Rods - Are they balanced right out of the box? | Unboxing
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- Опубліковано 5 сер 2024
- Zac takes a look at a set of K1 Technologies LS connecting rods. Loads of great information here for anyone buying rods for their build including:
- Weighing Rods
- How to measure Reciprocating and Rotating weights
- Rod Features
- Rod Bolts
The entire LS V8 build these rods are used in is covered step by step in our Practical Engine Building course over on: www.hpacademy.com
TIME STAMPS:
0:00 - Packaging
2:11 - Visual Inspection
3:05 - Small End
3:28 - Replaceable Bushes
3:50 - H Beam Design
4:14 - Big End
4:30 - Weight Reduction
4:45 - Fasteners
5:26 - Rod Bolts
6:10 - Rod Bolt Stretch
6:40 - Heaveeeeee!
7:03 - Bearing Surface
8:00 - Strengthening Ribs
8:18 - 4340 Forged Chromoly
9:00 - Weight Check Considerations
9:39 - Weighing Rods
10:48 - The Results
11:32 - Rod Balancing Process
16:50 - Entire Build Is In Our Course Material
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#highperformanceacademy #unboxing #conrods #balacing #buildtunedrive #motorsport #enginebuilding101 #racecraft #auto #carmods #automotive #motorsports #racing #dragracing #endurance #circuitracing #roadracing #boost - Авто та транспорт
![How To Balance Your Pistons And Connecting Rods [#TECHTALK]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1Bqa3v5AfoA/mqdefault.jpg)
HP makes me want to build a Prototype race car
if i ever win the lottery...
I would have sent them back, with a note. "Fix your scales or fire the fool weighing them". I'm guessing you paid good money and were told told of the stated 'quality control tolerances' yet they didn't deliver a product as described. Excellent quality video yet again HPA. Professional attitude 10/10.
A good machinist will balance them anyways... So
Its just opening a box of rods but you guys have made is so damn interesting haha
you prolly dont give a shit but does any of you know of a trick to get back into an Instagram account..?
I was stupid forgot my password. I appreciate any assistance you can offer me!
@Bobby Maximiliano Instablaster ;)
Fantastic video, so much information and very well presented
Cheers Enuary. I'm usually doing the electronic side of builds, but I've put together a couple of engines in my time also, was great to take a break from pixie wrangling and have a look at something you can actually see! - Zac
great info shown here. very nice!
Excellent presentation
Did you remove the corrosive protection on the bolts/threads conrod threads before doing your mass calculations? I would assume that when the manufacturer weights in their parts they do it without any lubrication/protection. That could easily make a huge difference.
I've seen many aftermarket connecting rods and even crankshaft + rotating assembly kits that claimed to be balanced, but weren't. Especially from the made in China stuff for Chevrolets. That's a big pet peeve of mine in our industry.
these guys videos are great,
Can we use 2 scales with measurements taken by placing the little end on one and big end on the other? Swapping and recording all measurements?
Spongebob time lapse made me laugh way more than it should of. Lol
It’s worth noting that any weight removal should be done with the cutting method producing surface finish along the rod not across, even if no marks are visible.
Back in the day I remember a lot of F3 engines going bang. It was finally traced to some of the rods being polished across not along. All looked the same but when you are pushing the envelope it does matter.
Are you going to do anything about the piston rock your going to have at BDC thanks to the longerr stroke?!
Considering how much money ur spending on a Stroker Kit, the rods (& pistons & crankshaft) should be balanced right out of the box
Shaihan Rasheed you can trust a ballanced stroker kit right out of the box if you want to but I wouldn't. If you are going to spend that much money you should blueprint the engine or have a machine shop do it for you.
Wade Ryun yes ur right. Blueprinting an engine block is essential for high horsepower. Though I'll let an experienced machine shop do that for me
It's all a matter of degrees of balance and you could quite easily run this kit as delivered. We tend to be extremely fussy so our target balance is just tighter than those of the parts manufacturer. We find that all of the aftermarket parts we use are outside of our personal targets if that makes you feel any better.
High Performance Academy Oh I see now. Many thanks for the information
Even most OEM motors come with the rods ballanced to within a gram of each other.
You guys are very thorough, and informative. I really enjoy learning from your videos but i do question one thing on this particular one, the top of the pin boss is the thinnest part of the rod and i personally think that it would be safer to treat it like the rod cap (as per your comments on not removing material from it due to the importance of its strength). The underside of the pin boss seems reasonably enough spaced from the big end to achieve the necessary balance, and it has a much larger amount of material.
