HUMANKIND Religion, Faith and Religious Pressure Tutorial & Improvements
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- Опубліковано 23 сер 2021
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Welcome to today's Humankind video where I talk about Religion and Faith in Humankind. This video will cover off the necessary workings of Faith and Religion in Humankind before then discussing whether the concept is really good enough - is faith important in Humankind game? what does faith do in humankind game? humankind game religion tips and tutorial, and humankind game faith guide. Then I'll also offer some ideas on why
Humankind's faith system isn't necessarily bad, it's just.. well.. a bit basic. And perhaps, that's not a bad thing? I suggest the lack of physical units assigned to faith makes it feel (and indeed it is) more passive than other 4X titles. I personally don't mind that, but physical units could be added to impact on humankind game's religious sphere of influence system. I'll also suggest a way the game could perhaps manage it instead, using a 'leader of the faith' of 'head of faith' mechanic to at least broadly set a direction for religious spread and impact.
Let me know what you think in the comments below! :)
#HumankindGame #Humankind #JumboPixel #Gameplay #Strategy
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Title: HUMANKIND | The Religion System...
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Bro you are a video making machine. Love to see your enthusiasm it's actually contagious but dont burn yourself out!
i think it's too much hands off at the moment, although i wouldn't like having misionaries and the like as how's it's done in civ6,
so the solution you proposed sits very well, it's still hands off, but you have some level of control over it and it adds a bit into the diplomatic screen as well, as you could, for example, focus evangelizing your neighbors so you could have greivances and get a justified war, it's only a tiny bit more involved, but you're already giving the player more agency over the game
I find it odd they left out holy wars/crusades. I don't think this game needs to go Crusader Kings 3 level religion focus, but slighlty more control and more profound effects from choices would be good.
@@tr4l1975 well... holy war is an event that can trigger if your fighting someone of an opposing religion.... but because its one of the random events you will almost never see it... and all it does it give your soldiers extra combat strength...
@@arcanumelite4853 There sort of is a holy war that can be declared, but no system in place for something like for what a Crusade or Jihad is supposed to be like. It’s just a grievance you have available to you if you select the religious hostilities civic.
Damn the video grind is real! Respeck
A good metric for judging systems in 4X games is how does it compare to reality. In reality religion is spread both by passive means and by the sword. A good change for religion in Humankind would be to allow cultures with certain religious civics to spread faith to the cities they conquer.
Keep up the videos! Your the first video im getting on my recommended now!
I think the biggest problem they made is having faith oppose science. That and the fact that the final tenant of the faith tree is to remove your religion, makes me wonder a bit motivationally. I mean you can even take scientific tenants to your faith...
Isn't there some option in there about whether the religion has to be taken literally or if only its metaphorical principals apply?
I think its a working foundation with a smart idea behind it, but thats about it, I wouldnt call it a legitimate feature...
the spreading and pressure around religion I like but its as if the devs forgot to add any actual functionality to their idea. No special buildings, units, real diplomatic moves.
And there is no religious endgame. 4 tiers is not enough, you can max that out in the classical age and then it does nothing for the rest of the game
@@asdf_asdf948 that kinda reflects reality when you think about it :D but I know what you mean
@@mejdlocraftci nah not really, religion only declined in the contemporary era, hell in the last 40ish years. That's only half of the contemporary era. Plus there are highly religious countries like in the middle east i.e. saudi arabia, uae, dubai that are modern (even if a significant number of the population aren't wealthy). Also, even if it reflects reality that doesn't make it a fully fleshed out game mechanic. In a game asking how far the player can push humanity, why is there no option to reform religion to make it applicable to modern cultural aesthetics?
@@asdf_asdf948 I wasnt talking about decline. What I meant is that the religion didnt really develop past the late medieval age/early modern. It didnt decline after that but it did stagnate and kinda stayed the same.
Now when I think of it they might have introduced some sort of charity mechanics tied to religion in the contemporary era..
