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Differences Between T5 Non World Class and T5 World Class 5 Speed Transmissions
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2023
- The differences between the Borg Warner T5 Non World Class and T5 World class 5 speed transmissions are explained in PART II of my T5 NWC rebuild video. Paul Cangialosi discusses what parts are and are not interchangable between both platforms.
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disclaimer:
The content of this video is available for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to be a substitute for the professional advice of a mechanic who has personally inspected your vehicle, nor does it create a relationship of any kind between GearBoxVideo (Paul Cangialosi) and you. Every situation may be different, and GearBoxVideo does not make any warranties, whether express or implied, as to the accuracy, fitness, or applicability of the information or automotive parts portrayed in this video to any project and makes no guarantee of results. GearBoxVideo and any sponsors or manufacturers of parts that may appear in this video or any of the channel's content will not be liable for any damages related to personal injury, property damage or loss of any kind that may result from the use or reliance on this video and/or any automotive parts represented in this video. You are using the information and automotive parts portrayed in this video solely at your own risk.
I noticed at about 16 min mark, when you were explaining the easiest way to identify between the 2 transmissions, you said that both are NWC bearings. I know it was just a slip of the tongue, but which is which? Thanks for all the great information you share about these transmissions. Ive been running them in pretty much every build since the early 2000's.
The first one is a NWC bearing....thanks for pointing that out. Ive pinned your comment.
As a T5 owner myself in a 91 Mustang I truly appreciate your videos my man!!!
The King of GearBoxes is back!
I remember in the early '90s doing some trans rebuilds for Ross Perot, and he always insisted on everything being "World Class." 👍🏁
Wealth of information! I just received your Muncie book look forward to meeting you in the future to get it signed!
Everything I know about the T5 Ive learned researching Pauls knowledge and experience. Thanks Paul 😎
great break down! now I feel broke in! very helpful !!
Great Video Mr. Cangialosi. Very concise and educational. Thank You!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video, great information, you do a super job . Thank you !
The legend returns with another great video!
I am happy to see You again!!
Love this channel. Thanks man!
Congrats on the 100K subs, and as always, tons of useful info.
Congratulations Paul on hitting a milestone. Thank you for the Super T10 rebuild kit. I have it installed and running perfectly. Made the trans strong. I get the tires spinning even in 3rd gear with a 3.42 rear end gear. Keep up the great content.
Congrats on your Silver Play Button Paul!!
This was a great video, there's really good info in here that answers a lot of common questions. :)
I want tio say Thanks for your great videos you produce,I just subscribed Im getting ready to try and tackle my first T5 Rebuild 3rd gear went south on me in my Fox body Im a retired DIY guy and i just ordered your book off Amazon
Awesome info!
Congratulations on the 100,000 .
Congratulations, Paul! Old school here. The T-10 & Hurst videos got me hooked. Not many guys left that know them well. Keep on keeping on & thanks for sharing. Picking up one of your books soon👍
Thank you for the video and the great information.
paul very good explained.
Congrats on the 100K Subs Paul! You've been an invaluable Teacher/reference for many of us 5.0L guys. All of your videos are easy to follow and you are well-spoken. An asset for every skill level.
Thank you
Thanks Paul! I’m still enjoying the overdrive gears I bought from you years ago. Your T5 rebuild videos are simply invaluable. Appreciate you!
Glad you like them!
Fabulous! I learned a lot. Thank you!
You are so welcome!
Good for you with 100K. You are the best channel for learning how to rebuild trannys. My Ford T9 is working great because of your tips.
Thank you
fantastic tutorial !
Every time I watch your videos I am becoming mechanically independent, god bless!!
I bought the stuff to build my Muncie 4 speed off Paul. Learned a lot from what he’s taught in videos and built a stout transmission for my Camaro.
I like your video, Thanks for sharing!👍👍
lots of great information thank you
Congrats on the 100k. I know the coverage on the convention
Thanks Paul as always excellent information,the average guy like me can understand
Great video, very informative👍
Glad you think so!
amazing info
You're a true master. You've forgotten more than 99% of us will ever know.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with me😊
So nice of you
@@GearBoxVideo you have definitely awesome knowledge when it comes to gearboxes thank you 4 sharing
Thank You!
Paul in the fuken transmission guru.watched tons of his videos and rebuilt mine off his videos.Amazing stuff.
