Get more of me, James Drone Visit: www.JamesDrone.com for all my synthesizer music, synth patches and social media connections. I shop for synthesizers here: www.zzounds.com/a--3960121/
None of the “Clones” are really exact clones. They have additional patch points that improve the flexibility of the circuits over the originals. They are smaller than the originals, too, so they are portable. I usually take one with me on vacation. If someone wants to make a well-rounded studio of mono synths, they can pick up a Behringer D, Pro-One, MS 20 and Neutron all together for less than a grand if they watch the sales. When they are not being used, put them in a closet for later. The mistake people make is when they get bored with gear, they sell it right away at a loss to get the latest gizmo with bells and whistles. Then they hear someone do an amazing recording with a particular piece of gear and realize it could do a lot more than they though. The polys will be here eventually and Behringer is working on some new super-secret sauce original gear. When these things arrive, some people will love them and some will hate them. Behringer gear will never be good enough for some people just like a Kia or even a Ford will not be good enough for some people. Just make make music with the gear you have and be happy.
@@vaiman7777 I end up buying a Novation Summit. Fantastic synth just like the Sequential. I still want a UB-Xa so I'm using Arturias version which does sound really good...
My partner got me an odyssey for £400 new for xmas last year. It’s taken me a few months to get used to but I love it. Also the model D is just amazing for the money. I can’t deny the Behringer synths I have are staying exactly where they are in my setup.
I think the reason for the menu-diving in the DeepMind is the fact that they gave you enough hands-on controls to get you started and make a wide variety of sounds (Juno-like, wink wink) but they tucked away the more advanced features that you might use less often for when you need them. Personally I think it was an acceptable design decision.
Yeah, personally I think the menu diving isn't really all that bad on the DM. I mean, there's a button under each fader to go into its respective menu. Plus they didn't convolute matters with subfolders and such. Pretty straightforward for such a deep synth if you ask me.
Thanks, James, for an interesting commentary. Being very space-challenged in my studio, I have more modules than synths with keyboards, and my modules include the Behringer Model-D and the Neutron. For me, they are lovely-sounding machines with some nice features like Eurorack-type patch points and they don't consume much space. I happen to enjoy some monosynths but I like polysynths too and totally get why you prefer the latter. The more voices the merrier, of course. I also have a DM12 and love it. For me, it is in no way a "fail." I don't mind at all that the DM12 doesn't look like a Juno, but that could be because I've never owned a Juno. I more recently got a Poly-D and enjoy that too, despite the fact that it's actually para and not poly. For me, it is like having a souped-up little Minimoog with a nice chorus effect and stereo output. Since I'll never be able to justify spending 3 grand on a real Minimoog, this is probably the closest I will ever get to owning one of those. Like many people, I eagerly anticipate getting my hands on a UBXa. I hope it reaches the marketplace during my lifetime! Behringer's proposed 2600 intrigues me too. For me, a real "fail for Behringer would be dangling these prototypes of the 2600 and UBXa in front of us only to kill those projects and never deliver on them. That would be flat-out sad.
I think Behringer should sell an inexpensive keyboard module chassis, that way you could take one or two synth modules (or one plus a couple of smaller rack items like oscillators or sequencers) and plop it into a keyboard frame. Currently it's kinda frustrating having to power a keyboard and a module separately, and then hook them up with an extra midi cable, which makes integration into a larger setup via midi difficult.
Sir, while the patents on the circuitry of classic analog synths may have long lapsed, the names, colors, panel layout, panel marking fonts and style may be legally protected under "trade dress".
I purchased the Poly D and I returned it mainly because of the knobs and feel of keys. The keys felt like they were going to break I got in a good groove and they made a weird clicking sound on some of the keys. The knobs were all loose and would swivel on any setting they were locked on. It just felt cheep overall and I would have rather them made a stronger build and sold for closer to 1k and I would have bought it with no change to the sound quality.
I'm late to the party watching this video, but thought it worth pointing out that not everybody wants or needs the additional keybeds. I control everything from a master keyboard or sequencer, so the keyboard is really just unnecessary extra cost and space. I have in the past owned original versions of many of the synths behringer are recreating and they took up an enormous amount of space while being controlled predominantly via sequencing. When children came along I had to downsize to make space which meant going in the box for a long time, but as I've got back into making music with hardware the options to keep it small are what appeals most to me and the low prices for the behringer gear are a welcome bonus. Behringer are not the only synth manufacturers in my arsenal, I have a bunch of small desktop modules and synths from Roland, Waldorf, Korg, IK, Modal, and they were all chosen for a combination of sounds, features and importantly size/form factor. One thing that put me off the Odyssey clone was the keyboard. Likewise the 101 clone. Maybe a smarter move for behringer would be to introduce a controller keyboard unit with a space to insert your choice of desktop synth module skin to the Roland boutique idea. That way you can pay the extra cost for a keybed if you really want it and aren't lumbered with hardware you never use it not.
One solution. Behringer should build a keybed and casing, such as the one used for the poly D that their modules can be bolted onto. Build everything in module/desktop form, sell the cases separately. Maybe even make a few different colored cases, some with a dark stain, some in black, some like the poly D color. Build the modules so that you can easily remove the wooden end end cheeks and then they will drop right into the casing. Now, some of the modules/desktops they are building are different lengths I have found.They should have taken the largest size and made all the modules/desktops that one size. I also agree that whatever they clone should look like the original. A Jupiter 8 is a gorgeous synth, I can't imagine cloning that and making it look different.
I think marketing clones so aggressively was their first mistake. If they released their synths as original designs simply INSPIRED by classic synths and not outright targeting specific models, there wouldn’t be the weight of customer expectations. Musicians could still get the sounds and feel of a synth they liked without the constant comparisons. In the synth world as soon as something is billed as a clone it falls into immediate scrutiny! So build something new! Even budget synths can become classics in their own right if they are good designs!
Their sales are through the roof regardless of scrutiny and or the bashing though. Clearly people want them the way they are. Sales=success as a company. That's not a mistake, that's the point of being a company that sells things. The marketing worked. Also, personally I wanted exact clones at a fair price. The more exact the better but I'll take what I can get. There's already so many inspired and original new synths available and coming out. This is what was missing for people like me. They're currently working on a couple more originals anyways and they will eventually run out stuff to clone. I think the clones is part giving the people what they want and part Behringer learning all they can about building synths. I think they're going to surprise everyone in the near future.
I agree, I think the DM12 and Neutron are their best synths to date, simply because they aren't trying to be exact clones of anything else. Obviously, as pointed out, a lot of people do enjoy their clones, and they are selling well. I just hope they will go back and design something original again in the future - maybe a digital/analog hybrid polysynth, kind of like the Prophet X or Quantum, but without exactly copying either.
I agree with you 100%, I'm not a behringer hater by any means, I had the Behringer model D it sounded very good but what you didn't get was the Moog experience. It was fidgety to use, small knobs, simple tasks like adding a subtle vibrato was annoying. Then it brings me to the point how many mono synths do you need in your studio, what is the point of having 10-20 mono synths? As most of them are modules they are intended for the studio or modular rack. For me I have 3 mono synths that's enough, I don't need a CAT, K2, SH101, Pro one etc..... they are all just mono synths that more or less do the same thing just have a bit different character of sound and some own individual quirks. Also if Behringer are serious about cloning classic poly synths and MPCs they really need to improve their firmware, as it is not good.
What they should release are keyboards that will hold their modules. Like what Roland have for their boutique series. But rather than just a small keyboard the size of the module, they could offer, 37, 49, or 61 key variants. That way everyone would be happy. Maybe they could even do a version with a big enough keyboard that would hold multiple modules which could switch between them? I'm sure live players would find that useful.
Hello, I agreed and disagree with you. I own many vintage synths including Moogs, Oberheims, Rolands and Korgs. I also own many Behringer synths including the Deepmind 12 polychained to 4 rack Deepmind 12's. I recently purchased the Poly D which gives the Moog Voyager and Matriarch a run for their money. Though there is probably no match for my Moog One 16 voice unit "Yet", there is a comparable match to the OB-8/OBXa. The fact Behringer is one of the first to clone an almost identical 3340CEM VCO is pretty amazing in itself. Behringer has put out the mono version of an Oberheim one voice known as the Neutron which can be polychained to create an 8 voice version of an OB-8 or closer to an OBXa. Thus they are in process of releasing the UBXa, which you, not being a mono synth person, may find interesting. Like you, I have several rooms full of synthesizers, both poly and mono, close to 100 to be more specific. You're correct on the vintage circuitry being a bit more fat or aggressive, but there are added features in most of these newer Behringer synths that enhance the performance, sometimes better than the originals. It is also amazing the price point on where these units fall. Most people that never owned synths or could not afford to have the hobby that we do, can now expand their pallet. In fact, maybe to the point of owning the originals. It has always been an argument of mine being an oscillator engineer, owning something because there are few of them, for the "Name" value, just to say you have one, or owning something you can actually create music with instead of worshiping. Sure I have my synths I just like to look at and own, maybe play once and a while, but I also like the fact these newer low maintenance, reasonably priced units, that sound near identical to the originals, you can play knowing if something goes wrong, they have warranties!
Yeah when the Behringer Model D module came out i was super excited but also let down because it was just an expander without keys. And i don't consider expanders real instruments because to make them BECOME one you can actually play, you need a MIDI keyboard. So i waited. And boom, they announced the Poly D. Sure, it did cost at least 2x more but it also got a 4th oscillator, analog chorus, sequencer, Arpegiator and even a distortion unit. All put into a Minimoog Voyager looking flip panel case with aftertouch keys. And even though i would have rather loved to see the effect section of the Odyssey clone in the Poly D, i am still super happy with the Poly D and it was well worth the wait. To me it was the much better deal. Much closer to the original (especially if you don't use the chorus, distortion, Sequencer / Arp and also keep the 4th oscillator turned off) and still a LOT more affordable than let's say... a used MiniMoog Model D from the 70s... and much cheaper than a Minimoog Voyager or one of the super limited modern Model Ds that Moog sold a few years ago. I just wish they would also do a clone of the russian Polivoks station. I'm already drooling over the announced CS80 clone they gonna release :D
As others have said, Behringer is cashing in on the profits by all these modules that sound "good enough" and are cheap. That said, I REALLY hope they come out with a successor to the DM12. Heck, charge more, expand its capabilities, make it pretty, upgrade the keybed, less menu diving, poly aftertouch, etc etc. That would be a mic drop moment for Behringer. Not another clone (although I would jump all over a Behringer CS-80 clone).
I certainly don't mind what they look like as long as they are very functional and hands on. I also quite like modules, I’m going to control it with a sequencer in the end anyway. I don’t own any behringer.
Some are longer than others. The Neutron and K2 are the same length but longer than the Model D and the Cat which are also the same length of one another. So two different lengths.
I like their eurorack mini synths. The only one I have is the Model D, and I love it. I like the Odyssey too. Haven't played one yet, but I'm pretty sure I want one. Also, I am holding on to hope for a decent UBXa. Synth on y'all
I have there Odyssey, it's outstanding. I had the original in the late 70's...Behringers is actually better, what I mean is it's excellent effects and sequencer and midi implementation puts it ahead of the original...edpecialy as it sounds the same also. I wouldn't hesitate in purchasing it...for me it's the best they have done to date.
@@maydaygoingdown5602 I 'm looking at the Odyssey and KORG MINILOGUE XD but really want the Odyssey. Think the Odyssey first. Recently bought the Korg MS20 white full size and just love it! Also got the Korg Opsix and that thing is amazing but feels a bit cheap but stunning sound.
i honestly prefer the module setup, i only had formal training in guitar n learned some very basic piano from a friend n only know the base scales n not too well and 5th and minor 5th and 6th chords, n the keys start to sorta blend together at one point sooner or later, all that combined with my excessively large hands and long fingers (jumbo sized keys are even too small for comfort) but i like the pads bc its more trackable like frets on a guitar. was considering an Arturia Beatstep pro and a Behringer Pro1 but i got a minlogue module instead
I agree with your thesis that the look is really important. Imagine a sports car that performs, but does not look sporty. I'm not that big on the requirement of the keyboard ( I have plenty of modular gear w/o a dedicated keyboard). But ... the look is a really significant part of "gear lust". Another important part is how easy/hassle free the interface is. Knobs to small ... big fail. Menu diving ... ditto.
