What is Automated Modeling? | What's New in Fusion 360
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- Опубліковано 15 лип 2022
- In this video we are going to take a look at the new preview feature called Automated Modeling. This new tool allows users to create designs based on forms topology by connecting and avoiding geometry. This geometry can be used and modified for things like Starting Shapes in a Generative Design as well as Simulating the outcomes.
Here is the dataset if anyone wants to play with it.
a360.co/3BrkUBn - Навчання та стиль
I will definitely try out this feature, thanks for the detailed tutorial.
Glad it was helpful! Very Welcome.
I had been working on feedback with this and have found it working well. What I don't have a good grasp is the generative design aspect of transitioning this auto-model into generative design study. THT would be an interesting subject. I have used this to essentially minimize material on an adapter plate and was able to model OVER the generated design to literally cut 33grams of Aluminum out of a 66-gram conventional design. albeit it HAS to be 3D metal printed to even exist it's definitely a useful tool but coupled with generative design studies I think will need more...confidence in structural integrity.
Hi JF, this step isn't required to go into GD but it can be used as a starting shape. The big thing with GD is understanding the loads and constraints your design will see. That is a big topic! One reason I haven't covered GD here is because I have done a bunch of courses on the topic for Autodesk. I will think about covering some GD topics on here. There are 7 day free trials for unlimited simulation solves and GD solves and currently the fluid flow GD is still free/under preview.
With your design do you know the sorts of loads it will see? You can perform some static stress simulation studies on it. Those can be locally solved without the use of any credits.
Pretty awesome video! the new generative design is pretty rad!
Glad you like it!
Superb video! Thanks
Glad you liked it!
Thanks for a great video!
My pleasure!
It's amazing
Nice. I did a video as soon as I discovered it. I love it. This will be great for 3D printing.
Congratulations on this video doing so well. The algorithm seems to like it. Good explanation of Simulation Optimization, Generative and Automate.
-Ken
Thanks Ken! Yeah it's odd how this video has gotten way more views. Not sure I will ever figure it out :) May the algorithm treat you favorably as well! Like your Fusion rendering vid, 100 views in a year, makes no sense at all! If i can help in anyway send some subs or links your way let me know.
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign Thanks. Yeah some vids just don't take off, but interestingly I've had clients look at the Custom Vacuum Work Holding video and that has then affected the scope of a project I'm doing with them. They were initially referred to me by someone I don't know, who saw my UA-cam videos. It only matters if the right ppl see the videos I guess, but big numbers are cool. I have been inconsistent in publishing so that doesn't help.
I've got a few videos I'm working on with 3D printing, AI, CAD.
Keep up the great work here, looks like this video will do best by far.
100% true. I have a client I am working with now that saw a car video and I am working on something totally unrelated for them.
I have subbed to your channel, when i have time I want to check out some of your videos a bit more.
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign cool. The Voxon one is interesting if you didn't know about that tech. I'm interested in Blender but there's other software I need to focus on before I spend time on that.
Email sent.
wait wuuuuuut
Awesome! I wish generative design was this simple to use. Being able to go back and select a different outcome and throw it directly into the model. Then also have the form icon on the timeline you can edit is amazing! With generative design you have to pick one of the multiple preview outcomes and click "design from outcome" to make a form body saved to somewhere as a new file. So then I paste it as a new component back into the original model, which does not have a form icon on the timeline that I can go back and edit. It is kind of complicated and I am probably doing it wrong...I have made multiple "design from outcome" t-spline bodies...but I am not sure where I saved them? They used to be $100 for each one of these exported outcomes, did they change that? I see they changed the "generate" to only $11 instead of $25.
So in the end, I have a file with multiple generative designs for the same bracket I am making, they all look pretty freaking awesome....but I cannot edit their forms. I did edit them a whole bunch when I opened them separately for the first time, smoothed out the wiggles from generative design. But now after I pasted them as a new component into the original model file there is no editing them in "form mode"...and good luck using press pull or any solid body modeling tools on those. Haha! ERROR! I kind of created a mess in the model. Can't wait to start a new project and learn from my mistakes. Should have used the derive function.
