So many batting practice Babe Ruth's that were useless, Travis Snider. I knew it, slow swing, couldn't hit an MLB fast ball to save his life. But the Shithead Toronto scouts just watched BP.
Great scene. The purpose of this scene is to show the "old school" baseball mindset. You hear a lot of nonsensical terms, "classic swing," "pops off his bat," "got the looks." It gives the viewer an immediate understand of what Billy is up against.
@C.J. Exactly --agree with you completely , to get rid of the “old mindset” what a tough thing to do…. And to introduce “let the computer do the thinking for you in picking the right players doing what their best at” so hard to do, but Pitt stands firm in the new concept , thanks to Jonah Hill, great scene.
Sure, it's a good scene and it conveys the message that Billy was going up against dinosaurs; we got that. Great scene, but it's not a realistic scene - and it's not how it really happened. Before anything, no smart general manager will completely disregard his talent scouts. The truly unrealistic part of this scene is that any major league ball club, after being gutted of their best players, would not look to get back in the hunt immediately after losing their players. They would consider their next upcoming season a wash, begin a rebuilding season, and then look three seasons out to begin competing hard again. Realistically, this scene should have contained a lot of dialogue regarding their farm system and acquiring guys who had potential, and then sending them down in order to get their bat-time and begin the process of building future stars. If the guy can hit, but doesn't hit good, then you send him down to Triple- A and get him his at-bats! It's basically the same thing that Minnesota did with Miguel Sano; except in that case, Minnesota screwed up and kept Sano down in the minors too long!
@@RumbleFish69 depends how you're looking at it. Billy Bean did argue with the scouts quite a bit because frankly to solve the long term issue he faced (lack of money) he had to think different. This doesn't mean fire every scout but it does mean something new. Advanced analytics in this case. Bean has said that while this specific scene did not occur, similary conversations did happen. Its not that scouts are useless however it does mean they need augmentation.
The guy who plays brady is incredibly underrated in this film. He literally matches Pitt and Hill's acting and almost owns the scene in my opinion. he displays annoyance and jealousy so damn well. My brother and I often quote, "That sounds like fortune cookie wisdom to me billy."
Ken Medlock is a former minor league baseball player who actually hated the SABR revolution led by James and Tango. He came up in the 70s and never cracked it. So here, 30 years later in his 50s, he's basically playing himself.
@@nathankirkpatrick1082 that's not a picture of you is it? i bet it's someone you don't like and you're fishing for insults to give you ammo for making fun of the guy it's diabolical and i love it
@@JerryMetal Not necessarily. Ugly girlfriend could mean genuine confidence - i.e. the confidence not to need to prove yourself to other guys by subjecting your romantic relationships to their analysis. Real issue is, most Americans don't even know what genuine confidence is - so conditioned are they to the myth of confidence as extravert fronting-up to cover your socially-programmed fears.
Among the reasons I loved Moneyball (historical inaccuracies aside) was the great acting on every level. These scenes with the scouts in particular, you forget that all of these guys are just actors, but they all act like they've lived, breathed and died the parts. Just so many fantastically acted scenes throughout.
A bunch of the scouts were actual scouts, apparently.... From IMDB: During a 2014 interview on the National Public Radio program "Fresh Air," director Bennett Miller said that almost all of the scouts depicted in the movie were also played by actual scouts: "Most of those guys are just scouts and there's a couple of actors in there. You know, we were just researching it and trying to get a sense of what these meetings are like and invited a whole bunch of scouts to just talk to us about how they approach things and you know, what these kinds of meetings are. And we brought, I don't know, probably 20 guys together when we were prepping the film and just to have a round-table discussion and to reenact something and we just stirred it up and watched it go, and you know, sitting with Brad Pitt and we'd just look at each other and wonder, why are we trying to cast actors? Let's just invite these guys back and let's just say--we'll just tell them to study that season and say, you're working for the A's and how would you go about it? And you know, that sort of in a hybrid with the script, written by Steven Zaillian and Aaron Sorkin, just sort of brought it to life."
The head scout; Grady, the actor was in real life a pro baseball player who even while playing this role and after the film's release said that Billy Beane ruined baseball. Talk about a genuine performance
Correct! However he wasn’t trying to obtain those runs through conventional methods… He refused to overpay any “specialists” like lead off hitters (Damon) or any sluggers (Giambi). He wanted to generate runs by simplifying the game. Just focus on getting players on base. The name on the back of the jersey was irrelevant. The more they turn the bases, the more points the team will get, which should give the team more wins. It was a smart choice to build the athletics this way, given the economic climate the team had, and still has to this day. It was mixing economics, analytics and baseball into a ‘Frankenstein’ baseball organization.
And for the record, I am not an Athletics fan. I just respect the methods. I work in analytics and understand the power of statistics. Besides, my team used ‘sabermetrics’ to end the curse of the bambino. So, I will always be great-full to Billy Beane for creating such a powerful tool.
@@DW-rs1pr not to all. Some that are young may not understand. Some that are ‘slow’ may not understand… That and there are people who haven’t seen the movie at all, they may be interested in knowing what it is really about.
@@PRYVTgomerPYLE haha you're exactly what your comments portray. You're trying to sound smart on a concept that is elementary. Anyone who's seen the movie or read the Wikipedia page of the story could easily grasp the whats going on. Calling people slow when you're actually demonstrating your lack of intelligence by lengthily describing a well known and simple concept.
