if you play Nina like MainMan and don't use her high execution options then she is not really a difficult character (to you). Its like if you were to play Kazuya without using electrics or any wavedash moves; he wouldn't be difficult to use. The difference is that Nina can be effectively played without her advanced options while Kazuya is very weak without his.
I agree. It's not that she's "easy" per say. She's just "easy to pick up" and do well with, unlike other characters like Lee. TMM said she is harder than the average character anyway, but he either didn't explain himself well enough or most Nina mains just don't want to listen
I think nowdays, People get too influenced by the pro scene. Even I, sometimes, get influenced, but I also take a lot of inspiration. Characters are hard, but once you get comfortable with it, it become much easier. Just my opinion.
The Nina players are fooling themselves by thinking that the Nina users all play like that 0.1 percent which is pro level. People sometimes forget the biggest portion of the people that play this game are green ranks
@@Carsu12 im the opposite i couldnt get out green ranks in season1 now im red ranks but it feels like im fighting people that i used to fight at green ranks (as in the same level as previous green ranks).
@@zephune9506 The opponent's skill level seems more inconsistent. Sometimes you fight gods, and sometimes light blue rank unga bunga yolo retards at the same rank threshold
I feel a lot of animosity as a nina main on this channel lmao. But seriously I agree that Nina isn't as difficult to play as is usually suggested. I play her pretty simple I think and still rank up (not that it really matters) as I'm not good at her SS cancels or WS1 butterfly combos, heck I never even seen the spammy pressure strings that MM showed last video maybe I'm playing her wrong lol. I like her cause to me she has good tools and even tho she has deeper tools to master I can still play her decently and have fun. I do think that being good at a high level with Gigas or something could be thought of as more difficult. Overall I think to just play the character you enjoy the most is always the best policy.
I'm not sure if it's my declining mental health but the past few weeks I haven't been able to win a match in Tekken. I feel like I've gone from Genbu to 3rd dan. Something isn't right and I can't pinpoint it.
Oh, that's simple. I know exactly what you mean, tilting is very normal. Best way to handle is it to take a break. If you're used to playing daily, try to take a week long break, let bad habits die out, and you'll feel much better afterwards.
Taking a break to get rid of bad habits is sound advice. Recording your matches and rewatching them is also a great tip. Identify the major F-ups you made, recrate the scenarios in practice mode and practice the correct action to take to build up the good habits
@Josie you have to learn to separate your ego from the match. Analyze what your opponents most common moves are and punish them for it. For example, I main Josie (happy coincidence) and I hate fighting Bryan, Law and Kazuya because of their launching lows and with my average reaction speed, it's a nightmare. So I had to learn ask myself the proper question, "how do I deal with this bullshit and make them suffer?" So I started to use u/f+3 often to control space and crush their lows, which limits their options because they don't want to get launched while spamming snake edge or hellsweep while also giving me mental advantage. In sum, don't get mad, and think of a way to get even with your own character's bullshit.
Same here man. I hit Byakko, took a break, dropped to Vanquisher somehow, took another break and now I'm ass at the game. Nina main btw, im prepared for the hate to flow in.
I think this is alot better formulated than his previous arguments, GJ on keeping it civil. i completly agree with what he is saying and i play Nina from time to time. I think it's really important to explain what you mean with difficulty because alot of people have their own subjective opinion on what difficulty is in fighting games. The gigas is harder than Nina hit the nail on the head.
In Tekken it is total opposite of what you said. They "cap" the character skills with the help of pros so it doesn't become broken at some point, but alllll the rest is intended to appeal to the general crowd. Tekken is amazingly balanced.
Honestly I've been a mishima for 9 months now and I've busted my thumbs learning just movement alone and finally seeing results. When you can finally enjoy a character after you some what get past the huge barrier to entry this completely makes since.
As a Nina main, I respect this point of view. There are many ways you can look at this argument with any character. For instance. Koreas Nina, noname_song says he is the best Nina when being compared to the god, only practice. And when they versus each other he would be the one to win. However, he says that Only Practice 'knows' Nina better, and this can be made clear when OP eats Knee 6 sets straight. In my opinion, difficulty is determined by the Pilot and his opponents knowledge in the matchup in both character and player.
I think that the ones who say Nina is difficult to use AREN'T the ones who are spamming strings. Of course Nina is easy to use if the opponent doesn't know how to deal with her strings, and you just spam them over and over. But yes, this was a fair and accurate explanation.
r/Tekken is fucked up when it comes to anyone talking character balance. If you so much as try to argue that something is good "at low levels", you get told that balancing should always be done based on what happens at pro level. And then in another thread you get told that Paul is OP because of Deathfist. Just yesterday I saw someone saying that the only reason JDCR plays Armor King is because of the d2 nerf to Dragunov.
