You know what's great about this interview? Rick didn't interrupt Ted like so many other interviewers do. Only short affirmations that he's listening, and following what Ted is saying. It's like the 10+ minute song of interviews.
@@elderbob100 one of Larry King's secrets was he didn't do a pre-interview. He wanted the discussions spontaneous. He felt the less he knew, the better the interview. Too often the best bits are in the pre-interview, and when you try to recreate them in the interview they fall flat.
"I've studied this..." "I've looked into this..." The number of times Ted started a point saying this was incredibly refreshing. What an insightful and intellectual conversation. Actual INFORMED thoughts on display here. What a rarity in this world we live in. Thank you for having this talk, guys. Ted, I'm a fan now. And Rick, you're a gift .
If Reddit Quora or Wiki is his study sources which often is the case with a western person then he wasted his life on lies and pointless information since lots of those places have a toxic community and is focused on silencing the truth.
@@minmogrovingstrongandhealthy Did you even bother to look into him? What he's written? What he's researched? Since I saw this, I have. This is not the situation, here, I can assure you. 🤣 This guy was winning awards for his work before Wikipedia and Reddit were even a thing.
@@PeteOliva Good for him. If he was digging deep then I respect that but have to atm only take your word for it. I don't have time of my life to waste on researching pointless things. I just say that today's 99% of the source for information people use are out of their ass or the platforms I mentioned and many others social media where attention seeking idiots spam whatever they feel like and corporate western scum spam lies to satisfy their consumer driven agendas. Also his rewards and that type of knowledge wont put food on my table, hard work in the natural environment will, so as preserving it, so all that from up above is a hard pass. With that said I can't take seriously anyone anymore and the main point of my comment which expands your 1st comment. Does that make sense? I hope it does. Have a great day.
@@PeteOliva Yet I got an email from him quoting some reddit and twitter feeds posting some edited and faked output from BingAI. No use talking in an echochamber.
It's amazing to listen to his analysis of Spotify, and what he thought was going to happen. Knowing what happened just about a half year later. With Spotify stopping payments to small artists. Which means that the majority of royalty payments are now going to the power players in the industry. He was pretty spot on.
I like Frank Zappas take on making music; "Theres a certain kind of person who likes my music, and I make it for them" (paraphrasing). Effectively, make what you want to make and you'll manifest an audience who appreciates it.
Yes, Gioia should be a regular guest here. I'm an A.F. of M. life member who's played Classical at a professional level since 1981 and I couldn't agree more.
This video is the most intellectually stimulating and informative hour of content I've watched in goodness knows how long. I have never heard these topics related to music framed in such a brilliant and well communicated manner. Anyone with any level of influence in the industry needs to hear what Ted is saying and really pay attention to it.
what’s your perspective on records being an old form of tech in regards to the masses flocking to “vintage” in all forms: lofi instagram pics, low powered vw buses, vhs tape collections, NES/flappy bird… most forms of modern tech have extremely popular “vintage” niches, and it even extends beyond tech to items like shoes and jerseys. Is it possible musicians haven’t provided enough “vintage” offerings to be consumed?
@@jasonjon I think all this nostalgia hunting comes from over saturated markets, people get disenfranchised and look for simpler more tangible things. There’s also just aging demographics, just like how boomers had all the cash 20yrs ago now Gen X has cash and we seek out things that make us feel young haha
the audience is smart... and underestimated... Joni Mitchell did a radio interview on the CBC in Canada quite a few years ago and I never forgot what she said: "Everybody knows the music business is run by crooks. At least in the old days, the crooks liked music"... What a memorable quote.
This is amazing, think of Bob Dylan who is not really a singer, he doesn't do 2minute songs but he made his mark. Pink Floyd!! Can put you in a trance.
I interviewed Ted a few years ago for his book about the Delta blues. Beyond being intelligent and talented, he was the most well-spoken author whom I've ever interviewed.
when he said, an environment that doesn't allow creators to take chances, that really sums it up. and ultimately that ends creating a corrupt culture, art taking the second seat. great interview
I'm kind of a gadfly on UA-cam because iv been bitching about unimaginative bass lines long before UA-cam came about. My peeve is a microcosm of that point.
Due to decades of consolidation we are down to the big three record companies (Sony, Warner and Universal) which control 80 percent of the market. Add to that the 1996 Telecommunications Act which allowed all the big media companies to buy up all the radio stations. Before 1996 you could only own 20 FM stations. iheart radio and Cumulous now own about 2000 stations. Back in the day most radio stations were independently owned and programed and they worked with independent reginal record promoters. Today's corporate radio is pretty much top down structured and programed from central headquarters using flawed listener data surveys. Back in the day smaller sized companies could sign artists that they believed in artistically and nurture their careers over time. They could work with regional program directors and they could compete and get exposure. The corporate music business system today is pretty much a closed corporate system (at least in the larger markets) and it's much more focused on quick profits and less about artistry...
@@frankmarsh1159 Thank you! Well said. I think there's a monopoly going on. Many old favorite radio stations have either disappeared or changed style. Now the question is Is this monopoly coming to the Internet? Is it already in place?
@@USAMehdi There is a scene in the movie Coal Miners Daughter where Loretta Lynn and her husband drive around looking for radio towers. They stop at radio stations and walk in and ask the DJ to play their record. They mentioned on the Ken Burns Country Music documentary how that could never happen in today's corporate radio system. Back in the day radio was regional and most stations were independently owned and operated. People could call in and ask the DJ to play a record. The first time the Beatles were ever played on the radio in America was when a fourteen year old girl called a radio station in Washington DC and asked them to play the Beatles and they did it. No corporate manager had to approve of the decision. Tom Petty had a song called the Last DJ who plays what he wants to play.
He didn't say that- he said it was the decision makers, the ppl deciding who gets played and who doesn't- the ppl who make the top song lists and so forth- that were afraid to take any chances- not the creators. He specifically said the creators are creating great stuff- and he's right- good music is out there. But you have to proactively seek it out- the powers that be aren't going to drop it in your lap like they used to because that no longer fits their business model. Their model is 1. Push whatever artists and songs they've been paid to promote and 2. Make ppl engage with the music enough to subscribe, but not enough to consume very much music- once they subscribe Spotify is better off if they never listen to even one song and just keep paying that subscription.
Just when you might think that Rick Beato doesn't have anything left to pull out of his extremely deep pockets, he reaches a little further and pulls this out. A fascinating interview. You, sir, are for many of us the most important commentator on/professor of all things music. Thank you!
Dear Rick, I'm a Musician from Germany. This is one of the most interesting Videos I've ever watched and listened to on UA-cam in 20 years. Thank you so much, more of this! Great content on your Channel overall , may you get more great Guests and Topics onto your Channel in the Future . Love, Timmy
This is the single most erudite, intellectually stimulating, and frankly the absolute best podcast I’ve ever seen or listened to in my whole life. I cannot praise this sort of dialogue enough.
I am still in favour of big corps and government controlling music. The world is becoming too chaotic. We are in a climate emergency. There are racists, bigots, transphobics and discrimination is everywhere. We need to stop the population from acting so crazy and listen more to the big governments and corporations to keep them under control as they clearly can't control themselves. I am in favour of censorship. The population are sheep and they need a Shepard. Leaders like Trudeau are the perfect leader to lead everyone into the light.
I believe we lost an important "arm" of music when the merchandising was reduced to cassettes, CDs and then NOTHING. I am referring to the Album and not for the vinyl enclosed but for the wonderfullness of the album artwork, from simple headshots and group shots to the complexity of SPLHCB and graphics that offered your individual interpretation. The hours getting lost in those images, WHILE the music PLAYED were priceless.
If I could get the CD with album sized artwork and lyric sheets, I’d pay extra! Of course I would also need the CD covers with the art and lyrics, too!
You can, if you want, get way more artwork, group photos bios etc. online than you ever could in the LP era plus you can listen to a lossless sound and even email your music to any friend worldwide FREE!
@@lamper2 exactly correct It’s almost like…… you lose one thing and gain another, like most advancements in technology. Hey, if people are missing the physical, fine. Personally, I have over 12,000 CDs-- so no one can say I haven’t spent the money to support the industry. Whether the artist share of money spent was better than today, is another debate But- to quickly look at credits on a dozen albums if I’m doing some jumping around, certainly is faster online, and for soooooo many albums there wasn’t that much on the sleeve, and once I’ve read it, now I’m fighting the storage wars…. YMMV, but listing to hours of radio, you don’t see credits either, yet for me personally that was one of the most valuable and educational inputs ever Radio- free, wireless monetized streaming. For decades. No meta data. No artwork or credits. Data easily downloaded to reel to reel, then cassette, DAT, minidisc, and now hard drive, if you like. Globally available with no subscription for a century or so and counting (subscription model in U.K. Etc)
Yes, let musicians produce whatever they care to. And, let us have it available to us. Most of all, let musicians be truly compensated for their magic. We seem to take their work for granted, since music is everywhere.
Musicians can already do everything themselves, except for: Promotion. Well they can try to play the IG and Tik Tok game, but realistically that is only going to work for very few. How to solve this? By empowering fans to support artists and rewarding them for it. It is actually pretty simple and already being done.
Mozart was treated like dirt by the aristocracy. He ate with the kitchen help. He was kept waiting for hours in cold hallways, before the nobles were ready to be distracted and amused by the freakish child prodigy. They trotted Amadeus out to play piano, then gave him a clunky gold watch, instead of cash, and hurried him out of the castle, through the servants portal, not wishing to be tainted by such lowlife. will . i . am said that if you want to make money in music, be a credit card company, or run your own festivals. Music has never been valued much. It was not even "listened to" as a recreational activity until recently in human history! Music was just a peripheral behavior, an accompaniment of a more esteemed civil performance or cult act, an aspect of a public ceremony or secret ritual, not an art worthwhile on its own, or an enjoyable leisure pursuit in itself, separate from the special events.
Great interview. As a struggling local singer-songwriter who is out in the trenches, I can tell you there is great new music out there on the local and regional level, but good luck ever hearing any of it because no major supports it and their monopoly power controls what most people hear. If the majors release something new that does not completely suck, I am astounded. Innovation and the best of what is new is coming from local artists who produce their own music, but they are not likely to ever get rewarded for it.
All "Art " ---there's countless artists everywhere but the only known are from 'special' galleries ..... So when are U going to start a real UNION of Artists /musicians - and 'own your own ' website!!! geez --add -- at 45 minutes only Spoty - yet he's listened to 800 albums ( by May 31:31 ) and no mention UPFRONT about Bandcamp ?? etc where does he find all these ' independent labels ' -- get going !
The truth is very simple: once you find your way to impress broader audience, the established record labels may show up, offer you a contract, charge 70 to 90 percent of earnings for their support. But eventually, the gross sum may be large enough for you to compensate all the years of struggle. Meanwhile, do everything you can to become institution by yourself and to build your ground for bargaining against the labels. No unions, no others, nobody except your family will care of you and your eventual rise and success.
@@TigiBorg In many ways, yes you are correct. However, how many bands started off good and ended up terrible once they got a major record deal and had to start doing as they were told? 🤷♂️
This is why classical music changed my life. Finally a piece of music that can keep me fully engrossed for 20, 30, 40… 80 minutes straight. It’s an entirely different experience than listening to a really good song for 3 or 4 minutes.
the first time I really actively LISTENED to a Beethoven symphony permanently changed my life forever that was 17 years ago for me and life has never been the same since that day could not agree with you more my friend
What I love most about Rick’s interviews is that he knows how to set them moving in a direction, and then let the patter be about the guest, not about *himself*! Too many interviewers seem most concerned that you’ll be impressed with how smart *they* are. I find that nauseating, and Rick has none of that. Go Rick!
Rick, this comment deserves it's own thread. You are a very talented interviewer. I've seen it happen, far too often, that a UA-camr gets a power guest on, and then crumbles under the load. You did a fabulous job of steering this interview while maintaining a very light grasp on the wheel. Kudos!!
Tremendous interview. I’m a teacher, so I know that even in education the curriculum is built to pander; but when you teach texts that are challenging, it elevates the class’s ability to think critically, communicate thoughtfully, engage intellectually and play gracefully with ideas.
As a student who is 17, and just starting the journey of music studies and music making, this interview hones into the importance of learning how important it is to develop music that transcends the material world and elevates the mind. Hoping to expand the limits and reach the world with 10 minute tracks. Thank you for an informative and encouraging conversation.
Make your music as long as it needs to be to tell the story you want to tell! Don't just repeat stuff over and over to make it 10 minutes (ie, respect your listener)...but also don't sell good ideas short by trying to artificially shorten them and taking out critical sections. Short isn't inherently bad and long isn't inherently good, and vice-versa. The problem is that we've gotten into a profit-driven dogma with shortening attention spans.
If you serve music the universe has reached you. The rest is less relevant; think of all the musicians who fail to reflect the deeper secrets music has to tell...
@@dtd1986 It’s not always about patience. I like plenty of bands that create songs that can be 10 minutes or more. The problem is that there is so much available music to listen to, and not enough time to do it. If I’m stuck on one album, I’m missing out on other albums. If I’m streaming and my playlist has a few 20 minute songs I’m missing out on other much shorter songs in the same playlist that I may actually enjoy as much or more.
Speaking of attention span, I thought there is no way I'm watching an interview that is this long. I thorougly enjoyed it in its entirety. Ted is incredible intelligent and interesting. Great interview, Rick.
