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Retro touring bikes compared. Which is best, comfort or performance?
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- Опубліковано 19 тра 2022
- The difficult question: if two touring bikes are covering the same distance in the same time, which would you ride: the comfiest one or the fastest one?
Every now and again I do actually ride my bikes. This time, putting retro (if not necessarily vintage) road touring bikes to the test. Three days and a few hundred Ks around beautiful Shropshire, Staffordshire and South Cheshire.
Bikes compared (not including the Kona Sutra!):
1. Spa Audax Titanium, with Shimano 105 road groupset, Mavic Ksyrium Elite S wheels.
2. Hewitt custom tourer, Reynolds cromoly frame, Shimano Deore XT transmission.
I think this comes down to what you view as "Bicycle Touring". It varies a lot from rider to rider. If you are looking at 70+ miles per day on decent Tarmac then yes, you should absolutely be looking at light / aero / fast. To my mind this is more in "Challenge Ride" territory, but some fit lads would think nothing of this. My personal view is that a bike tour should be more akin to a holiday. I don't mind some degree of challenge, but overall I want the experience to be relaxing and fun, taking time for the views, long lunches, maybe even a pint, and not being totally destroyed in the evening / morning. I find around 50 miles per day is about right to still be able to take time to actually enjoy it, and you don't need a fast bike for that. I think on the super hilly day even you would have been glad of a granny ring. It's comfort and practicality for me. Yes, I do also like the classic touring aesthetic too, but I am old skool.
Your words of wisdom are the key here: all I care about is being able to enjoy it and not being too destroyed to get up and go again the next day. That's the whole crux of it - the bike has to be built with that sole objective in mind.
Hello.
I'm 55 and thinking if getting a 1995 Trek 520 for a coast to coast trip in the USA.
Is that a good idea or are there better options?
@@SoundCastle00 It's hard to say without knowing all the details, but I reckon you would be fine. If I were doing a trip like that, I would want something that was: pretty bullet proof, comfortable, and uses parts available in any backwater bike shop. 3x9 drivetrains are still in common use all over the place. Hope you have a good trip!
I loved the conclusion: the best bike in the world is the one that suits your riding the best and gets you where you want to go in the way you want to get there..
A couple of years later and I still stand by that conclusion! This bike is now a pretty out-of-fashion and obsolete design but it remains my number one choice. Since this video I've spent another few quid on a full SRAM Force groupset, hand built Hope x Mavic wheels and more gold and carbon bits, and I'm already planning its 2024 adventures.
Wow! This is a really good video. It actually felt like I was along for the ride! Plus it gave me quite a few things to think about regarding my next tour. 10 out of 10 indeed.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it. I love touring adventures like this, and now is absolutely the time of year to be planning such things. Hope you enjoy your next one, and look out for more to come on this channel.
It’s a difficult call. I prefer the lighter bikes for 80% of what I do but they dont handle fully loaded touring well which would mean either a second bike for touring or just get a touring bike that can do everything except accelerate fast. I took the second option and bought a Kona Sutra. Suits my riding style perfectly. I’m in no hurry but still get around at a decent pace. The bike feels great unloaded, loaded with light weight bikepacking bags for a weekend away or fully loaded for multi week/month touring.
That was a proper video I must say the point that I would add is it's not about getting there in comfort or getting there fast it's about just getting there. Lastly I believe that total weight of the bike plus the rider and bags give it a added level of comfort whether it's a road race bike converted to touring or a standard touring bike you will be comfortable as well as fast when you need to be but the point is getting there doesn't matter how or what you used to get there just getting there is all that matters.. cheers from across the pond and 6 million thumbs up for a proper video
Thanks and glad you liked it! When you get to my age it's not just about getting there, but getting there not too destroyed to get up the next day and go again. That's the sole objective for me I think - and all the bikes in this video did the job beautifully.
Cracking vid. Comfort with close low gearing or 2x up front works for me. Easier uphill, leisurely on the flat and coasting downhill, but damn a cromo set up gets heavy when loaded up with racks and panniers!
