Love the videos, Mike. Your depth of knowledge and attention to detail are wonderful to see. Thanks for sharing, I really appreciate what you do. Ride safe
Thanks Mike. You're the Bob Ross of motorcycle repair; making an otherwise intimidating project seem like a relaxing way to spend a day. I'm really diggin your videos!
Another great video! I honestly feel a lot more confident tackling my first transmission tear down and rebuild this winter. That could be next week where I’m at it seems. Sheeeesh. Frost warning already last night. Yuck!! Thanks for what you do. Your videos really help a lot of folks. Myself included.
Cool video as always brother! Love it when guys like you show everything! And don't try and make it look like, parts just go together without problems! Like they do on TV!
We'll have to look into showing that. But honestly, there's nothing like a new, complete gear set. The old gears work okay, even when they're beat up. If they look good, they probably are. If they're beat up, they'll probably be noisy. It usually comes down to a money issue.
Hi Mike, just did my main shaft seal (leaked like a sieve) and took the 49 out for a spin, no leaks!! I think Gary Cooper was last one into the gearbox in the early 90's. The 50 motor should be ready around the first part of Sept and the trans following. Could have been sooner but they took 2 weeks to go to Bonneville with an Indian. Keep at it. It would be cool if you mentioned when and where to use impact tools. My Super Max silent drive specifically says NO IMPACT on the motor pulley. A guy could easily make a boo boo and destroy something expensive and hard to replace. Best regards, John
First off; cool, I love your '49. Next; your '50 will be awesome like your '49. I try to show when to use impact tools. The Super Max belt drive used plastic pulleys. True story. I was there in the early eighties. They were cast out of glass filled urethane. Not something I would use an impact tool near. But, when they were made of exactly the right mixture, they were great. Still, no impact. Don't know if anyone is manufacturing that stuff any more. Phil Ross, the owner of Super Max, passed several years ago. Many many stories of those days. Sugar Bear made the metal parts, I assembled the prototypes for a while. Sugar Bear and I didn't meet until quite a few years later. He's quite a guy. Hopefully see you at Chopperfest.
Always great videos, can you tell me, us, about the gearing sets ?. Don't know what's in my el, but I'm building a '58 pan and I have my notes about using the 25 tooth drive gear for better cruising, but what about the gear sets, 2.00, 3.00, 3.50, what's the ideal gear set? Thanks Rick
You're going at it a little backward. The easiest way, if you're running a primary chain, is a 24 tooth motor sprocket. That way, no muss, no fuss, a standard length chain for your bike will fit. The gear sets in the trans vary with what you want the bike to do. 4th gear in a 4 speed is always one to one. Final drive sprocket, if you're running a drum brake is 51, period. Now, all you need to decide is what size sprocket you want on the trans. Again, what do you want it to do?
Hi Mike! I am rebuilding a late model 4 speed transmission right now with cages bearings in the countershaft. I had to remove and replace my countershaft bearings, but the manual doesn’t say what depth the new bearings should be pushed into the countershaft cluster. Would you have any information to share? I found a forum saying that the low gear side should be .130 in from the shoulder and the high gear side should be .180 in from the shoulder. Is that correct? Thanks for all your detailed videos!
Okay Ms. Rider, I'm going back out to the garage to see if I can find those numbers for you. Be sure and look in a little while to see if I came up with anything. I remember there is a number for the depth of the main drive bearing (caged and press in). Let's see what I can find.
Well, I just went out to the garage, then back again. I found my 1978 1/2 to 1984 FL/FX service manual. You are correct! They don't tell you. Now, I can't remember how I fit the last ones on these "late model" 4 speeds. I remember installing that stuff into my late 77 Shovelhead. It had caged bearings in its transmission. For some reason, I think they were just pressed in until flush with or slightly below the end of the gear, which just runs against the countershaft bushings, which are pressed into the case and rarely if ever need replacing. The risk of damaging the case while removing those bushings is way to great. I don't think you really have an issue here. That coutershaft washer on one end takes care of that gear and just the bushing takes care of the other end. Anyway, I didn't mean to be rude. I just tell everyone to buy a service manual. But you got me. The info wasn't there! Good liuck. I think you'll be fine. Take care. I enjoy your channel.
@@pacificmike9501 Thanks for taking the time Mike! My transmission is from a 1978 Shovelhead and I have both the pre '78 and '78 1/2 manuals, but still could not find the info. Thanks again for being helpful, and same to you! ✌
awesome content! just curious to know if there is a torque spec for the kicker cover and mounting studs... other than tight but dont crack the case. this video was EXTREMELY helpful. thanks
We did one a while back. But, I didn't do anything to the lid. Go to our UA-cam Homepage and click on the word "videos." All of our videos are accessible there.