I had to explain to my wife once why I find this particular scene so damn funny...aside from all the great one liners being tossed back and forth across the table, it's so funny to me because I have lived out this scene many times at my own place of employment...it's so true to real life. A bunch of guys made up of young and old, sitting around a room trying to diagnose a problem with the youngsters wanting to try something new and the old timers wanting to follow what has worked in the past with each side explaining their position by sharing stories that is TOTALLY UNRELATED and has absolutely no bearing on the current situation. It's amazing what some will say to prove that their solution is the best course of action.
And any guy who has worked long enough in any industry has been in the room with these same guys, but instead of talking about players, you're talking about plumbers.
I love the sense of psychologial war in this one. The scouts are like those tough wolves who are taking it too seriously and are allergic to the top management's attempt to get into their "yard". The talks, concentration, the feeling of brotherhood among the old styled scouts. Their appearences. I just love the setting.
Brad Pitt, Jonah Hill, Chris Pratt, Ken Medlock, Phillip Seymour Hoffman all did outstanding jobs in their rolls. This movie is my favorite baseball movie of all time.
@@albertsandberg Mr baseball- I like Bull Durham best- I’d put major league and moneyball in the mix and have some great memories as a kid going to watch league of their own with my big sis
Are these scouts good at their job? Inherently, yes. So why push back against Billy? Why keep doing the same old stuff while their team is at the bottom? Job security. Don't take risks, don't get fired. The players come and go. The scouts get paid to facilitate that.
The A’s were pretty good before this. And they lost a lot of their hitting but their pitching was still phenomenal. There were already doing a pretty good job actually. Billy just stepped it up a notch with the Bill James stuff
@Bryan This movie is a great movie but took a lot of liberties with how it went down in order to create tension and drama. Almost everyone in the A's organization was 100% aware of and behind what Beane was doing
Billy didn't have a solution to the problem in this scene. Why expect them to? And when he had a solution later, it wasn't founded in actual reality or experiments that they could see. Why assume it'd work? It was a huge risk to try it.
@SPQSpartacus Bullshit. With the exception of Kalifornia, and a small part in True Romance, Pitt was between awful and just passable for his whole career up until he was around mid40s. That point on, he somehow gained control of the craft and has given memorable performances.
It amazes me how they have no issue bringing in players who can't hit well or even can't hit a curve ball while later on, the scouts have a problem with bringing in players who don't know how to play first base and needed to be taught.
Analytics certainly impacted the game. However , the scouts seem portrayed as incompetent. The A's had 3 best pitchers in baseball (Zito, Mulder, Hudson). And an all star in Miguel Tejeda. All of them developed by the scouting department, before sabermetrics. It wasn't all "misfit players" on the A's teams. It was a combination of technology and experienced scouts.
The point is not that the scouts don’t work. It’s that they are spending way too much money on versatile player builds instead of the least money on special player builds. Remember the team is bleeding money, so if any missteps were to happen with the scouts’ preferred build, shitstorm would occur.
Key leadership lesson here: you as the leader may see the problem clearly, but if your employees are old, they won’t know who Fabio is, so you need to fire them.
Yeah, maybe. Or, like the firm where I spent 9 years, you have regular skull sessions, retreats, etc to spread the new ideas around, try them out, educate across the board (young-old).
I've never seen a baseball game in my life; don't even know most of the rules. Cricket is my game (it's just as obsessed with statistics BTW). But it doesn't matter - it's SO good that this is one of the greatest movies about any sport. Like The Social Network I think its Aaron Sorkin's scripted dialogue that makes it so good.
if he's a good hitter why doesn't he hit good? this is such a simple and stupid phrase but I've seen it repeated probably 100+ times in rookies over the time I've watched baseball. I could probably name you 50 Cubs just by themselves.
I get that but as a Cardinals fan I've seen late bloomers when it comes to hitting. Batted ball data can help explain this a little bit. But yeah if a guy isn't crushing the ball In A ball he won't hit in the majors either
Well that’s what analytics try to solve, right? They try to find underpinnings that measure true performance and take out variables and luck. For example, using the Cubs, Anthony Rizzo had a shaky and uneven start with the Cubs in 2012-2013, however the underlying analytics indicated he was a good hitter and it would turn around. And then inn2”14 and beyond they did
this section is the best description for small companies who are struggled in internal communication. someone think they are experienced so trying to use old way to face the new challenges. if u dont face the problem, soon or later you will die.
Literally, it's because he's old. Which plays into showing the "old school baseball" mentality Billy was up against. But figuratively, they're deaf to what Billy is saying. They can't hear what he's trying to say. It's a good movie.
What I find interesting in this scene is I can imagine being billy and just saying “alright you guys are the experts go get ‘em”. It takes a lot of confidence to go against the grain and tell “experts” they are part of the problem. Not an easy thing to do
@@lostalone9320 well just look at everything in the world that our experts get wrong more than right. You’d think a game would be easier to predict outcomes but maybe it’s harder due to the higher prevalence of random variables….
@@lostalone9320 what most people don’t realise is that in pro sports, you see the people who actually made it. That’s less than 5% (that’s being generous) of people/kids who try at becoming a professional athlete. Of those, the vast majority do not make it long term. There is a ocean of people who ‘had it’ that didn’t make it. That’s how wrong scouts are. They are as wrong as professional traders compared to a Gorilla picking random stock.