I do quite fancy the idea of going the other way and getting full carbon/titanium everything, but then that would be pointless with all the non-essential items plus extreme body weight I’m carrying!
"Can I have my thorn back?" Nice 😀
Putting touring weight on a lightweight “racing” road bike puts excessive stress on components and other parts causing them to fail and break. Fixing simple components on a touring bikes can be done with little problems. The more complex set-ups on your “racing” bike will leave you at the side of the road or walking your bike to a bike shop(and if you’re lucky they’re open). So… while you’re sitting on the side of the road I’m completing way more miles down the road- a little more slowly perhaps but moving forward. It’s like the rabbit and the tortoise…
You should see the sheared hub flange on that Mavic Ksyrium hub, which happened after I filmed this video! I've replaced with much stronger Hope/Mavic wheels, so the bike is arguably more touring-oriented now. Still very fast though.
I think the question should'nt be about the comfiest or fastest one but the most versatile machine. For a short tour, the light bike will work but when it comes to an extended tour with camping gear, load carrying and strength of the frame has got to be the No 1 priority. On my tourer I can ride rough forest roads, paths just about anything and the road too. In Northern Sweden I had to ride 25 miles on a road which had been completly dismantled down to its base gravel core, it was rough. The lightweight setup would have been unable to cope. My 35c tyres plus cro mo frame handled it just fine. On a tour lasting several thousand miles you just dont know whats coming down the road at you.
I think ultimately it goes to show that you can’t do everything on just one bike! I use an MTB for touring on tougher terrain, but then that would have been an exhausting slog on this tour.
Iv just purchased a hewitt cheviot se! What great timming
What I forgot to mention about the Hewitt in the video is that not only is it built for comfort over big distances, but also extreme toughness. You get the sense you could ride that thing around the world without breaking it, which is more than you could say for some of comparatively delicate parts on mine.
Excellent choice sir, so long as you are not a weight weenie.
I'd love to find a Hewitt Cheviot ... what a great, great bike!
As a long distance Bicycle Traveller myself i will stick by my 3x9 and 47mm tires. :)
You're right about the tyres - that's the one concession I would make with this bike of mine. If it had the clearance I'd definitely run it on bigger than 28mm for touring. On the other hand, if you saw my recent Scottish adventure which I did on a fat tyred MTB, I can tell you that was harder going!
@@red_dread Sure it was!
In the nineties did Himalayan (indian) tarmac on Panaracer smokes..
Talk about rolling resistance. lol
@@Romin.777 Rolling resistance is a killer isn't it? You realise how bad those retro tyre designs were when you compare to modern. One of my builds has Tioga Psychos on it, which weren't popular as I recall, and the effect when you ride the thing is like trying to pedal through treacle. It's unbelievable!
@@red_dread You van say that.
I never rode psycho's however i really did like the Smoke/Dart combo in white. They were fast and cornered very well.
One tyre i will never forget the Continental Pro 1 and Pro2
Those were badass in the mud.
Good old times. :))
Exactly maybe correct!
The Mavic sport wheels on the Ti bike have a low spoke count and may be problematic with weight on the back.. I rode many centuries this year with similar wheels on a 1985 Schwinn Tempo with a rack and small trunk bag..32 spoke minimum on the rear wheel is recommended 🚲👍
You are of course correct - I'd never have specified these wheels for this purpose, I just happened to have them lying around from a redundant build. And as you predicted, they gave way last winter! Sheared at the hub flange. I have since spent some proper £££ rebuilding this bike with hand built touring wheels (Hope hubs on Mavic Open Pro) and full SRAM Force groupset. Now I love it even more than I did then.
Oh dear, I had expected retro bikes like my most modern 2004 Dawes Galaxy or my 1982/3 Mercian Olympic.
I deliberately used the word "retro" rather than "vintage"! The bikes in this film have more in common with the designs of decades ago than they do with anything of today. They are decidedly retro even if (as is the case with my Spa in its current guise) half the components are brand new.
