Baikal & Their Posh Cousin
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- Jonny goes through Baikal shotguns and their posh cousin Tskib Soo
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Got a blue heeler puppy, decided to be a bird hunter. Bought a Baikal because of the cost at a pon shop. Didn’t know anything about shotguns. Couldn’t hit anything, learned about gun fit. and started gun smithing. Fluted the comb,hot oil bent the stock for an inch of cast, cut the stock for negative pitch on the butt pad,did some mother of pearl inlays. Now it feels, and shoots good. My puppy is now 3 years old and retrieves like a maniac.
There is a gamekeeper who works on a very prestigious Yorkshire shooting estate swears by his baikal and he can outshoot guns costing 10x as much.
Guns that are ten times as much as a Baikal? That would be an ATA 😅
I've had a Baikal over under for years and its never failed once. It's not fancy but dam it's reliable.
im 55 i got mine at 15. never not worked, and shot more than expensive made guns did. my pop always said there are more good guns around than good shots.
@@darrynworthy7129 Your pop is a wise man.
I realize I'm kind of off topic but do anybody know a good place to watch newly released movies online ?
@Kolton Santana lately I have been using Flixzone. Just search on google for it =)
@Nikolas Stanley Yup, I have been using flixzone for years myself :)
i was in my tractor once and I was rolling the field the baikel fell out and got run over by the tractor and the roller.the gun didn’t even get a mark running it over and it still works and performs to this day #welovebaikels
Was the tractor damaged in any way?
Graham Stubbs ha ha luckily not
Bought one in 85 sxs walnut stock,cost 169.95 new, added 2 inch to length used for everything from clays to pheasants, never once let me down. Bought more expensive guns in the last ten years had missfires non ejected shells brocken firing pins etc etc.based on my experience, if I could only have one gun in my life it would have to be my baikal, it's a hammer which never fails me, and they do kick especially now I'm getting older. Good review.
Online conversation about Baikal's reliability, someone suggested that you buy one, shoot it for 40 years and then bang it into the ground and use it as a fence post.
To which someone else suggest you buy one, immediately bang it into the ground and use it as a fence post and pull it out the ground any time you need to shoot something....
Remington imported these into the U.S. back in the early 2000’s under the label Spartan by Remington. I bought the SPR-310 O/U Sporting Model. It has never failed at the trap or skeet range or in the field after 3,000 plus round through it. After shooting it for a few years I did some upgrades. I replaced all of the factory chokes with after market chokes. I had a softer recoil pad put on by my gunsmith which was a major improvement over the brick that came with it. Installed a new white front bead. And finally I refinished the stock with a red mahogany stain and tung oil. It still may be a Baikal but it is now a lot prettier and functions just fine.
Happiness is my Baikal d/b 16g hammer gun. "Floats like a butterfly,stings like a bee"
Had one about 50 years ago bought new and loved it
@@danjamison3727 Still own one Dan, purchased new in 63 I had to wait 6 weeks for it to go through the UK proof house.
What a nice take on Russian shotguns. As a Russian, I couldn't have done it better myself. Tskib is just a special division of the factory in Tula known as TOZ outside Russia and the posh guns are blandly called МЦ. It's pronounced "EmTse", second part sounds like half of the name of the horrible African fly Tsetse. I wish there was an English version of the article on MTse on Wikipedia. Anyway, thanks a lot for such a treat in these tough times.
Fascinating, do you have a link to the page in Russian, would love to see it?
@@tgsoutdoors MC has long been a division of another Russian factory-Tula weapons factory (TOZ). Now the weapons of the MC are produced by an independent legal entity-the CCIB.
@@tgsoutdoors ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/МЦ_111 and ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/МЦ255 are worth a look.
I own a MC-08 with skeet barrels and trap barrels and it is AMAZING 😍
@@tgsoutdoors Hi Jonny, take a look at this www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=124415
Next cheap to charming a baikal!
It may happen.
This!!!!
I own a TOZ 66 and a Izh 18. Very robust and reliable. With the 50 year old TOZ i reached 15/15 when clay pigeon shooting leaving all the Beretta, Browning and Perazzi owners speechless. The TOZ is a tank, almost undistructable, i can hand it over to my grandchildren
A 153 Baikal is honestly a real workhorse. They can actually be nicely modified into decent practical shotguns too, if you can get those parts. Good to know a bit of Russian too.
