I just got a mill and need to know how to use it. I ordered a toeboard not knowing why I needed one. I've done a few test cuts, familiarized myself with my new mill, ironed out all the bugs and made a few errors (fed too fast with too much water - the mill could handle it but couldn't discharge the sawdust properly). Luckily it was only on short lengths so no harm done. About to saw up a 5100mm log that's about 15" diameter so I thought I better look up the purpose of my toeboard in case I might waste my log. There is nothing more annoying than practicing the wrong way I find LOL. I have to say I am very glad I found you. I'm glad the sawmill company talked me into getting a toeboard now as I thought they were selling me stuff I'd never use. Before this vid I had absolutely NO idea. You've given a very good basic understanding of why you must have one if you saw tapered logs and the most important part how to use it with theory and demonstration. This is everything one might want from a UA-cam vid. The least I can do is the Like/Subscribe/All thing. Cheers for that!
Excellent job centering the pith on both sides. That was a pretty yellow pine. Looks like you are having a good time. The sawmill shed is amazing. I'm still milling out in the open and covering the mill in bad weather. I have all hardwood here in northwest Arkansas so I don't get to cut construction-type wood. You may want to hang a bucket on the sawdust shoot so you can put it in a pile somewhere where you can make compost. I just mix grass clippings with mine to make good compost.
I like setting the saw blade at the far end center height so I can use it as a ruler for setting the toe board height quickly. Bring the saw close to the narrow end and run up the toe board so the center of the log is even with the saw blade. I also usually eyeball the size of the log and set the height of the saw to my guess. Bring the saw to the log to check in guess. This quickly trains the eye to read sizes remarkably well. I always use the tape measure as well because that tool is always right, rather than the eye being usually close.
I really like your idea of getting the pith measurement on the large end and carrying It to the other end. Use the scale ruler to get an accurate measure. Great!
Thanks Jack for demonstrating an excellent and inexpensive mill upgrade idea. I had a couple of cheapo scissor jacks lying around my shop so I welded them onto some cross members which bolt right existing unused holes in my HM126 track. Given my setup is cramped under a drive shed roof, I also installed 16" rollers on top of the lifts. Now I cab load any logs at the far end of my 22 foot track, raise the rollers slightly and effortlessly roll even large logs into position for milling. Should have thought to do that years ago.
Remarkable! I learned something new and interesting. Seeing such large logs being processed is incredible. The clarity and detail in this video are amazing. I'm eagerly anticipating more content from you. Keep up the exceptional work!
Great explanation! Thankyou That’s one thing that is a must for me when it comes to sawmilling, is toe boards. I also like to start cut at the small end of the log, this gives you the best point of view so you can see the least amount of useable wood you’ll get. And you don’t have to guess where to cut.
At first I thought this might be boring. I already had the concept. But.., I continued to watch because I find the details are important. I believe Mr. Honda said ‘God is in the details’. I now have more than a concept in mind. Well done sir!
Thank you so much Jack for sharing your kowledge and experience in such a clear and understandable way. I am watching the sawmill playlist in sequence and I am just amazed at the amount of practical, pertinent information I am getting from every one of your videos and responding to questions. I particularly appreciate that the information you provide is based on demonstrable hard facts and science, and not on tradition or local usage, thus starting my sawing skill building as a newbie on solid grounds. And I haven't even started the logging playlist yet!! :)
Brilliant video great set up you have ,qualitytable for your mill and like your sawmill shed .Got a Norwood but not set up to use it yet .Keep up the good work and best regards all the way from a cold Aberdeen Scotland .
I think this why a lot of people say the tapered end should face the saw. You can adjust to get the maximum usage while keeping the can’t centered to get the best grain. You did give a good tutorial on this.
Ah ha now I see what you are saying. Because all four sides are tapered. I am just old and slow but I can see that this is a good idea especially if it is lumber that is in a structural position.
Excellent demonstration. I have thought about this quite a bit, but didn't really grasp the concept until I saw your drawings. Amazing how you can get so much more lumber out of the exact same log if you cut it correctly, and you get better quality boards. Thanks again.
I did not check all comments but, I'm thinking that if you use a straight board across the rails at the end of the log as your "bench mark", you can adjust the height of the small end by holding the tape to the board and against the end of the log while raising it and watch for when the pith is at the desired height. This would give you a precise measuring point without trying to find the proper place to measure from and repeatedly setting the drill down to measure. Your diagrams were perfect!
Great video. I used an RV scissor jack for mine but I really like the large flat surface of that jack. I found it helpful to cut 2 boards the width of the bunks that can sit on the angles of the saw rails. I can put them at the ends of the logs to measure up for the pith on each end. makes measurements quick and easy no matter where the ends are on the saw bed.
I as well purchased the woodlands toe board as i see others in the comments. Great demonstration sir. What i really like in this video is your raised bed for the mill. Looks very sturdy and well designed. Kudos
As others have commented, a very clear and concise case made for using a toe board. I have a mill on order that is still a couple of months away and so, am watching and reading all sorts of stuff to build my knowledge base. For the first time I'm seeing the importance of thinking about and planning for the the heartwood to be as close to the centre of the cant as possible. A lesson I'm sure will follow me throughout my sawing. Thanks again for taking the time to put this together.
