The Optic Nobody Likes Enough to Keep
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- Опубліковано 27 сер 2024
- The Elcan Specter DR 1x/4x. No other optic is as lionized as this one; usually by people who don't own them any more.
$1700 is a lot to pay for two prism scopes bolted to a fidget spinner, with a BDC reticle calibrated for a barrel length nobody uses and a cartridge nobody shoots. But it's got good glass.
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Counterpoint by #1 Elcan Lover BrassFacts:
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Ahh, let the salt flow.
Well done articulating your points. Thank you
If he loves elcans so much…..why doesn’t he marry them????
@@CertifiedBullpupHater he lives in Utah specifically because of their permissive attitude towards non-traditional marriage.
@@Hoplopfheil Heh..imagine living in Utah…he must not be smart
The main issue with this optic is that you can't buy it until Peacekeeper lvl3
It's 30k on flea market, you don't need peacekeeper lmao
@@ForganMreeman-0 me in .13....
This got me rolling😂😊
@@dic-vr2mx same i expected this but didnt think im gonna find someone making this joke
the moment i found out the vids, i'll knew that there will be someone talking about Tarkov XD
this is a great, cheap, easily accesible option for an optic with variable zoom and even a built in iron sight.... in Tarkov, anyway.
Love it
Even there the 1x just doesn't feel right
still sucks ass in tarkov
i love this one at least with the last rework on it it s goooooooooooooood!
The iron sight is dog tho
As a support dude in SOF, we weren't given a ton of options in terms of weapons/optics. The Operators usually took a gun box with multiple optics, and potentially a second upper, to configure their rifles for the mission profile. I always had my M4 that would have to stay constant from the moment it left the arms room to the moment it went back in. In light of this, the Elcan was a pretty decent "do-it-all" optic. I think every critique offered in this video is valid, but I've acquired an irrational love for the Elcan after years of lugging it around. I also had an irrational love for the ACOG when I was conventional side too. I guess you go with what you know.
Yeah I feel the same way, You learn to work around the small issues you find and make do... I shot with an rco so much that anything within 20 meters I was just looking over the sight and putting rounds on target. Also just turning a corner too fast with nods on and slamming my sight into a light fixture or shelf or something and jsut keeping on moving without even worrying about the sight.... As long as its a decent sight that can get the shit beat out of it and still hold a zero its going to be more useful in a military sense than some wild fancy sight that can do it all... I need a sight that when I inevitably trip while getting out of an mrap and fall flat on my gat it still works lol
Question, what is a support guy in SOF? I was under the impression that SOF support were the guys that get gear and vehicles ready for the operators, and didn’t actually see combat. Am I way off base here? Just asking because I’m fascinated with anything special
@@dipsylogic1715 There's a couple dimensions to it. "Support" encompasses quite a few MOSs. Some of them are usually kept in the rear by doctrine (typically intel analysts or certain logistics dudes), others are implicitly expected to be forward with teams, or to be in positions where taking contact is likely (CRD, SOT-As, and the weird edge case of EOD come to mind). In practice, a lot of ODAs (in the SF world) will bring enablers who they think are particularly solid, or have a unique talent the team can't handle organically. A lot of that comes down to the team's individual manning and mission requirements, though personalities also play a heavy role. If they like you, you can be requested by name and brought outside the wire regularly. If you cross them, you can be fired (best case scenario, you get reassigned to a big FOB and get put in charge of some low impact mission that you can't likely fuck up. More likely, and worst case scenario, is you straight up get kicked off the exercise/deployment with your reputation in tatters). As for equipment, it varies. Some enablers are able to draw SPEAR issued gear, or get their own; most just use RFI issue while downrange.
Real world example, consider the 2017 Niger Ambush. 2 of the 4 men killed were support personnel, though they've been upgraded to honorary Green Berets because of the heroism they showed in a really rough firefight. Both of them were brought along to plus up the team's numbers, but also because they were by all accounts incredibly solid dudes.
@@chrismartin8829 WOW, ok I did not know the support guys could be that involved or had that wide of an array of positions. Very cool, thanks!!
@@dipsylogic1715 Oh yeah, support guys see more action than main guys lot of the time.
I was in Ranger Batt years ago and used an Elcan on multiple deployments. They were exactly what we were looking for when it came to versatility. Its ability to go 1x - 4x, the dot, illuminated reticle, this was a superior tool and good middle ground between our eotechs and acogs. Once they were made available, everyone turned in their previous optics and traded them in for the Elcans.
Interesting
You can’t put military opinions on here
@@guntypesnlifegripeswhy not tho?
I was gonna say Ranger Regiment and MARSOC seem to like them good enough. One of the things he didn’t really touch on was durability which is why I’d never run an LPVO on a rifle I plan to fight with. I’ve seen an ACOG equipped rifle slung on a dude who fell halfway down a mountain hold zero and from what I hear the Spectre is as hardy.
@@jackncoke8527 seem to be doing fairly well with them in ukraine
I used to own several EOTechs, MRO's, ACOGs and others. Now, after probably 7 years of owning/shooting AR's, I have 2x Aimpoint T2's, 1x Aimpoint T1, 1x Aimpoint H2, 1x Aimpoint CompM5, and 2x SIG Romeo4T. Hop's right. The micro red dot doesn't look flashy or cool, but they just work, they're light, and their batteries go forever. Can't really ask for more than that.
Whats the difference between an aimpoint t2 and aimpoint h2?
Yeah and you can run it in conjunction with an lpvo if you want. Get the best of all worlds.
