I never get the problem with craterhoof. There’s a million overrun effects. It’s the main way green wins. Overwhelming Stampede can do more or less the same in a go big strategy. With Craterhoof they need to have like 8 creatures and 8 mana, you can save yourself with anything from fog to Teferi’s protection and having a big enough board yourself to absorb your share of the damage. If it’s “boring” then so is every other win con from the life drain of black to the combos of blue.
same. It is just a "win more" card most of the time and games have to end. I definitely find cards like "Rise of the Dark Realms" or "Insurrection" much more tilting, as they allow you to completely win out of nowhere and most of the times punish your opponents for doing good.
Rise of the Dark Realms is a cmc nine sorcery which needs one extra turncycle to win the game. That´s not a win out of nowhere and there are better options like Twilight´s Call.@@Shikigami6
It's because it's a large hasty creature with a massively scaling effect. Most Overrun cards can be weathered with a large board, but Craterhoof is much harder to withstand. But the biggest problem is the effect being on a creature instead of a sorcery. That means it can be easily tutored in mono-green, it can be blinked, it can be cast with mana that can only be used for creatures (not uncommon in mono-green), more counters are aimed at noncreatures (as covered in the video), and being a permanent makes it much easier to "cheat" than a sorcery would be.
So my personal opinion , the saltiest cards are either win conditions that aren’t interactive ex: thoracle, approach of the second sun , and especially mazes end , as that makes land destruction basically necessary to stop , and land destruction is pretty salty too , but more than that , people don’t like to watch solitaire , which is probably why omniscience can be pretty salty , but also cards like winter orb that say you do nothing for the rest of the game and do your opponents are the only ones playing . Stax is awful
Here’s my take on land destruction: If it wins you the game, mass land destruction is fine. If you are doing it just because, it’s salty. However, targeted and limited land destruction are essential. If I’m becoming a bigger threat, destroy my Urborg or Coffers. If I went greedy with my mana base, punish me with From the Ashes or Ruination. I won’t get salty if it helps knock me down a peg or wins the game. I *will* get salty if you kick me when I’m down.
God the more I listen to these stats the more I’m dissatisfied and disappointed with commander players, MLD, Interaction, and even free spells are fine quit your Btchn and get good
Void Winnower is so fascinating on a meta level. Imagine being at war and your buddy Steve is fine one minute then the next for no reason you can tell is completely incapacitated. Eldrazi are so cool.
Using Sliver Hivelord as your commander in the sliver precon and getting Crystalline Sliver on the board generates a fair amount of salt in casual play... In my experience at least haha
Even if your commander is The First Sliver, having Sliver Hivelord and Crystalline Sliver in your deck, where one can cascade into the other, is pretty salty in casual play.. at least in my experience.
@@draco4569 Yeah, but when that deck comes out it's to play against stronger precons like Eldrazi. I'd much prefer to go up against The First Sliver. Then if they get either of those two you can either board wipe or use targeted removal. Yeah, when they both drop it's pretty much game over. But at least you don't start with one. Might just need to keep a Shadowspear around whenever that deck comes out in my play group lol. It's a precon so I don't want to complain to them about it. It's just a rough combo. We play it out knowing they've won. It's fun to see Slivers go off.
Maybe I'm just an evil player, (I mean, I am a fan of playing Dimir), but all I'm hearing here are good strategies that I'm putting in the back of my mind for future use
An 8-10 mana win more card is not a salty card. Half of these are memes. The only expensive cards I could even consider salty are stuff like Void Winnower because it's not super hard to cheat out a big colorless body, but honestly meh. A big game ender is a big game ender, it's not salty unless it comes out of nowhere early in the game.
I only have one copy of Smothering Tithe and I don’t plan on getting more. It’s such a read the table card and feels weird that my only deck that runs it is Zedruu group-hug/wedding ring. Tithe is pretty much needed there because I’m giving my lands away unless I have an universal effect.
What do you mean by "Read the Table" card? I'm unfamiliar with that phrase. I have a copy of Smothering Tithe that I want to put in one of my commander decks, but if its a taboo to do in casual games, I may not want to.
@@adamlinker9613 There are some cards that are on the cusp of casual and too strong where it’s not taboo but can get you hated out of the game. You need to read the table with those cards to determine if you want to take the risk of playing them that game. If you see people playing other cards like Rhystic Study, Mystic Remora, and other generally incredibly strong cards it’s pretty safe to play Smothering Tithe.
Craterhoof is extra salty for me, because we had an EDH tournament night at a local gameshop where most everyone played casually. except this one guy,who had a literal briefcase of decks that were all hyper sweaty decks. the one he used most was a deck that cheated out craterhoof consistantly by about turn 4. After several weeks we didnt see him, but a lot of people stopped showing up likely because of him. which is why the shop stopped doing edh as a whole.
@@GlassEater420 thats really the best way to play edh. people bringing their janky decks of their own design or precons, have fun playing together and not outright competing. Its a format to make friends, not just opponents (IMO) Like one of my favorite decks I've designed recently is a deck designed to have as many upkeeps as I can to then fire off multiple upkeep triggers every turn. Such as Azor's elocutors getting all five filibuster counters on one turn to win the game. or that one card that grants you an additional curse enchantment every upkeep, so just swarm the board with curses in one go. Or the classic token creature swarms
I think if the one ring was exactly the same, but only drew you one card per tap, it'd be a reasonable card. But drawing cards for each counter sends it over the top
the fact that it slots into anything and automatically makes whatever its in better is silly. i have one in my raffine deck and my brother has one in his jetmir deck. it doesnt synergize with reanimator or tokens but it automatically makes them better decks
The biggest thing that puts it over the top is that if you bounce or sac it, then replay it, you don’t have the counters. Just give the PLAYER burden counters and The One Ring is much more fair.
