I've said it before, Atmos won't stop stereo from being the main way most consumers listen to music. It won't live up to the hype once it has been properly been pushed onto the customers. I agree with you, it will be a niche market thing and won't be widely adopted by the majority of consumers.
Imagine every home with 12 speakers in their living room lol Maybe for the rich in their mansions but if the market is the rich people then I see the music industry dying out. Atmos is one way forward maybe in-car system but you will be driving not listening for where the reverb is coming from. For Home Theatre definitely yes. I went to a cinema where they have Dolby Atmos and I tell you it didn't sound half as good as stereo. It sounded empty! I was thinking maybe they need to turn it up a bit, You couldn't hear the dialogue so well.
I think we need to get back to better songs, progression in creativity of " music " . Atmos is not the answer to " great music" ... and Apple and the likes " pushing " Atmos is the #1 reason I personally am running from conforming to this idea.
People listen to music with headphones, not stereo speakers, so audio should be binaural at this point, not stereo. There is a difference, even if you don't use it to place audio behind the listener, something you can do with binaural audio, the whole imaging differs, to get audio in the right place from the intended placement in stereo you have to mix differently, and also bianural allows for a wider soundstage, and that can help when mixing.
I´ve said it many times in other channels, this is just a way for Apple and Spotify to make the gap even bigger for independent artists and engineers, and it really doesn´t add much to certain genres such as rock and metal (Who wants their bass or kick flying around the ceiling?), at the end you love how your favorite bands sound live in a stereo array. I would like it if it´s for creative purposes, but making it a rule so independent artists can have the same few streams really sucks IMO.
Absolutely. And they're counting on marketing it before the boomer generation passes away. The goal seems to be to rehash everything that was recorded in the 60's and 70's in a new format so they can cash in on it. They might be in for a unpleasant surprise, though. I don't think many boomers would care much for all the gimmicks. To us, it was about the music. And that's pretty much gone.
Agree!! No one has been able to explain in simple terms why immersive (ATMOS or not) is a better listening experience for most consumer music, unless you are going for a psychedelic mix. It’s all a hype cycle by manufacturers and platforms, trying to drive an equipment replacement cycle. (“Hi” from Produce Like A Pro member)
Hi fellow PLAPer, the separation you can achieve with Atmos is amazing with the surround system, less so with bi-natural, but yeh it is industry hype over consumer demand.
@@EdThorne yes I don’t doubt that sound separation can be achieved. The unanswered question is: to what end? I do a lot of projects using Virtual Sound Stage, so I am very keen on creating a rich and subtle sonic image with stereo speakers (virtual live). But I don’t know anyone else in PLAPA doing the same. Likewise in commercial recording. Everyone uses the basics: pan + volume + reverb. From this I conclude that there is no artistic interest from producers or musicians for anything beyond simple stereo.
@@russellcameronthomas2116 Reverbs using atmos will place the refelection as close to the correct position as possible, making them a lot more natural, than just a reverb coming from front speakers. Mixing with the typical stere-pan, should be avoided today, as most serious listening is made on headphones, and stereo speaker based mixing, does not translate to headphones. And nearfield monitor mixes in a treated studio never translated that well in to stereo systems in a home, so you will be able to get a lot closer to how the listener will hear it you make mixes for headphones.
@@TheJonHolstein yes, I believe accurate reverb placement is a potential benefit of ATMOS. Maybe the only benefit if all the main music elements are intended to be in front of the listener. But that would require at least 4 stems for every reverb or maybe 6 - left, right, top, back, and maybe behind-left and behind-right. Related: why aren’t there any tutorial videos on reverb placement in ATMOS? My guess: because no one has figured out how to do it well with the “3D object” paradigm. One conceivable solution: use a plugin to generate the reverb objects, similar to what Virtual Sound Stage does with stereo speakers. If I am missing something, please let me know.
I think you hit the nail on the head comparing it to 3d cinema but I'd say it's like 3d tvs. It'll be cool to show off and possibly watch something every once in a while, but most likely won't be the standard. I usually listen to music while I work out. I'm focused on a lot of things I don't think hearing sounds and music pan around me would be as good as they want you to believe cause they're pushing it so hard. Like you said a niche hi Fi market that cares about it and is passionate about it, but not for regular people who just buy cheap stuff off Amazon.
@@EdThorne But accurate reverb reflection positioning, voice of god effects, and atmospheric/environment effects as well as positioning the listener in what feels like the center of a live recording in a recording room, can all be very nice effects, without any movement. The issue with Atmos is that headphone playback is an afterthought, that isn't well implemented. We really needed a format that would be able to make sounds in headphones sound accurate compared to mixes done on nearfield monitors in a treated room, that is unlike any consumer really ever had, and the translation of mixes from speakers to headphones are horrible.
@@TheJonHolstein that's true I could actually see it used really well there. Like as if you're in a recording booth with an artist for an intimate emotional track. And it starts to open up into something big as the track takes you somewhere else. But not crazy panning. Like ok now you're in another room as a story is unfolding. Very niche and case specific but it'll wow people who experience it.
Totally agree. Isn’t Atmos just cooperate stuff?..a way for Apple and Co to keep you on the chain? 3D for your ears requires more speakers in your home. Most consumers wanna keep it simple, right?
Exactly. The consumer wants convenience and cheap (besides a small niche of industry pros and audiophiles). The idea of increased separation in a mix does appeal to me though.
@@EdThorneI think most of my friends would describe me as an audiophile and an ideal candidate for this. I have a full Dolby Atmos setup for Film and a dedicated stereo setup for Music. I've tried ATMOS music through Apple TV and its...well... very hit and miss. The standard is all over the place. In stereo...I just know where I am. The whole shift surprises me. Even most engineers I know, aren't audiophiles, with just modest setups at home and the young folk have their phone speakers, so they don't care. I reckon the studios are being fed a lot of FOMO here, so unless you wanna get into movie mixes, as an engineer, I wouldn't spend a lot of money on kitting your studio out.
@@basilandrigsby Yes but your music, may be in Atmos. I would like it at a restaurant while I'm eating or yes the cinema but at home, the piano swirls around while I try to listen to Chopin would be a bit annoying. Then again I do like Technology definitely in my car would be nice.
@@shan5445 Now imagine hearing the piano like you were in a concert hall. The piano itself doesn't swirl at all - but the reflection signals would come from just the right places (sides, back, ceiling) at the right times. I guess that's not achievable with stereo or 5.1 surround.
I think you are mistaken about Atmos. Here in my room it sounds incredible. It also sounds very good in binaural and you can listen on regular headphones with the right settings. I am finding mixing in stereo now is a bit disappointing after mixing in Atmos. I predict the technology will improve with headphones and other listening devices, as well.
I’ve heard it in Apples AirPod Max’s and besides the lead vocal moving, the binaural is nowhere near Atmos. So, the technology is still miles away from being relevant to consumers.
@@EdThorne I agree that binaural is not Atmos by a long stretch, but it does create a lot of space and movement, if the mixer wants. I think it will improve. Atmos in cars should be good, since the head is in one place. I don't think it is going away.
I think the headphones would have to be huge over ears with multiple drivers physically set apart to replicate the feeling. It just can’t work with single dynamic drivers each side.