I'll never understand why people want keyboards on synthesizers, so much so that they don't even buy a synth without a keyboard. How many keyboards do you need? How many hands do you have? Just plug that thing into your most favorite keyboard, and youre done. You can control all of your dozen synthesizers with your one favorite keyboard.
Yeah, try telling Rick Wakeman that! I used to be like that, using my MKB-1000 to control everything, but it's limited. You want to be able to layer different keys without constantly switching midi channels. It's just more versatile
@@davejames885 yeah and as a non-keyboard player ( I mostly play drums) I think it looks cool on stage when the synth player has a few different synths they're playing at the same time
I never understood why people would want a synth WITHOUT a keyboard on. As a keyboard player I have all that rigging up midi cables and working out zones etc. Having a keyboard on a synth makes so much sense to me. I can have my left hand on the piano, right on the Hammond sound. Then reach up play the solo on the monosynth and go back to the Hammond. Otherwise I'd forever be taking my hand off switching presets play the sound then switch back. What a nightmare. Drummers have 2 or 3 (or more) toms. They don't have one then retune it between hits. In the studio you might only need one keyboard.
I can only speak for my self but I prefer synths with keyboards. I just got, from my wife as a birthday present, a Moog Grandmother. It was a toss up between it and a korg Wavestate. After much deliberation, I went with the Moog. I have a room full of Korgs including a kronos. I just felt it was time for a true analogue synth with no memory just to get me back to my roots. I'm glad I did! playing them all together sounds great!
1. You're dead on about the deepmind...had the look of a $2000 Juno made to look like a $99 Yamaha keyboard with that screen. 2. I like the modules & especially the cheaper price. Wood ends look classy & they are all stackable which is very retro looking attractive-they're basically the new Moog format(DFAM, Subharmonicon, Mother32) at half the price. 3. The are making near perfect full keyed clones with added functionality- Poly D, Monopoly, heck the SH-101 clone even comes with the keytar add on. All I own of behringer is the Neutron & love it, I will by the 2600 & I'm glad it's keyless for price & because I'm putting it in the breifcase lid of my Arp Solus.
@@emptyfame7141 haven't played it. I have the Juno60 & Polysix or I I would've picked one up for the price. Juat wish the screen was much smaller & maybe on the side.
I believe a good reason for Behringer to create synths without keyboards is we already have them. Most of us have a keyboard we like or like the keyboard and what feels good to one may not feel good to another. We have our midi controllers with aftertouch; some have mod-wheels, some have mod-strips, and some have joysticks, and almost all of us have the kind we prefer. By leaving the keyboard off Behringer doesn't run the risk of making a bad keyboard or making a keyboard that a segment of the market doesn't care for and are able to keep the synths at a lower price point.
note: this is written 1.5 years later: they're coming with a pro-16 for x-mas 2021... a prophet-5 clone with 16 polyphony, full keyboard, and probably extra tricks the keyboard part is expensive to manifacture, I think they're trying to build to a certain price here, and it seems to be working pretty well for them, they can't seem to make enough of any of them synths
I don't think Behringer have failed in any way, in fact I think they are selling a lot of units. However as a consumer it can be a bit frustrating when their products don't align with what you're looking for. It just seems a bit arbitrary which clones get keyboards and which don't. Why not have two standardized designs, one in module form and one in keyboard form, and release every clone in both variants? For me, patch memories are a must, though, which is why I only own the DM12 from Behringer. For a Minimoog-like synth, I went with the SE-02 instead. Sure a lot of people will say programming a Minimoog is quick and easy, but I just like being able to pick up exactly where I left off 2 weeks ago without first having to try to remember what I was doing.
Hi James, you seem a cool calm and reasonable commentator. Totally agree with you on this one. I am curious about your opinion on the behringer PolyD clone model D . I purchased 3 times because some glitches here and there including midi implementation with DAWs and some annoying plucking sound and even when all oscillators are off you still hear this annoying plucking thumping sound (?) and to solve this ( circuitry problem, IMO), you need to set the attack and decay of AD envelope at 20 ms at least, yet if you need a snappy attack for specific sound you will hear this annoying plucking underneath the actual sound you programmed... I like this PolyD it’s enjoyable and for the money you can’t go wrong... again 3 PolyDs? It doesn’t matter how many screen recordings, emails sent to developers... these issues are still there and there to be , hopefully, addressed. Thanks 😊
Well I haven't got my hands on a Poly D yet so I don't know. I did have tuning issues with my D and so bye bye it went. Keep tuned you never know what I might get my hands on over here! Synth ON!
With the exception of the TD-3, the only Behringer remakes that I own and regularly use are the MS-101 and the Odyssey, both having a really good keybed. As a player, I have to have that keyboard there in order to use it in my life setup.
You want the whole experience … not only the sound but also the touch. Maybe it’s better that behringer make their own synths :) . I hope to see a good looking synth (old style) and not a clone this time. Something new from behringer , real analog, 16 note polyphonic (minimum), prof keys with aftertouch … and with build in analog drumcomputer, sequencer, multitrack and several digital outputs 😊
Behrenger's big fail is ??? They made the Model-D module, which looks a lot like a Mini. Then they made the Poly-D which looks even more like a Mini, plus it has a keyboard. Both are apparently selling well. You mentioned their Odyssey clone yourself. In short, they are making a range of clones, many of which have keyboards and closely copy both the look and layout of the originals. They also have some non-clone systems and some modules, but I can't see this as a "fail". It's a product range and they sell a variety of synths to a variety of consumers. A Poly-D is a lot closer to a Mini than a Roland System 8 is to a Jupiter. So I just don't see any reason for criticism.
I agree with you, mate. "Big fail" is quite a harsh description of the awesomeness that Behringer is bringing to the synth world. I now have 6 different Behringer synths, some with keys others with CVs, and they ALL rock. Plus, I have also finally been able to delve into the eurorack realm with the Eurorack GO case. Personally? Can't complain is an understatement. Grateful beyond measure? That would be a more accurate description. ^_~
I wonder why they have cloned so many mono synths? Easier to reproduce or make? Would like to see other things other than them such as big poly synths and drum machines recreated.
Cloning old outdated synths with annoying limitations in their designs seems quite stupid. The synth market is glutted with too much stuff. Want an old synth, then buy one. There's plenty on the used market. If somebody wants a new analog poly, then there are companies that make them, and they're far more capable than old vintage stuff. Virtually nobody is creating anything worth listening to on synths these days anyway, so I can't understand why people are so particular about everything.
The Behringer Odyssey is an excellent keyboard. I am basically a polyphony guy too but the Odyssey has its place of prominence in my rig especially for sound effects. The modules fit the need for most people who don't have the space that you or I enjoy, so I get that. I won't fault Behringer for their strategy. It is a winning business model even if it doesn't meet your preferences. Can't wait for their UB-Xa.
You know you can buy 3rd party overlays for the DM12 which make it look like the Juno 106? Personally, I prefer the way it looks already, but sounds like you might be interested in something like that. As for the rest of it. I don't see what Behringer is doing as a "big fail." First off, there is clearly a large market for what they're putting out there. Even now a couple of their synths are in the top 10 selling synths. Just last week or so 7 out of 10 of the best selling semi-modular synths were Behringers. It would be cool to have a total replica of some of the classic synths. That said, they would also be quite space inefficient by today's standards of technology. Plus, space is definitely an issue for many, as you relate to a bit. Also, I personally prefer how Behringer is bringing the classics into the future by including midi and CV capabilities. Presets are always nice and I might very well prefer DCOs to VCOs for that reason, but I also like to make music from scratch. If I really want to be able to reconfigure a synth to a certain sound, I can take a picture of the settings. At any rate, to each their own, but I'd say that "silent majority" seems to also be silent with their money ... based on what's selling the most, that is.
I see your points and agree to a certain point, I would like a choice between the two formats. Some companies offer keyboards and modules and that would be great! SYNTH ON!
@@PureAmbientDrone True. It would be nice to have keyboard options for more of their semi-modular synths. I'd probably opt for it for something like the Cat or the Pro 1. At the same time, I can see why they wouldn't have for the K2, seeing as how Korg had already released the MS20 with keys at a similar price point. True the keys are mini-keys, so Behringer could have one-upped them on that I suppose ... . Ah well. Quite pleased with my synth collection which is largely thanks to Behringer, so I'm not complaining. ^_~
I have to disagree on the Deepmind. I did not grow up around the Juno's so I have no tie back to them. I like the modern look, it is much nicer than the 80's style. On that note, they clearly went crazy with feature creep adding to what the Juno was. I really wish they did this much extra on their other clones.... essentially turning them into something beyond a clone. But really the Deepmind is its own thing. As for the menus. I think they are a lot better than a Virus, the mod matrix is better than my Peak. They all have their gives and takes, but I think the Deepmind was Behringer's best executed synth so far.
looking at the comments it appears that nobody has a midi keyboard? Want an all-in-one? Waldorf makes a keyboard integrated with eurorack. KB37... 107hp- can fit a couple Behringers in there. I'd find this video more respectful if you titled it "My opinion on ..." or "why I think..." but hey... anything for the views amirite? :)
Another thing just gonna chuck this out there whats any of your thoughts on the Studio sledge 2.0, roland xi, korg wavestate, korg minilogue xd and the deepmind 12. Its the synthesisers I'm currently looking at. I own a a Yamaha MODX, a Korg Krome and a 90s Yamaha CS1x. I'm getting to a point where I'm like menu diving sucks a big one on the programing lol. I want something where sliders and knobs are the tickets to sound creation. Building soundscapes to work along side my multi timber beast MODX I'm thinking of selling my other 2. I've herd the sledge has a few bugs but may of been patched. The wavestate even though has lots of control and beautiful wavestation type sounds to program properly needs lots of menu diving. This is why I thought mind 12 maybe an answer to the others. Xd I'm unsure and roland xi looks really unique specially on buiding drum patterns but maybe too basic for my workflow.
Appreciate your point of view and thanks for sharing. I bought the K-2 over the MS Mini because it just sounds better & I didn't want that miniature keyboard.
I love the behringer deepmind12 but I digress because I'm not a synth purist but a rock musician who likes to add electronic elements to my tracks and the versatility and affordability of this allows me just that
Going to disagree and not gonna lie I am a bit hypocritical because I have the MS20 Mini and I ADORE IT. Having said that, there are 2 main reasons I love the module format: 1. Size - nuff said 2. To me by not copying the size and form factor (they do come pretty close in the interface), Behringer doesn't fall into the "ripoff" category (in my eyes). They deliver a value priced instrument for those of us that crave the sounds of our youth and too some degree it protects those that invest in the genuine vintage gear. That being said; is there a big enough market to justify the tooling necessary for a spot-ish on remake of the Cat? The WASP? Do we really want more authentically sized remakes at the cost of longer lead times and higher price?
Yes, I agree! I mean, how would it even make sense to just completely clone every aspect of a synth even down to its original size? Synths of those days were big for a reason: old, antiquated technology. Even a modicum of understanding of the evolution of technology should suffice to know that we now do the same sorts of things as before with much smaller components. So why would Behringer make the synths so huge? would they just leave them mostly empty inside so they would be the same size? Doesn't even make sense ... .
I prefer modular/desktop. I can use 1 midi keyboard (I have 3) to control all of my modules(DM12D, Pro1,Neutron,K2, Blofeld, Pittsburgh Modular 3900 Micro, Skulpt, CraftSynth2) vs standing in front a keybed synth to play it. I can sit in my studio chair and play them all from my 3 midi kB, and using their vst editor I can change each synth parameter from one location. I also have limited space. Desktop vs the “keybedded” version each has their pluses and minuses. I love Behringer. No company, to include the original, can recreate a 30-40 year old synth 100%. Korg’s mini MS20 is not an exact clone of the original nor does it sound 100% the same. The K2 sounds close enough and the waveforms on oscilloscope look close enough to most people. I am not a synth snob. I’m glad the DM12 doesn’t look like the 106. I own one of the first issue 106s and I use the DM12 more and have relegated the 106 to an almost non use synth. You can purchase a 106 template for the DM12, but I like the way it looks as it is. As for menu diving, for sound design that’s fine, I’m not using my synths live. Besides I have a Blofeld so menu diving is no big deal. I hate my JDXi and will be replacing it a BARP Odyssey or a Sub25 I think for the 90 percentile of us that can’t afford Brand name synths, Behringer allows us to get into synthesizers and music. Peace.
well, they do clone the appearance in the functional sense, the knobs/sliders are at the same position mostly. Only the form factor is very small. (eurorack format) Yes, i agree they also should make a full blown clone (physically, non eurorack format) for those who want the exact looks/shape. So people can choose: pay a bit more, to get the 1 on 1 clone (including keys and real size dimensions) or go with the eurorack version.
