Are niche supports BAD for Genshin Impact?
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- Опубліковано 17 січ 2024
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we need a BURNING NICHE SUPPORT!!!!!! anyways join my disc lets get goofy together; discord.gg/KdXMjeGuq5
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Really hoping Emilie brings this
Emilie is coming…
niche supports are actually a good idea for helping with contested support characters like bennett.
however i get nervous if they have things like Gorou level restrictions or Faruzan and Sara where they can feel like they are unplayable without that certain constellation.
Chevreuse is the example of a good niche support like at c0 she is good at her job and not clunky and even if she is better with cons but at least she's still good at c0.
edit: idk if Yunjin also fits in the category of chevy cause she feels somewhat alot more stat heavy compared to Chev. and tbh mika kinda has gotten better with furina.
i did mention the mika-furina synergy, but he did fail as a NICHE support meaning to help Physical (eula)
chev is the best niche support accesability-wise. still enables Overload as viable at C0, while being a great Raiden Hyper upgrade at C6! power-wise, Faruzan is the most valuable imo, but being so in-accessible really hurts her.
at least Sara is usable at C2 & Gorou can still act as a 'bennett-replacement' in the way yun-jin does for yoimiya
@@Juice-chan respectable. though even if niche supports are a good idea, i still think i somewhat prefer general supports though as long they are not bennett or XQ levels of broken.
I want a character that specifically buff charge attack. It would be great for HuTao, Itto, Yanfei, Keqing, Neuvillette and maybe Noelle
How about 1 character that buffs both normal and charge attacks with same skill but by different amount, so character isn't dead for people that don't play charge attackers, yet would like the character?
Why would you want to make overly niche support to the point that said support is worthless everywhere outside their hyper niche teams?
It only inflate the pool making getting said specific niche characters worse and worse way faster than it needs to be.
Layla can buff normal and charged attacks but it is dependent on her having her c4.
I want one as well but characters like Hu Tao and Neuv make it hard to balance
yeah fair take! would be interesting
@@kamicokrolockthat buff isnt huge as u think so its not worthy
I've gotta say, you're one of my favorite Genshin content creators not just because of content value but how damn entertaining you are. I laugh more in your Genshin videos than with any other creator. Keep it up!
love to hear it man, thank you!!! will do!
I think with the exception of Shenhe who is a 5-star too many of the 4-star niche buffers require C6 to be significantly effective. With Chevreuse I hope Hoyo is reversing the trend they started back in 2.4, because she is quite effective at C0 and things only get better with more constellations. With some of the other 4-star niche buffers I didn't even bother building them until C6.
that's a fair take man! i hope for more like shenhe & chevreuse as well
I think in theory they are good for Genshin. In practice, they aren't well implemented. Many issues:
1) Genshin has OP non-niche supports. Which means the niche supports are not replacements for those. They aren't even better than them, typically. Shenhe, for example, is the 4th character you add to an Ayaka team. There is the exception that is Faruzan, but that's primarily due to the nature of the anemo DPSs.
2) Most of them aren't good at c0. Chev is, but she's the exception. With the pain of getting a four star to C6, this is not good.
3) Most of them are tied to certain 5 star character's banners. This makes it painful to get them. They don't come around as often, and you wind up having to pull on ones you don't want. This would be less of an issue if #2 wasn't the case, but it is.
4) Then there's Gorou. He's overly niche. If he'd been just a def buffer, he'd be fine. If he'd been just geo, he'd be fine. If he didn't require 3 geos on the team, he'd be fine. But he's a def+geo buffer that wants 3 geos on the team. And this is very bad for the geo design space, as can be seen thanks to the latest OP general buffer we have in the game and her impact on Itto.
5) There's the risk that the five star is then seen as needing the niche support to be competitive. Again, this is seen with both Faruzan and Gorou's impact on their respective anemo and geo DPS. And this is bad, due to #2 and #3.
So due to that, we have issues with most of the niche supports. Shenhe is the 4th slot, and outdone by general supports for cryo. Before her C6, she could just be a four star. Faruzan wants C6. Gorou is overly niche. Sara wants C2 and is clunky. Yun Jin is a niche support that is generally inferior to a general support (hiya, Benny!) even for characters in her niche, but doesn't synergize with Benny as, say, Chevy does, which means she loses out to him for the team spot. Mika was designed by someone with no clue what physical actually needs. The only well designed one is Chev, and she still suffers a bit from an OP general support existing, being almost always used with Benny.
Basically, way back when, Hoyoverse should just have nerfed Bennett. He's been warping the design space pretty much since launch, and they should addressed that the moment the problem became apparent. They didn't, and this has put supports, and other things really, in a weird spot ever since. Supports are, in general, too powerful.
