I bet if they were borded next to Mexico then their recidivism rate wouldnt be that high. The amount of money ppl can make selling drugs is very tempting no matter what.
I was like, “they have a f**king garden to get their vegetables from!!?”😂😂😂. The stark difference- I was rofl. But you’re right- only 1 in reoffend there. Here (US)- they’re treated like, no worse than animals. No wonder it’s just inmates who now learn not to get caught on their next crime. I know it’s not nearly the same thing, but I only got sober because the 5th time I was in treatment, they were so nice and respectful. I didn’t have to worry about abuse from counselors and completely focused on treatment and once withdrawal went away, I actually liked my time there. But I’m aware, the families of victims want them to suffer, which I totally understand. To me, it’s a better society there and the goal is for them not to harm anyone else. prison is reform there, not watching your ass in the shower as your goal.
6:11 Most of Norway doesn't have a homeless population at all. We *do* have beggars. And there are homeless people in the capital. Many of them either non-citizens who don't have rights in our welfare system yet or people who are on drugs or they're people who just can't deal with the official system for whatever reason (for instance due to mental health issues). They just can't handle the application processes and the fixed payments of rent (even with help and money paid out to cover the cost). There *are* systems available to help all of these people, but it's hard to get everything working well enough to keep *everyone* off the streets.
I live in Norway and my best friend was murdered when she was 15. I really do hate the man. But I didn't want him to be abused in prison. I wanted him away from the rest of us. And my wish is that he comes out a better person so he never does that to anyone else. Revenge would not help bring her back. It can be easy to think about revenge, but if the loved ones of a victim really think about it, does revenge really help anything...
Many people miss the fact that the standard of living is suposed to be like on the outside. Norway has one of the highest standard of living in the world so for Norwegians what you see there is not that great. What may also schook you is that they still have the right to vote as prisoners, politicans visit and campagning inside the prision. When you have spend your time your debt to the country is payed and you have the right to at least minimum living standard ( a home, free healtcare, liveable pension an so on ). In US you brag about your freedom but I think a famouse song describe your freedom best " Freedom is just another word for nothing more to lose". I dont know about an animal more scary then a "Free" man. About the victims family: One of the fathers who lost his son at the terrorist attack sayed that he did not want to follow the terrorist down the less developed life. After the terrorist attack Norways respons was more freedom, not limiting Norwegians freedom.
That is a commendable sentiment. I wish our country had such a high standard of living. I can understand why Norway has such a different justice system. Norway's population is les than 6 million and gives citizenship to about 60,000 each year. In the US the population is over 360 million and we have cities with populations well over 6 million. We also have a very liberal immigration policy. Millions of people from all over the world migrate to the US legally and illegally every year. We have over 11 million undocumented immigrants here. We will get over 1 million illegal immigrants this year alone. We give legal citizenship to over 1 million each year. We have many different cultures so it is difficult to control people that have different languages, values, cultures and different standards of justice, so we have more crime. Also a large portion of our taxes go towards providing benefits, security and protection for other countries. We would have to change a lot of policies to afford to have a prison system like Norway.
@@cosinthenews I know that it is a long way to go and most likely not for a hundered years. It may be possibel in the smaller states if permitted and wanted. I also know that as long as you dont give them a chance when they get out you newer will get the crime down. A man who can not get a job and a place to live will do what he have to do.
In Norway we don’t have homelessness. If we do they just won’t take the help handed to them. Michael Moore has a video on Norway’s prison where he talks to a father of a victim at the 22.July shooting.
4:35 Making the convict suffer isn't justice for the victim. It doesn't bring their loved ones back. And quite frankly in the US "the victims" are being used to justify harsher punishments, but the reality is that they often *don't* want the family of the criminals or even the criminal themselves to suffer like they have. And furthermore, is it justice to let out a broken person that'll create more victims?
In my opinion it would feel like a punch in the face to know that the guy who killed my sister is now chilling his ass off in a luxurious, beautiful and comfortable "prison". I could also imagine this would encourage people to do crimes because they won't fear the consequences. As I said this is just my opinion but I've always liked the "eye for an eye" concept and this feels more like "eye for a vacation".
@@KompetenteEnte Making prisoners suffer creates more, not less crime. People don't abstain from comitting crime no matter how harsh the punishment is. And the police and justice system can never put an end to crime. Things like the welfare system, the education system and a number of other systems in society has far more impact on crime then police officers and the justice system. Police officers are more there to deal with the issue there and then and help out when someone needs a timeout from society in order to not harm society, not as a punishment, just in order to ensure that they actually learn what they need to learn without harming others.
@@KompetenteEnte The flaw in your argument lies in the final point. We do not desire a society in which individuals are virtuous solely out of fear for the repercussions of their actions. Rather, we aspire to a society where people act morally because they derive pleasure from doing so. Nothing transforms a person's character more effectively than encountering kindness in response to negativity. Much needs to be reformed before America can recover from its uncompromising stance toward each and every individual. There is a profound issue afflicting America. One cannot even drive on the road without apprehension of encountering law enforcement, even when not engaged in any wrongdoing. The laws and regulations empower the police to stop any vehicle on the road. Even in cases where there is no legal basis for such actions provocations can easily make one up. To a certain extent, America has already evolved into a police state. The populace lives in a constant state of fear and perpetual anger.
@@UA-cam_Stole_My_Handle_Too it seems you guys are taking this prison issue and using it to criticize American society as a whole. However it’s very funny because you are probably using an iPhone which is an American company Google / UA-cam which is an American company. You are probably wearing Nikes which is an American company and you are using the Internet which is largely and American creation. You all have Twitter accounts which is also American. So keep that in mine. Our society has done more for the world in the last 200 years than many countries that have existed for centuries. I can’t name one thing that Norway has produced. Educate me.
@@cosinthenews There are tons of good things that come from America, but American products and the American justice system are two entirely different things. When people are incarcerated they have to adjust to the new environment and become like the people they are with to survive. When they are released, they still have the same criminal mindset as they did in prison. Since they are not taught new skills and don't get any help, they fall back on crime because they're good at it. As a result, there is more crimes, more inmates, and more victims. Like the guy said, "If you treat a human like a human, you get a human. If you treat a human like an animal, you get an animal."
They are not living in luxury, this is just the average level of living standard in Norway. Usa or other less developed are corrupt and segregated and the disinvestment on society is reflected on the quality of public institutions (includes prisons). And to those that think we are not being "hard" enough on prisoners through material depravity is sort of primitive and conservative thinking.
One thing I hoped you'd ask is whether the American Correctional Officers deserve better pay, less stress, lower self-harm rates, and pleasant work environment. I don't think they receive any of that at the moment, while the Scandinavian system offers them exactly that. Norway introduced those reforms after 3 correctional officers were murdered in their American-style prisons in the early 90s. They rethinked the entire system and so far it works.
From an ex prison nurse. We need to focus on retaining good officers. Pay them what they're worth. Recruit and retain quality staff. Many are natural mentors and well respected by their peers as well as inmates. For those inmates who are making good choices, allow more privileges. For those inmates who don't, don't. Give the officers the tools and training to do their jobs including de-escalation training. What all else fails and they have to go hands on, stop nitpicking the hell out of them. Some inmates simply refuse any help. That's their choice and God bless the officers who have to deal with them.
So you're a nurse. Meaning you have a good education. In Norway, prison guards have 3 years of education. Most of it, focuses on being a social worker, and that is the same, if they get work, in the prison in the video, or a more traditional one. In the US, anyone can become a prison guard, it seems, with "weeks of training". No skills required.
The victim’s feelings doesn’t really come into the equation. Performing revenge on behalf of victims is not a responsibility for the authorities. Victims are compensated in other ways.
It's not revenge so much as justice. The victim does have a voice. In the US the victim and their family are allowed to make "victim impact statements" to express to the court what they feel should be done and the court takes that into consideration.
@@cosinthenews I see. I am no expert, and have little or no experience in this. However, I feel making the everyday environment for inmates worse than necessary is more of a revenge thing than justice.
@@cosinthenews If you do not see that your system is based solely on two things, revenge and profit, then there is something wrong with your view of punishment, justice and rehabilitation. Your system has for decades been classified as torture and a violation of human rights by the UN, but you people don't seem to care about that at all.
@@cosinthenews Takeing their freedom is the revenge and justice. But Americans seem to have the urge for makeing the punishment as crual as posible. Which results in inmates that are let free, are not rebilitated, they have lost all thrust in sociaty and now maybe THEY want revenge. Does that sound like a healthy sociaty to you ?
I started laughing uncontrollably at first because treating people like human beings in prison was such a ridiculous thing for me to hear-/ like a joke. Then I watched this seriously and it’s like here in the US, we almost want people to spit on to make ourselves feel better about ourselves so let’s make sure these people come out with even more problems than when they went in to prison. Oh and abuse them while they’re in there. Actually truly wanting then putting the resources into rehabilitation and treating people with dignity instead of depriving them of basic human rights does lower recidivism and homelessness - wow, go figure. I’m stating it sarcastically but we look at this here like “it’s not our problem.”😢😢
I watched this video & it’s really interesting and very very good video to watch. This is an example of how prison should be. This prison is more like a rehabilitation center and help inmates reflect on their crimes & it has programs here that can help themselves and do something to pay & help their victims. Here in the US, it’s more like: they don’t have these types of resources in prison because, prison in the US makes the inmate more worse. There’s no rehab or programs that can help them learn and reflect. prison in the US is like you’re doing crime in the streets. If the prison system here has a similar system like Norway it can help inmates here have a 2nd chance to redeem themselves and help repent to their victims. I agree with the documentary and it’s description of how prison should be a rehab to learn and reflect. Here in America, you’re seen like a less of a person. Just because someone did a Robery, assault or anything illegal, doesn’t mean we see them as monsters. They’re lost or something bad has happened in their personal lives. I haven’t been to Norway and I heard it’s really nice there. One Norwegian who watched this video, the country doesn’t have much homeless because they tend to assist them with resources. While in the US they left to rot in the street, some Americans complain about homeless people, well just and FYI it’s the government who inputs dumb laws and policies + they’re ones who’s making facilities/group homes that encourages them to do drugs. This prison is a great example because prisoners in Norway can help repent to their victims who they did damages to them and I think Norway is the best example of 2nd & better opportunities.
Im from Norway and i both agree and disagree with this kind of prison system. Yes it do work but i do wish we had some more US style prisons for those that keep committing crimes. Yes first time offenders especially that have committed minor crimes that are enough to land them in prison do deserve a chance to turn their life around. But people that keep committing crimes time after times and just treats the prisons as a vacation, they no longer deserve to be treated like this cause they clearly don't learn from it.
If you live in Norway you should already know that you don't get to these two places by default. You have to prove you can behave and Bastoy is probably near end of your prison sentence. You also have to remember that they're monitored. Mistakes? You will go back to closed prison..
The issue is ''Justice'' Isn't actually a thing, No matter how people talk about evil or good, in the end you will die and be forgotten in some way or another, To just give your life to emotion and anger and live thinking about ''revenge, justice, what is right for you'' If you just let go and accept, forgive and understand you will be ''free'' An animal who has their children hunted doesn't think about revenge, they move on and live another day and the cycle goes on, YOu're not some main character, If something happens to you, You don't gain anything by ''seeking justice in some self righteous way'' no matter how wronged you feel
In the United States, half the population lives in poverty. Is the political system in the USA fair? Poverty is the root of crime. The majority in the US don't understand that, I think. It is about cause and effect.
@@sakuraaishi246 What is your view on the death penalty? If a murderer is executed then he will not commit other crimes and will not ever be able to hurt anyone else. Is that a solution?
@@cosinthenews I don't agree with the death penalty in my opinion should be abolished our are justice system is pivotive eye for eye which I think is stupid the death penalty should be the last resort in my opinion cuz everybody can be learn from their past mistakes is this social justice system focus helping the inmate instead of punishment them punishment just leads more revenge and revenge is not good
@@cosinthenews I'm totally against the death penalty because it isn't solving anything. It isn't even stoping people from commiting crimes that are worth to get the death penalty for. Look at Tookie Williams. I know that there are controversies about if he really changed or just played the reformed guy. But just imagine that he really became a great person that did his best to make the world a better place. Do you really want to put someone like that on the chair? Or should he have a chance to get out of prison after a reasonable time and make the world outside a better place? You can still keep him in prison until he dies if he keeps to be a danger to society. Like the Nazi guy mentioned in the video. His max sentence is 21 years but he will never see the outside world again because after his 21 years he will spend the rest of his life in a prison-like mental facility if he dosn't change. And arend't the USA so adamant about being christian? The christian god says that killing people is a sin and one of the core principles of the christian believe is that you have to forgive peoples sins if they truly regret their sins. But you break these principles by killing people regardless of if they regret their sins and become great people. Dosn't sound christian to me. A friend of mine killed someone in a bar fight and got 7.5 years in prison. There he learned how to solve problems without violence, he became a model inmate and was released after almost 5 years. Now he is a loving father of 3 kids and never commited any crime in the almost 20 years since he was released. In the USA he prob would have served 15 - 30 years and turned into a crazy animal in prison.