What I love most about this intelligent conversation is that they talk and they listen to each other without talking over top of each other like most interviewers and interviewees do these days, so refreshing.
Never hear of him before but this dude is fascinating, and Beato interviewed him to perfection. None of those five minute questions designed to make the interviewer look smart, just the minimum needed to explore the most interesting and insightful avenues. Really impressive on both sides of the conversation and really gave me insights I've never considered.
The big take away from this excellent interview is Rick and Ted should start a record label! You could crowd fund the start up cost from this community. Bach Records
As a music therapist of 25 plus years I find talks like these so educational. Another point I have noticed in regards to running groups with people is that the common song is leaving us. When you think communities knew the same music for thousands and thousands of years and now individuals have access to such a variety of music from around the world, it's makes it challenging to share music as a group.
regarding the 3 minute songs: Billy Joel wrote already in 1974: "I am the entertainer I come to do my show You heard my latest record It's been on the radio Ah, it took me years to write it They were the best years of my life It was a beautiful song but it ran too long If you're gonna have a hit you gotta make it fit So they cut it down to 3:05"
14:38 "People don't have the attention span for anything longer" The TV industry largely disproves this. Some of the most popular and beloved shows of the last 15 years have been complicated, artistic masterpieces that ppl will happily spend hours upon hours binging and rewatching over and over. This shows that people are willing to engage with complex art and spend large amounts of time with it, but the people in charge of major labels refuse to learn anything from other forms of entertainment that are currently kicking music's butt. Overly compressed mastering is also an issue because everything sounding louder reduces the emotional impact of the parts of songs that are supposed to be more exciting so ppl don't feel as connected to the music even when it is well written and skillfully performed.
That observation I made myself some time ago. Everything in the entertainment business became awfully mediocre. Except movies and (some) tv series. Some are really mind challenging.
Attention span and time spent aren't the same thing. Yes, one spends hours binging that show, but the show is in form of episodes that are way shorter than a movie, and each episode is delivered in fast sequence of events, quick camera cuts one after the other. Nickelodeon for adults. It is possible (and actually preferred) to engage people for long times, by exploiting (and further shortening) their attention span.
@@compfox it also depends on the Movie most mainstream Hollywood movies are not great and you notice they cater to the low attention Spann audience having just short scenes with dialogues and/or let the characters have their easy to understand dialogues or constants qibs / jokes death pool style right in the action scenes most mainstream Hollywood movies don’t have long scenes without Action. When you compare this with older Hollywood movies especially from the 40/50/60 ara where they had long scenes with people just having a conversation its night and Day. It’s a bit ironic I watch a lot of Anime and most Animes beside the in the vain of DBZ have more and longer scenes where characters just talk then modern Life Action Hollywood Movies. I stopped watching Hollywood movies when I watch something it’s mostly Anime and sometimes K-dramas
@@mtc5 yes I believe the same but it’s not just series most mainstream movies rarely have longer scenes where characters just talk anymore. There have to be constant action otherwise the producers think people loose interest and look down at their phones again. It’s funny nowadays most Anime got more and longer dialogues
One main problem with most people is that they are visually oriented, in that their ears are not as well developed as their eyes. As a teacher of music, it is more difficult to always stay in the sphere of sounds without reverting back to the visual. Even printed music becomes a necessity for musicians. The look of instruments is even a visually pleasing experience to children because they are not the things of every day life. Maybe I oversimplified this problem or I am totally off base. But it is true music has become the servant for the drama in movies, TV shows, media in general, which all started with Opera in 1600 and of course Greek Dramas.
The most encouraging thing I’ve seen in recent years is the rise of younger musicians using UA-cam as a platform to get their music into the public realm. There are some phenomenal young bands and musicians making superb music, based on creativity, musicianship, making nods to past music, looking forward to the future, and giving some faith that, however monetised the mainstream record labels, record charts and radio stations get, there will always be real bands, musicians, writers and artists who are interested in producing genuinely engaging new music. Just don’t look for it in the MSM!
Rick is a treasure. And as you might discern, not just musically. He's a wonderful human being. So generous a teacher. And joyful to teach us. Kudos to Mr. Beato!
In some ways you can say that love of longer form music was the reason so many albums from the 70'a-90's endure today, we fell in love w/ the *albums* as well as the songs in them. I remember when my friends and I would have album listening party's, Pink Floyd's Dark Side/The Wall, Fleetwood Mac's Rumours, Queen's A Night at the Opera, Zeppelin's discography, the Beatles Rubber Soul, Sgt Peppers, Abbey Road etc, all these artists carefully chose the songs included and which side of the album they played on. The last song on side one would continue onto side two.... THIS is one of the biggest shames of the state of music today, the loss of the "Album Experience" when you would hear that whirr click and rush to your record player to flip to side two....great memories :)
@@richarddoan9172 I am CONSTANTLY requesting for the artist I follow for her and her family (HUGE Beatles fans, as a family they often perform Beatles songs including "Oh Darling") that some day, they might perform Abbey Road's Side 2 (She sang "Because" acapella in high school)... IMO if someone were to ask me my all time favorite Side 2, Abbey Road's wins for me every time :) (Her Dad said he'd be honored, but it's a bit daunting to take on one of the all time great album sides)
I get the “album experience” as rewarding as it is, the fact is, most people, including avid music lovers, abandoned it as soon as the ability to cherry pick their favorite songs became widely available. The mix tape. Many record albums contained “filler” In fact, aside from thematic pieces like “Dark Side” etc, few were actually listening to entire records in one sitting. My point is simply that the fog of nostalgia has obscured the fact that fewer albums were worth listening to all the way through than we think. So cassettes, mix tapes and the ability to create personal play lists eventually set the stage for streaming. Today Gioia’s “super record” exists in systems like Qubuz, Tidal and Roon etc. with hand held music players with incredibly high quality sound..Astell and Kern et al that can both store and stream music and “hold” thousands of songs played through headphones and in ear monitors rivaling the best large speakers. In fact a system like Roon can organize massive (really limitless) libraries and provide far more information than any Record Album Sleeve. Surprised Rick is seemingly not aware…he must be!
@@JohnLnyc "mix tapes" existed back then as well, they're called cassette tapes, that didn't stop me from enjoying the "album experience" from that first unsealing of the album, to that fresh vinyl smell, to that first time you dropped the needle. "The album experience" also involved appreciating the artist's thinking about the ordering and placement of their songs on the album, Which song introduced side 2 of an album, how one song's effect/emotions could lead into the next, something the Beatles, Zeppelin and Floyd were masters at. You lose the synergy one song had to the next, or the one before when you compare an album to a 'mix tape' you put together. "Mix Tapes" don't come w/ those visceral, physical experiences. I enjoyed that vinyl experience for decades. I still buy vinyl from my favorite artist if they're available. They are not comparable experiences IMO
What a brilliant interview. I'm not even a musician, just a long time fan of music who was a teenager in the late 80s. I found this discussion fascinating.
If this interview was a book, it would be underlined, highlighted, heavily annotated in the margins and placed on the top shelf. Awesome, thank you Rick!
That's great but I would point out that this 'book' wouldn't have a single footnote or evidence, period. The most salient line of this interview was "I can't prove it, but...." 31:21. So maybe we should take this interview with a huge grain of salt and realize that it's an old timer shaking his fist at the clouds. Not that there's anything wrong with that, that can even be entertaining.
@@SPCEMN3 I take your point, but I didn't get the "old man yells at clouds" vibe at all. There are plenty of people who gripe about the music industry, and they usually have their specific ax to grind. I though he was relatively dispassionate and even offered some hope! But yes, it's his opinion, but a fairly learned opinion.
When they were discussing substack, I always felt like interrupting the to say: "There's a thing called Bandcamp". It is basically substack for musicians, right down to the 10% percent fee on sales. Regardless, awesome and fascinating conversation!
YES! Keep playing, let it keep going, dig deeper, listen, build, manifest, play and react, respond, communicate, 'Keep Talking', let the tape roll, go further...as a musician who has experienced the transcendental truth & magic of what happens when musicians play/communicate with each other and follow where the music leads and go for that unreal journey...and feel/hear what happens when you aren't afraid to go deeper, go further, take the trip...it's something that has no equal in a quick clip or a short burst...and like everything else that means something, it takes you being willing to spend the time to go there
Loved this discussion! Ted went to my high school (Hawthorne, CA - also home of the Beach Boys) and we both worked on the school newspaper together back in the 70's. I was actually his Editor-in-Chief for one year, and looking back I should have been taking orders from him! Ted is a fantastic writer and great intellect. Absolutely understands the convoluted history of recorded music and the problems with how we distribute, consume and monetize music in the digital age. Rick is always great, but the two of them together opened some doors to topics that are rarely discussed or even thought about. Music consumption and marketing has changed radically in the last two decades and not for the better. Bravo!
This discussion is almost the exact internal discussion I had with myself about where I get my music from. I don’t see Apple or Spotify as entities that care about the music, which clearly they don’t. I have looked and searched for a platform that is more (or ideally all) about the music. The closest I have come to this in a streaming platform is Tidal. That being said, I have found myself at 41 years of back at record stores buying physical albums. It puts more money into the pockets of artists and there is a local connection through my locally-owned weirdo record shop. Above all, it makes music fun and enjoyable again for me. That’s really the point of music for me.
I have a love/hate relationship with Spotify. I hate it because I know they don't pay artists well, but I love it because I have discovered more artists through Spotify than I ever have with any other media or platform. Some of my favorite new bands came right out of Spotify suggestions.
I’d say Spotify has been responsible for my discovery of so many new bands and artists I would’ve never heard about, as well as rediscovering older music and even 90s-00s obscure/forgotten artists I disregarded or could’ve never found at the time. The song radio and playlists have been amazing, as has UA-cam’s algorithm in its own unique way… and honestly I have never listened to as many artists in any other era as ever before and it has led me to go to more live shows than ever before. My experience of new music is that the production levels and musicality is off the scale compared to past artists.
@@johninama585 That's OK. As soon as we find music we should search them out on their social media and find out how to get money into heir pockets (whether through subscriptions, PayPal, or direct album purchases).
I immediately was reminded of how excited I was in 1967 when the "long version" of the Doors "Light My Fire" was played on the radio. It was 7 minutes long. It was an immediate disappointment when the "short version" was played. It was cut to only be just under 3 minutes. This has been one of the GREAT conversations you have had.
Trance, intellectual appreciation, and catharsis through dance or some other form of artistic expression - those are big reasons for music. The best compliment I've received as a musician is "you guys made me forget about my life for a few moments..." That's why we do what we do. Get into the music and disconnect from your own reality for a few moments. Then return to your life inspired to do better.
Yes. And coordinated group dancing has extraordinary healing power, as does group and choral singing. Edit: Extraordinary positive power. Not just healing.
Retired drummer / sound tech mode ON! Great interview! Always glad to hear or read new twists from anyone who has “been there and done that”. Learn from the the successes and the mistakes of others; life is too short to do everything from scratch. Vinyl, being ANALOGUE, is pretty amazing stuff. Bandwidth? The old CD4 Quadraphonic disc carried two conventional Left / Right" signals in the groove, but modulated ON TOP of the audible information were the two REAR speaker channels. To recover this extra information, you need, not only a "CD4 capable" pre-amp, but a specially-ground diamond stylus: ( Shibata" or, these days referred to as "Fine-line") A "Fineline" rock has a parabolic form and edges fine enough to read 40KHz plus, without smearing them right off the groove walls. Playing a CD4 disc with a dodgy low compliance conical stylus will wreck the disc's 4-channel ability. Vinyl is an early physical manifestation of "DC to Light" bandwidth, after a fashion. Why is most Vinyl black? PURE vinyl is WHITE, but the record companies "figured" that the mug punters would not accept a colour change as well ast a speed change, so they included a finely powdered colouring agent (basically carbon), to not offend delicate sensibilities. Every so often some daring company would release something "special" on white “virgin" vinyl. The other economy thing associated with "black" vinyl is that it is "recyclable" Punch out and discard the "label" and shred and remelt the remainder.. The problem for the purist was that less than pure vinyl contains "impurities" and these show up as "surface noise" on less than stellar pressings. (This is different from "tape hiss" from a poor master tape or "shot-noise" associated with less than perfect transistor circuits). TWO big problems with vinyl: 1. The physical medium is prone to "contamination". Hence, pops, clicks, or distortion ,usually caused by Krap playback gear that physically damages the groove walls.). The big killer is the simple fact that the effective linear speed of the stylus in the groove reduces as the "rock" spirals toward the label.. As this happens, the "grooves" contain less and less "usable" high-frequency information. Cartridges are velocity-sensitive devices. 2. This is exacerbated by the industry-standard RIAA curve, built into the recording; HF is boosted and LF is reduced. .Just for giggles, digital formats do pretty much the sane thing for vaguely related reasons.. In the "CD recording process", the equalization of the "cutting master" is first "tilted" (pre-emphasis),then linearly compressed at a precise ratio, EXACTLY the way the classic dbx noise reduction systems work. Then, it is turned into a stream of 0nes and Zeros. It is all there in the "Red Book" specification if you want some bed-time reading. As long as the process is precisely reversed on playback, all is OK. There is a final twist: The digital data is NOT laid down in a linear stream. it gets chopped and "shuffled" in a precisely regulated sequence.. Some "vintage" CDs even carried a reference to this on the "artwork": CIRC, i.e.; Cross Interleaved Reed-Solomon Code.. The object is that, if there is a bit of "crud" on / damage to the disc and the laser cannot get a valid chunk of code, the "bytes / words" that are in that "damaged" chunk come from different parts of the original linear stream. Thus after the next bit of magic; error correction, the tiny "wonky bits are buried across a field of "good" data and all is well. Pretty 'mazing stuff! Then there is the added fun feature that there is, functionally only ONE stream of data being read and rearranged, for TWO "channels". Huh? simple solution, lay them down alternately in the stream, i.e., multiplexing.. At a sample rate of 44.1K per SECOND, you need seriously golden ears to hear the time split. There are some "exotic" CD players that buffer the output streams and clock them out precisely in parallel. As for reading speed; unlike Vinyl, CD rotational speed changes constantly as the playback proceeds. There is an additional "subcode" built into the way the pits are laid out in the "track". This is a reference frequency that is synchronized to the on-board "clock" in the CD player. a very nifty bit of circuitry, basically a phase-locked loop, constantly adjusts the "spin" motor speed. Also buried in there is a "time-code, for the convenience of the user. Sony and Philips were seriously on the ball when they cooked this up in the late 1970s Then, referring back to the audio output from the D/A converter, just before that stage is a "buffer" that briefly holds the de-shuffled and corrected digital "chunks before clocking them out at a precise rate. As for frequency response, CD Audio "brick-walls" at MAX 19KHz. Put simply, in digital recording the MAXIMUM frequency recordable, is HALF (ore less) than the sample rate. 44.1Khz divided by two leaves you with 22.05 KHz. To be sure, this was trimmed back to 19Hhz. . The catch is that this, theoretically can block some "pleasing" intermodulation products that may occur if the original 30 IPS, 1/2 inch two track master is played through serious gear to a listener with the proverbial "golden ears"..Standard FM stereo radio "brickwalls" at about 16Khz, because the stereo sub-carrier, 38Khz, AND its harmonic product, 19KHz, have to be filtered out with analogue filter circuits to prevent weird and nasty intermodulation effects. See also "psycho-acoustics". Vari-speed CD players have LOTS of fun with that feature. there are LOTS of numbers being crunched to output music at an altered tempo but NO pitch change. That "buffering" was also a key to the "Discman" type personal pocket CD player. They do a "wind-up" before the music comes out, because several seconds of audio was being shoved into a BIG buffer from which it is clocked out and converted to analogue. . Got all your treasures on a multi-gigabyte SSD? Tough luck when THAT fails to read. As the Doobie Brothers sing: “LISTEN to the MUSIC”,….. NOT the gear or the hype. Cheers from an old audio bloke!! Now, back to J J Cale and Eric Clapton on the Road to Escondido.