I wouldn't mind these niche characters if there were ways to actually guarantee them
the 5 stars like Cloud Retainer and Shenhe can be guaranteed and are completely functional at C0
but i can't even guarantee myself a Jean (wich Cloud Retainer fixed)
but the 4 stars who need C6 like Faruzan? 💀
i used 90 wishes to get Farucons once ... GOT *ONE* 90 wishes *one* fracking Faruzan ... 😐 it's not fun
you can't realistically save for her or hope you will get C6 on the short spawn of forever because the more time it passes newer units will keep coming making it even harder to even go for the cope option and try to fish them by chance overtime
absolutely this is something i mention, a critical flaw of niche supports is when they totally fail accessability. they should at least be a suitable replacement for bennett at C0 (like gorou)
chevreuse did things best imo; good at C0, enables a horrible reaction to be decent/good, & at C6 is a big upgrade to raiden hyper!
I knew from the very Gorou release the DEF buffer is not a good idea. If they wanted to revive Geo DPS characters who are scaling of DEF they should then keep adding them more, but they just forgot. Plus all the DPS characters like Noelle and Itto just use their DEF to actually boost atk and DEF buffs are needed for Yunjin or Albedo only. They shoul've made Gorou buffing atk but slightly more than DEF just like Sara provides somewhere near 700 atk that would be much better and he would be much more useful in Navia teams or just for making crystals, buffing non-geo character ATK even at C0, but they decided to get some money from a really niche support who will get his rerun only once a year (388 days since Gorou had a rerun) and to earn almost nothing from this.
they made Gorou not doing almost any damage with the fact that his contrubution as a buffer to the team is the same as Faruzan or Sara. But with time and new characters like Furina with her insane buffs even niche supports can be replaced. That's so said seeing their pickrate drop. While Faruzan revived Xiao and was added to the game with Scara, Gorou just was meant to buff 2,5 characters lol.
Eh, he buffs exactly 3 Geo characters now
@@salceds still useless, because Chiori is just a replacement for Albedo in Mono Geo i don't know why they keep adding so niche characters, like we do need Yunjin or Plunge attacks buffer ( still waiting for charged attacks buffer) But Chiori is just so niche for no reason. She could be a crystalyze buffer, that's a simple mechanic everyone thought about except Hoyo i think
@@rinoku16 She's actually not that niche considering you just pair her with another Geo member in general. Sub-DPS units are literally like, the least niche archetype ever.
Hell, she's the opposite of niche, she's not unique at all.
Hi so pls don’t take this in a negative way I’m just confused. Why does a 5* NEED to be bis in at least one situation? B/c Yoimiya does less dmg than Hu Tao so does that inherently make Yoimiya bad? B/c thats just power creep. Just b/c one character is better than another that doesn’t mean the power creeped character is bad. Also let’s say there’s a character that does a lot of things pretty well wouldn’t that merit higher pull value b/c the character would do a lot of things.And you could spend those primos on other characters instead of worrying about getting characters that fulfill roles that multifaceted character can do well. So pls explain to me, I’m quite perplexed. Love ya Juice ❤.
...yoimiya is one of the worst 5*s in the game with absolutely no pull value...
a 5* needs to be BIS at one thing because they have to fulfil their purpose as best as they can to justify their price. if a unit is beaten in absolutely everything by absolutely everyone, there is 0 point in obtaining them; hope this clears things up! thank you for watching
@@Juice-chan Which is wrong. A five star just needs to be close enough in the right areas, because there is a lot of subjective value to characters. Lots of people don't like charged attack characters. So even if Ganyu was more powerful than Ayaka, it wouldn't matter. Ayaka would have value to plenty of people. Furthermore, DPS characters are the most common ones. Because they're the ones who tend to dictate how the team plays, as well as the ones who are on-field, allowing you to see what they do. But we really don't need many DPS characters. You don't need a single cryo DPS (plus it is the second worst element). So by your logic, that means we need constant power creep, with every single DPS, because most of them don't have a point.
Characters that are strong enough but appeal to different players are a good thing. And they are a win-win for the players. It allows for characters that cater better to what you like, which is good. And, unless you're a giga-whale, you need to skip characters anyway, so having others that don't appeal to you is also a good thing. So, sure, Yoimiya could use some improvements in her kit. But despite that, she's overall fine. And sure, characters with high power value will get pulled more than the niche appeal ones. That's to be expected, because they have broader appeal. But almost everyone has the character or two they play because they like the kit/personality/whatever, and the character is good enough. And this is good, because constant power creep would suck.
Of course, supports have it worse, overall, since they don't impact how the team plays as much, and, well, are there to support the DPS, the typical on-fielder. So for them, numbers tend to matter more, because people pull them heavily for their impact on another character, rather than for the character themselves. This is why, for example, people who really like a support will turn them into an on-fielder, even though that is a sub-optimal use of the character.