And I agree with you, at the beginning I said there are missing any significant mechanics and incentives behind religion. There are only the tenets basically
@@mejdlocraftci if you think religion hasnt innovated since the dark ages may i point you to the reformation, which was right on the cusp of the industrial era, and modern cults like scientology?
I like the faith system, but it's just not rewarding enough to invest in it. There's no incentive to expand your religion across the world with more faith when tenants are independent of the number of followers. I think there should a layer of tenants which are bonuses based on number of people / cities following religion or even big bonuses for number of empires adopted it as state religion, and there should be bonuses only the leader of it can get
Only thing it gives is stability bonus from relgious buildings.
@@rushmore1321 I feel like the stability is the main reason I build them lol
@@DavidSmith-mt7tb the stability is the only reason i put them down
The strange thing about religion is that on my 3 playthroughs my religion dominated the world in Turn 100 without much investment in holy sites etc
I am seeing the same thing. I’m at tier 4 by turn 150 and religion is an afterthought for the next 150 turns. It also seems like the religion difficulty is lower than the other game mechanics.
Lots of people are saying that. The problem is that the game needs to include a mechanic for internal religious division (i.e. sects, schisms, heresies). Sects should have a chance of cropping in within a religion's territory and then spreading based upon various factors including how they relate to the original religion from which they sprang. If they take over a holy site then their rate of spreading should be faster than the original religion unless addressed in some way. I could say a lot more on this but it's not my job to fix this part of the game.
I can see it's potential to give it more value in game and as you continue to grow any nation.
I know I'm late to the discussion, however I do agree with you Jumbo; the religious gameplay is a little light. I like your idea of an additional control element where a player can manage prioroties. My own thoughts for improving this mechanic are based on the spread of religion through story and evangalist; additionally the historical link with leadership and divinity, which is still present in todays cultures (iirc, the UK monarchy is still the ceremonial head of the Church of England). Already in the game, but could be reinforced, is how religious ideas shape laws and social norms. The very concept of society and definitions of right and wrong can be traced to religious concepts. By adding a facility to inhance the prioritisation of such concepts the game could push religion out to other socities, reinforce social trends, give additional legitamacy to claims/grievences, etc. I hope Amplitude can take your idea and develop it.
Does the position of your holy sites matter? I thought it did, but maybe that was just my imagination.
It feels weird that there's no fame associated with faith. I think some "faith stars" would nudge me into picking Tradition over Progress more often.
I wish there were more than 4 tiers. I tend to max it out pretty early without really even trying to. There should be six, IMO, to match with the eras.
My guess is that we won't see much change until we get some kind of religion DLC.
The jews need to be an early civ when the religion dlc comes out
What it's missing is internal division, i.e. sects, schisms, heresies. Having divisions crop up _within_ the territory of a religion then spreading if left unaddressed or addressed in an inappropriate way (which should vary depending on both the positions of the sect and the original religion) would add an additional level of unpredictability to the game, especially when heresies begin to take over holy sites and spread into territories outside the realms of the religion from which they sprang in the first place. This would require some AI direction but it wouldn't be any harder than it is for Independent Peoples right now.
Using actual human history as a template, I propose creating military units -- "Crusaders" as it were -- who spread religion when they conquer cities.(Each civilization would have its own version of this, starting in the Middle Ages.) Another idea is to create various houses of worship -- shrines, temples, cathedrals, mega-churches, etc. -- that you can build as traditional infrastructure and become more powerful with each era.
I think that faith should give you cultural influence over the territories where it has spread. Religion has always been a way to gain and maintain influence over territories and it would be good for gameplay because it gives you a reason to invest in religion. Furthermore, I would like the option of starting inquisitions and missions in my territories because this would make the system more interactive while being in line with what real life cultures actually did. It would also work together with other systems. You could have reasons to conquer a city with a holy side to boost the influence of your religion which would give you cultural influence over more areas - so basically, a holy war.
I think fate will be explored on a dlc that may bring faith cultures, also fate and civis right now are deeply linked.