I found your Videos on Doug Nash 5 speeds and you finally solved the Mystery of why my Dough Nash 5 speed shifts so slow. I replaced a Diaphragm Clutch with a Borg & Beck Clutch and it made no difference. I shifted from 1st to 3rd once in a Drag race and really hurt the third gear synchro.. I just double clutch 3rd gear now.
It sounds like you sell much better upgraded Synchro's for the Doug Nash 5 speed. Plus it has always leaked since the day I Installed it .
Lol I think I'm the 100 k subscriber🎉 pleasure to help you make it because it's been a pleasure to watch some of your videos on the Muncie and the Hurst shifter competition Plus. 👍
Thank you
hope ur well and in good health
Thank you.
Great video Paul, I’ve watched a few of your T5 videos and was able to tear down and check two I have here a 95 Firebird WC and a 90 s10 NWC. My question is the s10 has a 14 spline input which does not give much clutch options. We plan to put this transmission in a LS swap which we would be using either a LS1 clutch or a 70 big block clutch 26 spline. This would allow us to upgrade in the future to the WC Firebird transmission (if we could find a gm case to put the internal into) or a T56. What do you suggest for an input shaft swap for 26 spline and 21 tooth? Thanks again Paul!
Thanks Paul. Fantastic Video. You covered it all! With your help, I have torn down a NWC T-5. Do you find most of your hours are spent cleaning, inspecting and reworking? I spent 12 hours cleaning each individual piece and inspecting under a bright light. I dressed all the burrs and dings in all the gears. Found broken tab on 1-2 shift fork, chewed up reverse idler gear, and severely worn first and second gear synchro-blocker rings. The gears look great...a little rounded on the points...but very useable. I painted the case, cover and adapter housing yesterday. Just waiting for the overhaul kit and new parts before assembly. Therefore, to say the least, I am looking forward to your assembly video of the NWC. I am literally walking in your footsteps and definitely owe you a cup of coffee. Thanks for your expertise and prompt replies to my many inquiries. I am honored to be one of your 100,000 subscribers.
Cleaning and prep took the longest
I have a Nissan ZXT NWC that I haven’t started but will soon!
You just might inspire me to try rebuilding my NWC T5! It’s been making a weird clicking noise when driving (if I push the clutch the ticking slows down) and sometimes it goes away completely once warmed. Comes and goes, doesn’t matter which gear but the pace of the ticking changes with the RPM. It’s really got me confused! I changed the pilot bearing and throwout bearing last year and forgot to put grease between the input shaft and the throw out bearing, but the housing for the throwout bearing was plastic so I figured that can’t be the noise I’m hearing. Maybe it’s the bearings for the input shaft? It drives completely fine! But the clicking/ticking noise terrifies me. It’s just behind a stock 305, it’s never had grippy tires on it. The trans does have a leak though, I’ve been topping it up often but it could’ve been driven with low fluid levels at some point.
Good information sharing, thank you. I think you focus on American style manual transmissions, have you considered branching out to also cover Porsche 915 transaxle?
Ive built porshe transaxles. I would do a video on anything if I had that stuff come in my shop. Its not that I focus on that genre its just that people arent going to ship me one and parts are problematic. Also videos take longer to produce.... That is if you want a quality video and most of the jobs I do are time sensitive
1st Murfreesboro Tennessee view
Not far from ya down here in Manchester!!!
Say hi to Uncle Tony for us!
Who is uncle Tony? My uncle Tony has been dead for 20 years
@@GearBoxVideo I was referring to the Murfreesboro comment. "Uncle Tony's Garage" is a UA-cam channel that's been pretty popular over the last few years. You guys should collaborate on some stuff.
You have been missed!!!
First off, amazing channel im glad i found it and you now have a new subscriber. My question is i have an 87 Thunderbird turbocoupe with the wc t5. Under high rpm and boost it grinds bad going from 2-3 enough to where i have to double clutch to avoid it. Im assumint synchro is shot? And or fork. I've rebuilt 3 speed autos years ago but have never torn into a manual. I am going to be doing it myself with your videos to guide me along. Does my symptom sound like its caused by what parts i mentioned? It does not grind at all under normal to medium acceleration. Thanks!
Yes probably the ring is shot. But you may also want to try and give yourself more clutch release. It's possible at the higher RPM that the clutch is dragging enough to cause a grind.
@@GearBoxVideo thank you I appreciate the advice! Again great channel keep it up!
It would be nice to see some t56 rebuilds , face plate & stage 3., thanks
Send me a transmission!
