Porsche Cayman vs Porsche Cayman - Fifth Gear
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2014
- It may seem odd to have a head-to-head with the same car, but one Porsche has a manual gearbox and the other has a semi-auto gearbox. Marcus Grönholm joins Jason to find out which is best.
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All this video proved is people who like manual with buy manual, and people who like automatics (anything with a "Drive" setting) will buy automatics.
Well said.
or those who like manual but are forced by the constraints of their body that they need automatic
Or people who think they are oh so sporty, (everyone over here in europe can drive "stick", it's nothing special) and people who actually track their car and know how awesomely amazing and how infinitely better the PDK is.
@Seized Cheese: u so funny. I fell asleep behind the wheel of a Cayman with PDK. PDK is just another word for spicing up a boring automatic.
mrpmj00 I disagree with you. I too have always driven manual. Love the interaction. But the PDK... it doesn't miss a shift. It changes perfectly. Most people driving the PDK will have better track times. then the manual.
I just ADORE the Cayman. Utterly gorgeous lines. Great to see the two gearboxes are so close to each other in outright performance.
That didn't prove the manual was faster on a track, all it proved was Markus hit the breaks too early letting Jason pass him.
He let him by...a race driver would NEVER leave that much room in a corner!
@@keithcannon3682 The random swearing was so hilarious haha.
Who cares about tenths of a second. Unless you are in an actual race it is irrelevant.
Manual requires skill and practice and dedication to get your heeltoes just right when entering a corner.
So much more fun and satisfyingly and waaaay more connected to the machine.
"So much more fun and satisfyingly and waaaay more connected to the machine. "
That completely depends on driver preference.
ive driven a manual all my life, and prefer them. its really not so difficult lol. dont act like its some incredibly difficult skill that only a few people in this world will ever learn how to do haha
If you want a car that connects with its driver then you need an Alfa Romeo 4c. It's the only modern car with no power assist steering! And when it comes to driving steering feel is everything. Unlike those god awful electric steering.
***** But one day cars become so fast your shifting skill will be totally irrelevant. Well even nowadays we have these cars like the porsche 918, laFerrari, Mclaren P1, ... Manual shifting would destroy the performance of the car.
DoctorKongo When you get really high performance, very fast revving engines that cost a lot of money. People like Porsche wont want people trying to heal and toe their GT3 and over revving the engines on up and down shifts. The cars are so fast that it throws you around and the revs climb so fast that some people could manage it but a lot will be bouncing off rev limiters. I think with the really fast cars now, people moan about no manuals but the same people couldn't handle the power and fast rev
over a lap with a car in the way... time them running the lap separately. ridiculous comparison.
+Matt Bennett Absolutely, well said.
Yes...timed flying start laps with same driver.
Not a driver trying to prove the manual is superior.
Sad to se a racecar driver bag on the superior transmission because of his personal preference. On the street the pdk will always be faster. On the track...all things equal...the pdk will always be faster.
If you like a manual (which I do) then buy a manual. Don't lie and say it is superior.
I am planning a first gen Cayman build using the PDK and K24 turbo swap.
It will easily destroy either of these cars.
Honda K24 may be the best 4 cylinder ever designed!
Totally agree mate
Um…. They are making for Television! Take it easy.
Most Cayman drivers in UK will spend their time driving round the likes of Surbiton with big rev-jumps down to 2nd or even 1st for sharp corners, or crawling along in stop-go traffic on the M25 car park. Which gearbox wins then, I wonder? Does the odd trip to a track, or to the Highlands or Alps really justify choosing the manual? Serious question.
whatever you prefer is the only answer tbh.
You mean in London? There’s plenty of nice roads outside of the M25, hence why I’ve got the manual
@@drewwalton5973 Yes, I've since driven both, and the manual is almost like using an electrical switch anyway - so easy. So manual for sure - unless you intend to commute every day around the M25 to inside it.
@@AntonHu the auto is faster and more economical, and the clutch wears out, some have had the clutch replaced 60k, the auto should last the life time of the car.