I like to measure the large end at the last cross bunk, and split that measurement to get my halfway point. And then raise the center of the small end to the half point measurement of the large end. because if I raise the small end it will kinda pivot on that cross far cross bunk and slightly change the large ends position. And if the log has a lot of taper it will actually hang down lower than the cross bunk, therefore if you’d measure at the butt of the log it would give you an in-accurate measurement. I hope this makes sense. And it’s not the only way. Just how I used to do it on my Norwood mill. Which had some hydraulics, so I could set my blade at whatever height the small end needed to be. And just raise log till the center was at the blade.
Very interesting Technik you have there. I like your building set up. Thanks for sharing. Iowa was watching. I just ordered the HM 126 a wk ago. Said it would be the end of September before it shipped.
Saw a laser on another sawing channel, very slick. Also, a set of measuring cross pieces that can slide on the rails with a nail or tack in the center ring of the wood. A cross member to catch law dogs so they do not swing down so far. You have a beautiful set up, very neat and clean. You can really see how swing blade saw saves time and allows for quarter sawing. Thanks. Bob in Nevada
when you bring your tractor in and set your forks down right at the edge of your mill, chock your front tires with a 4x6x8 ft. it will take off time and put you right where you need to be every time for unloading your logs onto your deck. Like your construction on your deck.
Great, informative video. The biggest drawback to toe boards is when you forget to lower the log after the opening cuts are made. Kind of like forgetting to lower the stops and cutting into them. 😉 My only critique with what I saw in the video was the opening cuts you made. I wasn't standing there to see the log, but it seemed to me you could have gotten a couple of at least 8' 1x6s, possibly 2x4s out of those first cuts. It is a common practice I see in a lot of this type of videos, so I'm not picking on you specifically. But especially on logs longer than 10', there is a lot of usable side lumber thrown in the scrap pile because the sawyer opens the log to square cant size. I most often attribute it to operator inexperience. Looks like you've got yourself set up well there. Keep on working and let experience be your teacher.
Added note, most auto wrecking yards have a multitude of perfectly good scissor jacks available cheap. Some are designed for a goofy handle to operate them, but some have a hex on them for use with the lug wrench so a cordless driver will adapt nicely. Hydraulic Jack scan can be mounted under the bunks fairly easily also.
very much agree about the opening cuts, that thick slab would have yielded a couple boards, same for the bottom and sides, then cut to the cant size, it may seem like a wasted cut cause some times that will be a mere 1/4 inch or less, but it squares it to cant size .
Very good explanation of the importance of taking log taper into consideration. A simpler method for adjusting log height is to use a tapered wedge (mine is a piece of 2x4 that is 14 inches long and tapers from 2 3/4 inches to 0) and peavey to raise the small end of the log. By positioning the peavey under the log and onto the far bed rail to lever the log up, the wedge can be slid between the log bed and log. Very easy to quickly adjust the the log height and no extra tools are required. Simple is good! And the wedge helps keep the log against the log stop.
I like your idea of simplifying the process. I notice some sawyers avoid setting log stops until the weight comes down as they saw. Using a tapered block could make it possible to further simplify the process by avoiding having to turn the log over to cut the other side. You could lower the mill the desired cant size and cut through the bottom half. This could cut out the step of turning the log over & removing the toe board in some cases. Rotate the log 90 degrees and repeat the process setting the toe board again. Two less turns and less measuring would take less time and effort. I haven’t put my mill together yet but I will try your idea.
Nice video, and a really beatiful set up you got there. I'm a relatively fresh sawyer, but I have never yet sawed a log witout using the toe board. The original one from WM works great and is very flexible to move around. Another way that I use the toe board is is to level the top edge for making traditional boards. Gets another 20% out of the log. Btw, amazingly fast growing pine you got. Here in Norway that would probably take about 100-200 years for that size. Also smart using the drill, it's a lot faster. I will start doing that too. Thanks.
These Loblolly yellow pine get to about 16-18" diameter at the base after 30 years, and that is with them spaced tight together (they were planted for pulp wood production and meant to be harvested at about 15-20 years, which did not happen). The ones that are on the edge of the forest have more room to grow and reach 20-24" in the same time. Someone told me this particular species of Loblolly was genetically engineered for fast growth and harder wood but I don't know the details. They were planted about 1992-1993 from what I gather from satellite photos.
I watched to find out what a toe board is, and why it"s so called. Yes , the value of one is obvious, but Toe Board?? I might have called it a Little End Support, or a Centreline Leveller, or Cant Maximiser! I guess the origin of some ancient terms can be a bit of a mystery! Great work, Jack!
I like the result, as second growth and quick growing lends itself to timber bind or warping. Every cut you save is a time and money saver, and quality is far superior to box store (even green in my world). Thank you.
Amazing demonstration! Thank you so much for taking the extra time which was a blessing for me as I am a visual learner. I purchased the toe board accessory with my new Woodland Mills sawmill (not yet assembled) and now I better understand the value of it!
Thank you for this video. I got an LT40 (fully hydraulic) and got messed up using the toe board and ended up with crooked lumber, stopped using them and got twisted boards and lots of waste. Needed to see the graphic and when to raise and lower the toe board. Will implement immediately. Other issue are wavy cuts. Cutting Tamarack. Only have the mill for a few months…lots to learn.