Thank you Rick for introducing us to Ted. He is an amazing man with a wealth of knowledge. My son is starting to venture into music for school as his career. Your channel, and introducing people like Ted to us, just assist parents like me to nurture my sons path. THANK YOU!
@@johnsmith-ug5tp Wrong. There is always room for successful musicians if they are great. Don’t be one of those downer dad’s. Can’t deal with people that measure success that way. A degree is only worthless if you don’t learn anything. Sounds like you may have gotten one of those?
@@RickBeato Thank you for those words Rick. I am guiding my son into a field he truly loves. I have already told him it's an extremely tough business, but music is more than business in my eyes. Music is a passion and a lifelong skill/artform we all wish we had. My 15 year old just happens to have IT! There is a fantastic UK guy on UA-cam called Andy Guitar, and he has the gift as a teacher. Nothing wrong with that honourable profession!
Great interview. I’m proud of my record collection and can still listen to my first albums bought in the 60’s. My daughter 20 ,is also buying albums and cds and will inherit mine. Years ago when my nephew said he pays for a Spotify subscription I said “ but you’ll never own anything and one day they’ll just take it away” This happened to me with Amazon. Woke up one day and 3 years of my playlists and downloads gone. No recourse. Just greed from the largest retailer in the world. Same with Netflix and Amazon video,less and worse content double the price.
A generation may wake up and realize that they have an access to film or music that is allowed solely at the whim of a corporation. My kids are mystified that I still invest in a CD collection when it is all supposedly free on line. Again, Joni Mitchell - It always seems to be that you don't know what you got till its gone.
The World Economic Forum’s slogan is “You’ll own nothing and be happy”. If your social credit score is too low, you won’t be able to rent the song you want to listen to. Same will apply to movies, video games, etc.
Wow Rick.. That was an amazing article. I am a musician and teacher a bit older than you from Mossel Bay, a small town in South Africa. I introduce and teach my Kids all the great contemporary music from the 50's through to the early 2000's. You and your guest answered so many questions and confirmed so many of my thoughts it was incredible, thank you so much. Love all the stuff you put out, it keeps me inspired..
Ted Gioia is also an excellent musician. The Ted Gioia Trio's "The End of the Open Road" came out in 1988 when I was working at my college's jazz radio station. Thank you for this great interview.
It’s rare and gratifying that I can listen to somebody talk for an hour and agree with them on everything. I wanted to stand up and cheer at a number of points. Great interview.
Rick, it would be really amazing having the enlightening Ted Gioia on a regular basis to talk about music or culture on your channel. What a great conversation! Congrats! I'm a big fan of both!
Long time listener, first time commenter here. Rick, this podcast blew my mind. A great guest, your conversation with whom was so engaging, so informative, so insightful, I was rapt from minute one. Thank you bringing high value content back to the Internet. Please let this be the first of many more podcasts to come!
This confirms what they are both saying - talk up to your audience and they will listen and respond. Two intelligent people having a lengthy, well-thought out discussion. So refreshing.... again another great interview by Rick and I will certainly dig into Ted's books and articles. Thank you both for this discussion!
What a wonderful interview! I didn't know about Ted Gioia until today. The man is an invaluable treasure. I will definitely be buying some of his books. Thank you so much, Rick!
So glad I'm not alone, I often listen to or perform the same song over and over and over🥰 There are times when I'm obsessing over a song and listen to it for days in a row!😍💜
One of Rick’s best ever videos. Ted”s passionate description of African music “the western musicians couldn’t write it down!!” was fascinating. I totally agree that the Blues was the foundation of modern Rock and Pop music. I always think of the Rolling Stones as proof.
I have written comments on the internet less than 10 times in my life, so this one is definitely the exception, and not the rule. I didn't realize it was going to be a discussion about the business of music and the people in it, rather than the music itself. So when it started, I fully expected not to make it more than 2 or 3 minutes before deciding to choose a different video like the 20 best intros, or an interview including the playing of an instrument, or a why this song is great, etc. But I watched it all the way to the end, and ended up thinking it was too short, because I wanted to hear more. I learned a lot, not least of all that there is something called substack which I intend to learn more about. So I went over to Mr. Gioia's substack to sign up and see what I might be able to read there. Thank you so much for this video and all of your others I so much enjoy learning from.
Wow, the breadth of scope you are covering surrounding music is brilliant Rick. Thank you for being a leading force of creative thinking for artists and musicians everywhere. Simply incomparable content. Incredibly thought provoking and enjoyable each time you post. Very Grateful! Filling a missing piece of life that remains so strong in music from the 60’s and 70’s and bringing it forward making today whole.
I'm a huge fan as well. I love interviewers who rarely interrupt and know how to steer an interview in such a subtle manner. I would love only to see more content on new music like for example the top 25 current albums and artists on AlbumOftheYear and Metacritic.
I want Rick to be the CEO of a new big record label that changes everything. We need this. He could even offer to produce some fellow youtube musicians and/or hire other genius people like Adam Neely, once he gets the means to do it.
TallicaMan1986 is correct. NDT's reputation is quickly turning sour. He's letting his ego control him now. Ted Giolia is much more humble and likeable.
This guy has so much insight! People talk about the biggest companies of these times: Apple, Google, etc.. No one ever talks about the giants such as RCA who pioneered as much or more than our current front runners. RCA moved so many different things forward. Not just records and music. The music industry has gotten so bad for the artists and the consumer. Intelligent guys like this need to be utilized to change directions.
Fascinating! What a genius. I learned more about music, business, and culture from this one interview than in four years of college. Thank you Rick and Ted for sharing your knowledge and insights.
Rick, I love that somehow you find people that are just as much in love with music as you are. Never change, and keep the wonderful interviews coming!!
That open - closed system talk about Netflix made me remember the current Avid protools subscription based thing vs a daw like REAPER which I see gaining a steady popularity because of how open it is, contrary to PT.
This is THE best conversation about music and the music "Bizz" I've ever heard. I was laughing out loud at times. Just point after point - golden nugget after golden nugget - what a joy!!!!!! You are both gifts to music.
I BEGGED Rick to do a weekly series where he EXPOSES FAMOUS SCAMS IN MUSIC HISTORY, from hendrix losing his royalties to the doors losing their royalties to govt trying to outlaw THE TWIST, and on and on!
It has already been said, but man, that Ted is so intelligent and interesting to listen to. This interview was the best thing I've heard in a while. Rick, your content is just amazing. Thank you, and thank you, Ted Gioia.
Phenomenal - this is the only place you can find this level of discussion about music that is both intellectual and entertaining. Rick, has a gift for interviewing and choosing topics..
Super Vinyl is basically the CD...💿 The sound is "perfect" (highs and lows beyond human hearing) It was smaller but did come with art, liner notes, and most importantly OWNERSHIP!
Maybe they just need to color the CDs black and make them look like they have grooves?? Many listeners will think they have something special, and they'll be convinced they love them due to their expectation biases.
Only thing is vinyl is analogue and cd is digital, there can be quality of sound difference when used with high end sound systems. It would be good to have a cutting end version of physical analogue based audio reproduction. However there is also scope for something physical which would playback in the highest dsd uncompressed digital audio formats as well I think. Both have their merits, shame it will probably not be happening anytime soon! I think they are right when they say the younger generation don't value music as much as in the past, they are happy to pay a tenner a month for a subscription but how many would spend 10 to 20 on a single album on a regular basis on something they are only partially interested in currently? I think some sort of online library where you have purchased your tracks and they are played back in high quality is a more likely new destination, possibly built upon the new interesting audiophile system rune, as this displays you music well in a well presented and browsable collection, provides added liner notes and photos etc to enhance the user experience, the quality is very high, and finally it has a very clever algorithm to recommend you new music based on your own library, very clever. The main barrier so far is just cost and hardware, but these can all be lowered in time and people can sell their music digitally much cheaper than physical costs but still way higher than the fraction of a penny you get through streaming. But the fact that there is no real incentive to purchase your music in it when you can just stream it is another big hurdle to figure out, you need the streaming aspect to discover the new stuff, there just needs to be a better incentive to buying the album digitally for a few bucks direct from the artist... Just my 2 cents anyhow 😂
Vinyl, being ANALOGUE, is pretty amazing stuff. Bandwidth? The old CD4 Quadraphonic disc carried two conventional Left / Right" signals in the groove, but modulated ON TOP of the audible information were the two REAR speaker channels. To recover this extra information, you need, not only a "CD4 capable" pre-amp, but a specially-ground diamond stylus: ( Shibata" or, these days referred to as "Fine-line") A "Fineline" rock has a parabolic form and edges fine enough to read 40KHz plus, without smearing them right off the groove walls. Playing a CD4 disc with a dodgy low compliance conical stylus will wreck the disc's 4-channel ability. Vinyl is an early physical manifestation of "DC to Light" bandwidth, after a fashion. Why is most Vinyl black? PURE vinyl is WHITE, but the record companies "figured" that he mug punters would not accept a colour change as well ast a speed change, so they included a finely powdered colouring agent (basically carbon), to not offend delicate sensibilities. Every so often some daring company would release something "special" on white virgin" vinyl. The other economy thing associated with "black" vinyl is that it is "recyclable" Punch out and discard the "label" and shred and remelt the remainder.. The problem for the purist was that less than pure vinyl contains "impurities" and these show up as "surface noise" on less than stellar pressings. (This is different from "tape hiss" from a poor master tape or "shot-noise" associated with less than perfect transistor circuits). TWO big problems with vinyl: 1. The physical medium is prone to "contamination". Hence, pops, clicks, or distortion ,usually caused by Krap playback gear that physically damages the groove walls.). The big killer is the simple fact that the effective linear speed of the stylus in the groove reduces as the "rock" spirals toward the label.. As this happens, the "grooves" contain less and less "usable" high-frequency information. Cartridges are velocity-sensitive devices. 2. This is exacerbated by the industry-standard RIAA curve, built into the recording; HF is boosted and LF is reduced. .Just for giggles, digital formats do pretty much the sane thing for vaguely related reasons.. In the "CD recording process", the equalization of the "cutting master" is first "tilted" (pre-emphasis),then linearly compressed at a precise ratio, EXACTLY the way the classic dbx noise reduction systems work. Then, it is turned into a stream of 0nes and Zeros. It is all there in the "Red Book" specification if you want some bed-time reading. As long as the process is precisely reversed on playback, all is OK. There is a final twist: The digital data is NOT laid down in a linear stream. it gets chopped and "shuffled" in a precisely regulated sequence.. Some "vintage" CDs even carried a reference to this on the "artwork": CIRC, i.e.; Cross Interleaved Reed-Solomon Code.. The object is that, if there is a bit of "crud" on / damage to the disc and the laser cannot get a valid chunk of code, the "bytes / words" that are in that "damaged" chunk come from different parts of the original linear stream. Thus after the next bit of magic; error correction, the tiny "wonky bits are buried across a field of "good" data and all is well. Pretty 'maxing stuff! Then there is the added fun feature that there is, functionally only ONE stream of data being read and rearranged, for TWO "channels". Huh? simple solution, lay them down alternately in the stream, i.e., multiplexing.. At a sample rate of 44.1K per SECOND, you need seriously golden ears to hear the time split. There are some "exotic" CD players that buffer the output streams and clock them out precisely in parallel. As for reading speed; unlike Vinyl, CD rotational speed changes constantly as the playback proceeds. There is an additional "subcode" built into the way the pits are laid out in the "track". This is a reference frequency that is synchronized to the on-board "clock" in the CD player. a very nifty bit of circuitry, basically a phase-locked loop, constantly adjusts the "spin" motor speed. Also buried in there is a "time-code, for the convenience of the user. Sony and Philips were seriously on the ball when they cooked this up in the late 1970s Then, referring back to the audio output from the D/A converter, just before that stage is a "buffer" that briefly holds the de-shuffled and corrected digital "chunks before clocking them out at a precise rate. As for frequency response, CD Audio "brick-walls" at MAX 19KHz. Put simply, in digital recording the MAXIMUM frequency recordable, is HALF (ore less) than the sample rate. 44.1Khz divided by two leaves you with 22.05 KHz. To be sure, this was trimmed back to 19Hhz. . The catch is that this, theoretically can block some "pleasing" intermodulation products that may occur if the original 30 IPS, 1/2 inch two track master id played through serious gear to a listener with the proverbial "golden ears"..Standard FM stereo radio "brickwall"s at about 16Khz, because the stereo sub-carrier, 38Khz, AND its harmonic product, 19KHz, have to be filtered out with analogue filter circuits to prevent weird and nasty intermodulation effects. See also "psycho-acoustics". Vari-speed CD players have LOTS of fun with that feature. there are LOTS of numbers being crunched to output music at an altered tempo but NO pitch change. That "buffering" was also a key to the "Discman" type personal pocket CD player. They do a "wind-up" before the music comes out, because several seconds of audio was being shoved into a BIG buffer from which it is clocked out and converted to analogue. . Got all your treasures on a multi-gigabyte SSD? Tough luck when THAT fails to read. Cheers from an old audio bloke!! Now, back to J J Cale and Eric Clapton on the Road to Escondido
Problem is perfect doesn't always sound best. I by far prefer the colours and harmonic distortions that a good vinyl and tube amp set up produce. So unbelievably relaxing
I’m in my 60’s and I agree that kids don’t have enough music to engage with these days. Growing up in the 70’s we had radio stations like WNEW in NYC where they’d often play an entire album side. When the albums came out we’d listen to it start to finish and pour over the liner notes. My daughter, in her 20’s complains that she can’t find new music. I don’t blame her. I listen to a pretty varied mix on Spotify, and each Monday I used to look forward to their ‘Discover Weekly’ which is supposed to be a curated list that hopefully turns you on to new stuff based on your listening habits. It’s always songs I’ve heard dozens of times. Whatever algorithm they’re using sucks. One bright note - I still have a few hundred albums and my kids gifted me a new turntable so lots of times we’ll put on an album over morning coffee. I guess there’s still hope?
