I too purchased one of these regulator ( CMWD-15A ) and wired it in to replace EpeverTracer 4215BN and found that the input and output became the same and of cause, no current gain. A big disappointment on getting ripped off. Where the Trace was working at the MPPT of the PV at 34V and a current of 2Amps producing an output current of 5.3Amps at 12.5V. That a difference in output of 27W from CMWD-15D to 68Watts from the Tracer. It a pity I didn’t see your video earlier Thanks
***** Hi Adam... I'm wondering if you could do a quick video showing the proper way to set up a small solar system? Step by step instructions on the proper way and order to connect everything? Panel/s, controller, battery and inverter.
That looks like a really good PWM controller. Having said that I had one of the blue PWM controllers blow up at half the maximum 10A it was supposed to handle.
i do have important note ....usually in pwm in the first stages when the battery is low the panel voltage = the battery voltages i have tested this on many many pwm controllers the reason is that shorted panel to the battery its voltage willl be dragged down and the panel will trun it self into a current source ...so most likely it is easither pwm or on of switch ...the good way to tell if controller is mppt or not is the current gain since the voltage is already down at panel side then no hope at all it is just on/off/pwm ...
I have just ordered one of these and suspected that it would not be an MPPT because of the price. We have a good quality MPPT that I can compare this to once it arrives. It will be interesting to see the difference between the two.
Use 24 Volt batteries and a beefy PWM charge controller, they voltage from a 60 cell panel very closely matches up with the battery voltage. NOCT voltage for a 60 cel panel is normally in the order of 26-28 Volts (not the 30 Volts from 25C testing). That comes very close to the float voltage for a 24 Volt system, excellent! Cheap
I've bought a few PWM chargers labled as MPPT which obviously are not MPPT simply for the fact that they had been reliable PWM chargers. I think the design of the unit is the first thing that gives it away, also the lack of a heatsink.
Hello. I just watched the testing of this mppt controller. I've seen some mppt controlers and I don't understand something...why all are testing these using small solar panels? I guess you used a 20W panel but how about using an mppt 10A with a 80-100W solar panels and SUN. I think you can't expect an mppt to give the same power that panels are making while there is no sun. I am not an expert but I know that for mppt controlers you should use panels that give a higher voltage and low amps to convert them to lower voltage and higher amperage (eg. 24 V solar panel to charge a 12V battery bank). I likeed this video, thanks for the review but try with bigger panels and see if the amps delivered to the batteries are more than the ones received from the panels; that will be an mppt (how efficient? We'll see than). Another thing is the IP rating of all devices. IP shows the capacity of a product to be used indoor or outdoor ( bigger the numbers - more water and impurity proof) - IP67 or IP68 means that it can be used ourdoor (just the device, not also the wiring because they will be exposed). Take care and congratulatios for using free solar energy
+Julian Ilett Thanks Julian. I'll look forward to your review. Thanks also for the recommendation of the super capacitor module. Makes these videos easier to produce.
Looked familiar - it's the model that you suggested to me! It works, and knows to switch between constant current and constant voltage as it nears the target voltage which in my case is 50.00V. Not sure how well it tracks the MPP yet - panels can have multiple peaks when bypass diodes are used across groups of cells and shadows aren't contiguous, such as from trees.
+Andy Lee Robinson I'm glad to hear it works - I haven't been able to watch Julian's video as I'm away and 3G is thin on the ground. When Julian made his comment above I did think it was most likely to be the model I'd suggested to you. I'm looking forward to getting on line and watching the review as well as seeing your progress with the ebike charging system.
Yes, I wondered if it might be the same model. It's cute and quirky and great value, and refreshingly not fake! Julian's done two videos on it, and a third is to come - check into a cybercafe and get popcorn! :-) I found a way of increasing the input voltage lower limit on the Turnigy Reaktor so it can keep the panels nearer their MPP. I should add a comment to the description and do a new shorter video I got some more cells, made 3 panels and have another one in progress. 400W is starting to get useful! As you saw in my vid, the PVC film deforms, so am currently replacing them with polypropylene which is much better, but a bit less transparent. Ideally I'd like to use ETFE sheets but can't find any here yet. Also adding blocking diodes to each of the six pages, which should help with partial shading. It's really time-consuming work and I haven't finished yet, but here's a pic of them in action, charging 25V at 9 amps. (Top row was unprotected) twitter.com/ahaveland/status/751810138445602816
Thank you what does the display do and the light two wires do please I git one realy cheap just want to know what else I can do as I have no manual do you have manual still by any chance
I have two of them and they work as good as my 200 dollar mppt controller, u need more input power. I use 160 watt panel for a 12 volt deep cycle battery...