In the race, the better driver won not the better gearbox. Gronholm is a rally driver while Plato is a race track driver.
Exactly. I was going to say that they need another race track driver - one on par with Plato -- to make a proper comparison, and the cars should be exactly identical [save for the transmission], wheel sizes, tires, etc.
Gronholm is a much more decorated driver
@@drj2039 on a rally track... not on tarmac race track
@@den_525 wrc > btcc
@@drj2039 it's not about which discipline is better LOL rally and track racing are completely different!!! Raikkonen f1 world champion tried rallying and he was shit... no one from rally have ever made it to f1... it's like comparing apples with oranges.
I'd take the manual in a heartbeat even though the PDK shifts faster
Mohammed Aldaqqaq manual is better for a driving experience
I know I'm pretty randomly asking but do anyone know a good website to watch newly released movies online ?
@@joelricky5277 putlocker
still want the manual... sorry.. I don't care PDK is faster but I drive for the feeling and not for lap times. :)
learn how to spell.
Grayson Slusher Learn*
The advantage point for the one with manual gear box has 20 inch wheels, which can make a factor for getting better lap time. I like 20 inch wheels even on 2.7L
1:41 Somebody forgot a grammar check: Porsche Doppelkupplungsgetriebe and not Porsche DoppelkuRpplungsgetriebe
Many american/english car Magazines write porshe instead of Porsche. :'(
***** Damn, you are correct. Should have been grammar... Typo, and it has been corrected.
Lion Wittig
Nah they don't. They are kinda ignorant but not that bad, come on?!
+Lachmund I like top gear, fifth gear and so in (love those british magazines) :D
No it should be Porsche Doppelkupfdfderkerjkejereledfgdrawsefsplungsgetriebe.
I love the idea for such a head to head. But the different rims and tires ruins it by a large bit
Yes..not a test of equal cars! Tires may be the biggest factor to the time on a track!
I'll take the manual. After all it is a sports car. I feel the automatic takes the soul out of it, even though they call it a "double clutch"
i would still take manual over PDK. it is quicker yes, it is more advanced yes. but it all about pure driving feel and involvement between a car and a driver. i just hope manual gear box never go away completely.
+LeeROBD Unfortunately manuals will disappear as will petrol engines and we will be left with electric cars and the only fun left for a man is sex and that will also disappear with time. It's all doom and gloom.
+oppanheimer LOL
what do you mean" will never go away completely"? The manual is long dead nobody has a manual anymore.
+Cbreezy People still drive plenty of manuals in Europe
CTStyles31 oh, I didn't know that.
That was fun! A bit of humour goes a long way...
what size rims would one run on a Cayman? assuming 2-3 track days a month...
For me the choice is : manual in a sportscar and automatic in a fast saloon car.
Agreed.
For me it's manual in a sports car, manual in a fast saloon car and automatic in someone else's car.
If this was supposed to be a comparison, why didn't they switch cars? Why did one car have 19" wheels and the other 20"? Oh, I guess this is about just entertainment and not actual numbers.
Bingo. We have a winner.
jench78 actually you are kind of right the size of the rim does not matter as both have the same rolling circumference, the biggest difference is in the 2 different brands on the cars.
@@j.a.citadel3258 Rim? They weren't 3 piece wheels. It's doubtful the wheel and tyre combos had identical weight and rotating mass.
@@DepakoteMeister can you please explain what it is you are trying to call me out on because if you are unsure of what I meant by rim is confusing the situation I don't think we need to have a conversation. 🤔
@@j.a.citadel3258 OK, I'm guessing by that response that English isn't your first language?
When picking out our 911, we went back and forth on manual vs. PDK. Driving the PDK felt boring to us. Like the specialness of the car was gone.
Great programme
lol! the Porsche Cayman wins!!!
haha suck that Porsche Cayman fanboys! you just got owned!
Beautiful =D
Good Year Eagle for the PDK and Pirelli tyres for the manual.. and I think a size bigger. Why not the exact same....?