The best definition of balanced I've heard is this: a compelling reason to use every class/character for a large enough segment of the player-base. Note that this definition doesn't state that the numbers need to be HUGE. Just that enough people find the character worth using, for whatever reason that may be. And it doesn't state that 90% of the population has to use it. A character can be there just because it makes 10% of the player base happy.
while getting yoimiya and raiden i got c6 sara ,but i dont really want to build her so she is stuck at lv 20. meanwhile i want faruzan cons for my wanderer yet she is stuck at c0. i dont know why they made faruzan the most con locked she is the only niche i even use. regardless i do appreciate thier inclusion in the game as it at least brings in diversity which i think is always a good thing.
Am I stupid or missing something or is 4:50 roughly the same total team damage? Kazuha and Shenhe's Damage together is 50k lower than Rosaria's and Kazuha's. But Ayaka ends up making up for it with 50k more.
Adding all the numbers together it comes out to 4k more damage from Shenhe team
Chart doesn’t seem accurate. Shenhe should be adding way more than 50k to ayaka’s overall damage. Especially if you use shenhe skill at beginning and end of rotation for ayaka burst. 50k only boost the shenhe is prolly low atk running an er sands with favonious. The potential damage boost gets much higher if you run triple atk% artifact pieces with higher attack weapon. Then solve Shenhe’s er issue with a lot of Er substats and favonious on other characters. Even with only 50k it should be at minimum 100k if you use shenhe skill twice for a full rotation. My shenhe with one skill use /kazuha is giving 100k extra damage to my Ayaka charge attack plus one normal attack.
I don’t really like most niche supports because of needing c6 curse. I understand the power 5 are c6 as well when they’re talked about for their versatility, but even with c6 the scope is very narrow for niche units. I play a lot of electric teams but I barely use my c6 sara because I don’t play hyper raiden c0 raiden that much. I was an early yunjin believer (still don’t have c6) and she was one of the first units I brought up to level 90 to maximize her buff to normal attackers. Sadly, in abyss content, she falls flat and her energy requirements are relatively high as a sole geo unit in a team.
If chev becomes the new standard for niche units though I will be very happy seeing as she seems to work well at c0.
As a Geo (and specifically Noelle) main most of my playstyle is enabled by niche supports, so they certainly have their place and can be great in their specialization. It's when you try to slot them into teams outside their niche where compromises start popping up, and the degree can very depending on how specialized the character's kit is or not.
a very good take, thank you for your comment!
Great video! I love the funny clips. Good job on animating them.
Niche supports are fine for the game if they're powerful enough to replace strong units like Kazuha, Bennet, Xiangling even. Because you need two teams in the Abyss this allows these strong units to be use on the second which is a good thing. Ideally they should be usable at c0.
Chevreuse is a great example for this. She is completely usable at c0 and enables overload teams more with pure electro and Pyro units in a team. Ofc she gets better with cons and at c6, you can forgo one of your Pyro or electro unit for a different element. The only thing you'll miss out is the shred.
4:50 hol up
I love how you use these cool memes, it's very catchy lol. I sometimes search for the memes after looking your videos 😅😅
No direspect but I have never heard anyone complaining about Bennet, I only hear people complaining about how useless some of this newer 4-star characters have become without being a gigantic whale! Because they shit without constelations, and mind you some 4-stars can be harder to get than 5-stars, and factoring that you need 6 copies of them to actually do something I can see why newer, low spending and f2p players complain. I believe this is less valid for veteran players and hyper dedicated player that play like 1 character and get an orgasm for a 3% dmg increment for their Xiao or Wanderer and are open to spend a fortune for a C6 Faruzan, but those are a minority.I believe that some recent 4-stars character are just there to fill, providing nothing new to the table like Lynette for example, but hey surprise she becomes a hypercarry at C6! This is specially troublesome since I believe word exploration and characters are Genshing strongest points, so degrading 4-stars to such low standards affects the game as a whole a lot.
With the caveat I have a small roster, I backed into C2 Dehya pulling on the last two banners, and I really enjoy playing her as support. The interrupt resistance and tanking is fine. She can also fit on a Chevy team, but I wouldn’t play Dehya as dps.
Well put, Juice! And hilarious as always. BTW, I got Chevreuse at c6 now but still waiting on C2 Raiden. I can smell the rain in the air though; she's on her way.
:D thank you man! congrats on your C6 chev! once you get that C2 raiden, you'll be doing NUTS DMG!
I don't maind niche supps, or even niche dps, I just search for some character that i like the design or gamplay, and try to upgrade him/her into his/her max potential. Just like i did with Yoimiya in her first banner, Klee on her second banner, Albedo on his first banner, etc.
The fact that I pulled Shenhe even i don't like the current existing cryo dps, just cuz i love her desing XD.