Don't just contact them, make sure they refund you. Eventually if enough people do that, they'll stop selling shit and actually sell good items (or properly list it)
So i'm planning to set up a system with 4 cheap 100W panels. I'm interested in having a separate MPPT for each panel. Do you know of any controllers that you can daisy chain or have dual/quad mppts?
i was thinking of an mppt to get best from my panels then feed the battery side of controller into the li-ion controller to get best peformance but no idea what cheap units realy are mppt
aye thinking it maybe something i going to have to spend decent cash on but larger then anything i going to need just so if i ever do go offgrid im ready for upscale but unless i find a nissan leaf battery paock or tesla i think deep cycle might be route i go
We nearly bought this for our little camper - can anyone recommenced gen MPPT regulator for a 80 watt 16'5 v optimum panel to charge our 12V 65amp AGM battery - its a challenge : )
+Trev S If you are wanting to go for the cheapest end of the market you could try this one I looked at... ua-cam.com/video/1z5r3Yo6fmQ/v-deo.html Otherwise the EPEver Tracer A Seties is good... ua-cam.com/video/zTBrktPQdCM/v-deo.html Thing is there isn't too much voltage to play with there for MPPT to work most efficiently. A decent PWM charge controller might still do the job.
I just bought a MPPT controller from Banggood, seems to work really well: m.banggood.com/MPPT5012A-DUO-BT-MPPT-12A-12V-Solar-Charge-Controller-APP-Solar-Regulator-For-Solar-Panel-Charger-p-1334922.html?rmmds=search
+steven keene I do use fuses in my real setup but not when testing - or at least I do between my battery and charge controller and loads. Solar panels don't have any stored energy. If you short the wires on a solar panel they produce current but no voltage - no watts. If you measure the voltage across the terminals while the circuit is open you get a voltage but no current - again no watts. Now if you've got a large array then you need to be more careful. My larger array (200w) has a dc breaker on it - but the smaller ones don't.
that's good to know , I am just starting with a 105ah calcium battery and a 100watt solar panel and a cheap pwm controller and I must find out a couple thing and one of them where fuse's. now can I ask if I connect a load(20watts) to the battery I see the voltage drop from 13.8 to about 12.5 on the pwm controller is that normal ?
Adam Welch i am using a 5 meter 4mm2 solar cable to the charge controller and a 2 meter 4mm2 from the charge controller to the battery. i have a 150watt DC/AC inverter hooked up straight to the battery. so there are not many bad connections possible as what i tink.
+Tanik Sambo they're all the same item, and I've found most of the Chinese sellers are really good. If it doesn't turn up (which I found rare) then they make good by sending another or refunding.
***** Thank you. Do they make one that is higher than 60 volts? I can't seem to find one. I like how these seems to be easier to hook up instead of those other one that needs a shunt and have like 4 cables to deal with.
That's the scary thing is that so many fake MPPT ones are out there. I'm learning that I may have to just bite the bullet and buy a Midnite Solar or similar to get away from the poor quality MPPT controllers.
+Mahmut Kurt Sorry... In order of best to worst, these are the MPPT controllers I've played with: EPSolar Tracer: ua-cam.com/video/zTBrktPQdCM/v-deo.html Eco Worthy: ua-cam.com/video/JgWAa7dmn98/v-deo.html CPT-LA10: ua-cam.com/video/1z5r3Yo6fmQ/v-deo.html I'm fairly sure the tracer is available from AliExpress. I hope that helps.
There are very few controllers on the market specifically designed for lithium. I've been doing some experiments on using a Lead Acid charge controller on lithium ion 18650s. Check out my recent videos to find that series. If you're set on MPPT you may be best off looking at a controller you can change the charging parameters on - like the EPSolar Tracer A Series (again I've done a video you can find on my channel). However you need to think about what features you want for a charge controller - what voltage you are looking at with your lithium cells etc. Once you have all this in mind it should be fairly easy to find the one that suits best. Cheers
I would probabyl use LiFePO4 cells in 3S configuration, but ideally solar charge controller would have option to use from 2S to 5S battery configurations. I need only 5A so if you know any affordable 5A chargers please recommend them. Thanks.
I think you'll find most MPPT charge controllers are 10amp minimum unless you want to use a specific MPPT IC like the CN3722 ( ua-cam.com/video/liYZ5pYOZDE/v-deo.html ) which does come as a module where you can change the termination charge voltage. I think 5 amp is the highest they come in. The EPEver Tracer A 10amp charge controller is fairly cheap for a charge controller with load control, logging etc. and will allow you to change the charging parameters to suit most configurations. Check the manual however before you buy which does state the maximums and minimum values you can assign. You can configure it with either a MT50 meter, a eBox wifi or bluetooth adapter (ua-cam.com/video/iFIiDAw1R3M/v-deo.html ) or a USB cable ( ua-cam.com/video/r3LrWeYYtnQ/v-deo.html ). The latter is your cheapest option.
there is still not correct that you replace with one MPPT controller, the panel charging current is 0.38A, but battery charging current is only at 0.08A. Still that MPPT is not good MPPT.
Apparently it doesn't matter. The wattage in to your batteries was the same on both charge controllers. Not that this excuses false representation, but it appears that for tiny systems like this the MPPT is a waste of money don't you think?