I am actually having it HP multijet 3d printed now from Xometry out of nylon 12 for $360. Nylon 12 SLS print was $560 for some reason (usually cheaper). Add another 0 to that for any metal printing 😆
Hey Ben, totally get the frustration with the GD outcome and that is something I have brought up to the team several times before. I will try to hit your comments/questions but let me know if I missed something.
Yes the pricing did change thankfully! Yes it used to be $25 to solve and then 100 to convert each outcome! Now i think its 35 to solve and no cost to turn any outcome to a design. At least last time I did it. I actually have a video going live tomorrow using Automated modeling as a starting shape for GD fluid.
For the new design. yeah so there are a few ways to deal with that. When you have an externally linked design in your browser you can right click on it and select "Edit in place" this will open up the features timeline including the form body feature. BUT you still can't edit it. The trick to getting it to be editable is to right-click and Break Link. This will bring the entire timeline into your assembly. It breaks the link to the external design BUT with GD I don't care about that because it isn't connected to the cloud data anyways. Hopefully that will save you some stress!
Hzllo, très bon travail/ Merci bien
Thanks Laurent!
thanks here we go with organic side of shelves !
Have fun :)
Amazing. Perhaps you could mix this with the intake manifold series you have. That would be exciting!
Considering that the runner and throttle body connections are pretty straightforward.
Interesting Idea Rhein! I think one issue is the volume inside would be too variable, but maybe I can do something with Generative Design Fluid Flow with something along those lines!
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign Right, I didn't even consider that volume is a critical component to consider. Is it possible to set a "minimum" and "maximum" volume similar to the "avoid this path" feature with automated modelling? And yeah, fluid flow sounds sick and would be so appropriate for this series!
Unfortunately there is no volume option in the tool right now. I just did another video doing a 1 into 10 solution you can check out. I focused on how to edit the body over how to create it. There are some issues with GD fluid still(probably why it is in preview) due to the boundary conditions and the number of inlets/outs that will work. Basically if you put several outlets it is just looking for the path of least resistance and you might not get what you are expecting. It works great for a single inlet/outlet situation. I did a 2-1 with it and it wasn't balanced because there is no symmetry yet. When i can I will play with it some more and see if it is worth showing in a video.
I guess the usefulness of this depends on how you plan to manufacture it. Maybe OK for 3d printing but to cast from a milled shape or mill it from solid stock would be much better modelled with conventional geometry.
Yes and this has always been the issue with Generative design. You can mill something like this if you really want. Generative design does take into account milling considerations. It has 2 axis cutting, 2.5x, 3x and multix milling so it can work on the milling orientations and overhangs. Since this is initial shape generation I think we would be hard pressed to see any advanced toolsets arrive.
True but in the next 15-20 years 3D printing and generative design will be next level!
@@JeromeDemers 100% Agree. I would guess in the next 2-3 years we will see Fusion GD output some true ready to manufacture parts. While they are technically ready to manufacture, there is always some clean-up to be done.
Agree. The best solution highly depends on the type of manufacturing intended. I think an additional option in the initial dialog for the user to pick the type of manufacturing and parameters (e.g. tolerances) would have been nice but perhaps that's a different Fusion360 feature.
@@umranium Yeah Umran, that is getting into what Generative Design does and requires a cloud solve. It would be interesting to have a GD solution without loads, but I am not sure how beneficial it would be. The way GD solves is that it starts with a large volume and removes areas of Low Stress and adds to areas of High Stress while taking into account manufacturing.
In the future I will do a video comparing Shape Optimization, Automated Modeling and Generative Design
Cool video :Dd
Thanks!
Great video! Saw this new option in F360 and went straight to youtube to find tips. Isn't this just a smoother workflow for generative design?
Hey Grant, this is like a "pre" Generative design. So for GD you set up materials, loads and constraints, manufacturing requirements and so on. all of those variables are accounted for as the simulation starts to solve for GD. I think what we have here with this is essentially what the GD preview was just showing the build area.