In Top Gear, they usually make sure the guest on the show wins any race. It's the gentlemanly thing to do.
Such an entertaining episode
Can’t do a touge style race on an open track like that. Also that looked like one lap not two. Gotta love the editing
Pity you didn't involve the aircraft in the background. It is a Comet/Nimrod. I spent time in these!! Chasing submarines, coast watch, naval warfare, etc.
As a coincidence, I now have a GT Silver GT4.
Somehow the white on of them just look so much better
Easy way to settle this, have one of each! Drive PDK weekdays to work, drive manual on weekends!
0:39 haha pause for Jason the ultimate car salesman =)
Anyone know what kind of watch Jason is wearing?
Cleaning your car manually won't be faster than any drive-thru car wash. But somehow, you will become better at cleaning your car. Hope this makes sense.
I ALWAYS have my phone and/or coffee/beer in one hand so the auto is a must!
What year are these caymans? 2009?
I work at a Porsche certified collision center... The PDK is faster and I believe it's more fun. The way it shifts is fantastic. I was 100% for manuals before i drove Porsche's with the PDK, Audi's with DSG... etc. They're no competition. I'd have the PDK all day every day.
If the PDK had won, I would still get the manual. Been driving manual for 45 years and I'll get an auto when I physically can't drive manual. Then of course I probably shouldn't drive at all. I've got some years yet.
I love drive to Manual,just for the fact that I handle the Clutch.
Slowing down on Clutch and Motor.
Instead of Breaking...
Also be able to feel ur Revs on the Gearstick...
I guess im Old Skool.
I remember back in the Days,my 70CC Kreidler Motorbike Clutch Plates were suddenly totally gone/waisted .
I still managed to get the Bike up to 75Km/h with a passenger while driving home.
So ,Yeah I am a Clutch Fan(atic).
On the secondary market no one wants to by Porsche without manual gear box. Buying any Porsche with anything resembling automatic for the rear wheels - is a bad investment.
What absolute nonsense! You clearly own a manual and are trying to talk it up. I know for a fact that PDKs (especially with Chrono/launch control) are far, far more in demand than manuals and command a much higher price on the second hand market. Anyone who wants that confirmed just needs to pay a visit to a Porsche dealer!!
This applies to the old tiptronic
very few customers will choose the manual, and that's unfortunately for us in 15 years when we can afford these cars
Fool 15 yrs. I hope we are done with combustion motors. No More Transmissions, No fucking GEARS. Just a BADASS ELECTRIC MOTOR. Straight TORQUE to the GROUND!!!
grounded to the ground?
Enjoy!
Electric cars are the future of main stream car transport but they will more than likely be driver-less.
For gear heads petrol will still be in use but will require specialist suppliers.
that's not actually true. more customers will buy pdk true, but not as many as you think. at least with the bmw m3, 40% of customers bought manual gearboxes.
sultanabran1 Porsche sells 5% manuals. Very easy to see if you check the pre-owned market. Last week, a Porsche dealer told me he thinks they only sell 2%... either way, certainly not 40%.
PDK is basically Porsche's Volkswagen DSG. I don't mind having PDK on a 911 Turbo/Turbo S, but on the Cayman/Boxster? No, not even a chance.
Double clutch gives you seamless shifts and quicker acceleration but doesn't give the exact amount of engine braking you need.
i wish he had reviewed the aircraft in the background, looks awesome.
+Khaled Ghouti Not sure it's a real aircraft. Just a prop for movies.
It's a nimrod, British design and built military aircraft built from the late 60s. When Britain made aswome aircraft.
military.wikia.org/wiki/Hawker_Siddeley_Nimrod
Advantage for PDK, Stronic or dual clutch is no worries with others driving your car. They can just keep it in drive or sport. With a manual you worry about others screwing up your clutch. I have a DSG GTI with 245,000 km on it and it drives like it did when new. Anyway.....
I have an RS5 and I do not just allow anybody to drive it. My daughter is free to drive it but not my wife and she knows this and respects this.