+charlieoscar09 I did think about cutting it open to prove there wasn't the required components to do mppt but actually it was unnecessary and a waterproof charge controller might be of use :-)
You are correct, Adam, that the "MPPT" charge controller you bought definitely does not appear to really be MPPT based on the input/output current/wattage your meters displayed. But also, please realize that the similar PV voltages you measured is not the reason. No matter how high the open circuit voltage of the panel(s) is, a true MPPT charge controller is also going to drag down that voltage to near the current charging voltage because it is going to be utilizing as MUCH energy from the panel as it can (always close to a short circuit). So, even with an expensive MPPT charge controller, you're going to see low voltage across the panel during bulk charging.
I'm sorry but I don't agree. The maximum power point is generally around 80-85% of the open circuit voltage of a panel. Remember power is voltage multiplied by current. For example most '12 volt' panels have an open circuit of 21-22 volts and a MPPT of 17.5-18.5 volts. When a panel is short circuit, there is no voltage and therefore no power, and conversely when a panel is open circuit, there is no current and still no power. In bulk charging mode MPPT charge controllers should be doing DC to DC conversion and attempting to achieve the maximum power from the panels. A good MPPT controller should have a shunt and voltage sense on the panel to work out maximum power, and most use an perturb and observe algorithm to find the maximum power. It will then adjust the DC2DC converter to bring the voltage down to the battery level and increase the current. Most MPPT charge controllers can use much higher voltages on their solar panel input for this very reason (my current one in the shed can have either a 12/24 volt battery system, but panel voltages up to 96 volts). The DC to DC conversion will peak at bulk charging (the highest difference between input and output voltages) - reducing as the battery gets fully charged. The DC to DC converter will almost always be a buck converter - the panel voltage has to be higher than the battery voltage, otherwise it cannot work. In fact I have only ever seen one controller use a boost converter where panel voltage needs to be lower than the battery voltage. PWM charge controllers will however bring their panels down to the battery voltage when in bulk mode - however it is not the maximum power point of the panel - you'll typically only get 70-80% of the rated output of the panel like this. The panel will look to be higher when the battery is getting full as the panel may only be connected to the battery for perhaps 5% of the time - most volt meters will average their reading - but you can see this effect on a oscilloscope. This is the reason I suggest testing the voltages when the battery is low, and the charge controller is in bulk mode. If you haven't seen any of my other videos it might be worth looking at the two real MPPT chargers I've reviewed - there is a clear difference in input and output voltages in bulk charging mode. Sorry for the long post but I hope you find it useful. Thanks for your input.
@@AdamWelchUK I have 3 permanent solsar panels, 2x10W and 1x15W with two portable 30W panels powering the electrics in my motorhome. For exact details www.schoolbushome.blogspot.com. Items powered - a 12v shower, 6 LED lights of between 1 and 3 watts, 4 USB chargers, a handbasin water pump, 3 CPU circulation fans and two 2.5A extraction fans. All running together with a PWM controller and 2 x 35AH SLA
Yes, I verify this is NOT an MPPT controller. I've got the 30A version, same shit. In addition, the very peculiar behaviour of toggling the charge current on-and-off every second or two while battery voltage is around 12 volts (not over 13 volts) and the 40 watt panel should be pushing more than 2 amps at about 18 volts under direct sunshine from blue skyes. Under these conditions a regular cheap PWM would be pushing the 2 amps continuously. This "MPPT" seems to do some computing, since it toggles the output; they have failed both in electronics as well as programming design. Do not buy.
Mostly good vid. Couple of issues. Firstly, how is it that your "genuine" MPPT controller is drawing ~6W and still only putting out 1W? You cited the "fake" as being deficient because it was drawing ~4W and only putting out ~1W, and were scathing about the efficiency, yet overlook this when showing your "genuine" item. Consistent comparison please. Secondly, regulators do not make voltage. They transfer power from the solar cells to the battery, ergo they work with what they have. If you were to conduct this test at night, you will see even less voltage coming from your cells (zero). MPPT effectively means limiting the current draw to not exceed what the cells can provide. I saw your "fake" regulator doing just that. I don't see anything indicating poor performance nor false claims in this at all. I am not affiliated with the manufacturer, just an anti fake-news respondent. You tried hard but the conspiracy seemed to overwhelm the science. I look forward to your angry reply.
I would also like to understand why your genuine MPPT controller is not reaching your expected 17V. Is it only "slightly" genuine? Again, a lack of sunlight me thinks. I also suspect you live in the U.K., which might go some of the way to explaining the shortage of voltage, unless British weather has taken an astounding turn for the better. The answers are out there.