Great review...
I'm a bit bias as I own the MP153 in synthetic stock (my only regret of the gun). I use it for decoying, ducks on the marsh and the odd fox outing.
A small adjustment on the comb and I'm on the ball. I clean it only when it starts to cycle slower, usualy after a summer of pigeon decoying.
Yes, after what you said I'd agree its a great snap shooter and found I got better results on the clay range with a low port stance rather than it shouldered.
There's many a lad who up graded grom thier o/u and wished they'd kept it rather than trade.
We were out on a club sporting clay shoot (couple of members on national and international clay scene). One lad turned up with his sxs and wiped some of the regular competitive members eye. He had his Baikal that he got as a kid and still uses to day.
Long live the Russian railway sleeper.
I'll take a Baikal o/u over any Turkish gun all day.
Armsan Rs-S1?
@@tgsoutdoors That's totally unfair, we should compare it to a Saiga12 or Vepr 12.
Agreed
I’d take a Baikal over my koffs/yildiz everytime koffs is going
17 years ago the very first gun I ever shot was my dad's old baikal bk27/mk27 (who knows I can't read Russian) at the local DTL and it knocked the stuffing out of me... Fast fwd 8 years from then, I inherited it and have cherished it since. I took my first ever duck, on a driven game day, with it. I own 2 brownings a 525 SL and a maxus as well and to be honest going on a driven duck day I would probably still reach for the baikal each time.
I have two IZH27-EM-1C, 12ga and 28ga. Bought the 12ga 11 years ago and the 28ga a year ago. Haven't used the 28ga yet, but the 12ga was used for hunting many times. Never failed me once. Love them!
Spot on Jonny!
My 30+ year old 12 bore side by side, has served me well in the pigeon hide and on the salt marsh, and never failed! (The old Baikal cartridges were awesome through it on the geese and ducks - If you didn't mind the two foot jet of flame from the muzzle!)
I wouldn't sell it for £300 quid.
Keep up the sterling work matey.
I used to buy the 70mm Baikal cartridges because they were so powerful and also the cheapest too - I get the bit about the muzzle flash, I reckon in a gun with 30" or greater barrels this power could have been a great advantage.
we used baikal shells in the 80s no7 killed ducks at 70 yards dead everytime. 70 yards was the limit. we test shells on rabbits at longer ranges and if it kills a rabbit it will kill a duck easier, same shells on qauil. and shot qauil out to 70. mine patterns so tight.
Seems like, Baikal is the AK47 of the shotgun world. Not the prettiest or the most accurate, but reliable and economical.
i HAVE a izh 27 over and under 12 gauge ..heavy and reliable ...........It just goes bang every time.also has a lot of features that expensive guns have ... selective triggers ..and only eject the shells that you shoot ...very far I may add ............I an om a budget .....chrome lined barrels.............. Baikal is the the AK 47 of shot guns ...nice video
My first shotgun was an old second hand Balkal. Always worked and never had any issues with it. Great thing was I never worried about it getting damaged out in the field.
Picked up a used sp230 pretty cheap. Been using it on pheasants and grouse for 5 years now. I am actually impressed with how nice the wood looks on such a cheap shotgun. Double trigger turns a few heads of other pheasant hunters as you don’t see many in the field state side. Looks nice and not worried about scratching it or anything in the field with the price point. Perfect working mans over under
I picked up a pertty much new Baikal SBS at auction for a fiver. Taken it out on the clays. Really not a bad word to say about it. And on the range, against people with very expensive guns, I get miser points! (I usually leave the auction tag hanging from the trigger guard, just to make the point.)
i like baikal shotguns very much. i have mp 155, mp 27 e, ij 58 all are baikal
I started my over-under shotgun journey with a bakail. Bit stiff. Still didn't stop me from beating guys with browning blazer and other nice guns. I did out grow it quickly
👍🏻 Exactly ! They are a tool that will work for a very long time ! Good video !!
I freely admit to being a Baikal fanboy. I bought a Baikal hammer gun fifty years ago for wildfowling. I sold itt on years ago,something I regret, but see it occasionally at a clay shoot where it still does the business in the hands of its umpteenth owner. Avoid those made at the time of the collapse of the USSR but otherwise thoroughly recommended.
