You presented this very well. I am a very great devotee of St. Thomas More. I can't even imagine the courage that he had. I'm sure that I would fall short if I were ever presented with such a dilemma. He not only lost his life but the fortunes of his beloved family as well.
You speak of courage. Courage and holiness is what Thomas More wrote about from the tower of London as he witnessed the executions of the Carthusian Monks of Charter House London. Those attributtes he applied to them. John Fisher was Thomas More’s equal in intellect. He had been Chancellor of Cambridge , and had survived a poisoning attempt. He did not garner the prestige of Thomas. Therefore he preceded him in death by a few days. He was succeeded in office by the very same man who orchestrated his death, Thomas Cromwell.
My first overseas trip was to Europe in 1989. I am Australian and I went overseas for 6 months. I love English history, and particularly the Tudors. So I was so excited to see all these places I had read about. On my first weekend in Britain, a friend and I went to Canterbury. St Dunstans was just opposite the B and B in which we stayed. It also one of the very sights I saw In Britain. I hadn’t had much luck with seeing churches in the first week or so. I tried to visit Westminster Abbey, in part to see the tombs of Elizabeth I and Mary QOS, the day after I arrived. But it was closed for an event that the Queen Mum was attending. We then went to Canterbury. Next morning we were planning on going to the Cathedral. But who should we see being driven in the street to the Cathedral- the Queen Mum. So Canterbury Cathedral was closed that morning as well. So I was very excited when I decided to look in the church opposite the B and B to find the Tudor connection.
Very interesting! IF this is the real skull of Sir TM that speaks volumes of his character, and of his family, that they would take so care of his remains. He sure had the moral victory.
Thank you, Allan, for the fascinating installment on St Thomas More. I have long been one of his admirers and yet you have turned up other facets of his life I did not know. Well done.
Allan, you are correct that More was a polymath and polyglot. Utopia in Greek means no place. One can readily make inferences to St. Augustine’s “City of God.”
yet another fabulous and fascinating tale from Allan Barton. I just love your content! And your mellifluous tones. :) It's so amazing that she managed to rescue his head at all. Kind of reminds me of Game of Thrones' Ned, King of the North. I feel quite sad that they did in More. He was a beautiful man. And his ethics were so strong. What a shame!
Dreadful to think the fate that befell him, leading up to and after his death. All those years of service really meant nothing. I’ve had a few bosses like that, though thankfully sans beheading! Hope you’re well Father Allan
👩🏻💻Very, very interesting. I adore and revere Sir Thomas Moore. I was about 12 years old when I first saw the movie, "A Man for All Seasons," in our local show house. Even then I knew this man was honorable and true to his wife and family and most of all, true his God, his beliefs; that really impressed me. Growing up in the 60's really tried the souls of men, I had to ferret out my thoughts and feelings in such a turbulent time, just like it is today, a turbulent and topsy turvy world. Sir Thomas Moore gave me the courage to live up to my own physical and spiritual ideals. Now I am off to watch the movie.🙋♀️🇺🇲🇬🇧🇺🇦
Excellent use of Holbein's portrait of More. I'm one of the fortunate ones to have admired on many occasions this nearly photographic painting held at The Frick Collection in New York City. Gaze upon More's mantle collar and it's easy to imagine running one's hand through the soft and luxuriant texture of the fur. Another superlative video.
I think it is a good example of Henry’s hypocrisy and blame shifting to have blamed Anne Boleyn for More’s death. He could have saved More if he wanted.
I don't have a deal of sympathy for her I'm afraid when she press-ganged her uncle, father and brother to sit in judgement on More. She was certainly pressing for his death as his denial of the marriage was a denial of her status.
The king's good servant but Christ's first. Interesting to note that King Henry VIII blamed Anne Boleyn for his death in regard to her stating that "This is long of you, the honestest man of my kingdom is dead." Let's remember the lessons of history... honesty and integrity must prevail.
They might think twice about putting themselves forward as an MP without being either honest or fully committed to pull their weight. And no second fiddling jobs.