Jason, that is a really good point, and I should have been more clear about how we actually accomplish that part of the task. Once the big-ends are balanced, the static weights of the rods are typically pretty close, as we've balanced the end of the rod that has the most mass. To get them further in line, we use the linisher again, and remove material evenly from the entire circumference of the pin boss (well, all of it that we can reach). You definitely don't want to focus on just one spot, need to keep it nice and even. Typically the amount of material removed in this step is very small, tenths of a gram, so the pin boss is not thinned out noticeably. - Zac.
Was wondering.....have seen guys weigh the pin end first and then go for overall weight by grinding on the journal end and have seen others start with the journal end first. Is there an advantage to one end vs the other?
What are the rpm and HP targets for the lsx engine build?
I would have thought they would be bronze and not brass?
I have had a terrible experience with K1.
Ordered BB Chevy 7.00" rods and received 6.6" box said 7.0.
K1 admitted they put the label on the box not the supplier. I sent my rods back for an exchange was told all the 7.00" rods had been mislabeled.
They cancelled my order and told me I can reorder when they are back in stock.
A year and a half later the price has nearly doubled and they had none last I called. No offer to make it right (price or different product).
I had ordered custom pistons when they told me they had multiple sets in stock so I had to get 7.00" rods from a better company to finish my project.
And you want to know if they are balanced out of the box.
We need more videos on showing people how to measure length weight and check quality.
I hate to think what would have happened if I took this company at their word. Would have ended up with a super low compression when expecting 9.5 to 1 with a 7.00 rod.
Terrible ! 😂
send the rods back, when you pay big bucks you deserve a good product, by the way chevy cast iron rods are still under 10 bucks a piece, but aint worth shit, most of those after market companies are buying stuff from the big name folks and buying bulk, then try to blue print the parts, a half a gram is no big deal unless your snorting coke.
7:00 you were too weak 😂, had to ask another man off camera to separate it for ya. 💪
Same guy we use to open all the jam jars etc around the office. Contract him in once a week 😂 - Taz.
Hello bro, k1 or pec rods which one is better
Why are street engine's conrods located axially by the big end and not the piston end like in formula 1? @highperformanceacademy
What is that instrument called that you're using to measure the balance?
That HKS coffee mug though
One of Zac's prized possessions! - Taz.
Could you tell me how you would average the results? you said take out minimum and max results and the 3 results leftover would be average soo.. you mean by the "mean" right? Ex: 425.4 + 424.6 427.5 = 1277.5 / 3 = 425.83333?
Yeap, the averaging method we've used here is the mean. - Zac.
Should you install the rod bearing while weighing them?
no barearings have different weights they weigh em with out them
I want to build my evo, i got a set of wiseco HD pistons ready and they are doing a stock sale right now. So i can get a full set for 500 dollars. Are these safe for 500 hp at the wheels? Can't seem to find any data anywhere on these rods. i want it to be over build so i know reliability is not going to be an issue. Thank you in advance.
Hey Brent, get in touch with Wiseco directly, they will be able to tell you =) - Taz.
shot peening is not primarily used to reduce stress risers. Instead, it creates compressive stresses in the surface of the part, where the higher tensile stresses appear. Therefore, the total (tensile) stress seen by the part is lower and therefore increasing durability. (tensile stresses affect durability more than compressive ones)
Those are the rods I plan on putting in my 04 Mazda wagon 3.0L V6 when I turbocharge it.
Wade Ryun That would be a sweet ass setup, wagons are bitchin when they're cranked up
Wade Ryun K1 makes a good rod. ..I run them in my Ecotec ...👈
would have been nice to see scale calibrated with weights to verify accuracy of data collected. Id hate to build and engine based on a cheap or inaccurate scale.
Oban, also a good point, and we have calibrated these scales in the past. The absolute value we obtain from them though is far less important than the difference between the weights when we're going through the process. That's what the verification tests I like to perform are about, making sure the data is as valid as we can get it :-) - Zac.
Why? Are you weighing to find weight or are you using a scale to compare weight of similar items on the same scale?... If you inflate your tires with a certain gauge to the same pressure they are all the same on that gauge and should be equal on another scale although the pressure may differ iow it doesn't matter what there comparable weights are as long as they are weighed on the same scale... Calibrating for this exercise is useless unless you want to compare your measurements to that of the producer...
Steven Barnard I would agree. The only consideration would be if one is needing weights to assemble the correct bob weights for balancing the crank(on a non opposed engine). Since balancing the crank uses a totally different scale the actual “true” weight would matter. On an opposed boxer engine bob weights aren’t used so, if I had to choose, I think I would rather be more consistent than accurate.