This was an A+ movie and one of the best sports films you can watch. I definitely believe that Moneyball can work, but much more on a limited basis. By that I mean there are only so many Scott Hatteberg types out there to be had. If most of the small market clubs (and even mid-market clubs) are rolling with this approach on any given off-season, there probably wouldn't be enough Hatteberg's/hidden gems to go around to every club looking for OBP. Unfortunately, there's a hard reality for those of us who choose not to wear a Yankees or Dodgers cap every summer. There's still a certain amount of truth to the old saying that you get what you pay for. Even though the Yankees haven't won a World Series in almost 15 years, the Astros, Braves and Dodgers have been successful and run on high payrolls. But even if you're Brian Cashman and have the power of a brute check, there's still something to learn here. Even if you're a GM that does have the green light to sign a high priced free agent, there's still a place for this type of philosophy in your organization. Especially when it comes to evaluating and drafting your minor league players. There are certain characteristics that get overlooked (or even ignored) that determine a player's value, and it doesn't really mean that the scouts have suddenly become expendable. It just means you should always be evaluating your own methods of how YOU evaluate...there's always room for improvement. Unfortunately, I tend to think there are many more Grady's out there among the scouts than there are of the Peter Brand's.
This scene has multiple great. "You guys are saying the same old good body nonsense, like we're trying to sell jeans or looking for Fabio" "Could we afford him?" "No" "Then what the fuck are you talking about man?" 😆 🤣 😂
I work in IT, and have since before it was even called IT (Data Processing, MIS, IS, etc). I've had the experience to be the first person hired by some prestigious "old money" corporations and companies and have encountered this resistance to progress. I recall hearing "Don't put one on my desk" (a PC) and "We don't do that here" and "This is how we've always done it (and we're not going to change). I've seen the same mindset in state government. Once an organization is established and successful, there is incredible resistance to progress. Some people are blinded by their own mental blocks. There are reasons for tradition and reasons for change.
Contradictory with the one guy who said they needed more runs, rbis. Why does the Pitt character buzz him down? Jonah Hill was saying the same thing in an earlier scene
Amazing mindset that places emphasis on properly defining the problem applies to all fields of work. Just making the connection to the Marine Corps Planning Process that similarly places huge importance on properly defining what the problem is early on.
"Why don't you just let us be responsible for replacing Giambi with who we know that can play?" Because you're not looking at who can play. You're looking at the guys' looks, girlfriends, attitudes and square jaws.
1:25-1:33 me telling ramblers when to shut up because they r so annoying 3:22 Metroman: Then what the FUCK are you talkin' about man? 👏👏I luv that line lol I mean my man Brad acted so well in this movie and I luv acting like my man Brad in real life from this classic movie man 🤘🤘
Really sums up how a lot of back room sports management worked in the 80s and early 90s as the media became more involved, not just in baseball, but soccer over here in Europe, in A Football, in basketball, etc. etc. These scouts would often care more about how a guy "looked" while he played or what a combine result stat from 4 or 5 years ago read, instead of looking at his last season's or 5 game's results read. They would care about his "ugly girlfriends" and whether he had a "nice looking swing" that "hit good, even if he did not in fact " hit good". etc etc.
I love baseball so this movie was great for me anyway. But I think I realized Brad Pitt was such a great actor truly in this movie. The whole point of this scene was 'don't just trust your eyes' and he may the proof himself...
These old fools are a timed in a digital world. They’re what used to be. I’m glad they’re outdated and Billy’s way of looking at things was right and levels the entire playing field.
I rewatched this scene for 20+ times. And then I realized how much information scouts have gathered about personalities of the players. Every scout knows even about girlfriends of each player. But this bunch of information was declined by the Moneyball approach. It worked previously
I'm a marketing manager and I've seen this situation in real life. Essentially one camp who wants to keep doing the same thing but doing it better. They want an evolution. On the other side are those that want to change and re-think the whole approach. They want a revolution. One isn't better than the other. I've seen "brave" people throw the baby out with the bath water and seen the company commit suicide. I've also seen "optimistic" brands slowly die as the market passes them by and execs feel like "we'll get them next year". The only difference is, like in Moneyball, do you have the stats, figures and facts to back up your opinion. Or do you just have your own opinion, authority, experience and hunches? If you want to fight for your strategy, never bring a hunch to a data fight.
This is the classic issue of "nobody knows what the problem is because nobody thinks about the problem." They all exist inside of a mindset that perpetuates the ignorance, but they don't even know it.
This reminds me of a convo I had with a couple of uncles and elders about the future (African region). They all decided that looks, personal wealth, and great speaking skills are highest priority for selecting future leaders. While I was more concerned about results and acknowledgement of the importance civil liberties. They laughed but atleast we left the conversation respectfully. It was an amazing conversation and revealed alot of what the older generation from my country valued.
@@viniciuseneas4036 Fabio was the male model but the older baseball scouts were so out of touch with things that they thoughts Fabio was in fact a player in the Seattle Mariners organization. It’s just another reason why Beane wanted to change the old way of doing things.
One thing that is never mentioned (besides losing Giambi, Isringhausen, etc.) that this team that won 20 in a row was not just a team of patched together cast offs. They had other very good position players and very good pitching. But the movie wants you to believe that Billy did it all with math and no name players.
They had the MVP Tejada, 34 HR 131 RBIS Chavez 34 HR 109 RBIS Dye 24/86 (and more) Pitchers Zito Mulder Hudson who won 23, 19 and 15 games. My point is they had plenty of stars on that team, and the film makes it look as if they won because he patched together a team of has beens.