Thomas’ father must have been smack dab in the middle of the Wars of the Roses...He must have had the chance to have seen Henry VI & Margaret, Richard Duke of York, Richard Neville, Somerset, The Brothers York....I wonder what side he fell on...
It’s ironic that Margaret More Roper could’ve easily translated the Vulgate Bible into English, but nobody was around to task her with it after Henry and Elizabeth started sentencing Catholics to death.
I’m always amazed at the extreme dislike history has had towards Richard III, yet Henry VIII was the most vile man I’ve ever heard of, a cruel true narcissist who had no qualms about falsely accusing & disposing of anyone who stood in his way or even just dared to disagree with him.
I believe there’s an anecdote when More is about to be executed he ask the executioner a small pause so he can fix his beard so as to not it get caught on the chopping board "… at least my beard didn’t commit treason to the king." I don’t know if there’s any truth to that, but it’s quite funny.
I have heard of some sources putting it as high as 50- 72,000. That seems a little high. For the witchcraft trials, the northern rebellion and the elimination of rivals and dissenters I would give a figure of no more than 5,000. That is still a lot.
i think i saw in a film, (with the trial of Thomas more in it,) a part where Richard rich has just finished "fitting More up" and be turns to rich and says "what does it profit a man if he gains the world and loses his soul... ..but for Wales!?!" (i believe refering to a position he received..) A Man for All Seasons?? tickled me for some reason.. did you see Wolf Hall? what you think of anton lesser?? greetings from south wales.. 🙂
It’s a great scene David - I think Rich was Attorney General for Wales - no work, lots of profit! I made props for the TV production of Wolf Hall - the prayer book belonging to Thomas Cromwell’s wife was my work, as were all the quills. Such attention to detail in production.
@@allanbarton i wasn't expecting that as an answer! (wasn't expecting a reply 😀 thankyou, appreciated..) yes.. Wolf Hall, really really well done.. and the work looks top notch, great, thankyou for your work! and to the others involved.. waiting for the third book to be dramatised..? hopefully.. 🙂 pleased you got my reference to an earlier film and understood me..
6:15 Dang! Is that statue, maybe alabaster, really depicting Richard Rich? That is one fantastic artwork ...the face and beard sort of reminds me of the kings of England in York minster...
I must confess that I find the continual opening and “investigating” of Tudor-Period burial vaults and even graves (as at St Peter ad Vincula at The Tower during Victoria’s reign) for the purposes of either “archaeological study” or “restoration” distasteful, disrespectful, and--to be frank--disgusting. Queen Victoria’s restoration of the floor in front of the altar at St Peter ad Vincula is more understandable, as the floor was uneven, with some areas sinking and others rising, threatening to reveal the human remains interred below. However, the practice of opening burial vaults not even a full 500 yrs old--this I do say is both profoundly disrespectful and horrifying. I actually even feel the same way about the way the already-plundered tombs of the ancient Egyptian pharaohs in the Valley of the Kings as well as of the *mostly* undisturbed tomb of Tutankhamun have been treated (Tutankhamun’s tomb having been famously opened and “catalogued” by Howard Carter in 1922) is appalling. We should let the dead rest, and not *always* give in to the urges of our so-called “historical and scientific curiosity.”
What is interesting, is that medieval & Tudor people would not have been fazed by it. Exhumation and charnelling were normal practices in the past. The idea that the dead rest for perpetuity in a given burial place without being disturbed is a wholly modern and notion.
You've shown so many beautiful portraits and stunning statues, and I'm always drawn to the hands. Are their positions significant, holding some meaning that contemporary observers would immediately understand? I've seen some common positions, which led me to ask. Apologies if you've already addressed this. If not, I would be interested in a video!
Hi Allan! I have been an admirer of Sir Thomas More for many years. I was confident I had read or heard all the various bits about his life and death until today. You never fail to impress me, sir. Blessings to you and your family!
He was an extraordinary man. The photos of the pages from Utopia where of a first edition I had the privilege to handle when I worked in a rare books library. An exquisite book, produced by a fine mind. Blessings to you and yours too.