I've got some data from another game which I play, *_Brawlhalla,_* and here's what I found: 1. There's over 1, 310, 618 players who have played at least one match of ranked. 2. At gold rank and above, there are 215, 995 players. 3. At platinum rank and above, there are 35, 761 players. 4. At diamond rank and above, there are 3, 930 players. 5. It is generally agreed that only the Top 500 players could be considered "pros". So, even if you ignore all players below gold (which you shouldn't), there are 215, 995 players in total. Less than 2% could be considered good at it and only 0.3% could be considered experts. *CONCLUSION: There are way, WAAAAAAAY more inexperienced players than pros in fighting games.*
That's something true for everything and for every game. And it's natural. For some reason in videogames we tend to look at the minority for reference, even when it would be realistically stupid to do so (like evaluating how well the economy works by only looking at the 0.000001% of billionaires in the world and their lifestyle while completely ignoring people dying of poverty)
Arguing semantics and what YOU think hard means. It doesn't mean you are right or wrong nor does it mean someone else that thinks execution is what makes a character "hard" to play is wrong. I would disagree that Gigas is objectively harder to win with in those categories you claim Nina is easy to win in.
When I was a teenager and bought tekken 3, I also bought the official tekken 3 practice book and learned all moves and combos from every fighter in that freaking game XD
When people say Nina or Lei is hard, they mean "hard to use the 100% of the character", not that its some Kazuya that when picked by a newbie or intermediate player wont dominate. I believe Lei is meant to be played a specific way, he got shitloads of tools to enable it. And its realy hard to play him the way he was designed to play. Doesnt mean he cannot be used at 30% of his capabilities and still be effective.
I remember back on tekken 6 when i use to lose to the bob back 2 string and the string has 4 hits you can duck the second and the last hit and have 2 opportunities for the launch punish so having this knowledge puts you at the advantage etc... the scrubbing and the more you learn the game there are gaps in the strings than when you start to learn frame data like people wonder why jdcr is so good at stepping it's because of his perspective he knows frame data plus frame and minus frames and depending on that is when you know you can step like -9 on block your opponent can't do anything after that and this goes into when you can attack and moves are punishable on block hit starting at -10 so mixing in knowing how to punish with frame data is that next level stuff and i use to wonder what's the point of knowing frame data if I know how to punish and an example of the why you should is because for example if i block a -10 move with Bryan and use his punisher 1,4 (one if Bryan's 10frame punishes) I'm at plus 4 on hit and it opens up options like i can do another 1,4. Qcb3. Or nothing I can see how my opponent reactions to it if they liked to press buttons etc... And this is the stuff im learning about now and why frame data is important and outside of input lag online this limits 🧀 when people like to reli on flowchart scrubbing if i know when someone is at plus or minus
Here in Brazil the combo thing is real. I've read people saying they are good at Tekken just because they know how to do combos. Of course some characters like Lee require great execution or others who have difficult max damage combos but it's a really small thought to think you are good because you can combo
Right? Muscle memory for combos is 1/5 of what you need at best. And it should come last (but it’s fun to practice and gets you excited to play for a lot of people)
@@2000Doriyas no doubt, combos are fun to do and create. But is bad for Tekken to be known as a "combo" or "masher" game. Here where I live a lot of people have the presumption Tekken is easy or a worthless game because of the things I mentioned
i agree with this... i can classify myself as intermediate yet i can see where tmm wants to explain... nina is easy at beginners coz you wont have to deal with electrics while mishimas do... if your skill goes up electrics become easy while nina moves becomes cheap and ineffective...
Personally I think how hard a character is, is how hard it is to reach 100% of the characters potential, still think kazuya is more difficult in that case solely because of the electric, literally perferct electric usage is harder than any nina combo.
i just met a kazuya at warrior rank that coukld electric from CH d/f+2 EVERy time. Either he is insaly good at execution nd still warrior rank, or something else is going on. Is there a way to cheat out pPEWGF's on pc? I'm not accusing him, im just wondering.
@@bujinfujin8603 to clarify performing an electric is easy i dont play mishimas and can do it /10 times, its being ready to use it a moments notice and performing it instantly, block punishing whiff punishing, and out of sidestep/backdash, and the different variations of it you have to master, its so much easier for example to whiff punish with jack d/f 2
5:08 putting Nina aside, I very much doubt that TMM had averaged those 4 categories in his difficulty rankings list... and I'm pretty sure he said things that contradicts with these categories that he finally bothers to mention in this video.
I play both kaz and nina and tbh it's harder to rank with kaz against people in intermediate level. Most of the times they simply say out of frustration they dont know the nina matchup which is why she gets away with BS in intermediate level.
