@@wolfsbanealphas617 given that in the wider setting of the old world of darkness, god gave up and went to greener pastures, cain can't repent even if he wanted to do so.
I always run Caine as a cab driver in NYC, who wants nothing to do with vampires. And is actually kind of a chill bro. He realized what he did a long time ago and kind of agrees with Jehova at this point, but Jehova isn't listening anymore, so even if Caine wanted to capitulate he can't. So he's just depressed and misses his brother...
Then you might like the Fair is Foul Scenario for Caine in Time of Judgment: Gehenna Back when the Withering was a thing, its implied the reason that happened is actually a conversation between Caine and Lucifer in LA in 2004. There Lucifer tells Caine he is suprised Caine still hasn't admitted he is wrong, and even takes Caine back to show that God didn't actually curse Caine, Caine cursed himself and God just enforced it (like he has done in the Bible). This leads to Caines arrogance and pride being broken, which starts the withering. Which then awakens the Antideluvians as they release they have no time left and have to act. Lilth then launches attacks of such magnitude and nature that Caine is forced to respond as no one else can (and do note, Caine sat out the Week of Nightmares (Which is why God ends up doing 40 nights of Gehenna in Wormwood) so thats a pretty high bar) Caine also can have an invisible ally (ST dependent thanks to being technically non Canon thanks to Wraith the Oblivion's lore) in the First Wraith Able, who can manifest in the middle of Caines throwdown with Lilth to forgive Caine. If Caine accepts his forgiveness, he instantly Transcends, which is considered the good ending by Saulot (The only Antideluvian Loyal to Caine and anywhere near tangentially associated with the term "halfway decent being" (as it turns out the Tremere were not entirely lying, Saulot is who OG White Wolf has canon pinned as the Antideluvian for the fucking *Baali* (Asher eat your heart out) and felt out of Golconda millenia ago so he is by no means "Good", just the best of a horrible sort that has goals that happen to end up with humanity in a good position) and what Saulot is pushing for the entire time if he is used.
Cain could conquer the whole world if he wanted to. I can only imagine going up against him. Like an anime god-tier villian, beyond omega-level character. But i never took time to realize that Lilith also would not have known the power of death and murder by the time she met Cain because he had been the only human in the world to have discovered that power at the time. Very fascinating to think about.
During Bible Class as a kid we had to explain to the whole class our favourite story. I took this one and said that God is either not All-knowing or he knew what Caine was about to do and let it happen.
As much as I love me some Toreador since they are my fave Clan, I suspect the story of the Lovers is an invention of their characteristic arrogance. Of course, all the Antediluvian stories and the origins of their respective childer are subject to much self-aggrandizement. Though I generally consider Toreador Elder Katherine of Montpellier, the most obvious modern source of this story, to be generally a reliable narrator, she is from the 2nd Millenium. Even her Sire, Theophano exists from barely in the B.C.E., still thousands of years removed. Maybe their Methulsalah progenitors gave them the low down. Who knows...?
I only knew vampire the masquerade by name until I stumbled on yt on some lore videos around it, i gotta admit yours are my favorites. Deep dive on the lore, very interesting, perfect tone of voice. It makes me want to investigate the trpg. Awesome videos man, kudos from an anonymous frenchy
Welcome to the Table! I don't know why but it is interesting to me how many people say that about my voice :p not just on UA-cam, people tell me throughout my daily life too.
@@TheMapleTable A friend and I are working on a reboot of Jonathan Livingston Seagull. If we actually get the project off the ground, a big if, how would you like to be one of the voice actors? ☺
The fragments focus on the first part of the book of nod in universe. Including the creation of Caine, and the eventually cursing of the Antediluvians.
Hey Maple Table, Really interesting video! I never knew about Cain or any of this. Thanks for making an informative video like this, keep up the great work!!