The person in the prison do not have their freedom to come and go as they wish or see their family and friends everyday. It is still a prison and still a punnishment. Question that should be asked is what kind of a person do we want to interact with or live on the same street with when they get out. The person in US who been treated like a animal and learned nothing else but hate and punnishment or the person who is getting help to find their way back to a life that is not about crime anymore. The fallback on crime is such a huge difference between US prisons and prisons around EU so i think that is telling more about what is the best way. Also there do not have to be do or don't version. There is always a middle way. Things to change so that people who leave prison when they done their time will not fall back to crime again in the rating that US have now. Also something that always blew my mind. In the US you can never vote again if you been convicted. But you can still be a president even if you are convicted. Why is that?
It is definitely a mixed bag. But in terms of price it may be 3 times more expensive than what the US has, but the US also has 5% of the worlds population and more than 20% of the worlds incarceration population.
I would be interested in seeing what the officer turn over rate is. Heck, the inmates live WAY better than the CO'S that manage them, by USA standards anyway. As a retired CO, I can say those conditions are very comfortable for the naughty folks.
Yeah, they live better for sure by our standards. I wonder would people in the US commit crimes just so they could go to prison if the conditions were like Norway's?
I just watched a documentary about Little Scandinavia project in SCI Chester, and the turn over rate at the Swedish prison they visited was 9% a year, and 6% of sick days used annually. Average age of a CO is 43, with 44% of all employees being female. They also earn median national income, while google suggests US COs earn below median wage. It's not that the inmates are treated like kings in Scandinavia, it's that in the US prison system is massively underpaid - both COs and money spent on prison facilities.
Most victims primarily want to save the next potential victims from suffering like they do. Focussing on revenge is not a good way to deal with trauma and doesn't contribute much to the process of healing. It's a quick adrenaline rush, a cop-out, cheap and easy but with little lasting benefit to the victims. Makes for exciting Hollywood movies, but not healthy in real life.
To understand the Norwegian psyche you need to remove individualism from the equation. The idea is that you as correctional officers aren't there to punish anyone, the system does that job by keeping you locked in jail. The idea is to foster a better future. Also the investment is worth it because those who get released are educated and jump right in to the economical system paying back ten folds in taxes instead of reoffending causing damage and further expenditure. if you look at it this way USA pay way more each individual. Its basically quality over quantity. You dont want to create a system where everyone loses, we want to improve not get worse
Considering that Norawy has lower rates of violent crimes compared to America and Canada, it seems that the concept of their prison system is more effective. I would say that there needs to be a system that emphasizes more on accountability and rehabilitation instead of just a punishment for however long and just let them out without molding them into productive members of society.
One of the biggest problems I see in the US and I speak from firsthand experience, is the punishment doesn’t always fit the crime. And of course I’m talking about the lengthy sentences for drugs (mainly for selling or manufacturing/delivering them). It’s not uncommon for sentences in multiple decades, 20 to 30 years, for selling hard drugs. And generally speaking, drug dealers aren’t pushing stuff on unwilling participants. Now before anyone slams me about addiction and once addicted people are helpless and all that, I get it. Some hard drugs are evil and will ruin a person. But still, to dole out 20/30/40 years for that compared to most homicides not getting that much time is ridiculous. Rapists and child molesters often get less time than a cocaine dealer! Now on the other hand, when taking someone’s life maliciously then I do believe you should pay heavily. We’ve got a lot of sickos here that have committed the most brutal and disgusting murders rapes tortures etc and I have no compassion for them. But overall our criminal justice system is flawed, disproportionate, and does nothing to try and rehabilitate those that just made a bad choice. There’s education programs, career training, and ministry programs in most prisons but when you over-house or overpopulate these places you end up mixing the worst offenders with those offenders who actually that bad, are often non voilent, and may have just been trying to make a living yet in an illegal way. When you mix everyone up like this it just fosters institutionalism and you just end up “teaching” that ok person more bad habits from their peers. I’ve literally seen it first hand. I’ve witnessed impressionable young kids (legal adults though) get swallowed up and turned into lifelong criminals that return time and again. The gangs and drugs are just as bad inside as they are outside the prison. And don’t get me started on our for profit prison system in the some of US. There’s a reason we have the largest incarcerated population in the world! But yeah, it’s a tough call when it come to some of this. I see both sides. I personally lean towards the Norway model except for the most egregious cases and anything to do with molesting children of course! The Officer they interviewed made a really good point when he made the treating someone like an animal they’ll act like an animal comment and someone in the comments too made a good one that while the victims may not be served best, nothing is gonna bring back their loved ones??!???
"Justice for the victims" in your mind doesn't lead to justice for future people who will interact with the convicts once they are out of jail. The goal is to make them normal functional people again so they don't resort to crime ever again, if you cannot agree with that then you are in the wrong business.
I posted about four months ago, but instead of just sharing how I felt about how it was a good prison model, I should have shared my personal experiences. I’ve been a victim of two violent crimes and one house break in while I was home. The police and I assume the latter was looking for money for drugs. He got a lot of expensive items and was never caught. However, he would not end up in a maximum security prison, but if he did, I would have no issue with him being in a prison like this to be rehabilitated. I did not report the violent crimes for personal reasons. However, if I had and they were indicted, convicted, and received time in prison… yeah, I can honestly say I’d prefer they be here than in an American prison. I know some people will think that’s insane, and I understand their reasons. But I believe the punishment should be being taken away from society. I want them to be rehabilitated. I don’t want them to offend again. I don’t ever want it to happen to anybody else. (I’m also not naive enough to believe this model will happen in the United States.) To me, rehabilitation is justice. This model is justice. But what is justice? Everybody is going to have a different answer for that and very few of us will completely agree. I wish everybody could get their form of justice, but that’s simply not going to happen.
The recidivism rates in the video, are wrong. For the US, 60% of offenders return to prison, within 2 years. For Norway, 20% return... ever! The reason why it would not work as good in the US, is because those released in Norway, are socially protected, from being homeless. They don't have to return to criminality, to get food or a place to live.
Humans adapt to their environment. If you create a hard environment, they will become hard. Create a soft environment, they will become soft. The key is ensuring they will adapt and not abuse it. Norwegian prison guards are highly trained and can spot trickery / lying. And only those who have shown good behavior can go to these types of prisons. But also their regular prisons are still designed so that there is not aggression about a lack of resources or bad living environments.
I feel the inmates need to be rewarded for good behavior and like in life earn their way....however not so much in the beginning....the first part of their prison time should be hard but fair based on the situation but give the opportunity to earn that type of living and classes as time goes by
The cultures are different and they dont have gangs in Norway. Californis is NOT reporting the danger that Correction Offficers are being put in. A female CO was raped for 5 hours, Female CO's are sexually assaulted constantly, a CO's neck was broken, etc, etc. The inmates are at risk too. 6 inmates were murdered in 6 weeks when the Norway program was enacted in CA.
@@christineribone9351 are you kidding me? My point was if people in prison in the US wasn't treated like animals maybe they'd act more like human beings?
We *can* create a society that will grant us revenge if/when something bad happens to a loved one. Or we can create a society where it's highly unlikely anything bad will happen to any of our loved ones. We can't have both, but it *is* and must be an informed choice made by the voters. Not by the victims, not by their loved ones, and least of all by populist politicians preying on irrational fear.
So it's more expensive. Norway's recidivism rate is 20%. Prison in America is known as Crime U. Nobody rehabilitates or reintegrates you. You just go back to being a criminal -- and probably a more violent one. Not shockingly, our recidivism rate is 66%. Our correctional officers experience more PTSD, anxiety, young deaths, and suicides than any other population in our nation. They're only trained on average 6-9 weeks and most of that is hand-to-hand combat. They are very likely to experience violence from an inmate. Norway's correctional officers are trained for 2-3 years, and very little of that is defense training. It's more like psychology, ethics, social work. They treat the inmates as humans on the same level as them and the inmates, in return, treat them with respect. There has been no violence at Halden since it opened. And due to all these changes that make it more expensive and how it so positively affects the correctional officers and especially the recidivism rates, would it not be worth it to you? (Maybe you're okay with putting people in a box with basically no human rights who work for pennies -- $0.02/hour at Angola in. Louisiana! -- just so you can call it justice. But it isn't just.)
3:33 That's not a conservative politician. That's a "progress party" politican. They're far right populists. He's to the conservatives what Trump or the tea party is to the Republicans, except in a completely different political party.
Also, the living standard here is pretty high, and there is good sosial support. We don't have lots of homeless people so therefore people don't commit crimes to get a roof over their heads. I guess it would become a problem where alot of people are homeless
I think it depends on the crimes of the person involved. If the crime is of an extremely serious nature like rape, murder, child molestation, drug trafficking, or kidnapping they should not be allowed to be in a prison like this. There should also be serious considerations to letting someone who has committed a crime like that back out into society.
If your theory is that the death penalty, life sentences and harsh conditions in prison should act as a deterrent to criminals, the United States should be the country in the civilized world with the least crime. You have the MOST! Many of you are running the same theory about guns too. The more guns, the safer is the country. BUT you have by far the most inmates in the world per capita and you have by far the most gun-related deaths in the civilized world per capita. And no country in the world, civilized or third world, even comes CLOSE when it comes to mass shootings and school shootings. Your prison system does not work at all, on the contrary it creates more and worse criminals. You already have the death penalty, you have life sentences, you have barbarically harsh conditions in the prisons, you have solitary confinement. Nevertheless, there are more and more inmates in US prisons. Why? Profit-driven private prisons with government contracts that GUARANTEE 90%, sometimes 100%, occupancy contribute to full prisons that are only pure holding facilities with no possibility of rehabilitation because costs must be kept to a minimum and profits must be maximized. If they can make $100,000 on a prisoner serving 10 years for 5 grams of marijuana, that's what they'll do. Of course, only if it's a minority! Which naturally means that you do not WANT to rehabilitate someone because it is not profitable for the owners and shareholders. Just like McDonalds, your prisons depend on repeat customers! The problem for the United States lies elsewhere than in the justice system itself, though. Your society is steeped in systemic racism, poor access to health care and education, a society that offers no opportunities to those who don't already have money or connections. Ordinary workers have almost no rights, the wages are not livable, health insurance costs too much for most, college and university tuitions are something many can only dream of being able to afford. Those who take out student loans for higher education start their working life with a debt that here in Norway we only get when we borrow money to buy a home. The extreme difference between rich and poor is something you only see in corrupt third world countries outside the US. You don't have a system that catches and help those who fall outside, which results in you having the largest homeless community in the western world. You have created a society that almost demands crime. Not because it is an easy or extremely profitable solution, but because in many cases it is the ONLY solution for survival. As a result of these things and more, life expectancy in the United States is the lowest in the Western world and continues to decline. In the Mississippi Delta, it is 72 years, 12 years lower than here in Norway. The most common cause of death among children and young people is weapons!!! The legal system in Norway (and the vast majority of other western countries) does not take into account the individual wishes of victims and victims' families, or other individuals in society when punishments are handed out. We do what is PROVEN to work and is for the good of society as a whole, even if some will always think it is too lenient. And here's something to think about for you ultra-capitalists; It also pays off financially. Instead of releasing even more hardened criminals who cost society large sums, we release rehabilitated, educated, drug-free new taxpayers who no longer burden the justice system. You love to call yourselves "The Greatest Nation in the World" but in reality you are a third world country, only with lots of money. Your worship of the almighty dollar guarantees you a society where no one cares about others, of which your failing prison system is a very good example.
@@LobotomizeCommies10 The hallmark of an ignorant person is someone who cannot be bothered to obtain facts and knowledge and instead makes up his own worldview based on emotions and unsubstantiated claims.
@@LobotomizeCommies10 You wouldn't know what socialism is if it bit you in the a$$. I could be wrong but I assume you are a US citizen! If I am wrong, I apologize for the offense.