Which Nina mains is he talking about ? Literally seems like he’s shitting on Nina for no reason what Nina main actually believes she’s the hardest character
Hey man, I understand you trying to explain easy - hard on 1 axis but when I was watching the previous vid I was thinking why not split it into two axes? Y axis easy - hard execution and X axis Simple - Complex gameplan. This makes it much easier to explain/defend categorisation I think.
Working much harder than those players I agree i played Bryan, lee, and kaz for awhile in the beginning not lee as much today I still like character but liked him more on t6 and tttt2 and it was tuff but im now better than all of players cause they relied on the character and there strings I reli on fundamentals and the better you get those strings of cheese and flowcharts can only last so long before the cheese runs out and you have to play tekken because the people that use those characters their best offense and defense is strings so when that comes to an end their isn't much they can do in all honesty and the three characters i mentioned that i use have from the beginning were fundamental based characters that teach you solid defense and offense and not some easy get out if jail cards when I first started learning how to play tekken I didn't know this but this is why I had such a hard time in the beginning
Check the next video, but basically Hwoarang has high execution but is easy at early ranks due to his pressure making it hard to defend against without experience, in high play and pro level he’s super difficult.
@@2000Doriyas I know man, its my main)) just wanted to know his opinion) but you goddam right, harder rank harder for me to be good with hwo, especially with opponent, knowing his match up
As a nina main who spams can opener into ultimate hunter, I just want to let you noobs know that when I run into someone who can block (crouch) and punish can opener everytime I'm fucked. It's high low high and I think you can duck the third hit even on counter hit. That's why she has a sidestep cancel for that singularly important string... I'm not good enough to comment on the subject any further. Stop crying noobs, kazuya hell sweep eats kids alive at begginer levels.
@@mixnflix101 yes he is very fun, when you get down to your own mix ups he becomes extremely dangerous and unpredictable, he lacks some combo damage but he's still my fav character
@@notmario6722 his damage is not crazy right unless you do the optimal combo Everytime for the wall. I think that’s where his strength resides. His combos are so versatile
Because it is fundamentally different compared to other fighting games, I play MK from time to time and you can easily switch to other 2D fighting games from it. Closest things to Tekken are Soul Calibur and Virtua Fighter but they are still very different.
Here is something to shut down all the arguments from the Nina players... Pauls QCF1 loops are the hardest combos in the game... Does this make Paul a hard character? We all know the answer to that don't we?
Good video indeed TMM & how you broke it down. Although I would say the skill level of playing both Kazuya & Nina on a pro level would be the same. Both Nina and Kazuya have a hard time opening up their opponents defense once they are aware of their offensive tools. Execution however falls into different categories. Nina will rely on good movement and using her "HS", fluttering butterfly & KBD. Kazuya needs just as much good movement & very high execution in combos & EWGF, but because Kazuya has been over-used for the past decades to the majority of player's he becomes very familiarised readily. Therefore the Kazuya player has to work twice as hard for his victories and will need to change their timing on execution on a regular basis which IMO is very hard master at a high level play. So I would say that both Nina & Kazuya are equally as hard, not one over the other and not Nina over Kazuya.
However, the only real difficulty in Tekken is the execution when you have NH hit combo starters, add crushes to that too which go hand in hand at times. In VF, you can't attain the max efficiency of the character in their damage if you don't venture to lean their character specific but unlike Tekken it doesn't punish you for not learning such concepts right away because of the universal mechanics. Those being a sidestep system for example. You aren't told to play at high level you need to learn a kbd or wave. That's not part of difficulty and shouldn't be. We have ECD which is an option select on defense but there's an answer to it plus it isn't hard to do, just can be done faster in little time. If I am in a race and everyone has factory new cars sponsored by all 3D FGs, here comes Tekken taking air out my tires. The reason why Tekken is the way it is, is due to the fact the mix up is within the character and there's a lack of options for some characters to deal with that character. I'm VF everyone is balanced based on their capabilities. Kage has no NH launchers? Ok you get an extra wall juggle extension and combo throw. Aoi has sabakis? Ok to encourage their use, her on block punishes are sub-par. Taka can't be juggled much bc weight? Ok every string is natural hit.
I agree with mainman that nina can be easy to pick up and that her strings are easy to use and people can abuse them and get far without really knowing how to use her properly. But like he also mentioned, at high level and pro level, to use nina to her full potential and to use her advance techniques (which mainman doesn't do) becomes very difficult to be consistent. At a high level, being that players are better skilled, her strings also become easier to notice and punish. Example, the continuation of her df 3 combos are always high attacks, her can opener only needs to be ducked etc. At high level, a smart nina player will know not to abuse strings and to apply a safer and stronger ss1 pressure game. Nina never has to always opt for the harder combos using ws 1 butterflies, but if used properly and executed well she can get max damage on her combos and wall carries. At a high level, YES, nina is one of the hardest characters in the game to use effectively and consistently. But it's a fun challenge.