It fascinates me,that given the medieval attitude to death,burial & a belief in a resurrection,that the bones of the deceased were treated in such a casual manner.People seemed to move them & discard them without further thought if they were deemed in the way!How did they square the idea of resurrection at the last trump with the fact that the bones of their nearest & dearest could end up in charnel pits!?
That would make a good video - there is a well-worked theology of the bodily resurrection and how mortal remains were treated. People tend to think of people in the past as superstitious, but they were primarily pragmatists in these matters.
@@allanbarton but they believed in a physical resurrection at the last trump,did’nt they,hence the importance of the direction of a burial.This was a firm belief!so how could they reconcile that with their rather casual attitude to old bones?I do love your rabbit holes that yougo down,lots of food for thought!One thing’s for sure that a 21 C mindset makes it hard to fathom out the medieval mind!
They came up with a pragmatic theology of the body that required only the femurs and top of the cranium to be preserved. It is a nonsense, that is not found in the Early Church.
@@allanbarton how very odd,but as you say a pragmatic answer!I read somewhere someone commenting that judgement day was going to be a bit of a mess considering the ways that churchyards had been filled & bones moved about!
What a wonderful presentation, thank you. If one considers the historical scramble to possess relics in both the Eastern and Western Churches; the struggle between Florence and Ravenna for Dante’s remains, etc., one can easily recognise the need to protect the skull of a martyr from those eager to take it to Rome or elsewhere for veneration. It puts me in mind of the three ‘findings’ of the head of John the Forerunner ( the Baptist) in the Byzantine-Slavic Orthodox Church. One wonders where he will pop up next.
Transcript says st Johnson’s church Canterbury it’s actually st Dunstan church his Daughter used to live just down the road from the church the only part of her house still surviving Is the huge arched gate which is still impressive and her roper name lives on in a road name in the same area. Her fathers head is still cared for at the church. His daughter was a very well educated woman what she risked recovering her fathers head was her life a very heroic woman
8:27 I presume this to be a miniature, I remember a full painting of Elizabeth I to her father with her finger marking a place in the bible said to be illustrating her piety, after seeing this it looks to be more of a style of the time than anything unique to Elizabeth, sort of like the right hand tucked in under the front of the coat by so many prominent male figures from the past few or 4 centuries..
I would highly recommend that any serious fans of this channel to buy a couple of issues of The Antiquary, you won’t be disappointed! I’ll be signing up for the subscription next, they’re like extra little episodes in print and with gorgeous pictures and articles; my personal favourite was the biography of one of the many peculiar misers England produces - or the one about the hermit who made his clothes out of scraps on leather and lived in a hole in the ground. Wonderful reads! From one very happy customer
I gave my copy of the issue highlighting memento mori to a close friend who has an interest in old churches. Unfortunately his doctor had suggested one day earlier that he should have an "end of life plan". He was therefore not particularly enthusiastic about my gift. But he is still here ...
Not sure why I waited but I finally got around to subscribing to your magazine. Can't wait to get it. Thank you so much for your superb productions and research. I never liked history in school and have recently found a great love for it. Yours is one of my absolute favorite channels. Thank you for all you do.
Thanks for this very interesting bit of history, Allan. More certainly was a man of his times, and one to be emulated for his wisdom, if not for his loyalty to Rome. One of many bright souls lost to the axe under Henry VIII.
hello 🙂 at one point in the video it says when Henry learned or heard about Thomas's death..? does this imply he was executed without the king's knowledge? or something else..?
I love the character of Sir Thomas More ever since we studied Bolt's Play, "A Man for All Seasons," at High School. So long ago. I drew many a reference to the power of the State (The Crown) and Sir Thomas More during the progressive events of the political management of Co*id. Coersion, compliance and repay, or lose your head. Not much choice and certainly not for cowards. Much like occupants of the Lancaster night-bombers over the dams in Germany in WW ll. who knew that to fly these big bombers was skirting with sure death. Were these young men coerced? Looking at what is happening presently to the world they died for, I shudder to think their sacrifice was in vain.
Its amazing how literally people take the musings of Utopia-that such a place is actually possible. Also Ive read that sir thomas belonged to opus dei, a radical faction of catholicism which believed in corporal self punishment in atonement for one’s sins. But a favorite saying of mine attributed to him is “everyone to the devil his own way.”