I am an eotech fan, the advantages outweigh the battery life which isn't really as big of an issue if you just turn it off when you're not using it
@@rodiculous9464 you obviously haven't had any turn into a paperweight. I had 2
@@joelerk6298 they're nearly the exact same, but the T2 is marketed towards military and police, and it has 4 night settings so it can be paired with night vision if you got them Bruce Wayne bucks. The H2 is the civi/hunters version of the T2 with no night modes to cycle through and it's allegedly better at handling extreme weather conditions, can't go wrong with either of em
Tired of having the elcan blocking your charging handle? Then we have the solution for you: Put it in the PTR91 and enjoy your new dmr. That way you can solve the issue and STILL absolutely hate the result!
And hopefully you have a cheek riser on your stock lol! I didn't even think about it when I first bought a PTR, and just threw a magnified optic on there cause it's 308, right? and then realized I couldn't cheek weld for shit because the iron sights are already so low profile that the optic sits a solid couple inches above where your line of sight would be lmao
@@AccordionTheif Late reply, just stumbled across the thread. Blackhawk still makes a cheek pad that straps onto a rifle stock. I had one on an M1A for a while and it worked quite well. I was planning on getting one for my PTR91 build (based loosely on the current German G3A3ZF) but happened to find a vendor who had a supply of G3SG1 cheekpieces with tension screws. A little more research found someone who had both (they're different lengths) the tubular inserts the cheekpiece rides in. Hoalt's die Fress' und nimm's moa Geld, as they might say in Bavaria.
Either would provide an excellent cheek riser for an HK91 clone.
If you have an Elcan blocking the charging handle then that just means you have it mounted incorrectly AND you’re using the wrong buttstock position.
Unless you’re 7 feet tall or are a gorilla you shouldn’t have your stock all the way open, which is what makes people mount the optic so far back.
@@TheSaxualHealer hop is literally a super tall gorilla armed monster lol
@@TheSaxualHealer I was taught to adjust my stock to the length of my forearm, which for some ppl like me is fully extended.
Joined the Army in 2007. Had M16A2 with iron sights in Basic. M4A1 with M68 CCO in AIT. Got to my first unit, and got an M4 with regular Trijicon ACOG for my first Afghanistan deployment in 2008. Went to Iraq in 2009 with an EOTech Holographic sight. Third and final deployment back to Afghanistan in 2011 with the Elcan Spectre.
Specter was my favorite of all the different sights I deployed with. If I was buying my own AR, with the extra cash to drop, I'd buy one. Buuuuttttttt I also never actually shot in anger, was never in combat. Drove trucks, sat in the turret, walked through various villages in both places, but never engaged in direct fire, so I cannot honestly give a true combat impression of any of the sights. Though I'd take an EOTech over M68 CCO, and an ACOG over both of those, with the Elcan over all them if given the option, hands down.
Always had trouble shooting any of those sights under NVG, always ended up relying on the IR lasers from my PEQ15, but was happy with the Elcan and felt most comfortable with the idea that on a patrol if I was engaged in the valley outside the village at long range, or in the village itself at close range, that would have been the best compromise for dealing with either situation on the same patrol. Never had any issues related to the charging handle or other ergonomics or what have you
Never shot a CCO with a separate flip up/down magnifier like I've seen others have, or any other combo solutions, though I can't say I'm a fan of the idea of having a scope overhanging the side of my weapon just asking to get caught on either my gear, doorway, the truck or anything else out in the environment. Considering there are guys who are legit way more badass than I'll ever dream of being, who have earned Tabs and whatnot, that like that setup, it's probably not all that big of a deal... but if I'm going into a fight right now and you offer me either option, I'll take the Elcan I know over a combo flip magnifier and red dot I have never trained with...
Just my .02 and limited experiences, overall was, and is/am a fan of the Specter
The SpecterDR excels at two things, giving cops and soldiers who break things often a bomb proof do-it-all variable optic and it's dummy proof for said category of people. When you're getting them for 980 bucks a piece it's actually really worth it. For your average civilian shooter, there are better options. I still run one, however I didn't pay 2k for it either.
Yup, the Elcan‘s strength is definitely that it does it all: quick change magnification like a rds + magnifier, one optic solution like an LPVO and (on paper) nv compatability and compactness like an rds.
When you first show up to Ranger battalion, this was essentially what you get when you show up as a private. As soon a soon got my tab I ditched it for an Eotech, that said it was a bulletproof optic, and the 1-4 was a nice touch.
Anything that can take people wailling on them while attached to a SAW/SCAR/240 etc… for years on end in hostile environments is a pretty good optic.
There’s been a lot of bad guys killed over the years with the ELCAN.
When were you in batt?
@@lgdurocher got out in 19’
@@familywarriorproject5145 what company at 2nd batt
exact opposite here eotech and Scarl first, upgraded to Elcan and m18.
@@danielmcfadden9355 I doubt that
The Elcan Specter is a infanty optic in my mind, it is made to be rugged and work in any conditions. I used ELCAN on rifels and light and heavy machineguns. I find them super easy to use, you need to keep in mind we can use night optics with the ELCAN scopes (true the specter is the first where it accualy works well).
If you get a Specter, you need to remember its a workhorse, not a ferrari.
the only real issue is the price tho. it's a workhorse with ferrari price tag.
I used that in Afghanistan it's my favorite optic bar none. We don't use Optics under NVG's that's what a peq is for. The reason I don't like the Acog is there's no chin position for the rmr, so you have a different site picture everytime. In a stress situation it's not great having a over optic rmr. Elcan has more clarity and wider FOV which for me is a key deal if you're taking contact.
If you own the night that's valid. A brutally honest review needs to address the fact that light intensification is out there and optics need to contend with the fact that you may not be able to put on a lights show.
As Titanium Rain pointed out, PEQ is rapidly becoming, if not already, obsolete. Running active IR works when you're hunting feral hogs or 16 year old goat herders with 40 year old AKs. Someone with even a Gen 1 NVG? Not so much.