Im glad I bought my Apollo x16 two years ago. I’ll just need to get the Ik multimedia setup. I have $4000 to spend. But hopefully it doesn’t take off. I still love stereo.
Hi Ed, Agree totaly. Atmos will have its place in the market in the same way as in Home Cinema Systems, Not all consumers or independant mixing engineers / companies have or can afford an Atmos Surround sound system let alone the space to allow for a correct set up. Stereo will still remain for the forseable future the main Consumer source for listening. Great content.
Spot on. Stereo is perfectly fine and adequate. What the industry SHOULD be doing is finding ways to get the public to listen to uncompressed audio on their devices, instead of trying to sell us something we didn't ask for.
Using the logic that I could use my good studio monitors for critical mix decisions and then create stems for panning in Atmos, I went looking for a consumer grade Atmos setup to avoid spending 4K on new studio monitors. There's only one problem: 7.1.4 consumer grade Atmos setups are virtually non-existent. And that told me everything I need to know about Atmos. The consumer demand is not there. People mostly listen to music on headphones and bluetooth speakers. This isn't the first time a large company has tried to push new technology. Remember Google Glass? What about VR? I'm still waiting for the Metaverse to take over too.... Big companies can push technology all they want. But at the end of the day, it is the consumer's dollar that will determine the future. Quite frankly, I do not think music listeners care about Atmos (or even stereo for that matter). Not only do they not care, it's not even on their radar. Groove and melody are king.
I watched/listened to this video a couple days ago and made a note to come back to it. This is the first video I've seen to discuss atmos froma a practical cost perspective. No one gets into the fact that the entry fee is sky high. $4000 on monitoring is no joke, especially when it's not super great overall. I have spent a small fortune setting my room up for accurate stereo mixing. On top of the treatment I have a Trinnov ST2. I am dumbfounded by what it would take to get accurate 7.4.1 in my room. Another factor that I haven't heard mentioned is that no one will ever own an atmos file. You can't practically rip one from analog. Anyone listening to atmos will have paid for it. If the industry grows into the format such that even a good stereo mix starts sounding like a 128kbps mp3 from 2002 then maybe it will have legs. That will change the music business if it takes off. As a studio owner and record producer I am not thrilled with the cost of atmos but if it delivers a desirable product that people are willing to pay for then it will be good for the music business and ultimately the artists. There has been more trickle down in the music business than most others.
But this is actually intended to be a trickle-up. It's the labels attempting to regain full control of the industry and lock the little guy or the aspiring artist out in the cold.
How many people you know with 12 speakers in the living room? Yeah, that's the percentage of users who asked for atmos. What people *actually* want? A mix which sounds right on your mono smarthphone. I mix music, not movies. Stereo is and will be the right standard forever, doesn't matter what Apple is trying to sell me.
It's a very cool technology that seems totally impractical in its current form. It's also pretty offensive to the art to force this upon everyone. This is not at all the same as going from Mono to Stereo. Also, the majority of Atmos mixes out there are old records Atmos-ized by interns and they are bad mixes-sometimes even with missing parts! I want to see audio technology advance and I don't live in the past, but I'm not sold.. They're doing R&D in realtime and we're the test subjects. What a practical Atmos implementation ultimately looks like isn't what we're seeing now.
Yep, it is I practice at the moment. I’m interested to see where it will develop though. Rumours are there’s way more advanced tech coming to enhance it but who’s starting those rumours I don’t know.
Totally agree, I just hate that argument the evangelists of atmos use. Mono to stereo was a natural progression not a forced one, we have 2 ears for gods sake….
Atmos will "stick" (not take over). The main reason is because there's no requirement for 7.1.4 speaker setup to listen to it. There are Atmos soundbars, Atmos built into phones and consumer devices, and no real requirement for multiple speakers. This is why it differs from all the old quadraphonic, 5.1, 7.1, where multiple speakers were required to hear them (minus "ProLogic" Stereo downmixes where the rear channels could be encoded and heard in the inverse). Atmos is a combination of all the older surround technologies, but it's better due to the object-oriented methodology. This increases compatibility across a multitude of different devices, so it's definitely going to stick.
It’s not a requirement for 7.1.4 to listen to it, you’re right, but it is a requirement to have a 7.1.4 system to become Dolby Atmos certified and work for record labels as an Atmos mix engineer.
@@EdThorne Ah yes, great point! I suppose that's one of the big barriers - getting all the smaller mix engineers (like myself) into it on a professional level.
@@PrincipalAudio It's just gatekeeping on an insane level. The market will never be big enough to accommodate all the little guys. It's an attempt to flush us out.
Atmos being a dolby property, is a hassle, everything feels like a hassle, consuming it, producing in it. Until atmos becomes freely available to everyone like a standard mp3 or wav file I dont see it becoming mainstream. Of course if Spotify demands it, then obviously we’re screwed and will be force to make the change. Let just hope that id that happens lower cost options for producers and mixers emerge. Mixing only in headphones is not ideal.
I agree. Let’s see what Spotify say. Atmos can’t be mixed in headphones, it just doesn’t work. I think a small niche of Atmos specific studios will emerge and cater for everyone who can’t be arsed with it but then we get into an interesting conversation about mixing credits. An equal credit for instrument location in a mix doesn’t equal the skills required for a quality mix.
Spatial Audio and Stereo are concepts.. Atmos is a brand, like I said above - that makes implementing problematic. I don't think Spotify will demand it - even if, you can just give them any mix, just converted to SA.
I don't think they'll let Atmos become a standard, because the last thing the industry needs, is us sharing it about again willy nilly. This is a high price technology carrot, just like 3D...was.
We're only screwed if we bow down to it. Ultimately, the consumer decides. And this is way out of reach for the overwhelming majority of consumers. We should do a Waves stunt on it. That should teach them a lesson or two.
To me this is just like back in the early 2010s where everything was 3D, gaming monitors, laptop monitors, TVs everything was about 3D. Where is 3D now? Nowhere to be found, as you had to wear glasses all the time in order to experience the effect, which were sold separately and severely overpriced. Needless to say that you had to buy a separate version of a particular blu-ray movie that was 3D compatible. As exciting as this new Atmos technology is on paper, I'm somewhat skeptical that the majority of listeners will be able to experience the effect as most people can't even afford a decent pair of headphones to begin with or a pair of monitors such as Yamaha HS set. This whole thing will generate a huge gap, between already big and established studios and small and upcoming mixing engineers as the smaller guy won't be able to afford all of the equipment needed in order to get in there. At the end of the day the average music listener won't even notice the difference to begin with. Just like they won't notice that 1.5 db cut that you've made on the snare track.
@@EdThorne Spotify has a major lead and I don't think they would like already established artist songs being thrown in the trash 🗑and told to Atmos their songs. Plus we the consumer have not got 12 speakers especially none in the ceiling making their home look like a space ship.
Don't forget Antelope Audio! Their new 32 channel Synergy Core will handle 9.1.4 and leave room for your outboard gear ;-) As for Atmos... everybody overlooks the most obvious venue - your car!
Good shout on the Antelope. That will sound mega. As for Atmos/immersive in the car… I tried it in LA and the balances of the tracks were all messed up depending on where you sat. It doesn’t work IMHO.
A lot of people listen to music on their phones. Like, just out of the speakers on their phones. That means there's more people listening in mono than in Dolby.