I don't use her cuz i don't have cryo dps, but i hope someday hoyo releases a cryo unit that catches my eye, and can be paired with Shenhe! ☺
the thing is, c0 bennett or c0 chevreuse already give you a noticeable, considerable improvement. meanwhile these other niche supports are locked behind c6 (kujou sara, faruzan, gorou, yun yin, etc). that's why benny is so universal and praised.
i'm not saying bennett is bad, i'm saying niche supports make it so you don't always HAVE to use bennett. most casuals will complain about bennett being the only good support which is just... not true
@@Juice-chanme neither, i'm not trying to contradict you or anything, just add my opinion on why a general support is still better than niche ones. if mihoyo designed them to shine at c2 or heck, even c3 they would be waaayyyy more usable. c6 4 star characters are sometimes even harder to get than c0 5 stars, at least the later have pity and guaranteed mechanics.
Meh, I started playing last spring, and got Sara pretty early. I now have her at c2, but since I pulled Qiqi instead of Raiden, I've gotten more use out of Amber than I have Sara. I like Cheveause, though, I haven't built her, but I'm looking forward to it. .
Thank you for this amazing video
well there are two types of niche supports, hyper carry tailored and element/damage type/reaction buffing ones. the second brunch is fine they are maybe niche but the have varaity in team comps and still have potential to apear in the future. While the first one have THE hypercarry team, and thats mostly it. yes you can use gorou to buff noele, and yes you can buff keqing with sara, but thats it. they dont have many chances to apear even in one more team in the future, exept if hoyoverse decides to randomly add another anemo hyper carry, another def scaling geo hyper carry, or electro ult stance character with snapshot. that not taking into consideration that the first brunch is meh, without high constalation. so TLDR mostly niche suports are fine, but sara, gorou and faruzan is not healthy for the game because they dont have team variety, require a ton of primo investments into them and carry they are made for, and for all that you get single team comp that don't suck
This Is The First Vid Ive Seen From You And Really Liked It
(You Kinda Sound Like The UA-camr Dr Wily)
:D happy to hear! & interesting
Great video, i really wnjoy your work, and completely agree with yout point, niche supports give people the opportunity to play the characters they like more efficiently! Btw, love the memes, they make me make me... w e t t t t
:D
Hoyo should add Faruzan to Xiao's banner as well. Or heck, update Paimon's bargains and add the new four stars!
Paimon's Bargains should just have a general constellation token that works on any four star that has been out for 3-6 months.
if there is no faru on xiao banner im going to lament myself all over the pavement
agree
Hehehh i think I'm the first this time!! Congrats for your amazing and gorgeous content! Signing out Partner
YOUR PFP IS WAY TOO CUTE!!! VENTI MY SWEETIE BELOVED PRECIOUS--- ahem...
thank you for watching & showing up so early good buddy!
Don't need to mention it 👍👍 and yeah Venti is the Cutest character in game!!
....Cries in c3 Faruzan 😭
NOOO YOU'RE HALFWAY AT LEAST!
Exactly how I feel. You agree with me so I enjoyed the video lol.
awesome man, glad you enjoyed ty for watching!
niche is bad because the possibility of the characters you like being unplayable on your account is somewhat high because you don't have the extremely specific character it's made for because you simply don't like it, my latest pulls are Dehya, Furina, Navia, Xiayun and Chiori and I know that I will never play with 3 of those characters and I will leave the other aside when this month ends, I may not care because the game is very stagnant and I already overcome it blindfolded, but this is a gacha, people play them for the characters, making characters that are literally undesirable is just stupid business on the part of hoyoverse.
I was one of the fortunate souls to get c6 Faruzan before C2 wanderer
Now my Xiao is still thriving especially with the added addition of Furina and soon *cough* yeah that bird lady
can't wait for this to happen
Ask me but in my book what makes a good support is “does this new Unit free up bennet/kazuha. Up for a better team so i dont have to use thier op buff to be acceptable useable.” Feel furina yunjin and Chevy and shenhe are these types of characters. Shenhe made it so ganyu and ayaka were no longer forced to use bennett to keep up with raiden and hu tao. Furina x Jean is sutch a free power boost Jean boderline became a secondary pech character so you no longer were forced to use kazu ect ect
furina isn't a niche support imo, i wouldn't bring her up here (but she does assist your point of not needing bennett specifically)
ayaka has NEVER had to use bennett, ganyu only for Melt
your point overall is correct, though!
NAH i want even more Niche supports that do crazier things, like one that makes melee characters and only melee characters automatically teleport to the nearest target when attacking.
Honestly I'm all for a support that greatly buffs certain few characters but having them as 5 stars or having half their kits locked behind constellations makes it painful
5 stars are pretty good since then you have cons/a sig to build upon the buffs; also many niche supports are still usable at-minimum at C0. only faruzan isn't (& sara but she's usable at C2)
People say Chevreuse is useuable at C0, this is a lie.
Chevreuse either needs c4 or c6 to be mostly useable.