The Australian army got these for the new ef88 styre and I can confirm after using it in field and urban training that it's a big step up from the crap we had on our f88's but it is terrible for alot of little situations as mentioned here. Nvg, urban fighting in and around small loopholes in walls or around doors and cars just a nightmare because of the small eye box. Great video!
Still so much better than the crappy stock steyr sights I shot them I admit the only gun I've ever shot cus being 15 in Australia doesn't really do any favours (the only reason I managed to shoot the f88 was for cadets great time btw) hated the way the sight looked and hated the design of the optic itself
Really wished I managed to use the spectre but beggars can't be choosers lol
I will buy one for $100 from the Taliban
Unfortunately it wasn't the Canadians that left all their armaments behind
😂🤦🏻♂️
Well they will be here soon , so there will be all kinds of deals going down , I’m sure .
@@NCrdwlf I’ll be buying them!
@@evergreenrider You have to go places to leave things behind! j/k I love my canuckbros and I know they were over there earlier...
Elcan needs to update this optic. I really like the concept of a 1x/4x over a 1-4x.
What it REALLY needs is its price dropped between $600-$800. It becomes exceedingly more attractive at the $1200ish price point.
Agree
@@seandlax9 Nah bro. Don't get me wrong. I would love if the priced dropped that low. But it's worth more than $600-$800 when you're paying fucking $900 for an Aimpoint CompM5. I could see the price dropping to MAYBE $1500, but I doubt it. If anything it's only gone up in price.
@@AdoreYouInAshXI no I think he meant by 600-800. So a 1200 dollar scope instead of 1800-2000 dollar one
@@thebinarysquad5962 Yeah, I see what you're saying. I still think it's worth more than $1200 with the built in mount and glass quality. Like I said, I could see $1500 being a reasonable price. That'll never happen though because they continue to sell all day at the current price point, unfortunately. What they really need to do is release an updated version of the optic. Maybe something with a different mounting system.
I LOVE the aesthetics of the Elcan! Especially on most M4/AR-15 shaped rifles it has the perfect proportions/shape to match most of those rifle Bodys!
And in video games where "eye box" does't exist, the 1-4x is just perfect! :D
This video brings back memories... I went through a mid-life optic crisis like six, seven years ago. Kept rotating different scopes on my AR's all the time for awhile.
At one point I scored an Elcan SpecterDR off an ebay for quite a deal. But yeah, ended selling it soon afterward for most the reasons mentioned.
Don't know about others, but the 3rd SFG soldiers I was embedded with in 2012 loved their Elcans Specters.
When I asked about them, the Company CO noted: "They're like cheating. They make you think you're a good shooter. You're not. It's just a good optic."
I've never owned one, but that's a pretty good recommendation if I ever heard one.
Mind you that's 2012, before the modern era of LPVOs really took off. It really comes up short in every way except its deserved reputation of being basically indestructible compared to other stuff on the market now.
@@RADIOACTIVEBUNY True. Very astute point. Sometimes I forget that it's been 7+ years since that deployment.
I would only counter with saying that the Trijicon ACOG has been around for longer and is still a high quality optic, which I personally own and run (before the boating accident, of course).
Maybe I'm just biased and set in my ways, but I've never really encountered a situation where I had a LPVO and used some middle ground; it's either 1x or 6x/8x/etc. So in the case of the Specter, it's really easy to just throw the switch and go from one to the other, without have to worry about the middle area. The eye relief doesn't really bother me, but again, I'm used to using an ACOG, so maybe I'm just used to it.
Perhaps this is one of those cases, similar to the 1911, where if I used it, or encountered it, while deployed/still in, then it must be the end-all-be-all and am hesitant to adopt anything new and unorthodox to my experiences.
Cheers.
@@Johnny_Cash_Flow The indestructible portion is why the elcan and rco are still used. Throw the whole rifle out a 3 story window and it will still hold zero. Or in my personal experience, slam it into a wall while trying to do mout with nods on.. or trip getting out of a mrap and belly flop directly onto my rifle.
@@Johnny_Cash_Flow Most people who don't like LVPOs are the ones who haven't cleared the biggest hurdle with them, which is finding the right LVPO for them (right combo of eyebox, weight, etc, etc, etc). Once you find the one, they're fantastic. Being able to go 1x, 2x, 4x, 6x, and 8x in an optic that is easy for me to use and has fantastic glass (for me it was a nightforce) is stupidly convenient.
@@seandlax9 until you drop the rifle a little to hard.
Tacswap is full of like-new stuff the boog bois bought after a case of white claws; then they sober up and remember they owe their dad rent for the month.
Lmao yes. I fuckin love tac swap
that's some funny shit, right there! 🤣
What’s tacswap
I never find any deals on Tac Swap ..... seems as if everything is $5 less than new
@@TheAsheybabe89 it’s like Craigslist but for guns and optics and general stuff like that. I hate to use the word “tactical” but it’s pretty much a place for selling stuff like that. I’ve found some nice stuff on there a few times.
I've never had much hands on with one. I got to shoot it on the F88 (1-4 version) when working with the Aussies, and the fixed 4x version when working with the British. I liked it a lot, but my shooting wasn't super extensive. A few hundred rounds out of each and never while doing anything particularly 'dynamic'. You've provided some good context here, which is why I appreciate your channel. Cheers!
Eye releafe on these was a struggle to get used to when the British army adopted them. We use an alcan with only x4 instead of the variable one and have a red dot made by shield instead of iron sights. It's a good optic but when you're breathing out your arse you don't particularly want to be struggling with eye releafe.
I never understood how people could have issues with eye relief with scopes on a rifle that has an adjustable stock. I run a fixed stock, the length of an A1 stock, and have no trouble with eye relief using a Trijicon TA31. If you're shooting AR15 irons then you want your eye to be just as close anyways; it's why nose-to-charging-handle was taught for so long. I think consistent cheek welds and other basic fundamentals of shooting a rifle are just out of fashion.