Hello Mike, hope all is well. I'm really hoping you can help me with a tricky question. I've been making numerous repairs to a '68FLH that had been restored years ago by someone other than myself, but not overly correctly!! Had some transmission lid and starter issues that I am working through. Changed from a hand shift lid back to a ratchet lid. It had the '70 and up clutch shell and starter ring gear in it, in which the starter ring gear was chewed. I installed the correct clutch shell and starter ring gear ('65 - '69). That being stated I then reused the clutch plates which were all in good shape. I then had a problem with the clutch not fully disengaging. I slightly opened the holes up on the 5 friction discs and I also installed a ram jet retainer in hopes that this would give me enough stroke to fully disengage the clutch. I did all that and it still is not fully disengaging, so I had to remove all the slack at the hand lever so it does not grab. Frustrating!! Since I did not put the transmission together I have no idea whether someone put a '70 and up mainshaft in or if it has the correct '65 - '69 mainshaft. The '70 and up is 1/2" longer apparently and uses a 1/2" longer clutch pushrod. Can you please advise to how much of the clutch pushrod should be sticking out past the clutch hub nut with the clutch release arm almost against the starter? I think this is the only way I can determine if I have the right year mainshaft in my transmission. Maybe this is causing me some issues with the clutch not fully disengaging??
It could even have the wrong arm on it. I've gone crazy with those years before. 68 is the first year with no mousetrap. You mentioned it had a handshift lid. Do some research on that clutch arm. I even heated and bent a few. But if you tell anyone, I'll probably deny it. Are you using a clutch half plate. These things were all changing at that point. You appear to be using a real parts book. Stick with it. Make sure of the proper clutch plate stack and springs and lever and as you mentioned the clutch rod and stay with the early type throwout bearing and kicker cover. Ram Jett retainer is a very good part. Roger Ram Jett was a Good personal friend and I miss him. I have faith. You have the right attitude. You will win.
Thank you Mike for your thoughts. Obviously in '70 Harley went to the alternator and changed the inner primary...is that why the 1/2" longer mainshaft and clutch push rod? I just trying to put my Sherlock Holmes hat on and deduce...lol.
Mike, thank you for your recent reply to another query of mine. With regards to the shifter forks and their shims, I am having a hard time getting the correct alignment. Now in the HD 59-69 manual it shows that each shifter fork has one standard spacing shim between the shifting finger and the fork and then there can be a variable amount of .007 and .014" spacing shims on both sides of the fork. Have you ever had to remove the "standard spacing shim" from the finger side and substitute it with perhaps a .007" or .014" shim to get the alignment you need? I ask because it appears that this is what I would need to do to get the alignment I am looking for. Is there a reason I cannot do as I described? Thank you.
All that really matters is that those forks are spaced properly and that end plays are first correct according to your manual. This is, of course, assuming your forks are in good shape and not bent.
Love your videos Mike! Im working in a Big Twin Flatehad 4 speed trans, can you please tell me the OD meassurement of the main shaft bearing race?. The case that I have looks like diferent than yours Thanks
Are you speaking of the main drive race? I normally put a new one in a 76 and older trans case. If necessary, I then hone it to size. The other end of the shaft goes into a ball bearing.
Hello Mike, I go back and forth with your videos depending what I'm tackling. With regards to the fourth gear drive gear I'm curious as to how much end play there should be with the sprocket, seals, etc. and nut in placed and torqued. The transmission is a stock 4 spd. for a '68FLH. I found the spec for the countershaft end play easily, but having a hard time with the fourth gear drive gear play. What do you like to see for this end play and what does the factory call for?
You can't really control it. When everything is in there and tightened up, that's about it. Make sure you have the proper sprocket with the recess to the inside.
Hi Mike, one question about the tightening torque of the main shaft nut. In Clymer Manual, it’s written 69-83 N.m which, to my point of view, is well too tightened. Do you have an other torque? Thank you for your videos, great explanations and an easy to understand diction for a French guy!
Replacing my 2nd gear bushing (35791-36) and the new one has a chamfered edge on one end. Thould that go towards the retaining washer (35811-36) on the kicker side of the trans... or towards the sprocket side of the trans?