I had a baikal 27, it was a great gun until the inertia block went while in a duck boat and I had a simultaneous firing of two alphamax. I had to be pick up off the deck 😂🤦♂️🤷♂️
I’ve a beretta 682, and a baikal 27 magnum, the baikal is actually my favourite to shoot, you are right about the stocks on the o/u, and the finish is poor, and the ejectors are sharp as razors but I still love mine, also ppl complaining about the ejectors turning on and. Off don’t understand the mechanism, you can switch em on off with the trigger and most ppl don’t know this
Great video, I have a Baikal 27 O/U for my girls to shoot, if we are going to fit a comb riser anyway, doing it to a Baikal seems easier to justify :). Came with 26 and 28 in barrels and it’s nice and light for the girls. They love it, although I believe they need to be blessed with vodka to work well
If you check the information on the Internet, you will find that Russians drink alcohol much less than many European Nations.
I own a mp153/ mp27 and even if they don't use tank barrels, they are built lile tanks. Awesome guns.
I just bought my firs shotgun.
It's a Baikal IJ 12 over under, from 1966.. I could buy any other... But I wanted to buy this...I love it.
I’ve got an old baikal sbs none ejector which gets thrown on the front of the quad when I go through the woodland, I always end up taking something back to the house with me 😂
One of my friends when I was a kid had an O/U Baikal 12 bore with double triggers. Built like a tank and shot reliably but I have high cheekbones and so the comb whacked me in the face each shot.
In the light of my 30 years of hunting experience with baikal shot gun I can say that you have on your table the world's best shot gun.
Happy Easter 💖, concerning that izh.. I have both love and hate thing with. Bought a single trigger o/u that was quite good in weight distribution and finish. The reason why it “pulls up” while shooting is imho due to the single yet very strong (bascule) hence making the barrels a bit higher on the receiver. Unlike any other Italian brands where we have two hinges on each side of the receiver making the barrels “sink” inside making a more linear shape maybe? Later on I bought a hammer side by side brand new, and the chokes were stuck!!! No way you could remove them without freakin surgery! Sold it without a second thought.. Yes they are strong tough guns those who have them in my country swear by them regardless of their other higher end guns
I do own a vintage Purdey and a fifty year u/o Baikal, there is nothing to choose between the two of them they both send shot up the barrel and work flawlessly. The only difference between the two is the snob factor.
I have a sxs hammer 16 Baikal that was re barreled by a local gunsmith about 20 years ago to 45-90 Winchester, kicks like a coal miners mule , but it's still tight and on face .
Sat down to watch with a serious face, waiting for a trick, finished watching laughing and falling off the chair, fire!
The ultimate multi tool. Spend all day knocking fence posts and staples in with it then shoot a rabbit for your dinner with it!
We had a Baikal sxs for 20 or so years. I think it was an IJ53 non-ejector. It developed a bulge half way down one barrel and was eventually surrendered to police for destruction. It was a nasty gun that kicked like a mule. We also have a 125 year old Henry Atkin that is a joy to shoot. We bought the Baikal when 2 1/2 inch shells became hard to find in Australia. I don't think I'd buy another Baikal in a hurry.
Hi Jonny, I own a Baikal 12/g o/u ij27e and also a AYA yeuman s/s and yes the Baikal kicks like a mule but I works very well, Its a good working all round practical shotgun
Nice review, I did clay shooting in the late 80s in Devon and baikals were fairly common.
I have seen people shoot very well with them at clay shoots. Infact my cousin used one for a while. I think you can get used to them. Perhaps use light loads?? We were all using 32 g back then.
Nice review Jonny working in a small provincial gun shop I can say that you will always sell a baikal o/uthey really are bomb proof and so cheap £100 to £150 ish for a minter personally I can't hit the ground with one but that's more me than the gun. Thanks for carrying on at this awful time more miroku please
I get what you say about snap shooting. I found my Baikal very fast handling. Some of my best shots were with my Baikal 27, snipe,woodcock,duck, pheasant,rabbit,pigeon etc they all fell to my Baikal. Traded it for my yeoman SxS. Wound up wanting another o/u and wound up with one of the sarasketa's that you tested in a cheap vs expensive episode
I have (for fun) single and side by side Baikal's and love them, for some reason I score about 30% better with the side by side than my Beretta Silver Pigeon on clays.