@@LawlessNate you are aware the SA80 isn't adjustable right?
@@LawlessNate Consistent cheek weld is a fundamental of marksmanship, but it's not always attainable. The proper cheek weld during prone might not be achievable while standing or vice versa.
I’m a many year Elcan owner and have no plans to ditch mine. I’ve got ACOGS, an older Eotech, an H1, a T1, PRO, and a few lesser red dots as well as traditional magnified optics and each has its quirks. The only negative mentioned here that I’ve had is that it is a heavy optic compared to some of the others. But for me everything works well on it. There are more modern options and I would like to see them update the DR series, but I have no reason to change. I ultimately love the durability as well. I have been rough on this optic and it laughs at abuse. If I ran out of ammo I know I could tie it to the end of some 550 cord and twirl it around inflicting massive head trauma on all in my path and at the end of the day it would be fine after rinsing off the blood and bone chips.
mf, the using elcan as a rock to swing at enemies part made me giggle.
The elcan is and has been a battle tested optic for a while now where a lot of this never stuff really hasn't which is why I imagine the military was running this stuff forever same with the Acogs and eotecs. They aren't pretty and flashy like these newer LVPOs but they are battle tested and run when you need them too
I love this optic, I been running this optic the last 7 years in kabul running the streets and surrounding areas all the way up to we had to bail out. Many of times it came in handy.
Okay let me post why I as a multi year elcan shooter couldn't hold onto the thing.
1- The first and most important thing for me is the MOA they chose for their dot, at 1x being 6MOA and at 4x being 1.5 MOA. This gave me far less precision at 1x than almost any other option I've shot with, being a long time ACOG, Eotech, and Aimpoint professional end user. Believe it or not, past 25 meters that 6MOA really starts to make a difference, and I don't like the concept of having to swap to 4X for anything past 25 if I want a cunt hair of precision.
2- The scope shadow/eye box. While the actual light transmission and image clarity of the optic is amazing, in unconventional stances it can be difficult to get behind the eye box without straining and making micro adjustments to your stance that end up slowing you down. Shooting a specter DR from the lower rungs of a VTAC barrier where you have to shift and contort your body to fit the shots through the slats is exponentionally more difficult on a specter than an eotech or likewise optic.
3- Passive aiming. Due to the sensitive eye box and the odd height over bore, it was always incredibly difficult to line up my night vision behind the specter, additionally light transmission just wasn't enough to get a nice, clear, bright picture of my target.
4- The adjustment system. So, while Armament Tech touts the adjustments as robust, I found that the dials are not tactile and didn't give me enough positive feedback during zeroing/adjusting to be fully confident of the adjustment. They were also super stiff and often required the use of a multi tool to turn the dials, thereby giving an additional decrease to the positive feedback.
5- Daylight brightness- The daylight brightness was limited to the red dot option, meaning that the option that illuminates the entire BDC reticle of the optic largely went unused. This caused a disparity for me when visually swapping between point shooting with the red dot, and having to conduct holdovers using the black bdc reticle beneath it. Reiterating once again that I'm a long time ACOG user, I like the prospect of having a full daylight bright BDC where the stadias are clearly illuminated throughout the entire optic.
Ultimately I would rather run an ACOG Ecos model if I need a 1x or 4x optic with a huge field of view, great light transmission, but precision on 1x due to a 3.25 or even 1MOA RMR piggybacked atop, and the constantly daylight bright stadia. Or, as I've currently chosen to put on my URGI, a G33/EXPS hws combination.
I actually went from an EXPS/G33 combo to an Elcan on my URG-I and I think it will stay that way, my eyes really don't like the eotech reticle in low light for some reason. I'd probably consider an ECOS setup if I could get more eye relief on the ACOG and the RDS mount was further forward on the ACOG. Similarly I'd probably go for the 4x only Specter with an ACRO P2 on top, that would be pretty sweet.
the elcan is fine, your training is just shit.
@@rustymacshackleford6276 Wait...did I message you on facebook last night or are you Boiselle?
If you’re having trouble getting the correct eye relief you 100% have it mounted in the wrong spot.
@@TheSaxualHealer Never had trouble with the eye relief, it's just got a more sensitive eye box than something with an objective lens as massive as it is. The vortex razor gen II eye box blows it out the water.
(This is Jeremy Thomas on his other account)
Hop’s out here throwing an Elcan on an Anderson lower. Perfect pairing. I love it.
I've never seen an Anderson Receiver fail.... not ever.
@@calholli So long as you don't have a manufacturing defect, nothing wrong with an Anderson. I don't get why they get crapped on so much. Yeah, they may not have a massively flared magwell or some weird ass milling in them. But, who really needs that 99% of the time?
My 3 Andersons cost less than a Spikes and they fit most of my uppers tighter on average than the spikes does. I don't notice a difference besides the roll mark 🤷 I'm not an operator though.
@@SlavicCelery Because you gotta spend a lot of money on an AR 15 in every aspect, or you don't deserve your second amendment rights and will die as soon as you touch your rifle in a real-use situation (According to r/AR15).
@@sartorialdriver6528 Oh right.
Your reviews are always great and to the point. No flashy bullshit or double talk. Just straight and to the point. Great as always. For the record I never understood the market for the Elcans. Also I could never justify the expense.
Ive used a bunch of different optics while in the military. I swear by the Elcan Specter. Hands down my favorite optic ive used.
In defiance of article 3, section 1(c) of the Geneva convention, I am once again requesting that you do a colab with GunThots.
I never signed no Geneva bullshit.
@@Hoplopfheil that reminds me of quite a few things I never signed.🤔
I second this motion
I just have this image in my mind of hop towering over Asian dad and telling him why his favorite optic sucks.
I have an idea. How about a fresh review of the KelTec Sub 2000? I haven’t seen a good cynical review of it yet, and it’s basically the cheapest PCC available that can take Glock mags. Seems like good potential for content on either channel. Just an idea.