I'm about to play Chicago's 25 or 6 to 4 for another hour. Sometimes it's the Rolling Stones' Gimme Shelter. Sometimes it's Earth Wind & Fire's Fantasy. Last week it was Seal's Kiss from a Rose. A few weeks back it was Journey's Don't Stop Believing. Hey Jude was a few months ago. Over and over and over and over. Never once! Never! It's true about the trance. Music kept me sane throughout a difficult childhood in a dysfunctional family. It was an escape. A refuge. It took me away for just enough time to recover from my mother's unsettling presence and be ready for her return from work.
Ted, you have finally voiced my position on listening to music. I come from an extensive family of rock and blues musicians. Most are gone now but for most of my long life, I have "experienced" music. I know no other way to describe it but my mind becomes one with the music and I experience a high such as my coke-loving friends have been seeking and not found. I have regretted my inability to play music like so many of my friends/relatives could and did at the highest level of professionalism (playing with Eric Clapton, Phil Collins, Stevie Ray Vaugh and others of their set, as well as BB King, Luther Allison and others in the blues world). But I have always described myself as the perfect audience. I "melded" completely with the awesome live music I was lucky to have experienced, and was able to give back such support and heart to my beloved musicians on stage. Thank you for showing me that I was not "crazy" in my experiences and instead was lucky and honored to have lived through those times. Gods bless!!
You are speaking on legendary musicians. Those guys are all legends in the business. And you should feel grateful to have been around in that era. My generation, the Millennials, could only wish they had half the talent and passion you guys had.
Thankyou so much Ted and Rick. As a secondary music teacher and musician, I'm banging on about these very issues daily and often feel like I'm on my own or stuck in a negative feed back loop. I'm always telling younger generations about the beauty and depth music can bring to your life. Wonderful interview and great to see others thinking along the same lines.
The problem with NFTs is that you don't sell the content itself, but a token that contains a link to the artwork. Imagine that, instead of buying a single, you buy access to the single, without the assurance that the single will always be available. There is a big difference of having access to an NFT and having access to the thing the NFT is linked to. This is why NFTs will fail.
Great talk! Lot's of truths! One thing I'd like to add, that adds to the dire situation with today's music (IMHO): It's the question about where young and contemporary musicians derive their motivation from to make music? Being a musician myself I can testify that when I started making music back in the days, my main motivation was the music itself, the creation of something new, the ambition to get better at what I was doing, as well as not doing what everybody else does. I believe this is true for most of us older musicians, and this approach has always been the driving force for musicians to find new ways and thus make music evolve to something new and exciting, or even develop a unique style of playing on their instruments. Nobody sounds like Coltrane, Miles Davis or Wes Montgomery. Now, we live in times of hyper commercialised music, where the youngsters experience music as a means to make loads of money more than anything else. Their rarely experience music in its truest art form, because the music they consume was already made with the sole intention of making money. Naturally, if that's how you know music, your motivation for picking up music will be to make money, and not to advance in the art form. So they take up music, and since that's all they know, they start "creating" lots and lots of very similar music with the same chords and beats, because a) that's the entire palette of sounds they know, and b) because it's about the money, so they make use of proven recipes. It's only getting worse, as we tend to draw inspiration from the music we got socialised with. If all you know is plastic pop, how can you come up with anything else than plastic pop? It's like the circle of colours. If you know all the colours, know how to mix them, your painting will be full of different shades and colours. If on the other hand all you know is one shade of green and yellow, your paintings can only consist of these two colours.
The laughs and the joy Rick is expressing here whenever his mind is blown is the cherry on the cake of this incredible UA-cam moment! The gold standard of interviews…
What an absolutely fascinating and liberating conversation. You must've had a blast. What a brilliant and insightful man whose passion is infectious. I fell in love with music all over again after listening to this. 48 years of playing and writing and wondering if anyone still had what I had as a kid, and in 1 hour and 18 minutes, I gratefully found it still exists. Thank you, Rick, for blessing the rest of us with all the amazing content you come up with.
I haven’t finished the whole interview yet, and I didn’t know who Ted Gioia is (besides that one article about Spotify shady plays), but it’s already amazing! Thank you, Rick! I hope to see more of these interviews, podcast format suits you really well!
Stellar interview. “It’s the decision makers who are creating the music culture,” Ted is on point. So many artists and so much great music will never be heard or found.
It's disgusting really. The crap they play at the gym is the reason I stopped going. Same thing at stores. I feel like screaming that's how much I hate current what-they-call- "music."
It just came in to my mind when you talked about altered state of mind after 10 minutes of listening to the music. I remembered the success of EDM music. The first thing "musical educated" people always dislike about it is that it is too repetative and always the same but in reality EDM artists are selling 1hour songs/mixes without a problem.
I used to joke with friends that if track is less than 10 minutes long it's not good. Of course that was just a joke, but any track that could go on over 10 minutes was almost always great.
Daft Punk literally came into mind for me after reading this comment & thread, I mean they've probably made a few songs that are a bit longer but they aren't generic tho.
Class. Absolute class interview. He succinctly summarises some very relevant issues. One hopes young people listen to this very insightful presentation. Certainly, a copy of this interview needs to be sent to each of the music moguls. Excellent interview, Rick. This could easily serve as a model example of how interviews should be done on UA-cam
As a life long music listener, lover and audiophile, I am here to tell you both. Vinyl is alive and technology supports better turn table transfer to your speakers with clean and beautiful sound at low costs that used to cost thousands of $$. I am playing vinyl that I took care of for 65 years that sounds better today than the day I bought it.
As a singer songwriter I’ve never really pursued a music career ! I have figured out that even if I did get a deal I would be ripped off and controlled to the point you can’t play it own your music !! Great interview and video Rick !! 👍
DEVO was sooooooooo far ahead of their time! The DEeVOlution of mankind, man, I'm tellin YOU. Rick, you're a genius and I LOVE your interviews... you actually let the subjects TALK! Imagine?!?!? THANK YOU SO MUCH!
Back in the 70s, Billy Joel recorded a song called The Entertainer (which he still plays live). A lot of the song is still incredibly relevant, but when you were talking about the song length, it reminded me of Billy's line: "If you're gonna have a hit you gotta make it fit, so they cut it down to 3:05." This is a song from 1974, and we're in 2023, and it's incredible how true the message of it still is.
You know what's great about this interview? Rick didn't interrupt Ted like so many other interviewers do. Only short affirmations that he's listening, and following what Ted is saying.
It's like the 10+ minute song of interviews.
I always thought that Larry King was the best interviewer. He would let the guest talk without interruption
Triple thumbs up for you rinsight & perspective Brit
Rick is the most respectful interviewer I know.
There's no debate or disagreement in the interview. Also, conversations are much more interesting than lectures.
@@elderbob100 one of Larry King's secrets was he didn't do a pre-interview. He wanted the discussions spontaneous. He felt the less he knew, the better the interview. Too often the best bits are in the pre-interview, and when you try to recreate them in the interview they fall flat.
"I've studied this..."
"I've looked into this..."
The number of times Ted started a point saying this was incredibly refreshing. What an insightful and intellectual conversation. Actual INFORMED thoughts on display here. What a rarity in this world we live in. Thank you for having this talk, guys. Ted, I'm a fan now. And Rick, you're a gift .
If Reddit Quora or Wiki is his study sources which often is the case with a western person then he wasted his life on lies and pointless information since lots of those places have a toxic community and is focused on silencing the truth.
@@minmogrovingstrongandhealthy Did you even bother to look into him? What he's written? What he's researched? Since I saw this, I have. This is not the situation, here, I can assure you. 🤣 This guy was winning awards for his work before Wikipedia and Reddit were even a thing.
@@PeteOliva Good for him. If he was digging deep then I respect that but have to atm only take your word for it.
I don't have time of my life to waste on researching pointless things.
I just say that today's 99% of the source for information people use are out of their ass or the platforms I mentioned and many others social media where attention seeking idiots spam whatever they feel like and corporate western scum spam lies to satisfy their consumer driven agendas.
Also his rewards and that type of knowledge wont put food on my table, hard work in the natural environment will, so as preserving it, so all that from up above is a hard pass.
With that said I can't take seriously anyone anymore and the main point of my comment which expands your 1st comment.
Does that make sense? I hope it does.
Have a great day.
@@PeteOliva Yet I got an email from him quoting some reddit and twitter feeds posting some edited and faked output from BingAI. No use talking in an echochamber.
The Scientific Mind STUDDDIESSSS
even
earning
No Thing
Nada
Rien
S. D. G
Sole Dei Gratiae
Bach
It's amazing to listen to his analysis of Spotify, and what he thought was going to happen. Knowing what happened just about a half year later. With Spotify stopping payments to small artists. Which means that the majority of royalty payments are now going to the power players in the industry. He was pretty spot on.
I like Frank Zappas take on making music; "Theres a certain kind of person who likes my music, and I make it for them" (paraphrasing). Effectively, make what you want to make and you'll manifest an audience who appreciates it.
I like Lou Reed's take: "One chord, fine. Two chords, your pushing it. Three chords and you're getting into jazz" 🙂
What an amazing conversation. I would love a part 2 to this! Who is with me?!
MIND BOGGGLINGGGGGG!!!!
Would be great
Yes, Gioia should be a regular guest here. I'm an A.F. of M. life member who's played Classical at a professional level since 1981 and I couldn't agree more.
yup
this was exactly what I was going to say!
This video is the most intellectually stimulating and informative hour of content I've watched in goodness knows how long. I have never heard these topics related to music framed in such a brilliant and well communicated manner. Anyone with any level of influence in the industry needs to hear what Ted is saying and really pay attention to it.
what’s your perspective on records being an old form of tech in regards to the masses flocking to “vintage” in all forms: lofi instagram pics, low powered vw buses, vhs tape collections, NES/flappy bird… most forms of modern tech have extremely popular “vintage” niches, and it even extends beyond tech to items like shoes and jerseys. Is it possible musicians haven’t provided enough “vintage” offerings to be consumed?
I have gone through only on the first half, but I felt that I recovered a couple of IQ points.
@@jasonjon I think all this nostalgia hunting comes from over saturated markets, people get disenfranchised and look for simpler more tangible things. There’s also just aging demographics, just like how boomers had all the cash 20yrs ago now Gen X has cash and we seek out things that make us feel young haha
Indeed
Totally agree. As an independent artist I am taking notes 📝
the audience is smart... and underestimated... Joni Mitchell did a radio interview on the CBC in Canada quite a few years ago and I never forgot what she said:
"Everybody knows the music business is run by crooks. At least in the old days, the crooks liked music"...