@@MrK623 they were significantly weaker with losing 3 key players to their 2001 season. Had they gone down the old traditional way of trying to replace them and not signed players based on analytics, they wouldn’t have made the playoffs. The Seattle mariners team in their same division had more talent than the A’s team had on paper
Yes, the movie takes a lot of dramatic license to tell a story. They also made Arte Howe the "villain" of the film, even though he didn't argue with Beane and implemented his system without issue.
“If he’s a good hitter, why doesn’t he hit good?”
I love that line!!!
Reminds me of a famous chess quote. "It is not enough to be a good player... you must also play well" - Siegbert Tarrasch
So many batting practice Babe Ruth's that were useless, Travis Snider. I knew it, slow swing, couldn't hit an MLB fast ball to save his life. But the Shithead Toronto scouts just watched BP.
Hello Glayber Torres
that line cracks me up.
You love anything really easy we noticed
Great scene. The purpose of this scene is to show the "old school" baseball mindset. You hear a lot of nonsensical terms, "classic swing," "pops off his bat," "got the looks." It gives the viewer an immediate understand of what Billy is up against.
Hockey is also a superstitious sport
@C.J. Exactly --agree with you completely , to get rid of the “old mindset” what a tough thing to do…. And to introduce “let the computer do the thinking for you in picking the right players doing what their best at” so hard to do, but Pitt stands firm in the new concept , thanks to Jonah Hill, great scene.
Sure, it's a good scene and it conveys the message that Billy was going up against dinosaurs; we got that. Great scene, but it's not a realistic scene - and it's not how it really happened.
Before anything, no smart general manager will completely disregard his talent scouts. The truly unrealistic part of this scene is that any major league ball club, after being gutted of their best players, would not look to get back in the hunt immediately after losing their players. They would consider their next upcoming season a wash, begin a rebuilding season, and then look three seasons out to begin competing hard again.
Realistically, this scene should have contained a lot of dialogue regarding their farm system and acquiring guys who had potential, and then sending them down in order to get their bat-time and begin the process of building future stars. If the guy can hit, but doesn't hit good, then you send him down to Triple- A and get him his at-bats! It's basically the same thing that Minnesota did with Miguel Sano; except in that case, Minnesota screwed up and kept Sano down in the minors too long!
I liked the thought process behind the ugly girlfriend. I think he's really onto something.
@@RumbleFish69 depends how you're looking at it. Billy Bean did argue with the scouts quite a bit because frankly to solve the long term issue he faced (lack of money) he had to think different.
This doesn't mean fire every scout but it does mean something new. Advanced analytics in this case.
Bean has said that while this specific scene did not occur, similary conversations did happen. Its not that scouts are useless however it does mean they need augmentation.
Every time Bill says "Then what the fuck are you talking about man?!" I always lmao. It was the absolute perfect response.
The guy who plays brady is incredibly underrated in this film. He literally matches Pitt and Hill's acting and almost owns the scene in my opinion. he displays annoyance and jealousy so damn well. My brother and I often quote, "That sounds like fortune cookie wisdom to me billy."
Baseball sucks, its really sad that you quote such a trash movie.
Ken Medlock is a former minor league baseball player who actually hated the SABR revolution led by James and Tango. He came up in the 70s and never cracked it. So here, 30 years later in his 50s, he's basically playing himself.
@@harktheheral True! I believe two of the other guys in that room were also actual MLB scouts!
You don't look like a Kirkpatrick to me
@@nathankirkpatrick1082 that's not a picture of you is it? i bet it's someone you don't like and you're fishing for insults to give you ammo for making fun of the guy
it's diabolical and i love it
"ugly girlfriend...means no confidence" = greatest piece of baseball wisdom ever
The whole point of the scene is that this kind of subjective analysis will not help them.
Isnt he right about that though?
No
@@JerryMetal yes
@@JerryMetal Not necessarily. Ugly girlfriend could mean genuine confidence - i.e. the confidence not to need to prove yourself to other guys by subjecting your romantic relationships to their analysis. Real issue is, most Americans don't even know what genuine confidence is - so conditioned are they to the myth of confidence as extravert fronting-up to cover your socially-programmed fears.
Among the reasons I loved Moneyball (historical inaccuracies aside) was the great acting on every level.
These scenes with the scouts in particular, you forget that all of these guys are just actors, but they all act like they've lived, breathed and died the parts. Just so many fantastically acted scenes throughout.
A bunch of the scouts were actual scouts, apparently.... From IMDB:
During a 2014 interview on the National Public Radio program "Fresh Air," director Bennett Miller said that almost all of the scouts depicted in the movie were also played by actual scouts: "Most of those guys are just scouts and there's a couple of actors in there. You know, we were just researching it and trying to get a sense of what these meetings are like and invited a whole bunch of scouts to just talk to us about how they approach things and you know, what these kinds of meetings are. And we brought, I don't know, probably 20 guys together when we were prepping the film and just to have a round-table discussion and to reenact something and we just stirred it up and watched it go, and you know, sitting with Brad Pitt and we'd just look at each other and wonder, why are we trying to cast actors? Let's just invite these guys back and let's just say--we'll just tell them to study that season and say, you're working for the A's and how would you go about it? And you know, that sort of in a hybrid with the script, written by Steven Zaillian and Aaron Sorkin, just sort of brought it to life."
@@bobbabai That's awesome. That's why this scene seemed so natural.