They will surely extend the religion system with some DLCs
This is at least better than civ where you need to spam missionaries and the AI just somehow spams a million more
Having faith infrastructure could help. Also, one of the social axis could be orthodoxy vs living religion for exemple, changing how your faith interacts with others. These type of changes would make faith a bit more hands on. Maybe putting it as a cultural trait could also work
I havent started playing yet, but the way you explain it sounds good, at least better than civ 6 imo
I'd love to see a "Leader of the Faith" mechanic at a high level like you described. It would be great to be able to choose whether to go on offense, or mount a full-effort defense against an encroaching empire's religion. Maybe going too hard one way or another could backfire in certain situations? Maybe the player could give just the slightest nudge which snowballs their religion into a global power. Could be a lot of fun.
Your recommendation for faith leader reminds me crusader kings where you can have them focus on converting certain territories or focus them on additional piety generation or other things.
I wonder if Humankind would benefit from having a more tangible faith resource that would be like influence and you spend it on tenets instead of policies but could also get like infrastructure techs to build in cities to generate it from other things like tiles and unlock other things to spend it on like military units that would be like crusader/templars and such. But that would slow down acquiring tenets/faith policies as a trade off.
What do I think of faith in humankind? If you still have any, you're doing great. I lost my faith in humankind years ago.
I really like your leader of the Faith concept and keeping Religion on the Macro level as humankind's religion system is meant to be a supplement rather than a focus (As it doesn't generate fame directly). You could still add buildings/Priests but keep them at the Macro level, such as just unlocking features for the player to enact or powering them up said features as you have more proselytisers. Biggest Issue with the current system is several of the tenets are boring and really underpowered, particularly the higher tiered ones and you finish all the tiers in the mid game quite easily.
It seems like religion has a good starting foundation but needs more work. In my game I just picked bonuses and had no idea what I was doing.
I like your idea of a religion leader we can interact with - maybe we can create another avatar character. Since in real life religions are separate entities from nations, maybe the avatars can give you quests for different bonuses (build x temples for increased money output or something)
A few more suggestions, given the theme of the game, a lot more customization, for instance I could model my religion based off of the Ancient Greek religion and build temples to Zeus or base it off Mayan religion and build step pyramids. Religion should also change in each era, going from stone temples in the ancient era to mega churches in the modern era and giving you different bonuses. Also we need icons for each religion and those should be added to city names like in Civilization.
We get to name our profit mold him the way we would like then maybe he dies and then the religion goes passive and plays out over the course of the game
I've played 3 games so far and each time my religion has very quickly dominated the globe. It doesn't seem to play a role in the sphere of influence though. I think those two things should be linked to some degree.
there is a slight problem with your "leader of the faith action" idea, its that your character is the leader of your fate, as it is metioned in a late game event about the religion's policy on televisive entertainment and conectivity. either way i would love to see a possible action menu as the leader of the faith
I actually quite like this passive system of religion and religious pressure in a game that is already full of narrative driven gameplays. No CIV 6 style religious wars please. My only complaint would the lack of specific fame points you can get from various religious events or achievements. In addition, secularism and atheism should not be the only end-points. Until now, "world religion + world empire" is still a working formula on some part of the world, though it might be somehow difficult for a French game studio to recognize this.
Based on the theory that you don’t build faith units as a macro level overlord, that same logic would apply to building military units, yet the game has you micromanage military units.
Not saying we need faith units, but the logic doesn’t quite hold. I do think faith needs expanded upon. It’s currently so passive that unless you really understand some benefits it’s easy to completely ignore.
But empires do manage military units for the most part where religion is largely beyond the control of governments, as much as governments like to try to control it.
Using the court system like Crusader kings 3 sounds like a good plan.
My issue that I don't care if I don't follow the religions I chose at the beginning because the bonuses are quite small.
Do religious bonuses apply to anyone following a religion? so if u get taken over by ur neighbours religion do u still get their bonuses? U just don't get to control them?