What a memorable quote.
good one
Joni was/is a brilliant mind and observer of the "business"
This is amazing, think of Bob Dylan who is not really a singer, he doesn't do 2minute songs but he made his mark. Pink Floyd!! Can put you in a trance.
And the pill if swallowed, is name the crooks.
Please have him back on as a guest and talk about more stuff. This is probably my favorite video on the channel now.
I interviewed Ted a few years ago for his book about the Delta blues. Beyond being intelligent and talented, he was the most well-spoken author whom I've ever interviewed.
when he said, an environment that doesn't allow creators to take chances, that really sums it up. and ultimately that ends creating a corrupt culture, art taking the second seat. great interview
I'm kind of a gadfly on UA-cam because iv been bitching about unimaginative bass lines long before UA-cam came about. My peeve is a microcosm of that point.
Due to decades of consolidation we are down to the big three record companies (Sony, Warner and Universal) which control 80 percent of the market. Add to that the 1996 Telecommunications Act which allowed all the big media companies to buy up all the radio stations. Before 1996 you could only own 20 FM stations. iheart radio and Cumulous now own about 2000 stations. Back in the day most radio stations were independently owned and programed and they worked with independent reginal record promoters. Today's corporate radio is pretty much top down structured and programed from central headquarters using flawed listener data surveys. Back in the day smaller sized companies could sign artists that they believed in artistically and nurture their careers over time. They could work with regional program directors and they could compete and get exposure. The corporate music business system today is pretty much a closed corporate system (at least in the larger markets) and it's much more focused on quick profits and less about artistry...
@@frankmarsh1159 Thank you!
Well said. I think there's a monopoly going on. Many old favorite radio stations have either disappeared or changed style. Now the question is
Is this monopoly coming to the Internet? Is it already in place?
@@USAMehdi There is a scene in the movie Coal Miners Daughter where Loretta Lynn and her husband drive around looking for radio towers. They stop at radio stations and walk in and ask the DJ to play their record. They mentioned on the Ken Burns Country Music documentary how that could never happen in today's corporate radio system. Back in the day radio was regional and most stations were independently owned and operated. People could call in and ask the DJ to play a record. The first time the Beatles were ever played on the radio in America was when a fourteen year old girl called a radio station in Washington DC and asked them to play the Beatles and they did it. No corporate manager had to approve of the decision. Tom Petty had a song called the Last DJ who plays what he wants to play.
He didn't say that- he said it was the decision makers, the ppl deciding who gets played and who doesn't- the ppl who make the top song lists and so forth- that were afraid to take any chances- not the creators. He specifically said the creators are creating great stuff- and he's right- good music is out there. But you have to proactively seek it out- the powers that be aren't going to drop it in your lap like they used to because that no longer fits their business model. Their model is 1. Push whatever artists and songs they've been paid to promote and 2. Make ppl engage with the music enough to subscribe, but not enough to consume very much music- once they subscribe Spotify is better off if they never listen to even one song and just keep paying that subscription.
Just when you might think that Rick Beato doesn't have anything left to pull out of his extremely deep pockets, he reaches a little further and pulls this out. A fascinating interview. You, sir, are for many of us the most important commentator on/professor of all things music. Thank you!
I agree. Thank you for your dedication Rick.
Yes!
This to me is the content that makes this channel. The shorts and the unscripted videos are what lose my interest.
Dear Rick, I'm a Musician from Germany. This is one of the most interesting Videos I've ever watched and listened to on UA-cam in 20 years. Thank you so much, more of this! Great content on your Channel overall , may you get more great Guests and Topics onto your Channel in the Future . Love, Timmy
This is the single most erudite, intellectually stimulating, and frankly the absolute best podcast I’ve ever seen or listened to in my whole life. I cannot praise this sort of dialogue enough.
I am still in favour of big corps and government controlling music. The world is becoming too chaotic. We are in a climate emergency. There are racists, bigots, transphobics and discrimination is everywhere. We need to stop the population from acting so crazy and listen more to the big governments and corporations to keep them under control as they clearly can't control themselves. I am in favour of censorship. The population are sheep and they need a Shepard. Leaders like Trudeau are the perfect leader to lead everyone into the light.
MIND BOGGGLINGGG!!!!!
Agree.
It wasn’t life changing enough for me. Sorry.
Very well put.
I believe we lost an important "arm" of music when the merchandising was reduced to cassettes, CDs and then NOTHING. I am referring to the Album and not for the vinyl enclosed but for the wonderfullness of the album artwork, from simple headshots and group shots to the complexity of SPLHCB and graphics that offered your individual interpretation. The hours getting lost in those images, WHILE the music PLAYED were priceless.
Good point.
I totally agree not to mention you have something physical to own instead of a measly download.
If I could get the CD with album sized artwork and lyric sheets, I’d pay extra! Of course I would also need the CD covers with the art and lyrics, too!
You can, if you want, get way more artwork, group photos bios etc. online than you ever could in the LP era plus you can listen to a lossless sound and even email your music to any friend worldwide FREE!
@@lamper2 exactly correct
It’s almost like…… you lose one thing and gain another, like most advancements in technology.
Hey, if people are missing the physical, fine. Personally, I have over 12,000 CDs-- so no one can say I haven’t spent the money to support the industry. Whether the artist share of money spent was better than today, is another debate
But- to quickly look at credits on a dozen albums if I’m doing some jumping around, certainly is faster online, and for soooooo many albums there wasn’t that much on the sleeve, and once I’ve read it, now I’m fighting the storage wars….
YMMV, but listing to hours of radio, you don’t see credits either, yet for me personally that was one of the most valuable and educational inputs ever
Radio- free, wireless monetized streaming. For decades. No meta data. No artwork or credits.
Data easily downloaded to reel to reel, then cassette, DAT, minidisc, and now hard drive, if you like. Globally available with no subscription for a century or so and counting (subscription model in U.K. Etc)
Yes, let musicians produce whatever they care to. And, let us have it available to us. Most of all, let musicians be truly compensated for their magic. We seem to take their work for granted, since music is everywhere.
Well said...
Musicians have always been poorly paid. Niccolò Paganini's best paid gig was playing infront of a jail so they could break out a prisoner.
Musicians can already do everything themselves, except for: Promotion. Well they can try to play the IG and Tik Tok game, but realistically that is only going to work for very few. How to solve this? By empowering fans to support artists and rewarding them for it. It is actually pretty simple and already being done.
It is actually true of many "things that seem to be fun" professions. Some ad agencies pay their mail room staff more than their creatives.
Mozart was treated like dirt by the aristocracy.
He ate with the kitchen help. He was kept waiting for hours in cold hallways, before the nobles were ready to be distracted and amused by the freakish child prodigy.
They trotted Amadeus out to play piano, then gave him a clunky gold watch, instead of cash, and hurried him out of the castle, through the servants portal, not wishing to be tainted by such lowlife.
will . i . am said that if you want to make money in music, be a credit card company, or run your own festivals.
Music has never been valued much. It was not even "listened to" as a recreational activity until recently in human history!
Music was just a peripheral behavior, an accompaniment of a more esteemed civil performance or cult act, an aspect of a public ceremony or secret ritual, not an art worthwhile on its own, or an enjoyable leisure pursuit in itself, separate from the special events.
Great interview. As a struggling local singer-songwriter who is out in the trenches, I can tell you there is great new music out there on the local and regional level, but good luck ever hearing any of it because no major supports it and their monopoly power controls what most people hear. If the majors release something new that does not completely suck, I am astounded. Innovation and the best of what is new is coming from local artists who produce their own music, but they are not likely to ever get rewarded for it.
All "Art " ---there's countless artists everywhere but the only known are from 'special' galleries .....
So when are U going to start a real UNION of Artists /musicians - and 'own your own ' website!!! geez
--add -- at 45 minutes only Spoty - yet he's listened to 800 albums ( by May 31:31 )
and no mention UPFRONT about Bandcamp ?? etc where does he find all these
' independent labels ' -- get going !
True and sad. Hoping for a change
The truth is very simple: once you find your way to impress broader audience, the established record labels may show up, offer you a contract, charge 70 to 90 percent of earnings for their support. But eventually, the gross sum may be large enough for you to compensate all the years of struggle.
Meanwhile, do everything you can to become institution by yourself and to build your ground for bargaining against the labels. No unions, no others, nobody except your family will care of you and your eventual rise and success.
The o ly thing they're actually talking about is $$$$ and you know it
@@TigiBorg In many ways, yes you are correct. However, how many bands started off good and ended up terrible once they got a major record deal and had to start doing as they were told? 🤷♂️
This is why classical music changed my life. Finally a piece of music that can keep me fully engrossed for 20, 30, 40… 80 minutes straight. It’s an entirely different experience than listening to a really good song for 3 or 4 minutes.
The klingons say 36 minutes max
the first time I really actively LISTENED to a Beethoven symphony permanently changed my life forever
that was 17 years ago for me and life has never been the same since that day
could not agree with you more my friend
@@NICUofficial not that great and they say its the best
Try Coltrane, or Miles
That’s how I felt the first time I listened to Ravel’s Bolero. It’s hypnotizing.
This man has a beautiful synthesis of intellect and heart
What I love most about Rick’s interviews is that he knows how to set them moving in a direction, and then let the patter be about the guest, not about *himself*! Too many interviewers seem most concerned that you’ll be impressed with how smart *they* are. I find that nauseating, and Rick has none of that. Go Rick!
Amen!
Rick, this comment deserves it's own thread. You are a very talented interviewer. I've seen it happen, far too often, that a UA-camr gets a power guest on, and then crumbles under the load. You did a fabulous job of steering this interview while maintaining a very light grasp on the wheel. Kudos!!
Tremendous interview. I’m a teacher, so I know that even in education the curriculum is built to pander; but when you teach texts that are challenging, it elevates the class’s ability to think critically, communicate thoughtfully, engage intellectually and play gracefully with ideas.
... but that's not what the powers that be want
As a student who is 17, and just starting the journey of music studies and music making, this interview hones into the importance of learning how important it is to develop music that transcends the material world and elevates the mind. Hoping to expand the limits and reach the world with 10 minute tracks. Thank you for an informative and encouraging conversation.
Make your music as long as it needs to be to tell the story you want to tell! Don't just repeat stuff over and over to make it 10 minutes (ie, respect your listener)...but also don't sell good ideas short by trying to artificially shorten them and taking out critical sections. Short isn't inherently bad and long isn't inherently good, and vice-versa. The problem is that we've gotten into a profit-driven dogma with shortening attention spans.
Hopefully you can find people in your generation who still have the patience and attention span to listen to your songs all the way through.
Well said! I'm with you on that goal.
If you serve music the universe has reached you. The rest is less relevant; think of all the musicians who fail to reflect the deeper secrets music has to tell...
@@dtd1986 It’s not always about patience. I like plenty of bands that create songs that can be 10 minutes or more. The problem is that there is so much available music to listen to, and not enough time to do it. If I’m stuck on one album, I’m missing out on other albums. If I’m streaming and my playlist has a few 20 minute songs I’m missing out on other much shorter songs in the same playlist that I may actually enjoy as much or more.
Speaking of attention span, I thought there is no way I'm watching an interview that is this long. I thorougly enjoyed it in its entirety. Ted is incredible intelligent and interesting. Great interview, Rick.
What I love most about this intelligent conversation is that they talk and they listen to each other without talking over top of each other like most interviewers and interviewees do these days, so refreshing.
Have Ted on again. People, musicians, executives need to hear what this man has to say about the music industry.
Great interview Rick, as usual.
Yes, again please!
Executives don't want to since it implies to earn less profits. People and musicians are the ones who can make this change.
Never hear of him before but this dude is fascinating, and Beato interviewed him to perfection. None of those five minute questions designed to make the interviewer look smart, just the minimum needed to explore the most interesting and insightful avenues. Really impressive on both sides of the conversation and really gave me insights I've never considered.
The big take away from this excellent interview is Rick and Ted should start a record label! You could crowd fund the start up cost from this community. Bach Records
F yeah!!
And then they could develop the SuperVinyl! I'm giving money if they do!
..and another streaming platform. Google's motto "Do no evil"? More like "Do only evil" these days.
They do it for coffee (allegedly)
Why not fair trade Music?
Bachatheny records.. pays homage to both favs of Rick
@@TheDredConspiracy loll can't be worse than Sony
As a music therapist of 25 plus years I find talks like these so educational. Another point I have noticed in regards to running groups with people is that the common song is leaving us. When you think communities knew the same music for thousands and thousands of years and now individuals have access to such a variety of music from around the world, it's makes it challenging to share music as a group.
regarding the 3 minute songs: Billy Joel wrote already in 1974:
"I am the entertainer
I come to do my show
You heard my latest record
It's been on the radio
Ah, it took me years to write it
They were the best years of my life
It was a beautiful song but it ran too long
If you're gonna have a hit you gotta make it fit
So they cut it down to 3:05"
My thought, too.
@@goodun2974
Dat organ solo, got me n2 The Doors!
14:38 "People don't have the attention span for anything longer"
The TV industry largely disproves this. Some of the most popular and beloved shows of the last 15 years have been complicated, artistic masterpieces that ppl will happily spend hours upon hours binging and rewatching over and over. This shows that people are willing to engage with complex art and spend large amounts of time with it, but the people in charge of major labels refuse to learn anything from other forms of entertainment that are currently kicking music's butt. Overly compressed mastering is also an issue because everything sounding louder reduces the emotional impact of the parts of songs that are supposed to be more exciting so ppl don't feel as connected to the music even when it is well written and skillfully performed.