Hi Mike. Thanks for all these videos, they’re very helpful. Wondering if you might be able to help here. At 12:08 you mention/show a spacer on the outside of the gear. This spacer is not shown in my manual (late 77 with caged rollers), nor is it present in my transmission, and the lack of it would very much explain why I have so much countershaft end play (.035” even with a .105” thrust washer in position) Any chance you could give a part number or reference any literature where I could find it? Thank you so much
Both V-Twin and Drag Specialties show the shim with the countershaft parts blowup. HD pn.35875-36. Countershaft gear end washer set (7 pack). Each company will assign their own part number, but, the o.e.m. number will easily get you there.
Hey guys, one thing I discovered, by drawing/layout on CAD, is that there is only .0002 clearance, circumference wise, on stock size needle bearings for the main drive gear. So as soon as you jump to a .0004 or bigger oversize bearing it is physically impossible to fit the 44th needle bearing because of the lack of clearance circumference wise. I drew out all case scenarios for diameter clearances and the only way you could fit that 44th bearing would be with a hammer, which would not be good for a smooth rolling main drive gear. So anytime you have oversize needle bearings on your main drive gear with all the proper diameter clearances, you will have to leave out that 44th needle bearing, which is probably why this tranny only had 43 needle bearings.
You know, that makes perfect sense. For years, I came across transmissions missing one roller on the main drive gear. I used the first "oversize" and dropped it off, with the case, bearings, and gear, at the local machine shop. The kid in there had the touch. I had known him since he was a little kid. He'd hone the main race for a perfect fit. I then corrected every one of those I rebuilt and was able to install a full compliment of rollers. I never thought about it too much, but you're certainly correct.
It is a real pity that good parts for old Harley transmissions are so hard to come by nowadays. I am totally on your side when you say "I took that thing apart anyways; let's replace all the stuff that wears". But in my experience it is very often better to buff the old stuff up and keep it. Especially when it comes to thrust plates and shims. A slightly scored OEM Harley thrust washer from 1965 out of a 50,000 mile Sportster transmission will still outlast the new aftermarket one if you hit that thing with some 1000 grit on the surface plate.....
I don't know about now, but all of those shims and spacers (at least the ones I knew of) came from Bender Cycle in a far away land known as Cleveland Ohio. Contact them and ask. You may have gotten something funky when there's better stuff available.
Greetings Mike! This is David up in Atwater, California. I'm a fan, and I have watched most of your vids. I am doing my first transmission now. It's a pretty decent 65 4 speed out of my 75 Fx Harley. It's been in the bike forever and has always operated perfectly. What it began to do is not stay in 4th gear. Sometimes it would go in fine, and stay in gear with no problem. But once in a while it will not stay in 4th. No other symptoms. No noises or grinding or anything unusual. Nothing in the fluid either. Fluids perfect. So it just doesn't want to stay in 4th sometimes. I can't get a hint anywhere or from anyone as to what it could be. I like to at least have a hint as to what is wrong before I begin a job, ya know? Will you please tell me what you think. about why it might not want to remain in 4th gear like that? So keep up the good work Mike! I hold you in high regard and I hope I run into you at the swaps in the future.
Once the trans is out, it's probably not a big deal. Forks have to be set right. Things have to be spaced and held in place properly. You'll need to buy or borrow the fixture to "time" the forks. The only problem is, once you take it apart, you'll want to freshen up everything inside the trans. It's really nice when you're done. I haven't done any swap meets up north in a long time. Probably need to do that. I try to make Long Beach every couple of months and just did Chopperfest. We'll run into each other.
Mike help me! Swapping cases, I took the original race that fit my mainshaft and needle bearings, pressed it into my replacement case and it seems to have shrunk maybe a thou! I can’t fit 4th gear in by pressing, I have to pursuance it in with a mallet! What should I do! I don’t want to leave a bearing out but should I be skeptical about having someone honing it and doing it straight and right? Some people have said that’s not typical
That's the way I do it. If standard rollers are too tight, take it to a machinist with a Hone. In the old days, every motorcycle shop had a Sunnen hone.
ok, now that I am fitting and setting end play, I see a spec for gear backlash as .003-.006 - how would that be checked - and how to change if necessary?
Mike I have a question. I completed my S&S shovel engine build this week and ordered my frame. I have 90 days until my frame arrives and in that time I am going to build a 4 speed transmission - all new. I like to punish myself searching for parts and assembling stuff. I do not know whether I should go ratchet top or rotary - I found a new ratchet top case but wanted to get your opinion if rotary would provide some kind of noticeable performance or maintenance benefit?
Cool. Remember, the lids don't interchange. Rotary lid and ratchet lid trans cases are different from each other. Then there's jocky lids. They fit where a ratchet lid will.