@@Valfodr_jr Just because I am a US citizen doesn’t mean that I am uninformed or scared about something I don’t even know. Is there something wrong with being American? If so, say whatever you want. In the eyes of the UA-cam moderators it’s not like you’re talking shit about say blacks, or Jews, or women so you won’t have to worry about getting suspended.
Plese lock me in. I'm free, but I pay rent, incone tax, child maitenance, bills. I work with asbestos and I would like to learn new skills for nothing.
LIKE a college? It IS a college, and a whole lot better one than some if not most of the universities here in the US. Halden looks amaze-balls! The people there seem nice and friendly too. I like the prison governor.
Ask yourself if they are "only murderers" why are they not killing eachother in this kind of prison but in the US they do and continue to do crime if released.. You can't bring the dead back but you can prevent more meaningless death. And even if they have a "hotel" they still can't go wherever they please. Covid showed us all how "nice it is" to be in the lockdown and how it affects the mental state and health. Even if it is not horrific it is still type of life I would not choose to have.
It is hars to compare costs cross borders. For example a large cost will be education of inmates, but they would also get this outside the prison incl college) is free in the Nordic countries. Long term costs are actually quickly less than the cost of US as only 20% is reoccurring cost where US 34000 per inmate, you have 60% reoccuring cost. And you have 17000 inmates vs 1 mill in the US. So hard to compare like for like. What if we add all the cost to society of the crimes on top - would that change the balance?
I know how come these Norway Guards are so chilled and have friendly conversations with the Inmates because they get paid more then any of the Guards in the US Prison Systems!
well they have a long education here, and in the US it seems you only need like a couple weeks of training, here it's 3 years. You can't just come off the streets and work in a prison, you need a full education.
Yes, you have a good point, but I live in Norway and have been in prison and haven't been back since I'm almost 50 years old. There is a very good standard of living in Norway so I don't think the tax payers think about it, I personally think it's sad and see how many American prisons are terrible, maybe that's why 70% commit new criminal acts and only 20% in Norway.
If they come out of prison and they don't commit any more crime after they release Norwegian prison can prevent that that's way better than the committing a crime like 3 years after they get released and go back
@@cosinthenews maybe you should talk to the victims and see how they feel about it so you would rather have justice for the victim than try to turn the criminal to a good neighbor cuz they eventually get out would you rather have Good neighbor then to treated as animals while they're in prison or treat them as human beings if you treat them like animals while they're in prison they'll just become animals when they get out and that's not good for society as a whole that will keep on the receivism rate going up
@@cosinthenews if you treat a prisoner like an animal in prison when he gets out become an animal when he gets out and there'll be just more victims but if you treat him as a human being and do what those security officers do come be like a social worker and interact with the inmate and there would be less violence between a security officer and inmate I bet a lot of your prisons that you were in charge of there were a lot of violence between a security office and a inmate
@@sakuraaishi246 Yes there was violence between us officers and the inmates but there was much more violence between the inmates. We spent most of our time stopping them from attacking each other. An inmate's biggest problem is another inmate, not the officers. But I hear your point. However, I try to put myself in the shoes of the victims. I can honestly say I would want the person that hurt me or my family to be punished and I don't consider this type of living punishment. But maybe I'm part of the problem.If you or a family member were the victim of a violent crime would you want the person who did it living in this type of environment? I also think the victim should have a voice concerning what happens to the inmate.
@@cosinthenews I'm not a victim so I can't synthesize with them but I also believe that the prisoner should only have their freedom taken away when they go to prison and not be treated like an animal because if you treat them like an animal well they're there they'll just come out as an animal and there'll be more victims see you rather have get revenge for the victim that they did before and not save everyone else from become being a victim in the future what in your opinion what is better getting revenge on the prisoner for their victim or making them better that they can re-enter society and not commit any crimes what would be the best solution to stop bet most people would rather them re-enter society and not comment any more crimes then people get revenge
I would say there could be a balance. Maybe the start of the sentence is on punishment. This is like a normal prison. Then, it becomes rehabilitation, like the Halden prison.
@@The_Tortoise_and_the_HareI am not an expert but I am sympathetic to both arguments. One that there should be punishments for crimes, and that there should be rehabilitation. It also follows the concept of “break them down then build them up”.
Its impossible to compare US vs Norway. We are a high cost country, so the cost of housing the inmate reflects this. Yes, it is expensive, but if the person comes out as a participating part of our society then it will be repayed through taxes. I see you ask about the death penalty, and what to do with the hardened criminalt. We do not have Crips or the like here, not to the scale you have in the US (we have some gangs, but nothing like what you have on your side of the pond) In the US, for a lot of people, the only "security" found is with a gang. The only way they can support their loved ones is through crime. Here we have supportsystems that helps with housing, food and ameneties (its not perfect, but it does a world of good). I do not think our way of handling criminals could work in the US as the US is now. Too many people living in poverty, on the streets etc. There would have to be an immense change to the living standards and pay situation to change to a world where people do not feel they have to become criminals to survive. When it comes to the monster behind July 22, killing 77 people including children: He will probably never be in a prison situation as the one in Halden (most of our prisons is less free than this one). He was sentenced to our harshest punishment: 21 years (with secure). It means that when the time gets closer to his release, an evaluation is done. If he's not deemed fit for society, his sentence is extended for 7 years. And so it goes. No one here believes he will ever be free again. And he is secluded/isolated, as those few hardened criminals we have has placed a price on his head. One thing we try to do is to find out WHY things went as they did. How did the person get to the state of mentality to do the acts of crime. And we try to find ways to make sure people are treated well enough so they don't end up there. We can't avoid it all, but I do believe that having basic needs covered helps us avoid crime on a large scale
The United States needs to take notes, because this is rehabilitation. The US is all about the money and could care less about reforming inmates. The cruel way the inmates live in the prison and are treated like animals and the inhumane way the prisons in the US look inside is ridiculous using the taxpayers dollars to house inmates in such a poor condition. That’s not giving victims justice that’s just using money improperly. How can a person be reformed in such harsh circumstances. US take a long look at the reality of it all and be honest this is just money to you, it’s not humane what you call punishment of a crime it’s a trifling shame and just wrong.
I have a college debt I'll never be able to pay, and Ive never commited a crime. We are the people that should receive support first. Theyre rewarding the bad people instead of the good people.
What benefit is it to the victim if the offender comes out of prison more violent, more angry and even less able to control their emotions because they have spent years being controlled rather than being taught how to take responsibility, make positive choices, deal with negative emotions more positively and how to live in society. What comfort when that prisoner is released only to commit another crime and end up back in prison? It is counter intuitive to do what Norway is doing, and it feels all wrong. But the evidence is there. It works. It has the lowest murder rate in the western world. It has a 20% recidivism rate, violence within the prison is low, prisoners are more prepared for the outside world snd able to lead a normal life. Surely got these things alone it is worth consideration?
Norway's recidivism rate is about 20% within 5 years. That's because they focus on rehabilitation and reintegration into society. They treat the prisoners like humans. Their freedom is taken away, but their human rights are not. America's recidivism rate is about 50% in the first year and 66% within three years. We don't really focus on rehabilitation or reintegration, so prisoners are suddenly in the real world, and all they know is their previous life of crime. (And prison is known as Crime U for a reason... no better place to learn how to become a better criminal!) We treat prison as a place for punishment, not a place to better yourself and change your ways. It's a place for punishment for THIS crime. The way you're treated in prison shouldn't be the punishment. You should have all of your rights in prison. You should be treated like a human being with dignity and respect. The punishment should be your freedom taken away. Not being treated like an animal. We treat prisoners here with no humanity, and so it's not surprising that prisons are violent, guards are attacked, and people try to escape. The rates of PTSD, early deaths, and deaths by suicide are higher in correctional officers in the US than in any other population in America. The model in Norway trains the correctional officers to work with the prisoners. I have watched a few documentaries on Halden. It is a MAXIMUM SECURITY PRISON, but there has not been any documented violence (prisoner on prisoner OR prisoner on guard) since its opening. No inmate has attempted to escape. And the guards there are happy. Instead of the 6-9 weeks average training an American correctional officer has, a Norwegian correctional officer has 2-3 YEARS of training, and only a TINY portion of that is self-defense. It's also ethics, psychology, etc. The longest sentence you can get in Norway was 21 years -- it has now been changed to 30, I believe. But if you serve all of those years and a judge finds that you are not safe to re-enter society because you will harm others (or they will harm you), they will add another five years on. And they can and will do this indefinitely for people who cannot be rehabilitated, like mass murderers. (And I only know of one.) Learning this fact after JUST watching a documentary about American correctional officers being against sentences of life without parole unless it's literally the ONLY thing to do (and how they feel how sentencing has gotten extremely out of hand) has really opened my eyes about how maybe America isn't doing that right, either. I don't know the answer about sentencing, having never worked in a prison, law enforcement, or in the legal system, but it's something I want to learn more about. Also, why do you think a prison SHOULDN'T be humane? It scares me to know people think like that.
This system works the best statistically The system should be mainly about Rehabilitation, not only and mainly about punishment Taking away someones freedoom is the punishment Yes the families of victims may not like it, but emotions shouldnt get in the way of what seems to work the best Yes you cant fix victims but you can prevent future victims which I think is the most important part after prevent victims in general Is it justice to "avenge" one victim just for there to be another one Or is it justice to prevent any futur3 victims and victims in general
The UN Committee against Torture critical of Norway’s use of isolation . . . Major concern about the use of isolation The UN Committee against Torture highlighted several problematic circumstances relating to the use of isolation in Norway. The committee was concerned about long-term isolation in prisons and the increase in the number of registered administrative decisions on isolation, often on grounds of circumstances relating to the prison premises or staffing. The committee was also concerned that practices which constituted de facto isolation were not registered as individual decisions that could be appealed. The committee pointed out that legal requirements for the use of isolation were not sufficiently precise, and that ambiguous requirements for making a decision on isolation may lead to measures that amount to violations of the UN Convention against Torture. The expert committee also expressed concern that Norwegian legislation does not stipulate a maximum limit for how long an inmate may be held in isolation. This was also problematised by the UN Human Rights Committee in April 2018, which recommended that an absolute time limit be set in accordance with international standards.
a person should be in jail until he is cured of his aggression, but that takes work, he needs to become a different person, if he can't be re-educated he should be in isolation. For example, if a person steals, we conduct a test so that he does not know it, we leave someone else's food in front of him and watch through cameras, if he stole someone else's food, then he is still a thief and will continue to sit in jail. but you cannot tell him that it was a test. Just time in prison won't make a man better, you have to educate, re-educate, train him.
You can't tell a person how many years they're going to be in prison, they need to be told you're going to sit there until you're safe for others and let them figure out how to become that.
Just to help people understand this abit better. That shown prison is in the 1% that old rusty place i spent a month in was a broken down facility. And how people get treated while in prison kinda depends on how the inmates perfrom in the jail if they dangerous they get treated as such. behaving like a wild animal and the officers will treat you as such. The jail system is for rehabilitation for people to get back into community as they dont want wild animals back, they want nice behaving humans back.
Is the Norwegian prison system to soft? Compared to the USA, I definitely believe so. Does it work? yes? Norway had 70/80 percent recidivism rate in the late 80’s and 90’s before they changed philosophy in working with inmates. The officers would also work as social workers and acts as role models. The two major differences in approaches towards the inmates lies in the name. You have Criminal justice. We have Kriminalsomsorgen which literally means Criminal care. The Norwegian goal is not revenge, but to rehabilitate. And having the freedom taken away from you is definitely a punishment. It helps a bit that the facility looks nice, but overall, it sucks being there 24/7, never see the outside, enjoy the sun, no cell phone and limited contact with family and friends. So, some of the facilities are simply just there, so you don’t go insane and commit suicide. And also, to make work life better for the officers. Nobody would like to work in a place that looks terrible. It’s depressing. Halden is a new prison that doesn’t look like any other Norwegian prison. It’s not possible to build old prisons with grid. that’s why it looks like a campus dorm. And what you see in the video are just highlights. The life there is quite boring. The prisoners can’t just go to the music room whenever they want (if they have access). Halden prison consists of many small departments. The prisoners have different access to the facility. Some prisoners can be trusted to cook their own food with sharp knives, other not. The prison officers don’t always have time to play chess with an inmate or interact in another way. That depends on the staffing. If I was the victim of a gruesome crime, not punishment would satisfy me. I would probably want death penalty or prison for life. And seeing their life In Halden prison… I’d be pissed. But that’s my feeling. The prison officers can’t deal with peoples feeling. They’re not the department of emotional replies. I would have to trust them doing their job right, so the perpetrator does make new victims when he is released.