The extra res shred is quite phenomenal especially since you can only slot in chevreuse is all of your team mates or both electro and pyro. She's literally the nilou of overloaded.
You are losing the extra buff points if you remove one pyro/electro unit.
She's not just niche but heavily cons gated if you want to be optimal and deal big dmg.
On the topic of niche units, tl;dr is that they are mostly bad.
A certain fat bearded genshin creator once said, if you the unit is only restricted to a certain team/playstyle they become instantly bad and terrible. Because it limits freedom in teambuilding. (you know who i am talking about)
4:53 Am I blind or do these have like almost the same amount of damage?
Now we just need them to fix pysical characters ( dont mean buffs but rather the way enemies work when put up agaist them) to much resists and not that many options that are as you said "tailor made " for it dps or suports we need some navia lvls of thinking to do this i just hope... i Cant be the only one that cares about a rework or at least update to this characters or am i XD
And then there are the people who pick a different cryo unit to buff with Shenhe
:( still not at c6 Faruzan owner. I want her to bring my Wonderer teams up to relevance. He's the only limited five star DPS) on my account that is too much to make work in the abyss. Well other than Eula but atleast she has good screen shot capabilities. Even Juices most hated on character Ayato has homes. I regularly play him in Nilou Bloom and Mono Hydro (the two teams i believe hes a better fit than Nuev).
Well Kokomi is bis for mono hydro (Kokomi, Yelan, Furina, Kazuha) and Nilou Bloom.
The issue with Ayato is not only Neuvillette, but Kokomi and Childe too, maybe even Furina for AOE off field hydro support.
@@Camelia437 Furina and Kokomi are joined at the hip to Navia and or my freeze teams. Ayato, Yelan, Xq and VV anemo unit are what I run for mono hydro. I just prefer the Nahida, Niliou, Ayato and Yao Yao team. Don't have to play circle impact. Not having to stay within jelly fish range and getting interruption resistance is much more valuable in the current aggressive and very mobile abyss's we've had of late. Nuev and Kokomi might be the best at their Niche. Each have significant draw backs.
@@magiclover9346 At the end of the day, you can just play who you want.
In the overworld, I like testing news things and most of the time this is good enough.
I only care about teams building for floor 11-12. Sometimes I just like testing fun teams in abyss to see if they are good enough or not.
@@Camelia437 exactly no unit has 0 pull value. I dont agree with evaluating a character as bad because another out performs them in a niche especially if the evaluated character adds more to their teams than the niche you're evaluating them on. Early you want flexibility late you want niche. If you're evaluating purely for speed runs then that's a sound argument and in that case you need to re evaluate other characters that are also not great for the speed running community.
Juice making this video now before the livestream thats gonna reveal that Xianyun is gonna be a plunge niche and people are gonna doompost so hard about this i see what you did there
we don't know her kit yet
you will see @@Juice-chan
I would love a 5 star gorou or faruzan, it will cost way less gems than c6 them...
finally someone acknowledges how much cheaper a 5* niche support is
Fun fact: both of my Faruzan and Gorou is still C5 since last year
It's an expression of Genshin pain
I just wanted Cloud Retainer not be niche because she is important in the story.
I don't think she will be bad because of it, but I wanted something else.
yeah same, I was hyped to get her for years and turns out she's...barely better than Sayu outside a micro-niche for 1 character, thanks Mihoyo very cool
well, this comment aged like milk---
@@----x----- I will build pity on her banners and maybe if I get her it will be cool but I can't insist.
The issue is I have Jean now and even if Cloud Retainer is better for exploration, I don't have/use the right characters.
My characters just doesn't want to plunge.
Maybe in the future, I will get a characters who want to plunge. Gaming look cool but he need C6 to be a great dps.
Yes, it is a shame that they send a long-awaited character to the trash can of niche characters never played
I think they are cool when they are a 5 *and perfect at c0 but they suck if they are 4* because at worst they do not work at all pre-c6 and at best they are barely mid but still pointless
if I'm already a fan of a niche type I'd gladly invest in a 5* but going c6 on a 4* is up to the whims of RNG and you might have to waste pity on several 5's you dont care about to get them
also in the case of old characters in the game with existing hype and people looking forward to them for years those shouldn't end up terrible and stuck to a micro-niche, it's just not fair to fans
Wrio, shenhe, sunfire Jean. And then shenhe loves melting as well and wrio never looses na buff
Honestly, it all boils down to the Paimon shop being god awful because t doesn't include rate up 4*s. Coming from a c6 Faruzan haver since 3.6
this is a contributing factor too, true, but then starter cons would be even MORE in-accessible
Problem with niche supports is that in genshin they are overly niche which makes them lose value like they're falling off a cliff if you can't field strong team for their niche.