The reality Nina mains cant admit is that Arslan Ash showcased better execution playing Kazumi vs Knee's Steve than any Nina player has ever been able to accomplish.
I don't understand this. I play Nina and I can say for sure she's super easy to pick up. You can lump all of her strings into just a few categories - this makes it easy to play her and to defend against her. But, Nina works best at baiting out whiffs I think, not throwing out a ton of strings. She has a ton of useful moves for doing this. Nina becomes a difficult character once you start learning the iws1 combos and hayashida steps, but you definitely don't need to learn these techniques to get results with her because at lower levels rushdown works well since they don't know a lot of the moves yet.
@@alanwalker4755 Does anyone even consider Jarvan to be hard though? He's the best low elo assassin and an amazing tank in the higher divisions, and tankin is as easy as breathin.
you should change the name of this video to "MainMan explaining to Nina mains the reality'
MainMan DESTROYS Nina mains with facts and logic.
He he lol
I like the Beginner - Intermediate - High Level - Pro classification you used to determine how hard a character is, good video
instaBlaster
if you play Nina like MainMan and don't use her high execution options then she is not really a difficult character (to you). Its like if you were to play Kazuya without using electrics or any wavedash moves; he wouldn't be difficult to use. The difference is that Nina can be effectively played without her advanced options while Kazuya is very weak without his.
Edwin Alberty FACTS
Exactly
I guess the hard to play options of nina is much more encourage to use for you nina players :)
I agree. It's not that she's "easy" per say. She's just "easy to pick up" and do well with, unlike other characters like Lee.
TMM said she is harder than the average character anyway, but he either didn't explain himself well enough or most Nina mains just don't want to listen
You deserve a fucking medal sir
''This is Reality''
-TheMainJinManKazamaSWE
Best coment ajsuajsj
I think nowdays, People get too influenced by the pro scene.
Even I, sometimes, get influenced, but I also take a lot of inspiration.
Characters are hard, but once you get comfortable with it, it become much easier.
Just my opinion.
@Kenny Exactly.
Haha try gigas.. they are always at the receiving end.. you can be good but its all pointless stress.. there needs to be a reasonable balance
@Kenny of course, and there's nothing wrong with it.
I don't think I said otherwise
Yeah but then again some chars are easy to begin with af, but haaard to compete at pro level, like law and hworang for example
Kuuhaku Nai eddy too. I remember destroying my friends with a spammy eddy back in T5
Can you please do this for all characters? This would help alot of beginners.
I've been waiting for this video for so long
Only to have it hijacked by upset Nina mains lol
True lol
The Nina players are fooling themselves by thinking that the Nina users all play like that 0.1 percent which is pro level. People sometimes forget the biggest portion of the people that play this game are green ranks
doubt thats still the case with season 2 rank changes every body and their son is atleast orange ranks these days. season 1 you are probably right
@@zephune9506 it's alarming , cause I could make it to orange rank in season 1 and now I'm stuck in yellows with a new character 🙄
@@Carsu12 im the opposite i couldnt get out green ranks in season1 now im red ranks but it feels like im fighting people that i used to fight at green ranks (as in the same level as previous green ranks).
@@zephune9506 The opponent's skill level seems more inconsistent. Sometimes you fight gods, and sometimes light blue rank unga bunga yolo retards at the same rank threshold
Niggaz know the stats are still the same Fighter is where most people are currently at. But I see what you are saying though
Thank you MainmanSWE for speaking truth!
TMM you should have 400k subs. You are TMM
I feel a lot of animosity as a nina main on this channel lmao. But seriously I agree that Nina isn't as difficult to play as is usually suggested. I play her pretty simple I think and still rank up (not that it really matters) as I'm not good at her SS cancels or WS1 butterfly combos, heck I never even seen the spammy pressure strings that MM showed last video maybe I'm playing her wrong lol. I like her cause to me she has good tools and even tho she has deeper tools to master I can still play her decently and have fun. I do think that being good at a high level with Gigas or something could be thought of as more difficult. Overall I think to just play the character you enjoy the most is always the best policy.
There's no animosity towards you, trust me.
The problem is that tons of other Nina mains are very sensitive.
I'm not sure if it's my declining mental health but the past few weeks I haven't been able to win a match in Tekken. I feel like I've gone from Genbu to 3rd dan. Something isn't right and I can't pinpoint it.
Oh, that's simple. I know exactly what you mean, tilting is very normal. Best way to handle is it to take a break. If you're used to playing daily, try to take a week long break, let bad habits die out, and you'll feel much better afterwards.
Taking a break to get rid of bad habits is sound advice.
Recording your matches and rewatching them is also a great tip.