I don't know why you think it's going to be an angry reply. You raise some good questions - let me try and answer them. I did this video in a slightly different style for me. The first part is all about the excitement of buying a new product with it's promises and how you can test some of it's claims with nothing more than a basic voltmeter. I then confirm this with two very cheap meters. It's tongue in cheek. I am not primarily looking at efficiency - but I'll come back to that. The second part is explaining the concept of maximum power point tracking. It is indeed true that the maximum power point is stated on my panels is 17.5volts - but remember that is under the standard testing conditions and real life is rarely like that. That is of cause exactly what the MPPT part of the solar charge controller should be doing - adjusting the load on the panel to find that sweet spot where the most power is being generated under the current conditions. You'll often see panels hovering around their stated MPP but often not bang on. Panels are rarely perfectly on axis. They are rarely in a cloudless sky (at least in the UK as you point out). I'm very confident this charge controller is not MPPT. The panel voltage does not deviate from that of just above the battery voltage (and it's the nature of a solar panel which allows it's voltage to be dragged down to this level and the laws of physics which allow current to flow from the point of higher voltage to the lower). In fact it's the same result if you bypass the charge controller and connect the solar panel straight to a battery (because that's exactly what this charge controller was doing - it's a PWM solar charge controller which was sitting at 100% duty cycle) and of cause that prevents the losses of powering a charge controller at all! If I'd have allowed the battery to get up to 13.8-14.4 volts we may have seen some confusing results. As the duty cycle dropped the average voltage of the panel would increase - it may have looked like it was MPPT but of cause all it is doing is reducing the time the panel is connected to the battery to reduce the power to prevent overcharging. It's this which manufacturers and sellers to argue that their product is indeed MPPT - if they don't just go down the line of 'MPPT is simply just the model number'. The second part of an MPPT charge controller is the DC to DC converter. Taking the higher voltage of the solar panel (the one near it's MPP) and converting that power into a more suitable charge for a battery. Lowering the voltage and increasing the current - hopefully reasonably efficiently. Trouble is converting that power has losses. There are good and bad DC2DC converters (I've recently looked at efficiency of some buck converters in another video) and the efficiency can change by quite a margin. There are also some DC2DC converters that hit 98% or more efficiency in their sweet spot. But out of their comfort range they drop off dramatically and achieve quite a low efficiency. Then take into account that MPPT charge controller tend to have (but not always) higher powered microcontrollers (they've more to consider), LCDs, back light etc. These all take up extra power, so yes it might be less efficient at lower input power than a charge controller without these functions - it doesn't make them any less 'MPPT'. I showed my real MPPT solar charge controller in this video to prove that the panel voltage and the battery voltage should be different. I don't believe I mentioned efficiency at that point because that wasn't the point I was making. It was producing more power (6 watts rather than 4) but it was well out of it's efficiency comfort zone and I did mention it was clouding over. However it was producing more on its input than the fake, but sadly it was using more because of the inefficiency and additional features. Mostly good? I'll take that - thank you very much. I appreciate your comments.
Well your notion that the charge controler controls the direct output of your solar panels into the controler is nonsense. If your panel is at 12v and only pushing 300ma. You must have a 5 watt panel or similar. Not big enough to evaluate an mppt controler of this size. So are you willfully spreading misinformation or are you just clueless? Your choice. I have the same controller that converts 55v to work on the 12v batteries i have. Its called mppt.
I too purchased one of these regulator ( CMWD-15A ) and
wired it in to replace EpeverTracer 4215BN and found that the input and output
became the same and of cause, no current gain. A big disappointment on getting
ripped off. Where the Trace was working
at the MPPT of the PV at 34V and a current of 2Amps producing an output current
of 5.3Amps at 12.5V. That a difference
in output of 27W from CMWD-15D to 68Watts from the Tracer. It a pity I didn’t
see your video earlier
Thanks
Thanks for your work and videos. I think it's great that you make these and help to save money for a lot of people.
+Floyd Thomas Thanks Floyd.
***** Hi Adam... I'm wondering if you could do a quick video showing the proper way to set up a small solar system? Step by step instructions on the proper way and order to connect everything? Panel/s, controller, battery and inverter.
+Floyd Thomas I did cover this a bit a few weeks ago. Perhaps this will cover what you want? ua-cam.com/video/b7jp38sFCHA/v-deo.html
That looks like a really good PWM controller. Having said that I had one of the blue PWM controllers blow up at half the maximum 10A it was supposed to handle.
Good one Adam. I really enjoy yours and Jullian IIett's video's especially on things Solar.
all the best
Mike bak
i do have important note ....usually in pwm in the first stages when the battery is low the panel voltage = the battery voltages i have tested this on many many pwm controllers the reason is that shorted panel to the battery its voltage willl be dragged down and the panel will trun it self into a current source ...so most likely it is easither pwm or on of switch ...the good way to tell if controller is mppt or not is the current gain since the voltage is already down at panel side then no hope at all it is just on/off/pwm ...
I have just ordered one of these and suspected that it would not be an MPPT because of the price. We have a good quality MPPT that I can compare this to once it arrives. It will be interesting to see the difference between the two.
Use 24 Volt batteries and a beefy PWM charge controller, they voltage from a 60 cell panel very closely matches up with the battery voltage.
NOCT voltage for a 60 cel panel is normally in the order of 26-28 Volts (not the 30 Volts from 25C testing). That comes very close to the float voltage for a 24 Volt system, excellent! Cheap
Great review, thank you. LDS reliance is of exactly the same opinion. $100+ to get a n mmpt cc
That IP68 code is to indicate the item's resistance to dust and moisture. The 6 is for dust, and the 8 is for immersion. Look up IP code.