@@pacificmike9501 I did not know that - I am sticking to 78-79 FX ratchet top style with suicide and foot clutch. Been watching your 4 speed video and Frank K (rip) videos and I have a great deal to learn. The theme of this bike will be from 1976 - with the color and select imagery from 2112. I hope to heck to be riding it by summer. In the meantime we will see you out there on Merlin (‘01 fxst) and The Ram (‘02 Ironhorse Slammer).
Modern gearlubes are certainly superior to the old ones. The old Harley service manuals recommend the same as the motor oil you're running. Most of the people I know run a leading brand of 85/140.
Do the 1940s three bolt transmissions have a drain plug? I have heard different stories from different people. I see a bolt at the back bottom of the transmission that looks like it might be a drain plug.
@@pacificmike9501 I have two WLA era manuals and a maintenance manual. They only have the rider check the tranny oil, not change it. After quite a bit if poking around, I did find a drain plug at the back bottom of the case. But, it is tight against the frame and sits below the access hole. Evidently the frame and tranny are from different years. So, the military lean-it-on-it's-side maneuver was employed. No need to work on my dead lift at the gym. Now, i just need to find out why it no longer will downshift from 3rd. Adjusting the clutch eight-ways-from-Sunday did not help.
Every once in a while, I must admit I don't know. There are people out there that specialize in 45 transmissions. One of the reasons I have several different kinds of Harleys is so I could live with them and learn. 46 years with my Shovelhead has taught me Shovelheads. 32 years with my Panhead has taught me Panheads. Okay, I'm old. I had another Panhead before my current one. But, I've never owned a 45. The transmissions require the use of tools I don't even have. But again, there are people out there that know them well.
Mike I'm trying to put a new drive gear spacer on my pan the new spacer won't go over the splines it slides over the threads fine but the splines are .02 " bigger than the spacer
Yes. There are a few small differences. The only big difference (other than the "ratchet lid," (50 was a "hand shift"), the 65 case is different, to mate with the 65 inner primary to support the electric starter. 65 was the first big twin Harley with an electric starter.
@@pacificmike9501 Thank you the 48 case I have could become a spare transmission for my 65. I have some suspicions about the main shaft. and was wondering about turning it into a spare. So now I'll just take it out and check and replace any thing that's going bad. I'm planing on changing the front end out for a deuce 04 to get a front brake on her. It's on a rigid frame and I bought it as a partially complete bobber. I'm looking forward to viewing your videos this winter wile I work on her and a V-rod that I want to change around so it's stable at higher speeds. I am so glad I found your site. I'm retired now and the last grand child has moved out so I'll be able to work on things in the living room as the garage is not heated. Thank You again Mike from Maryland
Is this when you're stopped, or moving? Is this a jockey lid, ratchet top or rotary lid? Probably have to remove the lid, which means removing the transmission.
Love the videos, Mike. Your depth of knowledge and attention to detail are wonderful to see. Thanks for sharing, I really appreciate what you do. Ride safe
Thank you.
I know it's kinda randomly asking but does anyone know of a good website to stream new movies online ?
@Dakari Lionel i dunno I use flixportal. just google after it=) -coleman
@Coleman Derek Thanks, signed up and it seems to work =) I really appreciate it !!
@Dakari Lionel glad I could help :)
Thank you Mike. Between you and Tatro, I've learned alot.
Cool and thank you.
But Tatro is really brutal with the things. I prefer Mikes approach 😁
Thanks Mike. You're the Bob Ross of motorcycle repair; making an otherwise intimidating project seem like a relaxing way to spend a day. I'm really diggin your videos!
Thank you. That is the intent.
Another great video! I honestly feel a lot more confident tackling my first transmission tear down and rebuild this winter. That could be next week where I’m at it seems. Sheeeesh. Frost warning already last night. Yuck!!
Thanks for what you do. Your videos really help a lot of folks. Myself included.
Thank you. That is the intent.
Man you nailed this one,, awesome,, if anyone knows anythindg about a pan or shovel,,knows,, MIKE Thanks,, from Alabama
Thank you.
Great video Mike so glad your friend didn't go buck low it just never works out well! Look forward to your next installment.
You do what you can with what you got. Glad he could do it.
Cool video as always brother! Love it when guys like you show everything! And don't try and make it look like, parts just go together without problems! Like they do on TV!
Thank you. We do try to present things honestly, and, for real.
Great series of videos! It would be helpful to illustrate what to look for when determining that a gear has seen better days.