I'd say your review is spot on, being in the ADF we have these optics on our weapons systems and I personally love them, just so crystal clear and the radical feedback is pretty good.
Agreed, best bit of kit the Army has purchased in a long time. From the donut site to this is night and day
@@marks1056 I got really good at using the donut of death, know all the leading positions and all my range holdovers.
@@StayFrostyOfficial yeh I have to admit, it did the job
@@marks1056 is the donut sight the stock steyr optic?
@@StayFrostyOfficial same, its taking time to adjust, barely under 150mm atm
I love mine. To be fair I didn't buy it, it's issued, but I run mine with a reflex sight on top and it's fantastic (once you get used to the holds). No sight does it all but I love it as a multipurpose optic. Easy to take from the woods, to the street to the inside of a house with nothing more than throwing a lever. That combo is also FANTASTIC under nods.
Now, is it worth 2000$ to me? Probably not, but if I ever have some throw around money and opportunity knocks, I'll jump at the chance.
It's a great optic, but only if you're running it for free, or you're rich.
I want to chime in as former Australian Military who used the Elcan specter as the primary optic on our standard issue rifle the EF88 (Australia's personally optimized version of the Steyr AUG). I think this optic actually perfectly suits the bullpup rifle because you can have the scope as far back as you like to mitigate the eye relief issues you were talking about while not blocking access to the bolt handle which is located towards the front of the rifle far in front of the scope, unlike with a carbine that would have it towards the back right underneath the optic as you've shown. I think where this optic really shines is with bullpup rifles for this reason specifically.
The Specter is quite an old optic, isn't it? I could see it being reasonable for its time (apart from the price) but now that cheap LPVOs are readily available and pretty good, and people want the ability to use their own mounts it seems like a bit of a dinosaur.
And now the German army has decided to adopt it as their standard issue optic…
@@borkwoof696 Source?
@@borkwoof696 MARSOC used it too. I think if it was that bad they will change it
It was first marketed in 2006, if I'm not mistaken. Its design predates the widespread adoption of LPVOs, a product of its time.
Yes, but the Spectre is still lighter than an NX8 in any QD mount. For most purposes on a standard combat rifle, you do not typically need magnification for much other than PID or shots to 300, for which the 4x is more than adequate. If it ain't broke...
Thanks so much for this detailed review. I lusted after an Elcan Spectre long ago, but I'm now glad I didn't shell out for one. It looks good on paper, but you point out some ergonomics which aren't obvious. You've gotten yourself a subscriber.
I love the Elcan. It has never left me down when on mission, and it’s a great blend of what you need. And much tougher than an eotech which broke often. I know it’s old now and heavy and expensive but it has never let me down and I would trust it more than most of my other personal optics. I’ll take it over any LPVO.
Currently the only dude on my team with an Elcan, everyone else is rocking an eotech or LVPO.
@@joemama69448 I just can’t get behind LPVO’s. Slow, narrow sight box, poor eye relief, etc. I just haven’t found one I actually like.
Excellent video! I can absolutely see the hype behind these. But for the vast majority of people out there it's just to much going on at once.
Hype vs reality, a lesson in 6 squintillion Dollar plate carriers
Yeah dude. Most of the high dollar plate carriers for the civilian market are not much different from cheaper, surplus stuff
@@bro26mohw As long as your carrier is the right size and can fit plates (sides included... dudes out here thinking they are ninjas with no side sapis.) you are good... just make sure you buy decent plates..... I also don't really like having a bunch of pouches or any of that on my front and prefer to run a belt. Like to keep my workspace clear. A lot easier to reload in the prone with a belt.
Any prism haters (a lovingly used term) out there tried the new primary arms microprism? I hear the eye relief/eye box is very forgiving, and the footprint and mounting options look really good.
I have used the original cyclops since it was launched and received my micro cyclops about week ago.. eye relief is in fact pretty nuts.
Brass Facts has a video up about it right now.
@@Hoplopfheil Sweet, I'll check it out.
@@shavo_. I am one of the unfortunate whose astigmatism truly does make red dots hard to use with precision. I'm also interested in the use cases of a red dot/magnifier combo. Is the diopter focus troublesome enough that using a magnifier is a bad idea?
@@christopherrobin8134 so i did some janky science for us as i have not put a magnifier in front of either of them. i used a 4x acog because i dont own any flip magnifiers so take it with a grain of salt. You can in fact dial in the diopter to get a clean sight picture through a magnifier. i did this with both versions of the cyclops. only problem i had was when using high illumination levels, i was getting a kind of light shadowing effect if i didnt have a real tight cheek weld and moved left or right while looking through the optic. this may be that i was using the acog for magnification, and not just a straight magnifier. one problem i can think of is when you dial in the diopter for a crisp sight picture through magnification, depending on how your eye sight is you may not have the same crisp sight picture when you flip the mag to the side. astigmatism is the reason i bought the cyclops and i love it, even when illuminated i can see it crystal. there are multiple different versions as well if you really want mag. 3x fixed, lpvo 1-6, acog etc, all that come with the acss and are prism/etched.
Also, found a video from Beyond Seclusion ( ua-cam.com/video/--wcj_AdIsE/v-deo.html ) where he is running the original cyclops with a 5x and seems to be doing just fine.
I can’t poop on the Elcan Specter DR at all. I’ve had one for about 3 years now and it’s about the only optic I’ve ever held onto for this long. Yes it’s heavy, the price is ridiculous, and it’s got iffy eye relief, but I’m terms of overall personal usage, it’s one of my favorite optics I’ve ever used.
I love the Elcan Specter DR. It's my favourite scope. You can probably guess I've only ever used it in video games.
It owns in Tarkov
High quality, deeply informed, in-depth content in an entertaining but no nonsense package. Never change, sir.