I agree with your conclusions Ed I don't see this taking off like they would like it to I have nuendo as I have considered this more from a cinematic music production point of view but for standard music production consumers will be slow to adopt anything that requires a Dolby Atmos decoder . As you say it may well be a niche market but the vast majority of music being generated will continue to be Stereo for the forseable future . If the big players decide they only want Dolby atmos mixes another platform will simply pop up and take their place . No doubt a clever innovation but I can't see myself investing in it any time soon the cost is difficult to justify much less the points made above.
Can't help but think that this is just a push to sell more speakers and for Apple to sell more Airpods. I don't dispute its quality and immersion but mixing in Atmos is incredibly expensive. How is anyone starting going to conceivably position and buy 9 speakers?
Amots is object based, so there isn't really a minimum for Atmos. But the to differentiate it from previous dolby formats, you need at least two speakers in the ceiling. 7.1.2 i typically considered the bed. But you could to 5.1.2, or 5.1.4, even, so there is no starting point av 7.1.4, if anything that would be 7.1.2 in that case, but like I said you can go below it. I think the max for the consumer format is something like 32 channels, but there is no consumer processor that handles anything near that. And all those 32 channels there are full frequency channels. Because it is object based the processor that decodes the signal will put the sound in the closest speakers for that position, and since there is sound intended to come above the head, I would recommend always having ceiling speakers or speakers mounted on the side wall near the ceiling at the right angle. But in theaory, you could do 11.1.0, to go beyond 7.1 making use of the the signals to create front wide and surround back wides. I would recommend anyone building a Atmos speakers system to have 6 ceiling speakers to be sure to be able to get correct translation of both x.1.2 and x.1.4 sounds, as in the case of x.1.2 the default speakers position that the reverb/upscaler outputs, is two speakers above the head, while in x.1.4, the output is for ceiling speakers in front and behind the listener, and the virtualization of 4 ceiling speakers does not match up with having two above the head, so with less than 6 speakers above the listener you can't be sure that the sound comes from the intended placement, if it is sound that is located, though a lot of the sound will be Atmospheric sounds and will translate ok between the two different configurations, but any moving sound will not. the 1 in atmos is the subwoofer, and it will stay as 1 for consumers at least. In a normal room, you can't hear direction of audio below at a certain frequency, and that is why it is safe to have a single subwoofer to handle up to 120Hz, and even beyond that. If you hear the direction of a bass speaker at 120Hz or below, the sound you hear the direction of, is either because of resonance in the subwoofer cabinet creating a sound a bit or well above that, or something outside it generating sound (could be because of the subwoofer placement, that causes the air movement outputted to resonate against a surface, so you have to make sure it has the amount of room it needs, diffferent construction of subwoofers may need more or less room to the closest objects, but typically it will be vibrations making causing something to move and generate sound) Some processors can handle more than one sub, but Atmos does not code for more than one sub. Why you would want more than one, is to be able to room correct each and everyone of them, and then measure the combined output, to get the best possible bass, with the least amount of room issues.
great common sense point of views. it’s hard enough time getting fans of mine to listen to my music on stereo speakers, let alone an atmos system. the fact that corporations are aggressively pushing this down my throats, makes me go into rage against he machine mode “f@ck you, i won’t do what you tell me”. hehe. great stuff and i look forward to seeing how this develops for your work.
Didn't they learn from sa cd and dvd audio in the 90s? We had this already in the 90s, consumers told us with their wallet that mp3 quality on earbuds was the winner.... Atmos for music should remain in the experimental realm.
To get around the insane equipment purchases and being banned from Apple or Spotify, I have thought about just mixing my stuff in stereo and then take it over in the atmos format and just mute the atmos channels. lol. It would be an Atmos file but would still sound good on myriad of stereo and mono systems. Only down fall would be that it won't be very loud due to the LUFS specification for immersive files. Maybe there is a hack that we need to be thinking about until we can see through the clouds of this forced technology and have the money to outfit our studio.
Well Stereo is a physical format. Dolby Atmos - is a company, with a brand name, so this will always be a bit harder to implement across the world. Sony has 360 etc...Overall, I think the term Spatial Audio would make more sense and many use it. It shouldn't be tied to one license holder or plugin maker.
What I honestly hate is a couple of things....1. I think it's cool. I've listened in my AirPods Pro 2. But as a "home studio". who does all of my own work, I can't afford an Atmos setup. I'd be looking at probably at least $5k to set it all up. That's pricing out a lot of indie artists. I just don't have the money to spend to do that and I don't foresee having the money anytime soon. I know I could I could "mix with AirPod Pro Max but I know that's not a long term solution. 2. I do know that a friend of mine got playlisted last month on an apple playlist and his mix was not an atmos mix but I guess maybe it wasn't a top 10 playlist. So I don't know how all of that works, but I am glad they're not requiring all of the mixes to be atmos. I think if that happens a lot of indie artists would be in trouble.
@@massivebeatzz You could buy consumer grade home theatre speakers in theory yeh but you still need phase alignment technology somewhere in the chain. And, surely you’d rather have good speakers?
@@EdThorne I personally think this is going in the wrong way.... corporations dictating how to mix a song/music when creativity and making better music and songs should be the goal, thats always been the driving force of music... not spreading it all out in some atmos way for a " better experience" ... we need to focus on making better music.
I don't really appreciate the ''atmos'' in apple music. It sounds more live but hardly better than a proper stereo mix. Otherwise it's very gimmicky for music, using it for the sake of using it. For movies etc, yeah that's different. And in the mainstream household? Hardly feasable. 5.1 is basically failed as well.
Yep. I think the format is in its infancy though. I see the potential but don’t think it will become mainstream - but then I’m the guy who thought UA-cam was a dumb idea in 2006…. 🙄
I agree totally that until everyone has the ability to listen to a Dolby Atmos mix in reasonably priced headphones/earbuds, it's not going to take off. The incredibly VAST majority of people are not going to buy all those speakers and gear. Also, we were just getting to the point where "bedroom producers" were able to create music/mixes that rival (or surpasses) what the labels are doing. This gives them a leg up...again. I don't think it's a conspiracy or anything like that. It's just business, unfortunately.
90% of the listeners hear music thru headphones and not thru 12 speakers. Hence if Atmos don't want to be the quadriphony of the 3rd millenium they need to developp a convincing binaural rendering which is not the case yet when I write this. And remember, 5.1 is available for decades and never succeed in music. Personnaly as a composer I would be realy interested by the immersive audio and its new palette of expression and my DAW is Atmos compliant but I'm definitely not ready to jump in the wagon. The time will be the judge, as alway.
I'm going to make a prediction, here goes.................. Behringer brings out a full 7.1.4 ATMOS system for £2,000 ish, an interface with 12 outputs, all 11 speakers, plus a sub, all of the stands and cabling. Will it be great quality? knowing Behringer, probably better than we could expect 🙃 If any company can do this, it is going to be Behringer
It is obvious what is going on here as the push is by record companies. They want to ice out the independent artists, engineers and bedroom studios because the cost of admission to the dance will be out of reach. Since Apple is a major player in streaming it is no surprise they adopted this approach outright as they are notoriously big brother. This also is the clap back to the question that is asked incessantly about purchasing gear of will someone on crappy earbuds notice the difference. Well sir to those who ask it, the decision is about to be made for you by corporate force because corporations follow each other's leads. For years record companies have lost millions because of independent artists, bedroom studios and the like and they intend on recovering that cash and once again reestablishing themselves as the gatekeepers to the music industry.