I hope first Humankind dlc will be about faiths and will add more cultures religious oriented (maybe Papal/Vatican, Tibetan etc.) or even new stance "Religious" like "Expansionist" , "Aesthete" etc.
Also you should have faith fame stars... Judea is another good early fame civ they can add
Faith is like the weather it acts independently of the government often undermining it, until the government unable to hold, it back any longer then joins with it to subvert/control it, these 4X games c it only from the state manipulation aspect which kinda diminishes the major driver (and thorn in the side of the elites) for the current civ in the West. Just sayin. (yes these games do help shape the way we think about the world!).
i have no ideea what to do to stop the enemy from converting me to their religion. i went for the stone rings>temple of artemis immediately as they were available, kept a massive population in my city and done absolutely no recruiting so as to have as high of a population possible with the faith per pop civic, still babylon converted everything in 10 turns most. in another game i picked faith per territory but i never got to pick my first tenent because anyway the olmecs converted me in a few turns since their religion was even on the. what should i do?? it's frustrating and mind you this is on medium difficulty. it's either something i'm missing either the game has some issue
Agree with others here that religion feels like a tacked on system and not too compelling a game mechanic. The last Civ I loved was Civ IV and I think they nailed it. You could legitimately take a Religious strategy, getting income for the more cities that followed your religion, religious buildings that boosted your culture, could establish firm alliances and holy wars and win the game by being the leader of the biggest religion in the world. Humankind has a fair enough base system but needs building on.
That said I moved on from Civ IV towards Endless Legend. And if it's one thing Amplitude do well it's focussing on a playstyle for a DLC, so I could see a religious DLC to do well.
But for now, other than to roleplay, I don't see any reason to choose to invest in Faith when Production, Influence and Science are just so more directly useful.
I still have to get used to your new look
I almost wish that they had a culture that faith was it's key feature and not just a bonus like how influence is. It could be that special ability to send missionaries to spread your faith. Idk why but faith and religion was always one of my favorite thing in civ
Yes but you could argue the best religion civs are food and production, I definetly think religion will be one of the first big dlc, hopefully with crusading units or cool combat mechanics when fighting other religions
@@renano95 Calling a crusading would be so dope if you had other ppl in following your religion and you could target a different one. Religion wars soo good
There need to be faith stars
can you do a vid on unlocking all civics?
I think faith is one of the weaker points of this game atm I wouldn’t mind a giant faiths overhaul dlc.
I quite like the faith system. I mostly build it up for some early stability but the bonuses you get on the way can be pretty nice. Using it for declaring war or building up war support seems like one of the best uses of it. I do feel like there can be done more with the face of the religion you build up. Maybe a different logo or a way to build a limited amount of religious buildings like a church or a mosque. Building up only stone rings feels kind of stupid in the medieval era.
After some time you get the option to change the religion's name to something like hinduism, christianity etc and each one changes the appearance of the holy sites to something more modern like a church
@@thealexguy1486 Oh. I did not know that it never happened to me even if I reach tier 4 tennets.
@@funpolepel apparently you get an option to do it every time you unlock a tenet from a drop down, haven't done it myself just reading the wiki
@@funpolepel When you unlock a tenet, and you pick one to select, before you confirm there is a dropdown on the right half of that window pop-up where you can rename and change the building for your holy sites. It's easy to miss.
I still don't understand what value religion has at all in this game unless it literally is just for the tier bonuses? I just played my first game and I saw that I had territorial dominance and then I didn't check for a long long time and then I noticed my religion had been wiped out but I noticed pretty much no consequence.
Yup, it’s the four tier bonuses - very similar to how religion works in Civ 5. You get rewarded for how you build a religion, and how wide it spreads.
I rather like religion just where it is. It's present but simple at the same time. It helps as an added aspect to the game without overshadowing everything else.
yeah I kind of agree, it's not bad top have it out of the road and religion is personally never a mechanic I'm overly excited about in a 4X
I also found religion to be a little underwhelming compared to civ. Hoping it gets a dlc at some point.