Identify the major F-ups you made, recrate the scenarios in practice mode and practice the correct action to take to build up the good habits
Tekken is uninstalled for now. I will come back when I have a better attitude.
@Josie you have to learn to separate your ego from the match. Analyze what your opponents most common moves are and punish them for it. For example, I main Josie (happy coincidence) and I hate fighting Bryan, Law and Kazuya because of their launching lows and with my average reaction speed, it's a nightmare.
So I had to learn ask myself the proper question, "how do I deal with this bullshit and make them suffer?" So I started to use u/f+3 often to control space and crush their lows, which limits their options because they don't want to get launched while spamming snake edge or hellsweep while also giving me mental advantage.
In sum, don't get mad, and think of a way to get even with your own character's bullshit.
Same here man. I hit Byakko, took a break, dropped to Vanquisher somehow, took another break and now I'm ass at the game.
Nina main btw, im prepared for the hate to flow in.
I think this is alot better formulated than his previous arguments, GJ on keeping it civil.
i completly agree with what he is saying and i play Nina from time to time.
I think it's really important to explain what you mean with difficulty because alot of people have their own subjective opinion on what difficulty is in fighting games. The gigas is harder than Nina hit the nail on the head.
This is how developers should think like when they balance a game... sadly they mostly just look at the pro scene..
In Tekken it is total opposite of what you said. They "cap" the character skills with the help of pros so it doesn't become broken at some point, but alllll the rest is intended to appeal to the general crowd.
Tekken is amazingly balanced.
@@lunarocitygang8817 famous last words
@@chrisedwards3640 shieeet
@@lunarocitygang8817 LEROY SMITH
FAHKUMRAM
Honestly I've been a mishima for 9 months now and I've busted my thumbs learning just movement alone and finally seeing results. When you can finally enjoy a character after you some what get past the huge barrier to entry this completely makes since.
As a Nina main, I respect this point of view. There are many ways you can look at this argument with any character. For instance. Koreas Nina, noname_song says he is the best Nina when being compared to the god, only practice. And when they versus each other he would be the one to win. However, he says that Only Practice 'knows' Nina better, and this can be made clear when OP eats Knee 6 sets straight. In my opinion, difficulty is determined by the Pilot and his opponents knowledge in the matchup in both character and player.
I think that the ones who say Nina is difficult to use AREN'T the ones who are spamming strings. Of course Nina is easy to use if the opponent doesn't know how to deal with her strings, and you just spam them over and over. But yes, this was a fair and accurate explanation.
when you play this game, try to have fun with it. Frames, tech, and just frames will follow when you are ready.
I felt like it was explained well.
That's a great explanation. It makes logical sense.
r/Tekken is fucked up when it comes to anyone talking character balance. If you so much as try to argue that something is good "at low levels", you get told that balancing should always be done based on what happens at pro level. And then in another thread you get told that Paul is OP because of Deathfist.
Just yesterday I saw someone saying that the only reason JDCR plays Armor King is because of the d2 nerf to Dragunov.
I've got some data from another game which I play, *_Brawlhalla,_* and here's what I found:
1. There's over 1, 310, 618 players who have played at least one match of ranked.
2. At gold rank and above, there are 215, 995 players.
3. At platinum rank and above, there are 35, 761 players.
4. At diamond rank and above, there are 3, 930 players.
5. It is generally agreed that only the Top 500 players could be considered "pros".
So, even if you ignore all players below gold (which you shouldn't), there are 215, 995 players in total. Less than 2% could be considered good at it and only 0.3% could be considered experts.
*CONCLUSION: There are way, WAAAAAAAY more inexperienced players than pros in fighting games.*
That's something true for everything and for every game. And it's natural. For some reason in videogames we tend to look at the minority for reference, even when it would be realistically stupid to do so (like evaluating how well the economy works by only looking at the 0.000001% of billionaires in the world and their lifestyle while completely ignoring people dying of poverty)
He doesn't like Nina one bit
Not one bit I'm telling you.
Please TMM give us the rest of the vid soon. Im so excited!
I think for Beginner and Intermediate level it depends on how accessible tools counter each other.
Arguing semantics and what YOU think hard means. It doesn't mean you are right or wrong nor does it mean someone else that thinks execution is what makes a character "hard" to play is wrong. I would disagree that Gigas is objectively harder to win with in those categories you claim Nina is easy to win in.
isnt that the entire point of the video? to explain what HE means with hard? not what hard means but rather what it means SUBJECTIVELY?
When I was a teenager and bought tekken 3, I also bought the official tekken 3 practice book and learned all moves and combos from every fighter in that freaking game XD
Which ranks would you put into each of 4 categories? obviously pro would be TTGP etc.