+James Kidd Thank James.
I've bought a few PWM chargers labled as MPPT which obviously are not MPPT simply for the fact that they had been reliable PWM chargers. I think the design of the unit is the first thing that gives it away, also the lack of a heatsink.
Hello. I just watched the testing of this mppt controller. I've seen some mppt controlers and I don't understand something...why all are testing these using small solar panels? I guess you used a 20W panel but how about using an mppt 10A with a 80-100W solar panels and SUN. I think you can't expect an mppt to give the same power that panels are making while there is no sun. I am not an expert but I know that for mppt controlers you should use panels that give a higher voltage and low amps to convert them to lower voltage and higher amperage (eg. 24 V solar panel to charge a 12V battery bank). I likeed this video, thanks for the review but try with bigger panels and see if the amps delivered to the batteries are more than the ones received from the panels; that will be an mppt (how efficient? We'll see than). Another thing is the IP rating of all devices. IP shows the capacity of a product to be used indoor or outdoor ( bigger the numbers - more water and impurity proof) - IP67 or IP68 means that it can be used ourdoor (just the device, not also the wiring because they will be exposed). Take care and congratulatios for using free solar energy
Excellent video Adam. Another fake MPPT. I've got a £30 MPPT coming soon - that'll be fun to test :)
+Julian Ilett Thanks Julian. I'll look forward to your review. Thanks also for the recommendation of the super capacitor module. Makes these videos easier to produce.
Looked familiar - it's the model that you suggested to me!
It works, and knows to switch between constant current and constant voltage as it nears the target voltage which in my case is 50.00V.
Not sure how well it tracks the MPP yet - panels can have multiple peaks when bypass diodes are used across groups of cells and shadows aren't contiguous, such as from trees.
+Andy Lee Robinson I'm glad to hear it works - I haven't been able to watch Julian's video as I'm away and 3G is thin on the ground.
When Julian made his comment above I did think it was most likely to be the model I'd suggested to you. I'm looking forward to getting on line and watching the review as well as seeing your progress with the ebike charging system.
Yes, I wondered if it might be the same model.
It's cute and quirky and great value, and refreshingly not fake!
Julian's done two videos on it, and a third is to come - check into a cybercafe and get popcorn! :-)
I found a way of increasing the input voltage lower limit on the Turnigy Reaktor so it can keep the panels nearer their MPP. I should add a comment to the description and do a new shorter video
I got some more cells, made 3 panels and have another one in progress. 400W is starting to get useful!
As you saw in my vid, the PVC film deforms, so am currently replacing them with polypropylene which is much better, but a bit less transparent. Ideally I'd like to use ETFE sheets but can't find any here yet.
Also adding blocking diodes to each of the six pages, which should help with partial shading.
It's really time-consuming work and I haven't finished yet, but here's a pic of them in action, charging 25V at 9 amps. (Top row was unprotected)
twitter.com/ahaveland/status/751810138445602816
If solar panel is 24V 4A => 96W. To charge 12V ACC: PWM use 12V*4A => 48W. MPPT (24V :12V = 2.0) 12V * (4A*2.0)
Thank you what does the display do and the light two wires do please I git one realy cheap just want to know what else I can do as I have no manual do you have manual still by any chance
Thanks Adam, a very good post, appreciate.
I have two of them and they work as good as my 200 dollar mppt controller, u need more input power. I use 160 watt panel for a 12 volt deep cycle battery...
Great clip...easy to understand
How you connect the 4cwire chare controller?
Now can i just use this to power a small 12V project with solar panels?
Don't just contact them, make sure they refund you. Eventually if enough people do that, they'll stop selling shit and actually sell good items (or properly list it)
So i'm planning to set up a system with 4 cheap 100W panels. I'm interested in having a separate MPPT for each panel. Do you know of any controllers that you can daisy chain or have dual/quad mppts?
+Arnþór Gíslason none that I'm aware of that allow four strings. Two strings is more normal in the higher price brackets.
i was thinking of an mppt to get best from my panels then feed the battery side of controller into the li-ion controller to get best peformance but no idea what cheap units realy are mppt
+David Simpson Well this one, the Grey WellSee unit and the MPPT10/20/30/40 range with the lcd have all been debunked now I think!
aye thinking it maybe something i going to have to spend decent cash on but larger then anything i going to need just so if i ever do go offgrid im ready for upscale but unless i find a nissan leaf battery paock or tesla i think deep cycle might be route i go
Interesting that the fake appt was more efficient at low power. Compare watts in to watts out on video
Do u have the Ckt diagram ???
Awesome, thanks for the investigative video. cheap = junk
+fongiddd On this occasion sadly it does but not always I've found.
perfect video, thank you
+Modest Viking Thanks
We nearly bought this for our little camper - can anyone recommenced gen MPPT regulator for a 80 watt 16'5 v optimum panel to charge our 12V 65amp AGM battery - its a challenge : )
+Trev S If you are wanting to go for the cheapest end of the market you could try this one I looked at... ua-cam.com/video/1z5r3Yo6fmQ/v-deo.html Otherwise the EPEver Tracer A Seties is good... ua-cam.com/video/zTBrktPQdCM/v-deo.html
Thing is there isn't too much voltage to play with there for MPPT to work most efficiently. A decent PWM charge controller might still do the job.