I had 4 Behringers(MODEL D, PRO 1, Odyssey and Crave) I kept the Ody and Crave because the Ody is a beauty.. Full size, all metal, sequencer, useable fx and those 3 filters.. OMG.. I love it and Crave? get one. it's good for bass and it's only 1 osc. AS for the System 8, I loved mine but it was trade for the muscle synth Matrixbrute. The System 8 is what I get if i'm starting over... That's the synth.
I am into EDM. I have the Behringer Deepmind 12D for poly analog and fast presets, an Arturia MatrixBrute for mono analog and more intricate patches (one knob per function). I have a Arturia DrumBrute as an analog drum computer, Arturia KeyStep Pro to sequence and play analog gear and a Roland TB-03 for nice acid lines. All of these have both CV, Midi and USB MIDI. All the Arturia stuff shines in coltrol voltage connections, so this gives me possibilities when I can eventually go into modular (to me this is an inevitability). Firstly I am now saving for a Allen & Heath QU 32 for studio mixing. It has a high knob per function (works without a snake). Studio Reference Monitor set and a crappy kubes. Secondly before I go to expand to modular, I want to have some digital synthesis possibilities as well. I will get a MC707, a good sampler (with cv connections, probably from Elektron) and have to decide between a Acces Virus TI2 and Novation Summit / Waldorf Quantum. That choice will be the color of sound(Access strong point) vs knob per function (Summit/Waldorf). I probably throw an Akai MPC X at it too. I also have a list of VST synths very popular these days in EDM, that will come third. My goal is play inbox and outbox whenever what mood. I am happy to get later more behringer clones, but I doubt I will. Either via VST (cheapest) or a remake of the model by actual brand (knob per function) will be probably the way to go. Sometimes when you really want a specific sound it is just impossible to get it at a high knob per function. If there would be a sound clone of the Access Virus with more knob per function I would go for that. So far there I am not aware of such synth... It would be cool if Behringer would keep these modules, while giving them much midi CC and create a nice controller that does the knob per function part. Heck they could even then clone the visuals authentic to a MIDI controller device, and have CC premapped accordingly to the cloned module.
Al good and well ... I do understand if you feel that way about it ... but as you already told Korg made an actual remake model that looks like the original This is also a reason why Behringer could not do a full replica and probably did a modular version For in a studio environment these units are much more desirable than versions with full keyboards ... I do understand that some might like a version with the keyboard ... and want the units to look like the originals However this is something that Roland did with there boutique line using a pro Proprietary connector There are pros and cons to both methodes of doing this Also note that a lot of synth company’s have been fighting against what behringer is doing to prevent them from making a model that looks authentic to the original In the end it’s al about the sound that is similar or as close as it could get to the original
Totally with you that Behringer needs to be a Sound - Interface cloning company. The Model D is a Minimoog in sound and interface. All these mono synths with no memory are simple enough to do, but the UB-Xa needs to match the interactive front panel. If anyone were to clone a Polysix, then it has to have the same interface so you can interact with it in the same manner. The Model D would have been a massive fail if the panel had been set up like an Odyssey panel. The sound could be identical, but if you put the oscillator selector in the mixer and the LFO OSC 3 switch either on the far left or far right then it would have been silly and intentionally awkward for anyone that is used to a Mini. Sound is important, I mean you couldn't make a 3 oscillator clone that sounded like a digital sample with artifacts and aliasing, but the interface is equally important.
I have so many keybeds already. It's better to have desktop and rack modules that work fine with Arturia or Novation master keyboards than recreating 100% clones with keys. Most people complain that they want rack versions or desktop versions.
The word “clone” isn’t what Behringer is making. I’ll explain in a bit. You’re not a mono synth guy. You’re not a “no presets guy.” You sir, are a breath of fresh air along with some other great channels out there. You definitely have some balls even thinking of posting such a great video. The Behringer fanbois love their mediocre synths. Yes, I own a DM12, rd8, and even a 404 audio interface from years ago which I don’t use anymore. But their deluge of “good enough” mono synths simply aren’t. They are subpar. Who remembers IBM clone computers? I do. I owned several back in the late 80s and 90s. These PCs weren’t just clones of the staple of which IBM was, they were better. They looked like IBMs, they were more expandable, they had more features out of the box, they were faster, and speed was the name of the game back then. Behringer needs to stay away from the ‘cloning’. Behringer’ s ‘clones’ are what I consider sophomoric attempts at replicating legendary mono synths. It’s almost as if they are making the 5th sequel to the movie Home Alone over and over. Attempting to squeeze juice from a turnip and providing some low hanging fruit for the uneducated. Yeah, that’s harsh, and so is the sound of the majority of their synths. The odyssey and the deep mind models are the only synths worth spending your hard earned money on. I hope that will change with their promised products debuting in the next century. If I cloned anything that was once spectacular or 😱 still is, wouldn’t you expect it to be a duplicate? According to the dictionary that is the word (duplicate) used to define a clone. I know Behringer’s definition of clone isn’t found in the English language dictionaries. Maybe it is in the Chinese ones though. 😑
One aspect of every company that they see but we don't is the SALES. They have the statistics and they know what sells and what not. We don't see that. I'm guessing Behringer wants to "try" the modules first and see what sells and what not. If a particular one sells good, they'd probably be inclined to put more money and time to make an authentic look for it. Just like what happened for the Poly D.
I would like thins to build an opitional rack keyboard like what Roland did for the boutiques to fix the issue. On the other hand for the polys the Unix looks promising but if they clone a prophet 4 they need to make it woth a Keybed and larger patch bank. Same goes for the future Jupiter 8 clone and the rest of the poly beasts.The cs80 must have simplified workflow because the old school Yamaha terminology for the cs line was very confusing. If they plan to do a cs 80 desktop might as well do a cs 60 because it’s less power packed and might work due to the simplicity. As for the mono synths I’m not complaining about the lack of patch storage because the mini moog and sh 101 are suuuuper easy to program so it might be a waist to modernize those clones.
I hear you. The first Behringer synth I bought was the Poly D, *because* - it has a keyboard, - it is, albeit not identical, similar enough to the Minimoog to make me feel at home immediately. Patch storage isn‘t really necessary for this kind of straight-forward synth. I guess Behringer is on a good way: the upcoming MonoPoly looks even more similar to the original, and the UB-Xa will be slimmer than the Obie but otherwise also very similar.
I have to say, if any synth companies should have the tag "Big Fail", it wouldn't be Behringer. I would say firstly Roland have taken the 'all digital' route, but what their custimers were cryinh out for was re-releases of the SH101, SH2, Juno & Jupiter 8 (mainly). They failed to deliver, offering instead digital versions that admitedly do sound good, but it's not the same is it? Behringer came along and scratched that itch. Then you've got your favourite synth company James - Sequential/Dave Smith instruments continuing to release instruments outwith the budget of the average musician. That's fine if you want to release premium-priced goods, but be prepared to get nudged out of the market when a company like Behringer can give the customer EXACTLY what they want at an incredibly competative price. From that standpoint, it is the failure of the big synth companies themselves, and they only have themselves to blame if they start to lose sales and their footing in the synth market, because LISTENING to your customer base is important
I've got a few Behringer synth module's. And I know what you're talking about especially with the Deep Mind 12. Great unit but having to do all that paging through can get a bit nerve racking. But it's still an awesome sounding synth. Wondering if they'll make a poly 2600. Can you imagine? That would change everything. Kinda like what Auturia did with that new poly synth. Stay Blessed brother.
I get what you mean on the appeal of the look and approach to having a keyboard that makes it more inspirational. I have owned a Sub Phatty twice now. I cut off the keybed on my current one and at one point tried to sell it. But as it was for me always an inspiration to play and using an external keyboard or a controller when I removed the 25 key, keyboard didn’t bother me over having the smaller foot print but people weren’t interested in paying what I was asking and some thought it was less appealing. So, for behringer I get why they decided to do what they did but a whole and singular instrument is something that is a valued option even in a mono synth for many. But keyboard controllers aren’t hard to come by either though it is another thing when it comes to convenience.
I appreciate your point of view, and as a studio guy it makes sense to have nice keyboards. But I gig a lot (at least before 2020) and I've made a pact with myself that I will only buy modules from now on, which I control from my keystep pro. I use the ms-101 for all bass but since I got my keystep pro the keyboard on it is just extra space on my stand and in my car :/
Hence I got the DM12D. Awesome, and I use my Summit to play. I didn't want or need yet another keyboard, so this is perfect. And the sound is gorgeous.
Problems are price and place... Behringer is not making just one clone, they made a ton of clones ! And they want you to buy all.. So price is an important part. But for users the problem is the place. I DONT want anymore keyboards I don't have the place to store 10 or 20 full size machines. I can buy clones without keyboard. I already have many GOOD Midi keyboards I don't need more _cheap_ ones. So I understand your point of view but I think this is all the contrary of a fail, Behringer is doing things the right way if they want to sell more units... Most of us can afford a keyboard version but we can't extend easily our home studio surface...
No major complaints with Behringer although I'd like a bit more attention to detail for example the envelopes not being as snappy on their Cat and Pro One or the noise generator on the MS1 not being the same but the sound and prices are great but I'd pay a bit more for an exact replica in the sound department. Also wish they would release models with presets. Not that bothered with keyboards and like the small form factor. Also would prefer it if they didnt tease us with new releases that then take ages to hit the shelves, would rather they didn't bother mentioning it until they are in a position to manufacture but what they have achieved so far is fantastic.
I’m still waiting on a Behringer Poly D I ordered the second week of February through Guitar Center. Talked to the manager at the one closest to me at the end of May and was told they would be getting some on June 24. That’s come and gone and still nothing. Getting really frustrated with it.
There is a market that wants to have a 100% clone (visual, layouut, sound). There are many approaches to synths all cater different users. To me the main thing should serving to whatever comes out my speakres as a first priority, and second that it works with my creative workflow. The latter means to me that I want as much tactile functionality and and as least neccesary menyu diving as possible. I would even say lets not clone the l;ayouut perse, why not even improve the layout! Creative workflow to me is that i can quickly impulsively grab a knob change it, grab another knob change it too. if the two simple actions mean I have to drill two times to 8 levels deep menu's I likely dont even use the functionality at all. So I want as much visability as possible. What good is it if a thing has 2000 features, but you dont use these if you cant even find them? The question then is when designing, what will be the most often used functionalities and break those out the menu's. if two two main things are taken care first. Yes why not make a ms-20 clone look like the old thing with same colors etc. I am not a synth collector, I just want to make some music in an intuitive fast tactile way. I dont want a synthesizer to only look at and think oh boy that's such great 1 on 1 clone I really couldnt care less. I want the sound cloned and a tactile one knop per function layout and storage of set parameters. That's it.
I agree, we’ve got 10 fingers for a reason. Mono synths are antiquated, you don’t see anyone using rotary phones. I always wanted an ARP 2600 but 4K for a mono synth is insane
Mono synths are antiquated but still musically useful. Nearly every instrument in an orchestra is monophonic. If you stop thinking like a keyboard player and focus on playing an expressive line, than one note can be plenty.
Depends on the music you make, I prefer monos for bass and arps etc different sound quality to a poly. I dont think 4K for a classic replica is that expensive, it will be collectable and the price will increase over time, better than putting 4k in a bank.
Ok. So, the CS-80 clone should weigh 300 lbs, have a mini version of the voices for 1 patch memory, and a contact point poly aftertouch keyboard. Or it'll be another fail? We all have opinions...