We'll have to look into showing that. But honestly, there's nothing like a new, complete gear set. The old gears work okay, even when they're beat up. If they look good, they probably are. If they're beat up, they'll probably be noisy. It usually comes down to a money issue.
Mike if you ever need a break from working on bikes, I’d say you’d make a great DJ! Definitely got the voice and temperament! Carry on bro!
Thank You. Haven't had any "job offers" though.
Thank you for the video!
Very informative!
Thank you.
Hi Mike, just did my main shaft seal (leaked like a sieve) and took the 49 out for a spin, no leaks!! I think Gary Cooper was last one into the gearbox in the early 90's. The 50 motor should be ready around the first part of Sept and the trans following. Could have been sooner but they took 2 weeks to go to Bonneville with an Indian. Keep at it. It would be cool if you mentioned when and where to use impact tools. My Super Max silent drive specifically says NO IMPACT on the motor pulley. A guy could easily make a boo boo and destroy something expensive and hard to replace. Best regards, John
First off; cool, I love your '49. Next; your '50 will be awesome like your '49. I try to show when to use impact tools. The Super Max belt drive used plastic pulleys. True story. I was there in the early eighties. They were cast out of glass filled urethane. Not something I would use an impact tool near. But, when they were made of exactly the right mixture, they were great. Still, no impact. Don't know if anyone is manufacturing that stuff any more. Phil Ross, the owner of Super Max, passed several years ago. Many many stories of those days. Sugar Bear made the metal parts, I assembled the prototypes for a while. Sugar Bear and I didn't meet until quite a few years later. He's quite a guy. Hopefully see you at Chopperfest.
Thank you for the great series Mike. And if you ever want to "donate" that junk transmission, I might be able to do something with it...
Thank you and sorry, can't donate what isn't mine.
Always great videos, can you tell me, us, about the gearing sets ?. Don't know what's in my el, but I'm building a '58 pan and I have my notes about using the 25 tooth drive gear for better cruising, but what about the gear sets, 2.00, 3.00, 3.50, what's the ideal gear set?
Thanks Rick
You're going at it a little backward. The easiest way, if you're running a primary chain, is a 24 tooth motor sprocket. That way, no muss, no fuss, a standard length chain for your bike will fit. The gear sets in the trans vary with what you want the bike to do. 4th gear in a 4 speed is always one to one. Final drive sprocket, if you're running a drum brake is 51, period. Now, all you need to decide is what size sprocket you want on the trans. Again, what do you want it to do?
Hi Mike! I am rebuilding a late model 4 speed transmission right now with cages bearings in the countershaft. I had to remove and replace my countershaft bearings, but the manual doesn’t say what depth the new bearings should be pushed into the countershaft cluster. Would you have any information to share? I found a forum saying that the low gear side should be .130 in from the shoulder and the high gear side should be .180 in from the shoulder. Is that correct?
Thanks for all your detailed videos!
When you say "late model," what does that mean? The info you need should be in the book. I don't mind looking it up, what year?
Okay Ms. Rider, I'm going back out to the garage to see if I can find those numbers for you. Be sure and look in a little while to see if I came up with anything. I remember there is a number for the depth of the main drive bearing (caged and press in). Let's see what I can find.
Well, I just went out to the garage, then back again. I found my 1978 1/2 to 1984 FL/FX service manual. You are correct! They don't tell you. Now, I can't remember how I fit the last ones on these "late model" 4 speeds. I remember installing that stuff into my late 77 Shovelhead. It had caged bearings in its transmission. For some reason, I think they were just pressed in until flush with or slightly below the end of the gear, which just runs against the countershaft bushings, which are pressed into the case and rarely if ever need replacing. The risk of damaging the case while removing those bushings is way to great. I don't think you really have an issue here. That coutershaft washer on one end takes care of that gear and just the bushing takes care of the other end. Anyway, I didn't mean to be rude. I just tell everyone to buy a service manual. But you got me. The info wasn't there! Good liuck. I think you'll be fine. Take care. I enjoy your channel.
@@pacificmike9501 Thanks for taking the time Mike! My transmission is from a 1978 Shovelhead and I have both the pre '78 and '78 1/2 manuals, but still could not find the info. Thanks again for being helpful, and same to you! ✌
awesome content! just curious to know if there is a torque spec for the kicker cover and mounting studs... other than tight but dont crack the case. this video was EXTREMELY helpful. thanks
I think you've got it.
@@pacificmike9501 Haha, that was the only torque spec I've ever come across on this adventure.
Thanks Mike!
Thank you.