Nice cut at 7min 02 :D
Context of weight matching rods not to be confused with balancing a rotating mass. Assume nothing. Great videos.
153.. my K1 Technologies con rods came with a sheet detailing each rods weight.. that was in 2014-2015.. not sure why you got a simple receipt not specific to individual rods...
If we got a sheet saying they were all different weights it wouldn't matter, we'd still be doing the same thing here. All the same weight would be nice, but as demonstrated not the end of the world if they're not. These would have been purchased in 2018 at a guess - Taz.
Any chance you could do a video on Piston to deck height?
I don't have any links I can give you that are free sorry, but if you are an HPA member we do cover this in some of our paid content. It will be in you engine building course material, but even if you have tuning or wiring courses you can also access it via a members only webinar too: www.hpacademy.com/previous-webinars/154-measuring-deck-clearance/
Sorry I couldn't be more help - Taz.
Its another measurement for compression ratio
I would like "This guy" to build my engine. (or at least sort out the piston rod assemblies) Passionate knowledgeable people produce the best results, i recon.
Sure just fly over to Australia with ur block and wait a year
@@frontspring1 New Zealand......
I'd really like to see the visual of the material removal that doesn't ruin the rod
I don't have a free lesson out on that sorry, it's in the paid course content here: www.hpacademy.com/courses/practical-engine-building/
There are a few other videos though we have that cover some aspects of it. If you're not keen on paid content those combined with some other resources around the net should help you out: ua-cam.com/video/dln-a7H2AGQ/v-deo.html - Taz.
The trust but verify could also apply to the scales.
Yup! 100% That's why we tested them to verify and recommend you do the same with your own.
If we hadn't tested at all, the expensive ones we bought to start with would have led us down the garden path - Taz.
What the maximum RPM that this rod & bolt combo can handle? (will an H type rod be okay for 7-8K RPM?) Thanks...
Yes
Yeah if well balanced, if you're running NA however and just looking for high rpm application you may want to look into I beam rods
I'm about to use Molnar H-beam 4340 rods for my 2004 M3 S54B32 motor; they look pretty much identical to these by K1 and have been rated to handle (Tom Molnar I guess was K1 before Molnar). The S54 motor revs stock 8000RPM, I see no reason why these won't be many times stronger than OE cast rods. I've heard that the piston wrist pin material is a crucial strengthening component to focus on for high RPM, high power output applications.
I have had so many rods fail because they come from the same plant in China with a different brand on them. Check out the Wiseco rods! 800 to the wheels no problem. After running and disassembly the Wiseco rods had zero stretch. Compare H beam rods on the market today side by side. Can you see a difference?
You get what you pay for. With cheap rods you get cheap materials. Today with modern CNC's you can make anything look like a million $$$. Good materials and the proper heat treating and quality hardware is what you are paying for. If you are building a big horse power high reving engine you want the best parts. If you are building a stock engine probabily not as critical.
Mine didnt even come with weights
Bush looks a bit thin 😕
if you want it done rite do it your self dad taught me sand paper & a polishing wheel
You forgot to tell us to wear gloves when handling the rotating assembly to minimise the chance of hydrogen environment. That's why the coating was on those rod bolts.
Actually gloves aren't necessary when handling an ARP2000 fastener as they don't suffer from hydrogen embrittlement like some of the more advanced materials from ARP such as L19.
If you wish to wear gloves however for your own application then no one will tell you not to, we often do too, but note in this case it is not for the reasons you state.
They aren't necessary, any iron based metal can be affected though. The higher the tensile the material, the more prone to embrittlement it is. Hence why there is a strict warning on the L19 bolts.
For the sake of a few cents for a pair of gloves, It's a risk I would never take on a high performance engine, especially if it's going to be so stressed that we're worried about stress risers in the surface finish on the rods. I've even seen damaged cranks where the crack has started from rusty fingerprint. It was so clear we could've tracked down the person at fault haha.
Wont aftermarket rods not influence the lubrication of the cylinder walls? Original GM rods had oil thrower tabs on the outer side (crank side of the bearing pocket) most aftermarket rods have nothing? Will I need to modify the rods with oil channels or the crank before use?
If this is a concern that your rod supplier hasn't addressed in a way you are happy with either grab the aftermarket rods that do, or keep the stock ones and their limitations.
It's not something we have specifically had concerns about or any issues with, but that's just our experience and decision making - Taz.
Would you ever consider epoxing the lighter rods to bring them up to the weight of the heavier rods instead of removing metal from the rod?
I dont think it would stay in place.