That observation I made myself some time ago. Everything in the entertainment business became awfully mediocre. Except movies and (some) tv series. Some are really mind challenging.
Attention span and time spent aren't the same thing. Yes, one spends hours binging that show, but the show is in form of episodes that are way shorter than a movie, and each episode is delivered in fast sequence of events, quick camera cuts one after the other. Nickelodeon for adults. It is possible (and actually preferred) to engage people for long times, by exploiting (and further shortening) their attention span.
@@compfox it also depends on the Movie most mainstream Hollywood movies are not great and you notice they cater to the low attention Spann audience having just short scenes with dialogues and/or let the characters have their easy to understand dialogues or constants qibs / jokes death pool style right in the action scenes most mainstream Hollywood movies don’t have long scenes without Action. When you compare this with older Hollywood movies especially from the 40/50/60 ara where they had long scenes with people just having a conversation its night and Day. It’s a bit ironic I watch a lot of Anime and most Animes beside the in the vain of DBZ have more and longer scenes where characters just talk then modern Life Action Hollywood Movies. I stopped watching Hollywood movies when I watch something it’s mostly Anime and sometimes K-dramas
@@mtc5 yes I believe the same but it’s not just series most mainstream movies rarely have longer scenes where characters just talk anymore. There have to be constant action otherwise the producers think people loose interest and look down at their phones again. It’s funny nowadays most Anime got more and longer dialogues
One main problem with most people is that they are visually oriented, in that their ears are not as well developed as their eyes. As a teacher of music, it is more difficult to always stay in the sphere of sounds without reverting back to the visual. Even printed music becomes a necessity for musicians. The look of instruments is even a visually pleasing experience to children because they are not the things of every day life. Maybe I oversimplified this problem or I am totally off base. But it is true music has become the servant for the drama in movies, TV shows, media in general, which all started with Opera in 1600 and of course Greek Dramas.
The concept of, “If it’s interesting to me, it’ll be interesting to you.” It’s so simple, yet psychologically profound.
It seems to work for Rick everytime,... Ted is equally interesting.
Thank you Rick for bringing up the magic in our musical culture! Thank you Sir!
The most encouraging thing I’ve seen in recent years is the rise of younger musicians using UA-cam as a platform to get their music into the public realm. There are some phenomenal young bands and musicians making superb music, based on creativity, musicianship, making nods to past music, looking forward to the future, and giving some faith that, however monetised the mainstream record labels, record charts and radio stations get, there will always be real bands, musicians, writers and artists who are interested in producing genuinely engaging new music. Just don’t look for it in the MSM!
Tbf UA-cam is pretty much just as monetized and corporate as any record label at this point
Rick is a treasure. And as you might discern, not just musically. He's a wonderful human being. So generous a teacher. And joyful to teach us. Kudos to Mr. Beato!
In some ways you can say that love of longer form music was the reason so many albums from the 70'a-90's endure today, we fell in love w/ the *albums* as well as the songs in them. I remember when my friends and I would have album listening party's, Pink Floyd's Dark Side/The Wall, Fleetwood Mac's Rumours, Queen's A Night at the Opera, Zeppelin's discography, the Beatles Rubber Soul, Sgt Peppers, Abbey Road etc, all these artists carefully chose the songs included and which side of the album they played on. The last song on side one would continue onto side two.... THIS is one of the biggest shames of the state of music today, the loss of the "Album Experience" when you would hear that whirr click and rush to your record player to flip to side two....great memories :)
It was so much fun, too, to think about, what are the greatest album sides?
@@richarddoan9172 I am CONSTANTLY requesting for the artist I follow for her and her family (HUGE Beatles fans, as a family they often perform Beatles songs including "Oh Darling") that some day, they might perform Abbey Road's Side 2 (She sang "Because" acapella in high school)... IMO if someone were to ask me my all time favorite Side 2, Abbey Road's wins for me every time :) (Her Dad said he'd be honored, but it's a bit daunting to take on one of the all time great album sides)
@@goodun2974 Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, an amazing album experience album :)
I get the “album experience” as rewarding as it is, the fact is, most people, including avid music lovers, abandoned it as soon as the ability to cherry pick their favorite songs became widely available. The mix tape.
Many record albums contained “filler” In fact, aside from thematic pieces like “Dark Side” etc, few were actually listening to entire records in one sitting. My point is simply that the fog of nostalgia has obscured the fact that fewer albums were worth listening to all the way through than we think.
So cassettes, mix tapes and the ability to create personal play lists eventually set the stage for streaming.
Today Gioia’s “super record” exists in systems like Qubuz, Tidal and Roon etc. with hand held music players with incredibly high quality sound..Astell and Kern et al that can both store and stream music and “hold” thousands of songs played through headphones and in ear monitors rivaling the best large speakers.
In fact a system like Roon can organize massive (really limitless) libraries and provide far more information than any Record Album Sleeve.
Surprised Rick is seemingly not aware…he must be!
@@JohnLnyc "mix tapes" existed back then as well, they're called cassette tapes, that didn't stop me from enjoying the "album experience" from that first unsealing of the album, to that fresh vinyl smell, to that first time you dropped the needle. "The album experience" also involved appreciating the artist's thinking about the ordering and placement of their songs on the album, Which song introduced side 2 of an album, how one song's effect/emotions could lead into the next, something the Beatles, Zeppelin and Floyd were masters at. You lose the synergy one song had to the next, or the one before when you compare an album to a 'mix tape' you put together.
"Mix Tapes" don't come w/ those visceral, physical experiences. I enjoyed that vinyl experience for decades. I still buy vinyl from my favorite artist if they're available.
They are not comparable experiences IMO
What a brilliant interview. I'm not even a musician, just a long time fan of music who was a teenager in the late 80s. I found this discussion fascinating.
This needs to be required listening in every music program on the planet.
HELLO NORTHWESTERN! HELLO PEABODY CONSERVATORY! :)
found it by Sheer Acci Denttt!
If this interview was a book, it would be underlined, highlighted, heavily annotated in the margins and placed on the top shelf. Awesome, thank you Rick!
That's great but I would point out that this 'book' wouldn't have a single footnote or evidence, period. The most salient line of this interview was "I can't prove it, but...." 31:21. So maybe we should take this interview with a huge grain of salt and realize that it's an old timer shaking his fist at the clouds. Not that there's anything wrong with that, that can even be entertaining.
@@SPCEMN3 I take your point, but I didn't get the "old man yells at clouds" vibe at all. There are plenty of people who gripe about the music industry, and they usually have their specific ax to grind. I though he was relatively dispassionate and even offered some hope! But yes, it's his opinion, but a fairly learned opinion.
When they were discussing substack, I always felt like interrupting the to say: "There's a thing called Bandcamp". It is basically substack for musicians, right down to the 10% percent fee on sales. Regardless, awesome and fascinating conversation!
great point.
Also, how is this mysterious "super vinyl" not just good ol' CDs?
YES! Keep playing, let it keep going, dig deeper, listen, build, manifest, play and react, respond, communicate, 'Keep Talking', let the tape roll, go further...as a musician who has experienced the transcendental truth & magic of what happens when musicians play/communicate with each other and follow where the music leads and go for that unreal journey...and feel/hear what happens when you aren't afraid to go deeper, go further, take the trip...it's something that has no equal in a quick clip or a short burst...and like everything else that means something, it takes you being willing to spend the time to go there
Loved this discussion! Ted went to my high school (Hawthorne, CA - also home of the Beach Boys) and we both worked on the school newspaper together back in the 70's. I was actually his Editor-in-Chief for one year, and looking back I should have been taking orders from him! Ted is a fantastic writer and great intellect. Absolutely understands the convoluted history of recorded music and the problems with how we distribute, consume and monetize music in the digital age. Rick is always great, but the two of them together opened some doors to topics that are rarely discussed or even thought about. Music consumption and marketing has changed radically in the last two decades and not for the better. Bravo!
This discussion is almost the exact internal discussion I had with myself about where I get my music from. I don’t see Apple or Spotify as entities that care about the music, which clearly they don’t. I have looked and searched for a platform that is more (or ideally all) about the music. The closest I have come to this in a streaming platform is Tidal. That being said, I have found myself at 41 years of back at record stores buying physical albums. It puts more money into the pockets of artists and there is a local connection through my locally-owned weirdo record shop. Above all, it makes music fun and enjoyable again for me. That’s really the point of music for me.
Tidal is great
I wish they had 24bit 48k quality selections
I have a love/hate relationship with Spotify. I hate it because I know they don't pay artists well, but I love it because I have discovered more artists through Spotify than I ever have with any other media or platform. Some of my favorite new bands came right out of Spotify suggestions.
Right on Alan! We should always remember that music is fun.
I’d say Spotify has been responsible for my discovery of so many new bands and artists I would’ve never heard about, as well as rediscovering older music and even 90s-00s obscure/forgotten artists I disregarded or could’ve never found at the time. The song radio and playlists have been amazing, as has UA-cam’s algorithm in its own unique way… and honestly I have never listened to as many artists in any other era as ever before and it has led me to go to more live shows than ever before. My experience of new music is that the production levels and musicality is off the scale compared to past artists.
@@johninama585 That's OK. As soon as we find music we should search them out on their social media and find out how to get money into heir pockets (whether through subscriptions, PayPal, or direct album purchases).
I immediately was reminded of how excited I was in 1967 when the "long version" of the Doors "Light My Fire" was played on the radio. It was 7 minutes long. It was an immediate disappointment when the "short version" was played. It was cut to only be just under 3 minutes. This has been one of the GREAT conversations you have had.
The organ solo is killerrr
Yes, my response was the same!
I think Light My Fire is one of the worst songs ever written or performed, with the exception of Stairway To Heaven. You have my sympathy.
For me it was the 10min version of "when the music is over"
I felt the same way about 'Time Has Come Today' by the Chambers Brothers. I consider it an injustice to play the shortened version!
I want more of this guy ... please bring him back ...
It's refreshing to hear genuinely intelligent people talking intelligently about music!
Trance, intellectual appreciation, and catharsis through dance or some other form of artistic expression - those are big reasons for music. The best compliment I've received as a musician is "you guys made me forget about my life for a few moments..." That's why we do what we do. Get into the music and disconnect from your own reality for a few moments. Then return to your life inspired to do better.
Agree. Dance & music are inseparable. Both inspired us & uplift our soul.
Yes. And coordinated group dancing has extraordinary healing power, as does group and choral singing.
Edit: Extraordinary positive power. Not just healing.
@@mjinba07 Yes. I used to judge singing, man. But you are 100% correct.
The best compliment I ever got was "I liked it when it stopped."
Yes! I get that feeling anytime I play for a bit. It all goes away. To give that feeling to someone else makes me so happy.
LOVE that you're doing a podcast Rick! Extra points for using your speaker cabs as legs for the table :)
They really are not there. They are green screened. :)
Right On!!! Good catch!
Haha!! I love that people noticed :) Ted liked it too lol.
I caught that, too! I went down to the comments to mention it and it was included in the first comment. 🤣
Call me pedantic, but I kept getting bothered that the top wasn't centered.
What a fantastic conversation between you and Ted Gioia Rick. Mindblowing. I will have to watch it again. Thank you so much.
Retired drummer / sound tech mode ON!
Great interview! Always glad to hear or read new twists from anyone who has “been there and done that”. Learn from the the successes and the mistakes of others; life is too short to do everything from scratch.
Vinyl, being ANALOGUE, is pretty amazing stuff. Bandwidth? The old CD4 Quadraphonic disc carried two conventional Left / Right" signals in the groove, but modulated ON TOP of the audible information were the two REAR speaker channels. To recover this extra information, you need, not only a "CD4 capable" pre-amp, but a specially-ground diamond stylus: ( Shibata" or, these days referred to as "Fine-line") A "Fineline" rock has a parabolic form and edges fine enough to read 40KHz plus, without smearing them right off the groove walls. Playing a CD4 disc with a dodgy low compliance conical stylus will wreck the disc's 4-channel ability. Vinyl is an early physical manifestation of "DC to Light" bandwidth, after a fashion.
Why is most Vinyl black? PURE vinyl is WHITE, but the record companies "figured" that the mug punters would not accept a colour change as well ast a speed change, so they included a finely powdered colouring agent (basically carbon), to not offend delicate sensibilities. Every so often some daring company would release something "special" on white “virgin" vinyl. The other economy thing associated with "black" vinyl is that it is "recyclable" Punch out and discard the "label" and shred and remelt the remainder.. The problem for the purist was that less than pure vinyl contains "impurities" and these show up as "surface noise" on less than stellar pressings. (This is different from "tape hiss" from a poor master tape or "shot-noise" associated with less than perfect transistor circuits).
TWO big problems with vinyl:
1. The physical medium is prone to "contamination". Hence, pops, clicks, or distortion ,usually caused by Krap playback gear that physically damages the groove walls.).
The big killer is the simple fact that the effective linear speed of the stylus in the groove reduces as the "rock" spirals toward the label.. As this happens, the "grooves" contain less and less "usable" high-frequency information. Cartridges are velocity-sensitive devices.
2. This is exacerbated by the industry-standard RIAA curve, built into the recording; HF is boosted and LF is reduced. .Just for giggles, digital formats do pretty much the sane thing for vaguely related reasons..