@jolteon345 I heavily disagree. The only situation I wouldn't want to be drawing 5 cards for 5 life is if I had less than 6 life. Bouncing the ring and resetting the counters would be silly because your tossing all that card advantage.
@@eewweeppkk You’re losing the card advantage but also maintaining your health. It’s why resetting the ring, when combined with the protection, is so powerful. If bouncing the ring kept the risk of “If I play this, I can still die on my next turn” it would be much less broken because you’d need to maintain when you play it. The only time it would actively be broken is when a deck is already abusing it via extra untaps or infinite mana.
As an owner of the saltiest card in EDH, Thassa's Oracle, I can say with immense pride that I have never played this card. I still have a soul, don't fret fellow gamers. I do use Cyclonic rift though... Sorry lol. And Fierce Guardianship... and Smothering tithe... and Behemoth... and pact of negation... and omniscience.... and force of negation.... y'know what, maybe I deserve to burn at the stake.... but at least I still have my soul for not using Thassa.
Honestly, this is just making methink that the commander rupes commity might need to start being stricter with bans. This is supposed to be a player controlled format, not a wotc controlled one. Yet wotc constantly push the powerlevel to often ridiculous levels. If more of the truly problematic cards got banned before they even released, wotc might realize something is up.
This list is far from the truth. Blood moon, stasis, Tergrid, Elesh norn, Armageddon, back to basics, vorinclex voice of hunger, static orb. The videos list is actually bullshit
I love cheating my eldrazi lol now I’m putting roaming throne in it to call eldrazi so I can cascade 4 times. I also have other cards that copy the ability so yea fun
Of all time? I was optimistic when winter orb was the first card mentioned. But almost every other card mentioned isn't even 5 years old! Where is: Standstill, Static orb, Pernicious deed, Aluren, Stasis, Smokestack, Land tax, Chalice of the void, Tarmogoyf, Disciple of the vault, Cat/Oven, Force of will, Frantic search, Channel, and Tinker?... Just to name a few off the top of my head.
Thassa's Oracle has to be the least fun way to lose a game. It does not feel like magic, and of all the dumb loop hole ways to win it feels the dumbest and most loop holed. Why on earth did they put that on the card.
me a arena player who is so used to playing against all of these cars to the point in which I don't care anymore I enjoy many of these cards and everyone uses them online.
There are so many spells that exist that kill every card type. If you dont throw a handfull of those in your deck then i dont really feel that bad for you
You know what's really satisfying? Playing clone cards/copy spells that copy these salty cards and somehow utilize their abilities better than the player who had those cards in their deck! I slaughtered an entire table by milling them out with Altar of the Brood after my Auton Soldier came in as a copy of one of my opponents' Ancient Gold Dragon. All my copies of Ancient Gold Dragon hit, netting me 45 1/1 Faerie Dragons. It was awesome!
I'm surprised Back to Basics wasn't on this list. A guy shows up to your table with a 5 color sliver commander deck, running all these dual and triome lands, and you just drop a Back to Basics on turn 2, 3 or 4 and he is pretty much done.
Ok for me its all the old and new eldrazi and dragons, and quick quick ramp/ cheatout potental because they all win the same way by making sure you have nothing and they have all the creatures while dealing as much face damage as possible oh yes play ancient copper dragon for three mana and swing for 15 treasures while the ur dragon can deal 20 commander damage
Personally, i think that Craterhoof Behemoth is strong, not salty. For swarm commanders deck, Vrestin, Lathrill, and so on, there is no card like Behemoth for close the game. Other cards like End-Raze or Overwealming Sampede, usually don't boost enought the board to kill 3 players, so Behemoth is required
I understand why Paradox Engine is banned in Commander. Way too much devastating when you play against artefacts decks and later throwing a blast zone to wipe out all your stuff. I'd rather loose from The Millennium Calendar card combo instead.
Expropriate can be completely shut down though for 1 colorless mana with Gerard's Hourglass Pendant. Even at instant speed. You can flash it in response to the spell being cast, then everyone can just pick extra turn. The spell is effectively negated.
famous magic story....in the early days of magic, it was down to th final 2 players....1 guy was outmatched. he draws chaos orb.....proceeds to rip it into about 50 pieces, and manages to take out all his oppenets stuff on the table. The judges came over, and it was determined the guy who played the chaos orb lost. Question....WHY did he lose?
I do not understand commander players. As I understand, it's a format specifically trying to be hyper powerful and utilize the largest card pool yet it's players are the saltiest about powerful interaction cards go back to playing standard. "It's no fun when someone controls your actions" oh my gosh it's just a game it's silly and sometimes you're gonna lose good Lord.
The new Dino discover deck is just dumb. Turn 3 then wait 5 minutes for the triggers to finish, then you die. One ring is super annoying Also kind of anything that’s over played. I could count how many times I’ve played again mono red swiftspear in the last 3 months. People just want to play the best deck, and think it makes them a good player.. fml.. create you own decks..
I’d like to offer a different perspective on Craterhoof Behemoth: If Craterhoof Behemoth didn’t exist, all us Green Beatdown players would simply switch to one of the Super Dinos as a finisher. Yanno, the ones who cheat out *still more* big tramplers *we also have to search for* ? I’d much rather get my being run over by a wave of Trample over with ASAP, but that’s just me. Edit: The One Ring really, really needed some kind of once a turn limitation. It’s too easy to untap it multiple times per turn. (Hell, you can automate the untap-process with an Unwinding Clock.) Card draw is one of those things that can flat break the game.
the one ring is just completely unfair. player is immune for a turn and draws a card for free. they do pay 1 life but not until their next turn. imagine the player just time volts turn 2, turn 3 twiddle the time vault, one ring draws 1, skips a turn but cant be damaged. untaps vault and one ring. d
Dockside feels like Wizards messed up made this card put it in a commander deck and now refuse to acknowledge they did that, it was right around the same time as that Merfolk Pirate who broke commander can’t remember his name 😂
I am surprised Arcane Bombardment didn't make this list. cus it pairs really well with instants and sorceries that exile after casting. if you can get cards like Expropriate or Alrund's Epiphany into the graveyard without casting them, Arcane Bombardment exiles an instant or sorcery at random, then copies all those cards exiled with it, then you may cast those copies for free. meaning if you get one of those extra turn cards, and have a steady flow of instants and sorceries you can cast, it's GG right there.