Ngl in my campaign I ran a somewhat off book version of the fall of London where the English camerilla were attempting to revive Caine from torpor in order to lead them in the fight against the second inquisition but the players finding out that as soon as they did this Caine would destroy all that was left of the London kainites, that was the grand twist I had planned, the the overall goal of the chronicle was for the players to figure out what was going on through clues sprinkled through, and eventual meeting with the devil, to fully explain what was going on in order for the players to grasp the weight and make the descion to stop the ceremony or to allow it to occur and perhaps barter with Caine And the whole idea then leading to if they stopped it the second chapter would lead to the fall of London chronicle and mabye them being sent back in time to the era of the first inquisition in order to learn more about them sadly due to COVID and people lossing interest we never actually got it to the point they met Caine shame really Also just saying this was my first ever game of VTM and being the game master for any sort of ttrpg
Underrated VTM content you have going here. I like that you have visuals to accompany your commentary but not too many that it disrupts the audio running in the background! I'll check out your other videos of the same VTM content too. Thank you, Nathaniel!
i just like the idea of cain wandering the world and mess with his vampire children with him having attained some enligtenment and not needing to feed no more he just wants to test his children to see who can overcome the beast but vampires be vampires and allways mess shite up
another thing to consider regarding caine's power and knowledge: he was ancient already long before he embraced his first childer. disciplines are a result of a cainite's understanding of and connection to their vampiric nature and caine has had almost immeasurable time to grow in this regard. there is also much more pronounced differences in strength and potential between the generations the lower you go. a 5th generation vampire is much more powerful than 6th and 4th is already approaching godlike. the antediluvians mastery of disciplines can't be quantified, and their sires probably didn't even have the same "flaws" we've come to associate with vampirism in general because their blood was hardly thinned at all. who can even begin to consider just the base stats of a first generation vampire, setting aside all of caine's experience as an individual?
Btw the Path of Blood in this case was likely a form of morality, the first alternative path of enlightenment. Many vampires reject humanity, and as such Paths are born.
The Path of Blood is written as the explanation for Blood Sorcery (Book of Nod.) He discovered the physical disciplines first and then some of the more esoteric ones like Protean, but the specific line says something like the Path of Blood from which all other powers are derived or something like that, which explains all the ones not specifically mentioned.
@@Blaque_Beard if that is the case I'll admit to be wrong. Considering Path is used in Blood Sorcery and as the Paths of enlightenment, the terminology might have confused me and I never got that misconception corrected.
Yeah, the path vs road thing is a little confusing, but The Path of Blood followed by the Banu Haquim was created by Haquim and then later corrupted by the Sabbat to create the Path of Caine. The Path of Blood as mentioned here is the first path of Thaumaturgy learned by all Tremere (and the only one available so far in v5)
Gawds curse really looks like a reward of sorts, enormous powers and shit lulz...and phucking over normal humies to the extreme, he cursed them with a plague of superhuman monsters that prey upon them x) Also he's actively allowing all his children to use his disciplines so idk if he has any phucks to give at this point about humanity, or has any remorse x). Also, you have a bit of a shark smile ^^
Great video! I heard from another video that the Crone may have been Adam’s second wife who m he rejected out if disgust at having seen her formation. Quick question: did the antediluvians diablerize the second generation ?
I mean, the bible straight up says that God preferred Able's offering, that the blood of the sacrifice was smelled sweet. I mean who wouldn't get jealous? Your God just told you that all your hard was was worthless in his eyes and favored your brother. Your wrong in that Caine didn't sacrifice his brother, he straight up slew him in a fit of rage. Also Caine didn't just sever ties with Lilith, he stabbed her in the back and killed her, then drank her blood.
Enoch was kaine's younger sibling Irad slept in the lost city that is in dirty secrets Zilliah also slept in that city also And the 3rd whose name is forgotten in time sleeps their also The book of nod is written by nudists Dark mother is written by The eurcies fragments was written by a Giovanni Kaine has not been seen or heard since judgment on the 2nd city What is ur clan of choice ? I say malk or nosferatu.....my clan of choice is ?