It's a pity that with the single barrel there are only 2 times a year to really use one, The North Cotes Baikal Challenge, a bit like a rifle, if you point it at something you'll hit it.
And paid less than £150 for both, just nice to have 👍
I do shoot a Remington Spartin 310 which is made by Baikal I like it, it fits me well ported screw in chokes turned off my ejecters
There are two different gun manufacturers in Russia first is baikal u mentioned it correctly and second one is toz guns manufactory from the city of tula and in this toz factory there was цкиб u said skim it was place where all high quality guns are made in russia, мц6 мц7 мц8 even мц 111. they are really good guns and also they are pretty pricey as well
My 16 bore Baikal hammer double was purchased by me over 60 years ago and is still as good as new.
I recently bought a Baikal 43 side by side for the absurd sum of £75; I needed an old school non-ejector side by side as part of the ensemble for cowboy action competition shooting.
Furthermore, I went into the purchase fully aware of Baikals, unlovely stocks, and their general ugliness, as I'd genned up watching videos on the subject.
However, I was well surprised to discover the stock was actually made from a really nice piece of wood and ran consistently throughout the gun. It looks to have hand cut chequering and gives an excellent grip. I'd rather there wasn't any engraving on the breech, but there is - looks to be a simple design done by hand with a kind of prison tattoo naïveté. The metal work is nicely blued with no scratches. Bores are in excellent order. It actually fits me well for snap-shooting. Someone has obviously loved this gun because it's a gnat's cock away from immaculate condition. The lock work is good and tight. Not a wiggle anywhere on the gun.
I have a number of quite expensive 'quality' guns in my cabinet but the Baikal has rapidly become a favourite for its rugged honesty. I can't believe I got so much gun for a measly seventy-five quid!
If the barrels are interchangeable the magic would be in sourcing the part. My IZH 27 is an import through EAA corps in the state. I think about 20 years ago. Then Remington was relabeling Baikals as Spartans.
Mine was horrid to shoot until I cut a few coils off the ejector springs. Before that I could barely close the thing.
You had weapons that were probably manufactured at a time when Russia was on the verge of collapse, hence the poor quality.
Hello dear friends, i want to buy a baikal 27 but i cant understand what he is talking about baikal 😊 My english is not enough well, is he saying baikal is good?
Ahhh Baikal...…...still better than a trukish gun.
😂
Well, the ejectors from my Baikal get stuck all the time, and I've lost plenty of game trying to get that freaking shell out of the barrel. Other than that, it's great.
i been shooting one since 1980, never broke never not fired, for my build they fit pereft, just had to add a pad for a longer stock for me. a few years ago the forearm wood split straight along under the barrel. oil stock and tons of use, and i mean not babied about nor shot clays, farm used everyday. needs a tighten up. but man its fired a lot of shells. wood i think split as i use the stoager with steel shot, bak when i used the baikal every week it was oiled often. i cant blame the wood, its old and abused. glue and its fixed. andive not seen or used a gun that can out kill my baikal, and i have shot and been around lots of other guns. but more good guns abut than good shots as my grandfather always said...and he loved english made guns. he was born around 1900 though. lots more brands around now
What about Baikal MP27 EM 1C Sporting?
Please try to make a shooting test and a review!
I think many of us are interested!
Respect from Romania!
If only we could get them here!
@@tgsoutdoors I would be very interested in that one too. Can you like... try harder or something... to get one? I don't want to sound selfish but please keep in mind that your reviews about double barrels are gold standard in YT. So, you have the obligation to sneak into Mother Russia and fetch one Baikal... hidden in a bottle of vodka... while being chased by Putin himself.
Back in the early 70`s you could buy a 12b hammer gun (IN THE POST!!) for £49.99p. Mate I used to shoot with loved it , used it as a `club` to despatch pricked stuff!! Chrome barrels etc .. But can remember at Game fair (Mid 70`s ) seeing a pair of O/U,s made for some european `Knobs`
absolutely stunning . . .wonder where they are today?? ....
I’ve bought a baikal as my first gun over under and I font my licence just as Coronavirus hit 😂
Still got some Baikal Record shells or shoild I say shoulder shockers / Duck butt flame throwers.