That is a real nice mill. Wavy cut is usually easy to solve. Assuming it's a sharp blade and you are not going too fast, it will probably be related to the guides or the tension. Waves around knots can happen even with a proper setup. A good way to see/understand that effect is to put on a new sharp blade and try shaving veneer cuts off of a knotty cant (by cutting veneers you can see the knots and watch what happens). I can cut uniform 1/16-1/8" veneers with my mill but hit a good knot and there will be a wave unless I slow way down. This is good to learn about with veneers when you can see knots, because when sawing thick lumber you won't see all the knots inside the cant and may not know how to interpret waves until it's too late. Tamarack should be pretty easy to cut if the mill is dialed in. We had a few of those trees in New England where I grew up. Definitely a knotty tree!
Your diagram really made this clear. Watching you follow that procedure to actually cut the log was icing on the cake :) How would you proceed to make 2x lumber from this cant? Define "quality" lumber please.
Excellent. TY. I've been winging it👍😅👌 BTW the old scissor jacks I've been hoarding come in very handy around the homestead and one is perfect for this. I too use my drill or impact to run it up and down. Our logs here are so huge, about a ton, that hand shimming wasn't an option lol.
Finally a youtube video that I have tried to explain why this is the right way to do things. I try also to feed the small end first as its much easier to determine where the blade meets the log. There are lasers that are magnetic mount that you can mount on the outside edge and it shows exactly where the saw blade is going to hit and makes it much faster as the eye sometimes is a fibber. As a person becomes more familiar with how logs behave on the mill deck, you will also find your job easier. I have ran mills for a good fifty plus years... Yeah, I am just a punk kid at seventy an no ones business the rest of that number/lol ... I almost was old enough to vote for Jack Kennedy
Best explanation and demonstration of this I've seen so far. It looks like your eyeballing where to start the cut once you have the log leveled. Would love to hear your comments on this. I've been taking the diameter of the smaller end and multiplying by .7. Say it's 10" on the smaller end. That gives you an expected 7" sq cant. I deduct 7 from 10, leaves three. So on my first cut, I set the blade height at 8.5. flip 180, set second cut at 7 and do similar on cuts 3 and 4. Comments? Ideas? Thanks
That is a good rule of thumb to use. The 0.707 (aka, sqrt[2] over 2) comes from the cosine (or sine) of 45 degrees and tells you what size square will fit in a circle. Sometimes I will cheat a little and go higher than 0.7 if I think the cutoffs can yield extra pieces of lumber as a bonus, or if I can tolerate some bark or rounded points on the corners of the cant (usually fine for posts). Some people will actually draw the square on the end of the log with a pencil or sharpie to visualize what they are cutting and how to get some extra boards out of the cutoffs. I've never gotten that detailed, usually just eyeball it.
I keep 1/2" stickers around that I use to stack boards to dry. If the log needs to go up on one end 1 1/2" I use a bottle Jack to lift it and put 3 stickers under the log at the bunk. Works fine. I do like the motorcycle lift though. Have one for my dirt bike. I use felling wedges on the other bunks to fill the gap and tighten the log so it doesn't bow or move too.
I know a guy that fairly recently started sawmilling and i can't get him to understand this at all. I hate that he wastes so much wood, but ultimately that's his time and money so i can't keep arguing with him about it. I was hoping on the graphics portion that you had a line showing the position of the pith running through the log. Since you want to try to center the pith and keep the entire length of it inside of one board, it's important for some people to see how properly using the toe board like you do keeps the pith centered as opposed to your first diagram where it would be running diagonally through the cant.
I would put a mirror on the other side of that log is that log up on the center post or maybe one on the end of the building so I could see the other side of the log from the tractor seat. Another option would be a simple closed circuit camera and monitor
Excellent video now I realise why it is so importend to use a toe board. I like the height of your timber frame where the track is bolted on to. How high is that ? what blades are you using
Base is 22” high putting the bunks at 29” high. Similar to a trailer mounted sawmill. I have been using Woodland Mils Blades and Ripper 37 blades. Both have been good.
Something that should be mentioned when you have the log overhang the end support bunk when you lift your toe board the opposite end with the over hang could possibly change So in essence you should bring up your toe board a little less to make a more accurate cut down the log! With the amount of over hang on this log your featuring here! your probably looking at a 1/8 difference but with more over hang like a couple feet or more would increase that amount being off!
Good for alot of taper in the log. Mine are pretty much uniform. I dont put big logs thru the mill. I hold to 12 feet long or so. I mostly do beams. My first cut is to skim a flat. I then drop to get something usable 1.5 inch.. Like for purlins on meatal buildings.
I've been watching sawmill videos for a year now and this is the most informative and logical video I've seen. I'm trying to set up an older Hudson mill and need to build the bed. Are your posts cemented in or are they free floating? Thank you for the reply. Very professional video, very nice!!!
The posts were put in with concrete around and below the posts to act as a footing. If doing this, be sure to go below the frostline if relevant in your location. I did another video on the sawmill base that shows some of the details.
Thanks for showing how to get it centered. I believe that the major impact is on quality of the final product because of warping, bending, splitting, stability etc... that i would think. Why is it effecting the yield of a log? - i don't get it because the final dimensions are determined in both cases by the diameter of the smaller end - the big difference is the orientation of the grain -> which reflects in the quality only - isn't it so? please advice, thanks.