What is the music? Oh, another cracking upload, my good man.
Thanks! It's called Lights by Patrick Patrikos, from the UA-cam music library. I've quit using tunes from my own record collection because I'm worried about getting into trouble for copyrights.
Great video, did not anticipate the outcome, but the old saying horses for courses comes to mind. One question, the fellow wearing the orange touring polo shirt with rear pockets, what brand is it, I’ve been looking for one of those for ages. I’m a bit old for the Lycra stuff and have hung up my racing bike and now ride my Claud Butler majestic everywhere I cycle, stylish cycle clothing is now the preferred apparel, and that shirt really is stylish, I really want one.
Glad you liked the vid! Let me ask my mate where he got his top from - my guess is it would have been one of the independent stallholders when Eroica Britannia had a mini-festival attached pre Covid. In which case sadly it'll be hard to find... But let's see what he says.
For going off I to unknown territory / weather, I would take the dedicated tourer. I toured Italy on a road bike and got caught in 10 days of floods (2019). Roads too wet to see the fissures in the road surface, I would have swapped my set up for a 29er at that point. I've toured on workhorse touring bikes, even 26" wheels, over the course of the tour one's daily milage goes up in any case, sure the road bike is fast but there's more chance that I'd burn my legs out early on in the tour. I have built up a lightweight road / touring bike but would only really use in summer, on nice asphalt. Horses for courses I guess.
I do think there is still a gap in my collection for a dedicated "adventure bike." I've toured extensively both on this ti audax bike and also on a 26er, but something that somehow maximises speed x robustness x comfort must surely be the aim. Is there such a thing?
@@red_dread I don't know, I feel like I'm chasing my tail sometimes and just collecting more bikes 😂
Building up a (cheap) compact aluminium hybrid frame ( Trek fx) was a game changer, I could just feel more power going through the pedals and combined with 40mm tyres it displaced my traditional steel tourer. Since building up that I bought a steel expedition bike, so obviously, chasing one's own tail is all part of the fun.
Any bikes catching your eye at the moment?
@@deezkayx1441 If any particular bike had caught my eye, I'd already have bought it! Such is the disease of the bicycle collector. Whatever I buy next will likely be titanium, lots of rack mounts, fairly aero, and all the mod cons like disc brakes and plenty of tyre clearance.
that sounds perfect for summer, don't delay!
@@deezkayx1441 I literally finished building another new bike yesterday (see my latest video), taking my collection to around 20. If I don't delay then my wife will have me taken away.
Hi Oliver.
I noticed the 3 point carrier you had on the back. Could you feel the panniers swaying?
I have to say though, back in 91 I bought a Tony Oliver Columbus tubed touring frame to replace my 531 ST Revel Romany. It has to be the most comfortable, stable and effortless ride ever. He built it for his wife and we were the same height and it fitted like a glove.
To answer your question though, at 55 these days it's all about comfort for me. My fast days are long gone 😉
The panniers don’t move that much - obviously you have to acclimatise to them when climbing out of the saddle for example, but generally this luggage system can’t be faulted. As for comfort, I completely agree - that’s all I want, but the complication is that fast bikes require so much less effort, hence in the end are they actually more comfortable??
I did a gran fondo of sorts this past weekend on a hybrid bike with 700C x 30 tires. Rolling resistance was a huge factor in this ride; I could not effectively leverage the few downhills there were and had to work hard on the relatively mild ramps. They made for a comfy ride, but soft, wide tires are officially not my first choice for riding on smooth roads. After just a few miles, I found myself wishing I'd opted for 25s.
Exactly this. I think it's all in the tyres - if you're on tarmac, even rough or broken tarmac, then I think 28s are the ideal. Any skinnier and you'll start to suffer or risk damage, but any fatter and you'll feel like you're slogging through treacle. Perhaps I should have had mine at more like 80psi rather than 100, but otherwise my aching old body is glad I had that racy wheel setup.
I believe the correct answer is, the one that leaves you smiling at the end of the ride.