I just bought a MPPT controller from Banggood, seems to work really well: m.banggood.com/MPPT5012A-DUO-BT-MPPT-12A-12V-Solar-Charge-Controller-APP-Solar-Regulator-For-Solar-Panel-Charger-p-1334922.html?rmmds=search
Adam, why in the world would you waist your time when there are nice mppt’s out there..
But, thanks for your time mate.
Dennis
Why is nobody using a Fuse between there solar panel and charge controller & charge controller to Battery , is there a reason not to ?
+steven keene I do use fuses in my real setup but not when testing - or at least I do between my battery and charge controller and loads.
Solar panels don't have any stored energy. If you short the wires on a solar panel they produce current but no voltage - no watts. If you measure the voltage across the terminals while the circuit is open you get a voltage but no current - again no watts.
Now if you've got a large array then you need to be more careful.
My larger array (200w) has a dc breaker on it - but the smaller ones don't.
that's good to know , I am just starting with a 105ah calcium battery and a 100watt solar panel and a cheap pwm controller and I must find out a couple thing and one of them where fuse's. now can I ask if I connect a load(20watts) to the battery I see the voltage drop from 13.8 to about 12.5 on the pwm controller is that normal ?
+steven keene That kind of voltage drop on a 105ah battery doesn't sound quite right. Is your cabling up to the job - any poor connections?
Adam Welch i am using a 5 meter 4mm2 solar cable to the charge controller and a 2 meter 4mm2 from the charge controller to the battery. i have a 150watt DC/AC inverter hooked up straight to the battery. so there are not many bad connections possible as what i tink.
if i disconnect the load the battery will go the 13.8V within a couples of seconds/minutes
what watt meter is that and where did u get it?
There's loads of them on ebay: goo.gl/nOJKN8 They're pretty useful.
***** is there any particular one you recommend ?
+Tanik Sambo they're all the same item, and I've found most of the Chinese sellers are really good. If it doesn't turn up (which I found rare) then they make good by sending another or refunding.
***** Thank you. Do they make one that is higher than 60 volts? I can't seem to find one. I like how these seems to be easier to hook up instead of those other one that needs a shunt and have like 4 cables to deal with.
***** thanks. Just watching your other videos now.
That's the scary thing is that so many fake MPPT ones are out there. I'm learning that I may have to just bite the bullet and buy a Midnite Solar or similar to get away from the poor quality MPPT controllers.
Hi adam, can you edvice MPPT solar panel charcer ? want to buy from aliexpres.
+Mahmut Kurt I'm afraid I don't understand what you are asking.
can you recommendation (edvice) MPPT solar charcer ?
+Mahmut Kurt Sorry... In order of best to worst, these are the MPPT controllers I've played with:
EPSolar Tracer: ua-cam.com/video/zTBrktPQdCM/v-deo.html
Eco Worthy: ua-cam.com/video/JgWAa7dmn98/v-deo.html
CPT-LA10: ua-cam.com/video/1z5r3Yo6fmQ/v-deo.html
I'm fairly sure the tracer is available from AliExpress. I hope that helps.
thankyou Adam, you are rigth, you are Adam, İf can you check dictionary Adam means from Türkish to English, will you hapy.
Which 10A MPPT for Lithium batteries should I buy?
There are very few controllers on the market specifically designed for lithium. I've been doing some experiments on using a Lead Acid charge controller on lithium ion 18650s. Check out my recent videos to find that series.
If you're set on MPPT you may be best off looking at a controller you can change the charging parameters on - like the EPSolar Tracer A Series (again I've done a video you can find on my channel). However you need to think about what features you want for a charge controller - what voltage you are looking at with your lithium cells etc. Once you have all this in mind it should be fairly easy to find the one that suits best. Cheers
I would probabyl use LiFePO4 cells in 3S configuration, but ideally solar charge controller would have option to use from 2S to 5S battery configurations.
I need only 5A so if you know any affordable 5A chargers please recommend them. Thanks.
I think you'll find most MPPT charge controllers are 10amp minimum unless you want to use a specific MPPT IC like the CN3722 ( ua-cam.com/video/liYZ5pYOZDE/v-deo.html ) which does come as a module where you can change the termination charge voltage. I think 5 amp is the highest they come in.
The EPEver Tracer A 10amp charge controller is fairly cheap for a charge controller with load control, logging etc. and will allow you to change the charging parameters to suit most configurations. Check the manual however before you buy which does state the maximums and minimum values you can assign. You can configure it with either a MT50 meter, a eBox wifi or bluetooth adapter (ua-cam.com/video/iFIiDAw1R3M/v-deo.html ) or a USB cable ( ua-cam.com/video/r3LrWeYYtnQ/v-deo.html ). The latter is your cheapest option.