Wise words : "I like any synth !" As 'ancient' I often hear youngsters say : that synth sounds 'bad'. And they all go crazy for analog modulars and analog synths with knobs. Well they have no clue. 'Bad' sounds simply do not exist. If a synth or synth patch sounds bad, it means you play an arrangement that doesn't fit the sound. That's what a teacher in Music philosophy taught me many many years ago and I never forgot those wise words... On the other hand, I think the whole current demand for analog synths is based on hype as a result of marketing and the believe that some of the old synths offer something 'magical' that can't be found in it's digital counterpart. First of al it's nothing but a misunderstanding that analog sounds 'better' or 'warmer' than digital. Blind tests, even at university level have proven that people can not hear the difference between analog and digital synths where as similar sounds were made on digital and analog synths (i.e. simple string pads, brass sounds, bass, ...) And secondly, there is no tool or instrument that can measure 'warmth' or depth or quality in a sound. I can make a Juno 60 look pale with a plugin like Massive from NI with a 'fat' sound that simply will burn your speakers...LOL. So how would you describe 'warmth' in a synth ? If you know how, you can make any synth sound 'warm'. And that is the problem. A lot of synth hobbyists know how to turn knobs on their synths but when it comes to designing sounds, that seems to be a whole different league... And finally, in a mastered music production, it is impossible to say whether a real 808, samples or an 808 clone were used...Try it, you'll never succeed. I often get the question how I make bass sound so deep in my mixes. I use a Novation V-station plugin for starters, the rest I've learned during my training in the 80's... :-)
There is something to be said for the physical interaction with the controls if you like the sound being controlled. But once something is digitized at CD audio quality or better, humans can’t tell the difference, absolutely. I’m not a fan of analog, mono, synths myself. Digital is fine.
This is something I always see older people say, most "youngsters" will just be getting these sounds out of software. Its the older people who actually have significant money invested in this stuff that are saying things like that.
Agreed! True, it would be nice to have DCOs for presets, but that wouldn't translate so much to eurorack anyway --- which is the best IMO thing Behringer has done to bring the clones into the future.
THAT is a great point. Thats why I love the Model D and the Neutron. Once I get into Euro, they simply could be added as modules to the rack. That said, I really want to see them come out with a successor to the DM12. Make it pretty, upgrade the keybed, charge more if you have to. People would pay for the improvements--and Behringer could sill make a grip based on their manufacturing process.
For those people here in the comments who actually disagree with PAD and say that the keyboard players are in a small majority; you guys are completely wrong! Behringer did post the following on their page: "Modules sell at a rate of around 10% of the standalone synths, unless they in the US$ 300 and below category. Thats often not worth the investment as product development is very expensive. Also often a module is not possible due to the real estate needed for the controls and knobs. Repeatedly shouting for modules isn't very helpful as we do lots of market research, especially with large retailers. " Here is the screenshot of the post: imgur.com/a/9nEKrXG There you have it right from the source, keyboards outsell modules. I completely agree with PAD I don't like their eurorack format they should stick to the Poly D format for their mono synths.
behringer oddesy - has keyboard behringer ms-1 - has keyboard behringer poly d - has keyboard behringer monopoly - has keyboard behringer - vc340 - has keyboard behringer deepmind 12 - has keyboard behringer deepmind 6 - has keyboard td-3 has - key buttons crave has keys - has key buttons .....
Some of those you mentioned were not on the market at the time of this video. Maybe they heard me lol and started adding keys to more of their clones. They do subscribe to my channel. :)
@@PureAmbientDrone YEH.. i noticed browsing your recent videos that you now have some behringer synths... ppg will be awesome, they are on a roll and seem to be making more reliable synths than sequential currently... or moog.
Most B clones lack the power, speed and character of the originals. That's a bigger issue tbh! From a selling point I agree that the looks are important. But don't forget how much space many synths take.
Sure, I understand your point. Of course I love the big synths and the interaction with them fits my workflow a bit better. That said though, I am into modules for jamming see here: ua-cam.com/play/PLwl7Y_-y0RA2BGyWho-cKdMdNnDGy76um.html
@@PureAmbientDrone Cool. Yes it depends on ones workflow. Rick Wakeman would def agree with you! Most of my stuff goes through a hardware sequencer so I only really need one keybed to work out the part for that synth and then it's triggered from the sequencer thereafter. 😃
This is where i disagree and behringer has not failed. Quite the opposite! Also i love the modules🤷🏼♂️ and even better the sound ratio to pricepoint is the best EVER!
Thank you for sharing your opinion, sir. This helps me understand why some of my online searches show zero Behringer gear, but sites like Thomann rank those highly. To your point, it depends on what you’re after. I bought the Crave a few months ago: no (piano) keyboard, not poly - but it has a sequencer, arpeggiator, OSC, VCO, ENV, and I use it to create instant jam tracks to play acoustic drums with. And i’m looking for my next, second, analogue synth now, as i’ve totally loved using the Crave. It can be monophonic, all I need is a MIDI In. :-)
With all due respect, but I can't understand what the "big fail" is that you are talking about. A few points: 1) There's the PolyD, Mono Poly, MS-1 and Odissey synths with keyboards. They all sound and feel like the thing they are cloning (PolyD goes even beyond that) 2) Making a clone that has the control surface of a synth but not the keyboard is what many people want: saves desk space, while keeping the experience of interacting with the original instrument. Many people prefer to control synths via a high-quality master keyboard, rather than a cheap keyboard (actually some of the original models came with low quality keybeds). It's the fiddling with knobs and buttons and lack of menu diving that are really important. I love my Korg MS-20 mini, but that mini-keyboard feels like a toy. 3) If there is such a "silent majority" craving for keyboard synths, why don't they speak up ?... What I see is Behringer modules selling very, very well, which means that a lot of people are happy with Behringer's decision 4) Describing a product line choice as "big fail" is strange when a large share of the market is happy with said choice. And even more when Behringer is indeed making keyboard synths (PolyD, Monopoly, SH-101, Odissey , Deepmind,etc). Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with Behringer in any way, just trying to be fair here.
lol, you're wrong dude. Behringer themselves said that keyboards are outselling modules. Stop reading those lame posts on forums in which everyone and his mom begs for modules. Here is a screenshot of the post in which Behringer made that claim. imgur.com/a/9nEKrXG The only big fail here is those kids who think modules are outselling keyboards lmao.
I'm with you on this . They could even give customers the options of a key or keyless unit. Perhaps do a market survey first and work out what's more viable for them. From about their second clone I did think to myself , "ahh ok good synth but the format is gonna get tired soon. Can you imagine how much more appealing the neutron would have been with pitch bend wheels and keys.
@@PureAmbientDrone Yep 100% . Most companies ie: Dsi did the reverse which I think is very consumer considerate. Keyboard first then maybe the module . Ok it would be impractical to do this every single time, but a little option here and there I think, would go a long way and draw a few more customers into the door.
@@PureAmbientDrone . That is a good idea . Or even bring out a universal keyboard that can fit the width of the modules ( providing they are all bang on the same ), like you have with the roland boutiques and provide proper pitch and mod wheels ( no touch ribbon). Anyways same to you , synth on my freind ✌🏾
Just had another thought ( sorry to string this thread out . ) I wonder if one of the reason behind Behringer's format is part of copyright infringement dodging . I suppose it gives them a better leg to stand on in court should it come to it .
I am looking for a cheap synthesizers. Whether poly or Holy. I just want to have fun. to become happy . Which you can recommend me, you have so many .What is good for fun
Behringer has always been my value buy. Bang for the buck beyond other manufacturers. However, it is so frustrating that they slightly miss the mark on synths. I have had a Model D and Deepmind (still have DM) but what would keep me from selling would be presets (and effects?) for the Model D - I would pay for the memory module for sure because the D sounds really good, and for the Deepmind a nice big clear touchscreen....perhaps another 1-200 dollars. The screen is too cheap and difficult to navigate for us with old eyes. That being said I would buy a Deepmind X with Rom samples and the synth engine with a beautiful touch sensitive 5" screen. I am on record on the CS80 clone, if it sounds like a CS80, has user presets I will nominate Uli for sainthood.... ({-;)
Monopoly bonopoly... rocks....I never experienced the analog synths... but I have come to love the analog sounds and controls because of behringer...thank you behringer....but I have found through UA-cam friends compared to moog..waldorf..ds and sequtial...you get what u pay for...to each his own
Well i m pretty new to synths overall . But i have get some moogs Matriarch & Grandmother & DFAM and behringer to . Model D and Vocoder VC 340 . Buy a Roland original VP 330 ? NO thanx overpriced "vintage" recap etc etc problems And the Behringer looks just as the original So that was the first thing i did get :) OK the Model D maybe is small and needs a external keyboard . But for that money its excellent , and i like them with knobs That is straight forward easy to use. Make menus dive in and under menus etc etc thats cheap low quality thinking imo . Keep it as little screentime as possible . And i hope they will make more fullsize synths in the future . They are more then welcome to replicate a Memorymoog . and bring even more oscillators to it . :)
It is and its not. But its very close to a Juno. So yes you can say they were going for that sound IMHO but they didn't try for the look and feel like they are with the Poly D, say. SYNTH ON!
I don't really care about the lack of a keyboard as you can permanently hook one up to a midi keyboard or whatever even if you picked up some used midi keyboards for each one but I think the smaller size is a bit of a bummer
Love your vids man and your synth selection is epic keep up the good work you do. I'm currently building my synth collection my next on the list is the deep mind 12. Just a thought on what you said. Your not too keen on behringer bringing out synths which can't store presets for example the poly D. But you would need a screen of some sort to save your sound designs unless you had motorised faders and a ton of buttons for bank selects lol or possibly a computer librarian which mapped your slider positions. If you took the screen out of the deep mind 12 and give it some juno paint job you probably wouldn't be able to save your fine work. Its just a thought I don't mean anything by it. Perhaps there some wizard trickery that you synth guys know about that I don't know about on analog gear. The deep mind 12 would be my 1st analog synth so I'm a noob but I do have a keen background on synthesisers lol.
I had a Behringer crave that was just totally impossible to tune. It's a good material as a toy for making weird noises but if you want to make music...go see elsewhere !
There are a couple of trimpots near the tuning knobs. You need to adjust them to be able to tune it properly. I'm not sure why they didn't mention that in the manual though!
I respectfully disagree with the premise that synthesizers need integrated keyboards today. If you enjoy being surrounded by keyboards, that's fine, but with the enormous choice and quality of controller keyboards available today, an integrated keyboard on every synth seems unnecessary. And modules are not necessarily about saving space: With MIDI, USB and sequencers (DAW), being surrounded by physical keyboards is no longer a prerequisite. Like many, I still have an extensive collection of vintage synths but, IMHO, there is no reason to harass or harangue Behringer. To paraphrase Obi Wan, These are not the programming nightmare rack modules of the 90's.
Get more of me, James Drone
Visit: www.JamesDrone.com for all my synthesizer music, synth patches and social media connections.
I shop for synthesizers here: www.zzounds.com/a--3960121/
None of the “Clones” are really exact clones. They have additional patch points that improve the flexibility of the circuits over the originals. They are smaller than the originals, too, so they are portable. I usually take one with me on vacation. If someone wants to make a well-rounded studio of mono synths, they can pick up a Behringer D, Pro-One, MS 20 and Neutron all together for less than a grand if they watch the sales. When they are not being used, put them in a closet for later. The mistake people make is when they get bored with gear, they sell it right away at a loss to get the latest gizmo with bells and whistles. Then they hear someone do an amazing recording with a particular piece of gear and realize it could do a lot more than they though.
The polys will be here eventually and Behringer is working on some new super-secret sauce original gear. When these things arrive, some people will love them and some will hate them.
Behringer gear will never be good enough for some people just like a Kia or even a Ford will not be good enough for some people. Just make make music with the gear you have and be happy.
I have seen some absolutely stunning performances with B synths on YT. They are turning out some decent kit for the money,
Their biggest fail is making us wait for the UB-XA!
Not long now!
@@vaiman7777 Mate i doubt its going to happen! Still nothing...
@@NathanChisholm041 Haha the wait is bad. I buckled and bought an OB-6 lol
@@vaiman7777 I end up buying a Novation Summit. Fantastic synth just like the Sequential. I still want a UB-Xa so I'm using Arturias version which does sound really good...
@@NathanChisholm041 I'm still hoping they bring out their LINN drum. Chip shortage and Covid have been a right downer on synth buying!
Behringer Odyssey is the best clone for this money
Without a doubt.
Yep. It is sweet. Do you know some good places to get free sounds?
My partner got me an odyssey for £400 new for xmas last year. It’s taken me a few months to get used to but I love it. Also the model D is just amazing for the money. I can’t deny the Behringer synths I have are staying exactly where they are in my setup.
Dude, the Behringer VC-340 is a masterpiece 👍🏻
I think the reason for the menu-diving in the DeepMind is the fact that they gave you enough hands-on controls to get you started and make a wide variety of sounds (Juno-like, wink wink) but they tucked away the more advanced features that you might use less often for when you need them. Personally I think it was an acceptable design decision.
Yes I agree they wanted to give MORE Power and that's fine too!
Yeah, personally I think the menu diving isn't really all that bad on the DM. I mean, there's a button under each fader to go into its respective menu. Plus they didn't convolute matters with subfolders and such. Pretty straightforward for such a deep synth if you ask me.