I love that someone on UA-cam is making negative reviews for a change
Anyone love the Elcan in Tarkov? Funnily enough the spectre is like one of the best sights for the price in the game versus IRL
Love it, although I’d rather use the Valday - but Valday did get a bit of a nerf in latest wipe though.
Yah,good scope for 1x and 4x and even has top iron sights.
It's quite funny to see so much tarkov players under such videos
Valday is unusable with automatic weapons. Elcan can be used both with semi and auto guns
My usual go to on 7.62 aks and M4
These optics were never intended for civilian life. I've run them in both the mil world and as a pmc they performed extremely well. Very versatile, one of the few optics that holds its zero well, after removal and reinstalling, the large objective lens transitions much better than acog from the low ready, you can turn off the red dot, where as acog your stuck with a blazing center reticle than reduces visibility on the bdc, if you need a ebs there's one built onto them, as apposed to acog that requires an entirely separate red dot unit that's dependent on battery's, and requires a separate eye relief drill to get used to, these you just need to move your eye ball, they transition super well from say an AR onto m249 and even have the bdc for that, and if all else fails there tough as nails, just un attach the sucker and you've got a decent tool to beat someone's ass with, I could go on and on. There designed for war, if your not going into combat, don't buy one.
>These optics were never intended for civilian life.
According to who? There's nothing that it does that isn't suited for civilians.
The crazy amount of eye relief/eye box the spectre has is a feature. I’ve had multiple people shoot mine and comment about how generous it is compared to their LPVO. I cannot imagine complaining it has poor eye relief.
I was thinking the same. Has better eye box and eye relief than any LPVOs I’ve ever used, beaten only by my gen3 vortex
So pretty much, everyone just has a preference wether they like it or not?
The eye box on the vortex 1-10 is literal garbage.
@@ipritch23i93 It makes sense, the outer objective on the Vortex 1x - 10x is 24mm. Everyone forgets physics exists while begging for these crazy erector ratios on LPVOs. The 1x - 10x is a fantastic piece of optical engineering, but physics will always win.
@@ipritch23i93 Anyone going more than 6x on a 24mm LPVO is just wasting money. As you point out, the eye box is basically unusable. Can't fault someone for only going with a 4x.
It's neat in concept, and perhaps the idea would be good if someone else tried to make a modern interpretation. I'll take an LPVO or fixed power prism instead.
There's a similar optic from Russia, the PSU scope from NPZ.
Never looked deep into it, but I suppose you can compare and contrast to Elcan.
I think the Elcan looks cool, and would be right at home on a video game themed gun. But I wouldn't use it for anything practical.
@@michaelblacktree well the Elcan is a combat proven optic amongst SOF so it does have a place. There are just better options available that do more for probably a bit more money
@@michaelblacktree Actually you're wrong, it's been used worldwide, especially British, U.S, Australia, Norwegian, Danish, Italy, and just recently Germany also started using them for their Bundeswehr.
Actually, I was correct in saying that I won't use an Elcan.
well i suppose that explains why the british army bought the fixed 4x power elcans with red dots on top
Kind of a silly premise. You see them for sale all the time, therefore no one keeps them? I see used eotech and aimpoints for sale all day long on the forums. Does that mean no one keeps them? The Elcan has pros and cons like all optics but it’s by no means a bad optic.
Damn, that bit about EOTechs and Aimpoints at the end was like you were making a documentary on me.
this doesn't just pertain to the Elcan, I've tried a few different set ups and optic variations. And I've found myself going right back to a plain jane red dot. On paper (imo) a dot and 3x magnifier would be the best of both worlds. But the problem I would always have is you have it hanging off your rifle which throws off the balance and gets in the way or leave it behind the dot and you're stuck with a permanent 3x so I just took it off. So I agree a simple red dot just works best for 99% of whatever you're doing.
Unity has a mount for the magnifier that goes up and down instead
The Australian army adopted the Spectre as the standard issued optic system with the upgraded EF-88 AUSTYER. It works well with the EF-88. The previous ACOG with RMR issued on the F-88 SA2 was good at medium and close distances and I liked the TA31-D-100288 single chevron reticule.
I agree the iron sights (the AS army calls it the Rain Sight) are poor. Moreover, they keep coming loose and the armourers are not allowed to use any kind of thread adhesive. Some kind of Trilux arrangement would be better or a miniature reflex would be optimal. The two changes I would make are a single post/chevron reticule (unlikely) and a more positive detent and lockout for the illumination switch.
Given the cost of an EF-88 AUSTEYR at something like $4500 Australian dollarydoos, I think it's a good compromise and has been well and truly proven in practice.
I absolutely agree with everything in this. The eye relief is ruthless on the Spector. But it's also kind of a matter of getting used to it. I've been running mine for about 2 years and it's gotten to the point where I no longer notice really.
Props to Hop for reinforcing my inclination to wait another decade for the military industrial complex to perfect this optic
I mean it's perfect for the military. Physically fit soldiers don't count ounces, errbody has peqs, you can roll down a mountain with it and you'll die before it breaks or loses zero, realistically impervious to water and dust, and high fov makes target acquisition fast.
Next generation night fighting will just add MRDs to the top for passive sighting... unless that nuts rifle FCU takes off. Then we're just one power armor suit away from Halo.
More like the flavor of the week kind of thing. All about the dopamine my friend.
My *fiend
In H3VR, I use the LPVO it gives at about 1.5-3x if need be, but that's a game and in VR. I have no experience IRL.
However I can imagine that if you're on a mission and need that long range, a 6x will do nicely.
It’s not everyone. I have the 1.5-6 and absolutely love it, and will keep it forever
I think the basic concept behind the Specter has a lot of merit but a gen 2 is long overdue…
Elcan said mine is Gen 4 but the only thing changed really is the battery cap and ARMS mount wasn't updated.