I live in Norway and my best friend was murdered. I hate the man who did that too her. But for me the important thing is that he was locked up away from the rest of us. I didn't want him to be abused, R worded or anything like that. That would not change anything other then him becoming angry and more damaged. He is back out and I would be more scared of him if he came out after being treated bad. When he was on the inside there where qualified people who spent alot of time with him that evaluated if he was safe to be let out. Personally I would like him to stay in longer then he did, but that's it.
I feel you on that but you also have to realize what if you or your loved ones go to prison. I think you would choose halden. It's punishment enough to keep you from traveling beyond those walls. I'm an American and I agree with Norway prison system. God bless them
It costs more money when 60% return to prison in the USA than in Norway. Calculate how much the US spends on everyone who goes back to prison. Norway does some fantastic rehab etc. and 80% of criminals don't do it again. they get jobs and take care of themselves. Then society is safer. The USA murders or does something criminal again and exposes other human beings to violence again and again, but in Norway, or in Scandinavia, the violence becomes less and less
It's the quality of life and actually care about helping people... maybe your just use to punishment mentality...it about reform prisoners to be better and do better
I highly doubt there will ever be a real and clear answer to this I mean if someone killed my loved one it’s easy for me to think and say I want them to suffer as much as possible in hell but if it was me being the inmate in a prison it’s easy for me to think and say I need to live this way in Norway so I could still be happy and healthy so that’s the dilemma there and on a side note I will say I think the main focus should be making places in the free world like the Norway prisons I mean why can’t the free world be like this that’s what should be the case on a side note
I think its not soft. Its the best. Justice isn't about revenge. The Norwegians used their knowledge to figure out whats the best for their country. They trust themselves and their country. corruption is non-existence and the government tries to provide for its people what they need. There are factors that push certain people to commit crimes and these factors aren't available in Norway. People are happy with their country and the lives they lead. They have good education system, the environment is perfect for the people and there is no oppression and abuse of power. So they came up the white paper to reprogram the few people who got deviated from the normal way of life. When inmates get out of prison, they feel they are different people and they are less likely to do bad things. They have skills and their rights are protected. In other countries inmates are treated like Animals. When they get out they have nothing to their name and they have no rights. They feel isolated and the only way to get back on their feet is to return to the criminal life. In Saudi Arabia they sentence people for 16 years for a post on social media.
The police have already taken the criminal, and come to trial, it's not the prison's decision to treat people like monkeys like in the US, Scandiva teaches these people to get an education, get a job, think like a normal person, in the US they are released, then again do they commit crimes, because your government doesn't help people, as each person going in and out of prison costs twice as much as it costs in Norway, because they don't come back. we only have a few vagrants, than in the USA there are millions of vagrants, and once again the government could have helped these people and cleaned all the streets in the USA, just like we in Scandinavia do, And one day these people will go out into the open, and then they can become your neighbors move into your area tec. then you want a normal person with a job, etc. as your neighbor, not a criminal person who will continue to be a criminal, do you want an orderly neighbor or a criminal neighbor? and therefore we give them training to become something when they get out and continue to live normally and you have already started in Atlanta to remodel a prison similar to Norway's it's called little skadinave, do you call it, several crime wardens went there for a visit, went home to the usa and managed to make a prison with contact with staff, play with them games, take care of them, etc., you can look it up on youtube (little skadinave )
Maybe it feels like heaven for a couple of hours. Then reality sinks in ,and you realize that you'll not see your family again for a really long time, and the people you have to socialize with are murders and pedophiles. You're being watched and being told what to do all the time. It's not a summer camp and you can leave the place.
You can sure say that again sort of like going on vacation and not wanting to leave since the Norwegian Guards are very Compassionate and chilled with the Inmates there and believe me the Norwegian Women Guards are very Compassionate and cute also!
@@cosinthenews yeah they do. We have been given warnings from human rights in geneva. regards to isolation. And the once that's to fucked up to be released. They live in isolation Much of the time. But that's nothing new to you guys. You torture prisoners with that openly, no shame given.
How do the victims feel about this accommodating? Well that's not a prison problem. We simply cant make a prison based on feelings for the victims. Helping the victims is another department, another persons job The CO's should be able to put his feelings aside and help the offenders become better citizens.
If your going to blame CO’s for the behavior of criminals why not blame the school teachers who were responsible for teaching the criminal or better yet why not blame the parents. Better still, why not hold the individual responsible for his or her own actions. As CO’s we refuse to accept the blame for the failure of others.
I don't see why I should blame the CO's or teachers for the behaviour of criminals. We're all responsible for our own actions. All I am saying is that the correction officers job should ideally ( I know that your focus is different than scandinavians) be focusing on helping the inmates become better neighbours. That also includes learning to take responsible for his/her own actions, so there will be no future victims. But I don't blame the Correction officers, if does not work. Not everybody can be fixed, but it should be a part of the prison filosophy. You're a good guy, i bet you would thrive in a more scandinavian based systeme.
Jesus said, "Love one another as I have loved you". Jesus was not about revenge dressed up as justice. He exemplified forgiveness, human care, and healing one another.
well somebody people just don't know much about Jesus do they Jesus said vengeance is mine thee Oppressors accusers prosecutors mishandling scripture for enslavement they are gonna get what they dish out one day I wish I could watch how I long to see people who think punishment for humans is righteous playing GODs roll on earth I can't say that I really wanna say no freedom of speech
You got that right that the Norway Prison Women Guards are very hot and bet you they are single and probably on the chat rooms or any social media to get a American Boyfriend to get married to better then in there own country of Norway!
Norway is one of the safest, happiest, healthiest countries in the world…the US is far far from it. The US prison system so obviously does not work. Norway’s definitely doing something right.
Norway has problems as well: The UN Committee against Torture critical of Norway’s use of isolation . . . Major concern about the use of isolation The UN Committee against Torture highlighted several problematic circumstances relating to the use of isolation in Norway. The committee was concerned about long-term isolation in prisons and the increase in the number of registered administrative decisions on isolation, often on grounds of circumstances relating to the prison premises or staffing. The committee was also concerned that practices which constituted de facto isolation were not registered as individual decisions that could be appealed. The committee pointed out that legal requirements for the use of isolation were not sufficiently precise, and that ambiguous requirements for making a decision on isolation may lead to measures that amount to violations of the UN Convention against Torture. The expert committee also expressed concern that Norwegian legislation does not stipulate a maximum limit for how long an inmate may be held in isolation. This was also problematised by the UN Human Rights Committee in April 2018, which recommended that an absolute time limit be set in accordance with international standards. . . .
Shortcomings in prison mental healthcare Concern was also expressed about inadequate mental health follow-up in prison. The committee referred to a particularly high rate of mental illnesses among inmates in Norwegian prisons, and to the fact that a severe lack of beds in the mental healthcare service meant that inmates were placed in isolation in prison rather than being offered healthcare. The committee expressed serious concern about reports of such inadequate medical follow-up of inmates with symptoms of severe mental health illnesses. The committee recommended that the authorities › abolish the use of isolation on inmates with serious mental health conditions › implement measures to ensure full access to adequate mental health care for inmates, both in prison and in the mental healthcare services The UN Human Rights Committee made similar recommendations to the Norwegian authorities in its concluding observations.4 Coercive measures still widely used in the mental healthcare services The UN Committee against Torture also raised several problematic issues relating to the mental healthcare services. The extent of the use of coercive measures and other means of force gave particular cause for concern. It was pointed out that forced medication constituted a risk of lasting and irreversible harm. The committee also criticised the lack of attempts at using less invasive measures before forced treatment was initiated, and that the authorities lacked an overview and control when electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) was administered without consent. The committee recommended a number of measures, including that the authorities › ensure that the patients’ dignity is preserved and that attempts at eliminating unlawful use of force be continued, including by considering further legislative amendments › establish efficient procedural safeguards for the patients, including by ensuring effective complaint mechanisms › ensure clear and detailed rules for the use of coercive measures, including restraint beds, with a view to achieving a significant reduction in both scope and duration › consider eliminating forced treatment with intrusive and irreversible effects, such as ECT › ensure reparation and rehabilitation for persons subjected to arbitrary psychiatric treatment against their will, without procedural safeguards and independent supervision The UN Human Rights Committee also expressed concern about the use of force in the mental healthcare services in its observations regarding Norway.
you think like an American based on American values and living conditions. Punishment and revenge, gross abuse and long sentences do not make better people. in Norway, we don't have homeless people who have to commit criminal offenses in order to go to 🎉 prison in the winter. We have free health care, free education up to the highest degree. we have a welfare society where people get help and are looked after. it is surely difficult for you to understand that this should be the normal, not the American system. R
well you didn't listen, he'll never get out because they'll just keep extending his sentence. I live here, I know, that man is never getting out of prison, but we have these systems in place so that other people with less severe crimes don't suffer as much.
Damn that would suck to die in Norway knowing the suspect/s can live like that in Prison 😂. Norway bein a lil bi*** there. California is trying to do this to the prison system. Good luck with that.
Been to this prison, wrongly accused 4 mudrden (they gave me 3000 dollars after 30 days). Now, because i have fought 4 a living all my life, yet rich family (richest country, fuck Swittserland), all the goods. I have been in nine prisons. No women or children where involved. Yes the Norwegian prison system works. Norwegian police/courts are smart that way. Cause it works, and yes i did have sex with one of the female guards there. Back 2 the point,- Police do not waste time if there are no "civilians" in the game. So . . . It works. I am clean!
Heard about this here they are sort of like England a little bit to soft on trouble makers like these Norwegian Guards are and Norway and England are just money hungry people there!
"is it too soft?" well, their recidivism rate is less than a third of ours, so i think they're doing something right here.
I bet if they were borded next to Mexico then their recidivism rate wouldnt be that high. The amount of money ppl can make selling drugs is very tempting no matter what.
I was like, “they have a f**king garden to get their vegetables from!!?”😂😂😂. The stark difference- I was rofl. But you’re right- only 1 in reoffend there. Here (US)- they’re treated like, no worse than animals. No wonder it’s just inmates who now learn not to get caught on their next crime. I know it’s not nearly the same thing, but I only got sober because the 5th time I was in treatment, they were so nice and respectful. I didn’t have to worry about abuse from counselors and completely focused on treatment and once withdrawal went away, I actually liked my time there.
But I’m aware, the families of victims want them to suffer, which I totally understand.
To me, it’s a better society there and the goal is for them not to harm anyone else. prison is reform there, not watching your ass in the shower as your goal.
6:11
Most of Norway doesn't have a homeless population at all.
We *do* have beggars.
And there are homeless people in the capital.
Many of them either non-citizens who don't have rights in our welfare system yet or people who are on drugs or they're people who just can't deal with the official system for whatever reason (for instance due to mental health issues).
They just can't handle the application processes and the fixed payments of rent (even with help and money paid out to cover the cost).
There *are* systems available to help all of these people, but it's hard to get everything working well enough to keep *everyone* off the streets.
The question is: What is best for society. Does one victims hatred and need for revenge benefit it all?
I live in Norway and my best friend was murdered when she was 15. I really do hate the man. But I didn't want him to be abused in prison. I wanted him away from the rest of us. And my wish is that he comes out a better person so he never does that to anyone else. Revenge would not help bring her back. It can be easy to think about revenge, but if the loved ones of a victim really think about it, does revenge really help anything...
@karriqueen yes. Yes it does.
@@karriqueenAh, sorry for your loss.
Many people miss the fact that the standard of living is suposed to be like on the outside. Norway has one of the highest standard of living in the world so for Norwegians what you see there is not that great. What may also schook you is that they still have the right to vote as prisoners, politicans visit and campagning inside the prision. When you have spend your time your debt to the country is payed and you have the right to at least minimum living standard ( a home, free healtcare, liveable pension an so on ). In US you brag about your freedom but I think a famouse song describe your freedom best " Freedom is just another word for nothing more to lose". I dont know about an animal more scary then a "Free" man. About the victims family: One of the fathers who lost his son at the terrorist attack sayed that he did not want to follow the terrorist down the less developed life. After the terrorist attack Norways respons was more freedom, not limiting Norwegians freedom.