Opus Dei was only founded in 1928 It is an organization of Catholic clergy and lay persons who seek to achieve holiness through their ordinary chosen professions. It does NOT promote corporal self-punishment, that idea is strictly from the fertile imagination of Dan Brown.
@@alhilford2345 an Opus Dei style if you will- i refer not to Dan brown but a biography of more written by richard Marius (pub. 1985) which states that “mores own father confessor in his later years, priest john bouge, wrote shortly after mores execution that more wore his “hard and rough shirt of hair almost a year before dame alice (his wife) knew about it… even as a youth …wore a hair shirt and slept on the ground or on bare boards with perhaps a log of wood as his pillow.” He seems to imply that more continued this arduous practice into adulthood.””
Another fascinating documentary . Could never understand why More is so venerated when he robustly opposed Tyndale's attempts to publish the Bible in English . He may have been loyal to Roman Catholicism but was he loyal to Christianity ?
You presented this very well. I am a very great devotee of St. Thomas More. I can't even imagine the courage that he had. I'm sure that I would fall short if I were ever presented with such a dilemma. He not only lost his life but the fortunes of his beloved family as well.
Same here. I have his picture in my living room. He’s the patron saint of lawyers.
You speak of courage. Courage and holiness is what Thomas More wrote about from the tower of London as he witnessed the executions of the Carthusian Monks of Charter House London. Those attributtes he applied to them. John Fisher was Thomas More’s equal in intellect. He had been Chancellor of Cambridge , and had survived a poisoning attempt. He did not garner the prestige of Thomas. Therefore he preceded him in death by a few days. He was succeeded in office by the very same man who orchestrated his death, Thomas Cromwell.
@@rosezingleman5007both Tertulian and St. Augustine were lawyers, and both were from Roman North Africa. They would enhance the theme in a collection.
He was also a butcher.
Excellent !!!!😊
I was in Canterbury not too long ago and went into St. Dunstan's Church and the Roper Chapel. There he was! (well part of him) Amazing!
My first overseas trip was to Europe in 1989. I am Australian and I went overseas for 6 months. I love English history, and particularly the Tudors. So I was so excited to see all these places I had read about.
On my first weekend in Britain, a friend and I went to Canterbury. St Dunstans was just opposite the B and B in which we stayed. It also one of the very sights I saw In Britain.
I hadn’t had much luck with seeing churches in the first week or so. I tried to visit Westminster Abbey, in part to see the tombs of Elizabeth I and Mary QOS, the day after I arrived. But it was closed for an event that the Queen Mum was attending. We then went to Canterbury. Next morning we were planning on going to the Cathedral. But who should we see being driven in the street to the Cathedral- the Queen Mum. So Canterbury Cathedral was closed that morning as well.
So I was very excited when I decided to look in the church opposite the B and B to find the Tudor connection.
I;m surprised the Roman Catholic Church has not asked for this head as after all, Sir Thomas More was declared as Martyr Saint.
Very interesting! IF this is the real skull of Sir TM that speaks volumes of his character, and of his family, that they would take so care of his remains. He sure had the moral victory.
Thank you, Allan, for the fascinating installment on St Thomas More. I have long been one of his admirers and yet you have turned up other facets of his life I did not know. Well done.
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching!
So many post-mortem heads bouncing around back in the days of yore. And exploding corpses. 🤯
😂
It's Chop! Chop!! Galore!!!😋🤣🤣🤣
Fascinating and so well-researched. I always come back to your channel :)
Thank you.
Allan, you are correct that More was a polymath and polyglot. Utopia in Greek means no place. One can readily make inferences to St. Augustine’s “City of God.”
Can’t wait 😊
Everytime I see that Holbein picture I see the actor Sir Lawrence Olivier (and probably now you will too lol).
an easy end compared to what More did to others
He is my Baptismal Saint, I am sure Richard Rich was a liar. He remained silent in the Tower so long, to speak his mind to Rich
yet another fabulous and fascinating tale from Allan Barton. I just love your content! And your mellifluous tones. :) It's so amazing that she managed to rescue his head at all. Kind of reminds me of Game of Thrones' Ned, King of the North. I feel quite sad that they did in More. He was a beautiful man. And his ethics were so strong. What a shame!