I wonder if it would be simpler to measure the far end then set your saw blade to that height off the bunk so you have a visual to aim for while adjusting the toe
I have to disagree with you. I used bottle jacks and a floor jack for years on my mill. They were TERRIBLE. The logs had a tendency to roll off. Your flat motorcycle jack idea is a GREAT idea. It's the only way to go. Good job!
Thank you for putting this video together. I'm ordering the scissor jack for my new 130 now? What kind of log clamps are you using? I like the way they work.
Never did make plans, just winged it. If you have a Woodland Mills unit, the have dimensioned drawings of their mills and tracks on the website that make it easy to size up a base.
Hello, I just wanted to thank you for your quality information that you have put out for milling and other things. I was wondering if you could tell me which set of clamp on pallet forks do you have?
Perhaps if you took a piece of material that long enough to span the rails with about 6 inches either side. Run a piece dowel up through that material. Make a set screw in material piece so the dowel tip can be adjusted to center of log and locked down. You then can take the material piece to the small end of the log and then adjust the log height with tip of dowel height. Center to center Would be pretty much dead on with out having to use a tape every time.
Is it necessary to roll the log 180 after your first cut? Could you not roll it 90 and leave toeboard up for your second cut then be done with the toe board?
Hi great video personnaly i use different piece of wood of diiferent height to level the tiny part of the lumber and after my first cut i only rotate 90 degrees for the next cut and after that i remove my piece of wood.Any particular reason why you rotate 180 degrees thanks.
Rotating 180 creates maximum stability on the bed, with the aim of producing a squarer cant and cleaner cuts. You're immediately flipping the log down onto the reference you created, with gravity working in your favor. Depending on the type of lumber being sawn, the first two parallel cuts establish the most accurate reference surfaces and will be important later. For other stuff (ie, posts) it does not matter so much how you do it.
I appreciate the computer diagram showing using a toe board vs not using a toe board. It just goes to show that a little pre planning, (weather making a jig, drawing your cuts on the log, or using an autocad program) can greatly reduce waste. Do you always position the log the way you did in this video (smaller diameter where you start the cut) or does it depend on how you deliver the log to the mill? Does the toe board seem to work better at beginning or end of your cant? Thanks!
I usually end up with the small end of the log on the starting end of the cut just out of habit, but the toe board setup I have could be moved to either end of the mill. Won't matter where it goes as long as the log gets leveled properly. I just used it yesterday on a log with 3" flare from one end to the other and it really helped.
Depends on what you plan to do. For outdoor structures I frame with green lumber (I have videos about this) and as long as you plan accordingly it works great. For indoor trim or fine furniture it needs to dry for a couple years before it's stable enough. In between those two extremes are many other scenarios.
@@logan979 Framing green would be fine, just be sure to constrain the studs with girts or siding to keep the wood straight while it dries, and of course don't put up vapor barrier or insulation until the structure dries out a fair amount (few months depending on climate).
Excellent use of graphics to demonstrate the benefits of a toe board. You are a good teacher. Thanks!
🤠🥳👍. Great clear concise and perfect diagrams.
I just got a mill and need to know how to use it. I ordered a toeboard not knowing why I needed one. I've done a few test cuts, familiarized myself with my new mill, ironed out all the bugs and made a few errors (fed too fast with too much water - the mill could handle it but couldn't discharge the sawdust properly). Luckily it was only on short lengths so no harm done.
About to saw up a 5100mm log that's about 15" diameter so I thought I better look up the purpose of my toeboard in case I might waste my log. There is nothing more annoying than practicing the wrong way I find LOL.
I have to say I am very glad I found you. I'm glad the sawmill company talked me into getting a toeboard now as I thought they were selling me stuff I'd never use. Before this vid I had absolutely NO idea. You've given a very good basic understanding of why you must have one if you saw tapered logs and the most important part how to use it with theory and demonstration.
This is everything one might want from a UA-cam vid.
The least I can do is the Like/Subscribe/All thing.
Cheers for that!
Excellent job centering the pith on both sides. That was a pretty yellow pine. Looks like you are having a good time. The sawmill shed is amazing. I'm still milling out in the open and covering the mill in bad weather. I have all hardwood here in northwest Arkansas so I don't get to cut construction-type wood. You may want to hang a bucket on the sawdust shoot so you can put it in a pile somewhere where you can make compost. I just mix grass clippings with mine to make good compost.
I actually liked the computer graphics. This helped me much more than I thought they would’ve.
Clear, concise, and then very well demonstrated. Thank you.
I like setting the saw blade at the far end center height so I can use it as a ruler for setting the toe board height quickly. Bring the saw close to the narrow end and run up the toe board so the center of the log is even with the saw blade.
I also usually eyeball the size of the log and set the height of the saw to my guess. Bring the saw to the log to check in guess. This quickly trains the eye to read sizes remarkably well. I always use the tape measure as well because that tool is always right, rather than the eye being usually close.
Great ideas, thanks!
I really like your idea of getting the pith measurement on the large end and carrying
It to the other end. Use the scale ruler to get an accurate measure. Great!