While doing an S-10 NWC tail housing conversion on my Ford WC box, the oil funnels are different sizes. Should the WC funnel stay in the with WC cluster shaft? Also it seems to fit fine without machining the inside of the tail housing. I did remove the reverse brake tab. Thanks.
Yes leave the wc funnel in and eliminate the NWC stuff
Yewww Paul 🥳🥂🤙🏻 You would have 10 million if you were like the rest of “BotTube” 100k > 200k soon enough! Nice work my friend!
Thanks Paul for more info.
I’m rebuilding a T5 NWC thanks to you.
It’s an 85 from a cj7 Jeep we are restoring with my son.
Got your book and subscribed a while back.
Have a question on the fifth gear slide assembly.
Is there a trick to put the keys in.?
Do you take out the retainer plate, place the keys like you showed on the others then
Place the retainer back?
Thanks again,
Yes, that is what I do.
@@GearBoxVideo thanks Paul, I see you don’t sell rebuilt kits on your site.
I would prefer buying the kit from you
Kits are coming
Always good info, any chance of a video on the M5ODR2?
Send me one...
@@GearBoxVideo at this point the ones in my Bronco and F-150 are still getting the job done, and I bet shipping from Oregon to Florida is a fist full of cash!!??
About 150
I just subscribed to your channel good information but my question is I'm installing a non world-class S10 rear housing onto a world-class front Camaro housing It does not have the reverse brake can I install the rear S10 housing without doing any machining in the area of the oil slinger. thanks Dave
yes you can. usually the WC funnel will clear and if you have a reverse brake, cut the tab off
Thanks, Paul for answering the question in regards to swapping input shafts. My plan is to upgrade my NWC T5 to a WC T5 and want to use the input shaft with course spine from my NWC so I do not have to change the clutch plate that is on a Chevy 3.1 V6. When you mentioned the difference between the NWC and WC main shaft I take it the output shaft end splines are identical?
Output spline are the same.
@@GearBoxVideo One more question. My NWC T 5 input shaft has 21 teeth and the GM WC input shafts have 24 teeth. Will this be a problem? Thanks again for your educational Videos. Looking forward to rebuilding a GM WC T5.
@Blueomicron rewatch the vid... he said your input swap has to have the same tooth angle, pitch, and count. Now think about it, assuming your tooth profiles match, a lower tooth count has to be a smaller diameter gear. If your diameters match, the profiles have to be different. Either way, you end up with gears that won't work together
Nice info. Did you do this a few years ago? 🙂
No
I have a C4 Corvette with the Doug Nash 4+3 Manual transmission 1985 the transmission is stuck in Reverse gear I have exposed the shifter but cannot see the adjustment bolt to adjust the reverse lockout. ? Can you help.
If you cannot physically go under the car, disconnect the rev rod and manually pull it out, then the issue is in the trans . Often times the OD seal will pop out and land behind the rev gear. Think it thru and remove the linkage first
Plz do mt82 rebuilt
So can you put world class main and gears into nwc case? I'm trying to figure out how to make my borg warner t5 handle more. The engine I'm building will be putting dowon about 500hp. scared my stock t5 is gonna blow. I was looking into g-force gear set but days world class only. So if I get that and main shaft would it work or would I need a wc case also?
Just get a TKX 5speed. The concept of putting used 20 year old gears that were designed for a 250 HP application and expect to "beef it up" to handle 500hp will just fail in the long run. The NWC lower end and gears started failing and were replaced by a more stable World class lower end. Therefore I cannot recommend you doing this
I WAS SPEED & POWER SHIFTING THESE ON BIG & SMALL BLOCKS IN 1965...
~
Im sure you weren't talking about the T5 since they didn't exist back then... Something else?
What fluid goes in a Mustang GT 2005 TR3650 trans? I want to do a fluid change as my car is 18 years old, though it only has 25k miles. The trans has always been noisy since it was new. Anything to quiet it down?
So much conflicting info. on fluid out there. DexIII/merc then mercV but then it's mobil1 ATF or synchromesh and there are just as many people against using it. Then there's the fill....3.8 or 3.2 quarts.
I know you're the one that knows how these work and what's right for them.
Ive always used a good synthetic synchromesh like Royal Purple Synchromax
Do you have any videos on the srod rug 4 speed transmission? I can't seem to find any anywhere.