Real scouts acting not actors playing scouts
@@LeoLarrosa1987 the Armageddon effect: It's easier to teach a scout to act than to teach an actor about scouting :P
The head scout; Grady, the actor was in real life a pro baseball player who even while playing this role and after the film's release said that Billy Beane ruined baseball. Talk about a genuine performance
"Who's Fabio?"
Gets me every time.
Hes a short stop..
For Seattle
@@twelveshepherd9331 Lol, it's like the kind of dialogue you'd hear on the Sopranos. A total disconnect between old school and new school.
was there laughter in the background from some production people? sounds like a woman's laughter.
I love how he just drops his head in response to that like it just keeps getting more ridiculous.
The last guy was actually right. He said they needed more runs. Thats fundamentally what Billy is looking for
Correct! However he wasn’t trying to obtain those runs through conventional methods… He refused to overpay any “specialists” like lead off hitters (Damon) or any sluggers (Giambi). He wanted to generate runs by simplifying the game. Just focus on getting players on base. The name on the back of the jersey was irrelevant. The more they turn the bases, the more points the team will get, which should give the team more wins. It was a smart choice to build the athletics this way, given the economic climate the team had, and still has to this day. It was mixing economics, analytics and baseball into a ‘Frankenstein’ baseball organization.
And for the record, I am not an Athletics fan. I just respect the methods. I work in analytics and understand the power of statistics.
Besides, my team used ‘sabermetrics’ to end the curse of the bambino. So, I will always be great-full to Billy Beane for creating such a powerful tool.
@@PRYVTgomerPYLE I also watched the movie... 😂 It was pretty straightforward lol
@@DW-rs1pr not to all. Some that are young may not understand. Some that are ‘slow’ may not understand…
That and there are people who haven’t seen the movie at all, they may be interested in knowing what it is really about.
@@PRYVTgomerPYLE haha you're exactly what your comments portray. You're trying to sound smart on a concept that is elementary. Anyone who's seen the movie or read the Wikipedia page of the story could easily grasp the whats going on. Calling people slow when you're actually demonstrating your lack of intelligence by lengthily describing a well known and simple concept.
I had to explain to my wife once why I find this particular scene so damn funny...aside from all the great one liners being tossed back and forth across the table, it's so funny to me because I have lived out this scene many times at my own place of employment...it's so true to real life. A bunch of guys made up of young and old, sitting around a room trying to diagnose a problem with the youngsters wanting to try something new and the old timers wanting to follow what has worked in the past with each side explaining their position by sharing stories that is TOTALLY UNRELATED and has absolutely no bearing on the current situation. It's amazing what some will say to prove that their solution is the best course of action.
transltaion: "I have no vision"
And any guy who has worked long enough in any industry has been in the room with these same guys, but instead of talking about players, you're talking about plumbers.
I have received my best advice from older people, not younger.
I love the sense of psychologial war in this one. The scouts are like those tough wolves who are taking it too seriously and are allergic to the top management's attempt to get into their "yard". The talks, concentration, the feeling of brotherhood among the old styled scouts. Their appearences. I just love the setting.
Brad Pitt, Jonah Hill, Chris Pratt, Ken Medlock, Phillip Seymour Hoffman all did outstanding jobs in their rolls. This movie is my favorite baseball movie of all time.
Sandlot, Rookie of the year, The Natural, Field of Dreams
@@mikeglaser7531 Major League, FTW.
@@HarryBalzak shhhhiiiitttttt can't believe I forgot about that. Thank you! WILD THING!!
That Tom Selleck one.
@@albertsandberg Mr baseball- I like Bull Durham best- I’d put major league and moneyball in the mix and have some great memories as a kid going to watch league of their own with my big sis
"Who is Fabio?"
"He's a short stop... He's a short stop from Seattle."
Probably the best scene in this movie!
😂😂😂😂
How the hell did I miss that line? lol. Fraeking hilarious.
Might be a stretch, but a reference to ARod? Can’t remember if he left this year or not.
100%
Mine as well lol. I love that the oldest guy asked it, too. He was so cute.
"HEy old guys- Throw out as many baseball cliches as you can in 30 seconds- GO!!!"-
Mission accomplished.
I love the lead scout's condescending look @00:29.
Are these scouts good at their job? Inherently, yes. So why push back against Billy? Why keep doing the same old stuff while their team is at the bottom? Job security. Don't take risks, don't get fired. The players come and go. The scouts get paid to facilitate that.
lol
Can he hit?
Well he has a beautiful swing LOL
The A’s were pretty good before this. And they lost a lot of their hitting but their pitching was still phenomenal. There were already doing a pretty good job actually. Billy just stepped it up a notch with the Bill James stuff
@Bryan This movie is a great movie but took a lot of liberties with how it went down in order to create tension and drama. Almost everyone in the A's organization was 100% aware of and behind what Beane was doing
@@JarrodHenry Liberties to create drama is what a Movie is, tho right?!! Otherwise we just watch a Ken Burns Documentary.......
Billy didn't have a solution to the problem in this scene. Why expect them to?
And when he had a solution later, it wasn't founded in actual reality or experiments that they could see. Why assume it'd work?
It was a huge risk to try it.
Pitt was great in this movie 🍿
Agreed. The bastard is not only pretty but a brilliant actor too. Poor taste in women in my opinion but i had to look for a flaw didnt i.