Beginner: Green intermediate :red, purple high:blue, TTG, TGP pro:ranks doesn't mean nothing
Lee . Mains deserves my respect .. Excellent.
You explained this beautifully. Well done.
PS; Suck it, salty Nina mains.
The hardest tekken character is akuma or geese cause they have mechanics from there on franchise
he's using a pen tablet instead of his mouse for explanation. great vid
2:50 Thanks for teaching me how to say Kazuya in Swedish. "Kaaazuya". In Japanese the "a" sound in Kazuya is really short.
When people say Nina or Lei is hard, they mean "hard to use the 100% of the character", not that its some Kazuya that when picked by a newbie or intermediate player wont dominate. I believe Lei is meant to be played a specific way, he got shitloads of tools to enable it. And its realy hard to play him the way he was designed to play. Doesnt mean he cannot be used at 30% of his capabilities and still be effective.
I remember back on tekken 6 when i use to lose to the bob back 2 string and the string has 4 hits you can duck the second and the last hit and have 2 opportunities for the launch punish so having this knowledge puts you at the advantage etc... the scrubbing and the more you learn the game there are gaps in the strings than when you start to learn frame data like people wonder why jdcr is so good at stepping it's because of his perspective he knows frame data plus frame and minus frames and depending on that is when you know you can step like -9 on block your opponent can't do anything after that and this goes into when you can attack and moves are punishable on block hit starting at -10 so mixing in knowing how to punish with frame data is that next level stuff and i use to wonder what's the point of knowing frame data if I know how to punish and an example of the why you should is because for example if i block a -10 move with Bryan and use his punisher 1,4 (one if Bryan's 10frame punishes) I'm at plus 4 on hit and it opens up options like i can do another 1,4. Qcb3. Or nothing I can see how my opponent reactions to it if they liked to press buttons etc... And this is the stuff im learning about now and why frame data is important and outside of input lag online this limits 🧀 when people like to reli on flowchart scrubbing if i know when someone is at plus or minus
Here in Brazil the combo thing is real. I've read people saying they are good at Tekken just because they know how to do combos. Of course some characters like Lee require great execution or others who have difficult max damage combos but it's a really small thought to think you are good because you can combo
Right? Muscle memory for combos is 1/5 of what you need at best. And it should come last (but it’s fun to practice and gets you excited to play for a lot of people)
@@2000Doriyas no doubt, combos are fun to do and create. But is bad for Tekken to be known as a "combo" or "masher" game. Here where I live a lot of people have the presumption Tekken is easy or a worthless game because of the things I mentioned
@@joejo6969 They can always try online and see how far that braindead mentality gets them lmao
i agree with this... i can classify myself as intermediate yet i can see where tmm wants to explain... nina is easy at beginners coz you wont have to deal with electrics while mishimas do... if your skill goes up electrics become easy while nina moves becomes cheap and ineffective...
Nina mains: ah shit here we go again
As a nina main, I can get behind this.
She is an A Tier for a reason. Yeah, she's a lot weaker than Asuka and Julia😅.
Praise Gigas's wavedash! 🌊🌊🌊
It's just so FAST
Is there a step by step Kazuya wave dash guide somewhere
Personally I think how hard a character is, is how hard it is to reach 100% of the characters potential, still think kazuya is more difficult in that case solely because of the electric, literally perferct electric usage is harder than any nina combo.
So characters like Lei and Yoshi are nigh infinite in terms of that statement
i just met a kazuya at warrior rank that coukld electric from CH d/f+2 EVERy time. Either he is insaly good at execution nd still warrior rank, or something else is going on. Is there a way to cheat out pPEWGF's on pc? I'm not accusing him, im just wondering.
@@Kjernekar probably using keyboard
@@Kjernekar that or he's like mainman, great execution-0 matchup knowledge
@@bujinfujin8603 to clarify performing an electric is easy i dont play mishimas and can do it /10 times, its being ready to use it a moments notice and performing it instantly, block punishing whiff punishing, and out of sidestep/backdash, and the different variations of it you have to master, its so much easier for example to whiff punish with jack d/f 2
5:08 putting Nina aside, I very much doubt that TMM had averaged those 4 categories in his difficulty rankings list... and I'm pretty sure he said things that contradicts with these categories that he finally bothers to mention in this video.
Im still Seryu with my Jin with 6000 fight and it made me feel a litlle bit better 😌 thank you MainMan from the sweden republic
Pretty good video honestly
I play both kaz and nina and tbh it's harder to rank with kaz against people in intermediate level. Most of the times they simply say out of frustration they dont know the nina matchup which is why she gets away with BS in intermediate level.
Thank you TMM
Which Nina mains is he talking about ? Literally seems like he’s shitting on Nina for no reason what Nina main actually believes she’s the hardest character
Hey man, I understand you trying to explain easy - hard on 1 axis but when I was watching the previous vid I was thinking why not split it into two axes? Y axis easy - hard execution and X axis Simple - Complex gameplan. This makes it much easier to explain/defend categorisation I think.