He was an exceptional person. Glad you enjoyed the video, thanks for watching!
That's why he's a Saint 🥰
Dreadful to think the fate that befell him, leading up to and after his death. All those years of service really meant nothing.
I’ve had a few bosses like that, though thankfully sans beheading!
Hope you’re well Father Allan
Me too!!!! Ha, ha. I'm good thanks Jason, how are you?
@@allanbarton I'm well thank you. Tired as per, but aren't we all? Haha
He is just lucky that he wasn’t burned alive as he had done to a few others…. A tad worse than having your head lopped off!
👩🏻💻Very, very interesting. I adore and revere Sir Thomas Moore. I was about 12 years old when I first saw the movie, "A Man for All Seasons," in our local show house. Even then I knew this man was honorable and true to his wife and family and most of all, true his God, his beliefs; that really impressed me. Growing up in the 60's really tried the souls of men, I had to ferret out my thoughts and feelings in such a turbulent time, just like it is today, a turbulent and topsy turvy world. Sir Thomas Moore gave me the courage to live up to my own physical and spiritual ideals. Now I am off to watch the movie.🙋♀️🇺🇲🇬🇧🇺🇦
St. Thomas Moore pray for us
Excellent use of Holbein's portrait of More. I'm one of the fortunate ones to have admired on many occasions this nearly photographic painting held at The Frick Collection in New York City. Gaze upon More's mantle collar and it's easy to imagine running one's hand through the soft and luxuriant texture of the fur. Another superlative video.
Frick was evil as Thomas Cromwell.
Lady Margaret More Roper is my 15th great-grandmother. Sir Thomas More is my 16th great-grandfather. 🩷
Wow, so you have an actual, canonized Saint in your ancestry. Cool!!!!!
@@splashenfulincredibly cool. And a martyr at that
I think it is a good example of Henry’s hypocrisy and blame shifting to have blamed Anne Boleyn for More’s death. He could have saved More if he wanted.
I don't have a deal of sympathy for her I'm afraid when she press-ganged her uncle, father and brother to sit in judgement on More. She was certainly pressing for his death as his denial of the marriage was a denial of her status.
The king's good servant but Christ's first. Interesting to note that King Henry VIII blamed Anne Boleyn for his death in regard to her stating that "This is long of you, the honestest man of my kingdom is dead." Let's remember the lessons of history... honesty and integrity must prevail.
Most honest. Not honestest.
What a pleasure it is to enjoy your program, sir. Thank you for your no nonsense approach.
Great rabbit hole! Great videos thank you.
perhaps modern UK politicians would try a little harder if there were more serious personal consequences for their actions
They might think twice about putting themselves forward as an MP without being either honest or fully committed to pull their weight. And no second fiddling jobs.
Thomas’ father must have been smack dab in the middle of the Wars of the Roses...He must have had the chance to have seen Henry VI & Margaret, Richard Duke of York, Richard Neville, Somerset, The Brothers York....I wonder what side he fell on...
I've watched several docus on this gruesome bit of history - yours has been the best.
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it! 😊
It’s ironic that Margaret More Roper could’ve easily translated the Vulgate Bible into English, but nobody was around to task her with it after Henry and Elizabeth started sentencing Catholics to death.
I’m always amazed at the extreme dislike history has had towards Richard III, yet Henry VIII was the most vile man I’ve ever heard of, a cruel true narcissist who had no qualms about falsely accusing & disposing of anyone who stood in his way or even just dared to disagree with him.
One has to wonder what might have been if he had served under any other king than the psychopathic Henry VIII ?
I believe there’s an anecdote when More is about to be executed he ask the executioner a small pause so he can fix his beard so as to not it get caught on the chopping board "… at least my beard didn’t commit treason to the king."
I don’t know if there’s any truth to that, but it’s quite funny.
Facinating
What's not to love about a skull that keeps moving around long after the original owner's demise. Rest in Peace Sir Thomas More.