Thanks for the series, loved them. Do you also have them for a rotary top?
We did one a while back. But, I didn't do anything to the lid. Go to our UA-cam Homepage and click on the word "videos." All of our videos are accessible there.
@@pacificmike9501 thank, I’ve found them but that’s what I wanted to watch, the work on the lid. Well to bad for me. Much Thanks for the reply!!
THANK YOU...for sharing.
Thank you.
Hello Mike, hope all is well. I'm really hoping you can help me with a tricky question. I've been making numerous repairs to a '68FLH that had been restored years ago by someone other than myself, but not overly correctly!! Had some transmission lid and starter issues that I am working through. Changed from a hand shift lid back to a ratchet lid. It had the '70 and up clutch shell and starter ring gear in it, in which the starter ring gear was chewed. I installed the correct clutch shell and starter ring gear ('65 - '69). That being stated I then reused the clutch plates which were all in good shape. I then had a problem with the clutch not fully disengaging. I slightly opened the holes up on the 5 friction discs and I also installed a ram jet retainer in hopes that this would give me enough stroke to fully disengage the clutch. I did all that and it still is not fully disengaging, so I had to remove all the slack at the hand lever so it does not grab. Frustrating!! Since I did not put the transmission together I have no idea whether someone put a '70 and up mainshaft in or if it has the correct '65 - '69 mainshaft. The '70 and up is 1/2" longer apparently and uses a 1/2" longer clutch pushrod. Can you please advise to how much of the clutch pushrod should be sticking out past the clutch hub nut with the clutch release arm almost against the starter? I think this is the only way I can determine if I have the right year mainshaft in my transmission. Maybe this is causing me some issues with the clutch not fully disengaging??
It could even have the wrong arm on it. I've gone crazy with those years before. 68 is the first year with no mousetrap. You mentioned it had a handshift lid. Do some research on that clutch arm. I even heated and bent a few. But if you tell anyone, I'll probably deny it. Are you using a clutch half plate. These things were all changing at that point. You appear to be using a real parts book. Stick with it. Make sure of the proper clutch plate stack and springs and lever and as you mentioned the clutch rod and stay with the early type throwout bearing and kicker cover. Ram Jett retainer is a very good part. Roger Ram Jett was a Good personal friend and I miss him. I have faith. You have the right attitude. You will win.
Thank you Mike for your thoughts. Obviously in '70 Harley went to the alternator and changed the inner primary...is that why the 1/2" longer mainshaft and clutch push rod? I just trying to put my Sherlock Holmes hat on and deduce...lol.
Mike, thank you for your recent reply to another query of mine. With regards to the shifter forks and their shims, I am having a hard time getting the correct alignment. Now in the HD 59-69 manual it shows that each shifter fork has one standard spacing shim between the shifting finger and the fork and then there can be a variable amount of .007 and .014" spacing shims on both sides of the fork. Have you ever had to remove the "standard spacing shim" from the finger side and substitute it with perhaps a .007" or .014" shim to get the alignment you need? I ask because it appears that this is what I would need to do to get the alignment I am looking for. Is there a reason I cannot do as I described? Thank you.
All that really matters is that those forks are spaced properly and that end plays are first correct according to your manual. This is, of course, assuming your forks are in good shape and not bent.
Thanks for your thoughts Mike.
Love your videos Mike! Im working in a Big Twin Flatehad 4 speed trans, can you please tell me the OD meassurement of the main shaft bearing race?. The case that I have looks like diferent than yours Thanks
Are you speaking of the main drive race? I normally put a new one in a 76 and older trans case. If necessary, I then hone it to size. The other end of the shaft goes into a ball bearing.
@@pacificmike9501 Yes, main drive race, sir if you can tell me the Outer diameter I will be grateful!
I don't have one out at the moment.
Hello Mike, I go back and forth with your videos depending what I'm tackling. With regards to the fourth gear drive gear I'm curious as to how much end play there should be with the sprocket, seals, etc. and nut in placed and torqued. The transmission is a stock 4 spd. for a '68FLH. I found the spec for the countershaft end play easily, but having a hard time with the fourth gear drive gear play. What do you like to see for this end play and what does the factory call for?
You can't really control it. When everything is in there and tightened up, that's about it. Make sure you have the proper sprocket with the recess to the inside.
Hi Mike, one question about the tightening torque of the main shaft nut. In Clymer Manual, it’s written 69-83 N.m which, to my point of view, is well too tightened. Do you have an other torque? Thank you for your videos, great explanations and an easy to understand diction for a French guy!