In the "CD recording process", the equalization of the "cutting master" is first "tilted" (pre-emphasis),then linearly compressed at a precise ratio, EXACTLY the way the classic dbx noise reduction systems work. Then, it is turned into a stream of 0nes and Zeros.
It is all there in the "Red Book" specification if you want some bed-time reading.
As long as the process is precisely reversed on playback, all is OK.
There is a final twist: The digital data is NOT laid down in a linear stream. it gets chopped and "shuffled" in a precisely regulated sequence..
Some "vintage" CDs even carried a reference to this on the "artwork": CIRC, i.e.; Cross Interleaved Reed-Solomon Code.. The object is that, if there is a bit of "crud" on / damage to the disc and the laser cannot get a valid chunk of code, the "bytes / words" that are in that "damaged" chunk come from different parts of the original linear stream. Thus after the next bit of magic; error correction, the tiny "wonky bits are buried across a field of "good" data and all is well. Pretty 'mazing stuff! Then there is the added fun feature that there is, functionally only ONE stream of data being read and rearranged, for TWO "channels". Huh? simple solution, lay them down alternately in the stream, i.e., multiplexing.. At a sample rate of 44.1K per SECOND, you need seriously golden ears to hear the time split. There are some "exotic" CD players that buffer the output streams and clock them out precisely in parallel. As for reading speed; unlike Vinyl, CD rotational speed changes constantly as the playback proceeds. There is an additional "subcode" built into the way the pits are laid out in the "track". This is a reference frequency that is synchronized to the on-board "clock" in the CD player. a very nifty bit of circuitry, basically a phase-locked loop, constantly adjusts the "spin" motor speed. Also buried in there is a "time-code, for the convenience of the user. Sony and Philips were seriously on the ball when they cooked this up in the late 1970s
Then, referring back to the audio output from the D/A converter, just before that stage is a "buffer" that briefly holds the de-shuffled and corrected digital "chunks before clocking them out at a precise rate. As for frequency response, CD Audio "brick-walls" at MAX 19KHz. Put simply, in digital recording the MAXIMUM frequency recordable, is HALF (ore less) than the sample rate. 44.1Khz divided by two leaves you with 22.05 KHz. To be sure, this was trimmed back to 19Hhz. . The catch is that this, theoretically can block some "pleasing" intermodulation products that may occur if the original 30 IPS, 1/2 inch two track master is played through serious gear to a listener with the proverbial "golden ears"..Standard FM stereo radio "brickwalls" at about 16Khz, because the stereo sub-carrier, 38Khz, AND its harmonic product, 19KHz, have to be filtered out with analogue filter circuits to prevent weird and nasty intermodulation effects. See also "psycho-acoustics".
Vari-speed CD players have LOTS of fun with that feature. there are LOTS of numbers being crunched to output music at an altered tempo but NO pitch change.
That "buffering" was also a key to the "Discman" type personal pocket CD player. They do a "wind-up" before the music comes out, because several seconds of audio was being shoved into a BIG buffer from which it is clocked out and converted to analogue.
. Got all your treasures on a multi-gigabyte SSD? Tough luck when THAT fails to read.
As the Doobie Brothers sing: “LISTEN to the MUSIC”,….. NOT the gear or the hype.
Cheers from an old audio bloke!!
Now, back to J J Cale and Eric Clapton on the Road to Escondido.
Im sure your comment was interesting but I didn't read a word of it....why ....tooooo long!!!!!!!
As a 68 year old devotee/enthusiast of music (both recorded and live) I can't adequately describe how deeply Ted's words resonated with me! Thank you!
Thank you Rick for introducing us to Ted. He is an amazing man with a wealth of knowledge. My son is starting to venture into music for school as his career. Your channel, and introducing people like Ted to us, just assist parents like me to nurture my sons path. THANK YOU!
@@johnsmith-ug5tp Wrong. There is always room for successful musicians if they are great. Don’t be one of those downer dad’s. Can’t deal with people that measure success that way. A degree is only worthless if you don’t learn anything. Sounds like you may have gotten one of those?
@@johnsmith-ug5tp Music UA-camrs have found another way to monetise their skill and knowledge.
@@RickBeato Thank you for those words Rick. I am guiding my son into a field he truly loves. I have already told him it's an extremely tough business, but music is more than business in my eyes. Music is a passion and a lifelong skill/artform we all wish we had. My 15 year old just happens to have IT! There is a fantastic UK guy on UA-cam called Andy Guitar, and he has the gift as a teacher. Nothing wrong with that honourable profession!
Great interview. I’m proud of my record collection and can still listen to my first albums bought in the 60’s. My daughter 20 ,is also buying albums and cds and will inherit mine. Years ago when my nephew said he pays for a Spotify subscription I said “ but you’ll never own anything and one day they’ll just take it away” This happened to me with Amazon. Woke up one day and 3 years of my playlists and downloads gone. No recourse. Just greed from the largest retailer in the world. Same with Netflix and Amazon video,less and worse content double the price.
A generation may wake up and realize that they have an access to film or music that is allowed solely at the whim of a corporation. My kids are mystified that I still invest in a CD collection when it is all supposedly free on line. Again, Joni Mitchell - It always seems to be that you don't know what you got till its gone.
The World Economic Forum’s slogan is “You’ll own nothing and be happy”. If your social credit score is too low, you won’t be able to rent the song you want to listen to. Same will apply to movies, video games, etc.
Wow Rick.. That was an amazing article. I am a musician and teacher a bit older than you from Mossel Bay, a small town in South Africa. I introduce and teach my Kids all the great contemporary music from the 50's through to the early 2000's. You and your guest answered so many questions and confirmed so many of my thoughts it was incredible, thank you so much. Love all the stuff you put out, it keeps me inspired..
Ted Gioia is also an excellent musician. The Ted Gioia Trio's "The End of the Open Road" came out in 1988 when I was working at my college's jazz radio station.
Thank you for this great interview.
It’s rare and gratifying that I can listen to somebody talk for an hour and agree with them on everything. I wanted to stand up and cheer at a number of points. Great interview.
Rick, it would be really amazing having the enlightening Ted Gioia on a regular basis to talk about music or culture on your channel. What a great conversation! Congrats! I'm a big fan of both!
Long time listener, first time commenter here. Rick, this podcast blew my mind. A great guest, your conversation with whom was so engaging, so informative, so insightful, I was rapt from minute one. Thank you bringing high value content back to the Internet. Please let this be the first of many more podcasts to come!
This confirms what they are both saying - talk up to your audience and they will listen and respond. Two intelligent people having a lengthy, well-thought out discussion. So refreshing.... again another great interview by Rick and I will certainly dig into Ted's books and articles. Thank you both for this discussion!
What a wonderful interview! I didn't know about Ted Gioia until today. The man is an invaluable treasure. I will definitely be buying some of his books. Thank you so much, Rick!
So glad I'm not alone, I often listen to or perform the same song over and over and over🥰 There are times when I'm obsessing over a song and listen to it for days in a row!😍💜
One of Rick’s best ever videos. Ted”s passionate description of African music “the western musicians couldn’t write it down!!” was fascinating. I totally agree that the Blues was the foundation of modern Rock and Pop music. I always think of the Rolling Stones as proof.
I have written comments on the internet less than 10 times in my life, so this one is definitely the exception, and not the rule. I didn't realize it was going to be a discussion about the business of music and the people in it, rather than the music itself. So when it started, I fully expected not to make it more than 2 or 3 minutes before deciding to choose a different video like the 20 best intros, or an interview including the playing of an instrument, or a why this song is great, etc. But I watched it all the way to the end, and ended up thinking it was too short, because I wanted to hear more. I learned a lot, not least of all that there is something called substack which I intend to learn more about. So I went over to Mr. Gioia's substack to sign up and see what I might be able to read there. Thank you so much for this video and all of your others I so much enjoy learning from.
Wow, the breadth of scope you are covering surrounding music is brilliant Rick. Thank you for being a leading force of creative thinking for artists and musicians everywhere. Simply incomparable content. Incredibly thought provoking and enjoyable each time you post. Very Grateful! Filling a missing piece of life that remains so strong in music from the 60’s and 70’s and bringing it forward making today whole.
I'm a huge fan as well. I love interviewers who rarely interrupt and know how to steer an interview in such a subtle manner.
I would love only to see more content on new music like for example the top 25 current albums and artists on AlbumOftheYear and Metacritic.
I want Rick to be the CEO of a new big record label that changes everything. We need this. He could even offer to produce some fellow youtube musicians and/or hire other genius people like Adam Neely, once he gets the means to do it.
Ted Gioia is the Neil Degrasse-Tyson of music and I loved every minute of this interview! Thank you Rick for this eye opening conversation.
lol Mr. Degrassi Tyson doesn't really have a good reputation on the internet anymore, but yeah I see what you mean.
TallicaMan1986 is correct. NDT's reputation is quickly turning sour. He's letting his ego control him now. Ted Giolia is much more humble and likeable.
Ted Gioia is actually insightful
This guy has so much insight! People talk about the biggest companies of these times: Apple, Google, etc.. No one ever talks about the giants such as RCA who pioneered as much or more than our current front runners. RCA moved so many different things forward. Not just records and music. The music industry has gotten so bad for the artists and the consumer. Intelligent guys like this need to be utilized to change directions.
Fascinating! What a genius. I learned more about music, business, and culture from this one interview than in four years of college. Thank you Rick and Ted for sharing your knowledge and insights.
Now, THIS, is a Ted talk! Absolutely fantastic conversation. Thank you, Rick!
Rick, I love that somehow you find people that are just as much in love with music as you are. Never change, and keep the wonderful interviews coming!!
I remember back in 1975 a year when there were 35 #1 hits on the billboard hot 100. That was a healthy, diverse year in music.
The 70is is the best decade of the music business. All genres. Funk, Rock, Pop soul, Jazz, jazz Rock.
Twenty years before i was born. And even when you disregard the chart topping hits, the mid to late 70s was an amazing time in music. I'm jealous.
That open - closed system talk about Netflix made me remember the current Avid protools subscription based thing vs a daw like REAPER which I see gaining a steady popularity because of how open it is, contrary to PT.
This is THE best conversation about music and the music "Bizz" I've ever heard. I was laughing out loud at times. Just point after point - golden nugget after golden nugget - what a joy!!!!!! You are both gifts to music.
Also same with books now people prefer to read short books over long books
My favorite song is bohemian rhapsody and it’s 6 minutes long
I’m running to down load that song once I am done with this teaching and interview enjoying every minute of it so far
@wd cousins I know right . Blessed to have found them
By accident
Allan Cross History of New Music Podcast, find the ones about industry and streaming.
one of your best interviews ever, Rick! truly entertaining, informative and inspirational, thank you Rick and Ted!
I BEGGED Rick to do a weekly series where he EXPOSES FAMOUS SCAMS IN MUSIC HISTORY, from hendrix losing his royalties to the doors losing their royalties to govt trying to outlaw THE TWIST, and on and on!
It has already been said, but man, that Ted is so intelligent and interesting to listen to. This interview was the best thing I've heard in a while. Rick, your content is just amazing. Thank you, and thank you, Ted Gioia.
Phenomenal - this is the only place you can find this level of discussion about music that is both intellectual and entertaining. Rick, has a gift for interviewing and choosing topics..
Super Vinyl is basically the CD...💿 The sound is "perfect" (highs and lows beyond human hearing) It was smaller but did come with art, liner notes, and most importantly OWNERSHIP!
I spent the whole super-vinyl portion of the video saying to myself, "isn't that just a CD?"
Maybe they just need to color the CDs black and make them look like they have grooves?? Many listeners will think they have something special, and they'll be convinced they love them due to their expectation biases.
Only thing is vinyl is analogue and cd is digital, there can be quality of sound difference when used with high end sound systems. It would be good to have a cutting end version of physical analogue based audio reproduction. However there is also scope for something physical which would playback in the highest dsd uncompressed digital audio formats as well I think. Both have their merits, shame it will probably not be happening anytime soon! I think they are right when they say the younger generation don't value music as much as in the past, they are happy to pay a tenner a month for a subscription but how many would spend 10 to 20 on a single album on a regular basis on something they are only partially interested in currently? I think some sort of online library where you have purchased your tracks and they are played back in high quality is a more likely new destination, possibly built upon the new interesting audiophile system rune, as this displays you music well in a well presented and browsable collection, provides added liner notes and photos etc to enhance the user experience, the quality is very high, and finally it has a very clever algorithm to recommend you new music based on your own library, very clever. The main barrier so far is just cost and hardware, but these can all be lowered in time and people can sell their music digitally much cheaper than physical costs but still way higher than the fraction of a penny you get through streaming. But the fact that there is no real incentive to purchase your music in it when you can just stream it is another big hurdle to figure out, you need the streaming aspect to discover the new stuff, there just needs to be a better incentive to buying the album digitally for a few bucks direct from the artist... Just my 2 cents anyhow 😂
Vinyl, being ANALOGUE, is pretty amazing stuff. Bandwidth? The old CD4 Quadraphonic disc carried two conventional Left / Right" signals in the groove, but modulated ON TOP of the audible information were the two REAR speaker channels. To recover this extra information, you need, not only a "CD4 capable" pre-amp, but a specially-ground diamond stylus: ( Shibata" or, these days referred to as "Fine-line") A "Fineline" rock has a parabolic form and edges fine enough to read 40KHz plus, without smearing them right off the groove walls. Playing a CD4 disc with a dodgy low compliance conical stylus will wreck the disc's 4-channel ability. Vinyl is an early physical manifestation of "DC to Light" bandwidth, after a fashion.