Goethe's head gathered little moss as well.
Such interesting but terrible history. Do you know how many people fell victim to Henry 8th? What a tyrant he was !
I have heard of some sources putting it as high as 50- 72,000. That seems a little high. For the witchcraft trials, the northern rebellion and the elimination of rivals and dissenters I would give a figure of no more than 5,000. That is still a lot.
Is there no possibility of a DNA investigation?
I would think it unlikely now as any bone would be degraded.
Beautifully put together, and fascinating. Thank you
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching.
Many thanks!
i think i saw in a film, (with the trial of Thomas more in it,) a part where Richard rich has just finished "fitting More up" and be turns to rich and says
"what does it profit a man if he gains the world and loses his soul...
..but for Wales!?!" (i believe refering to a position he received..)
A Man for All Seasons??
tickled me for some reason..
did you see Wolf Hall?
what you think of anton lesser??
greetings from south wales.. 🙂
It’s a great scene David - I think Rich was Attorney General for Wales - no work, lots of profit! I made props for the TV production of Wolf Hall - the prayer book belonging to Thomas Cromwell’s wife was my work, as were all the quills. Such attention to detail in production.
@@allanbarton i wasn't expecting that as an answer!
(wasn't expecting a reply 😀 thankyou, appreciated..)
yes.. Wolf Hall, really really well done..
and the work looks top notch, great, thankyou for your work!
and to the others involved..
waiting for the third book to be dramatised..? hopefully.. 🙂
pleased you got my reference to an earlier film and understood me..
6:15 Dang! Is that statue, maybe alabaster, really depicting Richard Rich? That is one fantastic artwork ...the face and beard sort of reminds me of the kings of England in York minster...
I only really knew of More as the author of Utopia, I didnt know he was a catholic saint or whatever.
So if he's a saint what can you pray to him for
Thank you, Allan. The heads on those spikes was just so wicked and barbarian to those poor souls and their grieving families. Scary times indeed.
Fascinating story. Just found your channel and am learning so much
"Malicious silence" .... one couldn't make it up! Let's just hope, it won't come into fashion again.
It is chilling isn't it? Well, I could see this happening again.
I was once accused of dumb insolence. I just ignored them.
HMMMMM !!! EXCELLENT FROM, U.K. (2024).
Fantastic! First I've heard of this, appreciate it very much. Love this
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching.
Being Henry's friend was kind of risky. 😮
Great story Allan. Thank uou
I must confess that I find the continual opening and “investigating” of Tudor-Period burial vaults and even graves (as at St Peter ad Vincula at The Tower during Victoria’s reign) for the purposes of either “archaeological study” or “restoration” distasteful, disrespectful, and--to be frank--disgusting. Queen Victoria’s restoration of the floor in front of the altar at St Peter ad Vincula is more understandable, as the floor was uneven, with some areas sinking and others rising, threatening to reveal the human remains interred below. However, the practice of opening burial vaults not even a full 500 yrs old--this I do say is both profoundly disrespectful and horrifying. I actually even feel the same way about the way the already-plundered tombs of the ancient Egyptian pharaohs in the Valley of the Kings as well as of the *mostly* undisturbed tomb of Tutankhamun have been treated (Tutankhamun’s tomb having been famously opened and “catalogued” by Howard Carter in 1922) is appalling. We should let the dead rest, and not *always* give in to the urges of our so-called “historical and scientific curiosity.”
What is interesting, is that medieval & Tudor people would not have been fazed by it. Exhumation and charnelling were normal practices in the past. The idea that the dead rest for perpetuity in a given burial place without being disturbed is a wholly modern and notion.
You've shown so many beautiful portraits and stunning statues, and I'm always drawn to the hands. Are their positions significant, holding some meaning that contemporary observers would immediately understand? I've seen some common positions, which led me to ask. Apologies if you've already addressed this. If not, I would be interested in a video!
st. thomas more😥⛪🪦
Fascinating, Allan and well sleuthed. I thoroughly enjoyed your video, thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it Steve, thanks for watching! I hope you are well.