Great and helpful video. Thanks for the links to the scissor lifts as well.
I used laser level to eyeball the cut before I found an accordion jack.Great video, thanks for taking the time.
That was one excellent explanation of what a toe-boards job is. Great video on it and you have a very nice setup.
What a great explanation for using a toe board, outstanding.
Among the highest value presentations to be had. Thank you!
Good video and best illustration of toe board efficacy I’ve seen.
I truly appreciate your videos. Good information presented clearly with real-world demos. Thanks for all the effort and please keep them coming.
Thanks Jack for demonstrating an excellent and inexpensive mill upgrade idea. I had a couple of cheapo scissor jacks lying around my shop so I welded them onto some cross members which bolt right existing unused holes in my HM126 track. Given my setup is cramped under a drive shed roof, I also installed 16" rollers on top of the lifts. Now I cab load any logs at the far end of my 22 foot track, raise the rollers slightly and effortlessly roll even large logs into position for milling. Should have thought to do that years ago.
Remarkable! I learned something new and interesting. Seeing such large logs being processed is incredible. The clarity and detail in this video are amazing. I'm eagerly anticipating more content from you. Keep up the exceptional work!
Thank you very much for the visual explanation. Appreciate it
Great explanation! Thankyou That’s one thing that is a must for me when it comes to sawmilling, is toe boards.
I also like to start cut at the small end of the log, this gives you the best point of view so you can see the least amount of useable wood you’ll get. And you don’t have to guess where to cut.
Well done Sir! Great idea with the jack. I will be getting one. Best video on tapered log cutting I have seen to date. Thank you.
Thanks for a very concise video. Great idea using the bike lift. Much obliged. I have my mill now waiting for the snow to melt!
Very good illustration. You explained it so well that a kid could understand it. I glad you did. I was wondering how that works. Thanks Tim.
great video, easy to understand, great set up!
At first I thought this might be boring. I already had the concept. But.., I continued to watch because I find the details are important. I believe Mr. Honda said ‘God is in the details’. I now have more than a concept in mind. Well done sir!
Thank you and extremely well explained and shown
Wow nice saw mill lay out.👌
Wow, Super video and well explained. First video I have seen that explained when to use the toe board on 1st and 3rd cuts. thanks
Thank you so much Jack for sharing your kowledge and experience in such a clear and understandable way. I am watching the sawmill playlist in sequence and I am just amazed at the amount of practical, pertinent information I am getting from every one of your videos and responding to questions. I particularly appreciate that the information you provide is based on demonstrable hard facts and science, and not on tradition or local usage, thus starting my sawing skill building as a newbie on solid grounds. And I haven't even started the logging playlist yet!! :)
Brilliant video great set up you have ,qualitytable for your mill and like your sawmill shed .Got a Norwood but not set up to use it yet .Keep up the good work and best regards all the way from a cold Aberdeen Scotland .
Great tutorial. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
I think this why a lot of people say the tapered end should face the saw. You can adjust to get the maximum usage while keeping the can’t centered to get the best grain. You did give a good tutorial on this.
Ah ha now I see what you are saying. Because all four sides are tapered. I am just old and slow but I can see that this is a good idea especially if it is lumber that is in a structural position.
Best explanation 👌! My mill sat on concrete slab so I just used an automotive floor jack.
Excellent demonstration. I have thought about this quite a bit, but didn't really grasp the concept until I saw your drawings. Amazing how you can get so much more lumber out of the exact same log if you cut it correctly, and you get better quality boards. Thanks again.
I did not check all comments but, I'm thinking that if you use a straight board across the rails at the end of the log as your "bench mark", you can adjust the height of the small end by holding the tape to the board and against the end of the log while raising it and watch for when the pith is at the desired height. This would give you a precise measuring point without trying to find the proper place to measure from and repeatedly setting the drill down to measure. Your diagrams were perfect!
That's what I do too. It may not look like much but if you raise the small end 1 1/2" the large end center is coming down.
Wonderful information. Thank you.
Great video. I used an RV scissor jack for mine but I really like the large flat surface of that jack. I found it helpful to cut 2 boards the width of the bunks that can sit on the angles of the saw rails. I can put them at the ends of the logs to measure up for the pith on each end. makes measurements quick and easy no matter where the ends are on the saw bed.
Excellent idea. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
good tip, thanks I'll use it
I as well purchased the woodlands toe board as i see others in the comments. Great demonstration sir. What i really like in this video is your raised bed for the mill. Looks very sturdy and well designed. Kudos
Excellent tips 👍
Great explanation. Thank you
As others have commented, a very clear and concise case made for using a toe board. I have a mill on order that is still a couple of months away and so, am watching and reading all sorts of stuff to build my knowledge base. For the first time I'm seeing the importance of thinking about and planning for the the heartwood to be as close to the centre of the cant as possible. A lesson I'm sure will follow me throughout my sawing. Thanks again for taking the time to put this together.
Brilliantly explained. Thank you.
Thank you for this demonstration. This is a big help to a newbie bandsaw miller
Your affinity presentation was very good! On a circle mill, we move out towards the vertical blade from the knees. Thanks for the video!