I feel like all these salty cards bring up a common problem I have when playing edh. Everyone expects you play around their decks and not interfere with them in anyway that is deemed arbitrarily unfair, and I think that leads to dull games. Each of these cards spices up the game a little and sure if I saw them every game, I'd hate it, but I don't.
This format really should be more regulated. The Commander Advisory Group could actually try doing something to counter Wotc''s relentless printing of overpowered garbage. You know like banning stuff.
I'm surprised that cards like ghostly prison and propaganda didn't make the list, which essentially makes your opponents pay 2 mana for each attacking creature targeted at you.
FUUUUUUUUUUCK THORACLE. Card is single handedly ruining cEDH in the sense it's killing diversity (every "different" deck is still plan B'ing this thing to snipe games for minimal deck requirements) and the other is carrying players hard. This card makes winning trivial and frustratingly will see every decision in a game become meaningless since this requires no set up to pull off. All those terrible misplays? You're good, cuz for 2 cards and 3-4 mana you can just win the whole thing out of nowhere, your only decision making is determining if you gotta enough counters to go for it. The amazing sense of outplay has disappeared when you sit down to 3 players all trying to tutor/counter war into these 2 cards. Even when it's not the winning card you're forced to play around the potential of it starting turn 1 because it has no telegraphing. This is the RC's greatest sin when it comes to the ban list. It's just as bad as Flash and even they finally said no to that...and in some ways it's even better because it requires less deck space AND is more consistent.
Conpletely agree, Jim is imo a colossal failure as RC member. I got so tired of thoracle I retired from 'competitive' play. I'd immediately ban it given the chance in the interests of deck building diversity.
Could you make a video on the new Lara Croft card? I really want to build it in paper but am struggling to keep it in a reasonable budget it is killing me
personally love Teferi time raveler. every time the hyper control player complains I just look at him and go "aww is it not fun when you can't play your cards wonder what that is like!"
Drannith Magistrate should be banned because its basically a turn 2 "I get to play commander, no one else does" effect until someone draws removal. If something like Swiftfoot boots are attached to it, then it is truly "Commander for 1" gameplay which, IMO, defines 'breaking the format'. A thought on Dockside- I believe this card first appeared in the Mystic Intellect precon commanded by Sevinne the Chronoclasm. This is where I got my copy anyhow. That deck is notoriously slow because you have to load up your graveyard then start using jumpstart/flashback effects to get it going. I would hazard to guess they designed this card to speed it up without considering the notion that people would move it to other decks. Or they just didnt care which would explain a lot of the design decisions lately.
As long as Drannith lives his life in cEDH (where white Stax decks really need him) and doesn´t appear in many "It´s just a 7" pupstomper decks I don´t care about it. Same is true for Oppo Agent, Thoracle, Dockside or Jeweled Lotus.
I don't know, I kind of feel like if one creature on the board that stops your commander from being played shuts your entire deck down, You're playing some very low power, poorly built decks.
Drannith should be retconned. "Your Opponents can't cast spells from anywhere other than their hands OR Command Zone" otherwise, strictly ban it from Commander
There are multiple locals at our new card shop with that Thassa combo, and I hate it. I'm here just trying to play casual Rin & Seri tribal jank, and I get matched to these decks. One guy even tried to counter thassa, but the counterspell was countered by 1 mana open swan song by one of the thassa players thassa won. :/
So stop playing against those people? Have a rule zero conversation. Quit playing a casual 20-turn clock deck against effectively cEDH strats. At some point it's you that keeps running head first in to that wall.
Difficult to avoid when they're paid commander pods. We have EDH pods and cEDH pods. I play the regular ones, and Thassas are allowed there. cEDH at the shop is basically EDH, but allowing proxies too, which I don't do. I prefer more casual too bc I wish to see more variety and actually see board presence as well rather than see players throwing cards like ninja stars and suddenly stating one of them went infinite before the average turn that cultivate might be castable in another deck. Metas in commander are a bit too clear, as we have thousands of card options for commanders, yet like 2-3 players would stick to Etali, which also tends to infinite the moment he's played with certain cards by milling out all other players with food chain sacking itself + hits. Then there's someone playing a 5 colored ebchantment as their commander bc the flip side is a creature, and when it resolves once or twice, or his Defense of the Heart resolves once, he just wins the game outright bc his deck consists of only removal, counter, protection, and a small number OP creatures, which the enchantment reveals top of deck until hitting one of these creatures. A good few tryhards here, and have already caused a number of players not to come back. A few in the shop at this point have been in discussion of some sort of house rules possibly to deal with this issue, finding ways to rule out decks that tutor quick wins that can consistently present themselves too easily and too often. @pdxholmes
Imagine playing a Rakdos deck against someone that plays Overwhelming Splendour. It’s basically a slow drawn out win for your opponents. People don’t like cards that shut you down and kill you slowly without having good counter play. Having said that, I personally despise extra turn effects.
quite a few cards on this list don't deserve to be there at all in my opinion. omniscience, i mean it's 10 mana and it does things, but it doesn't draw cards and refill hands or draw cards on it's own, and it's 10 mana overwhelming splendor is 8 mana, barely effects 1 player at the table, i could see how 1 player might get salty, but to make this tier list??? Darksteel monolith again 8 mana and lets you cheat 11 and 13 mana creatures into play like it's 8 mana to cheat an 11 mana critter into play, by 8 mana you really should be doing this kind of thing anyway, and craterhoof, the only bit of salt from this card is truly just how much it see's play, and by that factor, lands should be the saltiest cards, i see an island every game. i don't understand salt factor ratings i guess.