Thanks, James, for an interesting commentary.
Being very space-challenged in my studio, I have more modules than synths with keyboards, and my modules include the Behringer Model-D and the Neutron. For me, they are lovely-sounding machines with some nice features like Eurorack-type patch points and they don't consume much space. I happen to enjoy some monosynths but I like polysynths too and totally get why you prefer the latter. The more voices the merrier, of course.
I also have a DM12 and love it. For me, it is in no way a "fail." I don't mind at all that the DM12 doesn't look like a Juno, but that could be because I've never owned a Juno.
I more recently got a Poly-D and enjoy that too, despite the fact that it's actually para and not poly. For me, it is like having a souped-up little Minimoog with a nice chorus effect and stereo output. Since I'll never be able to justify spending 3 grand on a real Minimoog, this is probably the closest I will ever get to owning one of those.
Like many people, I eagerly anticipate getting my hands on a UBXa. I hope it reaches the marketplace during my lifetime! Behringer's proposed 2600 intrigues me too. For me, a real "fail for Behringer would be dangling these prototypes of the 2600 and UBXa in front of us only to kill those projects and never deliver on them. That would be flat-out sad.
I think Behringer should sell an inexpensive keyboard module chassis, that way you could take one or two synth modules (or one plus a couple of smaller rack items like oscillators or sequencers) and plop it into a keyboard frame. Currently it's kinda frustrating having to power a keyboard and a module separately, and then hook them up with an extra midi cable, which makes integration into a larger setup via midi difficult.
Excellent suggestion. Truely modular, in a different sense of the word 🤣.
Sir, while the patents on the circuitry of classic analog synths may have long lapsed, the names, colors, panel layout, panel marking fonts and style may be legally protected under "trade dress".
I purchased the Poly D and I returned it mainly because of the knobs and feel of keys. The keys felt like they were going to break I got in a good groove and they made a weird clicking sound on some of the keys. The knobs were all loose and would swivel on any setting they were locked on. It just felt cheep overall and I would have rather them made a stronger build and sold for closer to 1k and I would have bought it with no change to the sound quality.
Almost none of the synth manufacturers put a decent keyboard on their synths when they do a keyboard version so I'm find with the modules.
DodgingRain many actually use a Fatar keybed which is pretty good.
I'm late to the party watching this video, but thought it worth pointing out that not everybody wants or needs the additional keybeds. I control everything from a master keyboard or sequencer, so the keyboard is really just unnecessary extra cost and space. I have in the past owned original versions of many of the synths behringer are recreating and they took up an enormous amount of space while being controlled predominantly via sequencing. When children came along I had to downsize to make space which meant going in the box for a long time, but as I've got back into making music with hardware the options to keep it small are what appeals most to me and the low prices for the behringer gear are a welcome bonus. Behringer are not the only synth manufacturers in my arsenal, I have a bunch of small desktop modules and synths from Roland, Waldorf, Korg, IK, Modal, and they were all chosen for a combination of sounds, features and importantly size/form factor. One thing that put me off the Odyssey clone was the keyboard. Likewise the 101 clone. Maybe a smarter move for behringer would be to introduce a controller keyboard unit with a space to insert your choice of desktop synth module skin to the Roland boutique idea. That way you can pay the extra cost for a keybed if you really want it and aren't lumbered with hardware you never use it not.
One solution. Behringer should build a keybed and casing, such as the one used for the poly D that their modules can be bolted onto. Build everything in module/desktop form, sell the cases separately. Maybe even make a few different colored cases, some with a dark stain, some in black, some like the poly D color. Build the modules so that you can easily remove the wooden end end cheeks and then they will drop right into the casing. Now, some of the modules/desktops they are building are different lengths I have found.They should have taken the largest size and made all the modules/desktops that one size. I also agree that whatever they clone should look like the original. A Jupiter 8 is a gorgeous synth, I can't imagine cloning that and making it look different.
The Jup 8 is a legend and changing its look to much is a bad idea, so I agree!
I would love this idea, basically what Roland did with their Boutique modules, but in full size key form.
I think marketing clones so aggressively was their first mistake. If they released their synths as original designs simply INSPIRED by classic synths and not outright targeting specific models, there wouldn’t be the weight of customer expectations. Musicians could still get the sounds and feel of a synth they liked without the constant comparisons. In the synth world as soon as something is billed as a clone it falls into immediate scrutiny! So build something new! Even budget synths can become classics in their own right if they are good designs!
Their sales are through the roof regardless of scrutiny and or the bashing though. Clearly people want them the way they are. Sales=success as a company. That's not a mistake, that's the point of being a company that sells things. The marketing worked.
Also, personally I wanted exact clones at a fair price. The more exact the better but I'll take what I can get. There's already so many inspired and original new synths available and coming out. This is what was missing for people like me. They're currently working on a couple more originals anyways and they will eventually run out stuff to clone. I think the clones is part giving the people what they want and part Behringer learning all they can about building synths. I think they're going to surprise everyone in the near future.
I agree, I think the DM12 and Neutron are their best synths to date, simply because they aren't trying to be exact clones of anything else. Obviously, as pointed out, a lot of people do enjoy their clones, and they are selling well. I just hope they will go back and design something original again in the future - maybe a digital/analog hybrid polysynth, kind of like the Prophet X or Quantum, but without exactly copying either.
I agree with this guy...
I agree with you 100%, I'm not a behringer hater by any means, I had the Behringer model D it sounded very good but what you didn't get was the Moog experience. It was fidgety to use, small knobs, simple tasks like adding a subtle vibrato was annoying. Then it brings me to the point how many mono synths do you need in your studio, what is the point of having 10-20 mono synths? As most of them are modules they are intended for the studio or modular rack. For me I have 3 mono synths that's enough, I don't need a CAT, K2, SH101, Pro one etc..... they are all just mono synths that more or less do the same thing just have a bit different character of sound and some own individual quirks. Also if Behringer are serious about cloning classic poly synths and MPCs they really need to improve their firmware, as it is not good.
What they should release are keyboards that will hold their modules. Like what Roland have for their boutique series. But rather than just a small keyboard the size of the module, they could offer, 37, 49, or 61 key variants. That way everyone would be happy. Maybe they could even do a version with a big enough keyboard that would hold multiple modules which could switch between them? I'm sure live players would find that useful.
I agree, as I find I play my keyboard synths more often than with modules.
Hello, I agreed and disagree with you. I own many vintage synths including Moogs, Oberheims, Rolands and Korgs.
I also own many Behringer synths including the Deepmind 12 polychained to 4 rack Deepmind 12's. I recently purchased the Poly D which gives the Moog Voyager and Matriarch a run for their money. Though there is probably no match for my Moog One 16 voice unit "Yet", there is a comparable match to the OB-8/OBXa. The fact Behringer is one of the first to clone an almost identical 3340CEM VCO is pretty amazing in itself. Behringer has put out the mono version of an Oberheim one voice known as the Neutron which can be polychained to create an 8 voice version of an OB-8 or closer to an OBXa. Thus they are in process of releasing the UBXa, which you, not being a mono synth person, may find interesting. Like you, I have several rooms full of synthesizers, both poly and mono, close to 100 to be more specific. You're correct on the vintage circuitry being a bit more fat or aggressive, but there are added features in most of these newer Behringer synths that enhance the performance, sometimes better than the originals. It is also amazing the price point on where these units fall. Most people that never owned synths or could not afford to have the hobby that we do, can now expand their pallet. In fact, maybe to the point of owning the originals. It has always been an argument of mine being an oscillator engineer, owning something because there are few of them, for the "Name" value, just to say you have one, or owning something you can actually create music with instead of worshiping. Sure I have my synths I just like to look at and own, maybe play once and a while, but I also like the fact these newer low maintenance, reasonably priced units, that sound near identical to the originals, you can play knowing if something goes wrong, they have warranties!
Yeah when the Behringer Model D module came out i was super excited but also let down because it was just an expander without keys. And i don't consider expanders real instruments because to make them BECOME one you can actually play, you need a MIDI keyboard. So i waited. And boom, they announced the Poly D. Sure, it did cost at least 2x more but it also got a 4th oscillator, analog chorus, sequencer, Arpegiator and even a distortion unit. All put into a Minimoog Voyager looking flip panel case with aftertouch keys. And even though i would have rather loved to see the effect section of the Odyssey clone in the Poly D, i am still super happy with the Poly D and it was well worth the wait. To me it was the much better deal. Much closer to the original (especially if you don't use the chorus, distortion, Sequencer / Arp and also keep the 4th oscillator turned off) and still a LOT more affordable than let's say... a used MiniMoog Model D from the 70s... and much cheaper than a Minimoog Voyager or one of the super limited modern Model Ds that Moog sold a few years ago. I just wish they would also do a clone of the russian Polivoks station. I'm already drooling over the announced CS80 clone they gonna release :D
As others have said, Behringer is cashing in on the profits by all these modules that sound "good enough" and are cheap. That said, I REALLY hope they come out with a successor to the DM12. Heck, charge more, expand its capabilities, make it pretty, upgrade the keybed, less menu diving, poly aftertouch, etc etc. That would be a mic drop moment for Behringer. Not another clone (although I would jump all over a Behringer CS-80 clone).
The ds80 is still in development
I certainly don't mind what they look like as long as they are very functional and hands on. I also quite like modules, I’m going to control it with a sequencer in the end anyway. I don’t own any behringer.
Aren't the module shells all different shapes and sizes?
Some are longer than others. The Neutron and K2 are the same length but longer than the Model D and the Cat which are also the same length of one another. So two different lengths.
I like their eurorack mini synths. The only one I have is the Model D, and I love it. I like the Odyssey too. Haven't played one yet, but I'm pretty sure I want one. Also, I am holding on to hope for a decent UBXa. Synth on y'all
I have there Odyssey, it's outstanding.
I had the original in the late 70's...Behringers is actually better, what I mean is it's excellent effects and sequencer and midi implementation puts it ahead of the original...edpecialy as it sounds the same also.
I wouldn't hesitate in purchasing it...for me it's the best they have done to date.
@@maydaygoingdown5602 I 'm looking at the Odyssey and KORG MINILOGUE XD but really want the Odyssey. Think the Odyssey first. Recently bought the Korg MS20 white full size and just love it! Also got the Korg Opsix and that thing is amazing but feels a bit cheap but stunning sound.
i honestly prefer the module setup, i only had formal training in guitar n learned some very basic piano from a friend n only know the base scales n not too well and 5th and minor 5th and 6th chords, n the keys start to sorta blend together at one point sooner or later, all that combined with my excessively large hands and long fingers (jumbo sized keys are even too small for comfort) but i like the pads bc its more trackable like frets on a guitar. was considering an Arturia Beatstep pro and a Behringer Pro1 but i got a minlogue module instead
I agree with your thesis that the look is really important. Imagine a sports car that performs, but does not look sporty. I'm not that big on the requirement of the keyboard ( I have plenty of modular gear w/o a dedicated keyboard). But ... the look is a really significant part of "gear lust". Another important part is how easy/hassle free the interface is. Knobs to small ... big fail. Menu diving ... ditto.
I love the modules because I can Midi them to any keyboard. Too Many keyboards are clutter.
I'll never understand why people want keyboards on synthesizers, so much so that they don't even buy a synth without a keyboard. How many keyboards do you need? How many hands do you have? Just plug that thing into your most favorite keyboard, and youre done. You can control all of your dozen synthesizers with your one favorite keyboard.
But some perform with them, they swith. One part on this one. One part on that one.
Yeah, try telling Rick Wakeman that! I used to be like that, using my MKB-1000 to control everything, but it's limited. You want to be able to layer different keys without constantly switching midi channels. It's just more versatile
@@davejames885 yeah and as a non-keyboard player ( I mostly play drums) I think it looks cool on stage when the synth player has a few different synths they're playing at the same time
I never understood why people would want a synth WITHOUT a keyboard on. As a keyboard player I have all that rigging up midi cables and working out zones etc. Having a keyboard on a synth makes so much sense to me. I can have my left hand on the piano, right on the Hammond sound. Then reach up play the solo on the monosynth and go back to the Hammond. Otherwise I'd forever be taking my hand off switching presets play the sound then switch back. What a nightmare.
Drummers have 2 or 3 (or more) toms. They don't have one then retune it between hits. In the studio you might only need one keyboard.
@@WibblyWobblyBob Exactly .