For more investigative research together see UBTV videos see Kurimeo Ahue videos see Thoughts Camera Action videos see Zion Dynasty videos see Aboriginal power videos see Dane Calloway videos open Diary videos pass on
Hmmmm CAIN ABEL=CANNIBAL Hmmmm Jesus said, ‘eat my flesh, DRINK my BLOOD & live forever (Vampire & Cannibal) Hmmm Eve dreamed Cain drank the blood of Abel Hmmmm Vampires have 2 souls. Adam had 2 souls when he was Androgynous; both Adam & Eve. Hmmm Vamoires are Androgynous. Hmmmm the Androgynous ones self-impregnate like Jesus’ mother Hmmm MITHRA was androgynous from Armenia. Hmmmm MITHRA ALSO said, ‘drink mu blood & live forever Hmmmm Armenia is close to TRANSYLVANIA where TRANS (both sexes/androgynous) vampires originate Hmmmm the Battle of the gods of Ragnarock is called, ‘Twilight’ Hmmm Jesus hated dogs (wolves): Matthew 15:26 Jesus told a woman he wouldn’t heal her daughter bc he doesn’t throw bread to DOGS (wolves). Hmmmm CAIN sounds like CANINE (dog) HMMMM dog reflects the mirror name of God Hmmmm Sirius B the DOG STAR is the BRIGHTEST STAR in the sky Hmmm I have seen immortal beings on the spirit realm. They have skin like an elephant & they have a cold heart or a heart of stone. They hate humans
You could say his greatest curse is seeing his children betray each other as he betrayed Able
That would also be pretty awful
@@TheMapleTable I think the reason refuses to repent because he does not want to admit what he did was wrong and wants God to admit it
@@wolfsbanealphas617 given that in the wider setting of the old world of darkness, god gave up and went to greener pastures, cain can't repent even if he wanted to do so.
@@BeefMeisterSupreme nah I see that as a test of faith God is all knowing and all seeing think of the story of job
@@wolfsbanealphas617 no really, in demon: the fallen, and the wider old word of darkness setting, God and the angels are flat out just gone.
I always run Caine as a cab driver in NYC, who wants nothing to do with vampires. And is actually kind of a chill bro. He realized what he did a long time ago and kind of agrees with Jehova at this point, but Jehova isn't listening anymore, so even if Caine wanted to capitulate he can't.
So he's just depressed and misses his brother...
This is beautiful lol
@@TheMapleTable Once I had him imply that Stan Lee got the "Great power" axiom from Caine when he picked Stan up in his cab...
Then you might like the Fair is Foul Scenario for Caine in Time of Judgment: Gehenna
Back when the Withering was a thing, its implied the reason that happened is actually a conversation between Caine and Lucifer in LA in 2004. There Lucifer tells Caine he is suprised Caine still hasn't admitted he is wrong, and even takes Caine back to show that God didn't actually curse Caine, Caine cursed himself and God just enforced it (like he has done in the Bible). This leads to Caines arrogance and pride being broken, which starts the withering.
Which then awakens the Antideluvians as they release they have no time left and have to act.
Lilth then launches attacks of such magnitude and nature that Caine is forced to respond as no one else can (and do note, Caine sat out the Week of Nightmares (Which is why God ends up doing 40 nights of Gehenna in Wormwood) so thats a pretty high bar)
Caine also can have an invisible ally (ST dependent thanks to being technically non Canon thanks to Wraith the Oblivion's lore) in the First Wraith Able, who can manifest in the middle of Caines throwdown with Lilth to forgive Caine. If Caine accepts his forgiveness, he instantly Transcends, which is considered the good ending by Saulot (The only Antideluvian Loyal to Caine and anywhere near tangentially associated with the term "halfway decent being" (as it turns out the Tremere were not entirely lying, Saulot is who OG White Wolf has canon pinned as the Antideluvian for the fucking *Baali* (Asher eat your heart out) and felt out of Golconda millenia ago so he is by no means "Good", just the best of a horrible sort that has goals that happen to end up with humanity in a good position) and what Saulot is pushing for the entire time if he is used.
Just like the cabbie from Bloodlines!
Cain could conquer the whole world if he wanted to. I can only imagine going up against him. Like an anime god-tier villian, beyond omega-level character. But i never took time to realize that Lilith also would not have known the power of death and murder by the time she met Cain because he had been the only human in the world to have discovered that power at the time. Very fascinating to think about.