Nice video tmm!!
yep nina mains reality is true me been playing since tekken 5 nina still can't do iws 1
That graph does not pass the vertical line test
Nobody:
UA-cam:
MainManSwee: EDDY IS Easy
Me: EDDY IS A GOD I SMASH 4 AND WIN GAMES NUUUB
I look at the whole 25 minutes version and u delete it and upload 6 minut version?! Reeeee
boy he boutta do it
Working much harder than those players I agree i played Bryan, lee, and kaz for awhile in the beginning not lee as much today I still like character but liked him more on t6 and tttt2 and it was tuff but im now better than all of players cause they relied on the character and there strings I reli on fundamentals and the better you get those strings of cheese and flowcharts can only last so long before the cheese runs out and you have to play tekken because the people that use those characters their best offense and defense is strings so when that comes to an end their isn't much they can do in all honesty and the three characters i mentioned that i use have from the beginning were fundamental based characters that teach you solid defense and offense and not some easy get out if jail cards when I first started learning how to play tekken I didn't know this but this is why I had such a hard time in the beginning
i wish my Maths teacher was like you.
this is better than the other tier video
They go hand-in-hand.... They're the same video cut into two parts.
Thanks.
I think there are more people in intermediate then beginners . I don't even think there are new players in Tekken
what about hwoarang? how difficult is he on beginner and pro levels?
Check the next video, but basically Hwoarang has high execution but is easy at early ranks due to his pressure making it hard to defend against without experience, in high play and pro level he’s super difficult.
@@2000Doriyas I know man, its my main)) just wanted to know his opinion) but you goddam right, harder rank harder for me to be good with hwo, especially with opponent, knowing his match up
Great explanation
As a nina main who spams can opener into ultimate hunter, I just want to let you noobs know that when I run into someone who can block (crouch) and punish can opener everytime I'm fucked. It's high low high and I think you can duck the third hit even on counter hit. That's why she has a sidestep cancel for that singularly important string... I'm not good enough to comment on the subject any further. Stop crying noobs, kazuya hell sweep eats kids alive at begginer levels.
According you how is joisie rizal compare with nina br
In the name of the storm!
🙌
I love these kinda videos keep it up man
Ps: more shitting on nina players plz
“You’re gonna love this” Hell no. Every video like this is purely subjective and to each their own.
No shit. Anyone who praises shit like this as fact or doesn't consider it an opinion(just making it out to be "false) is dumb as fuck.
I'm a Lee main, his execution is over the top difficult but you're right on everything
Recently picked him up and it's taken many many hours just to get his staples down lol. He's so much fun though.
@@mixnflix101 yes he is very fun, when you get down to your own mix ups he becomes extremely dangerous and unpredictable, he lacks some combo damage but he's still my fav character
hi fellow Lee main, i agree to you man, im actually practicing his b2 mist step everyday and still drops it in a game sometimes lol
@@NamelessKupal so how is it going with your lee journey? I started t7 recently and he is also my main
@@notmario6722 his damage is not crazy right unless you do the optimal combo Everytime for the wall. I think that’s where his strength resides. His combos are so versatile
Giggas? CmonBruh
I used to think nina as hard character but then I played nina for only 2 days n realized the same thing main man is saying
@Brian Agreed
i don't know why i watch these, i know my main will always be at the bottom....LUCKY!!
They still won't listen.
これが現実
Nina mains must be the most obnoxious thing in Tekken for TMM to have basically 3 videos regarding the character and one livestream rant
No he just hates the character .
Why does it seem like Tekken players never play other fighting games?
Because Tekken is great and other games are shit.
@@varghest4641 Hey buddy, you doing alright?
@@Phoenix-pb4sm Better than you smash players, bitch.
@@varghest4641 You are a living parody, I love it.
Because it is fundamentally different compared to other fighting games, I play MK from time to time and you can easily switch to other 2D fighting games from it. Closest things to Tekken are Soul Calibur and Virtua Fighter but they are still very different.
STEVE IS THE BEST!!! STEVE HAS THE BEST PLAYER BASE!!! STEVE IS THE BEST PLAYER!!!! STEVE IS THE HARDEST!!! STEVE ALWAYS WINS!!!!!!!
Here is something to shut down all the arguments from the Nina players...
Pauls QCF1 loops are the hardest combos in the game... Does this make Paul a hard character?
We all know the answer to that don't we?
Damn this Nina hate real lol
And for good reasons too. She's is a very overrated character, and Nina mains talk about her like she's on Kazuya's level lol.