Amazing actor. He was great in Snatch
Best he's ever been
@SPQSpartacus Bullshit. With the exception of Kalifornia, and a small part in True Romance, Pitt was between awful and just passable for his whole career up until he was around mid40s. That point on, he somehow gained control of the craft and has given memorable performances.
Mango Pitts
"who's Fabio?" - "He's a shortstop, he's a shortstop from Seattle.." great scene, love this film!
It amazes me how they have no issue bringing in players who can't hit well or even can't hit a curve ball while later on, the scouts have a problem with bringing in players who don't know how to play first base and needed to be taught.
“Who’s Fabio?” is my favorite line from this scene. Hilarious timing
"50 feet of crap then there's us"
LOL
Analytics certainly impacted the game. However , the scouts seem portrayed as incompetent. The A's had 3 best pitchers in baseball (Zito, Mulder, Hudson). And an all star in Miguel Tejeda. All of them developed by the scouting department, before sabermetrics. It wasn't all "misfit players" on the A's teams. It was a combination of technology and experienced scouts.
Seemed more like they were all arrogant and only believed in their system.
3 best pitchers? Pedro Martinez would like to have a word.
The scouting system definitely works. But Grady was portrayed as an ah.
The movie exaggerates to get the point across.
The point is not that the scouts don’t work. It’s that they are spending way too much money on versatile player builds instead of the least money on special player builds. Remember the team is bleeding money, so if any missteps were to happen with the scouts’ preferred build, shitstorm would occur.
Key leadership lesson here: you as the leader may see the problem clearly, but if your employees are old, they won’t know who Fabio is, so you need to fire them.
Yeah, maybe. Or, like the firm where I spent 9 years, you have regular skull sessions, retreats, etc to spread the new ideas around, try them out, educate across the board (young-old).
They're 6s at best
He’s a shortstop from Seattle
He can't fire those guys, those guys are cheap
Everyone knows who Fabio is. He runs the numbers and collects protection money for the mob.
"He's the kind of guy who walks into a room and his dick has already been there for two minutes." Shit always gets me laughing
"An ugly girlfriend means no confidence." that is such an amazing analysis. lol
the old timer..."whos fabbbioo???" lmao, love it!
I don’t even watch baseball but this movie makes me wanna manage a team.
Every scene is just so good !!
I've never seen a baseball game in my life; don't even know most of the rules. Cricket is my game (it's just as obsessed with statistics BTW). But it doesn't matter - it's SO good that this is one of the greatest movies about any sport. Like The Social Network I think its Aaron Sorkin's scripted dialogue that makes it so good.
Fantasy Baseball.
"Who's Fabio?" "He's a shortstop for Seattle" LMAO
if he's a good hitter why doesn't he hit good?
this is such a simple and stupid phrase but I've seen it repeated probably 100+ times in rookies over the time I've watched baseball. I could probably name you 50 Cubs just by themselves.
Josh Vitters comes to mind.
@@gastonmannlicher8077 Cubs fan too? I really could list off 50 guys probably lol. Felix Pie!
I get that but as a Cardinals fan I've seen late bloomers when it comes to hitting. Batted ball data can help explain this a little bit. But yeah if a guy isn't crushing the ball In A ball he won't hit in the majors either
Ha ha reminds me of the jags passing on Hutchinson this year un football. Though of course maybe that works out for them.
Well that’s what analytics try to solve, right? They try to find underpinnings that measure true performance and take out variables and luck. For example, using the Cubs, Anthony Rizzo had a shaky and uneven start with the Cubs in 2012-2013, however the underlying analytics indicated he was a good hitter and it would turn around. And then inn2”14 and beyond they did
"I'm just saying tho... His girlfriend is a 6 at best"
Lacks confidence....
@@markfoster8167 ya like how's that even a criteria LOL
@@Thefictitious_reel lacks confidence, pretty self evident
Thought he was talking about Pat Mahommes
"who's Fabio?"
""I think he's the shortstop from Seattle..""
this section is the best description for small companies who are struggled in internal communication. someone think they are experienced so trying to use old way to face the new challenges. if u dont face the problem, soon or later you will die.
Love how the guy with the hearing aid says “when he hits the ball you can hear it through the whole ball park”
Lol
Literally, it's because he's old. Which plays into showing the "old school baseball" mentality Billy was up against.
But figuratively, they're deaf to what Billy is saying. They can't hear what he's trying to say.
It's a good movie.
@@superguy183828 Wow you think? Totally missed the joke. We already know what you wrote.
0:49 that's a dangerous game he's playing having two identical coffee cups next to each other, one with coffee and one with spit
That’s all I thought about. Not even a “oops grabbed the left one by mistake” moment lol
I was wondering: What's it with all the spitting in this movie? What do they spit out? Are they chewing anything?
@@gapjunction11 Dip tobacco, finely ground cured tobacco
@@gapjunction11 dip is a pretty common (or was) thing for baseball players to do whilst playing.
“Who’s Fabio?” that got me 😂😂😂
I don't follow baseball, haven't watched a full game ever - but this is one of my favorite movies lol
The guy saying “he can really hit it, you can hear it pop all over the park” with hearing aids on 😂😂
Pitt’s face at 3:06 has me dying 😂😂
Same! Love it.
"Who's Fabio?"
I'm dead, lol.
What I find interesting in this scene is I can imagine being billy and just saying “alright you guys are the experts go get ‘em”. It takes a lot of confidence to go against the grain and tell “experts” they are part of the problem. Not an easy thing to do
Yes. It's a rare experienced professional who recognizes it's time to shift gears, see new light, drop old habits.... Do what it now requires......