It should be free imo cuz it's still feels we are in late access.
Religion feels hollow. I also had no issues having it become the only religion in the world by the second era.
Having watched several videos, lots of people have commented on that. The problem is that there is currently no mechanic for generating internal religious division (e.g. sects, schisms, heresies). If they could spring up then spread if left unaddressed, it would add a whole new layer of unpredictability to the game.
I beg Amplitude never to bring those pesky missionaries and other nuisances that made me stop playing Civilization altogether. So, yeah, it’s a little bland right now and perhaps your idea of a leader of the faith is interesting. I like the spirit.
I reckon there needs to be more of reason to try and spread your faith for example if your faith is strong than someone another players and yours is becoming more dominant their stability in those city’s suffer more until your faith is completely adopted or if their ideologies are completely different to yours but your faith is more popular that’ll have an affect on their stability
Absolutely agree.
I want fame for crushing my neighbors religion, for being the biggest religion after a certain period. At least 1 fame per territory under my religion maybe???
I kinda wonder why there aren't faith cultures... there is a culture for everything except faith... why?
To be fair, some cultures do have special districts that produce faith. One could say those are "Faith cultures", but I see what you mean.
Note: Even on high pop builds, the +5 per territory is better, IMO.
I rocket to tier 4 by medevil playing traditionalists/high pop builds and then literally forget about it.
You can get some religion bonuses with say Stonehenge or Templars, but that's about it.
Are you sure the +1 faith per population is per overall population and not per population following your faith?
The first time i played i choose polytheism becoz i thought it will evolved into christianity etc... nope, im stuck with poly even in space...
I would LOVE if it was a tangible like thing, like FIMS, like Civ where you can buy something with faith! I'm just saying, that's because after your done with tenets you have no use for faith AFAIK. That's kind of why I think Russia and Ottomans can be better... by that time I am either done with my tenets OR well on my way so I don't need faith! In fact I don't WANT faith cuz that means I'm spreading my religion lol making my Teuton Knights weaker!
I'm hoping in an expansion or something they add one or two more levels of tenets.
Yeah, I agree it could actually probably use a bit of currency-ization!
I just started Humankind and am a bit disappointed by the religion. I do not see the point in investing in it.
Tenets bring you bonuses but you would also get bonuses by welcoming a foreigner religion.
Moreover, I do not see the interest in converting foreigner's empires to my religion. Isn't it just offering the bonuses due to my tenets?
This greatly impacts my understanding of cultures relying heavily on faith...
Does someone has an explanation?
Sorry, but this is really bugging me, the word is "tenet", not "tenant". Your religion only has tenants if is rents its temples out to people. Think the Christopher Nolan movie where half of it is backwards. No, the other Christopher Nolan movie where half of it is backwards.
No need to be sorry, it is spelt tenet. And yes, that’s a different word to tenant!
Cursed accent
@@JumboPixel As a fellow kiwi-accent-haver I understand the pain.
Thank you for these.
I think the game or ui doesnt do a good job at explaining it.
"Storykind"
LOL
Glad he left it in...
I had to 😅
population sucks. i've never been able to push out a polytheism or even defend against them when using shamanism.
What does atheism do
It basically just changes your state religion (abruptly). Your society will adopt it if your faith output is strong and you’ll get its benefits instead of simply the religion you had.
All religious units in Civ games were just pain in the ass. I rather Humankind's religion spreas but rules are just bland... not much impact.(Historically religion had important impact) Hopefuly there will be some patch like Civ 6 was given just like that. Knowing Amplitude Studios it will be rather very expensive DLC :/
'Ism' is the worst religion suffix IMHO. You should have called your religion 'Jumbology' or 'Jumbonomy'... or the actual religious practice: Mumbo Jumbo.
You are absolutely right! Where are you in livestream chat when I need ya! 😅
Religion is whats wrong with this world.
And incompetent politicians.
Unlike those wonderful atheists like Mao and Stalin and Pol Pot etc., right? *smh*