Trust me, Overwhelming Splendor doesn't "barely" affect a player. If you have no instants or sorceries in hand that can deal with it you effectively can't play the game
you gotta remember. if someone’s putting omniscience in their deck, they’re probably not hard casting it. there’s so many ways to cheat out big threats nowadays, the mana cost shouldn’t discount the threat it is
if they cast a 10 mana spell, and it resolves, i'd expect them to win the game and do it fairly swiftly. that is the point of 10 mana spells. FFS. @@stumpjumper6679
that was a great list but I think you are missing one and this one is just hated by everybody: HUMILITY. I have played that card many times and nobody likes, no even the owner hahaha
He specified that he's trying to look at more "modern" cards (from the last decade or so), because otherwise the list would be filled with things like Humility and Winter Orb, the things that are just going to be on the saltiest list for as long as Commander is a thing.
I know this is not in the top end of salt cards, but its a card that i really really dont like ! And Its Sol ring ! So if we are talking tournaments, i can get along with it, its in the format, if it fits ur deck, which it most likely does, you should play it, and the first player that draws it within the first 3-4 turns has a much much higher % chance of winning the game. Fine that's a tournement, its about winning and using the cards in the format to the best possible outcome, i have no problem with that. BUT, if u are just playing with friends for fun, i think this card is rather toxic! As said its to play for fun with friends, and to play a propper game of magic, giving the first player to draw this card early, a permanent 2 mana advantage for a one time 1 mana cost is pretty stupid. As said in the first part, whoever gets this card out fist in the first 3-4 turns of the game all at sudden has a much much better chance of winning the game, and i really dont like that sort of power on a single card when playing for fun. Now you might think, this is just a salty player, who has this friend that plays Sol ring in his/her decks, and keeps losing to it cause he cant figure out how to beat it, but no! I am the player that has a HUGE collection and have about 20-30 decks at any time, and at some point i bought 25 Sol rings, so i could put one in every deck that could make good use of it, and then realised after playing with the decks for a while that this one single card sort of changed the whole gameplay of the decks more often then not, and then took all Sol rings out of every deck again, to help making the games more about playing magic then about who draws this card first, or in other words made the games a lot more fun again. Now as said to begin with its not a real salt card, and there are many many cards that i consider to be much better and more powerful, but Sol ring just gives a player this lottery effect, which as said is fine in tournaments, but other then that i really dont think such cards bring anything positive to the game.
I never get the problem with craterhoof. There’s a million overrun effects. It’s the main way green wins. Overwhelming Stampede can do more or less the same in a go big strategy. With Craterhoof they need to have like 8 creatures and 8 mana, you can save yourself with anything from fog to Teferi’s protection and having a big enough board yourself to absorb your share of the damage. If it’s “boring” then so is every other win con from the life drain of black to the combos of blue.
same. It is just a "win more" card most of the time and games have to end. I definitely find cards like "Rise of the Dark Realms" or "Insurrection" much more tilting, as they allow you to completely win out of nowhere and most of the times punish your opponents for doing good.
Rise of the Dark Realms is a cmc nine sorcery which needs one extra turncycle to win the game. That´s not a win out of nowhere and there are better options like Twilight´s Call.@@Shikigami6
It's because it's a large hasty creature with a massively scaling effect. Most Overrun cards can be weathered with a large board, but Craterhoof is much harder to withstand. But the biggest problem is the effect being on a creature instead of a sorcery. That means it can be easily tutored in mono-green, it can be blinked, it can be cast with mana that can only be used for creatures (not uncommon in mono-green), more counters are aimed at noncreatures (as covered in the video), and being a permanent makes it much easier to "cheat" than a sorcery would be.
Easiest card type to tutor in green by far so you see crsterhoof 10x more than any other overrun
Played The One Ring with a Seedborn Muse, won the game next turn when I was going to lose the next turn and the card I needed was 5 cards down.
Thank you for my new deck list 😁
First print of winter orb was actually in 1993, Alpha. I have a play set I got back in college.
I question his magic creds not know that. Pathetic.
@@RadjamminI question the harshness of your comment. Pathetic.
One of my saltiest games was playing against a token deck with 'Aura shards' on the board.
As someone with not one, but too artifacts decks, it’s the very bane of my existence…
Add a mycosynth lattice if you are feeling extra salty
As someone with 2 token decks with 'Aura shards' in it, I'm sorry
So my personal opinion , the saltiest cards are either win conditions that aren’t interactive ex: thoracle, approach of the second sun , and especially mazes end , as that makes land destruction basically necessary to stop , and land destruction is pretty salty too , but more than that , people don’t like to watch solitaire , which is probably why omniscience can be pretty salty , but also cards like winter orb that say you do nothing for the rest of the game and do your opponents are the only ones playing . Stax is awful
This is why yugioh players usually don’t like playing yugioh -signed, a yugioh player
Here’s my take on land destruction:
If it wins you the game, mass land destruction is fine. If you are doing it just because, it’s salty.
However, targeted and limited land destruction are essential. If I’m becoming a bigger threat, destroy my Urborg or Coffers. If I went greedy with my mana base, punish me with From the Ashes or Ruination.
I won’t get salty if it helps knock me down a peg or wins the game. I *will* get salty if you kick me when I’m down.
I need to make a deck with all of these cards and name it salt mine.