I can only speak for my self but I prefer synths with keyboards. I just got, from my wife as a birthday present, a Moog Grandmother. It was a toss up between it and a korg Wavestate. After much deliberation, I went with the Moog. I have a room full of Korgs including a kronos. I just felt it was time for a true analogue synth with no memory just to get me back to my roots. I'm glad I did! playing them all together sounds great!
i understand your argument. but i am so happy with the modules. i wish poly d was module.
1. You're dead on about the deepmind...had the look of a $2000 Juno made to look like a $99 Yamaha keyboard with that screen.
2. I like the modules & especially the cheaper price. Wood ends look classy & they are all stackable which is very retro looking attractive-they're basically the new Moog format(DFAM, Subharmonicon, Mother32) at half the price.
3. The are making near perfect full keyed clones with added functionality- Poly D, Monopoly, heck the SH-101 clone even comes with the keytar add on.
All I own of behringer is the Neutron & love it, I will by the 2600 & I'm glad it's keyless for price & because I'm putting it in the breifcase lid of my Arp Solus.
I couldn't stand the keybed on the DeepMind
@@emptyfame7141 haven't played it. I have the Juno60 & Polysix or I I would've picked one up for the price. Juat wish the screen was much smaller & maybe on the side.
I believe a good reason for Behringer to create synths without keyboards is we already have them. Most of us have a keyboard we like or like the keyboard and what feels good to one may not feel good to another. We have our midi controllers with aftertouch; some have mod-wheels, some have mod-strips, and some have joysticks, and almost all of us have the kind we prefer. By leaving the keyboard off Behringer doesn't run the risk of making a bad keyboard or making a keyboard that a segment of the market doesn't care for and are able to keep the synths at a lower price point.
From what I have heard on UA-cam Behringer is making some awesome equipment. I'm wondering if a clone of the Mellotron will soon be in their plans.
I use the EHX Mel9 pedal you can use with guitar or keys and it does mellotron perfectly.
Yes. I appreciate your overview and critique. Your voice is just as important as all of ours!;)
note: this is written 1.5 years later:
they're coming with a pro-16 for x-mas 2021... a prophet-5 clone with 16 polyphony, full keyboard, and probably extra tricks
the keyboard part is expensive to manifacture, I think they're trying to build to a certain price here, and it seems to be working pretty well for them, they can't seem to make enough of any of them synths
Never happened!!
@@NathanChisholm041 yeah, guess they're late... (wouldn't be the first time). check the post on Behringer's facebook page from august 21 2021
@@AmauryJacquot Ive seen the prototype demo off it and looked good but we have been left hanging! Is it or is it not coming?
@@NathanChisholm041 my money is on integrated circuits shortages
I don't think Behringer have failed in any way, in fact I think they are selling a lot of units.
However as a consumer it can be a bit frustrating when their products don't align with what you're looking for. It just seems a bit arbitrary which clones get keyboards and which don't. Why not have two standardized designs, one in module form and one in keyboard form, and release every clone in both variants?
For me, patch memories are a must, though, which is why I only own the DM12 from Behringer. For a Minimoog-like synth, I went with the SE-02 instead. Sure a lot of people will say programming a Minimoog is quick and easy, but I just like being able to pick up exactly where I left off 2 weeks ago without first having to try to remember what I was doing.
Hi James, you seem a cool calm and reasonable commentator. Totally agree with you on this one. I am curious about your opinion on the behringer PolyD clone model D . I purchased 3 times because some glitches here and there including midi implementation with DAWs and some annoying plucking sound and even when all oscillators are off you still hear this annoying plucking thumping sound (?) and to solve this ( circuitry problem, IMO), you need to set the attack and decay of AD envelope at 20 ms at least, yet if you need a snappy attack for specific sound you will hear this annoying plucking underneath the actual sound you programmed... I like this PolyD it’s enjoyable and for the money you can’t go wrong... again 3 PolyDs? It doesn’t matter how many screen recordings, emails sent to developers... these issues are still there and there to be , hopefully, addressed. Thanks 😊
Well I haven't got my hands on a Poly D yet so I don't know. I did have tuning issues with my D and so bye bye it went. Keep tuned you never know what I might get my hands on over here! Synth ON!
With the exception of the TD-3, the only Behringer remakes that I own and regularly use are the MS-101 and the Odyssey, both having a really good keybed. As a player, I have to have that keyboard there in order to use it in my life setup.
You want the whole experience … not only the sound but also the touch. Maybe it’s better that behringer make their own synths :) . I hope to see a good looking synth (old style) and not a clone this time. Something new from behringer , real analog, 16 note polyphonic (minimum), prof keys with aftertouch … and with build in analog drumcomputer, sequencer, multitrack and several digital outputs 😊
Behrenger's big fail is ??? They made the Model-D module, which looks a lot like a Mini. Then they made the Poly-D which looks even more like a Mini, plus it has a keyboard. Both are apparently selling well. You mentioned their Odyssey clone yourself. In short, they are making a range of clones, many of which have keyboards and closely copy both the look and layout of the originals. They also have some non-clone systems and some modules, but I can't see this as a "fail". It's a product range and they sell a variety of synths to a variety of consumers. A Poly-D is a lot closer to a Mini than a Roland System 8 is to a Jupiter. So I just don't see any reason for criticism.
I agree with you, mate. "Big fail" is quite a harsh description of the awesomeness that Behringer is bringing to the synth world. I now have 6 different Behringer synths, some with keys others with CVs, and they ALL rock. Plus, I have also finally been able to delve into the eurorack realm with the Eurorack GO case.
Personally? Can't complain is an understatement. Grateful beyond measure? That would be a more accurate description. ^_~
I wonder why they have cloned so many mono synths? Easier to reproduce or make? Would like to see other things other than them such as big poly synths and drum machines recreated.
Cloning old outdated synths with annoying limitations in their designs seems quite stupid. The synth market is glutted with too much stuff. Want an old synth, then buy one. There's plenty on the used market. If somebody wants a new analog poly, then there are companies that make them, and they're far more capable than old vintage stuff. Virtually nobody is creating anything worth listening to on synths these days anyway, so I can't understand why people are so particular about everything.
@@Elhardt dont know where you get your music from but there are tons of great acts using synths. Anyway dont you like synths?
The Behringer Odyssey is an excellent keyboard. I am basically a polyphony guy too but the Odyssey has its place of prominence in my rig especially for sound effects. The modules fit the need for most people who don't have the space that you or I enjoy, so I get that. I won't fault Behringer for their strategy. It is a winning business model even if it doesn't meet your preferences. Can't wait for their UB-Xa.
You know you can buy 3rd party overlays for the DM12 which make it look like the Juno 106? Personally, I prefer the way it looks already, but sounds like you might be interested in something like that.
As for the rest of it. I don't see what Behringer is doing as a "big fail." First off, there is clearly a large market for what they're putting out there. Even now a couple of their synths are in the top 10 selling synths. Just last week or so 7 out of 10 of the best selling semi-modular synths were Behringers.
It would be cool to have a total replica of some of the classic synths. That said, they would also be quite space inefficient by today's standards of technology. Plus, space is definitely an issue for many, as you relate to a bit.
Also, I personally prefer how Behringer is bringing the classics into the future by including midi and CV capabilities.
Presets are always nice and I might very well prefer DCOs to VCOs for that reason, but I also like to make music from scratch. If I really want to be able to reconfigure a synth to a certain sound, I can take a picture of the settings.
At any rate, to each their own, but I'd say that "silent majority" seems to also be silent with their money ... based on what's selling the most, that is.
I see your points and agree to a certain point, I would like a choice between the two formats. Some companies offer keyboards and modules and that would be great! SYNTH ON!
@@PureAmbientDrone True. It would be nice to have keyboard options for more of their semi-modular synths. I'd probably opt for it for something like the Cat or the Pro 1.
At the same time, I can see why they wouldn't have for the K2, seeing as how Korg had already released the MS20 with keys at a similar price point. True the keys are mini-keys, so Behringer could have one-upped them on that I suppose ... .
Ah well. Quite pleased with my synth collection which is largely thanks to Behringer, so I'm not complaining. ^_~
Just FYI, you can have presets with VCOs
@@TjMoon91 oh yeah, forgot. Heard you couldn't at some point and it seems I can't shake the misinformation.
I have to disagree on the Deepmind. I did not grow up around the Juno's so I have no tie back to them. I like the modern look, it is much nicer than the 80's style. On that note, they clearly went crazy with feature creep adding to what the Juno was. I really wish they did this much extra on their other clones.... essentially turning them into something beyond a clone. But really the Deepmind is its own thing. As for the menus. I think they are a lot better than a Virus, the mod matrix is better than my Peak. They all have their gives and takes, but I think the Deepmind was Behringer's best executed synth so far.
And The Neutron...
looking at the comments it appears that nobody has a midi keyboard? Want an all-in-one? Waldorf makes a keyboard integrated with eurorack. KB37... 107hp- can fit a couple Behringers in there.
I'd find this video more respectful if you titled it "My opinion on ..." or "why I think..." but hey... anything for the views amirite? :)
Another thing just gonna chuck this out there whats any of your thoughts on the Studio sledge 2.0, roland xi, korg wavestate, korg minilogue xd and the deepmind 12. Its the synthesisers I'm currently looking at. I own a a Yamaha MODX, a Korg Krome and a 90s Yamaha CS1x. I'm getting to a point where I'm like menu diving sucks a big one on the programing lol. I want something where sliders and knobs are the tickets to sound creation. Building soundscapes to work along side my multi timber beast MODX I'm thinking of selling my other 2. I've herd the sledge has a few bugs but may of been patched. The wavestate even though has lots of control and beautiful wavestation type sounds to program properly needs lots of menu diving. This is why I thought mind 12 maybe an answer to the others. Xd I'm unsure and roland xi looks really unique specially on buiding drum patterns but maybe too basic for my workflow.
Appreciate your point of view and thanks for sharing. I bought the K-2 over the MS Mini because it just sounds better & I didn't want that miniature keyboard.
I love the behringer deepmind12 but I digress because I'm not a synth purist but a rock musician who likes to add electronic elements to my tracks and the versatility and affordability of this allows me just that
They were trying not to get sued by Roland, for the DeepMind. Seems like the early prototypes looked more like a Juno.
Going to disagree and not gonna lie I am a bit hypocritical because I have the MS20 Mini and I ADORE IT.
Having said that, there are 2 main reasons I love the module format:
1. Size - nuff said
2. To me by not copying the size and form factor (they do come pretty close in the interface), Behringer doesn't fall into the "ripoff" category (in my eyes). They deliver a value priced instrument for those of us that crave the sounds of our youth and too some degree it protects those that invest in the genuine vintage gear.
That being said; is there a big enough market to justify the tooling necessary for a spot-ish on remake of the Cat? The WASP? Do we really want more authentically sized remakes at the cost of longer lead times and higher price?
Thanks for your honesty! It opens up this talk to greater depth when folks are honest! SYNTH ON!
Yes, I agree! I mean, how would it even make sense to just completely clone every aspect of a synth even down to its original size? Synths of those days were big for a reason: old, antiquated technology. Even a modicum of understanding of the evolution of technology should suffice to know that we now do the same sorts of things as before with much smaller components. So why would Behringer make the synths so huge? would they just leave them mostly empty inside so they would be the same size? Doesn't even make sense ... .
I also like the modules. I connect them to my yamaha as one of the channels.
The modules look great too. Build quality is on point.
@@tylergates4075 Agreed! Thanks to their Go case, I am also fully addicted to Eurorack.
I prefer modular/desktop. I can use 1 midi keyboard (I have 3) to control all of my modules(DM12D, Pro1,Neutron,K2, Blofeld, Pittsburgh Modular 3900 Micro, Skulpt, CraftSynth2) vs standing in front a keybed synth to play it. I can sit in my studio chair and play them all from my 3 midi kB, and using their vst editor I can change each synth parameter from one location. I also have limited space.
Desktop vs the “keybedded” version each has their pluses and minuses. I love Behringer. No company, to include the original, can recreate a 30-40 year old synth 100%. Korg’s mini MS20 is not an exact clone of the original nor does it sound 100% the same. The K2 sounds close enough and the waveforms on oscilloscope look close enough to most people. I am not a synth snob.
I’m glad the DM12 doesn’t look like the 106. I own one of the first issue 106s and I use the DM12 more and have relegated the 106 to an almost non use synth. You can purchase a 106 template for the DM12, but I like the way it looks as it is. As for menu diving, for sound design that’s fine, I’m not using my synths live. Besides I have a Blofeld so menu diving is no big deal.