Niche support like Mika is so niche even within phys dps which is both niche and outdated, that he has literally nothing to offer to anyone that's not Eula, and even Eula doesn't want him as her first option. It leaves him in the spot where only people that field him are ones who don't care that he's not doing anything.
Faruzan is in the similar spot to Mika, except Anemo has 2 options for Faruzan to hyper buff.
Sara is in the same boat as Mika, Raiden/Yae mega carry comps or value off the cliff.
Don't get me wrong, seeing Raiden bust out 2.7mil initial slash due to Sara's C6 makes me a little bit wet too. However it's not a good spot for the characters and game to move towards. Because, that's how other gachas end up with 300+ characters, where every 5 star/SSR/Crystal character has their own specially designed niche supports that are impossible to get due to sheer number of supports, let alone getting their required ascensions/cons/limit breaks/ etc.
Ideal support design imo in genshin currently is Shenhe.
She can be a buffer to multiple different teams, she can be good enough Main cryo dps with Rosaria sub to 36*, her buffs have consistent value due to being based on her E stacks, not on the amount of targets you can hit like Jun'jin. Hoyo shouldn't go broader than Shenhe, since it would overly dilute what that support is buffing. However getting close to Faruzan's, Sara's and Mika's level of niche is too far imo.
Genshin can make 6 more Shenhe's for 6 other elements with slight element based variations if they wanted to.
you just need 2 hyper bloom team for any abbys in this game
why would we need anymore character when there no end game to use them ?
that the real question
i mean... not quite...? it depends, alhaitham quickbloom sure, but there's better teams to play now
your videos are kinda real
awesome sauce
I added the damage from those charts between Rosaria and Shenhe... It wasn't that big of a difference.
Chart not accurate, shenhe should be adding way more than 50k to Ayaka’s overall damage if you use shenhe skill at beginning and end of rotation for Ayaka burst. Mine Ayaka gets 100k boost in damage from just a charge attack buffed by Kazuha/ shenhe.
My problem wit niche suports is that most of them NEED Constelation to work and thats boring , cheveruse working in the niche even at C0 is really good and actually encouraged me to play overload comps, so my point is niche suports are good for the game only if they work at C0
The only one who apply in that situation is Faruzan, but at last in her C6 she is pretty good Sub Dps and a good applier of Viridian set, she is for me one of the most OP 4 stars c6. But yeah, is pretty boring only working with c6, i got wanderer in only 10 pull which i didnt expect to get him, but as i didnt have many pulls only got her c0, i had to save up 70~ only to get her c6 on next wanderer banner.
most niche supports DO work at C0, faruzan & sara are the only ones that don't, but sara is more forgivable since she only needs C2 to be functional & raiden has very good cons so its not too bad to pull for more Saras
but if you're an Anemo main or want Faruzan but don't want Wanderer/freaking Kokomi cons...? then yeah, you're a lil bit done for
@@Juice-chan i do think Faruzan is better then Kujou Sara as there is no one who would make THAT much a diffence even C6, Raiden herself, her best team inst even with her. Maybe Yae miko? But Faruzan at C6 Works with everyone as a sub dps, VV set sup and Crowd Control.
Nahida or raiden
My other 5 stars are Neuvillette, furina, navia, wriothesley,baizhu
huh those two aren't niche
Still waiting for XIAO guide.
trust me, it WILL BE COMING!
I wish these "niche" supports are made into specialized supports instead. Meaning they're used on specific team/play style while being stronger on that niche compared to universal supports
C6 Faruzan and C6 Cheveruse and C0 Shenhe are a bit stronger than the universal support in terms of buffing, but not on a huge margin.
NIche is bad compared with other units that add more to the team. It's the opportunity cost of wishing for the character that does not add as much to multiple teams.
interesting, but if one unit is so highly demanded, niche fellas free that up
I agree that Niche Supports are good for the game but if only they are 4 stars being a 5 star Niche Support is sucks and don't justify the amount of grinding for that unite, bing 5 star Niche is not worth it tbh even if they make that one team way stronger
5* niche supports are literally more accessible than C6 faruzan my guy
also, imagine if C6 faruzan was a C0 5*. then you'd have cons/wepaons to build upon that...
respectfully, i disagree very much, i hold the opposite take; i'd rather more 5*s less 4*s
Niche Supports are amazing for whales since they can do whatever build with whatever character they want.
F2P have to be picky about the characters they really want otherwise they can't make "good" team comps.
being F2P does not mean being a new player with 0 5*s. just a reminder
I have c6 Faruzan and she is the only 4 star i levelled to lvl 90 that’s not part of the OG 4 (Bennett Xiangling, Sucrose, XQ)
And yes im a Xiao main
:D goated xiao enjoyer!
When i see niche support - i see crutches. Crutches to fix issues in the kit of already existing or future character. I see it like one complete kit divided in two for the sake of selling more characters. I see it as negative.