@@lostalone9320 well just look at everything in the world that our experts get wrong more than right. You’d think a game would be easier to predict outcomes but maybe it’s harder due to the higher prevalence of random variables….
@@lostalone9320 what most people don’t realise is that in pro sports, you see the people who actually made it. That’s less than 5% (that’s being generous) of people/kids who try at becoming a professional athlete. Of those, the vast majority do not make it long term. There is a ocean of people who ‘had it’ that didn’t make it.
That’s how wrong scouts are. They are as wrong as professional traders compared to a Gorilla picking random stock.
It's been a few years since I watched baseball, so I'm glad this scene reminded me that Fabio played for Seattle back in the day.
Making the hearing aid visible was no accident.
“I’m tellin’ ya, his girlfriend is a 6 at best.”
🤣🤣🤣
You can feel the frustration from Brad Pitt
No he's just happy to see you
The writing in this movie is choice!!! Pitt does do a good job on the delivery for sure!!
I like how they defend Geronimo not being able to hit by saying after 400 at bats he'll be better, but balk at the idea of teaching someone first base
Grady: "You give him 400 at bats he is gonna get better!"
Avg MLB fan on his couch: "ME TOO!!!"
Except sometimes it doesn't work. I'll give you 2 words that prove that: Dom Brown. Look him up.
"Who's Fabio?" "He's some shortstop in Seattle" lol
This was an A+ movie and one of the best sports films you can watch. I definitely believe that Moneyball can work, but much more on a limited basis. By that I mean there are only so many Scott Hatteberg types out there to be had. If most of the small market clubs (and even mid-market clubs) are rolling with this approach on any given off-season, there probably wouldn't be enough Hatteberg's/hidden gems to go around to every club looking for OBP.
Unfortunately, there's a hard reality for those of us who choose not to wear a Yankees or Dodgers cap every summer. There's still a certain amount of truth to the old saying that you get what you pay for. Even though the Yankees haven't won a World Series in almost 15 years, the Astros, Braves and Dodgers have been successful and run on high payrolls.
But even if you're Brian Cashman and have the power of a brute check, there's still something to learn here. Even if you're a GM that does have the green light to sign a high priced free agent, there's still a place for this type of philosophy in your organization. Especially when it comes to evaluating and drafting your minor league players.
There are certain characteristics that get overlooked (or even ignored) that determine a player's value, and it doesn't really mean that the scouts have suddenly become expendable. It just means you should always be evaluating your own methods of how YOU evaluate...there's always room for improvement.
Unfortunately, I tend to think there are many more Grady's out there among the scouts than there are of the Peter Brand's.
I love the witty dialogue exchange between them. Really engaging
Yes, pure Aaron Sorkin
This scene has multiple great. "You guys are saying the same old good body nonsense, like we're trying to sell jeans or looking for Fabio"
"Could we afford him?"
"No"
"Then what the fuck are you talking about man?" 😆 🤣 😂
"I'm just saying, she's a 6 at best" 😂😂
I just rewatched this. These clips make me want to watch again.
Who’s Fabio?
Shortstop for Seattle
Always makes me laugh
Me too lol
Hilarious
I work in IT, and have since before it was even called IT (Data Processing, MIS, IS, etc). I've had the experience to be the first person hired by some prestigious "old money" corporations and companies and have encountered this resistance to progress. I recall hearing "Don't put one on my desk" (a PC) and "We don't do that here" and "This is how we've always done it (and we're not going to change). I've seen the same mindset in state government. Once an organization is established and successful, there is incredible resistance to progress. Some people are blinded by their own mental blocks. There are reasons for tradition and reasons for change.
I love this movie. It literally looks and sounds like Brad Pitt was put in a room with the entire front office of an MLB org.
Considering that a lot of those guys at the table aren't actors, but actual MLB scouts/staff, this is accurate. Great movie, great scene.
"who's Fabio?" = DEAD LMFAO
It's like a bunch of paps sitting at the table talkin baseball.
Who's Fabio? Underrated line.
Contradictory with the one guy who said they needed more runs, rbis. Why does the Pitt character buzz him down? Jonah Hill was saying the same thing in an earlier scene
Love sports not a big baseball guy but this is honestly one of the best sports movies ever.
“Who’s FAB-E-OH?”
Short stop from Seattle!
I love Gradys character. I wish there was more of him in this movie.
Amazing mindset that places emphasis on properly defining the problem applies to all fields of work. Just making the connection to the Marine Corps Planning Process that similarly places huge importance on properly defining what the problem is early on.
I'm glad I found out that Fabio is a shortstop from Seattle.
“Who’s Fabio?” “The shortstop from Seattle.” 😂
I love how the guys lean on their experience but what result at that point did it get them? They sucked at their job, Billy knew it.
As Trump would say about the politicians, "They have experience, but it's bad experience."
"Why don't you just let us be responsible for replacing Giambi with who we know that can play?"
Because you're not looking at who can play. You're looking at the guys' looks, girlfriends, attitudes and square jaws.