Apa merknya dan belinya dimana.brpa harganya
Yea I've seen thousands of "mppt"s that were just a PWMs in reel..
Thank U !
there is still not correct that you replace with one MPPT controller, the panel charging current is 0.38A, but battery charging current is only at 0.08A. Still that MPPT is not good MPPT.
Nowadays online market is full of fake specifications. How do the authorities would end this?
mppt "Master power point Tracking"
Just see the sticker, there is no factory information, so it is high possibility it is fake one.
Apparently it doesn't matter. The wattage in to your batteries was the same on both charge controllers. Not that this excuses false representation, but it appears that for tiny systems like this the MPPT is a waste of money don't you think?
Pheeew Adam glad that was PWM ...Im not buying anymore Solar chargers...ha ha Adam how about a tear down of that charger to expel the myth.
+charlieoscar09 I did think about cutting it open to prove there wasn't the required components to do mppt but actually it was unnecessary and a waterproof charge controller might be of use :-)
No problems Adam good luck the projects
Thanks for yet another great video, thanks for keeping the bastards honest.
Now you know why it is potted
You are correct, Adam, that the "MPPT" charge controller you bought definitely does not appear to really be MPPT based on the input/output current/wattage your meters displayed. But also, please realize that the similar PV voltages you measured is not the reason. No matter how high the open circuit voltage of the panel(s) is, a true MPPT charge controller is also going to drag down that voltage to near the current charging voltage because it is going to be utilizing as MUCH energy from the panel as it can (always close to a short circuit). So, even with an expensive MPPT charge controller, you're going to see low voltage across the panel during bulk charging.
I'm sorry but I don't agree. The maximum power point is generally around 80-85% of the open circuit voltage of a panel. Remember power is voltage multiplied by current. For example most '12 volt' panels have an open circuit of 21-22 volts and a MPPT of 17.5-18.5 volts. When a panel is short circuit, there is no voltage and therefore no power, and conversely when a panel is open circuit, there is no current and still no power.
In bulk charging mode MPPT charge controllers should be doing DC to DC conversion and attempting to achieve the maximum power from the panels. A good MPPT controller should have a shunt and voltage sense on the panel to work out maximum power, and most use an perturb and observe algorithm to find the maximum power. It will then adjust the DC2DC converter to bring the voltage down to the battery level and increase the current.
Most MPPT charge controllers can use much higher voltages on their solar panel input for this very reason (my current one in the shed can have either a 12/24 volt battery system, but panel voltages up to 96 volts). The DC to DC conversion will peak at bulk charging (the highest difference between input and output voltages) - reducing as the battery gets fully charged. The DC to DC converter will almost always be a buck converter - the panel voltage has to be higher than the battery voltage, otherwise it cannot work. In fact I have only ever seen one controller use a boost converter where panel voltage needs to be lower than the battery voltage.
PWM charge controllers will however bring their panels down to the battery voltage when in bulk mode - however it is not the maximum power point of the panel - you'll typically only get 70-80% of the rated output of the panel like this. The panel will look to be higher when the battery is getting full as the panel may only be connected to the battery for perhaps 5% of the time - most volt meters will average their reading - but you can see this effect on a oscilloscope. This is the reason I suggest testing the voltages when the battery is low, and the charge controller is in bulk mode.
If you haven't seen any of my other videos it might be worth looking at the two real MPPT chargers I've reviewed - there is a clear difference in input and output voltages in bulk charging mode.
Sorry for the long post but I hope you find it useful. Thanks for your input.
Base on the video the MTTP controller need 3 watts to operate, if the input wattage is 50 watts then the output will be 47 watts .
Do you ever pursue the peddlers of fake MPPT controllers for a refund?
Sometimes when the advert is clearly lying. I’d imagine my videos have more effect on sales though than my one refund.
@@AdamWelchUK Ah so this is more of an entertainment thing for you then?
I think you'd love my solar setup.
Zephod Beeblebrox I guess. Yes I like all solar setups! :-)
@@AdamWelchUK I have 3 permanent solsar panels, 2x10W and 1x15W with two portable 30W panels powering the electrics in my motorhome. For exact details www.schoolbushome.blogspot.com. Items powered - a 12v shower, 6 LED lights of between 1 and 3 watts, 4 USB chargers, a handbasin water pump, 3 CPU circulation fans and two 2.5A extraction fans. All running together with a PWM controller and 2 x 35AH SLA
Yes, I verify this is NOT an MPPT controller. I've got the 30A version, same shit.
In addition, the very peculiar behaviour of toggling the charge current on-and-off every second or two while battery voltage is around 12 volts (not over 13 volts) and the 40 watt panel should be pushing more than 2 amps at about 18 volts under direct sunshine from blue skyes. Under these conditions a regular cheap PWM would be pushing the 2 amps continuously. This "MPPT" seems to do some computing, since it toggles the output; they have failed both in electronics as well as programming design.
Do not buy.
the battery wants 13.6 or 14.4 volts to be fully charged which needs about 16 volts from solar...
It's banned to ship to USA now, Hope other countries follow.