Just good and tight. Be sure to use the locktab.
Replacing my 2nd gear bushing (35791-36) and the new one has a chamfered edge on one end. Thould that go towards the retaining washer (35811-36) on the kicker side of the trans... or towards the sprocket side of the trans?
Go by the picture in your service manual.
Hi Mike. Thanks for all these videos, they’re very helpful. Wondering if you might be able to help here. At 12:08 you mention/show a spacer on the outside of the gear. This spacer is not shown in my manual (late 77 with caged rollers), nor is it present in my transmission, and the lack of it would very much explain why I have so much countershaft end play (.035” even with a .105” thrust washer in position) Any chance you could give a part number or reference any literature where I could find it? Thank you so much
Both V-Twin and Drag Specialties show the shim with the countershaft parts blowup. HD pn.35875-36. Countershaft gear end washer set (7 pack). Each company will assign their own part number, but, the o.e.m. number will easily get you there.
Hey guys, one thing I discovered, by drawing/layout on CAD, is that there is only .0002 clearance, circumference wise, on stock size needle bearings for the main drive gear. So as soon as you jump to a .0004 or bigger oversize bearing it is physically impossible to fit the 44th needle bearing because of the lack of clearance circumference wise. I drew out all case scenarios for diameter clearances and the only way you could fit that 44th bearing would be with a hammer, which would not be good for a smooth rolling main drive gear. So anytime you have oversize needle bearings on your main drive gear with all the proper diameter clearances, you will have to leave out that 44th needle bearing, which is probably why this tranny only had 43 needle bearings.
You know, that makes perfect sense. For years, I came across transmissions missing one roller on the main drive gear. I used the first "oversize" and dropped it off, with the case, bearings, and gear, at the local machine shop. The kid in there had the touch. I had known him since he was a little kid. He'd hone the main race for a perfect fit. I then corrected every one of those I rebuilt and was able to install a full compliment of rollers. I never thought about it too much, but you're certainly correct.
It is a real pity that good parts for old Harley transmissions are so hard to come by nowadays. I am totally on your side when you say "I took that thing apart anyways; let's replace all the stuff that wears". But in my experience it is very often better to buff the old stuff up and keep it. Especially when it comes to thrust plates and shims. A slightly scored OEM Harley thrust washer from 1965 out of a 50,000 mile Sportster transmission will still outlast the new aftermarket one if you hit that thing with some 1000 grit on the surface plate.....
I don't know about now, but all of those shims and spacers (at least the ones I knew of) came from Bender Cycle in a far away land known as Cleveland Ohio. Contact them and ask. You may have gotten something funky when there's better stuff available.
Greetings Mike! This is David up in Atwater, California. I'm a fan, and I have watched most of your vids. I am doing my first transmission now. It's a pretty decent 65 4 speed out of my 75 Fx Harley. It's been in the bike forever and has always operated perfectly. What it began to do is not stay in 4th gear. Sometimes it would go in fine, and stay in gear with no problem. But once in a while it will not stay in 4th. No other symptoms. No noises or grinding or anything unusual. Nothing in the fluid either. Fluids perfect. So it just doesn't want to stay in 4th sometimes. I can't get a hint anywhere or from anyone as to what it could be. I like to at least have a hint as to what is wrong before I begin a job, ya know? Will you please tell me what you think. about why it might not want to remain in 4th gear like that? So keep up the good work Mike! I hold you in high regard and I hope I run into you at the swaps in the future.
Once the trans is out, it's probably not a big deal. Forks have to be set right. Things have to be spaced and held in place properly. You'll need to buy or borrow the fixture to "time" the forks. The only problem is, once you take it apart, you'll want to freshen up everything inside the trans. It's really nice when you're done. I haven't done any swap meets up north in a long time. Probably need to do that. I try to make Long Beach every couple of months and just did Chopperfest. We'll run into each other.
Mike help me! Swapping cases, I took the original race that fit my mainshaft and needle bearings, pressed it into my replacement case and it seems to have shrunk maybe a thou! I can’t fit 4th gear in by pressing, I have to pursuance it in with a mallet! What should I do! I don’t want to leave a bearing out but should I be skeptical about having someone honing it and doing it straight and right? Some people have said that’s not typical
That's the way I do it. If standard rollers are too tight, take it to a machinist with a Hone. In the old days, every motorcycle shop had a Sunnen hone.
Thank you
You're quite welcome.
ok, now that I am fitting and setting end play, I see a spec for gear backlash as .003-.006 - how would that be checked - and how to change if necessary?