I have close friends and they can drive it and I can drive their car. Because trust has been built up (earned) but their is always the chance that some body with less skill could burn out a clutch or wreck the transmission.
"I must win him!"
If you wanted more accurate results you should have used cars with the same wheels and both people should drive both cars because of the difference in their skills.
The host doesn't want to do that. He doesn't want fair or balanced. He prefers the manual and he wants the manual to be superior. It is not. It is a great manual...I had a 2006 Cayman S 6 speed manual...great car. Pdk is faster...it just is. It is faster in any situation.
The test you propose would show the pdk to be superior.
This is why I don't like this show.
It is disingenous!
Top Gear...now that was a great show!
In cities, the PDK makes too much sense, it's the ultimate weapon at the traffic lights, mwhahahaa
Who buys a real sports car with red lights in mind?
@@factsnotfeelings4901 Good point, haha.
i know the pdk is faster, but manual every time.
This test should have used the Cayman S. Not so many people buy the standard Cayman.
Not many people buy a standard base Cayman? Where did you get your research or is it simply an opinion? I bought one, and many members of the PCA have the standard base.
At the end of the day it's all opinion as to which one is "better". People are going to buy the one that they like more despite how it performs. I like the pdk system so that's the one I'd get even if it ended up being slower on paper and/or on the track. Luck for me, they're pretty even so its not a sacrifice to go with the one I like.
Are the rims and tires different??
Not just the rim, the whole ally wheel is different, spokes and all!
I fkin dig Plato's style of reviews!
i read "dig potatoes" caus of ur avatar thing haha
The Cayman, when equipped with a turbo will destroy a 911. It's a shame that no one builds a reasonably priced kit. I should make one.
TheCmoney84 have u made it yet???? how much??
That guy ever keep his hands on the wheel or eyes down road. Jesus. Can only imagine how drives on the road ways. Cell phone, food in hand , knee steering all the way to the quicky mart...
Good luck finding a manual.
There is one thing to think about, and that is the reporting ability of the engine computer. It registers the amount of time the engine has seen at full throttle and it also counts the number of times the car has been over-revved. And the buyer of a used Cayman manual with any knowledge is going to take the car to the dealer and get a complete readout on how the car has been driven. The PDK? It has this computer too, but it NEVER exceeds the redline, thus making the car more valuable down the road. Truth be told, while the manual gives you more involvement, the PDK is still faster, the track session in this video is bullshit.
Yep. They made it all about racing. You can build these cars for your own racing team. I just don't know why sell to the general public the cars which 95% of people drive daily, some drive fast often, but still don't take it to the race track. It's not even as much about speed as it's about 0-60. And who races at a stop light on a regular basis other than some immature ponks. I'm not that qualified to talk about cars, but have a good guess that a true car fanatic would much more appreciate a manual, naturally aspirated, RWD like a DBS lets say vs an automatic, turbocharged, AWD like a GT-R - as much as people say it's one of the best cars ever made, and I'm sure it is, I'm purely speaking for the thrill of being in control of your machine, hearing the loud V8 or V10 or in this case a V12, purr, and drift that beast around the corner, VS a car so computerized that it basically drives itself and gets a better 0-60. Again I'm not too qualified to speak on the subject, nor am I speaking on behalf of others. Just saying it's a shame that the whole industry is revolving with 0 regard for the voice of the driver, just with a personal racing lap agenta.
why compare one on 19 and the other on 20 inch wheels???
Name of the plane? Xd
Manual is WAY better, I don't know why countries like the USA many people prefer to drive PDK.....I'd rather drive a manual car. You don't need skills to drive a manual, 52% of the cars in the world are manual. Let's keep it that way.
well honestly, manual vs. auto. is just a matter of what is more convenient for you
Ok
Afeeq Hasan Because the PDK is the best transmission in the world.
***** I live in America, and you sir... Are absolutely correct!.. In fact, it's even worse than you think. Everywhere I look there are massive blobs rolling around on little scooters. Even most young people these days are troublingly rotund.