You need to ensure that your balance is calibrated first. Assuming that they validate and certify their balances (industrial quality systems require that), I would say that your weights are wrong
It's the difference between the weights that is important, not the weight itself. So if your scale read 110g and 510g instead of 100g and 500g it would make no difference for this use, as the gap of 400 is what we're after, not 100g or 500g :) - Taz.
guy dosn't play favorites thats for sure must have been balanced on a fri last shift
K1 were made by bridgeway racing aparently they switched to a cheaper supplier
This guys voice is like engine asmr
1
06:59 one of the important parts of video, "let's see how he separates it" ...nope.... "with that apart.." OK, thanks
Fair call, but all you missed was a token swearword and Zac pulling it out as described with the already shown technique - Taz.
High Performance Academy
Thanks, I always stress if plastigauging or removing for whatever reason, about tapping it thinking I'm stressing the bearing against the journal, so was anticipating a pro method of removing doweled caps...👍
Define "balanced"......just how close are we trying to get each end of the rods? Trying to balance an Engine closer than 1/4 ounce inch is a waste of time and money, to many variables considering oil under the piston on the up stroke verses oil trapped under the piston on the down stroke, out of balance is torque, if you have a significant out of balance it will require more torque to rotate the object going up and less going down, 8 grams, 8" from center mass, @8000rpm is equivalent to 112 pounds of out of balance US currency weighs very close to 1 gram..
if your engine builder uses h beam rods they don't know what they are doing. find one that uses Oliver rods
We're all about sharing factual knowledge here, so feel free to post some more information and links to sources etc to back up that statement as I'm sure many will find it interesting 🤘 - Taz.
Maybe that's all you guys can get there but the LS1 is such a terrible platform to build on. I see so many people over seas use LS1s in there builds when they are by far the weakest LS motor GM every made. They are not good investments. An aluminum or iron 5.3 or an LQ4/LQ4 is cheaper and much stronger to build on.
Hey Trevor, we totally understand that. LS1s are very common down here in New Zealand so can be bought on the cheap. This engine will be naturally aspirated its entire life so we won't be pushing the limits at all :) - Ben
High Performance Academy okie not bashing you guys y'all make great content can't wait to see the build :)
It's just the con rods that let go swap in a set of gen 4 rods and pistons 1000whp capable
Austin Doud yeah and live for a minute or two. The problem is the block. The 1997-98 the block can fail at the oil pump at as little as 450hp. 1999+ isn't safe passed 600hp because of the extremely thin sleeves. Even then they can crack. Even if it survives 9 out of 10 times the block is taken way out of round to the point it'll need new sleeves. Or just get a 5.3 for like $300 or a LQ4/9 for $600-$800 instead of spending $1500 on a LS1. Also just because an engine can go to a certain HP doesn't mean you should. It's not safe to push safety margins and tell people to you can get them hurt or killed.
nigga where's andre
We gave him the day off =) - Taz.
Lmao!! You want them to remove material from the part of the rod that the bolt torques into? The part that sees the most failures...how stupid. That area needs to be as strong as possible, the ribs at the bottom see nowhere near the same stress. Ever seen a rod fail by splitting the cap? Yeah, me either. I've seen plenty fail by snapping the rod bolts, that would tell me that area is the most important to keep strong.
That's correct Jarred, and a bit more thought goes into it than the observation you have made there. You should come along to the next free live engine building lesson if you'd like to learn more about performance engine building and ask some questions about connecting rod balancing, how it is done and why it is done in this way :) - www.hpacademy.com/free-engine-building-lesson/
Hope to see you there - Taz.
No
Supercool video and useful info.
Good content.
But the voice is sooo annoying I had to stop at approx 10 minutes.
Had impression like he's trying too hard to soften his voce, it made him sound just uuuggghh
Nope, that's just how he talks. Is what it is, no apologies for it, however you can mute and use captions if you're struggling =)
On the upside glad you enjoy the info - Taz.
LOL you have an ebay dope scale and trying to call out the rod manufacturer on their weights? Get a pro scale..
Hey Eddie, we spent a lot of money on some big brand US manufactured scales that would not give repeatable accurate results, whereas these do (yes we tested....). Remember it is the DIFFERENCE in the weight you need to measure and as such even if these were out by 1kg it wouldn't matter so long as they are out by that much every single time.
Remember that before you go and drop an obscene amount on precision scales, although a lot of engine builders do recommend painters scales over these as they generally are a better size for other uses in the workshop as well as giving repeatable results (again they won't be like lab scales where the accuracy of a specific weight is what you're after).
You seem like a smart guy so I'm sure that makes sense, but if you have any questions let me know - Taz.
Thats what ya get when ya buy cheap parts.