That is a commendable sentiment. I wish our country had such a high standard of living. I can understand why Norway has such a different justice system. Norway's population is les than 6 million and gives citizenship to about 60,000 each year. In the US the population is over 360 million and we have cities with populations well over 6 million. We also have a very liberal immigration policy. Millions of people from all over the world migrate to the US legally and illegally every year. We have over 11 million undocumented immigrants here. We will get over 1 million illegal immigrants this year alone. We give legal citizenship to over 1 million each year. We have many different cultures so it is difficult to control people that have different languages, values, cultures and different standards of justice, so we have more crime. Also a large portion of our taxes go towards providing benefits, security and protection for other countries. We would have to change a lot of policies to afford to have a prison system like Norway.
@@cosinthenews I know that it is a long way to go and most likely not for a hundered years. It may be possibel in the smaller states if permitted and wanted. I also know that as long as you dont give them a chance when they get out you newer will get the crime down. A man who can not get a job and a place to live will do what he have to do.
In Norway we don’t have homelessness. If we do they just won’t take the help handed to them.
Michael Moore has a video on Norway’s prison where he talks to a father of a victim at the 22.July shooting.
thank you for the info. I will watch the Michael Moore video. I am interested in how the father feels about subject.
They still need to be punish rich or not
Going to Norway in summer for Beyond the Gates Festival in Bergen btw is my first trip out the country
@@kimlibrisk9968 Why? Does it change the past? Or is it better to prevent it from happen again?
Micheal Moore talked to one guy. That's propaganda. Talk to all the victims families. That's reporting.
4:35
Making the convict suffer isn't justice for the victim.
It doesn't bring their loved ones back.
And quite frankly in the US "the victims" are being used to justify harsher punishments, but the reality is that they often *don't* want the family of the criminals or even the criminal themselves to suffer like they have.
And furthermore, is it justice to let out a broken person that'll create more victims?
In my opinion it would feel like a punch in the face to know that the guy who killed my sister is now chilling his ass off in a luxurious, beautiful and comfortable "prison".
I could also imagine this would encourage people to do crimes because they won't fear the consequences.
As I said this is just my opinion but I've always liked the "eye for an eye" concept and this feels more like "eye for a vacation".
@@KompetenteEnte Making prisoners suffer creates more, not less crime.
People don't abstain from comitting crime no matter how harsh the punishment is.
And the police and justice system can never put an end to crime.
Things like the welfare system, the education system and a number of other systems in society has far more impact on crime then police officers and the justice system.
Police officers are more there to deal with the issue there and then and help out when someone needs a timeout from society in order to not harm society, not as a punishment, just in order to ensure that they actually learn what they need to learn without harming others.
@@KompetenteEnte
The flaw in your argument lies in the final point. We do not desire a society in which individuals are virtuous solely out of fear for the repercussions of their actions. Rather, we aspire to a society where people act morally because they derive pleasure from doing so. Nothing transforms a person's character more effectively than encountering kindness in response to negativity. Much needs to be reformed before America can recover from its uncompromising stance toward each and every individual. There is a profound issue afflicting America. One cannot even drive on the road without apprehension of encountering law enforcement, even when not engaged in any wrongdoing. The laws and regulations empower the police to stop any vehicle on the road. Even in cases where there is no legal basis for such actions provocations can easily make one up. To a certain extent, America has already evolved into a police state. The populace lives in a constant state of fear and perpetual anger.
@@UA-cam_Stole_My_Handle_Too it seems you guys are taking this prison issue and using it to criticize American society as a whole. However it’s very funny because you are probably using an iPhone which is an American company Google / UA-cam which is an American company. You are probably wearing Nikes which is an American company and you are using the Internet which is largely and American creation. You all have Twitter accounts which is also American. So keep that in mine. Our society has done more for the world in the last 200 years than many countries that have existed for centuries. I can’t name one thing that Norway has produced. Educate me.
@@cosinthenews There are tons of good things that come from America, but American products and the American justice system are two entirely different things. When people are incarcerated they have to adjust to the new environment and become like the people they are with to survive. When they are released, they still have the same criminal mindset as they did in prison. Since they are not taught new skills and don't get any help, they fall back on crime because they're good at it. As a result, there is more crimes, more inmates, and more victims. Like the guy said, "If you treat a human like a human, you get a human. If you treat a human like an animal, you get an animal."
They are not living in luxury, this is just the average level of living standard in Norway. Usa or other less developed are corrupt and segregated and the disinvestment on society is reflected on the quality of public institutions (includes prisons). And to those that think we are not being "hard" enough on prisoners through material depravity is sort of primitive and conservative thinking.
One thing I hoped you'd ask is whether the American Correctional Officers deserve better pay, less stress, lower self-harm rates, and pleasant work environment. I don't think they receive any of that at the moment, while the Scandinavian system offers them exactly that. Norway introduced those reforms after 3 correctional officers were murdered in their American-style prisons in the early 90s. They rethinked the entire system and so far it works.
From an ex prison nurse. We need to focus on retaining good officers. Pay them what they're worth. Recruit and retain quality staff. Many are natural mentors and well respected by their peers as well as inmates. For those inmates who are making good choices, allow more privileges. For those inmates who don't, don't. Give the officers the tools and training to do their jobs including de-escalation training. What all else fails and they have to go hands on, stop nitpicking the hell out of them. Some inmates simply refuse any help. That's their choice and God bless the officers who have to deal with them.
So you're a nurse. Meaning you have a good education.
In Norway, prison guards have 3 years of education. Most of it, focuses on being a social worker, and that is the same, if they get work, in the prison in the video, or a more traditional one.
In the US, anyone can become a prison guard, it seems, with "weeks of training". No skills required.
The victim’s feelings doesn’t really come into the equation. Performing revenge on behalf of victims is not a responsibility for the authorities. Victims are compensated in other ways.
It's not revenge so much as justice. The victim does have a voice. In the US the victim and their family are allowed to make "victim impact statements" to express to the court what they feel should be done and the court takes that into consideration.
@@cosinthenews I see. I am no expert, and have little or no experience in this. However, I feel making the everyday environment for inmates worse than necessary is more of a revenge thing than justice.
@Correctional Officers in the News well it should not be revenge, the inmate should be punished and rehabilitated
@@cosinthenews If you do not see that your system is based solely on two things, revenge and profit, then there is something wrong with your view of punishment, justice and rehabilitation. Your system has for decades been classified as torture and a violation of human rights by the UN, but you people don't seem to care about that at all.
@@cosinthenews Takeing their freedom is the revenge and justice. But Americans seem to have the urge for makeing the punishment as crual as posible. Which results in inmates that are let free, are not rebilitated, they have lost all thrust in sociaty and now maybe THEY want revenge. Does that sound like a healthy sociaty to you ?
I started laughing uncontrollably at first because treating people like human beings in prison was such a ridiculous thing for me to hear-/ like a joke. Then I watched this seriously and it’s like here in the US, we almost want people to spit on to make ourselves feel better about ourselves so let’s make sure these people come out with even more problems than when they went in to prison. Oh and abuse them while they’re in there.
Actually truly wanting then putting the resources into rehabilitation and treating people with dignity instead of depriving them of basic human rights does lower recidivism and homelessness - wow, go figure. I’m stating it sarcastically but we look at this here like “it’s not our problem.”😢😢
I watched this video & it’s really interesting and very very good video to watch. This is an example of how prison should be. This prison is more like a rehabilitation center and help inmates reflect on their crimes & it has programs here that can help themselves and do something to pay & help their victims.
Here in the US, it’s more like: they don’t have these types of resources in prison because, prison in the US makes the inmate more worse. There’s no rehab or programs that can help them learn and reflect. prison in the US is like you’re doing crime in the streets. If the prison system here has a similar system like Norway it can help inmates here have a 2nd chance to redeem themselves and help repent to their victims.
I agree with the documentary and it’s description of how prison should be a rehab to learn and reflect. Here in America, you’re seen like a less of a person.
Just because someone did a Robery, assault or anything illegal, doesn’t mean we see them as monsters. They’re lost or something bad has happened in their personal lives.
I haven’t been to Norway and I heard it’s really nice there. One Norwegian who watched this video, the country doesn’t have much homeless because they tend to assist them with resources. While in the US they left to rot in the street, some Americans complain about homeless people, well just and FYI it’s the government who inputs dumb laws and policies + they’re ones who’s making facilities/group homes that encourages them to do drugs.
This prison is a great example because prisoners in Norway can help repent to their victims who they did damages to them and I think Norway is the best example of 2nd & better opportunities.
Im from Norway and i both agree and disagree with this kind of prison system. Yes it do work but i do wish we had some more US style prisons for those that keep committing crimes. Yes first time offenders especially that have committed minor crimes that are enough to land them in prison do deserve a chance to turn their life around. But people that keep committing crimes time after times and just treats the prisons as a vacation, they no longer deserve to be treated like this cause they clearly don't learn from it.
but the video even showed that you hardly have anyone reoffending.
If you live in Norway you should already know that you don't get to these two places by default. You have to prove you can behave and Bastoy is probably near end of your prison sentence. You also have to remember that they're monitored. Mistakes? You will go back to closed prison..
The issue is ''Justice'' Isn't actually a thing, No matter how people talk about evil or good, in the end you will die and be forgotten in some way or another, To just give your life to emotion and anger and live thinking about ''revenge, justice, what is right for you'' If you just let go and accept, forgive and understand you will be ''free''
An animal who has their children hunted doesn't think about revenge, they move on and live another day and the cycle goes on, YOu're not some main character, If something happens to you, You don't gain anything by ''seeking justice in some self righteous way'' no matter how wronged you feel
In the United States, half the population lives in poverty. Is the political system in the USA fair? Poverty is the root of crime. The majority in the US don't understand that, I think. It is about cause and effect.
Yes, the system is not fair. But what do we do with people who commit crimes? We have to do something.
@@cosinthenews they can go to jail but the. Justice system should be focus on rehabitation instead of punishment
@@sakuraaishi246 What is your view on the death penalty? If a murderer is executed then he will not commit other crimes and will not ever be able to hurt anyone else. Is that a solution?
@@cosinthenews I don't agree with the death penalty in my opinion should be abolished our are justice system is pivotive eye for eye which I think is stupid the death
penalty should be the last resort in my opinion cuz everybody can be learn from their past mistakes is this social justice system focus helping the inmate instead of punishment them punishment just leads more revenge and revenge is not good
@@cosinthenews
I'm totally against the death penalty because it isn't solving anything. It isn't even stoping people from commiting crimes that are worth to get the death penalty for.
Look at Tookie Williams. I know that there are controversies about if he really changed or just played the reformed guy. But just imagine that he really became a great person that did his best to make the world a better place. Do you really want to put someone like that on the chair? Or should he have a chance to get out of prison after a reasonable time and make the world outside a better place?
You can still keep him in prison until he dies if he keeps to be a danger to society. Like the Nazi guy mentioned in the video. His max sentence is 21 years but he will never see the outside world again because after his 21 years he will spend the rest of his life in a prison-like mental facility if he dosn't change. And arend't the USA so adamant about being christian? The christian god says that killing people is a sin and one of the core principles of the christian believe is that you have to forgive peoples sins if they truly regret their sins. But you break these principles by killing people regardless of if they regret their sins and become great people. Dosn't sound christian to me.
A friend of mine killed someone in a bar fight and got 7.5 years in prison. There he learned how to solve problems without violence, he became a model inmate and was released after almost 5 years. Now he is a loving father of 3 kids and never commited any crime in the almost 20 years since he was released. In the USA he prob would have served 15 - 30 years and turned into a crazy animal in prison.
The person in the prison do not have their freedom to come and go as they wish or see their family and friends everyday. It is still a prison and still a punnishment. Question that should be asked is what kind of a person do we want to interact with or live on the same street with when they get out. The person in US who been treated like a animal and learned nothing else but hate and punnishment or the person who is getting help to find their way back to a life that is not about crime anymore. The fallback on crime is such a huge difference between US prisons and prisons around EU so i think that is telling more about what is the best way.
Also there do not have to be do or don't version. There is always a middle way. Things to change so that people who leave prison when they done their time will not fall back to crime again in the rating that US have now.
Also something that always blew my mind. In the US you can never vote again if you been convicted. But you can still be a president even if you are convicted. Why is that?
It is definitely a mixed bag. But in terms of price it may be 3 times more expensive than what the US has, but the US also has 5% of the worlds population and more than 20% of the worlds incarceration population.
Dam he killed a man it isn't like he committed tax fraud.
I would be interested in seeing what the officer turn over rate is.