I like to measure the large end at the last cross bunk, and split that measurement to get my halfway point. And then raise the center of the small end to the half point measurement of the large end. because if I raise the small end it will kinda pivot on that cross far cross bunk and slightly change the large ends position. And if the log has a lot of taper it will actually hang down lower than the cross bunk, therefore if you’d measure at the butt of the log it would give you an in-accurate measurement. I hope this makes sense. And it’s not the only way. Just how I used to do it on my Norwood mill.
Which had some hydraulics, so I could set my blade at whatever height the small end needed to be. And just raise log till the center was at the blade.
Nice video 👍 From Cadillac Michigan
Very nice explanation
Very interesting Technik you have there. I like your building set up. Thanks for sharing. Iowa was watching. I just ordered the HM 126 a wk ago. Said it would be the end of September before it shipped.
Excellent video, very informative.
Saw a laser on another sawing channel, very slick. Also, a set of measuring cross pieces that can slide on the rails with a nail or tack in the center ring of the wood. A cross member to catch law dogs so they do not swing down so far. You have a beautiful set up, very neat and clean. You can really see how swing blade saw saves time and allows for quarter sawing. Thanks. Bob in Nevada
Those are all great ideas!
Excellent example and lesson.
👨🔧VERY INFORMATIVE THANK YOU👨🔧
It just kills me to watch someone on UA-cam wasting so much wood cause they have no clue how to saw it
nice set up
Excellent explanation, thank you
when you bring your tractor in and set your forks down right at the edge of your mill, chock your front tires with a 4x6x8 ft. it will take off time and put you right where you need to be every time for unloading your logs onto your deck. Like your construction on your deck.
Great idea!
Better yet, build a bed height log bunk and load it full...then just roll them on one by one. Less time on and off equipment.
Great, informative video.
The biggest drawback to toe boards is when you forget to lower the log after the opening cuts are made. Kind of like forgetting to lower the stops and cutting into them. 😉
My only critique with what I saw in the video was the opening cuts you made. I wasn't standing there to see the log, but it seemed to me you could have gotten a couple of at least 8' 1x6s, possibly 2x4s out of those first cuts.
It is a common practice I see in a lot of this type of videos, so I'm not picking on you specifically. But especially on logs longer than 10', there is a lot of usable side lumber thrown in the scrap pile because the sawyer opens the log to square cant size. I most often attribute it to operator inexperience.
Looks like you've got yourself set up well there. Keep on working and let experience be your teacher.
Added note, most auto wrecking yards have a multitude of perfectly good scissor jacks available cheap.
Some are designed for a goofy handle to operate them, but some have a hex on them for use with the lug wrench so a cordless driver will adapt nicely. Hydraulic Jack scan can be mounted under the bunks fairly easily also.
very much agree about the opening cuts, that thick slab would have yielded a couple boards, same for the bottom and sides, then cut to the cant size, it may seem like a wasted cut cause some times that will be a mere 1/4 inch or less, but it squares it to cant size .
Outstanding video
Excellent!
Thanks for explaining it. I’m good to go when I put my 130 Max together. Thanks
Explanations appreciated. I am now convinced !
Very good explanation of the importance of taking log taper into consideration. A simpler method for adjusting log height is to use a tapered wedge (mine is a piece of 2x4 that is 14 inches long and tapers from 2 3/4 inches to 0) and peavey to raise the small end of the log. By positioning the peavey under the log and onto the far bed rail to lever the log up, the wedge can be slid between the log bed and log. Very easy to quickly adjust the the log height and no extra tools are required. Simple is good! And the wedge helps keep the log against the log stop.
And this method also keeps the log against the log stop.
I like your idea of simplifying the process. I notice some sawyers avoid setting log stops until the weight comes down as they saw. Using a tapered block could make it possible to further simplify the process by avoiding having to turn the log over to cut the other side. You could lower the mill the desired cant size and cut through the bottom half. This could cut out the step of turning the log over & removing the toe board in some cases.
Rotate the log 90 degrees and repeat the process setting the toe board again. Two less turns and less measuring would take less time and effort. I haven’t put my mill together yet but I will try your idea.
Nice video, and a really beatiful set up you got there. I'm a relatively fresh sawyer, but I have never yet sawed a log witout using the toe board. The original one from WM works great and is very flexible to move around. Another way that I use the toe board is is to level the top edge for making traditional boards. Gets another 20% out of the log. Btw, amazingly fast growing pine you got. Here in Norway that would probably take about 100-200 years for that size. Also smart using the drill, it's a lot faster. I will start doing that too. Thanks.
These Loblolly yellow pine get to about 16-18" diameter at the base after 30 years, and that is with them spaced tight together (they were planted for pulp wood production and meant to be harvested at about 15-20 years, which did not happen). The ones that are on the edge of the forest have more room to grow and reach 20-24" in the same time. Someone told me this particular species of Loblolly was genetically engineered for fast growth and harder wood but I don't know the details. They were planted about 1992-1993 from what I gather from satellite photos.
Thanks for the great video.
I ordered same mill last weèk.....videos are 👍
I watched to find out what a toe board is, and why it"s so called. Yes , the value of one is obvious, but Toe Board?? I might have called it a Little End Support, or a Centreline Leveller, or Cant Maximiser! I guess the origin of some ancient terms can be a bit of a mystery! Great work, Jack!
I tried this out today, great lesson, thank you.