I agree the labels seem to be jumping on the opportunity (created by Apple not the labels) to re-establish themselves as the gate keepers. I don’t think they’re cynically trying to put me and you out of studio work but it is some heavy dick waving.
@@EdThorne good point. That makes sense too. I hope I'm overshooting the situation and it does not come down to that. Funny thing is I'm still trying to master mixing in stereo and here they come with atmos lololol
Fully agree. This is what 'corporate' is all about. If Spotify goes the same route, I wouldn't discard other platforms to appear and fill the huge void left by these greedy power mongers. The overwhelming majority of consumers cannot afford this and most couldn't care less anyway. Give me some decent music and keep your silly gimmicks for the nerds and maniacs.
Stereo Music will Never be Dead. The reasons why Dolby Atmos is being pushed is to sell more Speakers, More expensive AVRs and so Music Executives can sell existing music again in Dolly Atmos. The Public is Not excited about Dolby Atmos. Do even 1% of homes have Dolby Atmos. Dolby Atmos is fine at the Movie Theater but it is Ridiculous at home. The only people buying Dolby Atmos systems are a very minuscule amount of people who are Home Theater Geeks.
The short no it’s not. Another medium but Stereo is here to stay. Besides being an eye sore in most consumer spaces and even with sound bars sounding all phasey. Bottom line customers won’t want the price point.
As an Customer i don‘t See any benefit for Listening to music in Atmos cause only a Handful of music stiles are ready to giving benefits in that way -> all Kinds of clubmusic Don‘t given you any benefit … only if you‘re ging to a specialised Concert Venue where the Whole concert is made for atmos you‘ll getingelt something - But in this case it would be much more a live listening to Video & Light Show as to a True live concert … … atmos is a really good Thing for Cinemas + -> But you can‘t oder it really good in a Club with dj‘s (its impracticable for a DJ to do his Gig and mix atmos too for the Situation in this club) … … as an Producer for all stiles of Electronic clubmusic i‘ll Be asked for Atmos only from the Guys which are involved in Ambient …
If they want to be serious about it. ATMOS should be installed in cars by default. Reference studio monitors are overpriced. I’ve done great mixes in some basic M-Audio monitors. There should be a standard for mixing, like how the industry had loudness war, it’s not a problem anymore because now there is a standard. So… This requires education, lab work (trial and error) and in about 5 years (with new headphone technology) it can become a standard
A lot of high-end cars (BMW, Audio, etc) have Atmos as standard (this will filter down as all technology does). Also, musicians and studios have started (I have on good authority) to record in surround sound (16 mics on a single MONO source.. (so 16 on top of 16 drums mics...)). This is frightening, lol!
@@EdThorne even a 5 piece band can already use 60+ channels on stereo. When you add layering, effects, backing vocals, I’ve seen 98 channels go to stereo on a small 9 piece band… I can’t imagine what it will be for ATMOS
Yeh, I was actually thinking about this concept further yesterday and realised no mix engineer in the world is going to touch 16 channels of immersive files for ONE sound source! It’s just not sustainable. Some artists may insist on it as a passion project but I hope they’re prepared to pay the engineers for the extra time.
I just want to know WHO THE FUCK has their house or room wired for 15 speakers? And who is listening to music in such a room? Most music is heard on earbuds or bt speakers or car speakers... The industry ALREADY TRIED to convince consumers that "HD audio" was necessary, we had said and we had dvd audio. And again it turned CONSUMERS WERE HAPPY WITH MP3 AND EARBUDS. I haven't met one person that said they were interested or wanted surround sound music.... So I have to wonder what Apple is after here. Are the in bed with Dolby trying to sell hardware? And I imagine if this remains, stereo really being the standard, we'll find a way to convert stereo to atmos with no work done just for the stupid requirement.
Its a good, but bad idea. People who listen to music listen in stereo. Unless you are in a club...that means not hearing the music fully, or cinema which from my experience is rubbish at home I don't need it. So its being pushed by the tech and business but where will they earn revenue for this venture. Nice idea but its not for everyone.
This is a fad. As long as the consumers don't ask for it Sweetwater and the other pushers of gear are fighting a lost cause. For movies, yep. This is a thing. But for music, why on earth do you want the band spread around you? If this is such a good idea, why on eart isn't bands doing this instead of standing on a stage "playing in stereo"? Man, how stupid do they think the consumers are??
I don't like the sound of binaural Atmos headphones. It's syrupy, slightly phasey with too much unfocused ambiance. Stereo is so much better on headphones, IME.
conventional music is the worst content for that audio format. Immersive sound (Spatial, Atmos, ambisonic, etc etc) is amazing in multi-speaker array setup, in theaters, museums, movies, festivals, events, sound art..... But actual commercial music not. music have to be re-thing as a space/time composition in the begining of the recording. At the end 99,9999999999999999999999% of the listener will only hear stereo mix down of a 360 marketing new brand hype sound that is irrevelante nonsense. Music record is the idea of taking a picture of a musical performance and you can listen it at home, it already a mix down of the real live experience. but with immersive sound concept, imagine that an artist create a 40x40 feet monumental painting that no-body will event see it for real, but every one get a 480x480 lofi pixeled version on streaming platform.
This seems yet just another push by humans to over-optimise "well if we can push the limit to stereo, how much further can we go up the S curve before viability/diminishing return becomes a waste of time and money?" . Mono was fine then stereo came along, then 4.1 5.1 6.1 etc... etc... when stereo was probably enough. If it aint broke, don't fix it. People can barely sit through a short tik tok or a youtube video, they're not going to bother with this
I've said it before, Atmos won't stop stereo from being the main way most consumers listen to music. It won't live up to the hype once it has been properly been pushed onto the customers. I agree with you, it will be a niche market thing and won't be widely adopted by the majority of consumers.
There’s a lot of engineers hoping you’re right.
Imagine every home with 12 speakers in their living room lol Maybe for the rich in their mansions but if the market is the rich people then I see the music industry dying out. Atmos is one way forward maybe in-car system but you will be driving not listening for where the reverb is coming from. For Home Theatre definitely yes. I went to a cinema where they have Dolby Atmos and I tell you it didn't sound half as good as stereo. It sounded empty! I was thinking maybe they need to turn it up a bit, You couldn't hear the dialogue so well.
I think we need to get back to better songs, progression in creativity of " music " . Atmos is not the answer to " great music" ... and Apple and the likes " pushing " Atmos is the #1 reason I personally am running from conforming to this idea.
Exactly this, Ace! Well said!
People listen to music with headphones, not stereo speakers, so audio should be binaural at this point, not stereo. There is a difference, even if you don't use it to place audio behind the listener, something you can do with binaural audio, the whole imaging differs, to get audio in the right place from the intended placement in stereo you have to mix differently, and also bianural allows for a wider soundstage, and that can help when mixing.
As Long as we still have Pair of ears......STEREO WILL NEVER DIE......