Heck, the inmates live WAY better than the CO'S that manage them, by USA standards anyway. As a retired CO, I can say those conditions are very comfortable for the naughty folks.
Yeah, they live better for sure by our standards. I wonder would people in the US commit crimes just so they could go to prison if the conditions were like Norway's?
I just watched a documentary about Little Scandinavia project in SCI Chester, and the turn over rate at the Swedish prison they visited was 9% a year, and 6% of sick days used annually. Average age of a CO is 43, with 44% of all employees being female.
They also earn median national income, while google suggests US COs earn below median wage. It's not that the inmates are treated like kings in Scandinavia, it's that in the US prison system is massively underpaid - both COs and money spent on prison facilities.
@@cosinthenews If you think our prisoners are better off than your workers, that just says more about your society than it does about our prisons.
Most victims primarily want to save the next potential victims from suffering like they do.
Focussing on revenge is not a good way to deal with trauma and doesn't contribute much to the process of healing. It's a quick adrenaline rush, a cop-out, cheap and easy but with little lasting benefit to the victims. Makes for exciting Hollywood movies, but not healthy in real life.
To understand the Norwegian psyche you need to remove individualism from the equation. The idea is that you as correctional officers aren't there to punish anyone, the system does that job by keeping you locked in jail. The idea is to foster a better future. Also the investment is worth it because those who get released are educated and jump right in to the economical system paying back ten folds in taxes instead of reoffending causing damage and further expenditure. if you look at it this way USA pay way more each individual. Its basically quality over quantity. You dont want to create a system where everyone loses, we want to improve not get worse
Considering that Norawy has lower rates of violent crimes compared to America and Canada, it seems that the concept of their prison system is more effective. I would say that there needs to be a system that emphasizes more on accountability and rehabilitation instead of just a punishment for however long and just let them out without molding them into productive members of society.
The US has 360 million people. Norway has 5 million. You are really trying to compare apples and oranges here.
@@cosinthenews It has lower rates of violent crime PER CAPITA.
One of the biggest problems I see in the US and I speak from firsthand experience, is the punishment doesn’t always fit the crime. And of course I’m talking about the lengthy sentences for drugs (mainly for selling or manufacturing/delivering them). It’s not uncommon for sentences in multiple decades, 20 to 30 years, for selling hard drugs. And generally speaking, drug dealers aren’t pushing stuff on unwilling participants. Now before anyone slams me about addiction and once addicted people are helpless and all that, I get it. Some hard drugs are evil and will ruin a person. But still, to dole out 20/30/40 years for that compared to most homicides not getting that much time is ridiculous. Rapists and child molesters often get less time than a cocaine dealer!
Now on the other hand, when taking someone’s life maliciously then I do believe you should pay heavily. We’ve got a lot of sickos here that have committed the most brutal and disgusting murders rapes tortures etc and I have no compassion for them.
But overall our criminal justice system is flawed, disproportionate, and does nothing to try and rehabilitate those that just made a bad choice. There’s education programs, career training, and ministry programs in most prisons but when you over-house or overpopulate these places you end up mixing the worst offenders with those offenders who actually that bad, are often non voilent, and may have just been trying to make a living yet in an illegal way. When you mix everyone up like this it just fosters institutionalism and you just end up “teaching” that ok person more bad habits from their peers. I’ve literally seen it first hand. I’ve witnessed impressionable young kids (legal adults though) get swallowed up and turned into lifelong criminals that return time and again. The gangs and drugs are just as bad inside as they are outside the prison.
And don’t get me started on our for profit prison system in the some of US. There’s a reason we have the largest incarcerated population in the world! But yeah, it’s a tough call when it come to some of this. I see both sides. I personally lean towards the Norway model except for the most egregious cases and anything to do with molesting children of course! The Officer they interviewed made a really good point when he made the treating someone like an animal they’ll act like an animal comment and someone in the comments too made a good one that while the victims may not be served best, nothing is gonna bring back their loved ones??!???
"Justice for the victims" in your mind doesn't lead to justice for future people who will interact with the convicts once they are out of jail. The goal is to make them normal functional people again so they don't resort to crime ever again, if you cannot agree with that then you are in the wrong business.
exactly!
I posted about four months ago, but instead of just sharing how I felt about how it was a good prison model, I should have shared my personal experiences. I’ve been a victim of two violent crimes and one house break in while I was home. The police and I assume the latter was looking for money for drugs. He got a lot of expensive items and was never caught. However, he would not end up in a maximum security prison, but if he did, I would have no issue with him being in a prison like this to be rehabilitated.
I did not report the violent crimes for personal reasons. However, if I had and they were indicted, convicted, and received time in prison… yeah, I can honestly say I’d prefer they be here than in an American prison. I know some people will think that’s insane, and I understand their reasons. But I believe the punishment should be being taken away from society. I want them to be rehabilitated. I don’t want them to offend again. I don’t ever want it to happen to anybody else. (I’m also not naive enough to believe this model will happen in the United States.)
To me, rehabilitation is justice. This model is justice. But what is justice? Everybody is going to have a different answer for that and very few of us will completely agree.
I wish everybody could get their form of justice, but that’s simply not going to happen.
The recidivism rates in the video, are wrong.
For the US, 60% of offenders return to prison, within 2 years.
For Norway, 20% return... ever!
The reason why it would not work as good in the US, is because those released in Norway, are socially protected, from being homeless. They don't have to return to criminality, to get food or a place to live.
Humans adapt to their environment. If you create a hard environment, they will become hard. Create a soft environment, they will become soft. The key is ensuring they will adapt and not abuse it. Norwegian prison guards are highly trained and can spot trickery / lying. And only those who have shown good behavior can go to these types of prisons.
But also their regular prisons are still designed so that there is not aggression about a lack of resources or bad living environments.
I agree with this. It's just a different mentality.
I feel the inmates need to be rewarded for good behavior and like in life earn their way....however not so much in the beginning....the first part of their prison time should be hard but fair based on the situation but give the opportunity to earn that type of living and classes as time goes by
The cultures are different and they dont have gangs in Norway.
Californis is NOT reporting the danger that Correction Offficers are being put in. A female CO was raped for 5 hours, Female CO's are sexually assaulted constantly, a CO's neck was broken, etc, etc.
The inmates are at risk too. 6 inmates were murdered in 6 weeks when the Norway program was enacted in CA.
and why do you think that is? because the inmates hated her probably.
@@The_Tortoise_and_the_Hare
So you're saying she had it coming and she deserved it. That says everything I need to know about you. 👎🏿
@@christineribone9351 are you kidding me? My point was if people in prison in the US wasn't treated like animals maybe they'd act more like human beings?
Same as Indian prison. We have a prison called Tihar. It provides the same facility along with air conditioning!
We *can* create a society that will grant us revenge if/when something bad happens to a loved one.
Or we can create a society where it's highly unlikely anything bad will happen to any of our loved ones.
We can't have both, but it *is* and must be an informed choice made by the voters.
Not by the victims, not by their loved ones, and least of all by populist politicians preying on irrational fear.
In Norway we are more focused on righteousness than what you call justice. Justice is not always possible but righteousness always is.
How do I move over?
How much is rent
@@kalensimpson1070: In Norway, we have a right to a certain standard of liviing, so people don't need to go to prison.
Sounds like an awful place to be victimized. Alot people running around with Stockholm syndrome.
@@LC-hv1qn huh?
@3:00 - Another video, the figure was $129k per year compared to $36k per year.
So it's more expensive.
Norway's recidivism rate is 20%. Prison in America is known as Crime U. Nobody rehabilitates or reintegrates you. You just go back to being a criminal -- and probably a more violent one. Not shockingly, our recidivism rate is 66%.
Our correctional officers experience more PTSD, anxiety, young deaths, and suicides than any other population in our nation. They're only trained on average 6-9 weeks and most of that is hand-to-hand combat. They are very likely to experience violence from an inmate. Norway's correctional officers are trained for 2-3 years, and very little of that is defense training. It's more like psychology, ethics, social work. They treat the inmates as humans on the same level as them and the inmates, in return, treat them with respect. There has been no violence at Halden since it opened.
And due to all these changes that make it more expensive and how it so positively affects the correctional officers and especially the recidivism rates, would it not be worth it to you? (Maybe you're okay with putting people in a box with basically no human rights who work for pennies -- $0.02/hour at Angola in. Louisiana! -- just so you can call it justice. But it isn't just.)
@@LongLiveLindsayI would like to see Norway bordered with Mexico. Perhaps all mexican gangs should be deported there to show the world how it's done.
3:33
That's not a conservative politician.
That's a "progress party" politican.
They're far right populists.
He's to the conservatives what Trump or the tea party is to the Republicans, except in a completely different political party.
This is the way prisons should be.
I'm a black man Army ARTILLERY veteran and the U.S. has NO ROOM to speak because of our corrupt system. GOD BLESS NORWAY!!
Also, the living standard here is pretty high, and there is good sosial support. We don't have lots of homeless people so therefore people don't commit crimes to get a roof over their heads. I guess it would become a problem where alot of people are homeless
I think it depends on the crimes of the person involved. If the crime is of an extremely serious nature like rape, murder, child molestation, drug trafficking, or kidnapping they should not be allowed to be in a prison like this. There should also be serious considerations to letting someone who has committed a crime like that back out into society.
If your theory is that the death penalty, life sentences and harsh conditions in prison should act as a deterrent to criminals, the United States should be the country in the civilized world with the least crime. You have the MOST! Many of you are running the same theory about guns too. The more guns, the safer is the country. BUT you have by far the most inmates in the world per capita and you have by far the most gun-related deaths in the civilized world per capita. And no country in the world, civilized or third world, even comes CLOSE when it comes to mass shootings and school shootings.
Your prison system does not work at all, on the contrary it creates more and worse criminals. You already have the death penalty, you have life sentences, you have barbarically harsh conditions in the prisons, you have solitary confinement. Nevertheless, there are more and more inmates in US prisons. Why?
Profit-driven private prisons with government contracts that GUARANTEE 90%, sometimes 100%, occupancy contribute to full prisons that are only pure holding facilities with no possibility of rehabilitation because costs must be kept to a minimum and profits must be maximized. If they can make $100,000 on a prisoner serving 10 years for 5 grams of marijuana, that's what they'll do. Of course, only if it's a minority!
Which naturally means that you do not WANT to rehabilitate someone because it is not profitable for the owners and shareholders. Just like McDonalds, your prisons depend on repeat customers!
The problem for the United States lies elsewhere than in the justice system itself, though.
Your society is steeped in systemic racism, poor access to health care and education, a society that offers no opportunities to those who don't already have money or connections. Ordinary workers have almost no rights, the wages are not livable, health insurance costs too much for most, college and university tuitions are something many can only dream of being able to afford. Those who take out student loans for higher education start their working life with a debt that here in Norway we only get when we borrow money to buy a home.
The extreme difference between rich and poor is something you only see in corrupt third world countries outside the US.
You don't have a system that catches and help those who fall outside, which results in you having the largest homeless community in the western world. You have created a society that almost demands crime. Not because it is an easy or extremely profitable solution, but because in many cases it is the ONLY solution for survival.
As a result of these things and more, life expectancy in the United States is the lowest in the Western world and continues to decline. In the Mississippi Delta, it is 72 years, 12 years lower than here in Norway. The most common cause of death among children and young people is weapons!!!
The legal system in Norway (and the vast majority of other western countries) does not take into account the individual wishes of victims and victims' families, or other individuals in society when punishments are handed out. We do what is PROVEN to work and is for the good of society as a whole, even if some will always think it is too lenient. And here's something to think about for you ultra-capitalists; It also pays off financially. Instead of releasing even more hardened criminals who cost society large sums, we release rehabilitated, educated, drug-free new taxpayers who no longer burden the justice system.
You love to call yourselves "The Greatest Nation in the World" but in reality you are a third world country, only with lots of money. Your worship of the almighty dollar guarantees you a society where no one cares about others, of which your failing prison system is a very good example.
Holy Lord Yappington of the Yap!
@@LobotomizeCommies10 The hallmark of an ignorant person is someone who cannot be bothered to obtain facts and knowledge and instead makes up his own worldview based on emotions and unsubstantiated claims.
@@Valfodr_jr You are the one preaching tender socialism, don’t get me started on “based on emotion”.
@@LobotomizeCommies10 You wouldn't know what socialism is if it bit you in the a$$. I could be wrong but I assume you are a US citizen! If I am wrong, I apologize for the offense.