Greatly enjoyed your video ,great job
That was a good video the quality of the video was good and i learned a lot thanks. you have a nice setup
I like the result, as second growth and quick growing lends itself to timber bind or warping. Every cut you save is a time and money saver, and quality is far superior to box store (even green in my world). Thank you.
Amazing demonstration! Thank you so much for taking the extra time which was a blessing for me as I am a visual learner. I purchased the toe board accessory with my new Woodland Mills sawmill (not yet assembled) and now I better understand the value of it!
Thank you! Very informative.
Very informative!!
Thank you for this video. I got an LT40 (fully hydraulic) and got messed up using the toe board and ended up with crooked lumber, stopped using them and got twisted boards and lots of waste. Needed to see the graphic and when to raise and lower the toe board.
Will implement immediately.
Other issue are wavy cuts.
Cutting Tamarack.
Only have the mill for a few months…lots to learn.
That is a real nice mill. Wavy cut is usually easy to solve. Assuming it's a sharp blade and you are not going too fast, it will probably be related to the guides or the tension.
Waves around knots can happen even with a proper setup. A good way to see/understand that effect is to put on a new sharp blade and try shaving veneer cuts off of a knotty cant (by cutting veneers you can see the knots and watch what happens). I can cut uniform 1/16-1/8" veneers with my mill but hit a good knot and there will be a wave unless I slow way down. This is good to learn about with veneers when you can see knots, because when sawing thick lumber you won't see all the knots inside the cant and may not know how to interpret waves until it's too late.
Tamarack should be pretty easy to cut if the mill is dialed in. We had a few of those trees in New England where I grew up. Definitely a knotty tree!
This was helpful. Thanks.
Your diagram really made this clear. Watching you follow that procedure to actually cut the log was icing on the cake :)
How would you proceed to make 2x lumber from this cant?
Define "quality" lumber please.
Excellent. TY. I've been winging it👍😅👌 BTW the old scissor jacks I've been hoarding come in very handy around the homestead and one is perfect for this. I too use my drill or impact to run it up and down. Our logs here are so huge, about a ton, that hand shimming wasn't an option lol.
I'd suggest a holster for your drill either on your belt or mounted to saw carriage to save all the steps back to wall.
Finally a youtube video that I have tried to explain why this is the right way to do things. I try also to feed the small end first as its much easier to determine where the blade meets the log. There are lasers that are magnetic mount that you can mount on the outside edge and it shows exactly where the saw blade is going to hit and makes it much faster as the eye sometimes is a fibber. As a person becomes more familiar with how logs behave on the mill deck, you will also find your job easier. I have ran mills for a good fifty plus years... Yeah, I am just a punk kid at seventy an no ones business the rest of that number/lol ... I almost was old enough to vote for Jack Kennedy
Very very helpful.
Best explanation and demonstration of this I've seen so far. It looks like your eyeballing where to start the cut once you have the log leveled. Would love to hear your comments on this. I've been taking the diameter of the smaller end and multiplying by .7. Say it's 10" on the smaller end. That gives you an expected 7" sq cant. I deduct 7 from 10, leaves three. So on my first cut, I set the blade height at 8.5. flip 180, set second cut at 7 and do similar on cuts 3 and 4. Comments? Ideas? Thanks
That is a good rule of thumb to use. The 0.707 (aka, sqrt[2] over 2) comes from the cosine (or sine) of 45 degrees and tells you what size square will fit in a circle. Sometimes I will cheat a little and go higher than 0.7 if I think the cutoffs can yield extra pieces of lumber as a bonus, or if I can tolerate some bark or rounded points on the corners of the cant (usually fine for posts).
Some people will actually draw the square on the end of the log with a pencil or sharpie to visualize what they are cutting and how to get some extra boards out of the cutoffs. I've never gotten that detailed, usually just eyeball it.
I keep 1/2" stickers around that I use to stack boards to dry. If the log needs to go up on one end 1 1/2" I use a bottle Jack to lift it and put 3 stickers under the log at the bunk. Works fine. I do like the motorcycle lift though. Have one for my dirt bike. I use felling wedges on the other bunks to fill the gap and tighten the log so it doesn't bow or move too.
That was an awesome video thank you!!
Well done!
I know a guy that fairly recently started sawmilling and i can't get him to understand this at all. I hate that he wastes so much wood, but ultimately that's his time and money so i can't keep arguing with him about it.
I was hoping on the graphics portion that you had a line showing the position of the pith running through the log. Since you want to try to center the pith and keep the entire length of it inside of one board, it's important for some people to see how properly using the toe board like you do keeps the pith centered as opposed to your first diagram where it would be running diagonally through the cant.
Yeah, that would have been a smart graphic to add. All I have is the + symbol to show it on one end only.
Good info.
Thanks
I would put a mirror on the other side of that log is that log up on the center post or maybe one on the end of the building so I could see the other side of the log from the tractor seat. Another option would be a simple closed circuit camera and monitor
That's a really good idea. I have a traffic mirror somewhere in my junk pile.
Excellent video now I realise why it is so importend to use a toe board. I like the height of your timber frame where the track is bolted on to. How high is that ? what blades are you using
Base is 22” high putting the bunks at 29” high. Similar to a trailer mounted sawmill. I have been using Woodland Mils Blades and Ripper 37 blades. Both have been good.