Pretty much the same as the top load of four speed except that the rail mechanism is different. I do not have any specific videos on the SROD
I'm doing and s10 conversion on my wc box, what I want to know is how do I compensate for the speedometer location, all the versions I know of have different locations. Are there easy bolt on gears or does the shaft have to be moddified to work with the new location? 2 wire Electronic speedometer btw
You would use the digital drive wc st10 mainshaft. The tail can only be used with a digital drive . Will not work with a mechanical drive1
How do I know if the Tremec 13-52-065-922 gearbox is what I use on the RF troller?
whether WC or STD without opening the gearbox,
The numbers on the side of the case are just casting numbers for a case. The actual model number is stamped on a tag located on the extension housing
Any content on the New Venture 3500 from the 2nd gen s10 or the silverados in the works?
No, because none have come into the shop. Also, usually when these did come into the shop the people need it repaired right away and not enough time to do a video. So it's not going to happen
I have a T5 NWC in my 1981 CJ7 . someone before I got it replaced the shifter bushing on the transmission ,, well they beeped it up ,, I was driving and the shifter jammed up .. took out the tranny found a chunk of the old plastic bushing and half a lock washer in the shift pattern in the grease ..it shifted ok with a punch in the shift rail .. but when I reinstalled the tranny ,, very hard too shift ,, I don't know if the shift rail the long rod part could have bent ..like I said with out the shifter and the off set part it works ?? could the shifter be pushing down too hard or the shift rail bent ?? great video ,,too me I thought both the nwc and the wc box's were the same ,,
The roll pin for the offset lever may be driven too far or the pattern plate got loose and needs to be pressed in deeper.
SORRY to reask, at 16 min, i am con-fused about WC and NWC bearing.. did you make a small slip up?, thank you for your videos, i appreciate them, but got to say right there i got a bit confused. just to be clear, shiney is NWC and tappered gray looking is WC ? correct?
LOL, just noticed the pinned msg..lol, same thing i asked, ignore, sorry to ask, my bad.
Yes take the time to read other comments and pinned comments
Can't find any information on an Aussie Ford Faclon Au t5 2001 model whether its a world class gearbox or non world class. Would you happen to know by any chance?
Thanks
Chris
They were world class boxes. I had a decwnt amount of gears for thise at one time
Thankyou for the reply , the only result I found just know on a forum was that the Aussie Ford Au, V8 motor t5 had the world class where the v6 motor t5 had the non world class. Its a tricky situation .
Are the shift forks the same between the WC and the NWC T5s?
Yes
I have a WC T5 from a 93 mustang.
It grinds going from 1-2 only when cold
ATF fluid , it I noticed it has aluminum looking swirls in the fluid.
Once warmed up it shifts great .
Could this be worn shift fork and synchro?
Usually a fork is worn. But warm of cold should not matter. Trans should take ATF Dexron fluid
@@GearBoxVideo thanks for replying to me.
I have Dexron ATF in it.
Is there any way to inspect the synchro with the top cover off when I am checking the fork without pulling the main shaft out?
Yes, see if they are flat against the gear. Look at the height of 1st compared to 2nd
Got interesting question I have t5 from s10. CAN I use the transmission for 4.3 if I get different bell housing like on v8 far I as know it's 89 t5
I informed got its from 2.8
Some of the input shafts are longer. You will have to measure and figure it out
@@GearBoxVideo ok thank. So much
Is the S10 T-5 NWC or WC?
Can an S10 T-5 live behind a 500-600hp LS with upgrades?
Can I make a WC an S10 T-5?
The truck will be autocrossing and street driving mainly with occasional drag racing for fun.
Thanks Paul, you have a tremendous body of work that I hope to someday retain some of it.
The transmission was never intended to be used with that type of horsepower. The ratios are designed for 6 and 4 cylinder engines so I would not recommend using this transmission for that application. They came in both nonwc and WC configurations.
@@GearBoxVideo thank you for your valuable time sir. Thank you for ALL that you have done for the industry.
What are power ratings if these with basic upgrades?
There are none
can you take a WC 2.3 mustang and swap out the 1st gear to a 5.0 or any of the 5 gears for that matter ?
No, completely different gear set
@@GearBoxVideo so could you swap the whole internals into a mustang 4 cyl t5 case and make it a 5.0 t5? Or are there differences in the case itself
No case differences. So you can swap complete internals. Outpit shaft is the same
Paul which cars have the world-class 5-speed were they GM's were they Fords or are they trucks .????
Camaro, s10,firebird, TVR, mustang, tbird, Ssang
Pls tell me. Are ther 6cl and V8 T5,s the same or interchangeable . Mike
complete gearsets are... different ratios
@@GearBoxVideo Ok, good to know. By the way, Your gearbox shows are awsome, thankyou. Mike
The world class t5 has a little more of an heavy duty case and it has fiber lined blocking rings .