Also, glad to see you're not dead. Did you ever get around to trying Evaporust?
Still not dead. I have a bit of a shopping list and Evaporust is on it - but as you’ll see in the next video, it’s not currently required…
They're both beautiful bikes, but I don't think that titanium one can take anything bigger than 25 mm. tyre and that's not enough for any type of touring.
I watched it back recently and realised you're completely right - that's the ultimate limitation on this bike. There's one shot where you can see just how tight the clearance is under the mudguards - I believe it's actually running 28mms but there's no way you could fit anything a nanometre bigger than that. But as long as I keep it for smoother surfaces, it's still hard to beat.
what about using a beach cruiser with upgraded gearing and tires ?
Of course you could tour on one of those, and it would be comfy and robust. But there's no way it could cover the same sort of distance anywhere near as efficiently.
Your chainstay length looks a little short creating a risk of dreaded pannier foot slap. But clearly this wasn't a problem or you would have mentioned it. The high weight of the Hewitt isn't so much a comfort trade-off as a strength one. For this kind of light touring/randonneuring you really want 0.8/0.5/0.8 road tubing but single oversize to avoid shimmy when loaded. A frameset like that would be sub 2kg. But touring frames are often heavier built for the kind of round-the-world trips that you can enjoy on such channels as Nomad's Trails and Saddle Stories. That scene is all triple butted, pinion gearboxes or Rohloffs, belt drives and 2 inch tyres, built to survive a fall into a sinkhole in the African rift valley with 50kg of luggage.
I have huge feet but clever rack design keeps the panniers sitting well back. We did talk about the “round the world” question but that didn’t make the answer any easier. Yes there’s the African sinkhole scenario, plus the old magazine cliche that you need materials that a third world blacksmith could repair, but on the other hand look at some of those other world tourers choosing titanium, aero bars etc. Glad to say I’m not a big distance rider anyway - after 3 days of it I’m happy to be on the sofa.
@@red_dread A blacksmith wouldn't really be able to repair a Reynolds 725 frame anyway. That would require a TIG welder experienced with thin-walled tubing: in other words a bicycle frame builder. Yes aluminium or titanium are also fine choices. But the best material for any bike frame is really still metal anyway. By which I mean steel.
Ha, I remember you’re a man of steel. I must admit my money-no-object touring build would most likely be steel.
@@red_dread Yes it should be metal, have rim brakes, long chainstays, curved fork blades, barcons, relatively high stack, and be in an auld git colour such as dark blue or green.
Wouldn't a "verdant B.A. Baracus" be the Incredible Hulk?
I haven’t observed the Hulk’s hairstyles over the years, but I cannot believe he could ever compete with BA.
This rear rim is giving goose bump, be careful, it looks like it's about to pop/crack open !
That’s just surface corrosion from lack of use! It passes the micrometer test, fear not.
@@red_dread all good then :)
Give us an email and we can send in pictures of our vintage touring bikes and you can do a compilation and judge them for your next video.
Would love to see some viewers' builds! oliver.chesher@yahoo.co.uk
It's Jelly Baby powder, constable...
Whatever it was, it was the reason I went very fast and never got tired. Like magic.
Clearly much more in-depth research and analysis is required, a PhD in the making perhaps😁
The both look a size or two too small
Both were custom so I can confirm they've been fitted to the riders. But we're both big lads so we look like circus bears on whatever we ride.
@@red_dread were they built by someone who specializes in touring bikes? One has so much seat post exposed it's thebsame length as the seat tube.
@@indy2867 Ah I see what you mean. Mine wasn't built as a pure touring bike - it was originally designed as an audax but I specified it for daily fast commuting and adventures on less than perfect surfaces. The low top tube and long seatpost are an idea derived from mountain biking, because I like to have both standover clearance and a good amount of flex at the seat for extra comfort. This bike now has a Hope carbon seatpost and is even more comfortable to ride. Perhaps it's not quite as retro or traditional as I'd described it in the video!
@@red_dread AHH!! Ok, that makes sense!