Its interesting right?
During Bible Class as a kid we had to explain to the whole class our favourite story. I took this one and said that God is either not All-knowing or he knew what Caine was about to do and let it happen.
As much as I love me some Toreador since they are my fave Clan, I suspect the story of the Lovers is an invention of their characteristic arrogance. Of course, all the Antediluvian stories and the origins of their respective childer are subject to much self-aggrandizement. Though I generally consider Toreador Elder Katherine of Montpellier, the most obvious modern source of this story, to be generally a reliable narrator, she is from the 2nd Millenium. Even her Sire, Theophano exists from barely in the B.C.E., still thousands of years removed. Maybe their Methulsalah progenitors gave them the low down. Who knows...?
Its a good theory
8:00 This is why Caine commanded never to embrace for Love.
Makes sense
I only knew vampire the masquerade by name until I stumbled on yt on some lore videos around it, i gotta admit yours are my favorites. Deep dive on the lore, very interesting, perfect tone of voice. It makes me want to investigate the trpg. Awesome videos man, kudos from an anonymous frenchy
Welcome to the Table!
I don't know why but it is interesting to me how many people say that about my voice :p not just on UA-cam, people tell me throughout my daily life too.
@@TheMapleTable You should have become a professional voice actor.
@JohnGrigg-gz9gm the thought crossed my mind. I enjoy acting, it fills my soul. So does singing.
@@TheMapleTable A friend and I are working on a reboot of Jonathan Livingston Seagull. If we actually get the project off the ground, a big if, how would you like to be one of the voice actors? ☺
The fragments focus on the first part of the book of nod in universe. Including the creation of Caine, and the eventually cursing of the Antediluvians.
Hey Maple Table, Really interesting video! I never knew about Cain or any of this. Thanks for making an informative video like this, keep up the great work!!
Thanks!
Ngl in my campaign I ran a somewhat off book version of the fall of London where the English camerilla were attempting to revive Caine from torpor in order to lead them in the fight against the second inquisition but the players finding out that as soon as they did this Caine would destroy all that was left of the London kainites, that was the grand twist I had planned, the the overall goal of the chronicle was for the players to figure out what was going on through clues sprinkled through, and eventual meeting with the devil, to fully explain what was going on in order for the players to grasp the weight and make the descion to stop the ceremony or to allow it to occur and perhaps barter with Caine
And the whole idea then leading to if they stopped it the second chapter would lead to the fall of London chronicle and mabye them being sent back in time to the era of the first inquisition in order to learn more about them sadly due to COVID and people lossing interest we never actually got it to the point they met Caine shame really
Also just saying this was my first ever game of VTM and being the game master for any sort of ttrpg
Underrated VTM content you have going here. I like that you have visuals to accompany your commentary but not too many that it disrupts the audio running in the background! I'll check out your other videos of the same VTM content too. Thank you, Nathaniel!
Glad you enjoyed it!
i just like the idea of cain wandering the world and mess with his vampire children with him having attained some enligtenment and not needing to feed no more he just wants to test his children to see who can overcome the beast but vampires be vampires and allways mess shite up
Omg No Wonder!! I always had questions doubts and thoughts about this thanks so much for confirmation!!!
another thing to consider regarding caine's power and knowledge: he was ancient already long before he embraced his first childer. disciplines are a result of a cainite's understanding of and connection to their vampiric nature and caine has had almost immeasurable time to grow in this regard. there is also much more pronounced differences in strength and potential between the generations the lower you go. a 5th generation vampire is much more powerful than 6th and 4th is already approaching godlike. the antediluvians mastery of disciplines can't be quantified, and their sires probably didn't even have the same "flaws" we've come to associate with vampirism in general because their blood was hardly thinned at all. who can even begin to consider just the base stats of a first generation vampire, setting aside all of caine's experience as an individual?
Btw the Path of Blood in this case was likely a form of morality, the first alternative path of enlightenment. Many vampires reject humanity, and as such Paths are born.