“Who’s Fabio”? “He’s the shortstop, the shortstop for Seattle”. 😂😂😂
1:25-1:33 me telling ramblers when to shut up because they r so annoying
3:22 Metroman: Then what the FUCK are you talkin' about man? 👏👏I luv that line lol
I mean my man Brad acted so well in this movie and I luv acting like my man Brad in real life from this classic movie man 🤘🤘
This movie has so much heart. Amazing movie
Really sums up how a lot of back room sports management worked in the 80s and early 90s as the media became more involved, not just in baseball, but soccer over here in Europe, in A Football, in basketball, etc. etc. These scouts would often care more about how a guy "looked" while he played or what a combine result stat from 4 or 5 years ago read, instead of looking at his last season's or 5 game's results read. They would care about his "ugly girlfriends" and whether he had a "nice looking swing" that "hit good, even if he did not in fact " hit good". etc etc.
There's this tention between the cup he uses to spit in and the cup he uses to drink coffee.
"who's Fabio?".. best line in the whole movie
I love baseball so this movie was great for me anyway. But I think I realized Brad Pitt was such a great actor truly in this movie. The whole point of this scene was 'don't just trust your eyes' and he may the proof himself...
Moneyball has to be the brother or cousin to the movie Primary Colors! The lines in each movie are pure gold! Peace!
I love this scene. Wish I could have been in the room when the reality took place. Damn.
Its hard going against the grain.
These old fools are a timed in a digital world. They’re what used to be. I’m glad they’re outdated and Billy’s way of looking at things was right and levels the entire playing field.
I rewatched this scene for 20+ times. And then I realized how much information scouts have gathered about personalities of the players. Every scout knows even about girlfriends of each player. But this bunch of information was declined by the Moneyball approach. It worked previously
It did not work obviously lol
Don't remember if it was in the movie, but the book relates the story of a scout that didn't think a catcher was any good because he was "lumpy".
Can’t believe this movie came out ten years ago already!
It’s aged so well, too. I like it better now than I did in 2011.
"Fabio is a short-stop" 😂😂🥴😂😂
“If he’s a good hitter why doesn’t he hit good?” I say that about any guy who has 30+ home runs but is batting .195
“Who’s Fabio?” 🤣🤣🤣
I'm a marketing manager and I've seen this situation in real life. Essentially one camp who wants to keep doing the same thing but doing it better. They want an evolution. On the other side are those that want to change and re-think the whole approach. They want a revolution.
One isn't better than the other. I've seen "brave" people throw the baby out with the bath water and seen the company commit suicide. I've also seen "optimistic" brands slowly die as the market passes them by and execs feel like "we'll get them next year".
The only difference is, like in Moneyball, do you have the stats, figures and facts to back up your opinion. Or do you just have your own opinion, authority, experience and hunches? If you want to fight for your strategy, never bring a hunch to a data fight.
You still don’t get it
Why is this scene so rewatchable?
I love the scene and the movie as a whole.
Even so, I wonder how close to reality this series of exchanges actually was.
This is the classic issue of "nobody knows what the problem is because nobody thinks about the problem." They all exist inside of a mindset that perpetuates the ignorance, but they don't even know it.
I don't even understand baseball but I really enjoyed this movie.
I came back to this scene after the A's last game. 😢
Screw you Fisher!!!
Aaron Sorkin is such a brilliant writer. “Who’s Fabio?” “A shortstop.” lol
Very underrated movie.
I totally love this sense in Moneyball ❤😊
Fabio was a great ball player. Not many people talk about him hahaha. I love that part.
Grady knows how to make you really dislike him, lol.
In his entire career Billy Beane's teams managed to win a single playoff series. Just one.
This reminds me of a convo I had with a couple of uncles and elders about the future (African region). They all decided that looks, personal wealth, and great speaking skills are highest priority for selecting future leaders. While I was more concerned about results and acknowledgement of the importance civil liberties. They laughed but atleast we left the conversation respectfully. It was an amazing conversation and revealed alot of what the older generation from my country valued.
Two movies that stand out in the idea that buying talent doesn't work are Moneyball and Miracle. Great movies
Herb Brooks did recruit talent. He just recruited specific talent to make a team instead of just talent alone.
Who’s Fabio?
He’s a shortstop, shortstop from Seattle! 🤣
I never understood what that means
@@viniciuseneas4036 Fabio was the male model but the older baseball scouts were so out of touch with things that they thoughts Fabio was in fact a player in the Seattle Mariners organization. It’s just another reason why Beane wanted to change the old way of doing things.
@@viniciuseneas4036 Maybe a dig at A-Rod? Was he with Texas or Seattle at the time?
@@nicholasmartinez3220 Texas I think
“Like we are looking for Fabio” 😂😂😂😂
One thing that is never mentioned (besides losing Giambi, Isringhausen, etc.) that this team that won 20 in a row
was not just a team of patched together cast offs. They had other very good position players and very good pitching. But the movie
wants you to believe that Billy did it all with math and no name players.
They had the MVP Tejada, 34 HR 131 RBIS Chavez 34 HR 109 RBIS Dye 24/86 (and more) Pitchers Zito Mulder Hudson who won 23, 19 and 15 games. My point is they had plenty of stars on that team, and the film makes it look as if they won because he patched together a team of has beens.
@@MrK623 they were significantly weaker with losing 3 key players to their 2001 season. Had they gone down the old traditional way of trying to replace them and not signed players based on analytics, they wouldn’t have made the playoffs. The Seattle mariners team in their same division had more talent than the A’s team had on paper
@@tombardsley3081 They replaced Isringhausen by trading two players to Toronto for Billy Koch.
Yes, the movie takes a lot of dramatic license to tell a story. They also made Arte Howe the "villain" of the film, even though he didn't argue with Beane and implemented his system without issue.