I had an MT9 many years ago , very high quality , expensive and beautiful shotgun
Chuck Norris shoots a Baikal... nuf said 👊
Something else a lot of people do not know about Russian guns concerns the choice of steels for barrels etc. Due to the very low ambient temperatures in Russia at certain times of the year steels chosen for heavy loadings in outdoor conditions need to have high sub-zero impact values as the Germans (tank component failures) and the Americans (Liberty ship problems) discovered in WW2. These steels do not come cheap.
I have a baikal wouldn't trade it for anything, reliable, consistent, nice weight, only thing I had to do was add 2" to the back end as you say they are short, otherwise a good tool for anything. Some say it's the man behind the gun that makes the difference. 👍 Nice story though and I would actually buy a fancy baikal if I could find one
I think your a secret baikal fan Johnny! (I've a second hand 27 and I love its rough rustic charm and reliability) I've spent more on carts than the cost of the gun, nó messing!
Hmmm, it would have to a very deep secret.
Baikal Shotguns Will Go 10 Times The Price They Are Now In 5 Years, Watch !
Thank you, I got one and it shoots well
So I guess listening to your explanation Jonny, for Baikal - read Land Rover Defender?? 😎😎
Nah, I like land rover defenders.
Definitely a Baikal member's club Fanboy
I now own 2 of the MP94 combo guns. I enjoy the robustness of these combo guns as a game getter, to put food on the table, but no it isn't a pretty $7K shotgun. Of course, I always wonder, does the $7K gun shoot better and hold up better. My guess is I will never know. Those who don't have a $7K gun say, No. Those who have a $7K gun (or a $7K anything) feel the need to tell everyone how much better their $7K gun is.... and the $14K guy will tell the $7K guys that their guns are CRAP. I keep thinking if I had a $14K gun how much I would cry when I eventually scratch it.
In the USA, we have more pump and auto guns. I would love to know more about the Baikals and more about the internal especially. If you have one and it needs servicing, please take yours into have it looked over/after and film it. PLEASE.
They are a bit of a plain Jane but they are a work Horse very reliable
Jon, Great videos, please keep up the good work. I have a Beretta 690 and after fourteen months the black is wearing off on the bottom of the receiver. Have you seen this before? Wishing you best regards, JZ Montana USA
Johnnie, why did you corner yourself in this box. It was nice when you were in the shop. Such a nice presentation as this should be done in a more pleasing environment.
#stayhome
Here in Norway Baikal is extremely popular. My dad will rather use his Baikal than his 7k $ Beretta, when we go grouse hunting.. He feels he hits better.
Baikal and Vostok are not the names of the guns, nor the names of the producers. These are the trademarks of 2 USSR exporting state owned enterprises. Basicaly there were 3 main shotgun producers in USSR: Mechanical Plant of Izhevsk (based in Izhevsk) - durable but poorly finished guns, Tula Armory - producer of the hunting guns of the medium quality and TSKIB (as well based in Tula) - hand made olimpic shooting guns and a high end hunting sidelock producer. Tskib was mainly imported to the U.K. under the name of Vostok and are known for its Olimpic trap and skeet models MC-6,8,106,108 and some of the hunting sidelocks: mc-9,11, 109. Vostok competition boxlocks do have a dozen of olimpic medals won in 1950-1990ss ( the last one in Australian Olimpics) both in skeet and in trap and are well known for its tula choked skeet barrels and incredable durability. In fact there still is an opinion that tula chokes were so effective with the high volume loads that it influenced FITACS to decrease the competition loads from 32 grams down to 24 grams to omit the gandicap effect these barrels were giving to the Russians. As the olimpic shooting loads were decreasing MC became available for the general public that in the process of its domestic use have discovered that tula chocked barrels not only extremely good with high volume shots but are very accurate in bullet shooting. Twice was using the MC - 108 skeet gun equiped with tula chockes for the bear cave (berloga) hunt and it worked great.
All i heard was bagels, jokes aside though they are the real aks of the patterning world
What's more acceptable on driven day Jonny: semi automatic or sxs Baikel?
I met a guy on the clay range once....pulled up in a big jag car and enquired about the gun I was using, I sheepishly showed him my Baikal I had at the time and he said it was exactly the same as his! He told me he uses his half the day driven shooting up til lunch to soak up the abuse then takes out his matched pair of Holland and Holland's (think he said matched pair) after lunch to redress the balance of abuse. Lovely chap he was
May you check on the Khan shotguns?
There is currently no Uk importer.