Great video couldn’t agree more with your picks! My only gripe is that your videos aren’t longer, love your perspective.
That is because he speaks to fast 😅
God the more I listen to these stats the more I’m dissatisfied and disappointed with commander players, MLD, Interaction, and even free spells are fine quit your Btchn and get good
no mystic remora? no rhystic study? no sheoldred?
Sheoldred doesn’t make much sense but the others are very old cards. He covered that the cards need to come out approximately 10 years ago.
Thassa's oracle is so lame and so are the people that run it.
Void Winnower is so fascinating on a meta level. Imagine being at war and your buddy Steve is fine one minute then the next for no reason you can tell is completely incapacitated. Eldrazi are so cool.
Using Sliver Hivelord as your commander in the sliver precon and getting Crystalline Sliver on the board generates a fair amount of salt in casual play... In my experience at least haha
Even if your commander is The First Sliver, having Sliver Hivelord and Crystalline Sliver in your deck, where one can cascade into the other, is pretty salty in casual play.. at least in my experience.
@@draco4569 Yeah, but when that deck comes out it's to play against stronger precons like Eldrazi. I'd much prefer to go up against The First Sliver. Then if they get either of those two you can either board wipe or use targeted removal. Yeah, when they both drop it's pretty much game over. But at least you don't start with one. Might just need to keep a Shadowspear around whenever that deck comes out in my play group lol. It's a precon so I don't want to complain to them about it. It's just a rough combo. We play it out knowing they've won. It's fun to see Slivers go off.
Might need to add the one ring to my Saruman spells and goblin deck. I already have jeweled lotus and gilded lotus in there.
Maybe I'm just an evil player, (I mean, I am a fan of playing Dimir), but all I'm hearing here are good strategies that I'm putting in the back of my mind for future use
How come Sheoldred, Karn and Fury are not in this list??
Is it wrong to want to create a deck with all of these cards included?
An 8-10 mana win more card is not a salty card. Half of these are memes. The only expensive cards I could even consider salty are stuff like Void Winnower because it's not super hard to cheat out a big colorless body, but honestly meh. A big game ender is a big game ender, it's not salty unless it comes out of nowhere early in the game.
I only have one copy of Smothering Tithe and I don’t plan on getting more. It’s such a read the table card and feels weird that my only deck that runs it is Zedruu group-hug/wedding ring. Tithe is pretty much needed there because I’m giving my lands away unless I have an universal effect.
What do you mean by "Read the Table" card? I'm unfamiliar with that phrase. I have a copy of Smothering Tithe that I want to put in one of my commander decks, but if its a taboo to do in casual games, I may not want to.
@@adamlinker9613 There are some cards that are on the cusp of casual and too strong where it’s not taboo but can get you hated out of the game. You need to read the table with those cards to determine if you want to take the risk of playing them that game. If you see people playing other cards like Rhystic Study, Mystic Remora, and other generally incredibly strong cards it’s pretty safe to play Smothering Tithe.
Craterhoof is extra salty for me, because we had an EDH tournament night at a local gameshop where most everyone played casually. except this one guy,who had a literal briefcase of decks that were all hyper sweaty decks. the one he used most was a deck that cheated out craterhoof consistantly by about turn 4. After several weeks we didnt see him, but a lot of people stopped showing up likely because of him. which is why the shop stopped doing edh as a whole.
That's fucked. I have one $500 deck, and the rest are pre-cons for casual with friends and at LGS
@@GlassEater420 thats really the best way to play edh. people bringing their janky decks of their own design or precons, have fun playing together and not outright competing. Its a format to make friends, not just opponents (IMO) Like one of my favorite decks I've designed recently is a deck designed to have as many upkeeps as I can to then fire off multiple upkeep triggers every turn. Such as Azor's elocutors getting all five filibuster counters on one turn to win the game. or that one card that grants you an additional curse enchantment every upkeep, so just swarm the board with curses in one go. Or the classic token creature swarms
I think if the one ring was exactly the same, but only drew you one card per tap, it'd be a reasonable card. But drawing cards for each counter sends it over the top
Agreed its broken, my wife and I pulled one in each box we bought so they are going in our decks lol
the fact that it slots into anything and automatically makes whatever its in better is silly. i have one in my raffine deck and my brother has one in his jetmir deck. it doesnt synergize with reanimator or tokens but it automatically makes them better decks
The biggest thing that puts it over the top is that if you bounce or sac it, then replay it, you don’t have the counters. Just give the PLAYER burden counters and The One Ring is much more fair.
@jolteon345 I heavily disagree. The only situation I wouldn't want to be drawing 5 cards for 5 life is if I had less than 6 life. Bouncing the ring and resetting the counters would be silly because your tossing all that card advantage.
@@eewweeppkk You’re losing the card advantage but also maintaining your health. It’s why resetting the ring, when combined with the protection, is so powerful. If bouncing the ring kept the risk of “If I play this, I can still die on my next turn” it would be much less broken because you’d need to maintain when you play it. The only time it would actively be broken is when a deck is already abusing it via extra untaps or infinite mana.
Another reason stuff seems to get high salt scores is cost.
The one ring it would have been favorful to have a line of text that said sacrifice a mountain destroy the one ring
I don't think it should be that easy to destroy the one ring. Otherwise you're just making useless cardboard at the mythic rarity.
I remember once that I gave my friend 70+ treasure tokens in the upkeep because I didn't want to pay for smothering tithe.
As an owner of the saltiest card in EDH, Thassa's Oracle, I can say with immense pride that I have never played this card. I still have a soul, don't fret fellow gamers.
I do use Cyclonic rift though... Sorry lol. And Fierce Guardianship... and Smothering tithe... and Behemoth... and pact of negation... and omniscience.... and force of negation....
y'know what, maybe I deserve to burn at the stake.... but at least I still have my soul for not using Thassa.