Source? Lol
why does this not surprise me lol
Buy Genasun or nothing.
i got same charge controller thought same now i know its fake lol luckily was cheap
Do you know, it's a pretty useful PWM solar charge controller. Waterproof and sturdy. Why ruin it by saying it is MPPT?
will keep it of course still will be used one day, not sure why they say MPPT if it's not lol
Just refund the money, i bet it's fine as a free pwm controller.
Mostly good vid. Couple of issues. Firstly, how is it that your "genuine" MPPT controller is drawing ~6W and still only putting out 1W? You cited the "fake" as being deficient because it was drawing ~4W and only putting out ~1W, and were scathing about the efficiency, yet overlook this when showing your "genuine" item. Consistent comparison please. Secondly, regulators do not make voltage. They transfer power from the solar cells to the battery, ergo they work with what they have. If you were to conduct this test at night, you will see even less voltage coming from your cells (zero). MPPT effectively means limiting the current draw to not exceed what the cells can provide. I saw your "fake" regulator doing just that. I don't see anything indicating poor performance nor false claims in this at all. I am not affiliated with the manufacturer, just an anti fake-news respondent. You tried hard but the conspiracy seemed to overwhelm the science. I look forward to your angry reply.
I would also like to understand why your genuine MPPT controller is not reaching your expected 17V. Is it only "slightly" genuine? Again, a lack of sunlight me thinks. I also suspect you live in the U.K., which might go some of the way to explaining the shortage of voltage, unless British weather has taken an astounding turn for the better. The answers are out there.
I don't know why you think it's going to be an angry reply. You raise some good questions - let me try and answer them.
I did this video in a slightly different style for me. The first part is all about the excitement of buying a new product with it's promises and how you can test some of it's claims with nothing more than a basic voltmeter. I then confirm this with two very cheap meters. It's tongue in cheek. I am not primarily looking at efficiency - but I'll come back to that.
The second part is explaining the concept of maximum power point tracking. It is indeed true that the maximum power point is stated on my panels is 17.5volts - but remember that is under the standard testing conditions and real life is rarely like that. That is of cause exactly what the MPPT part of the solar charge controller should be doing - adjusting the load on the panel to find that sweet spot where the most power is being generated under the current conditions. You'll often see panels hovering around their stated MPP but often not bang on. Panels are rarely perfectly on axis. They are rarely in a cloudless sky (at least in the UK as you point out).
I'm very confident this charge controller is not MPPT. The panel voltage does not deviate from that of just above the battery voltage (and it's the nature of a solar panel which allows it's voltage to be dragged down to this level and the laws of physics which allow current to flow from the point of higher voltage to the lower). In fact it's the same result if you bypass the charge controller and connect the solar panel straight to a battery (because that's exactly what this charge controller was doing - it's a PWM solar charge controller which was sitting at 100% duty cycle) and of cause that prevents the losses of powering a charge controller at all! If I'd have allowed the battery to get up to 13.8-14.4 volts we may have seen some confusing results. As the duty cycle dropped the average voltage of the panel would increase - it may have looked like it was MPPT but of cause all it is doing is reducing the time the panel is connected to the battery to reduce the power to prevent overcharging. It's this which manufacturers and sellers to argue that their product is indeed MPPT - if they don't just go down the line of 'MPPT is simply just the model number'.
The second part of an MPPT charge controller is the DC to DC converter. Taking the higher voltage of the solar panel (the one near it's MPP) and converting that power into a more suitable charge for a battery. Lowering the voltage and increasing the current - hopefully reasonably efficiently. Trouble is converting that power has losses. There are good and bad DC2DC converters (I've recently looked at efficiency of some buck converters in another video) and the efficiency can change by quite a margin. There are also some DC2DC converters that hit 98% or more efficiency in their sweet spot. But out of their comfort range they drop off dramatically and achieve quite a low efficiency.
Then take into account that MPPT charge controller tend to have (but not always) higher powered microcontrollers (they've more to consider), LCDs, back light etc. These all take up extra power, so yes it might be less efficient at lower input power than a charge controller without these functions - it doesn't make them any less 'MPPT'.
I showed my real MPPT solar charge controller in this video to prove that the panel voltage and the battery voltage should be different. I don't believe I mentioned efficiency at that point because that wasn't the point I was making. It was producing more power (6 watts rather than 4) but it was well out of it's efficiency comfort zone and I did mention it was clouding over. However it was producing more on its input than the fake, but sadly it was using more because of the inefficiency and additional features.
Mostly good? I'll take that - thank you very much. I appreciate your comments.
Well your notion that the charge controler controls the direct output of your solar panels into the controler is nonsense. If your panel is at 12v and only pushing 300ma. You must have a 5 watt panel or similar. Not big enough to evaluate an mppt controler of this size. So are you willfully spreading misinformation or are you just clueless? Your choice. I have the same controller that converts 55v to work on the 12v batteries i have. Its called mppt.
Theres nothing wrong with controller ive used these its because you have not enough watts coming in off panels the battery is loading up the panel