Not really. As shown in the video if you watch it to the end . At one point Borg Warner actually used the same case and machined that differently. This is shown that the non-world class case has the bosses already in place for the retainer plate holes that the world class model uses. Structural web improvements on the front face of the case were done first on the non-world class units and then migrated to the world class models
Thanks, Paul, for this informative video. I have read about the differences between the NWC and WC transmissions,
but seeing the video really makes it all clear.
Do any of these differences affect the choice of transmission fluid? I use Pennzoil Synchromesh in my 1987 Camaro
(NWC T5), and the shifting is quite smooth. But there seems to be a lot of debate/confusion on the Internet about T5 fluids
(especially for the NWC).
I always used the latest edition of Dexron back in the 2000s, but I think the latest versions are not well suited to manual transmissions. Redline sells a manual transmission lube for manual transmissions spec'd to use ATF as their lubricant.
They never took gear lube. Original NWC and WC had stickers on the case that said use ATF only. The Pennzoil synchromesh works great as well as Royal Purple SynchroMax. Ive run Mobil One multi purpose ATF for years in all of our endurance boxes before brands started formulating specific types.
@@GearBoxVideo Thanks for the info! It's reassuring to hear it from a real expert!
It's worth noting that cases that people fill with normal gear lube and ignore the advice to use ATF, as specified, may be very hard to shift when cold. Depending on the type of lube dumped in, it may damage bushing material, too. There is also the possibility they will run hot depending on how thick the gear lube was and how hard you run the transmission.
Despite the name (of the fluid) the BW/Tremec T5 and many other light duty manual transmissions, both foreign and domestic, were designed to use ATF, which throws a lot of people off especially if they are used to old 3 and 4 speeds.
One thing often overlooked is clearances. The journal clearances are tighter then older 90wt units. That is why you see seizures when using gearlube. A very common failure
Do you know of any Phoenix Arizona Muncie rebuilders? Have an M20 needs rebuild
No I don't
Ok, thanks for the informative videos
I’m picking up a NWC T5 for my 66 mustang, $300 think that’s worth it? I don’t plan on making over 300whp with the 289 ever.
Worth it if it doesn't need rebuilding, because you don't know what's wrong with it until you open it. The other thing is you have to factor in the cost of a conversion kit
@@GearBoxVideo it turned out to be a 4cyl world class box, I picked it up for 200 after negotiating. So now I need a gear set and rebuild. (Winter project) any recommendations for parts what/where to buy?
Oem gears are super expensive. People selling aftermarket gears from Taiwan are your best bet
Another guy recently posted a video talking about how the only WC blocker rings available on the market right now do not fit properly. Any truth to this? I need a set and have been putting it off till I confirm. Thx!
There are aftermarket rings that do not fit correctly. The original rings from Tremec do. Problem is people will only buy the cheap stuff now because the cars are not worth it... As a result it is hard to justify stocking large quantities of original equipment parts when the majority of your customer base would rather by the cheap junk . One of the reasons I don't have kits yet
@GearBoxVideo is Tremec still producing them? Or do they just do limited/occasional runs? The price of Tremec rings used to be petty high. In today's market, those prices seem reasonable (unless Tremec raises prices even higher, which is definitely possible). Having said that, if someone contacts you looking for new blocker rings, what do you tell them? Are they SOL or can they wait it out?
I dont have any and will not sell aftermarket T5 parts. That is what I say
how do I confirm gear ratio of a 1352-232
I would not know
Mark the input and output shafts , in 1st gear rotate the the input shaft however many revolutions to make the output turn 1 rev and that tells u yur first gear ratio, that tells u what set u hav.
Hello, how can I contact you privately? Thank you
Take the time to read the video description
the way I could tell was if I could brake 3rd gear within 3 day verse maybe 3 months...
Too much input, gonna have to watch this a couple times lol!
👀👂👍🏽🏁🏁🏁
Hi Paul
I change that I use tremec t5 I have doubts if it is word class e or STD.
Identification
Box 13-52-065-922
identification label: (aluminum label screwed to the box)
J3091 4408-3
204530 3205003
Hi, the channel is incredible.
I want to buy repair kit for Tremec T5 WC 13-52-065-922 (synchronized)
It has an indication of an online store.
I am from Brazil
We currently do not ship those because we are no longer doing international shipments