@@MrNinjafreak kazuya is one of my most played and he's not as hard as y'all make it. That 50/50 takes you really far
@@hollowwraith4513
Nope, he's one of the hardest. Nina is a joke compared to him.
@@MrNinjafreak sure she is my guy y'all are just paying attention to can opener and d343 and not her sidestep cancels and combos
@@hollowwraith4513
Yea, I'm paying attention to that too. Sorry
Why you hate Bob so much?
For Shizzle
Good video indeed TMM & how you broke it down. Although I would say the skill level of playing both Kazuya & Nina on a pro level would be the same. Both Nina and Kazuya have a hard time opening up their opponents defense once they are aware of their offensive tools. Execution however falls into different categories. Nina will rely on good movement and using her "HS", fluttering butterfly & KBD. Kazuya needs just as much good movement & very high execution in combos & EWGF, but because Kazuya has been over-used for the past decades to the majority of player's he becomes very familiarised readily. Therefore the Kazuya player has to work twice as hard for his victories and will need to change their timing on execution on a regular basis which IMO is very hard master at a high level play. So I would say that both Nina & Kazuya are equally as hard, not one over the other and not Nina over Kazuya.
51 dislike it means we have 51 nina mains here
However, the only real difficulty in Tekken is the execution when you have NH hit combo starters, add crushes to that too which go hand in hand at times. In VF, you can't attain the max efficiency of the character in their damage if you don't venture to lean their character specific but unlike Tekken it doesn't punish you for not learning such concepts right away because of the universal mechanics. Those being a sidestep system for example. You aren't told to play at high level you need to learn a kbd or wave. That's not part of difficulty and shouldn't be. We have ECD which is an option select on defense but there's an answer to it plus it isn't hard to do, just can be done faster in little time. If I am in a race and everyone has factory new cars sponsored by all 3D FGs, here comes Tekken taking air out my tires. The reason why Tekken is the way it is, is due to the fact the mix up is within the character and there's a lack of options for some characters to deal with that character. I'm VF everyone is balanced based on their capabilities. Kage has no NH launchers? Ok you get an extra wall juggle extension and combo throw. Aoi has sabakis? Ok to encourage their use, her on block punishes are sub-par. Taka can't be juggled much bc weight? Ok every string is natural hit.
wtf are you even talking about
I agree with mainman that nina can be easy to pick up and that her strings are easy to use and people can abuse them and get far without really knowing how to use her properly. But like he also mentioned, at high level and pro level, to use nina to her full potential and to use her advance techniques (which mainman doesn't do) becomes very difficult to be consistent. At a high level, being that players are better skilled, her strings also become easier to notice and punish. Example, the continuation of her df 3 combos are always high attacks, her can opener only needs to be ducked etc. At high level, a smart nina player will know not to abuse strings and to apply a safer and stronger ss1 pressure game. Nina never has to always opt for the harder combos using ws 1 butterflies, but if used properly and executed well she can get max damage on her combos and wall carries. At a high level, YES, nina is one of the hardest characters in the game to use effectively and consistently. But it's a fun challenge.
The reality Nina mains cant admit is that Arslan Ash showcased better execution playing Kazumi vs Knee's Steve than any Nina player has ever been able to accomplish.
Frame data takes the fun out of fighting games for me so mashing is the way to go for me to have fun win or loss online.
Byron
I don't understand this. I play Nina and I can say for sure she's super easy to pick up.
You can lump all of her strings into just a few categories - this makes it easy to play her and to defend against her.
But, Nina works best at baiting out whiffs I think, not throwing out a ton of strings. She has a ton of useful moves for doing this.
Nina becomes a difficult character once you start learning the iws1 combos and hayashida steps, but you definitely don't need to learn these techniques to get results with her because at lower levels rushdown works well since they don't know a lot of the moves yet.
Nina players are basically like Riven players in League.
Always praising themselves even tho they're super easy.
true lmao
Dva players in overwatch
True perosnality wise but riven in't actually difficult its a big myth lol., any human can do basic animation cancels after 3 games
False, kazuya is closer to riven as champions like kaisa and j4 are the ninas
@@alanwalker4755 Does anyone even consider Jarvan to be hard though? He's the best low elo assassin and an amazing tank in the higher divisions, and tankin is as easy as breathin.
Its true nina is easier lol
Nin pretty trash lol, why did they even include her T7 to begin with? She's waste of space lol lol lol 😆
So true
Wtf kazuya is much harder then bs nina
Heihachi should be lower u could spam and win easy
MainMan try to learn some Mortal Kombat!
With your execution you'll be insane!
Boring game
Maybe Mortal Kombat games of the past, but MK11 is boring af and overhyped
Atleast with what friends have told me, execution is very limited in mortal kombat, it's alot more about spacing and 2D fundimentals
yay !! lucky ;P