@@Valfodr_jr Just because I am a US citizen doesn’t mean that I am uninformed or scared about something I don’t even know. Is there something wrong with being American? If so, say whatever you want. In the eyes of the UA-cam moderators it’s not like you’re talking shit about say blacks, or Jews, or women so you won’t have to worry about getting suspended.
Plese lock me in.
I'm free, but I pay rent, incone tax, child maitenance, bills. I work with asbestos and I would like to learn new skills for nothing.
LIKE a college? It IS a college, and a whole lot better one than some if not most of the universities here in the US. Halden looks amaze-balls! The people there seem nice and friendly too. I like the prison governor.
Ask yourself if they are "only murderers" why are they not killing eachother in this kind of prison but in the US they do and continue to do crime if released.. You can't bring the dead back but you can prevent more meaningless death. And even if they have a "hotel" they still can't go wherever they please. Covid showed us all how "nice it is" to be in the lockdown and how it affects the mental state and health. Even if it is not horrific it is still type of life I would not choose to have.
I'm a black man Army ARTILLERY veteran and God bless Norway for rehabilitating people instead of profiting off of them .
WTF,really bro. A killer gets this lifestyle after all nah
It is hars to compare costs cross borders. For example a large cost will be education of inmates, but they would also get this outside the prison incl college) is free in the Nordic countries.
Long term costs are actually quickly less than the cost of US as only 20% is reoccurring cost where US 34000 per inmate, you have 60% reoccuring cost. And you have 17000 inmates vs 1 mill in the US. So hard to compare like for like. What if we add all the cost to society of the crimes on top - would that change the balance?
I know how come these Norway Guards are so chilled and have friendly conversations with the Inmates because they get paid more then any of the Guards in the US Prison Systems!
well they have a long education here, and in the US it seems you only need like a couple weeks of training, here it's 3 years. You can't just come off the streets and work in a prison, you need a full education.
Yes, you have a good point, but I live in Norway and have been in prison and haven't been back since I'm almost 50 years old. There is a very good standard of living in Norway so I don't think the tax payers think about it, I personally think it's sad and see how many American prisons are terrible, maybe that's why 70% commit new criminal acts and only 20% in Norway.
One day they will be released...you have to think what neighbor you want to get in the future because they can come live next to you
If they come out of prison and they don't commit any more crime after they release Norwegian prison can prevent that that's way better than the committing a crime like 3 years after they get released and go back
Yes, you make a good point and it may be less expensive in the long run to have a prison like this. But is it fair to the victim?
@@cosinthenews maybe you should talk to the victims and see how they feel about it so you would rather have justice for the victim than try to turn the criminal to a good neighbor cuz they eventually get out would you rather have Good neighbor then to treated as animals while they're in prison or treat them as human beings if you treat them like animals while they're in prison they'll just become animals when they get out and that's not good for society as a whole that will keep on the receivism rate going up
@@cosinthenews if you treat a prisoner like an animal in prison when he gets out become an animal when he gets out and there'll be just more victims but if you treat him as a human being and do what those security officers do come be like a social worker and interact with the inmate and there would be less violence between a security officer and inmate I bet a lot of your prisons that you were in charge of there were a lot of violence between a security office and a inmate
@@sakuraaishi246 Yes there was violence between us officers and the inmates but there was much more violence between the inmates. We spent most of our time stopping them from attacking each other. An inmate's biggest problem is another inmate, not the officers. But I hear your point. However, I try to put myself in the shoes of the victims. I can honestly say I would want the person that hurt me or my family to be punished and I don't consider this type of living punishment. But maybe I'm part of the problem.If you or a family member were the victim of a violent crime would you want the person who did it living in this type of environment? I also think the victim should have a voice concerning what happens to the inmate.
@@cosinthenews I'm not a victim so I can't synthesize with them but I also believe that the prisoner should only have their freedom taken away when they go to prison and not be treated like an animal because if you treat them like an animal well they're there they'll just come out as an animal and there'll be more victims see you rather have get revenge for the victim that they did before and not save everyone else from become being a victim in the future what in your opinion what is better getting revenge on the prisoner for their victim or making them better that they can re-enter society and not commit any crimes what would be the best solution to stop bet most people would rather them re-enter society and not comment any more crimes then people get revenge
That man who killed 77 people ....most of them where cildren (they where camping ) That man should be tranfer to a jail in usa .
I would say there could be a balance. Maybe the start of the sentence is on punishment. This is like a normal prison. Then, it becomes rehabilitation, like the Halden prison.
so you want to ruin a person's mind more and then try to fix them? Nope, it doesn't work like that, you try and fix them right away.
@@The_Tortoise_and_the_HareI am not an expert but I am sympathetic to both arguments. One that there should be punishments for crimes, and that there should be rehabilitation.
It also follows the concept of “break them down then build them up”.
@@jerrylin0312 but they don't mean break them down like that in that saying
Its impossible to compare US vs Norway. We are a high cost country, so the cost of housing the inmate reflects this.
Yes, it is expensive, but if the person comes out as a participating part of our society then it will be repayed through taxes.
I see you ask about the death penalty, and what to do with the hardened criminalt.
We do not have Crips or the like here, not to the scale you have in the US (we have some gangs, but nothing like what you have on your side of the pond)
In the US, for a lot of people, the only "security" found is with a gang. The only way they can support their loved ones is through crime.
Here we have supportsystems that helps with housing, food and ameneties (its not perfect, but it does a world of good).
I do not think our way of handling criminals could work in the US as the US is now.
Too many people living in poverty, on the streets etc.
There would have to be an immense change to the living standards and pay situation to change to a world where people do not feel they have to become criminals to survive.
When it comes to the monster behind July 22, killing 77 people including children: He will probably never be in a prison situation as the one in Halden (most of our prisons is less free than this one). He was sentenced to our harshest punishment: 21 years (with secure). It means that when the time gets closer to his release, an evaluation is done. If he's not deemed fit for society, his sentence is extended for 7 years. And so it goes. No one here believes he will ever be free again.
And he is secluded/isolated, as those few hardened criminals we have has placed a price on his head.
One thing we try to do is to find out WHY things went as they did. How did the person get to the state of mentality to do the acts of crime. And we try to find ways to make sure people are treated well enough so they don't end up there.
We can't avoid it all, but I do believe that having basic needs covered helps us avoid crime on a large scale
You also don't boarder Mexico. Get real. Europeans are so arrogant. More people cross the boarder illegally than what's in your whole country.
The United States needs to take notes, because this is rehabilitation. The US is all about the money and could care less about reforming inmates. The cruel way the inmates live in the prison and are treated like animals and the inhumane way the prisons in the US look inside is ridiculous using the taxpayers dollars to house inmates in such a poor condition. That’s not giving victims justice that’s just using money improperly. How can a person be reformed in such harsh circumstances. US take a long look at the reality of it all and be honest this is just money to you, it’s not humane what you call punishment of a crime it’s a trifling shame and just wrong.
I have a college debt I'll never be able to pay, and Ive never commited a crime.
We are the people that should receive support first. Theyre rewarding the bad people instead of the good people.
Human beings that committed horrible crimes really are you kidding me!!!
What benefit is it to the victim if the offender comes out of prison more violent, more angry and even less able to control their emotions because they have spent years being controlled rather than being taught how to take responsibility, make positive choices, deal with negative emotions more positively and how to live in society. What comfort when that prisoner is released only to commit another crime and end up back in prison?
It is counter intuitive to do what Norway is doing, and it feels all wrong. But the evidence is there. It works. It has the lowest murder rate in the western world. It has a 20% recidivism rate, violence within the prison is low, prisoners are more prepared for the outside world snd able to lead a normal life. Surely got these things alone it is worth consideration?
Norway's recidivism rate is about 20% within 5 years. That's because they focus on rehabilitation and reintegration into society. They treat the prisoners like humans. Their freedom is taken away, but their human rights are not. America's recidivism rate is about 50% in the first year and 66% within three years. We don't really focus on rehabilitation or reintegration, so prisoners are suddenly in the real world, and all they know is their previous life of crime. (And prison is known as Crime U for a reason... no better place to learn how to become a better criminal!) We treat prison as a place for punishment, not a place to better yourself and change your ways. It's a place for punishment for THIS crime. The way you're treated in prison shouldn't be the punishment. You should have all of your rights in prison. You should be treated like a human being with dignity and respect. The punishment should be your freedom taken away. Not being treated like an animal.
We treat prisoners here with no humanity, and so it's not surprising that prisons are violent, guards are attacked, and people try to escape. The rates of PTSD, early deaths, and deaths by suicide are higher in correctional officers in the US than in any other population in America.
The model in Norway trains the correctional officers to work with the prisoners. I have watched a few documentaries on Halden. It is a MAXIMUM SECURITY PRISON, but there has not been any documented violence (prisoner on prisoner OR prisoner on guard) since its opening. No inmate has attempted to escape. And the guards there are happy. Instead of the 6-9 weeks average training an American correctional officer has, a Norwegian correctional officer has 2-3 YEARS of training, and only a TINY portion of that is self-defense. It's also ethics, psychology, etc.
The longest sentence you can get in Norway was 21 years -- it has now been changed to 30, I believe. But if you serve all of those years and a judge finds that you are not safe to re-enter society because you will harm others (or they will harm you), they will add another five years on. And they can and will do this indefinitely for people who cannot be rehabilitated, like mass murderers. (And I only know of one.)
Learning this fact after JUST watching a documentary about American correctional officers being against sentences of life without parole unless it's literally the ONLY thing to do (and how they feel how sentencing has gotten extremely out of hand) has really opened my eyes about how maybe America isn't doing that right, either. I don't know the answer about sentencing, having never worked in a prison, law enforcement, or in the legal system, but it's something I want to learn more about.
Also, why do you think a prison SHOULDN'T be humane? It scares me to know people think like that.
This system works the best statistically
The system should be mainly about Rehabilitation, not only and mainly about punishment
Taking away someones freedoom is the punishment
Yes the families of victims may not like it, but emotions shouldnt get in the way of what seems to work the best
Yes you cant fix victims but you can prevent future victims which I think is the most important part after prevent victims in general
Is it justice to "avenge" one victim just for there to be another one
Or is it justice to prevent any futur3 victims and victims in general
The UN Committee against Torture critical of Norway’s use of isolation . . . Major concern about the use of isolation
The UN Committee against Torture highlighted several problematic circumstances relating to the use of isolation in Norway. The committee was concerned about long-term isolation in prisons and the increase in the number of registered administrative decisions on isolation, often on grounds of circumstances relating to the prison premises or staffing. The committee was also concerned that practices which constituted de facto isolation were not registered as individual decisions that could be appealed. The committee pointed out that legal requirements for the use of isolation were not sufficiently precise, and that ambiguous requirements for making a decision on isolation may lead to measures that amount to violations of the UN Convention against Torture.
The expert committee also expressed concern that Norwegian legislation does not stipulate a maximum limit for how long an inmate may be held in isolation. This was also problematised by the UN Human Rights Committee in April 2018, which recommended that an absolute time limit be set in accordance with international standards.
This doesn’t look like a prison. This looks like a dormitory.
do you think feeling like you're in a prison is gonna help change your mindset?
a person should be in jail until he is cured of his aggression, but that takes work, he needs to become a different person, if he can't be re-educated he should be in isolation.
For example, if a person steals, we conduct a test so that he does not know it, we leave someone else's food in front of him and watch through cameras, if he stole someone else's food, then he is still a thief and will continue to sit in jail. but you cannot tell him that it was a test.
Just time in prison won't make a man better, you have to educate, re-educate, train him.
You can't tell a person how many years they're going to be in prison, they need to be told you're going to sit there until you're safe for others and let them figure out how to become that.
Just to help people understand this abit better. That shown prison is in the 1% that old rusty place i spent a month in was a broken down facility.
And how people get treated while in prison kinda depends on how the inmates perfrom in the jail if they dangerous they get treated as such. behaving like a wild animal and the officers will treat you as such. The jail system is for rehabilitation for people to get back into community as they dont want wild animals back, they want nice behaving humans back.
Norway s system is good rehab is top priority in humane conditions.
Is the Norwegian prison system to soft? Compared to the USA, I definitely believe so. Does it work? yes?
Norway had 70/80 percent recidivism rate in the late 80’s and 90’s before they changed philosophy in working with inmates. The officers would also work as social workers and acts as role models.