I´ve said it many times in other channels, this is just a way for Apple and Spotify to make the gap even bigger for independent artists and engineers, and it really doesn´t add much to certain genres such as rock and metal (Who wants their bass or kick flying around the ceiling?), at the end you love how your favorite bands sound live in a stereo array. I would like it if it´s for creative purposes, but making it a rule so independent artists can have the same few streams really sucks IMO.
Agreed!
Absolutely. And they're counting on marketing it before the boomer generation passes away. The goal seems to be to rehash everything that was recorded in the 60's and 70's in a new format so they can cash in on it. They might be in for a unpleasant surprise, though. I don't think many boomers would care much for all the gimmicks. To us, it was about the music. And that's pretty much gone.
Agree!! No one has been able to explain in simple terms why immersive (ATMOS or not) is a better listening experience for most consumer music, unless you are going for a psychedelic mix. It’s all a hype cycle by manufacturers and platforms, trying to drive an equipment replacement cycle. (“Hi” from Produce Like A Pro member)
Hi fellow PLAPer, the separation you can achieve with Atmos is amazing with the surround system, less so with bi-natural, but yeh it is industry hype over consumer demand.
@@EdThorne yes I don’t doubt that sound separation can be achieved. The unanswered question is: to what end? I do a lot of projects using Virtual Sound Stage, so I am very keen on creating a rich and subtle sonic image with stereo speakers (virtual live). But I don’t know anyone else in PLAPA doing the same. Likewise in commercial recording. Everyone uses the basics: pan + volume + reverb. From this I conclude that there is no artistic interest from producers or musicians for anything beyond simple stereo.
@@russellcameronthomas2116 Reverbs using atmos will place the refelection as close to the correct position as possible, making them a lot more natural, than just a reverb coming from front speakers.
Mixing with the typical stere-pan, should be avoided today, as most serious listening is made on headphones, and stereo speaker based mixing, does not translate to headphones.
And nearfield monitor mixes in a treated studio never translated that well in to stereo systems in a home, so you will be able to get a lot closer to how the listener will hear it you make mixes for headphones.
This is interesting, Jon. Are you mixing reverbs in bi-naural?
@@TheJonHolstein yes, I believe accurate reverb placement is a potential benefit of ATMOS. Maybe the only benefit if all the main music elements are intended to be in front of the listener. But that would require at least 4 stems for every reverb or maybe 6 - left, right, top, back, and maybe behind-left and behind-right. Related: why aren’t there any tutorial videos on reverb placement in ATMOS? My guess: because no one has figured out how to do it well with the “3D object” paradigm. One conceivable solution: use a plugin to generate the reverb objects, similar to what Virtual Sound Stage does with stereo speakers. If I am missing something, please let me know.
The only people discussing atmos are producers and engineers. I feel like that alone speaks volumes
Great point!
Spot on!
One of the clearest overviews of this topic I’ve seen! Well done good sir!
Thanks, hopefully it was insightful.
I think you hit the nail on the head comparing it to 3d cinema but I'd say it's like 3d tvs. It'll be cool to show off and possibly watch something every once in a while, but most likely won't be the standard. I usually listen to music while I work out. I'm focused on a lot of things I don't think hearing sounds and music pan around me would be as good as they want you to believe cause they're pushing it so hard. Like you said a niche hi Fi market that cares about it and is passionate about it, but not for regular people who just buy cheap stuff off Amazon.
Sometimes the movement is distracting, too. I fear it’s another production trick to make for bad songs.
@@EdThorne But accurate reverb reflection positioning, voice of god effects, and atmospheric/environment effects as well as positioning the listener in what feels like the center of a live recording in a recording room, can all be very nice effects, without any movement.
The issue with Atmos is that headphone playback is an afterthought, that isn't well implemented. We really needed a format that would be able to make sounds in headphones sound accurate compared to mixes done on nearfield monitors in a treated room, that is unlike any consumer really ever had, and the translation of mixes from speakers to headphones are horrible.
@@TheJonHolstein that's true I could actually see it used really well there. Like as if you're in a recording booth with an artist for an intimate emotional track. And it starts to open up into something big as the track takes you somewhere else. But not crazy panning. Like ok now you're in another room as a story is unfolding. Very niche and case specific but it'll wow people who experience it.
Totally agree. Isn’t Atmos just cooperate stuff?..a way for Apple and Co to keep you on the chain? 3D for your ears requires more speakers in your home. Most consumers wanna keep it simple, right?
Exactly. The consumer wants convenience and cheap (besides a small niche of industry pros and audiophiles). The idea of increased separation in a mix does appeal to me though.
@@EdThorneI think most of my friends would describe me as an audiophile and an ideal candidate for this. I have a full Dolby Atmos setup for Film and a dedicated stereo setup for Music. I've tried ATMOS music through Apple TV and its...well... very hit and miss. The standard is all over the place. In stereo...I just know where I am. The whole shift surprises me. Even most engineers I know, aren't audiophiles, with just modest setups at home and the young folk have their phone speakers, so they don't care. I reckon the studios are being fed a lot of FOMO here, so unless you wanna get into movie mixes, as an engineer, I wouldn't spend a lot of money on kitting your studio out.
@@basilandrigsby Yes but your music, may be in Atmos. I would like it at a restaurant while I'm eating or yes the cinema but at home, the piano swirls around while I try to listen to Chopin would be a bit annoying. Then again I do like Technology definitely in my car would be nice.
@@shan5445 Car is certainly a good place for Atmos. But who's in the sweet spot? Just the driver?..and why is he listening to Chopin? No Pantera?
@@shan5445 Now imagine hearing the piano like you were in a concert hall. The piano itself doesn't swirl at all - but the reflection signals would come from just the right places (sides, back, ceiling) at the right times. I guess that's not achievable with stereo or 5.1 surround.
I think you are mistaken about Atmos. Here in my room it sounds incredible. It also sounds very good in binaural and you can listen on regular headphones with the right settings. I am finding mixing in stereo now is a bit disappointing after mixing in Atmos. I predict the technology will improve with headphones and other listening devices, as well.
I’ve heard it in Apples AirPod Max’s and besides the lead vocal moving, the binaural is nowhere near Atmos. So, the technology is still miles away from being relevant to consumers.
@@EdThorne I agree that binaural is not Atmos by a long stretch, but it does create a lot of space and movement, if the mixer wants. I think it will improve. Atmos in cars should be good, since the head is in one place. I don't think it is going away.
I agree with everything you've said here... barring the release of a new type of headphone. Even then, I don't think it will really ever take off.
I think the headphones would have to be huge over ears with multiple drivers physically set apart to replicate the feeling. It just can’t work with single dynamic drivers each side.
Im glad I bought my Apollo x16 two years ago. I’ll just need to get the Ik multimedia setup. I have $4000 to spend. But hopefully it doesn’t take off. I still love stereo.
Hi Ed, Agree totaly. Atmos will have its place in the market in the same way as in Home Cinema Systems, Not all consumers or independant mixing engineers / companies have or can afford an Atmos Surround sound system let alone the space to allow for a correct set up. Stereo will still remain for the forseable future the main Consumer source for listening. Great content.
I think so, too. Thanks, Trevor.
Spot on. Stereo is perfectly fine and adequate. What the industry SHOULD be doing is finding ways to get the public to listen to uncompressed audio on their devices, instead of trying to sell us something we didn't ask for.
@@kadiummusic Exactly.
Nice one Ed.