@@tgsoutdoors ahh, bummer...
Time he made his mind up!
If they make a workhorse 20ga. Single shot with choke options (26-8bbl)-I'm in like Flynn👍
Remember the Baikal Record cartridges. They would destroy a tank in 6 shot 😇
A tank and your shoulder all in the same
Shot
I’ve been given a fuw boxes from a friend Will give them a try through my Beretta A400 next time crow shooting
I was always under the impression that Tskib Soo was to Tula what Lexus is to Toyota.
Where Benneli and berreta melts from there baikal hardness starts.
Всегда интересно послушать стороннее мнение, спасибо.
baikal handling bad? i dont know about you, but my baikal and a winchester silver pigeon come to my shoulder the same, but the baikal is lighter. you are too young, my day you had to feel each gun off the shelf until one fited you add a pad if you need lenght. we had no choices.
i tried a lamber and the baikal and the baikal came up perfect rib wise, and hunting rabbits and quail you snap shoot a lot.
So the debate should be around hunting guns as hunting guns.
If it fits it fits, why would you alter the rib ect….why oh why. Really don’t get it once a gun fits you that’s it. Your over thinking it all, trying to drag out time for the video. Don’t stick to basic facts your going to confuse gun owners first starting out.
is a baikal semi auto shotgun good ? can you do a video of the semi auto baikal ?
I believe that old enough and perhaps new baikal shotguns are surprising good quality, at least the one I used that is made in the 60- 70s. I think the worst individuals are made around the 90s. The collapse of the Soviet Union was clearly reflected in the quality of Russian products. The quality of baikal shotguns is amazingly often heard by completely opposite experiences. this may be due to products made in those bad times. I think my own will last even for the third generation of my family if there is still any use for it.
Best weapon
Thanks this made.a.change from cutting the lawn. Again
Glad it’s not just me who has portioned their lawn up so that I get to start the mower each day for some excitement
Первые минуты не мог понять, да что такое он вообще несёт!?! )))
Very interesting! Hi from West Siberia!
Greetings from USA.
@@wholeNwon)))) Glad to you
@@klonman235 May I ask where in Siberia?
@@klonman235 Large city. Has about twice the population of the whole state where I live.
Didn't realize that you have one of the great zoos in the world.
@@klonman235 It must be magnificent. I once lived in northern New York near the Canadian border and in Connecticut. The autumns were spectacular. But the winters were brutal...not Siberian-brutal, but bad enough.
Cheap to charming Baikal SxS addressing the stock dims and refin?
Are there any manufacturers who make new, good quality single barrel shotguns?
The only company I found who make probably better quality one is Henry. Would like a test from you guys. But are there more out there?
There are various makers who do, most do the Turkish makers for example
I will see what I can do regarding the Henry
Isnt their factory already closed? MTS 255 and 502 is gone forever.
I was reading a on Russian forum that the former employees of Tskib Soo/TOZ/KBP were creating/re-starting production. That was in 2019... Prior to this whole Covid thing...
Lol I'm sure I'll own one at some point lol how's lockdown going for you
My Russian perdey is exceptional... Non eject 4'.5" to short for me... But I'll never get rid of it
everything is 4.5" to short for you my gigantic friend
@@tgsoutdoors we're just true adult size...
There is a big difference between Baikal guns and MTs guns. The Baikal shotguns are product of Izhevsk mechanical plant (a part of Kalashnikov Group) and we call it russian Browning, but MTs shotguns are a product of Tula's TSKIB which is a special (sport, elite, luxury) division of Tula's arms plant and we call it russian Boss. As an owner of MTs-108-04 I can say that it is one of most reliable shotguns which official resource is more than 300 000 cartridges. In early 90-eis of last century the sport series of MTs-108 was discontinued. Nowadays they produce a limited number of hunting and sport shotguns and rifles for an astronomical prices).
Discontinued guns www.tulatskib.ru/razrabotki/civilianr/index.php
To understand the design philosophy behind Russian guns it is necessary to understand the Russian people and a national philosophy. I have worked with the Russians on a number of occasions (UN) and owe them my life. They are not to be sneered at.
The worst shotgun for clays. Mp27e 1c i had it and thank god i get rid of it
Baikal, the other other "B" gun
BAIKAL MP 18 12 3 ❤💝
Agly sheat guns
Just like a zabala?