That’s the reality of a game that doesn’t have any balance patches or reworks. Due to the structure and laws around gacha games they’re forced to either do this or let units who underperform on release get completely phased out. It’s extremely hard to balance around that to begin with but it’s even more difficult to future proof units
@@treysmith9371 Yep. Agree.
My issue is: why do all the female characters need to be the ones who are niche supports? As a matter of fact, why are most supports these days….female characters? Tf?
because genshin is a waifu game, y'know furina is the best character in the game, right
@@Juice-chan You’re missing the point. Other than Navia, who was the last on field dps 5 star female? And no, Nilou and Dehya are not on field dps.
who cares?? there is no dpsing without using supports. Supports last forever and are far more important to build.
@@mangshu21 Imagine wanting every 5 star female to be a support and every 5 star male to be a on field dps, yikes. Good thing Navia, Arle, and Clorinde exist to make you weirdos seethe..
@@ultimachain8677😭 I'm ngl your the weirdo her man
Short answer, no.
This game has a roster of 75 that grows by 17 units a year. There is no reality where every support unit has universal coverage or even mostly universal coverage over every element and playstyle. For the longest time nearly every character’s peak damage potential was tied to Kazuha or Bennett. At least this way teams are diversified. We also don’t know what the future holds for character releases. A future region could have a playstyle centered around something like plunge attacks
teams are diverse & more specialised which is what i like about em for sure!
like the video guys
If there are no niche characters, it would be very boring to play the meta characters over and over again. Niche characters provide a different playstyle then what you used to play as. I know some really like playing the same team consisting of Neuvi, Raiden, Zhongli, etc. But for me I like trying new teams with characters that wouldn't work normally in other teams. It makes you actually think what characters would be good with Mika as a support, for example.
yes exactly, it invites new ways of thinking! writing off characters because they can't do everything is just kinda. dumb
@@Juice-chan EXACTLY! I also really liked your video, keep up the great job!
Niche supports are bad because the resources in this game are extremely limited so you want as few characters as possible to do as many roles and things as possible. They are also bad because the game is easy and even using buffs in the first place is unnecessary outside F12. Most of the time, using a subDPS provides comparable extra damage as the niche supports, often even better at lower invstment.
By limited resources I mean both resin/grind time, and gacha pulls but honestly the former might be the greater problem.
Niche supports are also bad for players who prefers to build their teams on character appearance. Oh, you only play male characters? Well too bad, your Xiao is still weak because you're not using Faruzan. You prefer females? Well too bad, your Faruzan is useless because she can only buff male units.
Finally they are also bad because they are more vulnerable to powercreep. Like look at Kujou Sara, she is barely if any better even on Raiden teams compared to other options. But if you don't play her there, you won't play her anywhere.
i heard sara got powercrept with raiden double hydro being her new best team.
Every post 1.0 Anemo waifu = Xiao support
real tired of using bennett and sucrose everywhere and playing circle impact
circle impact is so restrictive for some units as well! which is why yun-jin is so nice for yoi even if she isn't a strict inc, for instance
Hey hey
hi!
Long story short, yes, niche are bad. I pulled for Shen he, and never regretted anything more. Rosaria already does that job at a fraction of the cost. 5 star characters are too expensive, both for F2P and P2W players, to have them useful for only a niche.
I mean, hooray for gameplay variety, since if the devs didn't attempt to do so, Genshin would get stale quite quickly.
yep, n not every new unit can keep using the tried & true bennett-kazuha combo like before
Niche supports are fine. It’s more about how they are implemented. Con locking the functionality of characters is unnecessary. Examples like Juice provided and Dehya too.
She was marketed as a Tank but she gets no bonuses for taking Dmg that is naturally built into her kit. No Vorukasha, No Furina? You’re screwed.
That’s the problem with niche units…they’re terrible without their other pieces. Universal units can limit choice in some regards but toning them down is at least doable.
Niche supports are all or nothing. That’s how niches work.
Are niche supports bad? When they’re bad, they are reaallly bad but No. Having a niche isn’t inherently bad.
It’s weird.
Saying wanderer is not a good unit without Faruzan while Xiao is good with her is definitely the worst take i heard since the game released. Wanderer dogs on Xiao in every scenario especially Aoe. This is coming from someone with a top 3% xiao and 1% wanderer
i have a top 2% xiao & my theorycrafter bud has a top wanderer with C2... he calced wanderer to be one of the weaker hypercarries in this game lmao
xiao > scara AOE, don't know where this take comes from man, prove it otherwise i don't believe it (with a source other than g-optimiser, actual gameplay or sheets)
No
Niche supports are a good thing overall to have cuz it can give units unique identities for certain jobs that other global supportive units can
However they must be strong on that niche in order to have any value whatsoever, they must buff a certain type of dps/reaction so hugelly to give them a noticeable margin between that niche support and other global supports who could fit that slots otherwise they fall into the same pit as Sara and Gorou are rn
Faruzan and Nilou are good examples of niche supports who does their job extremelly well, Faruzan makes anemo dpses competitive to others at C6 and Nilou makes a reaction meta by just existing but at the cost of limited team building
Chevreuse at any cons makes pure overloads teams from unusable bad to between usable-meta wich is also a good example of niche support and can compete/beat with kazuha in multiple electro-pyro carry teams who is considered one of the most powerfull global supports to this date
Overall yes, niche supports are good to the game as it can give units unique irreplacable identities and even compete with existing global supports, if everyone is a global support then where is the fun in team building?