Hi Allan! I have been an admirer of Sir Thomas More for many years. I was confident I had read or heard all the various bits about his life and death until today. You never fail to impress me, sir. Blessings to you and your family!
He was an extraordinary man. The photos of the pages from Utopia where of a first edition I had the privilege to handle when I worked in a rare books library. An exquisite book, produced by a fine mind. Blessings to you and yours too.
Hi do you ship to Germany??? Best wishes
Yes we do! Select the international subscription option on our website 😊.
It fascinates me,that given the medieval attitude to death,burial & a belief in a resurrection,that the bones of the deceased were treated in such a casual manner.People seemed to move them & discard them without further thought if they were deemed in the way!How did they square the idea of resurrection at the last trump with the fact that the bones of their nearest & dearest could end up in charnel pits!?
That would make a good video - there is a well-worked theology of the bodily resurrection and how mortal remains were treated. People tend to think of people in the past as superstitious, but they were primarily pragmatists in these matters.
@@allanbarton but they believed in a physical resurrection at the last trump,did’nt they,hence the importance of the direction of a burial.This was a firm belief!so how could they reconcile that with their rather casual attitude to old bones?I do love your rabbit holes that yougo down,lots of food for thought!One thing’s for sure that a 21 C mindset makes it hard to fathom out the medieval mind!
They came up with a pragmatic theology of the body that required only the femurs and top of the cranium to be preserved. It is a nonsense, that is not found in the Early Church.
@@allanbarton how very odd,but as you say a pragmatic answer!I read somewhere someone commenting that judgement day was going to be a bit of a mess considering the ways that churchyards had been filled & bones moved about!
@@allanbarton Whether or not out bones crumble to dust and are scattered far and wide - we will rise again.
What a wonderful presentation, thank you. If one considers the historical scramble to possess relics in both the Eastern and Western Churches; the struggle between Florence and Ravenna for Dante’s remains, etc., one can easily recognise the need to protect the skull of a martyr from those eager to take it to Rome or elsewhere for veneration. It puts me in mind of the three ‘findings’ of the head of John the Forerunner ( the Baptist) in the Byzantine-Slavic Orthodox Church. One wonders where he will pop up next.
What is the title of the intro music?
A poligot! Wow Dr.Barton never heard this word before but it certainly makes the point!
haha!
yes i'm with you..
but i just looked it up and it's to do with speaking multiple languages
polyglot..
he spoke several languages.. 🙂 x
Transcript says st Johnson’s church Canterbury it’s actually st Dunstan church his Daughter used to live just down the road from the church the only part of her house still surviving Is the huge arched gate which is still impressive and her roper name lives on in a road name in the same area. Her fathers head is still cared for at the church. His daughter was a very well educated woman what she risked recovering her fathers head was her life a very heroic woman
The transcript is auto generated and wrong, I actually talk about St Dunstan's church. I wonder who UA-cam thinks St Johnson is!!!!
Excellent video. Thank you for posting.
Absolutely brilliant! Fascinating :) also Cheyne Walk ="chainey walk"
8:27 I presume this to be a miniature, I remember a full painting of Elizabeth I to her father with her finger marking a place in the bible said to be illustrating her piety, after seeing this it looks to be more of a style of the time than anything unique to Elizabeth, sort of like the right hand tucked in under the front of the coat by so many prominent male figures from the past few or 4 centuries..
Too bad we don't still have this going on today, only for those we pay to be our politicians. It would be a totally different world.
What a lovely and informative video. Thank you for posting it.😊
Very interesting. Heads everywhere Simon of Sudburys head is in the church up the road from me. Have seen it a few times.
Now his head iis particularly grisly looking of I remember correctly.
@@allanbarton very. Skin still there in parts with the look of a right bruiser!
Not like modern bishops. Though my Bishop can be straight talking!
I would highly recommend that any serious fans of this channel to buy a couple of issues of The Antiquary, you won’t be disappointed! I’ll be signing up for the subscription next, they’re like extra little episodes in print and with gorgeous pictures and articles; my personal favourite was the biography of one of the many peculiar misers England produces - or the one about the hermit who made his clothes out of scraps on leather and lived in a hole in the ground. Wonderful reads!