@@duomaxwell7862 that’s good to know but I‘m not talking a Glock gen kind of thing but more of a general makeover ;)
A true Gen 2 of the Elcan, modernly updated for 2020+ and beyond could/would be truly incredible. Why they don’t is a god damn mystery.
This optic is perfect because I have the optic killing SCAR that only won’t kill a ACOG or Elcan
Or a primary arms lol.
~Laughs in 12ga slug~
In the same boat w/ a SCAR.
Same, but I'm also getting the new SCAR without the reciprocating charging handle. Which should help a lot on the optic.
I do like the Specter DR and despite some of the issues mentioned it worked well and that was ultimately what was important to me. That said, I prefer the fixed 4x or the 1.5x to 6x DR model over the 1-4. They all still have some of the same shortcomings and issues as you mentioned regarding prism sights but again, they are rugged and work well.
I've tried out ACOG's and just never liked them other than the weight. I even still like the old Elcan M145 optics. But just comes from a lot of time using them. End of the day, I run different stuff now but still have a soft spot for the Specters.
What are you running now?
"Do you really use the magnification levels between 1 and 6 on an LPVO?"
2x specifically is one of my favorite LPVO settings for speed based shooting unless it's extreme close range. Hitting small targets relatively quickly at 50-100 m 2x rules the roost.
Close enough to 1x to still find targets extremely quickly, but with double the target size visible to you to aim on making it really easy to aim small miss small...quickly.
"Lazy Susan" not the most tacticool sounding marketing campaign.
He should stay out of marketing for sure. ....But his honesty is what we are here for.
@@NCrdwlf Soild review and I agree with the used gear market test. It’s just funny if in the world of high speed tactical marketing a scope was named the “Lazy Susan”.
Since I was seriously thinking about getting the Elcan Specter DR, until I purchased my Nightforce NX8 1-8x optic, think believe others have made the same choice. The NX8 is almost as light and almost as small, with double the magnification range.
Come for the knowledge, stay for the tarkov references
You seem to be missing the whole point. The Elcan Specter is made for Light Machine guns. Hence you are choked up on the gun that usually on a bipod. So yes, when people buy them for AR's they suck, and are likely to be quickly re- sold.
I have one on a SCAR 17s because I hate spending money responsibly. I love my Elcan, honestly. It's versatile.
Best gun channel on UA-cam. Sick af of channels like gng pushing every product from any company that contacts em.
@@Beardman56 lmfaoo so true, its kinda funny.
literally the best fucking optic ever created, perfect reticle, 1-4x switchable, able to mount red dot on top of it, century lasting housing... best optic for the toughest tasks
i love this sights reticle, its really nice.
This makes me want to buy another ACOG
this is the way
LED 3.5x / LED 4x
Just saying. Still love those slim hand guards
He has good taste.
In a modern setup the only reason to have an Elcan would be if it was offered in 3x/6x , 4x/8x or 5x/10x combination and add a nice 509T ACSS on top.
I have used iron sights, red dots, and Acogs extensively, and I have personally found that for a small rifle like AR15 or AK47/74, a 2x prism is the perfect sight for what these rifles are intended for. You can still shoot both eyes open like a red dot, but can reach out at distance like an Acog. A good 2x prism will have a more forgivable eye relief than anyone needs. If you are having eye relief issues, you either set it up wrong on the rifle or are holding it super weird.
This optic is currently what the Australian defence force use for their rifles and light machine guns
Yeah that's what we use, I honestly quite like the sight but it's the only one I've used before so I have no comparison
It does tick all the boxes for a good battle rifle optic and it is.
But its price and weight is ridiculous.
ACOG didn't need to be replaced within the ADF.
No surprise the ADF chooses a stupidly expensive option. Pretty standard 😂
@@chunderbandit8720 true,
They love burning money.
I have no interest nor have I ever had any interest in this optic, but I love the fact that you pointed out the flaws especially at the price that they are asking. While everyone else is shilling for companies you are one of few content creators that gives it to us straight, and that is why we and our wallets/pocket-books love you. Next time I want to buy anything firearms related I need to check in with you first.
been in the military for 5 years, shot expert on m4 with irons the whole time before using an elcan for the first time and HOLY fuck it makes it so much easier. love this optic
The specter costs more than my Daniel Defense DDM4V7. And the only reason I got that rifle was because of that stimmy check from the gov’t.
Typically when using night vision you're using it in conjunction with some sort of IR aiming device like a PEQ or DBAL mounted to your rifle. We had Trijicons when I was in the Marine Corps and trying to look through one of those with NVGs on is just an awkward blurry nightmare so you train to shoot using your IR laser at night. When it's properly zeroed the laser is very effective for night shooting at extended ranges. Optics like this aren't intended to be looked through using NVGs, and if you can afford these things you can afford a good IR aiming device.
To be fair, that's just an aspect on how "outdated" the optic is as it doesn't conform to modern expectations. Forgiving the optic because you have an IR aiming device can only be done under the assumption that you own the night.
I love my EXPS-3. i'll never sell it.
I bought the Specter not knowing what I was getting into. Just couldn't make it work on any of my rifles, until. It works fantastic on the VHS-2. The positioning on the stock and cheekpad is so consistent the Specter actually works. There is no conflict with the charging handle or rifle controls.
i love the idea of an aimpoint acro on a carbine. you seem like the perfect guy to debunk that concept, especially once an nvg device enters the picture. its small, its light, it seems rugged enough.
I'm planning on mounting one to my Elcan as soon as the P2 and a saddle mount for it are released, specifically for NV usage.
I agonized for months over this optic. It looks so fuckin cool, that instant 1x-4x lever is dope af, and it looks so fuckin cool. Not to mention, it looks so fuckin cool. And don't forget about its cool looks!