It's getting to be such a problem, that there is even a "fat acceptance" thing going on, like fat is the new normal.. Even worse, people who are actually physically fit are "thin shamed". Some fatties even act like THEY'RE the ones with the problem!! Like people who are fit must be exceedingly vain or anorexic or something! It really is bad over here : (
I agree. I'm American and own a 04 GTO M6. A manual is WAY more fun to drive...which is why I bought a muscle car in the first place. Auto or I call it Stomp & Steer is for kids who's daddy's never taught them to drive stick.
Finn to Winn!
Do you know that 19 inch rims vs 20 inch rims make a difference in acceleration too? The gap in the drag race might be smaller if both cars had 20 inch rims
Depends on the tires too, and weight of the driver, and who is on what part of the track, and who has the worst wind direction to go up against and so on.
Well I don't consider the wind direction and the physical parameters since it is a drag race and i consider them equal for both when being side to side. As for the driver's weight it always matters. The thing I am saying though is that they don't really compare the difference the PDK makes, since the PDK equipped car except from the PDK has also smaller diameter wheels which from my own experience with identical cars and different sized wheels at those big sizes (18-20) makes a real difference in 0-100 acceleration. So probably the gap would be smaller. Although the 20 inch wheels might come with stickier rubber so my theory might be busted :P
n00b1n4t0r well the tire on the smaller wheel is larger to compensate is what i was meaning really so they're probably about equal in a straight line race but handling would be affected on any corner obviously.
Flea from the Red Hot Chili Peppers driving the PDK version?
For everyday driving, especially in London, PDK is the choice.
PDK any day!!!
almost every supercar uses a dual clutch now. yes manuals are funner to drive and easier to maintain but there evolution has really reached its peak. besides maybe fly by wire clutch pedal which ive never seen or heard of. anyone heard of that
f1 cars have hand operated fly by wire clutches for over a decade. in a production car though? i don't know of any.
Dual clutch gearbox is problematic. The clutch has a tendency to burn out and if a gear gets jammed you're left on your own. It's still in it's infancy and have a long way to go to be an adequate replacement.
yes advertising, I will put up a video or slideshow each Thursday,Sunday and Tuesday check it out each week for 3 new videos if you don't want to hey its your choice.
Gronholm kicks ass.
Plato knows the track already so thats to his advantage. Stick him in the SEMI-AUTO I bet he would still win that race around rthe track..ooohh yeeaahh
I like this guy. He is fun
A sportscar for the road is about driver involvement, hence the answer will always be MANUAL.
Manuals are fun but I can see why car manufacturers are moving away from manual and into semi automatics. It's because acceleration keeps getting quicker but human reaction remains constant so if you're accelerating, one hand needs to be off of the wheel to move the shifter and one foot pressing the clutch. This creates more of a split second distraction and would increase the chances for an accident, hence the lawsuits. With semis you don't need to worry about the clutch and you can keep BOTH hands on the wheel so there's more concentration on the road. So the semis are meant for safety.
As long as they keep making both transmissions I don't care which one is faster in a drag race.
The bigger wheels on the manual car contributes to the slower acceleration.
Good
Pdk/sports or plus mode wins on any track races..
Amazing cars, pretty funny how you have to pay $185 for colored porsche crests though
PDK is amazing and way better than manual. It has lightning fast changes that need to be experienced to be believed.
But if you want, the auto function can be overridden and it's great fun flipping the paddles, if you want to take manual control.
Also PDK is available with Chrono/launch control for ultra fast acceleration times - Boxster S/CaymanS are faster than the M3 when they have PDK/chrono/launch.
I'd take either
He only got the PDK and lost because you can tell plato is so much better on tarmac, if he had had the manual if would have been a bloodbath
Doppelkupplungsgetriebe is Love, Doppelkupplungsgetriebe is Life
drift challenge?
Are you guys daft? You put the rally-car driver that's been race-shifting manual his whole life into the PDK car, and the old useless bloke in the stick shifter? You realize you gave the manual absolutely no chance? It would have at least been close if you hadn't mucked it up.
