Staying on the outside to try and snipe against a rapier is extremely tough and in my limited experience, usually ends badly for me. If the saber or side sword guy doesn’t parry or overpower the rapier and move in quickly leading to an effective strike, it is a big mismatch. And of course that’s easier said than done with the reach difference too. Fun to experiment for sure!
@@mohamedyusuf4777 part of it was fatigue, not in reaction sense, but form. My sword arm started letting my blade/guard fall below my arm, leaving it open (he kept tagging me there or using it to open me up). My bad knee is also the knee under my sword (and is wrapped under the pants/guard to help stability on day 3 of the tournament) so I was slow on the leg voids too. This wasn't just in this match, I was getting hit there all weekend too. The only clean hit I landed was when I was fencing 3 intentions deep. Definitely an amazing match/experience and I look forward to fencing him again.
I am researching sabers from the Middle East. Mainly, when Turks used rapiers, they held high guard and made diagonal cuts. Looks like it was used. If a right-handed person does it, there are two ways: from the upper right to the lower left, and from the lower left to the upper right. He slashes at them with his rapier, knocks them off, and tries to get in by shifting the tip of his sword. One of the successes（1:28） on the Saber side seems to be intercourse with the method used by this Turk.
Great video! Rob, in the messer portion, if you had the messer and not the rapier, how would you stop the stabbing and lunges? It just looks hopeless for the messer!
During the rapier/messer sparring, his mistake wasn't in the weapon but in the way he tried to stand still and absorb the attacks I was delivering. If you do not increase the distance to counter my closing the distance then it doesn't matter what weapon you have in your hands. Odds are I am going to land the shot. So if the roles were reversed and it was me wielding the messer, every time my opponent made an attack I would parry AND retreat a small step in order to give me the time needed to effectively defend myself.
Thanks for the tip! You are the best! So , hop just out of range to give yourself time to block, and then counterattack. It feels like offensive pressure is also hard to generate with a shorter weapon.. advice?
@@drachimera When going on the offensive it is important you do so while closing the line of your opponent's shortest path attack (the straight line). This is true whether your weapon is shorter than your opponent's or not.
Nice experiment, it is hard to fence with a sabre against a rapier and it must be nearly impossible to confront one with a messer, however weighted scoring may level the odds a bit, a cut with the rapier and a cut with the sabre are not the same thing. Maybe 2 points for a rapier thrust or a sabre cut or thrust and 1 point for a rapier cut?
Certainly a possibility should anyone decide to hold a mixed weapons tournament. I've been on the saber end of this match up and the key from a martial perspective is to close the line of the rapier before closing the distance. Not an easy skill but, once you have it, you quickly see just how valuable it is.
@@DrLeroy76 There is indeed. While I have a number of videos that cover different techniques and tactics for closing the line as you close the distance, two such videos that discuss this are my videos on the "Two Target Concept" and also the lockdown. I have not done a video that consolidates all of them but that would be difficult considering all of the possibilities.
Could work. I have spar alot using sidesword and dagger against a rapier that has 20cm longer blade length. The dagger helped sooo much because it double your line of defense, and you can control the rapier safely without it disengaging and shanking you in the stomach.
I would recommend for further experimentation to pair the messer with a buckler ( this should alleviate some of the disadvantages for the messer user). Also it would be interesting to see sidesword/ rapier and buckler vs rapier and dagger.
Staying on the outside to try and snipe against a rapier is extremely tough and in my limited experience, usually ends badly for me. If the saber or side sword guy doesn’t parry or overpower the rapier and move in quickly leading to an effective strike, it is a big mismatch. And of course that’s easier said than done with the reach difference too. Fun to experiment for sure!
Hey it me!
From your perspective why do you think you were getting hit?
@@mohamedyusuf4777 part of it was fatigue, not in reaction sense, but form.
My sword arm started letting my blade/guard fall below my arm, leaving it open (he kept tagging me there or using it to open me up).