very goated take, good observations with gorou & sara's place in the current meta right now as well
anyone who doomposts units just because they're 'niche' don't understand that not every unit has to be INSANELY flexible. being niche usually means they hyper-buff their respective BIS team as well
This. I don't know that I could have said it better.
Chevreuse's release was one of the more interesting things Genshin has done in a long while in my book.
I disagree with what you said about faruzan. While her c6 is a giant upgrade, she is still very much usable and a big upgrade to Wanderer and xiao, even at c0
i believe she becomes usable C2+, but the upg she gets from cons cannot be understated, its like a night & day difference
You have more patience than me :)
I tried Faruzan fresh of the first Wanderer banner at C0-C3. Even all built she still felt less useful than other characters. Both with Xiao and Wanderer.
After getting lucky with few off banners and standard pulls she’s now C6. It’s like a complete different character. The teams finally work smoothly.
We ignore the fact that DPS Faruzan is fricking funny and strong. I defeat every Main anemo unit with Jean C4. And she is SO FUN TO USE. Try it at C1
do you also main the cutest one. the one with the green hat. the one with the instrument. my beloved... **VENTI!!!**
@@Juice-chan Not at all. I dislike him since Hoyo forgot that "being drunk" and "alcohol" is no real personality trade. I despise him even. Sorry haha. That is how I got to playing DPS Faruzan in the first place. Since anemo is full of wannabe edgelords...which is cringe if your brain passed the age of 18 or venti...oh well.
niche supports are not bad actually we need more, but you need to get c6 to get decent value is bad😢
chevreuse handles things pretty well! she's good at C0
Shame on you. Why did you roast Mika but praise Yun Jin? That's not ok.
Mika is AT LEAST Eula's best support now that we have Furina because of their synergy. Yoimiya's best team on the other hand does not include Yun Jin. Also, praising Yun Jin in general should not be happening, she's the most useless niche support as of now.
Someone said my favorite character is not good. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
and yunjin honestly compared to mika she feels very stat heavy. like Mika can get away with just ER and HP, Yunjin is less restrictive as she doesn't need multiple enemies but she's like super dependent on her stats like Crit rate for Fav, Def and if you play her solo geo she needs way more ER so she might get less defense.
@@usmanya5110 True
@@JerichoTheCity Juice is my girlie henie
MIKA MY GOAT hmmm, so i did mention that mika is better now because of furina, but pre-furina he was a pretty bad support for eula. however, i did not specifically mention that eula-mika becomes better when using furina, so you're right that i should've drawn attention to that
yun-jin gets praised because of what i said; she may not be a DPS inc strictly speaking, but she is a comfort inc. also frees up bennett for teams which will get MORE value out of him! (by that i mean; yoimiya doesn't NEED bennett. some other teams do, or benefit from having him even more. so its wiser to pair yoimiya with yun-jin for efficiency!
so, she's not useless imo; she has her qualities, & most niche supports are tied to one character anyway; what do you think of these points? thank you for sharing your point also!!!
If we dont get niche characters we get generalist characters like bennet xiangling and xingqiu which are terrible for the game
niche characters balance everything out imo
debatable. i do think honestly generalist are fine as long as they aren't broken or overpowered like the national trio and Fischl.
People just want an excuse to skip xianyun
Why would people want an excuse to skip a character for no reason? Shes genuinely not that good that’s why people are skipping
@@MaryeEditz People don't have enough primos to roll for their favs characters so they make excuses to skip them.
Also why are xiao mains and plunge enjoyers in general going for her then if she's genuinely not that good?
@@dazaiosamu7184 Well yea of course there’s gonna be people that are gonna pull because some people don’t care on whether a character is good or not. if they like them they like them and they will pull regardless of opinions. but the majority of people are not pulling for her because she’s bad
@@MaryeEditz You keep saying "good" "bad" without actually specifying what actually makes her bad? Does xianyun being niche make her bad? Genuinely asking
@@MaryeEditzyea what makes her bad?
Jesus loves you ❤️ please turn to him and repent before it's too late. The end times described in the Bible are already happening in the world.
hate to break it to you buy genshin players should not be who ur advertising god to, we are the most unholy beings on the planet and cannot be swayed
cute venti pfp squid
@@Juice-chan thx