After tons of reading posts from owners, though, I never bought one. But man, it looks cool!
it’s an awesome optic man don’t let’s this dissuade you. it’s absolutely as fast as a red dot, has an excellent ranging and compensated reticle, eotech level battery life, rugged as hell, very very high level glass.
The build quality is amazing and so is the glass!
Military’s to this day continue using it elcan has plenty of casualties tallied up
I run an Aimpoint PRO. I like it. I don’t see the need to buy anything else and I haven’t found anything better for the price. It’s accurate, durable, the battery last a long time, didn’t cost much, balances well on my rifle, and it came with a mount.
Love the pro and the qrp mount but they are both large and heavy
Holosun red dots are my go-to. Cheaper than aimpoint but just as small and plenty tough
I almost bought a T2, got the PRO instead and used the money to get a scalarworks mount. I'm pretty damn happy with it
Holosun blows it out of the water.
@@domenik8339 agreed in everything EXCEPT durability and performance under night vision. And not being made in China, if that matters to you. With some of the better Holosuns costing $250-$350 with their passable-but-not-great included mounts that many of us want to upgrade with a Scalarworks or Unity Tactical mount for $150-$200 respectively, the value proposition comes out closer to the same between the Aimpoint Pro and the Holosun 503 or even 403. So with the total package for Holosun with a good mount coming to about $350 minimum I personally think saving up the extra $100 for the 450-dollar Aimpoint is worth it for some users whose personal preference is an optic tested and proven out by the military market in addition to law enforcement and civilian users as opposed to just the former.
This was why IR lasers are so important. We would use the optic in daylight missions then night falls and your weapon is a center line laser only weapon. Really not a big deal for 100 to 300 fighting. It becomes a big deal in CQB though.
This is the one style of optic that I really wish could get a real update to the design. New mount design, adjustable diopter, maybe bump up the magnification to be a 1x/6x since the 1.5x/6x is a bit goofy, cause I really love a lot about the design and what it can do. If they could do that, retain it's durability, and not make it weight over 2lbs, it'd be well worth it these days. I'd take one over an LPVO easily.
However, I'd still take a 1.5x/6x for my AUG.
This so many times 👌
i have a specter i copped for $1400, should be noted that it's an earlier one. i have yet to have problems with it other than a minimal zero shift between 1-4x. so it's sighted in on 4x since if i'm using the 1x, odds are i'm shooting a target around 50yds anyways. cool factor is still an A+. would recommend for price i paid but probably not higher than that
also should be noted that i don't have NV
All good points, but what about the fact that only the Elcan has a little unnecessary cutout to clear the Matech rear iron? What about the two metal loops literally there to zip-tie the crappy ARMS handles tight? And the requirement that you upgrade to ARMS Gen 2 levers or cut up a soda can to get the optic tight enough to your rail? Eh? Eh?
In all seriousness, I've got a 1-4x with the old SOCOM reticle (ACOG reticle). It's heavy as hell but the glass is clean and I've never had issues with the eye relief. I rebarreled my rifle to 11.5" so I hate to say it, but your video is accurate - I no longer have a rifle that I want to put the 1-4x SpecterDR on and might sell it. I would, however, be picking up a 1.5-6x SpecterDR as a replacement for a 7.62 rifle, so I don't know if your video is targeting both the 4x and 6x models or just the lower power one, which is pretty well obsolete.
Re: NV and the SpecterDR - a short-range clip-on is really where the optic shines if you're wanting to use actual optics with NV. If I'm using a PVS-14, I'm using a CQBL or similar IR laser.
These go on the flea for hella roubles. I like slapping these on srs then running reserve
i dont think this should come as suprised to anyone. Jack of all trades is the master of none, after all.
Used the 1,5x-6x elcan on my 240 and 1x-4x on a SAW, works perfectly for defensive winter warfare and lasts for generations even when it's not taken good care of. I can see it not being the best fit for a rifle, i've not tested it myself but it seems like it's a 50/50 in the norwegian army between prefering the 1x-4x elcan vs aimpoint with a 3x magnifier. I swear for the aimpoint with a 3x on my HK416.
My issue is that they're not worth as a 1x2 slot item, you can prob find something that sells better to therapist.
Grey Zone actually made accurate how bad this optic is, I would rather use a mosin PU scope then this :D
Can’t believe you don’t have more subs. Very well done on this optic. Looking for one for a x95 and was told about this one. Will be looking for a different one. Subscribed and wanted to say thanks for all the info
I love my spectreos which4x only, got it on a great sale and it's great for shooting with both eyes open.
Very in-depth review, I’ve had several over the years (two sold with my scars and one SU269 I’ll never give up) . They are excellent optics once you realize what it is an not what it isn’t. also if you find a SU 230 or SU 269 you’ll find those reticles are a lot better than the civilian version’s 2x4 sized cross hairs.
I have no idea what it's like in real life but it's been my favorite scope in any shooter that has it, especially Tarkov and Arma 3
Came to your channel to ask a quick question about the MP5 yesterday and here I am today and Ive just RAN through your videos.
Im not the most educated when it comes to firearms beyond the casual things everyone knows (clip vs magazine and shit like that)
Thanks for making it easy to understand!
Badass in tarkov
Your comment on the T2 forever replacing whatever hype scope one may have bought made me laugh out loud. Literally what happened to me. Not that I hate my prism scope, but my T2 doesnt leave my gun. Ever.
I think it's a decent optic for military use for when you need to arm an entire army with a decent optic for mid-range warfare. but when you're a civvie or SOF with the ability to use whatever the hell you want then any other alternatives like LVPO's or even just a straight holographic magnifier combo will do you better
Unless the civilian markup is enormous, these aren't even that.
Used in service assault rifles bmas an adult since 1987 and this sight is awesome. It is the in service Australian Army sight and I wouldn't bother with anything else as a rifleman.