Why is most Vinyl black? PURE vinyl is WHITE, but the record companies "figured" that he mug punters would not accept a colour change as well ast a speed change, so they included a finely powdered colouring agent (basically carbon), to not offend delicate sensibilities. Every so often some daring company would release something "special" on white virgin" vinyl. The other economy thing associated with "black" vinyl is that it is "recyclable" Punch out and discard the "label" and shred and remelt the remainder.. The problem for the purist was that less than pure vinyl contains "impurities" and these show up as "surface noise" on less than stellar pressings. (This is different from "tape hiss" from a poor master tape or "shot-noise" associated with less than perfect transistor circuits).
TWO big problems with vinyl:
1. The physical medium is prone to "contamination". Hence, pops, clicks, or distortion ,usually caused by Krap playback gear that physically damages the groove walls.).
The big killer is the simple fact that the effective linear speed of the stylus in the groove reduces as the "rock" spirals toward the label.. As this happens, the "grooves" contain less and less "usable" high-frequency information. Cartridges are velocity-sensitive devices.
2. This is exacerbated by the industry-standard RIAA curve, built into the recording; HF is boosted and LF is reduced. .Just for giggles, digital formats do pretty much the sane thing for vaguely related reasons..
In the "CD recording process", the equalization of the "cutting master" is first "tilted" (pre-emphasis),then linearly compressed at a precise ratio, EXACTLY the way the classic dbx noise reduction systems work. Then, it is turned into a stream of 0nes and Zeros.
It is all there in the "Red Book" specification if you want some bed-time reading.
As long as the process is precisely reversed on playback, all is OK.
There is a final twist: The digital data is NOT laid down in a linear stream. it gets chopped and "shuffled" in a precisely regulated sequence..
Some "vintage" CDs even carried a reference to this on the "artwork": CIRC, i.e.; Cross Interleaved Reed-Solomon Code.. The object is that, if there is a bit of "crud" on / damage to the disc and the laser cannot get a valid chunk of code, the "bytes / words" that are in that "damaged" chunk come from different parts of the original linear stream. Thus after the next bit of magic; error correction, the tiny "wonky bits are buried across a field of "good" data and all is well. Pretty 'maxing stuff! Then there is the added fun feature that there is, functionally only ONE stream of data being read and rearranged, for TWO "channels". Huh? simple solution, lay them down alternately in the stream, i.e., multiplexing.. At a sample rate of 44.1K per SECOND, you need seriously golden ears to hear the time split. There are some "exotic" CD players that buffer the output streams and clock them out precisely in parallel. As for reading speed; unlike Vinyl, CD rotational speed changes constantly as the playback proceeds. There is an additional "subcode" built into the way the pits are laid out in the "track". This is a reference frequency that is synchronized to the on-board "clock" in the CD player. a very nifty bit of circuitry, basically a phase-locked loop, constantly adjusts the "spin" motor speed. Also buried in there is a "time-code, for the convenience of the user. Sony and Philips were seriously on the ball when they cooked this up in the late 1970s
Then, referring back to the audio output from the D/A converter, just before that stage is a "buffer" that briefly holds the de-shuffled and corrected digital "chunks before clocking them out at a precise rate. As for frequency response, CD Audio "brick-walls" at MAX 19KHz. Put simply, in digital recording the MAXIMUM frequency recordable, is HALF (ore less) than the sample rate. 44.1Khz divided by two leaves you with 22.05 KHz. To be sure, this was trimmed back to 19Hhz. . The catch is that this, theoretically can block some "pleasing" intermodulation products that may occur if the original 30 IPS, 1/2 inch two track master id played through serious gear to a listener with the proverbial "golden ears"..Standard FM stereo radio "brickwall"s at about 16Khz, because the stereo sub-carrier, 38Khz, AND its harmonic product, 19KHz, have to be filtered out with analogue filter circuits to prevent weird and nasty intermodulation effects. See also "psycho-acoustics".
Vari-speed CD players have LOTS of fun with that feature. there are LOTS of numbers being crunched to output music at an altered tempo but NO pitch change.
That "buffering" was also a key to the "Discman" type personal pocket CD player. They do a "wind-up" before the music comes out, because several seconds of audio was being shoved into a BIG buffer from which it is clocked out and converted to analogue.
. Got all your treasures on a multi-gigabyte SSD? Tough luck when THAT fails to read.
Cheers from an old audio bloke!!
Now, back to J J Cale and Eric Clapton on the Road to Escondido
Problem is perfect doesn't always sound best. I by far prefer the colours and harmonic distortions that a good vinyl and tube amp set up produce. So unbelievably relaxing
Rick is such a music purist even his furniture is made out of speaker cabinets. Gotta love it.
I’m in my 60’s and I agree that kids don’t have enough music to engage with these days. Growing up in the 70’s we had radio stations like WNEW in NYC where they’d often play an entire album side. When the albums came out we’d listen to it start to finish and pour over the liner notes. My daughter, in her 20’s complains that she can’t find new music. I don’t blame her. I listen to a pretty varied mix on Spotify, and each Monday I used to look forward to their ‘Discover Weekly’ which is supposed to be a curated list that hopefully turns you on to new stuff based on your listening habits. It’s always songs I’ve heard dozens of times. Whatever algorithm they’re using sucks. One bright note - I still have a few hundred albums and my kids gifted me a new turntable so lots of times we’ll put on an album over morning coffee. I guess there’s still hope?
One hour ten in and there’s not a single second of this interview that I don’t find fascinating. Thank you Rick. Really. I’m so grateful to you.
Same here. I just ate it up!
Possibly the single most important interview in music for the past 25 years. thank you, Ted Gioia and and thank you, Rick.
I love love love this guy!!! I take absolutely ZERO issue with everything he's saying!!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I'm about to play Chicago's 25 or 6 to 4 for another hour. Sometimes it's the Rolling Stones' Gimme Shelter. Sometimes it's Earth Wind & Fire's Fantasy. Last week it was Seal's Kiss from a Rose. A few weeks back it was Journey's Don't Stop Believing.
Hey Jude was a few months ago. Over and over and over and over. Never once! Never!
It's true about the trance. Music kept me sane throughout a difficult childhood in a dysfunctional family. It was an escape. A refuge. It took me away for just enough time to recover from my mother's unsettling presence and be ready for her return from work.
Ted, you have finally voiced my position on listening to music. I come from an extensive family of rock and blues musicians. Most are gone now but for most of my long life, I have "experienced" music. I know no other way to describe it but my mind becomes one with the music and I experience a high such as my coke-loving friends have been seeking and not found. I have regretted my inability to play music like so many of my friends/relatives could and did at the highest level of professionalism (playing with Eric Clapton, Phil Collins, Stevie Ray Vaugh and others of their set, as well as BB King, Luther Allison and others in the blues world). But I have always described myself as the perfect audience. I "melded" completely with the awesome live music I was lucky to have experienced, and was able to give back such support and heart to my beloved musicians on stage. Thank you for showing me that I was not "crazy" in my experiences and instead was lucky and honored to have lived through those times. Gods bless!!
You are speaking on legendary musicians. Those guys are all legends in the business. And you should feel grateful to have been around in that era.
My generation, the Millennials, could only wish they had half the talent and passion you guys had.
My friends and I did some considerable traveling to see and hear Luther Allison perform!
Thankyou so much Ted and Rick. As a secondary music teacher and musician, I'm banging on about these very issues daily and often feel like I'm on my own or stuck in a negative feed back loop. I'm always telling younger generations about the beauty and depth music can bring to your life. Wonderful interview and great to see others thinking along the same lines.
The problem with NFTs is that you don't sell the content itself, but a token that contains a link to the artwork.
Imagine that, instead of buying a single, you buy access to the single, without the assurance that the single will always be available.
There is a big difference of having access to an NFT and having access to the thing the NFT is linked to.
This is why NFTs will fail.
Yeah NFT's make no sense and will not live on for that long. Most Millennials and gen Z'ers hate NTF's.
not to mention people buying NFTs aren't really music lovers, just speculators hoping the price will go up.
I think of an art gallery with a lot of receipts framed on the wall.
NFT or as I like to say "Not F***ing Tangible"
This was an absolutely beautiful conversation..immense experience and humility.
Great talk! Lot's of truths! One thing I'd like to add, that adds to the dire situation with today's music (IMHO): It's the question about where young and contemporary musicians derive their motivation from to make music? Being a musician myself I can testify that when I started making music back in the days, my main motivation was the music itself, the creation of something new, the ambition to get better at what I was doing, as well as not doing what everybody else does.
I believe this is true for most of us older musicians, and this approach has always been the driving force for musicians to find new ways and thus make music evolve to something new and exciting, or even develop a unique style of playing on their instruments. Nobody sounds like Coltrane, Miles Davis or Wes Montgomery.
Now, we live in times of hyper commercialised music, where the youngsters experience music as a means to make loads of money more than anything else. Their rarely experience music in its truest art form, because the music they consume was already made with the sole intention of making money. Naturally, if that's how you know music, your motivation for picking up music will be to make money, and not to advance in the art form.
So they take up music, and since that's all they know, they start "creating" lots and lots of very similar music with the same chords and beats, because a) that's the entire palette of sounds they know, and b) because it's about the money, so they make use of proven recipes.
It's only getting worse, as we tend to draw inspiration from the music we got socialised with. If all you know is plastic pop, how can you come up with anything else than plastic pop? It's like the circle of colours. If you know all the colours, know how to mix them, your painting will be full of different shades and colours. If on the other hand all you know is one shade of green and yellow, your paintings can only consist of these two colours.
Ted is incredibly knowledgeable...every musician needs to watch this
Zq
It was basically a Ted talk.
The laughs and the joy Rick is expressing here whenever his mind is blown is the cherry on the cake of this incredible UA-cam moment! The gold standard of interviews…
What an absolutely fascinating and liberating conversation. You must've had a blast.
What a brilliant and insightful man whose passion is infectious. I fell in love with music all over again after listening to this. 48 years of playing and writing and wondering if anyone still had what I had as a kid, and in 1 hour and 18 minutes, I gratefully found it still exists.
Thank you, Rick, for blessing the rest of us with all the amazing content you come up with.
I haven’t finished the whole interview yet, and I didn’t know who Ted Gioia is (besides that one article about Spotify shady plays), but it’s already amazing! Thank you, Rick! I hope to see more of these interviews, podcast format suits you really well!
Check out his books on jazz history, they gave me my first big-picture understanding of standards and blues when I was young
Killer podcast right out of the gate, Rick! Fascinating conversation - can't wait to see the next one. Well done!
Stellar interview. “It’s the decision makers who are creating the music culture,” Ted is on point. So many artists and so much great music will never be heard or found.
Been that way for 15 years or so now.
It's disgusting really. The crap they play at the gym is the reason I stopped going. Same thing at stores. I feel like screaming that's how much I hate current what-they-call- "music."
Lars was right
@@Atomic1710 he def was.
@@winniecash1654 put on headphones and get your ass in the gym. Lol.
I LOVE Spotify because I listen to so much old music that's new to me. And Spotify gives us Podcasts that UA-cam wouldn't touch!
As someone working in the music industry, I sincerely thank you for making this pod cast! I’m finding insights from this conversation!
It just came in to my mind when you talked about altered state of mind after 10 minutes of listening to the music. I remembered the success of EDM music. The first thing "musical educated" people always dislike about it is that it is too repetative and always the same but in reality EDM artists are selling 1hour songs/mixes without a problem.
I used to joke with friends that if track is less than 10 minutes long it's not good. Of course that was just a joke, but any track that could go on over 10 minutes was almost always great.
and most of them just use that hour to repeat mindnumbingly simplistic stuff for even longer
You read my mind. The people selling out 3 day festivals EDM
Daft Punk literally came into mind for me after reading this comment & thread, I mean they've probably made a few songs that are a bit longer but they aren't generic tho.
EDM is not always more repetitive than more acoustic music. But then it’s less vocal based a lot of timed that it can seem that way.
Class. Absolute class interview. He succinctly summarises some very relevant issues. One hopes young people listen to this very insightful presentation. Certainly, a copy of this interview needs to be sent to each of the music moguls. Excellent interview, Rick. This could easily serve as a model example of how interviews should be done on UA-cam
As a life long music listener, lover and audiophile, I am here to tell you both. Vinyl is alive and technology supports better turn table transfer to your speakers with clean and beautiful sound at low costs that used to cost thousands of $$. I am playing vinyl that I took care of for 65 years that sounds better today than the day I bought it.
As a singer songwriter I’ve never really pursued a music career ! I have figured out that even if I did get a deal I would be ripped off and controlled to the point you can’t play it own your music !! Great interview and video Rick !! 👍
You two gentlemen should have a weekly or monthly podcast!’
This is awesome Rick. Thank you for all you do!
AGREED!
DEVO was sooooooooo far ahead of their time! The DEeVOlution of mankind, man, I'm tellin YOU. Rick, you're a genius and I LOVE your interviews... you actually let the subjects TALK! Imagine?!?!? THANK YOU SO MUCH!
NO sucker
Back in the 70s, Billy Joel recorded a song called The Entertainer (which he still plays live). A lot of the song is still incredibly relevant, but when you were talking about the song length, it reminded me of Billy's line: "If you're gonna have a hit you gotta make it fit, so they cut it down to 3:05." This is a song from 1974, and we're in 2023, and it's incredible how true the message of it still is.