It's official, Vorinclex Voice of Hunger is playable again
Honestly, this is just making methink that the commander rupes commity might need to start being stricter with bans.
This is supposed to be a player controlled format, not a wotc controlled one. Yet wotc constantly push the powerlevel to often ridiculous levels.
If more of the truly problematic cards got banned before they even released, wotc might realize something is up.
This list is far from the truth. Blood moon, stasis, Tergrid, Elesh norn, Armageddon, back to basics, vorinclex voice of hunger, static orb. The videos list is actually bullshit
Why is Ugin the Spirit Dragon not on the List? Enters with 6 counters. -X Exiles all colored permanents. I hate this card soo much.
I love cheating my eldrazi lol now I’m putting roaming throne in it to call eldrazi so I can cascade 4 times. I also have other cards that copy the ability so yea fun
combine overwelming splendor with elesh norn grand cenobite. for some extra salt.
Of all time? I was optimistic when winter orb was the first card mentioned. But almost every other card mentioned isn't even 5 years old! Where is: Standstill, Static orb, Pernicious deed, Aluren, Stasis, Smokestack, Land tax, Chalice of the void, Tarmogoyf, Disciple of the vault, Cat/Oven, Force of will, Frantic search, Channel, and Tinker?... Just to name a few off the top of my head.
Thassa's Oracle has to be the least fun way to lose a game. It does not feel like magic, and of all the dumb loop hole ways to win it feels the dumbest and most loop holed. Why on earth did they put that on the card.
I feel like phyrexian obliterater should be on here, everytime i bust him out someone complains about how busted his ability is
M2013 was released in 2012.
My personal list includes Blood Moon, Nevermore, Obliette and all hard stax or Mld. ❤
me a arena player who is so used to playing against all of these cars to the point in which I don't care anymore I enjoy many of these cards and everyone uses them online.
Also the hate on cyc rift is stupid, a 7 mana board wipe. Lol people who hate this card are mad because they don't want to lose
Surprised that Tegrid is not in here but I'm also glad she is not on here.
I have someone in my playgroup who abuses Tegrid... it's certainly high on my list
So long as busted "I win" cards exist I'll always bring an asshole deck to the table.
So its the top 20 cards that people hate that aren't actually the top 20 cards that people hate. Weak
Looks like the components of my next deck!
Okay, so hear me out...
Winter Orb and Prophet of Kruphix.
There are so many spells that exist that kill every card type. If you dont throw a handfull of those in your deck then i dont really feel that bad for you
You know what's really satisfying? Playing clone cards/copy spells that copy these salty cards and somehow utilize their abilities better than the player who had those cards in their deck!
I slaughtered an entire table by milling them out with Altar of the Brood after my Auton Soldier came in as a copy of one of my opponents' Ancient Gold Dragon. All my copies of Ancient Gold Dragon hit, netting me 45 1/1 Faerie Dragons. It was awesome!
I'm surprised Back to Basics wasn't on this list. A guy shows up to your table with a 5 color sliver commander deck, running all these dual and triome lands, and you just drop a Back to Basics on turn 2, 3 or 4 and he is pretty much done.
Omniscience, haaa... That's the whole reason why I put land destruction in my white deck Armageddon, Fall of thran and catastrophe...lol
That was more like an evil scooby-doo than a palpatine tbh
All universes beyond cards. Ones that don't have original versions already in magic. Even worse if they're broken (DnD gets a pass)
Ok for me its all the old and new eldrazi and dragons, and quick quick ramp/ cheatout potental because they all win the same way by making sure you have nothing and they have all the creatures while dealing as much face damage as possible oh yes play ancient copper dragon for three mana and swing for 15 treasures while the ur dragon can deal 20 commander damage
We should Give Mitch 1$ everytime he says Again... d'ont think he would have to worry about Budget 😂
Personally, i think that Craterhoof Behemoth is strong, not salty. For swarm commanders deck, Vrestin, Lathrill, and so on, there is no card like Behemoth for close the game. Other cards like End-Raze or Overwealming Sampede, usually don't boost enought the board to kill 3 players, so Behemoth is required
I understand why Paradox Engine is banned in Commander. Way too much devastating when you play against artefacts decks and later throwing a blast zone to wipe out all your stuff. I'd rather loose from The Millennium Calendar card combo instead.
Expropriate can be completely shut down though for 1 colorless mana with Gerard's Hourglass Pendant. Even at instant speed. You can flash it in response to the spell being cast, then everyone can just pick extra turn. The spell is effectively negated.
famous magic story....in the early days of magic, it was down to th final 2 players....1 guy was outmatched. he draws chaos orb.....proceeds to rip it into about 50 pieces, and manages to take out all his oppenets stuff on the table.
The judges came over, and it was determined the guy who played the chaos orb lost.
Question....WHY did he lose?
I do not understand commander players. As I understand, it's a format specifically trying to be hyper powerful and utilize the largest card pool yet it's players are the saltiest about powerful interaction cards go back to playing standard. "It's no fun when someone controls your actions" oh my gosh it's just a game it's silly and sometimes you're gonna lose good Lord.
thoracle ruined CEDH IMO
The new Dino discover deck is just dumb. Turn 3 then wait 5 minutes for the triggers to finish, then you die.
One ring is super annoying
Also kind of anything that’s over played. I could count how many times I’ve played again mono red swiftspear in the last 3 months. People just want to play the best deck, and think it makes them a good player.. fml.. create you own decks..
I’d like to offer a different perspective on Craterhoof Behemoth:
If Craterhoof Behemoth didn’t exist, all us Green Beatdown players would simply switch to one of the Super Dinos as a finisher.
Yanno, the ones who cheat out *still more* big tramplers *we also have to search for* ?