I hate my JDXi and will be replacing it a BARP Odyssey or a Sub25
I think for the 90 percentile of us that can’t afford Brand name synths, Behringer allows us to get into synthesizers and music. Peace.
Im with you Mr Drone. I'll sacrifice some analogness to get some presets. Give me some presets!!
well, they do clone the appearance in the functional sense, the knobs/sliders are at the same position mostly. Only the form factor is very small. (eurorack format)
Yes, i agree they also should make a full blown clone (physically, non eurorack format) for those who want the exact looks/shape. So people can choose: pay a bit more, to get the 1 on 1 clone (including keys and real size dimensions) or go with the eurorack version.
I had 4 Behringers(MODEL D, PRO 1, Odyssey and Crave) I kept the Ody and Crave because the Ody is a beauty.. Full size, all metal, sequencer, useable fx and those 3 filters.. OMG.. I love it and Crave? get one. it's good for bass and it's only 1 osc. AS for the System 8, I loved mine but it was trade for the muscle synth Matrixbrute. The System 8 is what I get if i'm starting over... That's the synth.
I am into EDM. I have the Behringer Deepmind 12D for poly analog and fast presets, an Arturia MatrixBrute for mono analog and more intricate patches (one knob per function). I have a Arturia DrumBrute as an analog drum computer, Arturia KeyStep Pro to sequence and play analog gear and a Roland TB-03 for nice acid lines. All of these have both CV, Midi and USB MIDI. All the Arturia stuff shines in coltrol voltage connections, so this gives me possibilities when I can eventually go into modular (to me this is an inevitability).
Firstly I am now saving for a Allen & Heath QU 32 for studio mixing. It has a high knob per function (works without a snake). Studio Reference Monitor set and a crappy kubes.
Secondly before I go to expand to modular, I want to have some digital synthesis possibilities as well. I will get a MC707, a good sampler (with cv connections, probably from Elektron) and have to decide between a Acces Virus TI2 and Novation Summit / Waldorf Quantum. That choice will be the color of sound(Access strong point) vs knob per function (Summit/Waldorf). I probably throw an Akai MPC X at it too. I also have a list of VST synths very popular these days in EDM, that will come third. My goal is play inbox and outbox whenever what mood. I am happy to get later more behringer clones, but I doubt I will. Either via VST (cheapest) or a remake of the model by actual brand (knob per function) will be probably the way to go.
Sometimes when you really want a specific sound it is just impossible to get it at a high knob per function. If there would be a sound clone of the Access Virus with more knob per function I would go for that. So far there I am not aware of such synth... It would be cool if Behringer would keep these modules, while giving them much midi CC and create a nice controller that does the knob per function part. Heck they could even then clone the visuals authentic to a MIDI controller device, and have CC premapped accordingly to the cloned module.
Al good and well ... I do understand if you feel that way about it ... but as you already told Korg made an actual remake model that looks like the original
This is also a reason why Behringer could not do a full replica and probably did a modular version
For in a studio environment these units are much more desirable than versions with full keyboards ... I do understand that some might like a version with the keyboard ... and want the units to look like the originals
However this is something that Roland did with there boutique line using a pro Proprietary connector
There are pros and cons to both methodes of doing this
Also note that a lot of synth company’s have been fighting against what behringer is doing to prevent them from making a model that looks authentic to the original
In the end it’s al about the sound that is similar or as close as it could get to the original
Totally with you that Behringer needs to be a Sound - Interface cloning company. The Model D is a Minimoog in sound and interface. All these mono synths with no memory are simple enough to do, but the UB-Xa needs to match the interactive front panel. If anyone were to clone a Polysix, then it has to have the same interface so you can interact with it in the same manner. The Model D would have been a massive fail if the panel had been set up like an Odyssey panel. The sound could be identical, but if you put the oscillator selector in the mixer and the LFO OSC 3 switch either on the far left or far right then it would have been silly and intentionally awkward for anyone that is used to a Mini. Sound is important, I mean you couldn't make a 3 oscillator clone that sounded like a digital sample with artifacts and aliasing, but the interface is equally important.
I have so many keybeds already. It's better to have desktop and rack modules that work fine with Arturia or Novation master keyboards than recreating 100% clones with keys. Most people complain that they want rack versions or desktop versions.
The word “clone” isn’t what Behringer is making. I’ll explain in a bit.
You’re not a mono synth guy. You’re not a “no presets guy.” You sir, are a breath of fresh air along with some other great channels out there.
You definitely have some balls even thinking of posting such a great video. The Behringer fanbois love their mediocre synths. Yes, I own a DM12, rd8, and even a 404 audio interface from years ago which I don’t use anymore. But their deluge of “good enough” mono synths simply aren’t. They are subpar.
Who remembers IBM clone computers? I do. I owned several back in the late 80s and 90s. These PCs weren’t just clones of the staple of which IBM was, they were better. They looked like IBMs, they were more expandable, they had more features out of the box, they were faster, and speed was the name of the game back then. Behringer needs to stay away from the ‘cloning’.
Behringer’ s ‘clones’ are what I consider sophomoric attempts at replicating legendary mono synths. It’s almost as if they are making the 5th sequel to the movie Home Alone over and over. Attempting to squeeze juice from a turnip and providing some low hanging fruit for the uneducated. Yeah, that’s harsh, and so is the sound of the majority of their synths. The odyssey and the deep mind models are the only synths worth spending your hard earned money on. I hope that will change with their promised products debuting in the next century.
If I cloned anything that was once spectacular or 😱 still is, wouldn’t you expect it to be a duplicate? According to the dictionary that is the word (duplicate) used to define a clone. I know Behringer’s definition of clone isn’t found in the English language dictionaries. Maybe it is in the Chinese ones though. 😑
k
One aspect of every company that they see but we don't is the SALES. They have the statistics and they know what sells and what not. We don't see that. I'm guessing Behringer wants to "try" the modules first and see what sells and what not. If a particular one sells good, they'd probably be inclined to put more money and time to make an authentic look for it. Just like what happened for the Poly D.
I would like thins to build an opitional rack keyboard like what Roland did for the boutiques to fix the issue. On the other hand for the polys the Unix looks promising but if they clone a prophet 4 they need to make it woth a Keybed and larger patch bank. Same goes for the future Jupiter 8 clone and the rest of the poly beasts.The cs80 must have simplified workflow because the old school Yamaha terminology for the cs line was very confusing. If they plan to do a cs 80 desktop might as well do a cs 60 because it’s less power packed and might work due to the simplicity. As for the mono synths I’m not complaining about the lack of patch storage because the mini moog and sh 101 are suuuuper easy to program so it might be a waist to modernize those clones.
I hear you. The first Behringer synth I bought was the Poly D, *because*
- it has a keyboard,
- it is, albeit not identical, similar enough to the Minimoog to make me feel at home immediately.
Patch storage isn‘t really necessary for this kind of straight-forward synth.
I guess Behringer is on a good way: the upcoming MonoPoly looks even more similar to the original, and the UB-Xa will be slimmer than the Obie but otherwise also very similar.
Hey Behringer WE NEED THE Alesis Andromeda A6 Clone... WITH KEYS!
Great idea!
k2 is used the least in my studio. actually thinking about selling it
I have to say, if any synth companies should have the tag "Big Fail", it wouldn't be Behringer. I would say firstly Roland have taken the 'all digital' route, but what their custimers were cryinh out for was re-releases of the SH101, SH2, Juno & Jupiter 8 (mainly). They failed to deliver, offering instead digital versions that admitedly do sound good, but it's not the same is it? Behringer came along and scratched that itch.
Then you've got your favourite synth company James - Sequential/Dave Smith instruments continuing to release instruments outwith the budget of the average musician. That's fine if you want to release premium-priced goods, but be prepared to get nudged out of the market when a company like Behringer can give the customer EXACTLY what they want at an incredibly competative price.
From that standpoint, it is the failure of the big synth companies themselves, and they only have themselves to blame if they start to lose sales and their footing in the synth market, because LISTENING to your customer base is important
I've got a few Behringer synth module's. And I know what you're talking about especially with the Deep Mind 12. Great unit but having to do all that paging through can get a bit nerve racking. But it's still an awesome sounding synth. Wondering if they'll make a poly 2600. Can you imagine? That would change everything. Kinda like what Auturia did with that new poly synth. Stay Blessed brother.
I get what you mean on the appeal of the look and approach to having a keyboard that makes it more inspirational. I have owned a Sub Phatty twice now. I cut off the keybed on my current one and at one point tried to sell it. But as it was for me always an inspiration to play and using an external keyboard or a controller when I removed the 25 key, keyboard didn’t bother me over having the smaller foot print but people weren’t interested in paying what I was asking and some thought it was less appealing. So, for behringer I get why they decided to do what they did but a whole and singular instrument is something that is a valued option even in a mono synth for many. But keyboard controllers aren’t hard to come by either though it is another thing when it comes to convenience.
I appreciate your point of view, and as a studio guy it makes sense to have nice keyboards. But I gig a lot (at least before 2020) and I've made a pact with myself that I will only buy modules from now on, which I control from my keystep pro. I use the ms-101 for all bass but since I got my keystep pro the keyboard on it is just extra space on my stand and in my car :/
I definitely agree with this. Probably the biggest reason why I didn't get a DeepMind is the fact that it looks like a cheap toy keyboard.
Hence I got the DM12D. Awesome, and I use my Summit to play. I didn't want or need yet another keyboard, so this is perfect. And the sound is gorgeous.
Problems are price and place... Behringer is not making just one clone, they made a ton of clones ! And they want you to buy all.. So price is an important part. But for users the problem is the place. I DONT want anymore keyboards I don't have the place to store 10 or 20 full size machines. I can buy clones without keyboard. I already have many GOOD Midi keyboards I don't need more _cheap_ ones.
So I understand your point of view but I think this is all the contrary of a fail, Behringer is doing things the right way if they want to sell more units... Most of us can afford a keyboard version but we can't extend easily our home studio surface...
If Behringer made an exact clone(Tolex case and all) of the ARP 2600, I’d be all over that!
Yeah and its seems the Behringer option is the only one for so many people. The real deal is way out of reach more most.
Just sample any mono desktop, like an mpc and you can not only store them but theyre polyphonic as well 👍
No major complaints with Behringer although I'd like a bit more attention to detail for example the envelopes not being as snappy on their Cat and Pro One or the noise generator on the MS1 not being the same but the sound and prices are great but I'd pay a bit more for an exact replica in the sound department. Also wish they would release models with presets. Not that bothered with keyboards and like the small form factor. Also would prefer it if they didnt tease us with new releases that then take ages to hit the shelves, would rather they didn't bother mentioning it until they are in a position to manufacture but what they have achieved so far is fantastic.
I sequence and use a MIDI guitar. No keyboard please.
I’m still waiting on a Behringer Poly D I ordered the second week of February through Guitar Center. Talked to the manager at the one closest to me at the end of May and was told they would be getting some on June 24. That’s come and gone and still nothing. Getting really frustrated with it.
Wack. Call around
Michael Reed Thanks 🙏
There is a market that wants to have a 100% clone (visual, layouut, sound). There are many approaches to synths all cater different users. To me the main thing should serving to whatever comes out my speakres as a first priority, and second that it works with my creative workflow. The latter means to me that I want as much tactile functionality and and as least neccesary menyu diving as possible. I would even say lets not clone the l;ayouut perse, why not even improve the layout! Creative workflow to me is that i can quickly impulsively grab a knob change it, grab another knob change it too. if the two simple actions mean I have to drill two times to 8 levels deep menu's I likely dont even use the functionality at all. So I want as much visability as possible. What good is it if a thing has 2000 features, but you dont use these if you cant even find them? The question then is when designing, what will be the most often used functionalities and break those out the menu's.
if two two main things are taken care first. Yes why not make a ms-20 clone look like the old thing with same colors etc. I am not a synth collector, I just want to make some music in an intuitive fast tactile way. I dont want a synthesizer to only look at and think oh boy that's such great 1 on 1 clone I really couldnt care less. I want the sound cloned and a tactile one knop per function layout and storage of set parameters. That's it.
I agree, we’ve got 10 fingers for a reason. Mono synths are antiquated, you don’t see anyone using rotary phones. I always wanted an ARP 2600 but 4K for a mono synth is insane
Mono synths are antiquated but still musically useful. Nearly every instrument in an orchestra is monophonic. If you stop thinking like a keyboard player and focus on playing an expressive line, than one note can be plenty.