I think it's more fore Cinema and Stereo will be number one fore a loooooong time🤘
Fingers crossed.
Using the logic that I could use my good studio monitors for critical mix decisions and then create stems for panning in Atmos, I went looking for a consumer grade Atmos setup to avoid spending 4K on new studio monitors. There's only one problem: 7.1.4 consumer grade Atmos setups are virtually non-existent. And that told me everything I need to know about Atmos. The consumer demand is not there. People mostly listen to music on headphones and bluetooth speakers. This isn't the first time a large company has tried to push new technology. Remember Google Glass? What about VR? I'm still waiting for the Metaverse to take over too.... Big companies can push technology all they want. But at the end of the day, it is the consumer's dollar that will determine the future. Quite frankly, I do not think music listeners care about Atmos (or even stereo for that matter). Not only do they not care, it's not even on their radar. Groove and melody are king.
Yep, all true.
I watched/listened to this video a couple days ago and made a note to come back to it. This is the first video I've seen to discuss atmos froma a practical cost perspective. No one gets into the fact that the entry fee is sky high. $4000 on monitoring is no joke, especially when it's not super great overall. I have spent a small fortune setting my room up for accurate stereo mixing. On top of the treatment I have a Trinnov ST2. I am dumbfounded by what it would take to get accurate 7.4.1 in my room. Another factor that I haven't heard mentioned is that no one will ever own an atmos file. You can't practically rip one from analog. Anyone listening to atmos will have paid for it. If the industry grows into the format such that even a good stereo mix starts sounding like a 128kbps mp3 from 2002 then maybe it will have legs. That will change the music business if it takes off. As a studio owner and record producer I am not thrilled with the cost of atmos but if it delivers a desirable product that people are willing to pay for then it will be good for the music business and ultimately the artists. There has been more trickle down in the music business than most others.
But this is actually intended to be a trickle-up. It's the labels attempting to regain full control of the industry and lock the little guy or the aspiring artist out in the cold.
How many people you know with 12 speakers in the living room?
Yeah, that's the percentage of users who asked for atmos.
What people *actually* want?
A mix which sounds right on your mono smarthphone.
I mix music, not movies. Stereo is and will be the right standard forever, doesn't matter what Apple is trying to sell me.
Bang on!
It's a very cool technology that seems totally impractical in its current form. It's also pretty offensive to the art to force this upon everyone. This is not at all the same as going from Mono to Stereo. Also, the majority of Atmos mixes out there are old records Atmos-ized by interns and they are bad mixes-sometimes even with missing parts! I want to see audio technology advance and I don't live in the past, but I'm not sold.. They're doing R&D in realtime and we're the test subjects. What a practical Atmos implementation ultimately looks like isn't what we're seeing now.
Yep, it is I practice at the moment. I’m interested to see where it will develop though. Rumours are there’s way more advanced tech coming to enhance it but who’s starting those rumours I don’t know.
Totally agree, I just hate that argument the evangelists of atmos use. Mono to stereo was a natural progression not a forced one, we have 2 ears for gods sake….
Atmos will "stick" (not take over). The main reason is because there's no requirement for 7.1.4 speaker setup to listen to it. There are Atmos soundbars, Atmos built into phones and consumer devices, and no real requirement for multiple speakers. This is why it differs from all the old quadraphonic, 5.1, 7.1, where multiple speakers were required to hear them (minus "ProLogic" Stereo downmixes where the rear channels could be encoded and heard in the inverse). Atmos is a combination of all the older surround technologies, but it's better due to the object-oriented methodology. This increases compatibility across a multitude of different devices, so it's definitely going to stick.
It’s not a requirement for 7.1.4 to listen to it, you’re right, but it is a requirement to have a 7.1.4 system to become Dolby Atmos certified and work for record labels as an Atmos mix engineer.
@@EdThorne Ah yes, great point! I suppose that's one of the big barriers - getting all the smaller mix engineers (like myself) into it on a professional level.
@Ed Thorne Music Production not really there are people mixing Atmos on headphones for Record labels
@@PrincipalAudio It's just gatekeeping on an insane level. The market will never be big enough to accommodate all the little guys. It's an attempt to flush us out.
Atmos being a dolby property, is a hassle, everything feels like a hassle, consuming it, producing in it. Until atmos becomes freely available to everyone like a standard mp3 or wav file I dont see it becoming mainstream. Of course if Spotify demands it, then obviously we’re screwed and will be force to make the change. Let just hope that id that happens lower cost options for producers and mixers emerge. Mixing only in headphones is not ideal.
I agree. Let’s see what Spotify say. Atmos can’t be mixed in headphones, it just doesn’t work. I think a small niche of Atmos specific studios will emerge and cater for everyone who can’t be arsed with it but then we get into an interesting conversation about mixing credits. An equal credit for instrument location in a mix doesn’t equal the skills required for a quality mix.
Spatial Audio and Stereo are concepts.. Atmos is a brand, like I said above - that makes implementing problematic. I don't think Spotify will demand it - even if, you can just give them any mix, just converted to SA.
I don't think they'll let Atmos become a standard, because the last thing the industry needs, is us sharing it about again willy nilly. This is a high price technology carrot, just like 3D...was.
We're only screwed if we bow down to it. Ultimately, the consumer decides. And this is way out of reach for the overwhelming majority of consumers. We should do a Waves stunt on it. That should teach them a lesson or two.
To me this is just like back in the early 2010s where everything was 3D, gaming monitors, laptop monitors, TVs everything was about 3D.
Where is 3D now? Nowhere to be found, as you had to wear glasses all the time in order to experience the effect, which were sold separately and severely overpriced. Needless to say that you had to buy a separate version of a particular blu-ray movie that was 3D compatible.
As exciting as this new Atmos technology is on paper, I'm somewhat skeptical that the majority of listeners will be able to experience the effect as most people can't even afford a decent pair of headphones to begin with or a pair of monitors such as Yamaha HS set. This whole thing will generate a huge gap, between already big and established studios and small and upcoming mixing engineers as the smaller guy won't be able to afford all of the equipment needed in order to get in there. At the end of the day the average music listener won't even notice the difference to begin with. Just like they won't notice that 1.5 db cut that you've made on the snare track.
Haha. I’m glad you noticed the snare change😜 But yeh I agree with you. It settle as a small niche - unless Spotify get on it.
@@EdThorne Spotify has a major lead and I don't think they would like already established artist songs being thrown in the trash 🗑and told to Atmos their songs. Plus we the consumer have not got 12 speakers especially none in the ceiling making their home look like a space ship.
Don't forget Antelope Audio! Their new 32 channel Synergy Core will handle 9.1.4 and leave room for your outboard gear ;-) As for Atmos... everybody overlooks the most obvious venue - your car!
Good shout on the Antelope. That will sound mega. As for Atmos/immersive in the car… I tried it in LA and the balances of the tracks were all messed up depending on where you sat. It doesn’t work IMHO.
Completely agree with you there Ed.
Cheers, Robert.
A lot of people listen to music on their phones. Like, just out of the speakers on their phones. That means there's more people listening in mono than in Dolby.