Artyom Timiryazevskaya I think you need to do a bit of research as to who that "old useless bloke" is...
The racer looks like he sniffs glue
5.6 secs? How'd you feel when a Golf R flies by?
True. VW owns Porsche, literally, since 2012.
Steve Gould Oh, did you see the cayman S flyby? Or the cayman gt4? or the cayman GTS? :))) golf R is nothing compared to these 3 cars.. especially on a track ;D
Steve Gould Whats funny is Porsche Holdings LLC owns about 50% of VW shares, they created one of the greatest bait and switch moves in financial history.
Nathan R And still they can't manage to be nr1 financial company in auto :D Germans don't care I guess if they make 500 billion or 600 billion, it's still too much :D
Deba Nker I was talking about this car, not listing a bunch of others. Of course it doesn't compare, it's MUCH less than half the price.
wish they had swopped cars then run the test again, to eliminate driver error etc
even plato is very good proffesional driver a two times wrc champion wins either on the pdk or mt if he takes it serious
I haven't even watched the video yet… but they are equipped with 2 completely different tires Pirelli Pzero's and crap Eagle F1's common!!
"Porsche Doppelkupplung", not "Doppelkurpplung"
MotorScotti stfu nerd
By the way..the rally driving chap let him by...honestly...it is obvious to anyone with eyes!
I didnt see this guy switch gears not even once in the drag race in the manual transmission. All I saw him doing was yelling like a little girl and looking at the other driver.
wtf why is there a military De Haviland comet behind you?
+upuu because its a top gear ripoff
They should have done the real world test as well,sitting in traffic.
I know which one wins there. I probably spend 3 minutes a month pasting mine and 12 hrs sitting in traffic where a auto wins hands down.
Câmbio manual é muito mais divertido.
i much prefer the 1km to the 1/4 mile
I own an Audi TT - Mk2. I think the Porsche Cayman will be on my shopping list relatively soon, even if the Audi is just a tad more powerful.
Porsche is just too sexy of a car and sounds better.
However, I would wish to see a Porsche Cayman Vs. an Audi TT. (Not TTRS)
Had the two cars been fitted with the same wheels and tires and the drivers switched cars for comparison, the circuit test might have been a closer race. The extra 30kg weight for the PDK does make a slight difference. I assume both cars had an equal fuel load? Sorry guys but the cat and mouse play was too obvious. Lap times with data providing corner entry / exit speeds with top speed on the fastest straight would have been more satisfying. The gear ratios of the manual car may have suited this circuit better. Not one of my favorite episodes. None-the-less I do like Fifth Gear.
It was not suppose to be a data driven race.
It was a simple comparison that show that automatics for the average road user has caught up with manuals. If these were race standard cars they would be completely stripped out and have roll cages and other optimizations.
There are so many variables in this such as wind speed and other issues such as traction as you have pointed out.
Yes bighands69, automatics have caught up with manuals and in most cases outperform manuals in a straight line as demonstrated by Porsche factory performance figures and the drag race on this clip. My point was the circuit race could have been more interesting and realistic with the suggestions I made. I am not sure why you refer to race standard cars or race prepared cars to be more exact. I know this test was relative to standard production road cars. I hold an International C Race License and have engineering experience. Regardless, either car provides a great driving experience. Take your pick! I will take the stick!
Ceddings ohjhn) lp] t t 6yuyý+Miami Paul and a 2i97 y m. N
If I simply wanted to go fast, I would buy a fast car with paddle shifters and pay a pro driver to drive me around.
I want fun cars. That's why I want a stick shift convertible.
That didn't settle anything.
Well, I think the average person will race from red light to red light lol
2:27 lool ;)
39000?The price is so cheap. In China, the basic price is more than US115,000. Is it crazy?
That's because of a different currency. It's actually much cheaper in China.
Bitch Please, do you even Bangladesh? a whopping 300% tax on new cars!
The Manual car has, lower profile tires