From one very happy customer
I have done this and can attest to their quality.
@@philiproseel3506 here here!
I gave my copy of the issue highlighting memento mori to a close friend who has an interest in old churches. Unfortunately his doctor had suggested one day earlier that he should have an "end of life plan". He was therefore not particularly enthusiastic about my gift. But he is still here ...
Thank you very much! Glad you're enjoying the Antiquary!
@@TT-zd6nr that message is of even more import to you friend right now than anyone else! Aha but yeah I can see that not going down too swimmingly
Very interesting thank you
Glad you enjoyed it
I think it has to be his head. A little DNA testing on the bone remnants might shed some light. Is that possible?
Fascinating,Would england have been papists if
Thanks!
Glad you appreciated it, thanks for your support!
Thank you for another little -known yet fascinating story. Your content is always original and extremely well presented. Excellent channel
Thank you very much! Glad you enjoyed it 😊
Not sure why I waited but I finally got around to subscribing to your magazine. Can't wait to get it. Thank you so much for your superb productions and research. I never liked history in school and have recently found a great love for it. Yours is one of my absolute favorite channels. Thank you for all you do.
Thanks very much, I hope you enjoy the magazine too!
Thanks for this very interesting bit of history, Allan. More certainly was a man of his times, and one to be emulated for his wisdom, if not for his loyalty to Rome. One of many bright souls lost to the axe under Henry VIII.
Indeed, sticking one's head above the parapet seems to have been fatal in those days! Glad you enjoyed the video .
hello 🙂
at one point in the video it says when Henry learned or heard about Thomas's death..?
does this imply he was executed without the king's knowledge?
or something else..?
When you appear at the end your face is over his upon the spike on my phone anyway; that gave me a chuckle.
I might have done that intentionally, glad you spotted it and it made you laugh.
Wow, fascinating stuff. South africa 🇿🇦
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching!
Is your Patreon active? Looks kinda empty.
I am just about to get it and membership here on UA-cam going properly - I have a load of bonus content that will be for members and patrons.
@@allanbarton Sounds excellent! Also, great video, love it how you piece the story together. Too bad you can't visit the vault and poke around 😅
The 'Woke' of the day got him.
Great work again! Thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching!
@@allanbarton
I don't want to miss a single one 🙂
I love the character of Sir Thomas More ever since we studied Bolt's Play, "A Man for All Seasons," at High School. So long ago. I drew many a reference to the power of the State (The Crown) and Sir Thomas More during the progressive events of the political management of Co*id. Coersion, compliance and repay, or lose your head. Not much choice and certainly not for cowards. Much like occupants of the Lancaster night-bombers over the dams in Germany in WW ll. who knew that to fly these big bombers was skirting with sure death. Were these young men coerced? Looking at what is happening presently to the world they died for, I shudder to think their sacrifice was in vain.
Its amazing how literally people take the musings of Utopia-that such a place is actually possible. Also Ive read that sir thomas belonged to opus dei, a radical faction of catholicism which believed in corporal self punishment in atonement for one’s sins. But a favorite saying of mine attributed to him is “everyone to the devil his own way.”
Opus Dei was only founded in 1928
It is an organization of Catholic clergy and lay persons who seek to achieve holiness through their ordinary chosen professions.
It does NOT promote corporal self-punishment, that idea is strictly from the fertile imagination of Dan Brown.
@@alhilford2345 an Opus Dei style if you will- i refer not to Dan brown but a biography of more written by richard Marius (pub. 1985) which states that “mores own father confessor in his later years, priest john bouge, wrote shortly after mores execution that more wore his “hard and rough shirt of hair almost a year before dame alice (his wife) knew about it… even as a youth …wore a hair shirt and slept on the ground or on bare boards with perhaps a log of wood as his pillow.” He seems to imply that more continued this arduous practice into adulthood.””
Another fascinating documentary . Could never understand why More is so venerated when he robustly opposed Tyndale's attempts to publish the Bible in English . He may have been loyal to Roman Catholicism but was he loyal to Christianity ?