I’d much rather get my being run over by a wave of Trample over with ASAP, but that’s just me.
Edit: The One Ring really, really needed some kind of once a turn limitation. It’s too easy to untap it multiple times per turn. (Hell, you can automate the untap-process with an Unwinding Clock.)
Card draw is one of those things that can flat break the game.
the one ring is just completely unfair. player is immune for a turn and draws a card for free. they do pay 1 life but not until their next turn. imagine the player just time volts turn 2, turn 3 twiddle the time vault, one ring draws 1, skips a turn but cant be damaged. untaps vault and one ring. d
I stopped playing commander at my local shop because 1 out of every 2 players did the Thassas Oracle Lab Maniac thing. Very lame and way overused.
Dockside feels like Wizards messed up made this card put it in a commander deck and now refuse to acknowledge they did that, it was right around the same time as that Merfolk Pirate who broke commander can’t remember his name 😂
People hate when I cast Sire of Insanity.
I am surprised Arcane Bombardment didn't make this list. cus it pairs really well with instants and sorceries that exile after casting. if you can get cards like Expropriate or Alrund's Epiphany into the graveyard without casting them, Arcane Bombardment exiles an instant or sorcery at random, then copies all those cards exiled with it, then you may cast those copies for free. meaning if you get one of those extra turn cards, and have a steady flow of instants and sorceries you can cast, it's GG right there.
All the salty cards are expensive, lmao.
I feel like Dockside would be nerfed enough by simply putting "Target Opponent" not "opponents"
I feel like all these salty cards bring up a common problem I have when playing edh. Everyone expects you play around their decks and not interfere with them in anyway that is deemed arbitrarily unfair, and I think that leads to dull games. Each of these cards spices up the game a little and sure if I saw them every game, I'd hate it, but I don't.
i dont like this no fun allowed theme in black
This format really should be more regulated. The Commander Advisory Group could actually try doing something to counter Wotc''s relentless printing of overpowered garbage. You know like banning stuff.
I still dont understand why so many people hate dranith magistrate, there are cards that arent even on this list that are worse than that card.
People don't like being forced into dealing with anything. It's kind of absurd considering the amount of answers for that card there are.
Portcullis is another salty card, especially not in commander, when your opponent start with 3 in hand
I'm new to the channel & these videos are so entertaining - thanks for the thought that you put into these, Mitch. :)
He sounds like Yoda with sore throat
I'm surprised that cards like ghostly prison and propaganda didn't make the list, which essentially makes your opponents pay 2 mana for each attacking creature targeted at you.
FUUUUUUUUUUCK THORACLE. Card is single handedly ruining cEDH in the sense it's killing diversity (every "different" deck is still plan B'ing this thing to snipe games for minimal deck requirements) and the other is carrying players hard. This card makes winning trivial and frustratingly will see every decision in a game become meaningless since this requires no set up to pull off. All those terrible misplays? You're good, cuz for 2 cards and 3-4 mana you can just win the whole thing out of nowhere, your only decision making is determining if you gotta enough counters to go for it. The amazing sense of outplay has disappeared when you sit down to 3 players all trying to tutor/counter war into these 2 cards. Even when it's not the winning card you're forced to play around the potential of it starting turn 1 because it has no telegraphing.
This is the RC's greatest sin when it comes to the ban list. It's just as bad as Flash and even they finally said no to that...and in some ways it's even better because it requires less deck space AND is more consistent.
Conpletely agree, Jim is imo a colossal failure as RC member. I got so tired of thoracle I retired from 'competitive' play. I'd immediately ban it given the chance in the interests of deck building diversity.
Thassas oracle is the only reason I will never play CEDH. Sorry but the format looks so boring with it
I still think it would've been funny if the one ring had indestructible unless mount doom is in play
So basically esper sucks got it
Could you make a video on the new Lara Croft card? I really want to build it in paper but am struggling to keep it in a reasonable budget it is killing me
personally love Teferi time raveler. every time the hyper control player complains I just look at him and go "aww is it not fun when you can't play your cards wonder what that is like!"
That’s not really a problem in Commander. So I don’t see why we have to shut off instants?
@@VexylObby I mean I am saying because it happens
yes fk the ring
The one ring needs a ban in historic.
Drannith Magistrate should be banned because its basically a turn 2 "I get to play commander, no one else does" effect until someone draws removal. If something like Swiftfoot boots are attached to it, then it is truly "Commander for 1" gameplay which, IMO, defines 'breaking the format'.
A thought on Dockside- I believe this card first appeared in the Mystic Intellect precon commanded by Sevinne the Chronoclasm. This is where I got my copy anyhow. That deck is notoriously slow because you have to load up your graveyard then start using jumpstart/flashback effects to get it going. I would hazard to guess they designed this card to speed it up without considering the notion that people would move it to other decks. Or they just didnt care which would explain a lot of the design decisions lately.
As long as Drannith lives his life in cEDH (where white Stax decks really need him) and doesn´t appear in many "It´s just a 7" pupstomper decks I don´t care about it. Same is true for Oppo Agent, Thoracle, Dockside or Jeweled Lotus.
I don't know, I kind of feel like if one creature on the board that stops your commander from being played shuts your entire deck down, You're playing some very low power, poorly built decks.
Drannith should be retconned. "Your Opponents can't cast spells from anywhere other than their hands OR Command Zone" otherwise, strictly ban it from Commander
Gaea's Cradleone 1 band
Most of this list is "i dobt like to play against powerful cards that i dont want to play with"
My Narset / Orcish Bowmasters deck isn't working out as well as I had hoped
So... Much... Blue...