The Path of Blood is written as the explanation for Blood Sorcery (Book of Nod.) He discovered the physical disciplines first and then some of the more esoteric ones like Protean, but the specific line says something like the Path of Blood from which all other powers are derived or something like that, which explains all the ones not specifically mentioned.
@@Blaque_Beard if that is the case I'll admit to be wrong. Considering Path is used in Blood Sorcery and as the Paths of enlightenment, the terminology might have confused me and I never got that misconception corrected.
Yeah, the path vs road thing is a little confusing, but The Path of Blood followed by the Banu Haquim was created by Haquim and then later corrupted by the Sabbat to create the Path of Caine.
The Path of Blood as mentioned here is the first path of Thaumaturgy learned by all Tremere (and the only one available so far in v5)
Great content and beautifully presented thanks for the upload Melbourne Australia
Glad you enjoyed it
Gawds curse really looks like a reward of sorts, enormous powers and shit lulz...and phucking over normal humies to the extreme, he cursed them with a plague of superhuman monsters that prey upon them x) Also he's actively allowing all his children to use his disciplines so idk if he has any phucks to give at this point about humanity, or has any remorse x). Also, you have a bit of a shark smile ^^
Great video! I heard from another video that the Crone may have been Adam’s second wife who m he rejected out if disgust at having seen her formation. Quick question: did the antediluvians diablerize the second generation ?
I mean, the bible straight up says that God preferred Able's offering, that the blood of the sacrifice was smelled sweet. I mean who wouldn't get jealous? Your God just told you that all your hard was was worthless in his eyes and favored your brother. Your wrong in that Caine didn't sacrifice his brother, he straight up slew him in a fit of rage.
Also Caine didn't just sever ties with Lilith, he stabbed her in the back and killed her, then drank her blood.
Finaly one that will deliver tryth
What if Caine is actually 2nd generation and the original is actually just laughing at his great grandchilde
Cain is cursed with horns!
I saw him in LA driving a taxi…
Enoch was kaine's younger sibling
Irad slept in the lost city that is in dirty secrets
Zilliah also slept in that city also
And the 3rd whose name is forgotten in time sleeps their also
The book of nod is written by nudists
Dark mother is written by
The eurcies fragments was written by a Giovanni
Kaine has not been seen or heard since judgment on the 2nd city
What is ur clan of choice ? I say malk or nosferatu.....my clan of choice is ?
I get the feeling Caine would be alot like Lord Beerus from Dragon Ball Super 😂
Truth
For more investigative research together see UBTV videos see Kurimeo Ahue videos see Thoughts Camera Action videos see Zion Dynasty videos see Aboriginal power videos see Dane Calloway videos open Diary videos pass on
Wrong Lilith doesn’t nor did she ever exist
wrong
This video is discussing the lore of the ttrpg Vampire: The Masquerade, not actual Bible lore
Lore. LOOOORRREEEE. Omnonom.
All the lore
Hmmmm CAIN ABEL=CANNIBAL Hmmmm Jesus said, ‘eat my flesh, DRINK my BLOOD & live forever (Vampire & Cannibal) Hmmm Eve dreamed Cain drank the blood of Abel Hmmmm Vampires have 2 souls. Adam had 2 souls when he was Androgynous; both Adam & Eve. Hmmm Vamoires are Androgynous. Hmmmm the Androgynous ones self-impregnate like Jesus’ mother Hmmm MITHRA was androgynous from Armenia. Hmmmm MITHRA ALSO said, ‘drink mu blood & live forever Hmmmm Armenia is close to TRANSYLVANIA where TRANS (both sexes/androgynous) vampires originate Hmmmm the Battle of the gods of Ragnarock is called, ‘Twilight’ Hmmm Jesus hated dogs (wolves): Matthew 15:26 Jesus told a woman he wouldn’t heal her daughter bc he doesn’t throw bread to DOGS (wolves). Hmmmm CAIN sounds like CANINE (dog) HMMMM dog reflects the mirror name of God Hmmmm Sirius B the DOG STAR is the BRIGHTEST STAR in the sky Hmmm I have seen immortal beings on the spirit realm. They have skin like an elephant & they have a cold heart or a heart of stone. They hate humans