The two major differences in approaches towards the inmates lies in the name. You have Criminal justice. We have Kriminalsomsorgen which literally means Criminal care. The Norwegian goal is not revenge, but to rehabilitate. And having the freedom taken away from you is definitely a punishment. It helps a bit that the facility looks nice, but overall, it sucks being there 24/7, never see the outside, enjoy the sun, no cell phone and limited contact with family and friends. So, some of the facilities are simply just there, so you don’t go insane and commit suicide. And also, to make work life better for the officers. Nobody would like to work in a place that looks terrible. It’s depressing.
Halden is a new prison that doesn’t look like any other Norwegian prison. It’s not possible to build old prisons with grid. that’s why it looks like a campus dorm. And what you see in the video are just highlights. The life there is quite boring. The prisoners can’t just go to the music room whenever they want (if they have access). Halden prison consists of many small departments. The prisoners have different access to the facility. Some prisoners can be trusted to cook their own food with sharp knives, other not. The prison officers don’t always have time to play chess with an inmate or interact in another way. That depends on the staffing.
If I was the victim of a gruesome crime, not punishment would satisfy me. I would probably want death penalty or prison for life. And seeing their life In Halden prison… I’d be pissed. But that’s my feeling. The prison officers can’t deal with peoples feeling. They’re not the department of emotional replies. I would have to trust them doing their job right, so the perpetrator does make new victims when he is released.
I live in Norway and my best friend was murdered. I hate the man who did that too her. But for me the important thing is that he was locked up away from the rest of us. I didn't want him to be abused, R worded or anything like that. That would not change anything other then him becoming angry and more damaged. He is back out and I would be more scared of him if he came out after being treated bad. When he was on the inside there where qualified people who spent alot of time with him that evaluated if he was safe to be let out. Personally I would like him to stay in longer then he did, but that's it.
I feel you on that but you also have to realize what if you or your loved ones go to prison. I think you would choose halden. It's punishment enough to keep you from traveling beyond those walls. I'm an American and I agree with Norway prison system. God bless them
Now I want to go to prison in Norway
Interested information
It costs more money when 60% return to prison in the USA than in Norway.
Calculate how much the US spends on everyone who goes back to prison.
Norway does some fantastic rehab etc. and 80% of criminals don't do it again. they get jobs and take care of themselves. Then society is safer. The USA murders or does something criminal again and exposes other human beings to violence again and again, but in Norway, or in Scandinavia, the violence becomes less and less
It's the quality of life and actually care about helping people... maybe your just use to punishment mentality...it about reform prisoners to be better and do better
I highly doubt there will ever be a real and clear answer to this I mean if someone killed my loved one it’s easy for me to think and say I want them to suffer as much as possible in hell but if it was me being the inmate in a prison it’s easy for me to think and say I need to live this way in Norway so I could still be happy and healthy so that’s the dilemma there and on a side note I will say I think the main focus should be making places in the free world like the Norway prisons I mean why can’t the free world be like this that’s what should be the case on a side note
Even a rich person in India cant get these facilities..
But a Norwegian can get cheap stuff from India. European arrogance.
About the 20 % reoffending - thats dealing drugs. In Norway, murderers don't do that again. Its under 0.1 %.
I think its not soft. Its the best. Justice isn't about revenge. The Norwegians used their knowledge to figure out whats the best for their country. They trust themselves and their country. corruption is non-existence and the government tries to provide for its people what they need. There are factors that push certain people to commit crimes and these factors aren't available in Norway. People are happy with their country and the lives they lead. They have good education system, the environment is perfect for the people and there is no oppression and abuse of power. So they came up the white paper to reprogram the few people who got deviated from the normal way of life. When inmates get out of prison, they feel they are different people and they are less likely to do bad things. They have skills and their rights are protected. In other countries inmates are treated like Animals. When they get out they have nothing to their name and they have no rights. They feel isolated and the only way to get back on their feet is to return to the criminal life. In Saudi Arabia they sentence people for 16 years for a post on social media.
What's their return rate in the middle east?
The police have already taken the criminal, and come to trial, it's not the prison's decision to treat people like monkeys like in the US, Scandiva teaches these people to get an education, get a job, think like a normal person, in the US they are released, then again do they commit crimes, because your government doesn't help people, as each person going in and out of prison costs twice as much as it costs in Norway, because they don't come back.
we only have a few vagrants, than in the USA there are millions of vagrants, and once again the government could have helped these people and cleaned all the streets in the USA, just like we in Scandinavia do,
And one day these people will go out into the open, and then they can become your neighbors
move into your area tec. then you want a normal person with a job, etc. as your neighbor, not a criminal person who will continue to be a criminal, do you want an orderly neighbor or a criminal neighbor?
and therefore we give them training to become something when they get out and continue to live normally
and you have already started in Atlanta to remodel a prison similar to Norway's
it's called little skadinave, do you call it, several crime wardens went there for a visit, went home to the usa and managed to make a prison with contact with staff, play with them games, take care of them, etc., you can look it up on youtube (little skadinave )
That’s not prison that heaven
Maybe it feels like heaven for a couple of hours. Then reality sinks in ,and you realize that you'll not see your family again for a really long time, and the people you have to socialize with are murders and pedophiles. You're being watched and being told what to do all the time. It's not a summer camp and you can leave the place.
You can sure say that again sort of like going on vacation and not wanting to leave since the Norwegian Guards are very Compassionate and chilled with the Inmates there and believe me the Norwegian Women Guards are very Compassionate and cute also!
It's not true all the time. On the phsyc wards lot of bad shit is going down.
I think they may be painting an ideal picture here. Every system has a dark side.
@@cosinthenews yeah they do. We have been given warnings from human rights in geneva. regards to isolation. And the once that's to fucked up to be released. They live in isolation Much of the time. But that's nothing new to you guys. You torture prisoners with that openly, no shame given.
@@bendikkirkbakk1833 Yeah you're right. Everything is out in the open here. Are you from Norway?
@@cosinthenews yes
@@bendikkirkbakk1833 Are all prison like this in Norway?
I need to break into this !
😂🤣Me too!!
Maybe we should treat incarcerated people like people in the USA, instead of dehumanizing them.
How do the victims feel about this accommodating? Well that's not a prison problem. We simply cant make a prison based on feelings for the victims. Helping the victims is another department, another persons job
The CO's should be able to put his feelings aside and help the offenders become better citizens.
If your going to blame CO’s for the behavior of criminals why not blame the school teachers who were responsible for teaching the criminal or better yet why not blame the parents. Better still, why not hold the individual responsible for his or her own actions. As CO’s we refuse to accept the blame for the failure of others.
I don't see why I should blame the CO's or teachers for the behaviour of criminals. We're all responsible for our own actions.
All I am saying is that the correction officers job should ideally ( I know that your focus is different than scandinavians) be focusing on helping the inmates become better neighbours. That also includes learning to take responsible for his/her own actions, so there will be no future victims.
But I don't blame the Correction officers, if does not work. Not everybody can be fixed, but it should be a part of the prison filosophy. You're a good guy, i bet you would thrive in a more scandinavian based systeme.
Jesus said, "Love one another as I have loved you". Jesus was not about revenge dressed up as justice. He exemplified forgiveness, human care, and healing one another.
well somebody people just don't know much about Jesus do they Jesus said vengeance is mine thee Oppressors accusers prosecutors mishandling scripture for enslavement they are gonna get what they dish out one day I wish I could watch how I long to see people who think punishment for humans is righteous playing GODs roll on earth I can't say that I really wanna say no freedom of speech
Even the prison female guards are slightly above average hot. Norway is most definitely doing something right over there, compared to the US.
You got that right that the Norway Prison Women Guards are very hot and bet you they are single and probably on the chat rooms or any social media to get a American Boyfriend to get married to better then in there own country of Norway!
@@phillipfuller7382 God I wish 👍
there allowed to hv a place to see the family members!?
There has to be consequences for a crime. Otherwise, it continues.
God forgives, why shouldn’t we..
Nr speak for itself.
It’s all just to show .Inside its different!!Its all about illusion.
Norway is one of the safest, happiest, healthiest countries in the world…the US is far far from it. The US prison system so obviously does not work. Norway’s definitely doing something right.
Norway has problems as well:
The UN Committee against Torture critical of Norway’s use of isolation . . . Major concern about the use of isolation
The UN Committee against Torture highlighted several problematic circumstances relating to the use of isolation in Norway. The committee was concerned about long-term isolation in prisons and the increase in the number of registered administrative decisions on isolation, often on grounds of circumstances relating to the prison premises or staffing. The committee was also concerned that practices which constituted de facto isolation were not registered as individual decisions that could be appealed. The committee pointed out that legal requirements for the use of isolation were not sufficiently precise, and that ambiguous requirements for making a decision on isolation may lead to measures that amount to violations of the UN Convention against Torture.
The expert committee also expressed concern that Norwegian legislation does not stipulate a maximum limit for how long an inmate may be held in isolation. This was also problematised by the UN Human Rights Committee in April 2018, which recommended that an absolute time limit be set in accordance with international standards. . . .
Shortcomings in prison mental healthcare
Concern was also expressed about inadequate mental health follow-up in prison. The committee referred to a particularly high rate of mental illnesses among inmates in Norwegian prisons, and to the fact that a severe lack of beds in the mental healthcare service meant that inmates were placed in isolation in prison rather than being offered healthcare.
The committee expressed serious concern about reports of such inadequate medical follow-up of inmates with symptoms of severe mental health illnesses. The committee recommended that the authorities
› abolish the use of isolation on inmates with serious mental health conditions
› implement measures to ensure full access to adequate mental health care for inmates, both in prison and in the mental healthcare services
The UN Human Rights Committee made similar recommendations to the Norwegian authorities in its concluding observations.4
Coercive measures still widely used in the mental healthcare services
The UN Committee against Torture also raised several problematic issues relating to the mental healthcare services. The extent of the use of coercive measures and other means of force gave particular cause for concern. It was pointed out that forced medication constituted a risk of lasting and irreversible harm. The committee also criticised the lack of attempts at using less invasive measures before forced treatment was initiated, and that the authorities lacked an overview and control when electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) was administered without consent. The committee recommended a number of measures, including that the authorities
› ensure that the patients’ dignity is preserved and that attempts at eliminating unlawful use of force be continued, including by considering further legislative amendments
› establish efficient procedural safeguards for the patients, including by ensuring effective complaint mechanisms
› ensure clear and detailed rules for the use of coercive measures, including restraint beds, with a view to achieving a significant reduction in both scope and duration
› consider eliminating forced treatment with intrusive and irreversible effects, such as ECT
› ensure reparation and rehabilitation for persons subjected to arbitrary psychiatric treatment against their will, without procedural safeguards and independent supervision
The UN Human Rights Committee also expressed concern about the use of force in the mental healthcare services in its observations regarding Norway.
Can i be arrested please!
Me too so I can go to Norway Prison and stay there and get engaged to a Women Guard there!
Man feeling angry living in a 3rd world country
better than my life lol
you think like an American based on American values and living conditions. Punishment and revenge, gross abuse and long sentences do not make better people. in Norway, we don't have homeless people who have to commit criminal offenses in order to go to 🎉 prison in the winter. We have free health care, free education up to the highest degree. we have a welfare society where people get help and are looked after. it is surely difficult for you to understand that this should be the normal, not the American system. R
Wow
According to a lot of vengeful angry Americans...yeah. 😂
Kills a man. I feel for the family of the dead man who has to watch this show.
Another guy kills 71 peoole and gets 21 years? 🤣... What a joke.
well you didn't listen, he'll never get out because they'll just keep extending his sentence. I live here, I know, that man is never getting out of prison, but we have these systems in place so that other people with less severe crimes don't suffer as much.
Justice is just another word for REVENGE..
Damn that would suck to die in Norway knowing the suspect/s can live like that in Prison 😂. Norway bein a lil bi*** there. California is trying to do this to the prison system. Good luck with that.
Been to this prison, wrongly accused 4 mudrden (they gave me 3000 dollars after 30 days). Now, because i have fought 4 a living all my life, yet rich family (richest country, fuck Swittserland), all the goods. I have been in nine prisons. No women or children where involved. Yes the Norwegian prison system works. Norwegian police/courts are smart that way. Cause it works, and yes i did have sex with one of the female guards there. Back 2 the point,- Police do not waste time if there are no "civilians" in the game. So . . . It works. I am clean!
Smh
This system doesn’t bring the victims back, but it prevents future victims.
Norwegian people are not like american.
Heard about this here they are sort of like England a little bit to soft on trouble makers like these Norwegian Guards are and Norway and England are just money hungry people there!