amazon shopping" lol
Wonder if any Comanche Indians are watching this
Save 12 minutes of blah blah drivel.....read an arrow chart
How absurd