So Shape Optimization simulation study - Looks at load paths through a part and considers areas to keep, but doesn't account for load amount or if part will fail. Output is a mesh body. This requires the use of cloud credits as it is cloud solve only.
Automated Modeling - Looks at connection points/faces and bodies to avoid. This is a line of sight with some iterative solving to smooth things out. This doesn't take into account any materials, mfg, loads/constraints or anything other than "connect these points". Outputs are solid bodies comprised of a form surface, solid bodies and a boundary fill to turn them into a solid. These can be manually modified and you can go back and select a different iterations of the outcome. This solid model can then go to simulation to validate if it can hold up to your design requirements. This is currently free but is preview so who knows if it will cost something at some point.
Generative Design - This looks at multiple loads cases, materials, criteria such as Factor of Safety, Frequency, mass target, manufacturing constrains. It solves for all of these variables to output a design that meets the strength requirements. Output can be a mesh or a solid body made up of a form body, solids and a boundary fill. This can be edited and Simulation setup for static stress automatically comes through with the design. This requires cloud credits(35 i think right now) to solve and then you can output any of the outcomes as solids/mesh bodies from there.
I see this tool being "neat", but in practice it might really be a "starting shape" for a generative design. I haven't simulated any of these to see how they hold up but GD being able to account for multiple loads is a big deal.
Hope that helps!
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign helps a ton =)
may be they can add colors to sketch objects and a way to sellect the bullseye on a blank sketch grid first huh?? Or fix "the hole tool" so it actually can make screw holes the right way around??
Hey Rex, not sure I follow you about selecting a bullseye on a blank sketch grid. I don't use sketch grid snaps if that is what you are talking about.
What is the issue with the hole tool? The holes are always oriented from the selected point/face if you mean being able to flip it on a selected body. It will do left and right hand thread so I can't imagine that is the issue.
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign will email you later. Thanks
How do I "do a bit of work to clean it up"? How do you edit a form to make a concentric hole for example? If the premise of the workflow is to have a "starting shape", why make it a nearly impossible to edit format?
I did a follow up video just talking about the editing of the form body here. ua-cam.com/video/598yPz14uo4/v-deo.html take a look and let me know if this answers it.
would the upper and lower limits of suspension travel be defined like you did for the left and right positions of the tire?
you could but it wouldn't try to build up/down because of the connection points.
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign i was thinking that up/down travel would affect the center clearance. Either way, this is a useful video :D
I agree. I think if the ball joint at the spindle was taller then I would 100% add more obstacles. This tool is really looking at line of sight, so if the areas to keep are the same height then likely you won't see any vertical building. Not true with Generative design though so if that was used then certainly build out everything to constrain the build area!!!
When the shapes are being generated what kind of optimization is it doing? just trying to find the shortest path? Also is there any way to change the thickness of the shape thats being generated over the connected faces?
I am not 100% certain but the way Generative Design works it first looks for line of site/shortest path and refines from there. So my guess is that it looks for shortest path and then refines the shape to smooth it out. I don't think there are any options during the setup that I have seen to adjust that thickness, but it is a form so you can scale them up/down.
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign Thanks for the reply! Its a fun tool, hopefully ill find some uses for it
Is automated modeling available on the hobby liscence of Fusion 360
Unfortunately I believe it is only on Commercial or EDU license types as a preview feature...
If this model is the result of smart calculations, then why does the program generate bulges in the middle of the connecting elements (where there is less stress)?
This form of modeling doesn't take into account any stress. That is what Generative Design does. This is really a shape exploration tool designed to get a starting shape quickly without looking at loads, constraints, materials etc.
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign OK, thanks for the answer. That's a starting shape, I got it.
@@o.k.2968 Also note if you are on the Fusion forum, this is in Preview so any feedback about how it works, what you would like to see etc, that is a great place for it!
Once I come up with another example of maybe a good use of the tool I will update the topic. Thanks for watching!