Depends on the music you make, I prefer monos for bass and arps etc different sound quality to a poly. I dont think 4K for a classic replica is that expensive, it will be collectable and the price will increase over time, better than putting 4k in a bank.
More polyphony does not always translate into better music. A lot music made with monosynths will do circles around modern recordings.
Ok. So, the CS-80 clone should weigh 300 lbs, have a mini version of the voices for 1 patch memory, and a contact point poly aftertouch keyboard. Or it'll be another fail? We all have opinions...
Wise words : "I like any synth !" As 'ancient' I often hear youngsters say : that synth sounds 'bad'. And they all go crazy for analog modulars and analog synths with knobs. Well they have no clue. 'Bad' sounds simply do not exist. If a synth or synth patch sounds bad, it means you play an arrangement that doesn't fit the sound. That's what a teacher in Music philosophy taught me many many years ago and I never forgot those wise words... On the other hand, I think the whole current demand for analog synths is based on hype as a result of marketing and the believe that some of the old synths offer something 'magical' that can't be found in it's digital counterpart. First of al it's nothing but a misunderstanding that analog sounds 'better' or 'warmer' than digital. Blind tests, even at university level have proven that people can not hear the difference between analog and digital synths where as similar sounds were made on digital and analog synths (i.e. simple string pads, brass sounds, bass, ...) And secondly, there is no tool or instrument that can measure 'warmth' or depth or quality in a sound. I can make a Juno 60 look pale with a plugin like Massive from NI with a 'fat' sound that simply will burn your speakers...LOL. So how would you describe 'warmth' in a synth ? If you know how, you can make any synth sound 'warm'. And that is the problem. A lot of synth hobbyists know how to turn knobs on their synths but when it comes to designing sounds, that seems to be a whole different league... And finally, in a mastered music production, it is impossible to say whether a real 808, samples or an 808 clone were used...Try it, you'll never succeed. I often get the question how I make bass sound so deep in my mixes. I use a Novation V-station plugin for starters, the rest I've learned during my training in the 80's... :-)
There is something to be said for the physical interaction with the controls if you like the sound being controlled.
But once something is digitized at CD audio quality or better, humans can’t tell the difference, absolutely. I’m not a fan of analog, mono, synths myself. Digital is fine.
This is something I always see older people say, most "youngsters" will just be getting these sounds out of software. Its the older people who actually have significant money invested in this stuff that are saying things like that.
Absolute agree with you !
One word: eurorack. The Behringer modules eurorack compatibility justifies the clone modules from an innovative standpoint.
Agreed! True, it would be nice to have DCOs for presets, but that wouldn't translate so much to eurorack anyway --- which is the best IMO thing Behringer has done to bring the clones into the future.
THAT is a great point. Thats why I love the Model D and the Neutron. Once I get into Euro, they simply could be added as modules to the rack. That said, I really want to see them come out with a successor to the DM12. Make it pretty, upgrade the keybed, charge more if you have to. People would pay for the improvements--and Behringer could sill make a grip based on their manufacturing process.
Amen! That's certainly among the reasons I love my Model D and Neutron. They sound great too.
Bad idea, they've posted on their group that keyboards are outselling modules. So no need for eurocrap. Fullsize keyboards ftw!
Some people don't like Behringer synts because they cost too little
ms-1 ,td-3 paired with a subharmonicon
For those people here in the comments who actually disagree with PAD and say that the keyboard players are in a small majority; you guys are completely wrong! Behringer did post the following on their page:
"Modules sell at a rate of around 10% of the standalone synths, unless they in the US$ 300 and below category. Thats often not worth the investment as product development is very expensive. Also often a module is not possible due to the real estate needed for the controls and knobs. Repeatedly shouting for modules isn't very helpful as we do lots of market research, especially with large retailers. "
Here is the screenshot of the post: imgur.com/a/9nEKrXG
There you have it right from the source, keyboards outsell modules. I completely agree with PAD I don't like their eurorack format they should stick to the Poly D format for their mono synths.
behringer oddesy - has keyboard
behringer ms-1 - has keyboard
behringer poly d - has keyboard
behringer monopoly - has keyboard
behringer - vc340 - has keyboard
behringer deepmind 12 - has keyboard
behringer deepmind 6 - has keyboard
td-3 has - key buttons
crave has keys - has key buttons
.....
Some of those you mentioned were not on the market at the time of this video. Maybe they heard me lol and started adding keys to more of their clones. They do subscribe to my channel. :)
@@PureAmbientDrone YEH.. i noticed browsing your recent videos that you now have some behringer synths... ppg will be awesome, they are on a roll and seem to be making more reliable synths than sequential currently... or moog.
@@cresshead yes the monopoly is very nice! I still have the dm12 too.
Most B clones lack the power, speed and character of the originals. That's a bigger issue tbh! From a selling point I agree that the looks are important. But don't forget how much space many synths take.
Perhaps there are legal issues with making it look too much like the original.
If you got more into modules maybe you'd have a bit more space!
Sure, I understand your point. Of course I love the big synths and the interaction with them fits my workflow a bit better. That said though, I am into modules for jamming see here: ua-cam.com/play/PLwl7Y_-y0RA2BGyWho-cKdMdNnDGy76um.html
@@PureAmbientDrone Cool. Yes it depends on ones workflow. Rick Wakeman would def agree with you! Most of my stuff goes through a hardware sequencer so I only really need one keybed to work out the part for that synth and then it's triggered from the sequencer thereafter. 😃
This is where i disagree and behringer has not failed. Quite the opposite! Also i love the modules🤷🏼♂️ and even better the sound ratio to pricepoint is the best EVER!
Thank you for sharing your opinion, sir. This helps me understand why some of my online searches show zero Behringer gear, but sites like Thomann rank those highly. To your point, it depends on what you’re after. I bought the Crave a few months ago: no (piano) keyboard, not poly - but it has a sequencer, arpeggiator, OSC, VCO, ENV, and I use it to create instant jam tracks to play acoustic drums with. And i’m looking for my next, second, analogue synth now, as i’ve totally loved using the Crave. It can be monophonic, all I need is a MIDI In. :-)
With all due respect, but I can't understand what the "big fail" is that you are talking about. A few points:
1) There's the PolyD, Mono Poly, MS-1 and Odissey synths with keyboards. They all sound and feel like the thing they are cloning (PolyD goes even beyond that)
2) Making a clone that has the control surface of a synth but not the keyboard is what many people want: saves desk space, while keeping the experience of interacting with the original instrument. Many people prefer to control synths via a high-quality master keyboard, rather than a cheap keyboard (actually some of the original models came with low quality keybeds). It's the fiddling with knobs and buttons and lack of menu diving that are really important. I love my Korg MS-20 mini, but that mini-keyboard feels like a toy.
3) If there is such a "silent majority" craving for keyboard synths, why don't they speak up ?... What I see is Behringer modules selling very, very well, which means that a lot of people are happy with Behringer's decision
4) Describing a product line choice as "big fail" is strange when a large share of the market is happy with said choice. And even more when Behringer is indeed making keyboard synths (PolyD, Monopoly, SH-101, Odissey , Deepmind,etc).
Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with Behringer in any way, just trying to be fair here.
lol, you're wrong dude. Behringer themselves said that keyboards are outselling modules. Stop reading those lame posts on forums in which everyone and his mom begs for modules. Here is a screenshot of the post in which Behringer made that claim. imgur.com/a/9nEKrXG The only big fail here is those kids who think modules are outselling keyboards lmao.
I'm with you on this . They could even give customers the options of a key or keyless unit. Perhaps do a market survey first and work out what's more viable for them. From about their second clone I did think to myself , "ahh ok good synth but the format is gonna get tired soon.
Can you imagine how much more appealing the neutron would have been with pitch bend wheels and keys.
The second option is what I hope they do, so after they get the guts made they can redesign some and add the keyboard to give more choice. SYNTH ON!
@@PureAmbientDrone Yep 100% . Most companies ie: Dsi did the reverse which I think is very consumer considerate. Keyboard first then maybe the module . Ok it would be impractical to do this every single time, but a little option here and there I think, would go a long way and draw a few more customers into the door.
Or perhaps make something like the Waldorf KB37 to house one or two of their modules.
@@PureAmbientDrone . That is a good idea . Or even bring out a universal keyboard that can fit the width of the modules ( providing they are all bang on the same ), like you have with the roland boutiques and provide proper pitch and mod wheels ( no touch ribbon).
Anyways same to you , synth on my freind ✌🏾
Just had another thought ( sorry to string this thread out . ) I wonder if one of the reason behind Behringer's format is part of copyright infringement dodging . I suppose it gives them a better leg to stand on in court should it come to it .
I am looking for a cheap synthesizers. Whether poly or Holy. I just want to have fun. to become happy . Which you can recommend me, you have so many .What is good for fun
The deepmind 12 is a fantastic analog poly that will keep you busy learning and exploring for a while. Imho
Behringer has always been my value buy. Bang for the buck beyond other manufacturers. However, it is so frustrating that they slightly miss the mark on synths. I have had a Model D and Deepmind (still have DM) but what would keep me from selling would be presets (and effects?) for the Model D - I would pay for the memory module for sure because the D sounds really good, and for the Deepmind a nice big clear touchscreen....perhaps another 1-200 dollars. The screen is too cheap and difficult to navigate for us with old eyes. That being said I would buy a Deepmind X with Rom samples and the synth engine with a beautiful touch sensitive 5" screen. I am on record on the CS80 clone, if it sounds like a CS80, has user presets I will nominate Uli for sainthood.... ({-;)
Monopoly bonopoly... rocks....I never experienced the analog synths... but I have come to love the analog sounds and controls because of behringer...thank you behringer....but I have found through UA-cam friends compared to moog..waldorf..ds and sequtial...you get what u pay for...to each his own
Well i m pretty new to synths overall . But i have get some moogs Matriarch & Grandmother & DFAM and behringer to . Model D and Vocoder VC 340 .
Buy a Roland original VP 330 ? NO thanx overpriced "vintage" recap etc etc problems And the Behringer looks just as the original So that was the first thing i did get :)
OK the Model D maybe is small and needs a external keyboard . But for that money its excellent , and i like them with knobs That is straight forward
easy to use. Make menus dive in and under menus etc etc thats cheap low quality thinking imo . Keep it as little screentime as possible .
And i hope they will make more fullsize synths in the future . They are more then welcome to replicate a Memorymoog . and bring even more oscillators to it . :)
I have a deepmind 6 and I prefer it to my oberheim matrix !
Ehm, deepmind isn't a clone?
It is and its not. But its very close to a Juno. So yes you can say they were going for that sound IMHO but they didn't try for the look and feel like they are with the Poly D, say. SYNTH ON!
I don't really care about the lack of a keyboard as you can permanently hook one up to a midi keyboard or whatever even if you picked up some used midi keyboards for each one but I think the smaller size is a bit of a bummer
Love your vids man and your synth selection is epic keep up the good work you do. I'm currently building my synth collection my next on the list is the deep mind 12. Just a thought on what you said. Your not too keen on behringer bringing out synths which can't store presets for example the poly D. But you would need a screen of some sort to save your sound designs unless you had motorised faders and a ton of buttons for bank selects lol or possibly a computer librarian which mapped your slider positions. If you took the screen out of the deep mind 12 and give it some juno paint job you probably wouldn't be able to save your fine work. Its just a thought I don't mean anything by it. Perhaps there some wizard trickery that you synth guys know about that I don't know about on analog gear. The deep mind 12 would be my 1st analog synth so I'm a noob but I do have a keen background on synthesisers lol.
I had a Behringer crave that was just totally impossible to tune. It's a good material as a toy for making weird noises but if you want to make music...go see elsewhere !
My Crave sounds great and is easy to tune.
There are a couple of trimpots near the tuning knobs. You need to adjust them to be able to tune it properly. I'm not sure why they didn't mention that in the manual though!
I am 100% with you!!!
I respectfully disagree with the premise that synthesizers need integrated keyboards today. If you enjoy being surrounded by keyboards, that's fine, but with the enormous choice and quality of controller keyboards available today, an integrated keyboard on every synth seems unnecessary. And modules are not necessarily about saving space: With MIDI, USB and sequencers (DAW), being surrounded by physical keyboards is no longer a prerequisite. Like many, I still have an extensive collection of vintage synths but, IMHO, there is no reason to harass or harangue Behringer. To paraphrase Obi Wan, These are not the programming nightmare rack modules of the 90's.