There are multiple locals at our new card shop with that Thassa combo, and I hate it. I'm here just trying to play casual Rin & Seri tribal jank, and I get matched to these decks. One guy even tried to counter thassa, but the counterspell was countered by 1 mana open swan song by one of the thassa players thassa won. :/
So stop playing against those people? Have a rule zero conversation. Quit playing a casual 20-turn clock deck against effectively cEDH strats. At some point it's you that keeps running head first in to that wall.
Difficult to avoid when they're paid commander pods. We have EDH pods and cEDH pods. I play the regular ones, and Thassas are allowed there. cEDH at the shop is basically EDH, but allowing proxies too, which I don't do. I prefer more casual too bc I wish to see more variety and actually see board presence as well rather than see players throwing cards like ninja stars and suddenly stating one of them went infinite before the average turn that cultivate might be castable in another deck.
Metas in commander are a bit too clear, as we have thousands of card options for commanders, yet like 2-3 players would stick to Etali, which also tends to infinite the moment he's played with certain cards by milling out all other players with food chain sacking itself + hits. Then there's someone playing a 5 colored ebchantment as their commander bc the flip side is a creature, and when it resolves once or twice, or his Defense of the Heart resolves once, he just wins the game outright bc his deck consists of only removal, counter, protection, and a small number OP creatures, which the enchantment reveals top of deck until hitting one of these creatures. A good few tryhards here, and have already caused a number of players not to come back. A few in the shop at this point have been in discussion of some sort of house rules possibly to deal with this issue, finding ways to rule out decks that tutor quick wins that can consistently present themselves too easily and too often. @pdxholmes
I'm sorry commander players but what the fuck. How are you salty about a lot of these cards .. I get Bowmasters but the rest is just bs
Imagine playing a Rakdos deck against someone that plays Overwhelming Splendour. It’s basically a slow drawn out win for your opponents. People don’t like cards that shut you down and kill you slowly without having good counter play. Having said that, I personally despise extra turn effects.
@@simeongeorgiev852 everything in magic has counterplay.
3 mana and 2 cards to win the game seems pretty OP.
Let them be salty.
quite a few cards on this list don't deserve to be there at all in my opinion. omniscience, i mean it's 10 mana and it does things, but it doesn't draw cards and refill hands or draw cards on it's own, and it's 10 mana overwhelming splendor is 8 mana, barely effects 1 player at the table, i could see how 1 player might get salty, but to make this tier list??? Darksteel monolith again 8 mana and lets you cheat 11 and 13 mana creatures into play like it's 8 mana to cheat an 11 mana critter into play, by 8 mana you really should be doing this kind of thing anyway, and craterhoof, the only bit of salt from this card is truly just how much it see's play, and by that factor, lands should be the saltiest cards, i see an island every game. i don't understand salt factor ratings i guess.
Trust me, Overwhelming Splendor doesn't "barely" affect a player. If you have no instants or sorceries in hand that can deal with it you effectively can't play the game
you gotta remember. if someone’s putting omniscience in their deck, they’re probably not hard casting it. there’s so many ways to cheat out big threats nowadays, the mana cost shouldn’t discount the threat it is
Someone playing omniscience has plenty of draw cards in their decks to draw cards to wnd game rather quickly
if they cast a 10 mana spell, and it resolves, i'd expect them to win the game and do it fairly swiftly. that is the point of 10 mana spells. FFS.
@@stumpjumper6679
I’ve been gone to arrest that blue white, black, white and blue black white have become popular colors because of these types of cards
that was a great list but I think you are missing one and this one is just hated by everybody: HUMILITY. I have played that card many times and nobody likes, no even the owner hahaha
He specified that he's trying to look at more "modern" cards (from the last decade or so), because otherwise the list would be filled with things like Humility and Winter Orb, the things that are just going to be on the saltiest list for as long as Commander is a thing.
One ring should have cumulative upkeep
Build a Salt Tribal deck and use all these at once
Why fierce guardianship is more salty than deflecting swat?
More blue players maybe? So more people have to deal with it
Swat needs a second target to be useful, so it usually needs more boardstate to effect the game. Also Swat costs 30% less than Guardianship.
Because most people don’t like blue players
@@grantbosworth6418 blue players deserve the hate
They need more stuff to stop all the draw
I could have made this same video, but it would be called "My favorite cards to play in commander"
I know this is not in the top end of salt cards, but its a card that i really really dont like ! And Its Sol ring ! So if we are talking tournaments, i can get along with it, its in the format, if it fits ur deck, which it most likely does, you should play it, and the first player that draws it within the first 3-4 turns has a much much higher % chance of winning the game. Fine that's a tournement, its about winning and using the cards in the format to the best possible outcome, i have no problem with that.
BUT, if u are just playing with friends for fun, i think this card is rather toxic! As said its to play for fun with friends, and to play a propper game of magic, giving the first player to draw this card early, a permanent 2 mana advantage for a one time 1 mana cost is pretty stupid. As said in the first part, whoever gets this card out fist in the first 3-4 turns of the game all at sudden has a much much better chance of winning the game, and i really dont like that sort of power on a single card when playing for fun.
Now you might think, this is just a salty player, who has this friend that plays Sol ring in his/her decks, and keeps losing to it cause he cant figure out how to beat it, but no!
I am the player that has a HUGE collection and have about 20-30 decks at any time, and at some point i bought 25 Sol rings, so i could put one in every deck that could make good use of it, and then realised after playing with the decks for a while that this one single card sort of changed the whole gameplay of the decks more often then not, and then took all Sol rings out of every deck again, to help making the games more about playing magic then about who draws this card first, or in other words made the games a lot more fun again.
Now as said to begin with its not a real salt card, and there are many many cards that i consider to be much better and more powerful, but Sol ring just gives a player this lottery effect, which as said is fine in tournaments, but other then that i really dont think such cards bring anything positive to the game.
Hello awesome top 21!!! One love gn