1:12 I was wondering why there were all red jajajaja
:)
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign great and concise video btw!
Do we have something like this for solidworks?
Sadly no. there is something called a Design Study. this basically lets you define variables that the study can change and it will run through several iterations of it. For example if you are trying to make a mounting plate/bracket with a specific volume you could use design study and lock down the hole locations but explore changes in other geometry.
The downside to this, like many things with solidworks, is that some functionality is available for some license types, but not all. For example if you want to use sensors that track volume and you want to use that in a design study you need to have a premium license. won't work on standard or pro. and you also need to have simulation and have a study run before the design study...
Automated modeling in Fusion is only possible because of the Tspline freeform bodies. Solidworks doesn't have that (really) built in. The desktop application has a tool called freeform that lets you do a bit of this to a single face, but you need an add in called Power Surfacing or to use their cloud 3d experience to get subD tools
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign Thanks for clearing my mind . ill keep with f360 for the moment (basic stuff)
I can't find the automate modeling tab. My program is up to date, but this tab does not exist. I wonder if I'm doing something wrong.
It does not come up in the hobbyist license.
Yeah I did some searching around and Rob is correct. Preview features aren't available on the hobby license sadly.
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign No I have pro license. I using for business. For examp. I have plastic design tab (boss, snap fit, rest..) I see all of these but I can't see only automate tab. v2.0.13615 Active Plan: Fusion 360, Subscription
@@kkeskinn Kemal, if you go to your user preferences in the upper right corner, and navigate to "Preview Features" it should be the first one in the Design section. Do you see it there? It showed up for me automatically but you are able to hide it from the Solid Toolbar so maybe yours is hidden....
I dont see me using this anytime soon. Probably quicker to get a good result by designing it from scratch. I just fear all this fancy stuff slows the designtool down..?
This won't slow down the design tool at all. It is the same as if you created a form body in the timeline or had a generative outcome converted to a design. I agree that its usefulness at the moment is pretty Novel, but I think it will become useful in the future. Now you could get really created and turn the outcome to a mesh and apply a volumetric lattice :)
im running the most recent version of fusion but i dont see this feature?
i dont see it under preferences > preview features
are you running a hobby license? It is possible that it is only in the commercial or student versions.
Buenas noches soy de Argentina y me interesaría saber si esa herramienta de modelado automático está disponible en una licencia de uso personal gratuita
Desde ya muchas gracias
Hola José, no, no creo que la licencia de hobby tenga acceso a funciones de vista previa. Lo siento!
Where is the link to download?
Hi Reeperru, since I didn't walk through a step by step i must not have included it. ill add it now and here is a link. a360.co/3BrkUBn
Will work on free version or hobbiest account??
I believe so. It used to be a preview but I do believe with the update this month that it should be there in the software.
Anyone have any sweet design ideas? Preferably noncar-related?
Since it doesn't look at loads you would have to create some well planned obstacles, but might be cool to try and build some lamps or light fixtures. Connect a few light bulb sockets to a mounting plate. Or possibly try a chair :)
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign Fantastic suggestions, that's the issue, in most instances where it would look the coolest you would have to add some made-up obstacles. I would love to do a design like this chair ( ua-cam.com/video/zF87_Hu9120/v-deo.html ) with automated modeling. Not quite sure how to make the obsitcals be optimal for the coolest looking design. Great Video!
Autodesk pricing is strange, why would someone fork over 1600 a year for this instead of ditching Fusion entirely and going to a more 'professional' CAD/CAM program that has stuff like this?
Hi Johnny, where is the $1600/year coming from? Currently Fusion is $396/year or $1,128/3years in the US as listed on their site. There was a product design collection around that price that included Inventor, 3d studio, HSM works and a few other tools. The CAM tools in Fusion are excellent as are the CAE tools. I don't know of any other program in the same ballpark price that offers Automated modeling(which is a new preview feature) or generative design tools. I have used and supported a lot of CAD/CAM/CAE tools over the years and there is no comparison on price for functionality.