In the old days, they started with a bunch of gears and did trial and error fits. Some times you kinda have to fake it.
Mike I have a question. I completed my S&S shovel engine build this week and ordered my frame. I have 90 days until my frame arrives and in that time I am going to build a 4 speed transmission - all new. I like to punish myself searching for parts and assembling stuff. I do not know whether I should go ratchet top or rotary - I found a new ratchet top case but wanted to get your opinion if rotary would provide some kind of noticeable performance or maintenance benefit?
Ratchet lid transmission is the best. Rotary tops wear quickly and get sloppy.
@@pacificmike9501 Thank you, Sir. I trust your advice - I did pick up the FX style ratchet top and will be watching your 4 spd vids as I assemble
Cool. Remember, the lids don't interchange. Rotary lid and ratchet lid trans cases are different from each other. Then there's jocky lids. They fit where a ratchet lid will.
@@pacificmike9501 I did not know that - I am sticking to 78-79 FX ratchet top style with suicide and foot clutch. Been watching your 4 speed video and Frank K (rip) videos and I have a great deal to learn. The theme of this bike will be from 1976 - with the color and select imagery from 2112. I hope to heck to be riding it by summer. In the meantime we will see you out there on Merlin (‘01 fxst) and The Ram (‘02 Ironhorse Slammer).
Any recommended transmission oils for the 40s WL three bolts?
Modern gearlubes are certainly superior to the old ones. The old Harley service manuals recommend the same as the motor oil you're running. Most of the people I know run a leading brand of 85/140.
Do the 1940s three bolt transmissions have a drain plug? I have heard different stories from different people. I see a bolt at the back bottom of the transmission that looks like it might be a drain plug.
Not as far as I know. What does your manual say on changing transmission oil?
@@pacificmike9501 I have two WLA era manuals and a maintenance manual. They only have the rider check the tranny oil, not change it. After quite a bit if poking around, I did find a drain plug at the back bottom of the case. But, it is tight against the frame and sits below the access hole. Evidently the frame and tranny are from different years. So, the military lean-it-on-it's-side maneuver was employed. No need to work on my dead lift at the gym. Now, i just need to find out why it no longer will downshift from 3rd. Adjusting the clutch eight-ways-from-Sunday did not help.
Every once in a while, I must admit I don't know. There are people out there that specialize in 45 transmissions. One of the reasons I have several different kinds of Harleys is so I could live with them and learn. 46 years with my Shovelhead has taught me Shovelheads. 32 years with my Panhead has taught me Panheads. Okay, I'm old. I had another Panhead before my current one. But, I've never owned a 45. The transmissions require the use of tools I don't even have. But again, there are people out there that know them well.
I'm limited here.
Mike I'm trying to put a new drive gear spacer on my pan the new spacer won't go over the splines it slides over the threads fine but the splines are .02 " bigger than the spacer
All I can think of is you may be mixing and matching years.
@@pacificmike9501 That's what I thought so a checked the list of compatible bikes and they used the same spacer from 1937 to 1967 .
Mike, can I check my shifter forks with the trans in the bike?1999 Flhtp
Yes. After removing the starter, the tranmission lid can be removed.
Thanks 😊
Not looking for an endorsement... but curious where you buy a new 4 speed transmission?
V-Twin (Tedd Cycle) carries them in most descriptions.
I just found you so this may sound like a dumb question but is there any difference between a 50 and a 65 transmission case.
Yes. There are a few small differences. The only big difference (other than the "ratchet lid," (50 was a "hand shift"), the 65 case is different, to mate with the 65 inner primary to support the electric starter. 65 was the first big twin Harley with an electric starter.
@@pacificmike9501 Thank you the 48 case I have could become a spare transmission for my 65. I have some suspicions about the main shaft. and was wondering about turning it into a spare. So now I'll just take it out and check and replace any thing that's going bad. I'm planing on changing the front end out for a deuce 04 to get a front brake on her. It's on a rigid frame and I bought it as a partially complete bobber. I'm looking forward to viewing your videos this winter wile I work on her and a V-rod that I want to change around so it's stable at higher speeds. I am so glad I found your site. I'm retired now and the last grand child has moved out so I'll be able to work on things in the living room as the garage is not heated. Thank You again Mike from Maryland
Thank You. I know it gets cold there. Enjoy your Summer. Sounds like you've got enough projects to keep you busy all Winter.
My 4 speed will not go into neutral?? Where should I start??
Is this when you're stopped, or moving? Is this a jockey lid, ratchet top or rotary lid? Probably have to remove the lid, which means removing the transmission.