My bad knee is also the knee under my sword (and is wrapped under the pants/guard to help stability on day 3 of the tournament) so I was slow on the leg voids too. This wasn't just in this match, I was getting hit there all weekend too.
The only clean hit I landed was when I was fencing 3 intentions deep. Definitely an amazing match/experience and I look forward to fencing him again.
@@TheSinisterSwordsman What system are you working from and more interestingly what was your game plan for the fight with your system?
Nice.
I really like mixed weapon sparring. It can do a good job of highlighting the strengths and weaknesses of a weapon.
It can certainly highlight advantages of one over another, but I think even more so it can show a swordsman where their skills are weakest.
I enjoy the experiment of Sidesword Vs Rapier, it almost always end bad for me until I finally get the measure right lol
I am researching sabers from the Middle East.
Mainly, when Turks used rapiers, they held high guard and made diagonal cuts.
Looks like it was used. If a right-handed person does it, there are two ways: from the upper right to the lower left, and from the lower left to the upper right.
He slashes at them with his rapier, knocks them off, and tries to get in by shifting the tip of his sword.
One of the successes（1:28） on the Saber side seems to be intercourse with the method used by this Turk.
Great video! Rob, in the messer portion, if you had the messer and not the rapier, how would you stop the stabbing and lunges? It just looks hopeless for the messer!
During the rapier/messer sparring, his mistake wasn't in the weapon but in the way he tried to stand still and absorb the attacks I was delivering. If you do not increase the distance to counter my closing the distance then it doesn't matter what weapon you have in your hands. Odds are I am going to land the shot. So if the roles were reversed and it was me wielding the messer, every time my opponent made an attack I would parry AND retreat a small step in order to give me the time needed to effectively defend myself.
Thanks for the tip! You are the best! So , hop just out of range to give yourself time to block, and then counterattack. It feels like offensive pressure is also hard to generate with a shorter weapon.. advice?
@@drachimera When going on the offensive it is important you do so while closing the line of your opponent's shortest path attack (the straight line). This is true whether your weapon is shorter than your opponent's or not.
Nice experiment, it is hard to fence with a sabre against a rapier and it must be nearly impossible to confront one with a messer, however weighted scoring may level the odds a bit, a cut with the rapier and a cut with the sabre are not the same thing. Maybe 2 points for a rapier thrust or a sabre cut or thrust and 1 point for a rapier cut?
That's an interesting point, I might play around with that.
Certainly a possibility should anyone decide to hold a mixed weapons tournament. I've been on the saber end of this match up and the key from a martial perspective is to close the line of the rapier before closing the distance. Not an easy skill but, once you have it, you quickly see just how valuable it is.
@@RobertChildsRapier is there a video on this skill (closing the line before closing distance)?
@@DrLeroy76 There is indeed. While I have a number of videos that cover different techniques and tactics for closing the line as you close the distance, two such videos that discuss this are my videos on the "Two Target Concept" and also the lockdown. I have not done a video that consolidates all of them but that would be difficult considering all of the possibilities.
Interestingly, the first UA-cam video I’ve seen of a messer fencer closing the line against a rapier was on your opponent’s channel.
Maybe a parry dagger could make a difference for the Saber user.
Just an idea from a person who never held a sword in his hand.
Could work. I have spar alot using sidesword and dagger against a rapier that has 20cm longer blade length. The dagger helped sooo much because it double your line of defense, and you can control the rapier safely without it disengaging and shanking you in the stomach.
I would recommend for further experimentation to pair the messer with a buckler ( this should alleviate some of the disadvantages for the messer user). Also it would be interesting to see sidesword/ rapier and buckler vs rapier and dagger.
This looked so one sided I wonder if the sabre/messer guy could have done anything to even the odds
CLose the distance is always the answer, but it's always easier said than done, especially when the rapier user is Robs
He has a UA-cam channel called SticksStonesandSteel where he does very well with a messer against a rapier.