I would like to know what CAD/CAM program you know of that offers Generative/Automated Modeling tools that is under $8000. I will happily check them out :)
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign Cost of the generative design app in Fusion is $1,600 a year...it just seems a bit odd since at 500+1600 you are entering into the realm of stuff like Solidworks and exiting what demographic Fusion seems to be targeted towards.
Well this automated modeling tool is free, no cost associated with the solve. It solves locally and is just a shape generator. It isn't quite Gen Design because there are no loads/constraints, no materials, no mfg methods etc. The $1600/year is for unlimited solves, which you can pay per solve if you wish. It is currently $1100/year or $200/mo for unlimited GD solves or I believe $35/solve which can include multiple studies/mfg methods etc. If you look at other GD solutions on the market they are much more expensive at the start than Fusion. There are 3 or 4 big players in this space and Solidworks isn't one of them(although Catia is). You have nTopology, Creo Gen Design and Siemens. I don't have current cost on those but last I checked nTop was $7500/year and is not a CAD/CAM package in the same sense. Creo starts at around $3000 for their essentials (which doesn't have GD) and their Premium is $16000, The cost of GD in Fusion is rolled into the commercial license and you pay per solve, which is great for those that only want to try it now and then or learn how to use it. There is also a 7 day trial with unlimited solves.
I supported SW for many years and even worked at and with VARs for some time. I am a CSWE and have been since 2009. SWx current sub model is $4000 for their 3d experience platform per year. Their standard seats range from $4000-$8000 without simulation, CAM, and a whole host of other add-ons. You could easily get to $12k or more for SWx plus the yearly cost. If you have premium with Visualize you are looking around $2000/year for maint. cost last I checked.
While I get what you are saying, I don't believe the $1600/year for unlimited solves, which is optional, is out of the ballpark for that tech considering what other generative design companies are charging. And even if you pay for Fusion for a year, and unlimited GD solves currently at $1100 and unlimited 4 and 5x machining, you are still not even close to buying something like nTopology(which is very powerful) which really still requires you to have a CAD package as it is mainly for topology optimization and direct modeling.
The current model Fusion has adopted helps keep the cost low for 95% of the users and offloads the cost of the higher development stuff like Generative design, Simulations and higher end manufacturing toolpaths. One of the reasons I enjoy supporting it is around its cost for functionality. Is it perfect? no, but I had my problems with all CAD software i have used :)
@@johnnycab8986 There is no generative design in DinosaurWorks. Topology study isn't GD, it's just topology optimisation.
These generated shapes look wobbly and not clean. Why is that?
Because they are built off of mesh bodies. It is similar to generative design but it isn't looking at forces or materials on the models only how to best connect them. The result is an "organic" freeform model.
For anyone else who is red green color blind watching this I feel your pain.
Yeah its a thing, sorry! So with Simulations, Generative design etc the default colors(and can't be changed) are red and green for obstacles and preserve geometry. It is a big problem when I help develop exams that are ADA compliant. With simulations you can flip flop the high/low colors but they are still red/green so really no help for anyone red/green colorblind.
ok but... why?
Excellent question :) Sometimes technology is created before we have a use for it. Generative Design or AI design is still very much there. I see this as a quick way to make organic shaped designs with a form body without having to actually make the form body. Then you can simply work on editing it. But in the end the fabrication really will be the driver. If you are casting something or 3d printing, sure.
With the tool being free, at least for now, it is worth playing with if you have access.
I cant believe it you upload video 360P? witch century you live?
it was uploaded 30 min ago, It takes a while for youtube to process higher definitions, but the low res ones can be processed quick and are available first. 1080p is available for me now.
Thanks Vinny :) Yeah with longer videos I usually delay the upload but these short ones it usually gets the 1080 version in 5-10min so I roll the dice :)
Welcome to UA-cam! And welcome to 2022! And welcome to English!
just be patient lol
So what if it was 360p? get over it, hardly IMax is it? its a quick UA-cam tutorial. FOR FREE!