Ha. Very true. If you have an iPhone, try turning it sideways, they’re now stereo when you do that. Some hope at least 🤣
I agree with your conclusions Ed I don't see this taking off like they would like it to I have nuendo as I have considered this more from a cinematic music production point of view but for standard music production consumers will be slow to adopt anything that requires a Dolby Atmos decoder . As you say it may well be a niche market but the vast majority of music being generated will continue to be Stereo for the forseable future . If the big players decide they only want Dolby atmos mixes another platform will simply pop up and take their place . No doubt a clever innovation but I can't see myself investing in it any time soon the cost is difficult to justify much less the points made above.
This seems to be the general consensus.
Can't help but think that this is just a push to sell more speakers and for Apple to sell more Airpods. I don't dispute its quality and immersion but mixing in Atmos is incredibly expensive. How is anyone starting going to conceivably position and buy 9 speakers?
12 speakers. I mentioned I’d need 9 more to get the Atmos certification required 7.4.1 set up. Crazy. Definitely industry driven.
Amots is object based, so there isn't really a minimum for Atmos. But the to differentiate it from previous dolby formats, you need at least two speakers in the ceiling. 7.1.2 i typically considered the bed. But you could to 5.1.2, or 5.1.4, even, so there is no starting point av 7.1.4, if anything that would be 7.1.2 in that case, but like I said you can go below it. I think the max for the consumer format is something like 32 channels, but there is no consumer processor that handles anything near that. And all those 32 channels there are full frequency channels. Because it is object based the processor that decodes the signal will put the sound in the closest speakers for that position, and since there is sound intended to come above the head, I would recommend always having ceiling speakers or speakers mounted on the side wall near the ceiling at the right angle. But in theaory, you could do 11.1.0, to go beyond 7.1 making use of the the signals to create front wide and surround back wides.
I would recommend anyone building a Atmos speakers system to have 6 ceiling speakers to be sure to be able to get correct translation of both x.1.2 and x.1.4 sounds, as in the case of x.1.2 the default speakers position that the reverb/upscaler outputs, is two speakers above the head, while in x.1.4, the output is for ceiling speakers in front and behind the listener, and the virtualization of 4 ceiling speakers does not match up with having two above the head, so with less than 6 speakers above the listener you can't be sure that the sound comes from the intended placement, if it is sound that is located, though a lot of the sound will be Atmospheric sounds and will translate ok between the two different configurations, but any moving sound will not.
the 1 in atmos is the subwoofer, and it will stay as 1 for consumers at least. In a normal room, you can't hear direction of audio below at a certain frequency, and that is why it is safe to have a single subwoofer to handle up to 120Hz, and even beyond that. If you hear the direction of a bass speaker at 120Hz or below, the sound you hear the direction of, is either because of resonance in the subwoofer cabinet creating a sound a bit or well above that, or something outside it generating sound (could be because of the subwoofer placement, that causes the air movement outputted to resonate against a surface, so you have to make sure it has the amount of room it needs, diffferent construction of subwoofers may need more or less room to the closest objects, but typically it will be vibrations making causing something to move and generate sound)
Some processors can handle more than one sub, but Atmos does not code for more than one sub.
Why you would want more than one, is to be able to room correct each and everyone of them, and then measure the combined output, to get the best possible bass, with the least amount of room issues.
great common sense point of views. it’s hard enough time getting fans of mine to listen to my music on stereo speakers, let alone an atmos system. the fact that corporations are aggressively pushing this down my throats, makes me go into rage against he machine mode “f@ck you, i won’t do what you tell me”. hehe. great stuff and i look forward to seeing how this develops for your work.
Yeh, Atmos doesn’t interest me yet but loads of people are jumping on it.
Didn't they learn from sa cd and dvd audio in the 90s? We had this already in the 90s, consumers told us with their wallet that mp3 quality on earbuds was the winner.... Atmos for music should remain in the experimental realm.
To get around the insane equipment purchases and being banned from Apple or Spotify, I have thought about just mixing my stuff in stereo and then take it over in the atmos format and just mute the atmos channels. lol. It would be an Atmos file but would still sound good on myriad of stereo and mono systems. Only down fall would be that it won't be very loud due to the LUFS specification for immersive files. Maybe there is a hack that we need to be thinking about until we can see through the clouds of this forced technology and have the money to outfit our studio.
Well Stereo is a physical format. Dolby Atmos - is a company, with a brand name, so this will always be a bit harder to implement across the world. Sony has 360 etc...Overall, I think the term Spatial Audio would make more sense and many use it. It shouldn't be tied to one license holder or plugin maker.
It’ll be a survival of the best like Yahoo Vs Google.
What I honestly hate is a couple of things....1. I think it's cool. I've listened in my AirPods Pro 2. But as a "home studio". who does all of my own work, I can't afford an Atmos setup. I'd be looking at probably at least $5k to set it all up. That's pricing out a lot of indie artists. I just don't have the money to spend to do that and I don't foresee having the money anytime soon. I know I could I could "mix with AirPod Pro Max but I know that's not a long term solution. 2. I do know that a friend of mine got playlisted last month on an apple playlist and his mix was not an atmos mix but I guess maybe it wasn't a top 10 playlist. So I don't know how all of that works, but I am glad they're not requiring all of the mixes to be atmos. I think if that happens a lot of indie artists would be in trouble.
7 speakers arent 5K. that can be bought for 1000. Consumers buy them for 250. It works.
Oh, then we’re all fucked. With an X16 and the IK iLoud set up, you’re looking about £8000/$9000 (plus cabling) 🥴
@@massivebeatzz You could buy consumer grade home theatre speakers in theory yeh but you still need phase alignment technology somewhere in the chain. And, surely you’d rather have good speakers?
@@massivebeatzz I was figuring with the new interface as well. Because I don’t have an interface with that many outs.
@@EdThorne I personally think this is going in the wrong way.... corporations dictating how to mix a song/music when creativity and making better music and songs should be the goal, thats always been the driving force of music... not spreading it all out in some atmos way for a " better experience" ... we need to focus on making better music.
Nice review
Thanks, Winston.
I don't really appreciate the ''atmos'' in apple music. It sounds more live but hardly better than a proper stereo mix. Otherwise it's very gimmicky for music, using it for the sake of using it. For movies etc, yeah that's different. And in the mainstream household? Hardly feasable. 5.1 is basically failed as well.
Yep. I think the format is in its infancy though. I see the potential but don’t think it will become mainstream - but then I’m the guy who thought UA-cam was a dumb idea in 2006…. 🙄
@@EdThorne But YT was always easily accessible, and eve free if you're not into HQ. Atmos is definitely prohibitive.
I agree totally that until everyone has the ability to listen to a Dolby Atmos mix in reasonably priced headphones/earbuds, it's not going to take off. The incredibly VAST majority of people are not going to buy all those speakers and gear. Also, we were just getting to the point where "bedroom producers" were able to create music/mixes that rival (or surpasses) what the labels are doing. This gives them a leg up...again. I don't think it's a conspiracy or anything like that. It's just business, unfortunately.
What about headphones? Unless they make huge headphones with 4 or 6 tiny speakers in them, stereo will always be around.
Exactly this.
90% of the listeners hear music thru headphones and not thru 12 speakers.
Hence if Atmos don't want to be the quadriphony of the 3rd millenium they need to developp a convincing binaural rendering which is not the case yet when I write this.
And remember, 5.1 is available for decades and never succeed in music.