Something that should be mentioned when you have the log overhang the end support bunk when you lift your toe board the opposite end with the over hang could possibly change So in essence you should bring up your toe board a little less to make a more accurate cut down the log! With the amount of over hang on this log your featuring here! your probably looking at a 1/8 difference but with more over hang like a couple feet or more would increase that amount being off!
For sure. Sometimes when this is the case I try to compensate a little.
Good for alot of taper in the log. Mine are pretty much uniform. I dont put big logs thru the mill. I hold to 12 feet long or so. I mostly do beams. My first cut is to skim a flat. I then drop to get something usable 1.5 inch.. Like for purlins on meatal buildings.
I've been watching sawmill videos for a year now and this is the most informative and logical video I've seen. I'm trying to set up an older Hudson mill and need to build the bed. Are your posts cemented in or are they free floating? Thank you for the reply. Very professional video, very nice!!!
The posts were put in with concrete around and below the posts to act as a footing. If doing this, be sure to go below the frostline if relevant in your location. I did another video on the sawmill base that shows some of the details.
@@Lumber_Jack Thank you!
Thanks for showing how to get it centered. I believe that the major impact is on quality of the final product because of warping, bending, splitting, stability etc... that i would think. Why is it effecting the yield of a log? - i don't get it because the final dimensions are determined in both cases by the diameter of the smaller end - the big difference is the orientation of the grain -> which reflects in the quality only - isn't it so? please advice, thanks.
I wonder if it would be simpler to measure the far end then set your saw blade to that height off the bunk so you have a visual to aim for while adjusting the toe
Thank you for your informative videos. My hm122 just came in. Did you use any blue loctite? I was thinking of using it on all my bolts…?
I didn't, and nothing has shaken loose in the two years I have run the mill. They do provide nylock nuts for some of the fasteners.
I have to disagree with you. I used bottle jacks and a floor jack for years on my mill. They were TERRIBLE. The logs had a tendency to roll off. Your flat motorcycle jack idea is a GREAT idea. It's the only way to go.
Good job!
Thank you for putting this video together. I'm ordering the scissor jack for my new 130 now? What kind of log clamps are you using? I like the way they work.
Those are the standard clamps on the HM122 mill -- they work well.
I love your shed and saw bed do you have plans for them at all.
Never did make plans, just winged it. If you have a Woodland Mills unit, the have dimensioned drawings of their mills and tracks on the website that make it easy to size up a base.
I agree a jack would be easier I just use wood and shim the center from both sides to prevent any sag or spring effects from the cut.
Hello, I just wanted to thank you for your quality information that you have put out for milling and other things. I was wondering if you could tell me which set of clamp on pallet forks do you have?
I believe they were Titan brand -- they are about 42" long, 4000# capacity. I am going to sell them since I bought SSQA pallet forks.
@@Lumber_Jack Thank you!
Perhaps if you took a piece of material that long enough to span the rails with about 6 inches either side. Run a piece dowel up through that material. Make a set screw in material piece so the dowel tip can be adjusted to center of log and locked down. You then can take the material piece to the small end of the log and then adjust the log height with tip of dowel height. Center to center Would be pretty much dead on with out having to use a tape every time.
Čovek radi baš pravilno zahvalan sam što sam naučio.
Is it necessary to roll the log 180 after your first cut? Could you not roll it 90 and leave toeboard up for your second cut then be done with the toe board?
Hi great video personnaly i use different piece of wood of diiferent height to level the tiny part of the lumber and after my first cut i only rotate 90 degrees for the next cut and after that i remove my piece of wood.Any particular reason why you rotate 180 degrees thanks.
Rotating 180 creates maximum stability on the bed, with the aim of producing a squarer cant and cleaner cuts. You're immediately flipping the log down onto the reference you created, with gravity working in your favor. Depending on the type of lumber being sawn, the first two parallel cuts establish the most accurate reference surfaces and will be important later. For other stuff (ie, posts) it does not matter so much how you do it.
I appreciate the computer diagram showing using a toe board vs not using a toe board. It just goes to show that a little pre planning, (weather making a jig, drawing your cuts on the log, or using an autocad program) can greatly reduce waste. Do you always position the log the way you did in this video (smaller diameter where you start the cut) or does it depend on how you deliver the log to the mill? Does the toe board seem to work better at beginning or end of your cant? Thanks!
I usually end up with the small end of the log on the starting end of the cut just out of habit, but the toe board setup I have could be moved to either end of the mill. Won't matter where it goes as long as the log gets leveled properly. I just used it yesterday on a log with 3" flare from one end to the other and it really helped.
How long do you have to dry before you can use the lumber ? I am guessing that may depend on the application ?
Depends on what you plan to do. For outdoor structures I frame with green lumber (I have videos about this) and as long as you plan accordingly it works great. For indoor trim or fine furniture it needs to dry for a couple years before it's stable enough. In between those two extremes are many other scenarios.
@@Lumber_Jack how about 2x4 or 2x6 wall framing for small cabin ?
@@logan979 Framing green would be fine, just be sure to constrain the studs with girts or siding to keep the wood straight while it dries, and of course don't put up vapor barrier or insulation until the structure dries out a fair amount (few months depending on climate).