Personnaly as a composer I would be realy interested by the immersive audio and its new palette of expression and my DAW is Atmos compliant but I'm definitely not ready to jump in the wagon. The time will be the judge, as alway.
I'm going to make a prediction, here goes..................
Behringer brings out a full 7.1.4 ATMOS system for £2,000 ish,
an interface with 12 outputs, all 11 speakers, plus a sub, all of the stands and cabling.
Will it be great quality? knowing Behringer, probably better than we could expect 🙃
If any company can do this, it is going to be Behringer
Ooooh, interesting prediction. I feel Behringer and Focusrite are the brands to do this. That’d be fun.
@@EdThorne Focusrite Pro Already has interfaces that can handle an Atmos speaker array.
I hear the stress in your voice when you talk about the cost and the extra hours that you need to work.
It is obvious what is going on here as the push is by record companies. They want to ice out the independent artists, engineers and bedroom studios because the cost of admission to the dance will be out of reach. Since Apple is a major player in streaming it is no surprise they adopted this approach outright as they are notoriously big brother. This also is the clap back to the question that is asked incessantly about purchasing gear of will someone on crappy earbuds notice the difference. Well sir to those who ask it, the decision is about to be made for you by corporate force because corporations follow each other's leads. For years record companies have lost millions because of independent artists, bedroom studios and the like and they intend on recovering that cash and once again reestablishing themselves as the gatekeepers to the music industry.
I agree the labels seem to be jumping on the opportunity (created by Apple not the labels) to re-establish themselves as the gate keepers. I don’t think they’re cynically trying to put me and you out of studio work but it is some heavy dick waving.
@@EdThorne good point. That makes sense too. I hope I'm overshooting the situation and it does not come down to that. Funny thing is I'm still trying to master mixing in stereo and here they come with atmos lololol
Haha. Yeh, I’m the same! 🤣 One thing at a time lads 🤣
Fully agree. This is what 'corporate' is all about. If Spotify goes the same route, I wouldn't discard other platforms to appear and fill the huge void left by these greedy power mongers. The overwhelming majority of consumers cannot afford this and most couldn't care less anyway. Give me some decent music and keep your silly gimmicks for the nerds and maniacs.
I honestly don't think ATMOS will ever catch on... a flash in the pan at best.
A long bright flash so far, but yeh, I agree.
Stereo Music will Never be Dead. The reasons why Dolby Atmos is being pushed is to sell more Speakers, More expensive AVRs and so Music Executives can sell existing music again in Dolly Atmos.
The Public is Not excited about Dolby Atmos. Do even 1% of homes have Dolby Atmos.
Dolby Atmos is fine at the Movie Theater but it is Ridiculous at home.
The only people buying Dolby Atmos systems are a very minuscule amount of people who are Home Theater Geeks.
How many ears do you have?
The short no it’s not. Another medium but Stereo is here to stay. Besides being an eye sore in most consumer spaces and even with sound bars sounding all phasey. Bottom line customers won’t want the price point.
Yep, I agree. It will always be about convenience and price.
As an Customer i don‘t See any benefit for Listening to music in Atmos cause only a Handful of music stiles are ready to giving benefits in that way -> all Kinds of clubmusic Don‘t given you any benefit … only if you‘re ging to a specialised Concert Venue where the Whole concert is made for atmos you‘ll getingelt something - But in this case it would be much more a live listening to Video & Light Show as to a True live concert … … atmos is a really good Thing for Cinemas + -> But you can‘t oder it really good in a Club with dj‘s (its impracticable for a DJ to do his Gig and mix atmos too for the Situation in this club) … … as an Producer for all stiles of Electronic clubmusic i‘ll Be asked for Atmos only from the Guys which are involved in Ambient …
If they want to be serious about it. ATMOS should be installed in cars by default. Reference studio monitors are overpriced. I’ve done great mixes in some basic M-Audio monitors.
There should be a standard for mixing, like how the industry had loudness war, it’s not a problem anymore because now there is a standard. So… This requires education, lab work (trial and error) and in about 5 years (with new headphone technology) it can become a standard
A lot of high-end cars (BMW, Audio, etc) have Atmos as standard (this will filter down as all technology does). Also, musicians and studios have started (I have on good authority) to record in surround sound (16 mics on a single MONO source.. (so 16 on top of 16 drums mics...)). This is frightening, lol!
@@EdThorne even a 5 piece band can already use 60+ channels on stereo. When you add layering, effects, backing vocals, I’ve seen 98 channels go to stereo on a small 9 piece band… I can’t imagine what it will be for ATMOS
Yeh, I was actually thinking about this concept further yesterday and realised no mix engineer in the world is going to touch 16 channels of immersive files for ONE sound source! It’s just not sustainable. Some artists may insist on it as a passion project but I hope they’re prepared to pay the engineers for the extra time.
I just want to know WHO THE FUCK has their house or room wired for 15 speakers? And who is listening to music in such a room? Most music is heard on earbuds or bt speakers or car speakers... The industry ALREADY TRIED to convince consumers that "HD audio" was necessary, we had said and we had dvd audio. And again it turned CONSUMERS WERE HAPPY WITH MP3 AND EARBUDS.
I haven't met one person that said they were interested or wanted surround sound music.... So I have to wonder what Apple is after here. Are the in bed with Dolby trying to sell hardware?
And I imagine if this remains, stereo really being the standard, we'll find a way to convert stereo to atmos with no work done just for the stupid requirement.
Who else listening to this on their phone? 📱 😂
Its a good, but bad idea. People who listen to music listen in stereo. Unless you are in a club...that means not hearing the music fully, or cinema which from my experience is rubbish at home I don't need it. So its being pushed by the tech and business but where will they earn revenue for this venture. Nice idea but its not for everyone.
This is a fad. As long as the consumers don't ask for it Sweetwater and the other pushers of gear are fighting a lost cause. For movies, yep. This is a thing. But for music, why on earth do you want the band spread around you? If this is such a good idea, why on eart isn't bands doing this instead of standing on a stage "playing in stereo"? Man, how stupid do they think the consumers are??
I don't like the sound of binaural Atmos headphones. It's syrupy, slightly phasey with too much unfocused ambiance. Stereo is so much better on headphones, IME.
Agreed!
Agree: Fail!
conventional music is the worst content for that audio format. Immersive sound (Spatial, Atmos, ambisonic, etc etc) is amazing in multi-speaker array setup, in theaters, museums, movies, festivals, events, sound art..... But actual commercial music not. music have to be re-thing as a space/time composition in the begining of the recording. At the end 99,9999999999999999999999% of the listener will only hear stereo mix down of a 360 marketing new brand hype sound that is irrevelante nonsense. Music record is the idea of taking a picture of a musical performance and you can listen it at home, it already a mix down of the real live experience. but with immersive sound concept, imagine that an artist create a 40x40 feet monumental painting that no-body will event see it for real, but every one get a 480x480 lofi pixeled version on streaming platform.
Another surround scam
This seems yet just another push by humans to over-optimise "well if we can push the limit to stereo, how much further can we go up the S curve before viability/diminishing return becomes a waste of time and money?" . Mono was fine then stereo came along, then 4.1 5.1 6.1 etc... etc... when stereo was probably enough. If it aint broke, don't fix it. People can barely sit through a short tik tok or a youtube video, they're not going to bother with this